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Two remarkable articles about going grain free

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Old 04-10-2014, 02:19 PM   #31
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Let me also say calorie counting is clearly a fad.

Think about it. No one even knew what a calorie was till a few hundred years ago. As I've found and Annik found, no calorie counting is necessary on low carb.

Why? If done right it is high fat and fat fills you up. Study after study shows people do less well on low fat with calorie counting as compared to high fat and eat as much as you want.

Fat is just naturally filling. Why would it be naturally filling and people all over the world being healthy on it if it was bad for you? Perhaps it isn't bad for you but great for your?

NOTE: vegetable oils ARE bad for you. But coconut oil, macadamia nuts, avocados, grass fed butter, lard, tallow? All good. And super filling and super metabolism, and well just super good.

Obviously for 99.9999% of human history no one counted calories. We didn't even know what a calorie was. Now to be fair there was the concept of gluttony. I wonder how many of those were early partakers in high carbs?

Carbs were around in the form of grains when writing came in. And starchy vegetables.
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Old 04-10-2014, 02:22 PM   #32
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I am on The Ideal Protein Diet which is low carb, low fat and moderate protein.

Given the results from blood tests and other profiles, I am never going back to my old way of eating. I was morbidly obese despite trying to manage; my blood pressure and blood sugars were starting to climb; etc, etc, etc.

I don't struggle with cravings. I have a high level of satiation. I feel 100% better all around. My doctor says my blood profile is one 'to die for!'

I just can't justify going back.

I want to speak about the programme. If my words can help someone else the way my brother's words helped me, then YAY!
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w1: 11 lbs; w2: 4 lbs; w3: 3.6 lbs; w4: 5 lbs; w5: 5 lbs;w6: 2.4 lbs; w7: 1.4lbs; w8: 6lbs ; w9: 1lb w10: 4.6 lbs w11: 0lbs w12: 5 lbs; w13: 2 lbs w14: 4 lbs ; w15: no w.i.; w16: 11.5 lbs ; w17: 1 lb; w18: 2.5 lbs; w19: 2 lbs; w20: .5; w21: no w.i.; w22: 9 lbs; w23: 3.5 lbs ...

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Old 04-10-2014, 02:24 PM   #33
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Hum...See well different strokes. I wonder if you eat food naturally high in fat? You can have a high fat diet without 'adding fats'. For instance cheese, nuts, avocado, eggs, bacon, meats in general, etc.

I think it is harder to succeed with low carb low fat, and you might have too much protein if not careful. But that is my personal experience and take on things.

Last edited by diamondgeog : 04-10-2014 at 02:25 PM.
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Old 04-10-2014, 02:28 PM   #34
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Even within the low-carb forum, there is room for a discussion and even debate of the merits and detriments of exclusion/inclusion of whole grain and fruit. Afterall, this is the low-carb forum, not the no-carb forum.

Even a diet of 40% carbs such as the Zone or a whole-grain-allowing diet like South Beach are a carb-conscious diabetic diet allowing up to 200 g of carbohydrare are all so much lower in carbs than the typical American diet.

That doesn't mean everyone has to agree that higher carb diets or small amounts of whole grains or white rice are dangerous for everyone on the planet. Even Atkins, one of the stricter low-carb diets allows for the reintroduction of legumes, fruits, starchy veggies, and whole grains (rungs 6-9 on the carb ladder).

I find some of the pro- whole grain arguments persuasive, especially for people with low inflammation lifestyles (such as very lean, athletes, with low-stress lifestyles, and no family history of autoimmune diseases or chronic health issues).

That doesn't mean I should be eating them, because the deleterious effects for a person in my situation.

In the pro-grain community, anti-grain science is largely dismissed, ignored, and discredited. Exagerated and inaccurate claims are made that have NO basis in fact.

The anti-grain (only some of which are low-carb) community, treats the pro-grain science the same way and misleading information is just as prevalent.

There's nothing wrong with considering and questioning ALL of the evidence both inside and outside your chosen community.
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Old 04-10-2014, 03:33 PM   #35
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Quote:
Originally Posted by diamondgeog View Post
Hum...See well different strokes. I wonder if you eat food naturally high in fat? You can have a high fat diet without 'adding fats'. For instance cheese, nuts, avocado, eggs, bacon, meats in general, etc.

