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Old 04-23-2013, 11:54 AM   #211
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I feel I have a hard time weighing myself. It makes and breaks my day. I justify bingeing when I am losing and I binge when I am not losing because It doesn't work. So I decided now to not weigh. At the same time I am so scared to get even bigger and more unhealthy that checking my calories at night calms me down and ensures me that I am not eating too much and that I should be able to trust myself. At the same time I know this isn't what IE is about.
Xena - I think it's a good idea not to weigh if it makes and breaks your day, as you stated. I think that's true for many people trying to lose weight. Remember that it's a number that can fluctuate wildly. Perhaps weigh yourself at very long intervals - say, once a month? I don't weigh anymore, although I did weigh yesterday for a specific purpose. There was no real surprise there, as I had a pretty good idea of what I weighed based on how my clothes feel. But I won't weigh again unless I have a specific need to do so.

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I guess I am wondering what - as a person that was always overweight, overate, restricted and binged - I should do...i am so confused right now.
You might benefit from reading a book that's available for free online. Just google "overfed head pdf" (without the quotes) and it should be the first link that comes up. It's written by a man who also battled his weight and finally decided to start eating intuitively. He lost over 100 lbs when he stopped dieting. It's a very straightforward read, not any real psychological content.

If you're looking for more in-depth reading about the subject, you might like "Intuitive Eating: A Revolutionary Program That Works" by Tribole & Resch. You can google that as well. I got it from my library and frankly I found it tedious, as I don't like reading about the psychology of overeating. Others have found it useful, however. You could read the reviews online and see what you think.

Best wishes to you.
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Old 04-23-2013, 02:09 PM   #212
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Thank u so much. I will check that out. Sounds exactly like what I am looking for. I think I read this other book if I remember correctly. What I don't like about a lot of these books are exercise like hunger and fullness scales. It is hard enough for me to know If I am hungry or not, picking a certain degree of hunger makes me obsess. I want to get it right and feel guilty if I eat a little more.

I personally feel that I need to think less about food not more. It is hard enough to pick what and when to eat, but these exercises seem like rules to me that decide if I fail or succeed and if I am doing it right or cheat.
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Old 04-23-2013, 02:59 PM   #213
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Thank u so much. I will check that out. Sounds exactly like what I am looking for. I think I read this other book if I remember correctly. What I don't like about a lot of these books are exercise like hunger and fullness scales. It is hard enough for me to know If I am hungry or not, picking a certain degree of hunger makes me obsess. I want to get it right and feel guilty if I eat a little more.

I personally feel that I need to think less about food not more. It is hard enough to pick what and when to eat, but these exercises seem like rules to me that decide if I fail or succeed and if I am doing it right or cheat.
Xena, I know exactly what you're saying because I feel the very same way! I've written that several times right here on 3FC. The important thing is to take from each source what you think will work for you.

Many times I've said I will not try to judge my hunger by a number on a scale. And some days I eat until I am VERY full; others just to satiety. It's different day to day and meal to meal.

For me, the most helpful part of IE is giving my undivided attention to what I eat and not engage in distracted eating. Whenever I do that I always end up eating less. Mindless eating has always been my undoing.

But for others it might be something else.

The Overfed Head does have a hunger scale in there but I find it impossible to understand. I have to go by what my body tells me. As you do this you get better and better at it. You'll also get better at dealing with hunger, as you'll know that when you do eat, you can eat as much as you need. For example, it's 2:00 pm where I am and I have not yet eaten. Am I hungry? Yes, I am. But I can't decide what I want to eat! Nothing sounds particularly appealing right now. And if I wait another hour or so I probably won't be hungry any more. I understand my own body's pattern and I go with it. The more I practice IE, the better I get. I think less and less about food each day.

