Weight Loss Support - Drink your water, or else!!! Please read this, very informative.




rockinrobin
12-11-2006, 04:40 PM
I was emailed this and some very other really interesting stuff by, gosh I don't think I'm allowed to say. So I'll just say that it's from a website that specializes in taking off weight. The article from which I got it was written by Raphael Calzadilla, B.A., CPT, ACE. The title was "8 secrets of fat loss". If I get around to it perhaps I'll type a different one every day. Here goes:

Water Intake - From the standpoint of water intake and fat loss, you want to be in a position where the liver is converting stored fat to energy. The liver has other functions, but this is one of its main jobs. Unfortunately, another of the liver's duties is to pick up the slack for the kidneys, which need plenty of water to work properly (more than most people realize).

If the kidneys are water-deprived, the liver has to do the work of the kidneys along with its own (lowering its total productivity in the process). the liver then can't metabolize fat as quickly or efficiently. If you allow this to happen, you're setting yourself up to store fat because you've made the liver less efficient at turning stored body fat to energy. Usually if you multiply.55 times your weight, that should be enough in ounces of water to suffice. Water is the under rated fat-loss tool.

Wow. I always knew it was important to drink water, but this is the first time I have ever seen this information. If you'll excuse me, I'm off to refill my glass of water.


Puncezilla
12-11-2006, 04:47 PM
I had no idea. I've been told sooooo many times to drink more (2 litres a day?)but I just cant drink this much! Something else I have to work on.
Thanks for the info!

http://www.3fatchicks.net/img/bar063/cartoonbear01/lb/230/145/230/.png (http://www.3fatchicks.com/weight-tracker/)

BlueToBlue
12-11-2006, 04:52 PM
Am I misunderstanding the calculation or is Calzadilla really suggesting we drink over half of our weight in water per day? That would be 65 pounds or 1038 ounces of water per day for me.


Luminous
12-11-2006, 04:58 PM
Usually if you multiply.55 times your weight, that should be enough in ounces of water to suffice.
I wonder how well that translates at higher weights. When I multiply my weight by .55, that tells me I'd need to drink 5 liters of water a day! I generally have no problem getting in 2 liters plus, but 5 I wonder about!

SlimLindy
12-11-2006, 04:58 PM
Barbara,

If I read this correctly, I think it is 0.55 X your weight. THEN take that number of OUNCES (not pounds) of water. So for you at 118 pounds, he suggests roughly 65 OUNCES of water. A little more do-able! :D

Lindy

Glory87
12-11-2006, 05:05 PM
I don't like to drink water that much and never made water a big goal during weight loss - didn't seem to have any detrimental effect (for me) - 72 lbs lost, 2 years maintenance. I drank a lot of herbal tea/regular tea and a glass of water with lunch and with dinner (and a glass of water if I worked out).

Zorak
12-11-2006, 05:08 PM
If your urine is clear, then you are well hydrated.

It's not the most polite indicator, but it's a lot more reliable than using a calculation since everyone's hydration needs are different.

Suzanne 3FC
12-11-2006, 05:24 PM
65 ounces for a 118 pound peson is do-able. But someone heavier than that (200 lb, 300 lb, etc) is also fine with 65 ounces, unless you are really thirsty :)


The subject of how much water we need has come up many times, and there seems to be a lot of controversy out there. We wrote an article on water last year and investigated what the biggest experts thought about this, since there are a lot of myths about how much water you need, and even what counts as water. The issue is to get plenty of fluids, which may not actually have to be water. Whole fruits and vegetables contain a lot of water, so that counts as well. The amount you need varies based on a lot of factors, including the climate you live in. Some experts believe you only need 5 glasses of water, or the equivalent in fluids per day. Most agree that 8 glasses is a good general goal since it's impossible to determine a specific amount.

The Institute of Medicine suggests that average women may consume approximately 90 ounces of fluid per day, slightly over 11 cups. Of this, 80% usually comes from water and other beverages, and the remaining 20% usually comes from food.

From Snopes : Kidney specialists do agree on one thing, however: that the 8-by-8 rule is a gross overestimate of any required minimum. To replace daily losses of water, an average-sized adult with healthy kidneys sitting in a temperate climate needs no more than one liter of fluid, according to Jurgen Schnermann, a kidney physiologist at the National Institutes of Health.

One liter is the equivalent of about four 8-ounce glasses. According to most estimates, that's roughly the amount of water most Americans get in solid food. In short, though doctors don't recommend it, many of us could cover our bare-minimum daily water needs without drinking anything during the day.



