Am I a Bad Person???

[ThicknPretty]

CHUNKEY_MUNKEY: I am not at all surprised that one person took everything the complete wrong way...there's always that one person! I am very accustomed to being misunderstood. You are indeed entitled to your opinion just as I am to mine and I sure hope no one tells you off! I think you could have delivered your opinion in a less emotional, more tactful way. Considering I DO have weight and self esteem issues of my own, it's odd that your response was directed at me as if I am an enemy of some sort! However, I am a really reasonable person and very level headed. I wrote that post because I felt guilty...not gleeful or superior or smug. I have nothing to feel smug about. I am the way I am because of my own choices and decisions and I am so far from perfect it's a little depressing. However, I'm 23 and my mother is 45. I am accountable for my actions and I am struggling to make changes for the better. I am a parent myself and I know that 1) I want to be healthy for my child 2) I want to be HAPPY for my child 3) I want to set good examples for my child. My mother has never ONCE taken any of those stands in life for ME. So while you're sitting there hoping that I burst into tears at the thought of what someone else thinks of me (which, by the way, I am very well aware of...one of the reasons I am making an effort to lose weight...would never cry about it though...whats the point?), why don't you instead get off the attack horse and put yourself in MY position.

To the rest of you, thank you so much for focusing on my intent and the words I actually wrote, not what could be inferred from a negative standpoint. I really DO appreciate all the positive feedback, the gentle criticism and that all of you have taken time to point out to me the things I hadn't thought of before. You have all been really insightful. I had a nagging feeling that my negative feelings towards my mom were rooted in negative feelings for myself and I see now that many of you agree...

Thanks again

[ThicknPretty]

kaplods: thank you for your intelligent, well thought out response and for the book suggestions definitely! It makes me feel really bad to have feelings like that towards my mom because she has done a lot for me and I know that it's important to respect her...so thanks. And yeah, I guess you're right, I am a little embarassed...that's bad...

I just wonder if she's ever going to get on track with me. I don't NEED her to do that to make my life better...but I worry about her aging and her health and what things will be life for her ten years from now...

And it's hard for me to stay on track when I'm surrounded by people who just don't seem to realize how hard it is or how important it is to be healthy...

[kaplods]

I have to defend Chunky_Munkey somewhat. When you asked your question, you had to realize that some people would feel the answer was "yes."

I don't think that you can expect everyone to be so absolutely gentle with you, for expressing feelings that aren't so gentle. Particularly on the topic of feeling "disgust" for people with a great deal of weight to lose.

Many people can't get over the apparent hypocricy of a person judging so harshly (whether or not the person feels bad about it) and yet seeming to expect to be treated gently for the harsh opinion. In a perfect world, maybe - but in the real world, probably not. It's only fair to be as forgiving of another person's harsh feelings as you want them to be toward your own.


The topic itself is a very painful one for many of us. We've felt far too painfully disgust and contempt sent our direction, that we can get a bit fired up when those emotions are being hurled at someone else - especially when the hurler is someone who it may seem should know better because they experience it themselves.

I'm not saying you're supposed to feel that you deserve harsh criticism, here - but certainly I guess I would expect you to understand why it's there.

Being a target of disgust, distate, contempt, ridicule, and even hatred - by not only strangers but also people in our lives that are supposed to love us - leaves some pretty deep and thick scars, that can really hurt when someone expresses those feelings and seems to want/expect a warm "it's ok to feel that way," reaction.

No - it's not ok. Your mom probably knows how you feel about her - and it certainly can't lighten her depression to know her daughter finds her weak, disgusting and repulsive.

If someone said that about your mother - you would rush to defend her - and that's what Chunkey_Monkey did - rush to your mom's defense - a woman she doesn't even know, because she identified with your mother's position more than yours.

I have to say that I do too. Probably because my situation is closer to your mothers than your own. I tried to be sympathetic to your situation, but I guess I'd hope that you could be a bit more sympathetic to Chunkey_Munkey's and your mother's. If you think your mom doesn't know what you think of her, you're probably wrong.

I also doubt that she's unaware of the importance of healthy habits. I've known since I was a child, the importance - and yet was unable to succeed. I struggled along with my overweight mother - she struggling with the same 100 lbs, and my only getting larger and larger with each weight loss attempt.

Knowing the importance, and being able to succeed are two different skill sets. She's not intentionally trying to sabotage you or make your life more difficult. You really can't walk in her shoes so I understand why you can't fully understand her point of view yet.

It really is true that a person tends not to appreciate their own parents struggles until they experience most of those same struggles themselves. It's funny how parents get smarter, the older we get.

[Glory87]

Sometimes, I am torn between great empathy and a "I can do it, anyone can do it!" mentality.

