Living Maintenance general maintenance topics and discussions

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Old 06-06-2006, 04:48 PM   #1  
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Default "You're not eating enough"

I've seen this statement a lot lately, in all of the forums that I frequent and in particular the bodybuilding sites. It seems like popular opinion is that women should be eating more and maintaining at a higher caloric level. I've heard "damaged metabolism" thrown around quite a bit as well. They say that chronic dieters should try to eat at what should be your maintenance level for a while even if you gain weight - that eventually it will repair your metabolism. What do you guys think of this theory? What would happen if you increased your calories to the maintenance formula numbers (14/15/16 x body weight)? Do any of you actually maintain at those numbers?
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Old 06-06-2006, 04:53 PM   #2  
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All I know is if I ate 3000 calories a day I'd GAIN TONS of weight... not maintain.
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Old 06-06-2006, 05:18 PM   #3  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ValRock
All I know is if I ate 3000 calories a day I'd GAIN TONS of weight... not maintain.
It depends. Muscle is metabolically active. If I had a lot of muscle mass (each lb takes up to 30 calories a day to maintain) and exerted myself physically everyday, I could see needing 3000 calories a day to maintain. As it is, muscle-free and exercise-free as I tend to be, I maintain around 2000 calories a day. But yeah, right now I personally would gain on 3K a day, that doesn't mean there isn't a woman out there that needs 3K a day.

I much prefer eating MORE to eating less. More calories means more opportunities to eat more beneficial healthy food (like salmon, sweet potato, quinoa, avocado, olive oil, etc etc). Plus, eating is pleasurable and makes me happy.
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Old 06-06-2006, 05:48 PM   #4  
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Let's see, 14 - 16 times bodyweight would put me right about 1960 - 2240 calories per day. Would I maintain at those levels?



In reality, my maintenance calories are around 1600 with about 90 minutes of daily exercise. Every calculator in the world says I should be able to eat more and still maintain, but it just doesn't work that way for me. I've tracked my calories for five years now and know exactly how my body responds to more calories ... I gain fat. Fewer calories ... I lose fat.

Ginny, I read that stuff too and just roll my eyes. I'm not disputing that it may be true for some people but it sure isn't for me. Heaven knows I'd love to be able to eat more and maintain - it's not like I've got some kind of eating disorder and am deliberately denying myself food. But, not surprisingly, I gain when I eat over MY personal maintenance calories (not some calculator's).

As to why - and this gets to the whole 'damaged metabolism' notion - oh yes, our metabolisms are affected by weight loss. It's not the result of losing weight too fast, with too low of calories, or some other 'wrong way'. Nope, it happens to everyone who's lost a significant amount of weight. I wrote about it here and have been reading vociferously since then. Losing weight in and of itself puts our bodies into a fat preservation mode. Our bodies want to be back at their old weights, so biochemical signals are sent out to make us want to eat more and make our metabolisms slow down (specifically, the amount of energy (calories) that we burn in activity is reduced by 15-20% as compared to a never obese individual).

This metabolic slowdown is permanent and can't be reversed by eating more. Several clinical trials are underway to try to counter the effects of lowered leptin levels in the reduced obese (that's us) to see if the metabolic slowdown can be reversed with leptin injections and other hormones. I'm not aware of any science behind the notion of eating more to 'repair a damaged metabolism' - rather, I'd categorize it as just another gym urban legend.

I believe this is an important piece of the puzzle about why 95% of dieters regain their lost weight. Obviously it's more than people just losing focus or willpower. Our bodies are sending out powerful hormonal and biochemical signals to try to return to the status quo (our fat weights). In a sense, we're fighting nature when we try to maintain a significant weight loss. That's why I so firmly believe that we always need to be vigilant and thoughtful about our eating and exercise if we're going to outsmart Mother Nature. Eating more than our unique bodies require and relying on internal cues (intuitive eating) are a recipe for disaster, in my humble opinion. I wonder how many of the people who pontificate about 'healing metabolisms' by 'eating more' were ever obese?