I think it is harder to succeed with low carb low fat, and you might have too much protein if not careful. But that is my personal experience and take on things.
Too much protein... yes, that's a definite concern. For that reason, this is a 'moderate protein' diet (unlike Atkins which I understand says go freely on protein). From what I have read, too much protein can cause weight loss to stall.

When I get to maintenance, more fats will come in to the picture. For now, things are working very well on this protocol.

Annik
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w1: 11 lbs; w2: 4 lbs; w3: 3.6 lbs; w4: 5 lbs; w5: 5 lbs;w6: 2.4 lbs; w7: 1.4lbs; w8: 6lbs ; w9: 1lb w10: 4.6 lbs w11: 0lbs w12: 5 lbs; w13: 2 lbs w14: 4 lbs ; w15: no w.i.; w16: 11.5 lbs ; w17: 1 lb; w18: 2.5 lbs; w19: 2 lbs; w20: .5; w21: no w.i.; w22: 9 lbs; w23: 3.5 lbs ...

No longer morbidly obese! Total loss now = 108 lbs. With thanks to the Ideal Protein Diet (a form of ketogenic nutrition)!

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Old 04-10-2014, 04:51 PM   #36
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Annik View Post
Too much protein... yes, that's a definite concern. For that reason, this is a 'moderate protein' diet (unlike Atkins which I understand says go freely on protein). From what I have read, too much protein can cause weight loss to stall.

When I get to maintenance, more fats will come in to the picture. For now, things are working very well on this protocol.

Annik
Not trying to start another debate here....but, Atkins is not a high protein diet.
http://www.atkins.com/Program/Overvi...ein-Diet.aspx#
With so many misconceptions about Atkins, with all due respect, I just wanted to clarify this one

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Old 04-10-2014, 05:47 PM   #37
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This is devolving. I've had it happen on other threads. Lets say there are many passions on nutrition and weight loss.

Back to the high fat low fat. I don't know much about Atkins. I do know after induction more carbs are allowed. In sites I go to I've heard it called high fat. And the sites I go to make VERY clear it is low carb HIGH fat. The approach is not intended to be high protein.

Now I do not much about Ideal Protein so this could be completely wrong. But it seems to be the high protein variant among low carb approaches.
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Old 04-10-2014, 06:50 PM   #38
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Quote:
Originally Posted by time2lose View Post
I want to point out that this is the low carb section of the forum and as such it is an appropriate place for the discussions on the benefits of going grain free. If this were the general weight loss sections, I would expect the types of arguments that this thread has evolved into.

... It would be like going to the Weight Loss Surgery support forum and ridiculing weight loss surgery.
I completely agree. We do have an unspoken rule that we are not to go into other forums to debate their diet of choice, because that forum was created for support.

I would like to ask that any further replies to this thread be in the spirit of support, not debate, because we are in the Low Carb forum. A little bit of positive debate is good, but not when it results in insults and arguments.

Anyone is welcome to create a thread in a non-specific forum to debate diet approaches.

Thanks
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Old 04-10-2014, 07:23 PM   #39
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JerseyGyrl View Post
Not trying to start another debate here....but, Atkins is not a high protein diet.
http://www.atkins.com/Program/Overvi...ein-Diet.aspx#
With so many misconceptions about Atkins, with all due respect, I just wanted to clarify this one


Thanks JerseyGyrl. My information about Atkins comes from the Jimmy Moore Livin Lavida Low Carb website (I am going on his cruise in May!)

He is a person who lost a lot of weight on Atkins and then started gaining it back. He says that he found that it was too much protein that was causing the gain (I could be mistaken but I think the liver has the capacity to convert protein to sugars ... which are responsible for the gain).

He says that when he started cutting back on the protein, he started to lose weight again.

I wonder if the Atkins diet at some point had a revision in its programme? There is the new and the old Atkins?

And speaking of fats, Diamondgeog, it is on the Low Carb Cruise that I hope to start learning about the consumption of fats. Jimmy Moore, as far as I know, eats healthy fats freely. They talk about 'Bullet Coffee' which sounds appealing to me.