I have to say, I do notice much more the large servings in restaurants, the grocery carts loaded with chips, frozen pizzas, snack cakes and white bread, the heavy children.

I've always said that permanent weight loss was the hardest and the easiest thing I have done - at the same time. It is easy to eat an apple, it's hard to eat an apple when the choice is an apple or a pastry, or if you forget to bring your apple and the only thing to eat at work comes out of a snack machine.

We live in a culture that has a very conflicting message. Be thin and beautiful but SUPER SIZE your fries. Restaurant portions are huge, but models have every ounce of fat/loose skin airbrushed off them.

It's easy to think, well, everyone has big Starbucks coffees and gets a danish to go with it. There are donuts at work, everyone is eating them. Everyone gets fast food. Look at all these huge bags of chips by the register, it must be okay to buy them. Ordering pizza is regular. Big pans of frozen lasagna are de facto dinners.

So, I'm just rambling on here. I'm trying to say, we may know what it takes to lose weight, but we want to eat like regular people (Or how we perceive "regular" people eat). A HUGE step for me was realizing that I couldn't eat that way. The typical "american" diet made me fat. I had to get off the bus of convenience and it is HARD, so very hard.

Not only is it very difficult to live a healthy lifestyle (just the planning and expense and cooking!) but food is also love, and comfort and tastes so good.

So, part of me is like JUST DO IT YOU CAN LIVE WITHOUT HOHOS and the other part of me is like I understand, I know it's hard. Because I know, personally know, deep down in my soul, how hard it is, I could never feel contempt or disgust for overweight people (maybe frustration as indicated above for people who talk and talk and talk and never DO).

That is your mother. If she is like me, her eating and weight are sources of great personal misery. Be a good and loving daughter. Share recipes, make her dinner (if she doesn't think healthy food can be yummy SHOW HER), go to a farmer's market together, go walking. Be understanding.

I don't want to be harsh, but you are in the losing weight stage, and it's tough for people to lose weight and keep it off. I hope only for your success, but don't be so quick to judge others before you've demonstrated some long term success of your own. As I said, losing weight is hard, but living a healthy lifestyle and staying slender forever? It's hard for life! (with great rewards, of course)

[tiffany0809]

I don't think you're a horrible person. I think that you are more likely to notice certain things. Not just people who are overweight, but the things that cause them to be overweight. There is SOOO much junk food out there and it seems easier to access. We're bombarded with advertisements for all of it, and it's hard to resist. Maybe you are just experiencing frustration with it because you work so hard to avoid it, while other people indulge in it. I wouldn't call it "jealousy," but sometimes I get annoyed when the people around me don't seem to care about their health and I work so hard to lead a healthy lifestyle. Sometimes it makes me want to cave in but I have to fight it.

[MathGirl87]

Here's my take on the whole thing...

First of all, unless any one of us is Mother Teresa or God (and I think it's safe to say that neither of them have an account on this forum), we all pass judgment...most of us are kind enough to keep this judgment to ourselves.

I think what is happening with you (and me for that matter) is that we have seen PERSONALLY what negative effects carrying extra weight can have on our lives. We know what it's like to feel lethargic, unmotivated, emotionally torn up, have really awful self-esteem, feel awful because every few months we have to concede and buy a size up..the list is endless.

But those of us who have committed to weight loss and changing our exercise and eating habits also know that it takes a lot of hard work.

I have to constantly plan out what I am going to eat, when and where I will exercise, look up menus to restaurants online to make sure that I can go out to eat, track what I eat and how much exercise I have done...

So for instance, there are some people that I am very close to who are very overweight...I have sympathy for them, I understand the position that they are in..I have been there. But the second I hear them talking about how they "just can't lose weight" I get irritated. I know that it takes a lot of hard work but I feel like if I can do it anyone can. I have found resources (this forum, nutrition and exercise information) to help me, the resources are available, they just choose not to use them because it's easier not to. It irritates me.

And yes, I feel bad when I look at people close to me who are overweight and judge them for going to that fast food restaurant or laying on the couch all day watching TV when they could be going for a walk. But I can't control my feelings, I just have to keep my mouth shut.

[MathGirl87]

Originally Posted by kaplods

I disagree that we should "hate the fat, but not the person." It's too much like hate the crime -not the criminal, implying that fat people ARE criminals, and their fat - their very existance being offensive and harmful to us all. I don't think we should hate fat at all. Body fat serves a very useful purpose, and until only the last couple generations, having a little extra ensured survival. The behavioral tendencies that ensured our survival, are now killing us.

Kap-I always love reading your opinions and advice and I generally agree...but this is one time that I do have to respectfully disagree.