Get ready, I'm going to climb on my soapbox here because I passionately believe what I'm about to say next -

We're different. We who have lost a lot of weight are different than others who never were overweight (even if they're our age, height, weight, gender etc.) We think differently, our bodies are different, and our metabolisms are different. If we want to be part of that 5% who maintain their weight losses, we have to be aware and accept the fact that we're part of a very small and special club that has different rules for eating, exercising, and living. Maintenance is harder than losing ... but it is possible ... and so, so worth every bit of effort and thought that it takes.

Off my soapbox.
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Old 06-06-2006, 08:02 PM   #5  
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I'm going to climb up on the soapbox with Meg. There's nothing that I need to add to what she said. I maintain on 1600 cals/day with 60-90 minutes of (hard) exercise six days per week. Any more food or less exercise than that and goodbye thin jeans. I know this from 5 years experience, and one or two mistakes. I'm always feeling hunger, but I know that in my body (within reason) that those signals are broken and cannot be trusted. The only thing that I can trust is calories in/calories out. I do believe that our (formerly obese people) bodies are different. I look at it as if I had type II diabetes, and I eat accordingly just like those with diabetes. It's a health issue. Maintenence in my mind is *way* harder than losing! I wouldn't trade it for anything though. : ))
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Old 06-06-2006, 08:51 PM   #6  
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I think what you guys are saying might be true *only* for people who used to be obese, not just overweight. My highest weight ever was 170 (borderline obese, but still on the "overweight" category) and I maintain at 1950-2000. And that's with not much formal exercise, if any. My weight times 14 equals 1988. Times 16 would be 2272, and I'm sure I'd gain there.
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Old 06-06-2006, 09:46 PM   #7  
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We all maintain with different calorie levels. There are many factors including your weight history, age, gender, maintenance weight, body composition and activity level. Plus any underlying genetic tendencies on top of all that. And things yet to be discovered, hormonal profiles, who knows. The important thing to be aware of is that a maintenance calorie calculator may or may not work for any one of us and the only way to be sure is to track your intake and find the point at which you don't gain. It takes some trial and error, but it is SO worth doing.

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Old 06-08-2006, 10:39 AM   #8  
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This is really starting to bug me. Here's a perfect example from the Oxygen forum:

Originally Posted by toadiegirl
Hi everyone,
A little over 2 months ago, I decided to start the South Beach diet. Since I started, I have lost close to 20 pounds. I am very happy. I am 5'10, and started at 188 pounds. Now, for about 3 weeks, I have been weighing the same. I have limited my "cheats" to once a week, and they are usually like rice cake chips or something like that. I don't eat bread, pasta or rice anymore. I am wondering why I haven't lost more (which I think I have about 15 more pounds to go) if I have been so good. Do you think it is just that I need to incorporate more cardio/weights, or should I modify what I am eating. Here is a typical day for me:
Breakfast: oatmeal pancake, small glass of 1% milk and/or veggie drink
Snack: turkey pepperoni, almonds
Lunch: chicken or tuna, spinach salad with light dressing, chick peas
snack: cottage cheese, cherry tomatoes:
Dinner: fish, "faux mashed potatoes south beach style" (i.e. mashed cauliflower.)
Dessert: fat-free, sugar free popsicles, fudgessicles or pudding (not necessarily every day).

Now it is not necessarily my goal to be in fitness model condition, but I would like to have less fat around my abdomen and thighs...which did decrease significantly though.

I appreciate any help!


Here is the reply:


You're not eating enough.



That's it!! No explaination or anything. The poster goes back and adds it up - its 2200 calories! She's not even at a deficit! I want to smack these guys - they are so not helping (and yes, it was a guy).
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Old 06-08-2006, 10:53 AM   #9  
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2200 calories and eat MORE?!

Ginny, for some reason there now seems to be a knee-jerk reaction to tell people to eat MORE when they're not losing weight. Even if they're eating over most people's maintenance calories! (like your example) I just don't get it, since the only way to get rid of stored fat is to create a calorie deficit by eating LESS than what your body burns.