Be sure to go back and read bingefree2013's posts in this thread if you haven't already. They are very helpful.
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Old 04-23-2013, 06:59 PM   #214
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Also about what you said on the other thread that you are not bingeing but are eating about the same binge amount just spread out over the day. It is interesting to me because I am not really finding that. I am definitely overeating junk foods (although getting less and less), but the overall amount I am pretty sure is much less because my binges were so massive. I am not noticing that I am piling on the pounds or anything, just feeling bloated due to the higher level of carbs and salt I am ingesting from the new foods I am incorporating. I do believe still processed foods are addictive, but I think the effects were amplified for me due to restricting them completely. It seems weird with junk foods: too much makes you want more, and too little makes you want more. It's no wonder noone can really figure out this weight/food thing. There are so many pieces to the puzzle.
I wonder if the reason i am still overeating so much (roughly 4000 calories per day) is that i didn't REALLY introduce any "forbidden" foods. The reason for that is, i never had any "forbidden" foods--i CAN eat anything if i really want it--but at the same time, when i go grocery shopping, i just buy certain foods that i have become accustomed to eating. I don't buy ice cream, or chocolate, or carrot cake, even though (or maybe because) i'd probably eat them if i had them in the house. Ice cream isn't a "forbidden" food, but i just don't crave it. But maybe, deep down, i actually DO want some???? Kinda doubtful...but i keep wondering why all the stuff about intuitive eating that i've been reading keep stressing the importance of reintroducing all your "forbidden" foods.
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Old 04-23-2013, 07:52 PM   #215
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I think i'm jumping all-in. Tomorrow morning will be the first time since i was probably 12 years old that i don't get on the scale and weigh myself. I'm not counting calories anymore. Not using the food scale. (It will be impossible to not estimate the calories in my head....and i've gotten VERY good at eyeballing portions...so i will still know how many calories i've eaten). I figure...this morning, i weighed the most i've weighed in about 8 years...so things could hardly get WORSE (knock on wood...things will definitely get worse if i wake up tomorrow morning and NONE of my clothes fit me). That's why i'm ready to just give up everything and just do the "intuitive" thing.
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Old 04-23-2013, 10:10 PM   #216
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You might benefit from reading a book that's available for free online. Just google "overfed head pdf" (without the quotes) and it should be the first link that comes up. It's written by a man who also battled his weight and finally decided to start eating intuitively. He lost over 100 lbs when he stopped dieting. It's a very straightforward read, not any real psychological content.
I just skimmed through the pdf of the book and agree that it's a good read, and surprisingly well written for a self-published book. My one beef with intuitive eating is the prescription to stop eating when you're full. Fullness has a strong subjective component, it seems to me. It's not just about the body's satiety signals, but about how we interpret them.

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Old 04-23-2013, 10:20 PM   #217
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Thank u so much. I will check that out. Sounds exactly like what I am looking for. I think I read this other book if I remember correctly. What I don't like about a lot of these books are exercise like hunger and fullness scales. It is hard enough for me to know If I am hungry or not, picking a certain degree of hunger makes me obsess. I want to get it right and feel guilty if I eat a little more.

I personally feel that I need to think less about food not more. It is hard enough to pick what and when to eat, but these exercises seem like rules to me that decide if I fail or succeed and if I am doing it right or cheat.
I think southernmavin said alot of what I would say. I also am not getting into the hunger scale thing becuase it would have turned me away. It is just too much like dieting for me and obsessing like what you said. One thing is for sure, I am definitely not thinking or obsessing about food so much now. whether or not it is a weight loss wonder is another question. Sounds like you are enjoying feeling a little free from the food obsession so that is a good thing. Maybe you just need to try it out and see how it goes. Something with this though, I think there is definitely a transition that will liekly scare some people away. I think in the beginning after getting rid of the ball and chain, there does seem to be some rebound eating. I got pretty freaked out with this and almost gave up. I felt really uncomfortable eating like 3 donuts the first couple times I tried eating them. It has really calmed down now alot like what bingefree2013 said it would. I still find these kinds of foods addictive and will always want to consume more donuts than maybe apples, but it is not as extreme as I thought it was.

Also about the weighing thing, If what the scale says makes or breaks your day then maybe it's best to abstain. For one year I weighed myself everyday and I saw how my weight fluctuates by a few pounds from day to day and has even fluctuated as much as 7 pounds in one day during my TOM. So after seeing this the number on the scale never meant a whole lot to me. I was more weighing myself because I wanted to keep a record and I was obsessed with the data (I have OCD). I always think it's funny when people obsess over a .5 weight gain on the scale or even a few pounds. I know it just doesn't really mean much these fluctuations. Also, anytime I eat something with more salt my weight will go up like 4 pounds the next day and then be gone again the day after. I really think the way clothing fits is a better measure and doesn't make a person obsess over a specific number. Oh and I forgot, anytime I exercise with weights my weight goes up the next day simply from inflamation. Scale weight gets people upset for nothing alot of the times.
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Old 04-23-2013, 10:21 PM   #218
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I just skimmed through the pdf of the book and agree that it's a good read, and surprisingly well written for a self-published book. My one beef with intuitive eating is the prescription to stop eating when you're full. Fullness has a strong subjective component, it seems to me. It's not just about the body's satiety signals, but about how we interpret them.

