Thanks for the reply, Cherbear. The main reason a fat dude gravitated to 3
Fat Chicks was the sense in this community that whatever works for you is best. Diet specific sites, even Mark's Daily Apple (specifically primal), tend to create dogma and debates that are not useful for everyone. Here if a vegan does great, everyone is happy, likewise for a steak chewing fat slurping Atkins dieter. There's several ways to skin a fat cat. What you're experiencing with calorie restriction is what I expect to experience eventually. I share your fear and believe it is a healthy fear.

This article by James Krieger is involved but something everyone coming down from morbidly obese levels needs to understand. There's documented reasons why we yo yo. It is harder for a once obese person at 175 to stay there than it is for someone who's always been there. It's almost unfair, but your approach is right on. Great job with the loss and the maintenance.

Krieger (the anti-Taubes) is a challenge for those of us sold on one (our) way. His ways are individualized and hopefully optimized on a case by case basis. What I take from that article is calorie restriction is probably in my maintenance future. Sassykathy (I hope she's still with us) could also probably benefit from the lessons you've learned and Krieger's case by case approach. Though he does favor low carb for those way over weight with some physical limitations.

(James, if the backlink brings you here, BibBob = Grol/Robert. This is where I hang out to pick up hot chicks.) :)

:D BibBob "You should rub grape seed oil all over your body but never eat it. You should eat lard before wasting it on soap"

I am cracking up over here! Must say my first comment I needed to delete, it could have been taken WAY wrong.

So that does answer my question about grapeseed oil being an OK cooking oil. apparently it is not, and yes it does do wonders for the skin.

Lard certainly is a mental issue, but hey! Think of all the mexican food I love that is made with lard. The restaurants usually dont use Lard, but the little mom and pops, that we have so much of in Central Washington, they do, and it does make a difference! That mental block will be addressed in time I am sure.

I was also going to ask if anyone else found a different environment in the forum at MarksDailyApple....and yet again you answered a question before it was answered. Thanks, now I know it is not just me.

To be clear, all the refined seed oils are no nos in the primal world. I suppose very high quality cold pressed unrefined (costly!) grape seed oil is pretty good stuff if you don't fret the amazingly high (highest I have seen) omega6 levels. I'm going with the current information, trying to increase O3s (eating fish and supplementing) and eliminate refined veggie, seed, and legume (soy) based O6s. I still get O6 from whole foods like meat and nuts. I'm personally not 100% sold on the "omega ratio" information so popular in the paleo world, but I'm pretty impressed with the seafood found in healthy diets and O3 research results. What we primals strive for on this topic may not be completely necessary, but it has to be pretty stinkin' healthy. I find it easy to use olive oil, coconut oil, butter, ghee and even lard and tallow as my replacement fats. Olive oil and butter are what I use primarily. Despite embracing the idea that saturated fats aren't the health horror conventional wisdom has made us believe, I still think from a pure calorie standpoint, they should be watched. Sure they burn elegantly in a ketogenic body, but less of them will encourage elegant body fat burning. That's my current position anyway.

I bought the Anti-Inflamitory Diet book last spring, which is all about making sure your O3's are higher than your O6's at the end of the day. We started doing that and after about a month I found a huge decrease in foot pain (I have plantar faciitis on the R and past severe ankle sprain and broken top of foot on L)
Already cut out the artificial sweetners that made a huge difference (diet pepsi CAN poison you, for reals!) The asparatame can change your neuro-receptors which translate pain when you consume large amounts over a long period of time.

Anyway, just my 2 cents about how what we put in our mouth can effect pain!

Just checking in to say so far so good. I was tired yesterday so I decided to slowly taper my carbs and now I'm aiming for 50-100 per day. I feel good, not hungry, and I have plenty of energy today, I even made it to 12 without food! I went and stocked up on plenty of meat, veggies, and berries, and I even tried my hand at low carb primal muffins. I think I'm going to have to go a while without sugar to enjoy those things but hey I tried!

Yippee for BOB! (The anticipation was starting to get to me.)

I cruise MDA looking for interesting tidbits of information, but I know I don't have the time to be as meticulous as some there about my intake. Probably nobody there would ever eat PBJ's in their sleep, I just know!

Has anyone read anything about Primal Toddlers? My 4 year old still gets what "normal" kids get and likes his carbs. He gets milk as well and I'm afraid to change too much since he is already very thin. That and he is in daycare eating daycarejunk while I support us all through DH's school.

