WW Clubs and Groups - Turtle Club #34

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Lauren H
08-10-2001, 11:18 AM
Here's Lin's intro:

Hi, Turtle Buddies,

Here it is - my "official" version of the fable:

The Hare and the Tortoise

A hare met a tortoise one day and made fun of him for the slow and clumsy way in which he walked.

The tortoise laughed and said, "I will run a race with you any time that you choose."

"Very well," replied the hare, "we will start at once."

The tortoise immediately set off in his slow and steady way without waiting a moment or looking back. The hare, on the other hand, treated the matter as a joke and decided to take a little nap before starting, for she thought that it would be an easy matter to overtake her rival.

The tortoise plodded on, and meanwhile the hare overslept herself, with the result that she arrived at the winning-post only to see that the tortoise had got in before her.

Moral: Slow and steady wins the race.

This comes from a book handed down from my grandmother to my mother to me. The book is so old it doesn't have a copyright date or an author/editor's credit.

That fable has been the motivation for us turtles for about two years. Someone on the ancient WW forum mentioned the fable and I discovered it was very motivational for me. I talked about it in posts and other people said that the tortoise philosophy worked for them, too. So, I started a thread for us turtle types.

We work toward accepting that our bodies have a natural speed of weight loss when we choose to live a healthy life, instead of "going on a diet". Many of us have experienced "the diets" as go on/lose weight-- go off/ gain the weight plus more back.

We choose to perservere with each choice we make throughout the day. We believe that choosing to be slow, steady turtles helps us to learn the skills we need to learn in order to not only lose the weight, but keep it off and become the healthiest people we can be.

So, welcome to all who realize that losing and maintaining a weight loss is a lifestyle change. And who want support as we all learn the skills we need to successfully make the changes that will allow us to reach our goals.

--Lin (courtesy of Lauren)

Lauren H
08-10-2001, 11:26 AM
Hi, all. The last thread was getting long, so I started a new one.

The heat finally broke here -- glory hallelujah. It will be nice to be able to sit on the front porch again. (My favorite "room" in the house during every season but winter.)

How's everyone doing? I've been journaling, drinking the water, taking vitamins, and exercising. Just did a new Richard Simmons tape today ("Sweating to the Oldies #2") -- didn't realize it was 63 minutes long! The aerobic part was very easy (too easy), but the strength training part wasn't. I definitely like aerobics better than strength training, but I need to do both.

For those of you who aren't familiar with Richard's videos, at the end each participant dances forward, and you get to see their name and how much weight they've lost. He always has people who've lost no weight, a little weight, and a lot of weight. But this video took the cake. One guy lost a whopping 704 pounds!!!!! Incredible!

I'm doing something different right now, something that will set Lin's teeth on edge. :) I'm setting a weight-loss and time goal for me. I'm going to see if I find it motivating or debilitating. I've decided I want to get below 200 pounds for Christmas. That's about a pound a week. I've always hesitated to do this in the past, because I'm such a perfectionist -- if I don't make the entire goal, I feel like a failure. This time, I want to see if I can handle this differently. I want to see if this will motivate me, and if I will be pleased no matter what I lose by Christmas. (I'm doing this as part of a challenge over on the Lighten Up web site.)

DH's brother, sister-in-law, and two nephews (one nice, one not) arrive tonight for the weekend. Should be interesting.

Have a great Friday and weekend, everyone!

279/223/199 by Christmas

Lin S
08-10-2001, 11:27 PM
Hi, Turtles,

Thanks, Lauren, for starting a new thread. I've been offline for a few days. We went to San Jose one day and we've needed to keep the phone line free because Paul was working with a recruiter about a job. And they hired him. They called him this afternoon. It's a good job. It will be challenging because it's a little different equipment than he's worked on before. And the pay is a tiny bit more than he was making. The best part is that our management hadn't rented our place yet, so we can keep the apartment.

A lot of yucky stuff went on this week with my mother that I have to figure out how to deal with. I suspect spending some time with paper and pen next week when I've got some time alone will be the best prescription for doing that. I also have to work out dealing with having both of my sons move out this year.