I agree that there may be a connection between "hate the fat, but not the person" and "hate the crime, but not the criminal"..on the surface

What I do not agree on is that you can say that because those two statements are similar in structure that you can insinuate that by someone saying "hate the fat" implies that they make the connection from "hate the fat, but not the person" to an implication that "fat" people are criminals. No one is saying that.

We all know that being overweight and obese stems from very complex mechanisms, both physiological and emotional. But obesity/being overweight is something that when it comes down to it, we do to ourselves. We put the food in our mouths, for whatever reason, but no one is forcing us to do it (except for our mind)...we are the ones doing it. That said, I don't think that's "criminal" nor should the statement "hate the fat, love the person" be equated to that. I love my best friend...but I do not like the choices she makes in regards to food and not exercising - and the culmination of those poor decisions just happen to be physical in the form of fat.


So yes, I think the statement "hate the fat, love the person" is perfectly reasonable...because I hate the fat for eventually possibly acting to end my friend's life (or mine) but I love my friend and I love myself.

[midwife]

I don't think you are a bad person. I think you are very honest and it was brave for you to post your feelings here. I'm glad you're here!

[CLCSC145]

I was all set to be irked at your post, until I realized I have some very similar feelings toward my mom and her weight problem. And I feel the way I do for the reason you stated: I am absolutely scared to death of becoming her. So it's easy to pick apart the things in her that I most identify with and am trying hardest to get under control. It's not fair to her, I know. I should just love her faults and all and let her live her life as she wants to, but my frustrations get the better of me a lot of times.

As far as strangers with weight problems are concerned, I feel nothing but empathy. But my issues with my mom are different because as Kaplods so beautifully put it, my problem is ultimately with me not her. I fear not being able to conquer my weight problem like my mom failed to conquer hers. She gave up and I fear getting to the point where I give up too. I fear not having the life I want because I let the weight take over. She is one potential version of my future. A future I don't want for myself. So the trick is to steer my life in a different direction without hurting my mom in the process. I hope to get there one day.

[kaplods]

Originally Posted by MathGirl87

So yes, I think the statement "hate the fat, love the person" is perfectly reasonable...because I hate the fat for eventually possibly acting to end my friend's life (or mine) but I love my friend and I love myself.

I understand your perspective, I just disagree. It reminds me of a recent post in which the poster said "my body hates me," because of normal weight fluctuations. They weren't a function of the body misbehaving - but of operating properly

Our bodies and brains work they way they do for a reason. Fat is not the enemy, and neither is eating. I think that learning to change the behavior of overeating lies in understanding why it is a natural and good thing - not an abhorent, and deviant thing. We need to learn to work with our bodies (and yes, even the fat) rather than against it.

I think we tend to see people as being bad, weak, stupid, stubborn, selfish and all sorts of negative things - when I think that most obesity is caused by none of those things.

I think it's the environment more than the person. 100 years ago, people were thinner, but not smarter, more educated, nicer or more motivated than people today. A good thing (storing a bit of body fat for lean times) became a bad thing when lean times disappeared.

Instead of blaming the environment, we decide to blame the person.

Don't get me wrong, personal responsibility is a large component of fixing the problem, but learning to change the environment (even if it's your own personal environment) is more effective in my opinion than casting blame, especially when you're discussing a behavior that was "good" behavior necessary for survival for at least the last 200,000 years or so (longer, if you want to discuss pre-homo-sapiens species).

We've changed the rules - but our bodies are designed for the old rules (a lot of competition for fewer resources. A lot of energy expenditure in order to eat and avoid being eaten. Overpopulation occurring before widespread obesity in a population. "Sweet/salty/fat" cravings and behavior to seek out and eat as many foods with those flavors as possible - kept us alive. There was survival value in seeking those flavors, because they meant calorie density which in the natural world means survival.

The rules have changed, but calories, eating, and even fat aren't enemies. They still are necessary for survival. There's just no natural precedent in nature for having "too much" of a survival drive, because in the natural world "too much" is a state that doesn't exist.

I really think that blame and hatred of what once kept people alive (and to some degree still does) is counterproductive. Understanding how to make an unnatural environment mimic a more natural one makes more sense. Hatred of anythinging doesn't have to enter the picture at all.

[Lori Bell]

Yep...the apple doesn't fall far from the tree does it?

Whether it's your mother, or your possible love interest, or other fat people in your life that are beginning to disgust you, please remember that they are obese humans beings just like you, and that you are only an oreo away from being one of "them" again. Like a few other above so eloquently phrased, "Many of us" have been on the receiving end of that disgust. At 333 pounds, a mother, drinking beer and eating cookies at mid-night, embarrassing my sons because of my weight, suffering extreme depression, and full of self loathing I was a complete and miserable wreck. I am living proof that people can and do change, and I hope your Mother someday finds the strength I did. Maybe you could guide her here. If you are disgusted by her and not interested in helping her, I will be happy to try.