Today has been much better as far as my intake. [There were no crumbs on the counter this morning...] My egg frittata for breakfast, cheese and strawberries for lunch and headed into grilled something at dinner. Or maybe taco salad...

I noticed a post about what do you say to people about how you're eating these days and I'd have to say nobody seems to care. When my husband comes home from school in Chicago we eat more steak--which is great for him since he's a diabetic. Even the "Ultimate Saboteur Co-worker" has given up on trying to sink my boat and now concentrates on the new person--who seems to eat only BBQ chips.

I do go on....anyway Happy Friday to one and all!

Spanky

Hah! I tried primal pumpkin muffins when I was upping carbs before my trip to LA. They were funky and I barely choked one down. I added stevia, cinnamon, nutmeg, eggs, buttermilk and potato flour and called them pumpkin pancakes. My 11 year old now says they're her favorite pancakes. So something good came of it. I think for me it's best just to understand imitating old faves like muffins and breads is never going to really work.

I am at the same point BibBob. I was making imitation hamburgers with brown rice and beans...they never taste like burgers! And I am not even going to try to attempt making pancakes or cookies etc.....

But there is no imitating a good ole' steak, which is dinner, with zucchini and patty pan squash cooked with onions and garlic and fresh basil

Thanks Spanks. There's been a few good threads there about primal kids. The worrisome thing to me is that the combo of refined carbs and fats is really bad. So many primal parents may not have the heart to eliminate the breads and hfcs from their kids' diets while cranking up the "healthy primal fats". Those good intentions can backfire, badly. My only kid is old enough, 11, to be educated about what her fat dad is doing and why. The changes have been major so we discuss it all the time. She is my motivation, btw. She has cut out most bread completely on her own, but she was never a big bread eater. She loves mashed cauli as a potato replacement, but I am letting her enjoy grandma's pasta, Subways with her friends, a danish on the run in the morning, or whatever. I don't want her to have eating issues or feel pressured about food. Baby steps for kids. She's not obese, 5' and 100 pounds, and her body composition has really improved this summer just from the changes she has volunteered to make. No sodas, no high hfcs juices, no bags of candy, cookies or candy bars, almost no bread or other sweets. We were huge pie eaters and she hasn't had a slice since May with no complaints.

I'm so chatty today. I took the day off. Mikkijoe sent me a PM that I thought could have been discussed openly. I asked. She confessed she almost posted it in this thread and that I was free to respond here, so... I am:

I'm glad you didn't change it. Even though I'm not 100% sure I understand it. :D

In regards to the weight loss rate slowing and maybe being disappointed, my plan all along has been to take off 100 pounds as fast as I can (in good health, staying strong enough to exercise daily and without drugs), then deliberately hit the brakes and take it off at a more reasonable pace. I don't want sagging skin on my belly. I don't want to rebound. I don't want to harm my health (some studies discourage losing too fast from a mortality stand point-- eeks). I don't care if the last 70 pounds are a year long battle. I do believe morbidly obese people in moderately good physical health (able to walk 5 miles daily if needed) can dump the "morbidly" very fast, in most cases. Certainly not everyone, and it does take a ton of will power, effort, focus and (for me) information.

In regards to all the encouragement here, it's like a wonderful gift I wish I could repay. I understand it's easier for men to lose weight than women, and my athletic background (solid physical base) probably makes it easier for me than most similarly overweight men.

But, I agree in a way with what you're saying. When I'm told I've inspired someone that is far more inspirational for me (what a compliment) than the very cool cheers that put a huge smile on my face. It also puts a little pressure on me to keep up the good work. It's not much of a reach to see how I could naturally start struggling and the pressure of being an inspiration could then backfire. So, I plan to slow down and stop being such an inspiration. To me, the real inspirations are the "maintainers" not "the losers". Once I've been at or under 200 pounds for a couple years... then I'll believe what I've done should inspire others. Make sense?

I edited your PM and don't feel like fixing it. haha.
But you said you have some background on goal setting. I think it is a hugely important topic to discuss. I confess, I see a lot of goals in other threads at 3FC that make want to say, "Hey, set a serious goal!" Striving to be 5-3 and 250 is great for someone 350, but... okay I'll stop and let that discussion take wing or not from there.

Okay, I will add that the mental aspect of all of this is key. I could have accomplished the weight loss on Atkins, South Beach, Mediterranean or The Zone with the same mindset. I just prefer the natural whole foods and no grains emphasis of Primal, and the lack of set rules to follow. I don't do rules well. I need the flexibility.