Chris is still going to live with his friend because he really is out of place at the local high school. He needs decent art and drama classes and he doesn't need a vocational class that is essentially a "how to use the computer" class. This Silicon Valley raised kid could probably teach that class! He also doesn't need to be required to pass a local standardized test for graduation that he wasn't prepared for because he didn't go to school here long enough. Anyway, they will both benefit by the way their lives are going and I'm grateful for that. I just need to deal with the emotions this has brought out in me.

In any case, within the space of 30 seconds, about the time it took to figure out that the guy called to offer my dh that job, all of the depression went away. Now I feel totally sure that I can deal with everything else in my life, one step at a time. :cool:

Kathy, as happy as we are about this local job, I know that I've always hoped to be able to move to wine country or the Northern CA coast (the Gualala area or Bodega Bay) someday. I still hope we can work that out eventually. If we do and you're still up there, we'll definitely get together.

Congratulations on that .4 down! Great job! Hope your trip to Reno was fun.

Lauren, I'm sorry to hear that you've been having such a difficult time with food. But I'm glad to hear your exercise is going so well. Do you think that you may be up a bit due to increased muscle tissue? BTW-you can increase the aerobic part of the RS tapes by altering the way you do the exercises. I also wonder if since you've increased your exercise level, maybe instead of lowering the points, you ought to eat some of the activity points. I'm wondering if perhaps you're not losing because you're not eating enough? Something to think about and maybe experiment with.

As far as the weight/time goal goes, my only objection to doing that is that you can't control the outcome. I think it's OK if you use the time as a guideline to shoot for, but adjust it if necessary. One of the main problems I've seen over the years I've been posting is that often I see people posting unrealistic goals, getting discouraged, then stopping all of their efforts. You don't approach things that way. You tend to be a lot more thoughtful in the choices you make, so keep us posted on how this type of goal-setting goes for you.

Kimmers, so good to hear from you whenever you can post. I love the idea of a turtle necklace. If I ever get to my weight loss goal and can scrape together the money, I want to design one and have it made from green jade. Doesn't that sound cool? It's a secret dream/wish of mine.

I'm sorry that you won't be able to attend meetings while you are pregnant. What I would do is to let my doctor monitor my weight, so I don't get crazy with the scale at home, and let the turtles and other healthy threads be my meeting.

Judy, congratulations on losing that 1.2# this week. Great job! Thank you for posting the meeting topics for us. They always give us (pardon the cliche) food for thought, and that kind doesn't make us fat!

Well, this is long enough. I'm still praying for Mousie's dh and his job situation. I hope everyone else is doing great.

Happy turtlin'! :D


08-11-2001, 12:16 AM
I am so relieved that your dh got a job. Our prayers have been answered. Thank goodness. This is such great news. You'll work out the business with your mother by using paper and pen, but for now it's great that you and your dh and boys have turned another corner in your lives together. I feel sorry for the separation you'll have with your boys , but it's well thought out and for their best. Here's a hug.....

I think it's great to set a realistic goal and work toward it. That was what I thought I had done as I was approaching 200 pounds. Somehow I got off track and now I'm back on again. So I am joining you in goal-setting. I am aiming to get under 200 pounds by November 1st. That's about ten pounds in about fifteen weeks. I can do that, especially if I beef up the exercise.
I am still doing the Wendie's Plan. I find the low point days difficult because I obsess over them and unconsciously think of food all day. So now I think I'll use my menu plans for those days and fill in with zero point foods if I need them. Tomorrow is my very high point day of the week and that's always fun. I am determined to get rid of this excess weight. I've dipped in the pool every day and done a little swimming in this brutal heat. The weather is changing overnight, so that will help.
Gotta run--just logged in late and saw Lin's great news, so I thought I'd write.