I've also read several places that the .55 calculation is a myth. Maybe this is one of those questions like how long is a piece of string :lol:

sotypical
12-11-2006, 05:25 PM
I drink 4-5L a day :)

rockinrobin
12-11-2006, 05:31 PM
I'm sure this is based on "a study" as far as the actual amount of water that is necessary. And I'm sure there are other studies that would say that number is a bit high, hopefully that's what they'd say. The thing that I thought really interesting was the water/kidney/liver/fat/energy conncection. Except for keeping one's self hydrated and full I didn't realize there was such an important fuction of water. Where's Dr. Oz? I bet he'd set us straight in no time.

healthytoad
12-11-2006, 06:12 PM
I know there are studies that go both ways (aren't there about everything? :) ) I go by my doctor. She's a bariatric specialist (not a surgeon, just specializes in weight loss.) She is on the board of bariatrics for the state, and has been in the "fat doctor" business for 15 years (my term not hers LOL) And she recommended for me 100 ounces.. which matches up with the .55 an ounce per lb of body weight. I can't always drink that much. I usually average 80-90 ounces. I know that I feel better if I get most of it in, and my skin has been looking great :)

Suzanne 3FC
12-11-2006, 06:47 PM
Where's Dr. Oz? I bet he'd set us straight in no time.

When he was on Oprah for his "You: the owner's manual" show (not the diet one) he said we only needed 5 glasses per day, mentioning that we get a lot of fluids from foods. However, he also said 8 glasses was optimal for good digestion.

Heather
12-11-2006, 07:18 PM
I'm sure this is based on "a study" as far as the actual amount of water that is necessary. And I'm sure there are other studies that would say that number is a bit high, hopefully that's what they'd say.

I'd love to see some of the research on the necessity for high levels of water consumption, but from what I've read this research doesn't really exist. The claims about drinking so much seem to be traced back to a number of sources (which may have been misquoted or taken out of context).

In fact, here's a link to a published study by researchers at Dartmouth which investigated whether there's any evidence for the claim that people need to drink 8, 8 ounce glasses of water a day. They didn't find it.

Here's the abstract:
Despite the seemingly ubiquitous admonition to "drink at least eight 8-oz glasses of water a day" (with an accompanying reminder that beverages containing caffeine and alcohol do not count), rigorous proof for this counsel appears to be lacking. This review sought to find the origin of this advice (called "8 × 8" for short) and to examine the scientific evidence, if any, that might support it. The search included not only electronic modes but also a cursory examination of the older literature that is not covered in electronic databases and, most importantly and fruitfully, extensive consultation with several nutritionists who specialize in the field of thirst and drinking fluids. No scientific studies were found in support of 8 × 8. Rather, surveys of food and fluid intake on thousands of adults of both genders, analyses of which have been published in peer-reviewed journals, strongly suggest that such large amounts are not needed because the surveyed persons were presumably healthy and certainly not overtly ill. This conclusion is supported by published studies showing that caffeinated drinks (and, to a lesser extent, mild alcoholic beverages like beer in moderation) may indeed be counted toward the daily total, as well as by the large body of published experiments that attest to the precision and effectiveness of the osmoregulatory system for maintaining water balance. It is to be emphasized that the conclusion is limited to healthy adults in a temperate climate leading a largely sedentary existence, precisely the population and conditions that the "at least" in 8 × 8 refers to. Equally to be emphasized, lest the message of this review be misconstrued, is the fact (based on published evidence) that large intakes of fluid, equal to and greater than 8 × 8, are advisable for the treatment or prevention of some diseases and certainly are called for under special circumstances, such as vigorous work and exercise, especially in hot climates. Since it is difficult or impossible to prove a negativein this instance, the absence of scientific literature supporting the 8 × 8 recommendation the author invites communications from readers who are aware of pertinent publications.

Here's the link to the full article, for those who want more details: http://ajpregu.physiology.org/cgi/content/full/283/5/R993

The article includes sections on benefits and risks of high water consumption, as well as some myths about water consumption (including one on dark urine = dehydration).

I'm not anti-water -- far from it -- water certainly IS important. But I am very interested in where these ideas came from and what support there is for them. For example, the idea that caffeinated beverages don't count may not have a lot of support...

rockinrobin
12-11-2006, 08:19 PM
It really is very confusing, there are so many conflicting views out there. Who is one to believe? I have always been a big water drinker and since I started my weightloss I have made sure that that continues, even a bit more, but not the amount that this guy says I should. I am quite pleased (so far) with the rate of my weightloss so I won't be making any changes. Now that I think about it, I wonder if there is a thing as drinking TOO much water? Well according to a study.............