Yes, I admit when I shop at Wal-mart and see the obese people with loads of crap in their carts, or using the motorized scooters because they don't want to walk the store to buy their crap I get upset, but not because they disgust me, but because I want so badly to reach out and tell them there is another way... Let me tell you, I voiced that opinion here once and the thread was locked because I hurt so many peoples feeling...by feeling bad for obese people...feeling bad for what I once was... So, that's all I'll say, because I wrote a post previously, and deleted it because it was not real nicey-nice, and I have made a vow recently here at 3FC to be nicey-nice.

[JulieJ08]

You know, I think at heart you are just figuring out how to relate to others who still have a problem that you HATED having and want NEVER to have again. I think it's coming out in ways that are confused at first, and I don't doubt that your feelings will evolve and you'll figure it out. I think it's kind of a way of more solidly identifying yourself with your new lifestyle - but you can come up with other ways to do that.

You don't have much control over feelings at the moment they come up. But you do have control over future feelings via the choices you make. When you have those feelings, you can choose instead to remember what it was like for you, *before* you changed your eating. You can choose to redirect your disgust at the cheap and heavily advertised junk food. You can choose to imagine it was your own daughter who was so unhealthy - would you find it as easy to be disgusted by her? Maybe the disgust at her eating is masking some other difficult feelings you have with your mother. Just some ideas.

[cherry7211]

I feel the same way when I see overweight people at the store and I feel bad because I am not small at all and I never have been and I think WHY ARENT THEY DOING SOMETHING ABOUT IT!?! It would hurt my feelings if someone was looking at me in disgust or if I knew they were even thinking about me in a disgusting kinda way. When I see people eat and eat unhealthy it just makes me wana say something to try and help them but they gotta realize on their own. I don't think your mean at all just more aware now!

[Glory87]

I think Kaplods is making a lot of sense, as usual.

For thousands of years, it was in our best interest to gorge on sugar/fat when it was available, to protect us in lean times. It's only been very recently (and not everywhere in the world, even now) that we are faced with a surfeit of these foods.

I used to diet, restrict, binge. I'd eat one cookie or cracker and just stuff my face with the entire sleeve, hating myself, how I felt the whole time. I felt like a weak and out of control loser.

This time, I have thought hard that my body wants one thing - to live. The same adrenaline that zings through you in crisis, is just a hint of the power of the human body to stay living.

I don't fight my body anymore, I understand that when I eat a muffin and want more and more, it's the exact same feeling that my primitive ancestor felt when they found a hive of honey. If the guys brought home a big mammoth, do you think my ancestor said "no, go ahead, I'll just nibble this root" oh no, she cracked the bones and sucked the marrows, because who knew when there would be food again.

So, weight loss is hard because we're surrounded by a society that glorifies the worst possible foods. Weight loss is also hard because some bodies (like mine) are hard wired to react to certain foods with "more more more more more" It's also hard because food can be comfort. Not to mention social situations where so many of us women are raised that we just cant say "no" to Aunt Betty's coffee cake, she made it for us, special!

I always thought I had a problem with food. I was a secret eater and binger. Turns out I just had a problem with some foods. Eliminating sugary/white carby foods has been a relevation.

But - all of this, the planning, the giving up some foods, the finding other things to comfort us - it really is hard. If weight loss were easy, there'd be a lot less fat people. How can I be contemptous or disgusted with people who were just like me? I understand it's hard and not easy. If you had seen me at 200 lbs with my sad too tight jeans and limp hair, eatin my scone and grande venti caramel latte with whip, would you have been disgusted? I used to be afraid of that, that I was disgusting. At 200+ lbs, do you think people might find you disgusting (obviously, they can't see your current healthy choices), how would you feel, knowing someone thought you were gross.

Like Lori, I always want to reach out and help, but I understand that each person has their own timetable, you can't want it for them, you can't do it for them. And they have to be ready, themselves. It is a personal journey and it is deeply individual. So, yeah, I kind of fall on the side that you're kind of a bad person for finding fat people (including your own mother) disgusting. Hopefully, you can work on your feelings to accept them as people, everyone has faults. A fat person might have many faults, but sadly being fat is visible not hidden like so many human faults.

[Ashbee]

I know I'm going in a bit of a different direction than this discussion is in, but the one thing that really makes me mad is seeing morbidly overweight children. Not mad at the kids, but at their parents.

I wonder to they realize that they are causing lifelong eating/weight problems for their child and may very well be shortening their life span?

I agree with the others, though, I think you're more frustrated than disgusted. And thats okay.