08-11-2001, 12:55 AM
WOO WOO WOO WOO WOO! YAY FOR LIN'S HUSBAND! My goodness, Lin, I'm in your same situation, I know what it's like, I can't WAIT for that same phone call! It must be just magical when that weight finally lifts. :) YAY!!! (Send some good vibes my way!)

And I just LOVE the name Claire, so classic. :) Claire and Stella, like that one too. And Molly...okay, I'm wandering...

Hubby's calling me, gotta run.

08-11-2001, 09:25 AM
Good vibes and prayers for you and your dh. I hope a job comes to him soon.
Glad you like the name Claire. She's such a cutie!

Lauren H
08-13-2001, 11:46 AM
Hooray!!! I'm so glad to hear your DH got a job at last, Lin. And for better money, too. Thank God. I can imagine that having an "empty nest" will be a major adjustment after so many years. I'll look forward to seeing how you triumph in this next phase of your life.

Mousie, sending good thoughts your way, too.

Judy, 10 pounds in 15 weeks sounds eminently do-able. This will be exciting! I'm finding I'm making better choices lately, thinking to myself "199 by Christmas, 199 by Christmas." I'm truly tired of staying this same weight, give or take five pounds. Time to GET IT OFF.

Lin, it's possible that I'm building muscle and that that's slowing down the scale, but my measurements haven't changed the way they did earlier this year when I was really building muscle. I haven't been doing much strength training since I hurt the arm, and that's where I really see results with the tape measure. I am indeed eating my exercise points, and I'm thinking now that maybe I'd better cut back. But the main reason I haven't lost much weight is that I'm still eating too much, especially too many sweets and refined carbs. I've been working on upping the protein lately.

Thanks for the suggestions for upping the aerobic impact of the Richard Simmons tapes. I tried another new one this morning -- "Dance Your Pants Off" -- and that one was more demanding. And fun, too! I really enjoyed it. Great tunes.

Have a great Monday, everyone!

279/223/199 by Christmas

Lin S
08-13-2001, 02:56 PM
Hi, Turtles,

Thanks for all the good wishes. Here's sending them back to you and your dh, Mousie. I hope you get that great phone call soon, too.

Judy, maybe you could work the Wendie plan a little differently to help you deal with the lower point days. Maybe make the low point days a little higher, like one or two points, so they're still low, just not quite so super low. Take those one or two points from the high point day. You'd still be eating at various point levels every day, but maybe you'd not be quite as hungry and food obssessed on the low point days. Good luck!

Lauren, my dh is the best about the empty nest thing. He is encouraging me to explore the possibility of getting the funds and heading to NY to get a culinary degree even though it will most likely mean being apart while I'm attending classes. He knows how unhappy I will be if I can't find something productive to do with myself besides hanging out here in the apartment. His first choice is for him to find a job in NY and move with me, but he's willing to stay here and let me go, if he can't find one. The thing is that rents are about half what they are here, so he doesn't have to make as much money. The problem is that there are almost no companies with opportunites in his field in that area. But, we'll start looking if I can put together a financial aid package and get accepted into the program. So, that's half of the plan.

The other half is to help Chris get into and pay for art school. He may end up doing two years at a community college in San Jose that has a fantastic conputer graphic arts program, then transfer to San Francisco to finish up the BA. The problem is getting the funds to cover living expenses in San Francisco. There are a lot of scholarships that cover tuition, but finding money for books, lab fees, art supplies, and living expenses is what's tough. And we can't afford to move close enough for him to go to school in SF and live with us. (Or even just live with Paul while I'm in NY, if that works out.) It's all getting complicated, but I'd prefer working that stuff out to just sitting at home being bored or taking a low-paying, boring job to earn some extra money. I need to be able to earn enough to live on if the unthinkable happens and I'm alone.

I'm glad that you're working out what you need to do to reach your Christmas goal. It will be hard to let go of those sweets and refined flour products once the holiday season hits, so I applaud your efforts to do so. I was thinking about the RS tapes and the aerobic stuff. The main thing I would do is to doubletime the exercises. Do two for each beat instead of one. That way you can increase the workout without increasing the impact, as you would if you jumped instead of walked, for example.