Certainly some people undereat and would benefit from adding in more calories, but those are folks at the bottom of the calorie spectrum, not the top! IMO, most of the time when people's weight loss stalls, it's because 1) they're eating too many calories, 2) they're not tracking accurately, or 3) they need to up their exercise amount and/or intensity.
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Old 06-08-2006, 02:25 PM   #10  
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Ditto everything Meg said. The only time my weightloss stalled from not eating enough was when I ate a strict 700 calorie diet in my early twenties and ran 50-70 miles per week. So maybe that damaged my metabolism, but years of eating a whole lot more sure didn't "heal" it, I just got fat.

I maintain on about 1500-1600 calories with 60-90 minutes of exercise 6 days a week. I'm packed with muscle. I'm also 51 and post-menopausal .

The only real annoyance about this is that I'm physically VERY hungry at my maintenance level. I DON'T want to be fatter, but my body chemistry does.

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Old 06-08-2006, 02:53 PM   #11  
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My maintenance calories turned out to be my weight x 14, roughly 1900 calories. That's with an hour or two of exercise a day though. Everybody is different. I too think that "you're not eating enough" is thrown around much more than it is warranted.
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Old 06-26-2006, 01:09 PM   #12  
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While I think that "you're not eating enough" is probably said more than necessary (like in the above example when the poster was eating plenty), sometimes it is true. When I was losing, upping my calories from 1200 to 1600 made a huge difference. At 1200, I hit long plateaus and couldn't lose very quickly. At 1600, I was losing a pound a week. Nowadays I maintain at around 1900-2000 (estimate, I don't really count anymore unless I have a backslide).

I don't have any opinions about "damaged metabolism" or anything like that, but I just wanted to point out that for some people, eating more really does help. I wouldn't be surprised if there is a metabolic difference between people who have lost a huge amount of weight (like the amazing ladies on here who have lost over 100lbs), but I don't know that that is necessarily the case for those of us who were borderline obese or merely overweight.

We are all different, like everyone says. Sometimes, "you're not eating enough" is true. Sometimes it's not. Some people maintain on 1200 and some maintain on 2200. I would be interested in seeing the effects of age on maintenance calories -- I get the impression from various posts that if you are younger you might maintain on more calories than someone older.
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Old 06-27-2006, 05:56 PM   #13  
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Meg and Ladies,

I just went back and read what Meg wrote about the reduced obese and our need for fewer calories. Thank you for posting that, Meg! It explains why I can't eat more than something like 1350 calories (exact number has yet to be determined) and why all those calorie-burning calculators seem to be so far off! Someone was wondering how much overweight you'd have to be to be affected by this phenomenon - I can tell you that 40-50 pounds, in my case, certainly did the trick.

Understanding this will help me gear up for the battle ahead. I've been under 130 for about 8 or 9 months, and hovering around my goal for quite a while. But it doesn't take much for the scale to jump up. I continue to keep a record of everything I eat and count calories every day, have been for 17 months, and don't see myself ever stopping. It gives me control.

Seeing that some of you exercise for 60-90 minutes tells me that my 45 may not be enough. I'm going to add more exercise. And step it up with the weights. It's clear that I have a choice, to do what it takes to maintain, or eat and gain back my weight. Eating 2000 calories a day is NOT one of my choices. That's okay. I can live with that, but I can't live with all the extra weight.

Thanks for the truly excellent information.

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Old 06-28-2006, 08:37 PM   #14  
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Thanks for some more pearls to add to that strand of wisdom, Meg!!

I have read some of Meg's previous posts on this subject of the reduced obese and lemme tell ya that it seems to me to be right on target. It sucks that we will forever basically get to eat less than "normal" people, especially with most of our histories with food, but..... there you have it, that is just the way it is.
But anyway, I LIKE the idea of being part of an exclusive club (even though I wish that many, many more could be members)!!!
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Old 06-28-2006, 08:49 PM   #15  
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I kinda like our little club too, Charlotte. It's the only group of people in the whole world that understands all of our issues. And maybe, just maybe we here at 3FC are helping the group get just a little bit bigger?

(wait a sec - that doesn't sound right! We're trying to get smaller, not bigger!! )
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