I suppose that extra attention is part of the price of having an attractive body as men aren't going to change any time soon. I don't see this kind of behavior around the people I hang out with, but maybe the computer industry is nerdy enough that guys don't grope women.
As far as a practical solution goes, avoiding guys who are like this, avoiding make up and wearing not tight clothing would all reduce the amount of grope attempts.
Wow. It's like what I went through when I got fatter, except with guys who prefer larger women. To each his own or whatever, but I have to say, if a guy thinks he is being more open-minded because he dates fat girls, but he only dates fat girls (and is disrespectful of slender women, calling them 'skinny b****es' whether he actually knows them or not) because he likes the large body type better, that doesn't make him any less of a PIG than a man who exclusively dates tiny women.
Sorry went off on a rant there. Seriously, though, it all just goes to show that there is no happy medium and there will always be a judgement of some kind passed on our bodies, be it negative criticism or the assumption of um, receptivity, perhaps? IDK
And I adamantly disagree that you should intentionally make yourself less attractive by changing the way you dress or by foregoing makeup. Taking the time and personal effort to make yourself attractive is something that you should do for yourself, if you want to look nice and looking nice makes you happy. No one has any right to presume on your looking well-groomed and showing off the fruits of your hard work and effort in the way that suits you best.
As far as a practical solution goes, avoiding guys who are like this, avoiding make up and wearing not tight clothing would all reduce the amount of grope attempts.
Hard to avoid "guys like this" as they don't announce themselves ahead of time and quite frankly, there's just too darn many of em'. Staying home 24/7 to avoid them isn't quite a realistic option either.
And yes, we dress for ourselves, doesn't mean just because someone puts some care and effort into how they look, that it gives a man the right to make inappropriate comments/grope. What about men exercising some self-control?
I don't know, this kind of thinking reminds me of how when G-d forbid, a woman is raped and they try to blame it on the woman. As if somehow it's her fault. She "asked" for it.
i think we might also have to keep in mind that it's not just men who give unwanted attention. i have gotten plenty of that from women (both sexually and platonically) since i've lost weight.
i think we might also have to keep in mind that it's not just men who give unwanted attention. i have gotten plenty of that from women (both sexually and platonically) since i've lost weight.
I too have gotten attention from women since I've lost the weight. But never, ever did I feel physically threatened in any shape, manner or form.
As far as a practical solution goes, avoiding guys who are like this, avoiding make up and wearing not tight clothing would all reduce the amount of grope attempts.
You're assuming 1) women (and young girls) that this is happening to all dress that way and 2) that it makes a difference to some guys. It does not. I don't think I've worn a tank top in public since I was a kid, and I haven't worn a dress in over 15 years. In other words, my make-up is minimal and I tend to be on the low-maintenance side. I don't get this assumption that this is happening to women that go around looking and dressing like Pamela Anderson or something. It happens more often and to a lot more women than people might think and not cuz we look like calendar models.
Word, rockinrobin. Why don't some men just control themselves better or deal better with their own egos (or lack therof) so that they wouldn't feel the need to do stuff like this?
I don't know, this kind of thinking reminds me of how when G-d forbid, a woman is raped and they try to blame it on the woman. As if somehow it's her fault. She "asked" for it.
To clarify, I adamantly agree that nobody should have to change their appearance or company to reduce awkward sexual advances.
My argument was that doing so would reduce, on average, the number of gropes. trekkiegirl is the closest to a successful rebuttal, stating more or less that this is false, though a few assumptions are added that did not exist in my argument. Also, it would be nice to provide alternative suggestions.
I have found that changing my actions is a more effective solution than expecting everyone else to change. While guys should act differently, if you're unable to tell which ones are likely to act inappropriately beforehand, I believe that my suggestions would reduce the inappropriate behavior until they do change. Avoiding these guys entirely has the added benefit of giving them the hint that they should change their behavior.
rockinrobin, I can't tell if this is an association fallacy or ad hominem. My argument is not wrong because it reminds you of one that is.
The guys I am friends with do not do this, but they are mostly the nerdy type. Well there is that one guy, but he's an exception and it's totally obvious just from the way he looks and acts.
Are there any aspects of men that correlate with their willingness to act in this way? It could, for instance, be inversely related to level of education, but that's just a guess because I can't think of any PhDs off-hand that would do that.
I disagree with the the assertion that if I toned down my look that unwanted attention would cease. In fact, the most shocking behavior for me occurs when I least expect it- when my hair is gross and I'm in sweats.
Men are men. And some men are disrespectful. This has nothing to do with economic class or educational background. That's kind of like me saying that because you work in the IT field you must have poor social skills.
Now you're welcome to debate this into the ground (I get the impression that's really the only reason you're on this site), but most people do not come here to have formal debates. They come here for support.