I've mentioned before that mentally I reached a point (deeply depressed) where I honestly would rather just die than be so fat. Brutal statement. But then I see my kid and understand how much she needs me (and wants me to be happy too), that combination is incredibly motivating. I think a lot of morbidly obese people "want" to lose weight, but until they find an overwhelming reason to "have" to lose weight, they're going to struggle. I "want" a lot of things. I do the things I "have" to. I have to lose weight. I have to get lean. I have to maintain a healthy lean weight for the rest of my half spent life. I might want all that stuff too, but just wanting will never make it happen. ****, I want a private jet! I don't have to have one.

SusanB is a big inspiration to me. She's been here since 03 and she's still here every day encouraging others while she maintains and improves. That's way more awesome than me dropping almost 70 pounds in 3 months. There's others I could mention, but I'll just put the pressure of being an inspiration on her for now. :p

I do agree about Mark's forums. He's such an awesome dude that he's attracted a very young and robust fitness crowd we fatties have a little difficulty relating to. But his plan is for us too, maybe even moreso. And the whole life approach appeals to me to no end. He told me to play more. That has brought me as much joy as losing the weight. There's actually a bunch of very obese posters there reporting success. You just have to weed through the journals.

Okay, I am done here for the day. Time to go play!

Ever get in the zone and just have so many thought to get out that they come out faster than your head can make proper sentences out of? Ummm Yeah, my writing sucks when I get excited.

But I had things on my mind and heart I had to get out! Hope they were not too confusing!

Encouragement is what we are all here for, but I am always sensitive to those who may feel they have disappointed the peers when the performance has declined for what ever reason.

Anyway, nuff said, other than I love all the great support and knowledge here! I am on other forums, but really am getting 'fed' on this right now

Wow, lots of chatting going on, I'll catch up later! Just stopping by to say howdy! I talked earlier about the clutter at my house so today after my morning client I came home and have been tackling the beast. Primal eating has given me so much energy I can't even keep up with myself lately. My brain sometimes feels like its telling me what to do and I'm 3 steps behind! My husband says its like I'm the energized bunny now!

So yesterday I had 3 thin sliced pork chops for breakfast and 3 eggs and didn't eat again til 5, I told my friend what I ate and she nearly had a heart attack! Today I skipped breakfast and ate a hodge podge of primal snacks throughout the day. I need to load up on some veggies tomorrow, I'm thinking of collards and coconut milk for lunch.

Have a great weekend everyone! Can't wait to catch up on the thread.

My coconut oil has NO coconut taste whatsoever and it cooks like a dream. It is called Jarrow's Formula, and on the side it says "Neutral Taste, Neutral Flavor." (I think they have another one that tastes of coconut, but I wanted to use mine for cooking and didn't want the taste.) Hope this helps.

Also, Lard is fine but NOT grape seed oil -- I agree with Bob, don't use any industrial seed oils. My mom used to cook with lard and bacon grease. Oh, the wonderful pie crusts she made with lard! They were glorious.

Hi CherBear ... I was posting here not long ago about how my eyebrows are really thickening up (a good thing, as I'm of that age when they tend to thin out).

Also ... and I just realized this ... my hair is down almost to my waist. I have had long hair for years, but always had a hard time growing it much past my shoulders. I just tell the hairdresser to trim off the split ends, and don't pay much attention to it in the back. Somehow it went to from shoulder length to almost my waist in the last year or so. I am sure this way of eating has something to do with it.

SusanB is a big inspiration to me. She's been here since 03 and she's still here every day encouraging others while she maintains and improves ... I'll just put the pressure of being an inspiration on her for now.


Well, well, well ... how to respond to that. You might note that I don't have to but I'm a prideful thing and want to :D

Other than nursing and being a wife and mother, 3FC is the most long-lived "habit" in my life. I feel very strongly that we each have abundant life and should be able to enjoy it. Our bodies are marvelous machines capable of healing, dealing and fun. What do we expect our bodies to run on, if it is not our food? Proper maintenance of our machine is far more important that sickness care.

There are a couple of things about weight loss that I believe to be true.

1. Anybody can do it. I am not special in any way.
2. Yoyoing is not failure. It simply means that you have not found "the" lifelong plan for you yet. And I guess that if someone has to be an example of that ... I'll do it.

The general health of our society is dreadful. Can I help in a big way? No. Can I help in a small way? Sure.

I am what I am and it ain't fancy. If you are encouraged by me ... I feel honoured.

Just by the by ... there is not one post in these primal threads that I do not find encouraging. And I wouldn't know proper grammar and/or punctuation, if it jumped up and bit me.