Heather
12-11-2006, 08:25 PM
It really is very confusing, there are so many conflicting views out there. Who is one to believe? I have always been a big water drinker and since I started my weightloss I have made sure that that continues, even a bit more, but not the amount that this guy says I should. I am quite pleased (so far) with the rate of my weightloss so I won't be making any changes. Now that I think about it, I wonder if there is a thing as drinking TOO much water? Well according to a study.............

Bottom line, I think if you're satisfied with how you're doing, then you're all set!!

My own take on it is that I don't worry about my water intake too much as a general rule. I drink a fair amount of beverages, and know I get a lot from my food. I do make sure to hydrate when I exercise (during and after). But I don't carry a water bottle around every day. If you do, then that's what you do, and that's fine too. But if we don't, I don't think we need to feel guilty about it. Anyway, that's my ... oh, by now it's probably a nickel's worth from me! :)

Jasmine31
12-11-2006, 10:57 PM
I think water is very important.

Glory I have also heard that drinking tea, (green tea) is just as hydrating as water. SO I am doing alot of that now. Maybe that is how you were getting hydrated as well as your food? :D

Sunnigummi
12-12-2006, 10:10 AM
I'd love to see some of the research on the necessity for high levels of water consumption, but from what I've read this research doesn't really exist. Despite the seemingly ubiquitous admonition to "drink at least eight 8-oz glasses of water a day" ...recommendation the author invites communications from readers who are aware of pertinent publications.

Here's the link to the full article, for those who want more details: http://ajpregu.physiology.org/cgi/content/full/283/5/R993


Go AJP!! I'm in the physiology dept and I doubted his or her reasoning behind the water intake. The kidneys filter blood. Increasing your water intake by that much increases blood pressure, which just increases the rate at which the kidneys filter blood. I can't even think of a way the liver can do the kidneys function. I've heard of redundant genes, where two genes can have the same function so if one isn't working right, the other can serve as backup; however, that does not (to my knowledge) work with major organs in the body. The kidneys have specialized structures called Nephrons that do the whole urine production, toxin ridding function. There's nothing similar in the liver cells. They're responsible for detox but for different compounds. Even if they DID generate urine, what's the connection between the liver and the kidneys/bladder? The blood??? I think not.

Heather
12-12-2006, 10:25 AM
Sunnigummi-- Thanks for that information! Very helpful -- I didn't make the connection between kidney and liver functions and the specialization. I am woefully ignorant of how my body works sometimes!

Jasmine -- Green tea is supposed to have a number of benefits (as is black tea), including heart health, helping prevent cancers or strokes, as well as an anti-inflammatory, anticavity tool. Some of these benefits may come from caffeinated tea. [this info came from "Superfoods Rx" by Dr. Steven Pratt and Kathy Matthews]

Now, if you listen to the people who say that caffeinated beverages don't count as water because of their diuretic effect and switched to decaf, you may not be getting all the benefits of your green tea. But, it seems that these diuretic effects may have been exaggerated... therefore, caffeinated green (or black) tea is an excellent way to stay hydrated and reap many other benefits too!

JayEll
12-12-2006, 10:29 AM
I never liked to drink water, never thought about it much, until I began experiencing kidney stones. My urologist told me that by definition, people who develop kidney stones do not drink enough water. Now I have to get those 8 to 10 glasses of water in every day. This is an M.D urologist, not a nutritionist, and I bet he knows something about it. He also told me that water means water.

Anything with caffeine acts like a diuretic and can dehydrate you. Anything with alcohol does the same thing.

An 8-oz. glass of water is not that much--it's not a tall glass, and it's certainly not as much as you would get in even a small size drink at a convenience store.

I try to drink a glass of water every hour while I'm up and about, and usually that comes out about right because I sometimes forget.

Works for me!

Jay

rockinrobin
12-12-2006, 10:43 AM
Yes, I can definitely understand the connection between water and the kidneys, but I did think that the liver/kidney connection was odd.

So Sunnigummi are you saying that you don't see the liver/kidney connection at all? That this guy was totally full of it? And if so how does he get away with it? He is working for a reputable, successful organization.