My main goal right now is to focus more on exercise and getting in shape. I also want to get back to eating mini meals and those extra veggies I used to eat by adding soups, salads, and at least two veggies with (or in) my main course. I'm not focusing on losing pounds right now, just getting back to a healthy eating pattern and exercise. I can't do it all at once.

Have a great day, turtles. Happy turtlin'! :)


08-13-2001, 09:54 PM
Boy oh boy! I am impressed by us. Let's keep on doing this.
Judy 234/thinner:cool:

Lauren H
08-14-2001, 12:11 PM
Good morning, tortoise beings.

Aaah, bloat city today! PMS time, probably for the next WEEK. Ah, well. Nothing to do about it but ride it out.

Lin, that's great with slowly adding back different healthy steps. Very smart. That's admirable that you want to help Chris with his art school. My DH's folks left him completely on his own for all his advanced schooling. He managed to get a BS without big student loans, mostly by working while he went to school. But the medical school, on the other hand ... we'll be paying that off forever. He wasn't able to work while going to medical school (understandably!), so his loans had to cover his living expenses, too. He graduated with $130K in debt! Our loan payments are like mortgage payments. :(

I haven't given up sugar or refined flour completely. I'm just cutting back on it. You're right; that will be interesting during the holidays, not to mention during our vacation this fall.

Judy, you're right -- we are impressive, aren't we? :)

More layoff rumors milling around at my job. We've had seven layoffs so far this year, though the last one was small. We're due for a big one. They even cut back on bagel Tuesday; by the time I showed up, all the bagels were gone. I ended up with just fruit for breakfast today. (Probably not a bad thing.) Sure hope these economic times turn around soon.

Did the Donna-Mite workout today (with Donna Richardson). The choreography is a little difficult to figure out, and the camera keeps focusing on people's faces instead of feet, so it's taking me a long time to learn it. (This was probably my 7th or 8th time through, and I still haven't gotten it down.) But the music is great -- Motown! And it's a good intermediate workout, 53 minutes. I worked up a good sweat. I figure these days while I'm not on a project, I can roll into work later so I may as well do a longer workout in the mornings. Makes me feel so much better when I get in a good workout.

Ate light yesterday, which finally brought my points bank back to zero (I had been owing it almost 11 points at one point this week). I find at the end of the week, if I want to see a weight loss, I need to have banked some points that I don't use. Didn't happen this week, but I didn't get very serious until midway through the week.

Down 2# by my scales this morning, but my WW weigh-ins usually don't have any correlation to my morning weigh-in. So who knows what I'll see tonight. I'm encouraged, though, just because I'm eating better and exercising regularly.

Onward and downward,

274/218.5/199 (my scales)

Lauren H
08-15-2001, 11:51 AM
Hi again. I was down 1.6# last night at weigh-in, so that's good. I really like our leader; I hope she sticks around. (She says she's just a temp until they get someone permanent.) Last night she recommended that we check out different web sites, including Dotti's (and I mentioned this one) to carry us through between meetings. She also said -- and I love this -- that she wishes WW wouldn't weigh us every week because the scale is such a lousy indicator of how well we're doing.

Anyway. Today I arrived at work, and there has been another layoff. There will be yet another within the next two weeks, and I should be in that one. At this point, I hope I am. Apparently my alternative would be to stay with this awful company but spend all week on the road. Not a chance.

Hope everyone is doing well.

274/221.4/199 by Christmas

08-15-2001, 07:01 PM
Hi All,
I'm up at my son and daughter-in-law's house today to see baby Claire. I'm so lucky and she is so darling.
All goes well. I've had quite a few meals out this week. I feel the points are fine, but the salt's not. To get up here we left before WI, so I'll stretch it to next week. The challenge is to feel that I'm not off program. I'll switch the points around to have my heavy points now and the lower points later.
Lauren, my son is a doctor too. I guess we're all hoping for you to lose your job, but it sure feels weird. It's great that you are losing so well.