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totally agree with you on this. I pretty much eat until I'm as full as I want to be at the time.
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Old 04-23-2013, 10:27 PM   #219
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Reading all the posts with interest.

I have to say that based on my own experience, I am 100% certain now that (a) not restricting and (b) being at a weight your body is comfortable at are the keys to not having an eating disorder.

However, I would be cautious about letting go completely with intuitive eating. IMO, we still need to monitor that we don't overeat. For me, the way I monitor it is to use the hunger/fullness scale as I find it useful to record and learn exactly what my body is telling me.
great to hear magical that this has helped with an eating disorder. That is my main priority. If at the end I have a weight problem I will try to strategize then. I think there are ways to eat intuitively and promote weight loss without actually having to apply rules. One way is by setting yourself up in a healthy environment like making healthier options (that you like) more available and in your house and less healthy foods something you have to actually put some effort in to get at. For example, If I'm at home and want something sweet and have both ice cream and fruit in the house, I will go for the ice cream probably every time over the fruit. If I only have fruit I will probably just have that and be happy without denying myself anything. And if I have a very specific craving for ice cream I can go out to a restaurant or parlour and get what I need to satisfy that craving. By keeping ice cream further away and not right in my face, I will likely eat it alot less. Also, one can look for things like activities they enjoy. I really really enjoy taking nature photographs and I have a young and very crazy dog that needs alot of exercise. I go on 2 hour walks with her rergularly where I get lots of exercise and have fun taking pictures at the same time.

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Old 04-23-2013, 11:16 PM   #220
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I wonder if the reason i am still overeating so much (roughly 4000 calories per day) is that i didn't REALLY introduce any "forbidden" foods. The reason for that is, i never had any "forbidden" foods--i CAN eat anything if i really want it--but at the same time, when i go grocery shopping, i just buy certain foods that i have become accustomed to eating. I don't buy ice cream, or chocolate, or carrot cake, even though (or maybe because) i'd probably eat them if i had them in the house. Ice cream isn't a "forbidden" food, but i just don't crave it. But maybe, deep down, i actually DO want some???? Kinda doubtful...but i keep wondering why all the stuff about intuitive eating that i've been reading keep stressing the importance of reintroducing all your "forbidden" foods.
Surfergirl - i don't think there is anything wrong with what you are doing. I definitely have forbidden foods which can be further divided into "fear foods" and "trigger foods". Fear foods is a concept used alot when dealing with anorexia and are foods that you are literally afraid of and believe they will harm you in some way (health or weight). These are not foods that trigger bingeing necessarily. For me my fear foods are bread(any flour), pasta, white rice, canned foods, and the list goes on and on. I don't really ever crave these foods but I don't like how I label them as "bad" and it does affect my life when I go somewhere like to someones house where they are serving these things and I can't really say no. The guilt of eating them often causes me to binge afterwards. I am buying some of these things now and trying to incorporate them to get rid of that fear. Like I have brought some sandwhiches and pasta dishes etc. to work for my lunch. I have been eating these things pretty much in the company of others like at work where I have time to kind of calm down afterwards and realize it's no big deal. It's good for me to have people around and be in the middle of a work day so I can't really fly off the handle.

Trigger foods for me are things that happen spontaneously like walking into the lunch room and seeing a box of donuts or being at someones house when they bring out the bowl of chips. I normally will say something like "oh no thanks" or "I don't really feel like that" when inside I am about to burst with stress and anxiety from not allowing myself to have them. Specific foods don't trigger me to binge unless I ACTUALLY see them. I don't sit at home and think of a donut and decide to binge. Any triggers for me to binge outside of actually seeing food in front of my face are things like stress and loneliness where there is no particular food in mind. I will just snap due to emotion and head for the closest store and grab anything, doesn't even matter what as long as it's high in sugar. I don't really see a need to keep trigger foods in my house. I am just accepting eating them when I actually see them and feel the anxiety wellling up. Also, if I am at home and decide I need some ice cream, I think it's better to actually go out and get it somewhere else. Sometimes people just want something sweet and an apple would do just fine if that's all they see. If they see ice cream in there house everyday it seems like it would just put the idea in your head when it might not be otherwise. To me these are strategies that can maybe point someone in the direction of weight loss while doing intuitive eating. You're not really having to impose any rules, you are just setting up your surroundings to promote better choices.