Sunnigummi
12-12-2006, 12:15 PM
Rockin' - Without seeing the data that he gathered to come to such a conclusion, I have no idea what he's talking about. I looked up the liver in my physio text book and this is what it says:

Metabolic Functions of the Liver:
Carb Metabolism, Protein Metabolism, Fat Metabolism

Miscellaneous Functions of the Liver:
Storage Site of Vitamins
Storage of Iron (used as Ferratin - hemoglobin in the blood)
Formation of a large proportion of Blood Substances used in Coagulation
Removal/Excretion of drugs, hormones and other substances - this includes stuff like hormones that make it to the liver to be altered into their active state or broken down so they can be excreted. Also includes calcium, breakdown of sulfonamindes, penicillin etc.

Of course, the phrases listed above are headings in the text, but I read the passages and there's nothing connecting it to the kidney or ANYTHING to do with kidney function.

I really don't want to make this a long post, but I'll post Functions of the kidney from the same text (source posted below):
Excretion of Metabolic waste (only thing shared by liver)
Regulation of Water and Electrolyte Balance
Regulation of Arterial (blood) pressure.
Regulation of Acid-Base balance
Regulation of Erythrocyte (red blood cell) production
Regulation of Vit D production
Glucose Synthesis

Source: Guyton and Hall, Textbook of Medical Physiology, 10th Edition.
Anyone who has access to the book and time, feel free to correct me on any of this. There's a chance I misunderstood. :)

jillybean720
12-12-2006, 12:46 PM
Anything with caffeine acts like a diuretic and can dehydrate you.
I've read many newer studies recently that say the amount of caffeine found in a typical beverage is usually not even enough to negate the amount of water in that beverage (I'd be wary of things like Red Bull or whatever other funky "energy" drinks are out ther, but this is generally in reference to diet sodas, teas, etc.). In other words, the amount of water that the caffeine takes out of you is less than the amount of water in the beverage, so you still end up with aome hydration (not dehydration) from caffeinated beverages.

I drink a lot of plain water because, well, what could it hurt? It promotes clear skin, shiny hair, and a host of other physical benefits. Plus, I get closer to my 10,000 steps a day when I have to go to the restroom 20 times ;)

ennay
12-12-2006, 02:04 PM
I think the liver/kidney connection is that both organ do filter waste from blood..having one break down may inhibit the other...doubt if MILD dehydration will cause major metabolic breakdown

but i do feel better when i drink my h2o.

cbmare
12-12-2006, 02:06 PM
Plus, I get closer to my 10,000 steps a day when I have to go to the restroom 20 times ;)

BWAHAHAHA! That's the way I'm going to have to think of it!

I've always consumed a lot of water. In fact, when I have to cut back because of travel (car or airplane), I can feel the difference.

My late husband's heart doctor advised him to take potassium because of the loss of electrolytes. Granted, he was on a diuretic and I'm not, but I try to eat something each day that will replace them. I just wish the bananas I get were as tasty as the ones from Hawaii.

Do you use a pedometer to count your steps? If so, please tell me about it. I'm considering one.

Heather
12-12-2006, 03:15 PM
I've read many newer studies recently that say the amount of caffeine found in a typical beverage is usually not even enough to negate the amount of water in that beverage (I'd be wary of things like Red Bull or whatever other funky "energy" drinks are out ther, but this is generally in reference to diet sodas, teas, etc.). In other words, the amount of water that the caffeine takes out of you is less than the amount of water in the beverage, so you still end up with aome hydration (not dehydration) from caffeinated beverages.

Jill -- thanks for clarifying -- that's exactly the kind of thing I've been reading too. The recent evidence is that these caffeinated beverages are not as dehydrating as first thought.

rockinrobin
12-12-2006, 03:22 PM
Sunnigummi and everybody else thanks for your replies. Sunnigummi you really didn't have to drive yourself crazy with looking up all that stuff, but I do indeed appreciate it.

The bottom line for me and me only is nothing is going to change, I was a big water drinker before I read this guys article and I'll remain a big water after. Although I am curious if what he says is true or not. But I will not dwell on it. I will continue to take everything I read as fact with many grains of salt. Thank you again everybody. I didn't mean to drive everybody nuts. Sorry.

RowdyBliss
12-12-2006, 03:52 PM
Rockinrobin, I don't think you should be sorry - this is a great thing to talk about!

I drink a lot of water, even more so now... but I drink it because it also helps me feel fuller throughout the course of the day. When I'm diligent with my water, I don't get the afternoon munchies like I used to when all I drank was coffee all day!