I love your new plans. Are you thinking that apts. in NY will be half the cost of apts. in CA? NYC is running $1200-1500 for a studio. If you can live in Brooklyn or Queens, you can do a tiny bit better. Of course if you can have a roommate to split costs with, you can do much much better because you split the rent, etc. I am so happy that your dh has a better job than before. Good luck to you all.

My daughter -in-law lost 30 pounds. She lost 15 pounds during the pregnancy and an additional 15 pounds once she had the baby (baby weight, etc). She is thrilled and continues to lose while she's nursing. So, I think if you eat well, exercise moderately you'll do just fine. We're all pulling for you.

Take care. Keep up the good work.

All goes well. This should be a nice visit. Take care everyone and keep on keepin' on.
Judy 234/thinner;)

Lin S
08-15-2001, 11:23 PM
Hi, Turtles,

Congratulations, Lauren, on that 1.6# loss. Way to go! I hope you get to keep your great leader or that your permanent leader is just as good.

I guess we get to congratulate you on losing your job. It sure feels weird. I hope your next job is a really great one!

Judy, you're doing great. Keep the momentum going and you should sail right through that extra week between WIs.

Re: your question about rents--the CIA isn't in NYC. It's in Hyde Park, NY. I checked the rental ads on the CIA web site. One-bedroom apts. seem to average around $600, which is half of what I'm paying now for a 2-BR. Your info on NYC apts makes me wonder if the landlords in NYC check out the Silicon Valley rents and then raise theirs in order to keep their reputation for having the most expensive real estate on the planet! :lol: Currently, a studio in Silicon Valley is running about $1000 per month.

Tomorrow we take Chris to SJ to register and move. I'm not taking it well, but I will be OK once I get used to it. It is going to take a while to get used to being by myself again and not having the kids show up at the end of the day.
The main thing I need to do is find a job. I keep looking, but there's not much here, as I've said before. And to get started on locating college money. And to work on some of thost cooking contest recipes. If I can win some, they'd be a great source of funds I can use for school. Other than the empty nest thing, things are going fine. Paul likes his new job. David will be here next Wed. to pick up the rest of his stuff. And I'm sure Chris will be OK, once he gets settled.

Hope all you turtles are doing well. Happy turtlin'! :)


08-16-2001, 02:35 AM
Hi Turtles!!! Kathy speaking!! I bet you thoguht I won a million dollars in Reno, and just forget all my fellow turtles!!! May it never happen..well I would have liked to win the money..but didn't and I wouldn't forget you!!! I did have a great time, esp watching my mom have such a good time...She is 83 and she just loved it..She stayed up until 12:30 gambling nickles and would have gone on longer if my sister hadn't pooped out..We slept till 9:00!!

Food wise I don't think I did so hot...with the Reno trip and the reunion..i gain .8 lbs...I was kinda upset..I should not have gained...I mean I should have watched it more, passed on the free drinks when you are gambling and just chose correctly. (the good thing about going to Boontown during the week, they really didn't have too many waitresses coming around so I didn't get too many free drinks...just 2 i think...But anyway, all in all..i derserved to gain the .8 lbs and that upsets me..what really upsets me is that I can't find the 3 weeks tickets for my weigh ins...It has it on a few pieces of paper that I paid for the 10 weeks but one of the ladies said I had to have that little piece of papers...I don't..I looked everywhere..I ended up paying last week, and the lady that weighed me said maybe we could work out something.. I hope so..the thought of losing thoes 3 weeks just about makes me sick..I never should have lost them.. I should have put them in my weight watcher black thing,..but nooooo..I put it in my purse..and now they are gone...

Oh well

Lin ..congradulations on the job for your dh. I am just so happy to hear it...I know you will be sad to move your son out..but remember there are telephones and there is email...you can talk to him lots...how far away are you from him again??? If you ever just come this way for a drive..we will meet ok???

Congradulations to you all...Lauren on your 1.6..weigh to go!!! Judy...keep up the good work!!!Mousie..good vibes for your dh andhis job...