But honestly, if you never had any forbidden food then I don't see any need to wave crappy food choices infront of your face. Just one example, many people that work in fast food restaurants gain weight simply because they are surrounded by high fat/calorie foods constantly so of course that's what they grab when they get hungry. What do you think about what I'm saying? I felt really confused about this too and wondered if I should be stocking my house full of chips and cake. After alot of thinking I decided it would be stupid to do that. unless I wanted to promote eating chips and cake everyday which I do not want to promote.

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Old 04-23-2013, 11:32 PM   #221
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I think i'm jumping all-in. Tomorrow morning will be the first time since i was probably 12 years old that i don't get on the scale and weigh myself. I'm not counting calories anymore. Not using the food scale. (It will be impossible to not estimate the calories in my head....and i've gotten VERY good at eyeballing portions...so i will still know how many calories i've eaten). I figure...this morning, i weighed the most i've weighed in about 8 years...so things could hardly get WORSE (knock on wood...things will definitely get worse if i wake up tomorrow morning and NONE of my clothes fit me). That's why i'm ready to just give up everything and just do the "intuitive" thing.
well good luck to you with this. I hope it goes well. If you decide after awhile that you preferred weighing yourself then that will be your choice. I've heard arguments for and against and I think it's an individual thing. I think also that why not try it if you are now at your highest weight. It kind of says that your dieting efforts are being counteracted and sabaged with bingeing. If your bingeing improves maybe at some point you can apply some rules or strategies like what magical suggested. I would also suggest keeping up whatever exercise you like to do only because it has helped me a great deal. For me it is a big stress reliever and makes me feel a little less anxious flying by the seat of my pants without any rules. I think the endorphins are so wonderful and getting the blood flowing I think makes the human body function better which might make intuitive eating go better as well. I hope I don't sound preachy. Like I said before I often say too much.
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Old 04-23-2013, 11:51 PM   #222
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I was more weighing myself because I wanted to keep a record and I was obsessed with the data (I have OCD).
Speaking of OCD... I myself am quite OCD about remnants. I find it very difficult to leave, say, a half a cinnamon roll wrapped up in the fridge. I feel like I have to either eat it or throw it away. One spoonful of Nutella left in the jar? Same deal, I can't just let it sit there. Anything less than a full portion leaves me feeling like I have to DO something about it. Nuts, eh? I've been this way ever since I can remember, so it's a hard groove to erase.

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Old 04-24-2013, 12:24 AM   #223
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Thanks for the tips, Veggiedaze. I'm still experimenting with what's best for me. I don't want to go too far with this in case it triggers my binge/purge cycle again.

I agree, I do need to get rid of junk in my house although what I have noticed is that after the first few weeks / months (?) of not restricting is that I'm not craving junk food as much as I was when I was "dieting". So, I can actually have chocolates, cakes, desserts around the house and they will be in my kitchen/fridge for AGES with me having no interest in eating any of the junk. F.R.E.E.D.O.M.

WRT exercise, totally agree about enjoying your activities. I'm not even trying anything unnatural to me anymore. I hated going to the gym but yet, felt compelled to do so. I stopped that a year back and instead, hung around with my kids, going for long treks (climbing up/down bush land and getting lost, lol) and enjoying being active without the guilt. Again, freedom.

I'm considering re-starting some exercise videos but again, proceeding very cautiously as I don't want to trigger the disorder again.
It's really wonderful to have you join this discussion magical. It gives hope to some people like me in the midst of an eating disorder while also giving a testiment that although intuitive eating has helped your disorder, it has not necessarily been the be all end all in regards to weight. Alot of people with eating disorders are afraid to try this approach because they are afraid of gaining weight. Maybe you can give some background on yourself like if you were ever a normal eater/weight, eating habits etc. and why you decided to go the intuitive eating route even though it didn't solve your weight problems. This last post of yours has been really insightful as you say that now you don't even want the "junk foods" and can have them in your house for ages. What was the transition like for you going from dieting/disordered to intuitive eating. Why do you think your weight is higher now than what you would like.