I wonder how much mental illness like depression and anxiety can be attributed to the low fat regimes that have been for so long been pushed at us by allopathic medicine. Allopathic doctors themselves are starting to come on board with the idea that low fat is not necessarily good for the body... and especially the brain which has fat as one of its major components. No good quality fat in the diet = no good brain chemistry = leads to depression, anxiety?

Ketogenic nutrition is now being used in some cases for treatment of depression. It is also used in some cases for the treatment of epilepsy.
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w1: 11 lbs; w2: 4 lbs; w3: 3.6 lbs; w4: 5 lbs; w5: 5 lbs;w6: 2.4 lbs; w7: 1.4lbs; w8: 6lbs ; w9: 1lb w10: 4.6 lbs w11: 0lbs w12: 5 lbs; w13: 2 lbs w14: 4 lbs ; w15: no w.i.; w16: 11.5 lbs ; w17: 1 lb; w18: 2.5 lbs; w19: 2 lbs; w20: .5; w21: no w.i.; w22: 9 lbs; w23: 3.5 lbs ...

No longer morbidly obese! Total loss now = 108 lbs. With thanks to the Ideal Protein Diet (a form of ketogenic nutrition)!

Low carb life is my liberation!

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Old 04-10-2014, 07:30 PM   #40
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I have bulletproof coffee every morning. And perhaps Atkins is too much protein. The sites I went to all made it the correct approach was high fat not high protein.

I am closest probably to Primal, but really just kind of cobbled info together. Tell us about the cruise. That is exciting. I want to hear about it.

Fats have so many positive benefits. Good quality fats.

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Old 04-10-2014, 07:32 PM   #41
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Originally Posted by kaplods View Post
There's nothing wrong with considering and questioning ALL of the evidence both inside and outside your chosen community.
There's wisdom in this kaplods.

Unfortunately, people often are just completely dismissive of new points of view.

I see Joseph Mercola dismissed outright by some people yet many of his articles are well documented by independent sources.

It's the usual way -- demonization of someone who is bringing a new idea into a community that is resistant to change.

I am not a Mercola apologist. There are question marks about some of his ideas. But so too are there question marks about some practices of modern medicine.

Everyone has to keep her or his thinking cap on in the journey of life. Important to be asking questions and considering things all the time.
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w1: 11 lbs; w2: 4 lbs; w3: 3.6 lbs; w4: 5 lbs; w5: 5 lbs;w6: 2.4 lbs; w7: 1.4lbs; w8: 6lbs ; w9: 1lb w10: 4.6 lbs w11: 0lbs w12: 5 lbs; w13: 2 lbs w14: 4 lbs ; w15: no w.i.; w16: 11.5 lbs ; w17: 1 lb; w18: 2.5 lbs; w19: 2 lbs; w20: .5; w21: no w.i.; w22: 9 lbs; w23: 3.5 lbs ...

No longer morbidly obese! Total loss now = 108 lbs. With thanks to the Ideal Protein Diet (a form of ketogenic nutrition)!

Low carb life is my liberation!

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Old 04-10-2014, 07:54 PM   #42
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Annik,

You are a lot more understanding than I am. Since this is a support group I have A LOT of anger. My uncle has diabetes and dementia. He was brilliant and now he has essentially been taken from me. He followed the standard advice. Was given statins. He even contributed to American Heart Assoc and Diabetes Assoc for decades. And as I see it they helped give him debilitating diseases.

The standard nutrition advice is to sell commodities. Our deaths are not only just a by product but a useful opportunity to make more money along the way: medicine, operations, hospitals. I am not saying everyone knew what was happening at first, but they do now. And they know LCHF will save people and take their money away.

Thank goodness social media exists now. I think this is why low carb and grain free is going to be bigger this time.

Oh and we were infertile. I'd not trade my daughter for anything but adoption is hard when you go through foster system. We had a placement go back. When we were dating we talked about having one biological child and one adoptive child. That should have been our choice. Would we have been infertile without all the nutrition misinformation spewed for corporate benefit? Maybe. Maybe not.

So this is not minor stuff. How many of us have has our lives or our loved ones lives diminished/altered by the high carb low fat 'madness' of the last 50 years?