Plus - I don't know about you all here, but when I work out, I sweat. Not to be gross, but I really, really sweat. And I work out a lot! Hydration is important if you are including regular exercise in your life, and so it's an even better reason to drink water throughout the course of your day.

rockinrobin
12-12-2006, 04:26 PM
Yes, Rowdy I was aware of all those factors, it was the liver connection that I found to be fascinating. And if it doesn't really exist then.......... The next time I am at my doctor I am definitely going to ask her if she's heard of this. But like I said, nothing will change for me.

Heather
12-12-2006, 10:09 PM
robin -- I agree -- don't be sorry you brought it up. I learn so much from the issues people raise on these forums.

PerthChick
12-12-2006, 11:34 PM
I live in a hot, dry climate - summer has just begun in Australia, and where I live, the temperature will average about 35C (97F) for the next four months. It's also pretty dry and windy here - and I find that if I don't drink at least 8 glasses of water a day I start to feel lethargic and sometimes sick.

Whether it's important for weight loss or not, I don't know. I've read a lot of different opinions in here, and seen a lot of research cited, but for me it comes down to how I instinctively know I feel healthier when I drink enough water.

In climates like this you can't always tell if you are hydrated enough by how many times you go to the toilet, or the colour of your urine. On a hot day, I can drink four or five glasses of water and not go to the toilet for hours it sweats itself out even when you are sitting.

The point of my rambling is this: no research, no matter how well meaning, can take into account all the individual factors that leave you hydrated enough or not. Things like climate, high-salt meals, processed food, body size, amount of physical activity, and your own cellular responses at work are just some of the things that will affect what your body does with its fluid.

I think everyone's opinion is important, and contributes to the debate about this issue. I also think that if we pay attention to our own body it will probably tell us what it needs.

:-)
Ani

Heather
12-13-2006, 10:11 AM
Ani -- I agree with you completely! Thanks for saying that!

I post a lot in reference to the water question not to dissuade people who want to drink water from drinking, but to help those who feel they are trying to force down water they don't want to drink.

There are so many things to think about wrt health and weight loss. Some of us find it easy to do some things. For example, it's easy for me to eat breakfast in the mornings. So, following that prescriptive advice works for me.

I've never been a huge water drinker. Don't get me wrong, I probably drink 4 glasses of "straight" water a day, so I don't abstain. But I just don't like the feeling that I am being forced to drink tons of water (and only water), when there are other ways I would prefer to hydrate, such as drinking coffee (2 cups a day), green tea, some diet soda, as well as the foods I eat.

I see a lot of people on these boards who feel like they are failures because they don't drink over 100 oz of pure water each day. And I guess my posts are mostly for them. To show that there isn't a lot of scientific consensus that we need so much pure water, and that there are lots of ways to remain hydrated apart from water.

One problem with posting on this topic, however, is that there are lots of people who find lots of benefits in drinking water who feel that their water drinking is being attacked. Another problem is that people may think I'm saying keeping hydrated isn't important. That's not what I'm trying to do.

Sunnigummi
12-13-2006, 10:23 AM
Rockin': Didn't mean for my post to sound aggressive. If it did, I'm sorry! I had fun looking it up because I'm a geek. :) ;) Also, I'm with everyone else who said it was fun discussing this issue and you shouldn't be sorry! It got me thinking, this is a good thing... :)

I agree that one should drink as much water as is necessary to get through the day. For example, I can't drink more than 1.5 liters a day, otherwise I would be in the bathroom peeing it all out. For those who can, yay! For those who can't, also yay! It's the difference between can't and WON'T that matters. If you're not drinking a lot of water but you're not exhibiting symptoms of dehydration, there's no problem, is there?

rockinrobin
12-13-2006, 11:12 AM
No need for anyone to apologize. When I read something I take it into consideration and then do what I feel is best for me. And I think and certainly hope that that's what everyone else does. I never, ever take anyone's opinion as fact, especially some guy from ediets. My interest was piqued because it was information that I was unaware of. Did I check the validity of it? No. I have never claimed to be an expert in the field of weightloss or anything else for that matter. It interested me and I thought it might interest others as well. It was just something to throw around. I don't think anyone's opinion on the amount of water to drink is wrong, it is as individual as we are. Again, I hope everyone will choose what's best for them. I

healthytoad
12-13-2006, 11:33 AM
Everyone just simmer down...no need to let tempers boil over or get steamed up over this topic...I'm sure we can all build a bridge over our troubled waters and not rock the boat while we head out to the calm seas of understanding.

*ducking*

JayEll
12-13-2006, 04:30 PM
LOL ejm!!!!!!!:D