Also, my sister who is a recovered severe bulimic, recovered through intuitive eating principles. After an initital weight gain she did manage to lose weight and became quite thin with intuitive eating. She does seem to use strategies though to steer her towards healthier eating. She had a baby though and felt tempted to actively get the weight off. However, these thoughts of dieting and exercise with the sole purpose of losing weight started to give her thoughts of bingeing and purging again so she decided it was better just to lay off and hope the weight would come off on it's own. It did come off but really really slowly. Slower than alot off people would be happy with. She felt it was a much safer bet to not persue losing weight directly and risk becoming bulimic again. She could really see it happening and it scared her straight.

Also I totally hear you on the gym thing. I hated the gym. I only became consistent with exercise once I started doing things I like. Going to the gym feels like punishment to me. There is no activity I love so much now like walking for hours with my dog and taking nature pictures. My sister also does things like stroller walks with other mothers to socialize. She hates gyms too. She picks up and plays with her baby for a good weight workout.
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Old 04-24-2013, 02:10 PM   #224
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I am pretty excited that i have stopped weighing for the first time in my life. I think it was affecting me more than i cared to admit. If my weight was up one morning, it would sometimes make me feel like i was too fat to exercise (since extra weight DOES make things like running, pullups, etc. harder)...so occasionally i'd just crawl back into bed or, worse, go straight to breakfast without my normal morning exercise. I believe in listening to your body not only with regard to food, but also exercise. So, while it's ok to occasionally skip my workout because i'm tired, it's NOT ok to skip it because of a number on the scale!
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Old 04-24-2013, 03:22 PM   #225
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I just skimmed through the pdf of the book and agree that it's a good read, and surprisingly well written for a self-published book. My one beef with intuitive eating is the prescription to stop eating when you're full. Fullness has a strong subjective component, it seems to me. It's not just about the body's satiety signals, but about how we interpret them.

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I completely agree! I think Rob's "hunger scale" is so much hooey, but I think all these people who write IE books think they have to include some type of hunger "rating" component, so they make a stab at it. I think people trying to practice IE would be better served to do exactly what IE is supposed to be about - listening to your body.

I had a somewhat strange experience today. Like most people, my hunger signals come and go, even when I know I'm pretty hungry. For a myriad of reasons I ate very little Monday and Tuesday; I don't calorie count, but I'm sure I was way under maintenance calories. But I wasn't really hungry, so I ate what I needed. Then last night I woke up in the middle of the night due to having a major Niaspan flush (Niaspan is a prescription med I take for cholesterol which is timed-released niacin) so I got up and took a benadryl so I could go back to sleep. I noticed I was relatively hungry but didn't want to eat - for some reason I have an aversion to eating in the middle of the night even if I'm hungry - so I went back to sleep in about 30 minutes. Got up this morning and went about my normal routine, which doesn't include breakfast, but I never noticed being hungry. I'm heading to the YMCA to do some walking, and suddenly a wave of hunger such as I haven't experienced in a very long time came washing over me. It was so intense, and it hit me just as I have described - like a tidal wave!

It was the kind of hunger that says "Feed me - and now!!!" So I did. I went and got a big hearty breakfast and enjoyed every bite. I ate almost everything on my plate, but I did leave a few hash browns because I was full - or at least I thought I was. I then went and walked, and after that I went to the grocery store.

Normally if I eat a breakfast as big as the one I had this morning - esp. if I eat it as late as I did (around 10:30 am) I won't eat for the rest of the day. But I can already tell that I will need something else to eat. I'm not hungry, but I'm not really full either. I wouldn't even call myself satiated at this point, but the way I feel is so rare I'm not sure how to describe it. It's almost as if I'm on the edge of hungry, peering over into the abyss, but I haven't fallen in yet. Weird.

So I'm using this as a real learning opportunity to listen to my body. Apparently I just didn't feed it enough in the previous 48 hours before today, and it's trying desperately to catch up. I'm beginning to understand how our bodies do indeed regulate themselves. Fascinating, actually.

And to bring this back to Freelancemomma's original point - the hunger/fullness component. If I'd had to "rate" how I felt this morning it was absolutely off the chart hunger. On a scale of 1-10 I'd rate it about a 15! Yet it did not come on to me gradually; it hit me upside the head. There's no way to define or measure that kind of hunger. And it was completely different from what I would consider "normal" hunger - that is, normal for ME.

Who's to say that some people don't feel any type of hunger at all until it is as intense as I had this morning? How are you going to rate that on a scale? Cannot be done, IMO.
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