But I have channeled that anger to transforming my mind and body and helping others. My wife has already lost over 25lbs this year which is almost more exciting than me. And I try to help and on twitter and am getting involved in changing our school district.

Last edited by diamondgeog : 04-10-2014 at 08:03 PM.
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Old 04-10-2014, 08:12 PM   #43
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You make so much sense, Diamondgeog. I am so sorry for your challenges. The health care system has saved me in some emergencies ... but on the other hand, sometimes it has been the doctors who created the emergencies!

It is good to work with our doctors but at the same time, we have to be questioning them. PErsonal experience tells me that story. And believe me, they are not always receptive to questions!

Information about the Low Carb Cruise is here

I became intrigued by it when I learned physicians from Sweden participate on it (Sweden has moved its official food guide to a low carb model). The cruise brings together experts from across the field to teach, learn and have fun. And people who are doing low carb as a way of life (or interested in learning about it) are invited to come along.

I think this is its 7th year of sailing.

Links to past talks are available on the website and on Jimmy Moore's home page, too. Livin La Vida Low Carb

Jimmy Moore's story in a nutshell is here: 'In January 2004, Jimmy Moore made a decision to get rid of the weight that was literally killing him. At 32 years of age and 410 pounds, the time had come for a radical change of lifestyle. A year later, he had shed 180 pounds, shrunk his waist by 20 inches, and dropped his shirt size from 5XL to XL. After his dramatic weight loss, Jimmy was inundated with requests from friends, neighbors and complete strangers seeking information and help. Jimmy is dedicated to helping as many people as possible find the information they need to make the kind of lifestyle change he has made. To that end, he has started a blog and a number of web-sites to get out the message of lifestyle change and healthy living. On his website you will find links to Jimmy's blog, his YouTube videos and all of the websites he contributes to.'
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w1: 11 lbs; w2: 4 lbs; w3: 3.6 lbs; w4: 5 lbs; w5: 5 lbs;w6: 2.4 lbs; w7: 1.4lbs; w8: 6lbs ; w9: 1lb w10: 4.6 lbs w11: 0lbs w12: 5 lbs; w13: 2 lbs w14: 4 lbs ; w15: no w.i.; w16: 11.5 lbs ; w17: 1 lb; w18: 2.5 lbs; w19: 2 lbs; w20: .5; w21: no w.i.; w22: 9 lbs; w23: 3.5 lbs ...

No longer morbidly obese! Total loss now = 108 lbs. With thanks to the Ideal Protein Diet (a form of ketogenic nutrition)!

Low carb life is my liberation!

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Old 04-10-2014, 08:21 PM   #44
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Thanks. Jimmy has tweeted with me a couple of times. Professor Tim Noakes is remarkable.

http://thenoakesfoundation.org/ he just started a foundation. In the connect section there is a link to the foundation YouTube station. Great videos.

This isn't from that but a great one of his. Essentially humans have become zoo animals being fed a non natural diet. What happens to zoo animals fed the wrong stuff? They die or become infertile.

http://youtu.be/vdrEiu6aaVM

Last edited by diamondgeog : 04-10-2014 at 08:24 PM.
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Old 04-10-2014, 08:43 PM   #45
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Quote:
Originally Posted by diamondgeog View Post

Now I do not much about Ideal Protein so this could be completely wrong. But it seems to be the high protein variant among low carb approaches.
Ideal Protein is a moderate protein approach.

All varieties on the same spectrum: ketogenic nutrition.
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w1: 11 lbs; w2: 4 lbs; w3: 3.6 lbs; w4: 5 lbs; w5: 5 lbs;w6: 2.4 lbs; w7: 1.4lbs; w8: 6lbs ; w9: 1lb w10: 4.6 lbs w11: 0lbs w12: 5 lbs; w13: 2 lbs w14: 4 lbs ; w15: no w.i.; w16: 11.5 lbs ; w17: 1 lb; w18: 2.5 lbs; w19: 2 lbs; w20: .5; w21: no w.i.; w22: 9 lbs; w23: 3.5 lbs ...

No longer morbidly obese! Total loss now = 108 lbs. With thanks to the Ideal Protein Diet (a form of ketogenic nutrition)!

Low carb life is my liberation!

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