Tomorrow I have a day off and plan on going to the gym early...and working out real hard...eating a big breakfast before I go so I can work out my 45 minutes which is really what I like to do...then I will do my legs..and then swim a lap or two..Guess what I did after my Reno trip??? I went and visited a friend...and we went horseback riding..it was so special for me..I just loved it..and boy am I sore...these are good horses too. they are older..around 18 and although they do like to run, I kept them in control until we got to let them trot/canter for a bit which scared the living you know what out of me, but to tell you the truth it was the most funnest thing I have done in a long time...the lady who owns the horses said I could go with her any time I want...and am going to..I want to learn how to lope/canter with out it feeling like i am going to fall out of the saddle..

thanks for listening...


Lauren H
08-16-2001, 05:02 PM
Hello, everyone.

Judy, glad you're enjoying your visit! That's remarkable about your daughter losing weight while pregnant. Given how much I want to eat before TOM, my hat's off to her.

Lin, don't congratulate me yet -- I'm still here at this awful job. I'm sure once I'm laid off (if I get laid off) I'll be a nervous wreck trying to find another job, but I still think it's my best option right now. Unless a great job suddenly appears on the horizon or something.

Kathy, sounds like you had a great trip. That tiny weight gain will come off in no time. Horseback riding! I'm impressed. The only time in my adult life that I tried to ride a horse, it tried to rub me off on some trees!

Yesterday I got some kind of bug, so I ended up eating very little. I was also below my points the day before. My weight and measurements are way down today, though I'm sure that's just temporary. It was fun to see, though.

Onward and downward,


Lauren H
08-17-2001, 04:11 PM
Hey, everyone. I just noticed that Dotti's is having its second annual conference on April 19-22, 2002, and I had a thought -- what about a mini-turtle conference then, too? I'm planning to go to the DWLZ (Dotti's Weight-Loss Zone) conference, and it would be WONDERFUL to meet my turtle buddies there.

Any chance you could make it to St. Louis for a weekend? You'd have to pay for your transportation, plus two nights in a hotel (last year they were $90 per night, but I think that was the total cost of the room, so people roomed together to split the cost), plus food at the hotel, which came to $75 total last year (included all meals except Saturday dinner).

Here's the link to find out more about the conference: http://pub38.************/fdottisweightlosszonefrm101

I'm going to start saving now; I really want to go. It would be so cool to see my favorite weight-loss buddies there, too!


Lin S
08-17-2001, 05:47 PM
Hi, Turtles,

Well, my cat is making this very difficult. She misses the boys, so she's pestering me.

Hey, Kathy. Glad you had a great time in Reno. But, don't beat yourself up over the food and small weight gain. You did really well. Many people go away and get back with much larger gains than you did. And that small amount will go soon, I'm sure.

I envy you your horseback riding. I've always wanted to learn. I signed up for a class once through one of the community colleges, but they changed the plan, which upped the price. I was only working part time and I couldn't affort the price increase, so I had to drop the class. Someday, I still want to learn to ride.

Lauren, I hope you're feeling better. Bugs seem to have a double edge to them because while you're sick, you tend to eat less, but then when you get better, your appetite seems to want to go out of control for a day or so. I guess our bodies are really programmed to prefer to stay at the same weight and that's why it's so hard to budge that scale.

I'd love to go to St. Louis, but it would take a miracle. As you all know, I have Chris's senior year stuff to pay for, plus college expenses looming for him. He's the first priority for college. But if I'm going to go to school, too, I really cannot spend money to travel right now. I'm hoping to be able to attend one of the future conferences, if they continue to do them.

This has been a werid week. After all of that time with no job prospects, Paul is getting a lot of calls. He had one last week and a phone message from a recruiter who sent his resume to two other companies. Then that company in Seattle called and they want him to contact them if he should need a job in the future or want to relocate to Seattle. It always seems to work that way. But he likes his new job and things are OK.

This empty nest thing is a strange situation. It's harder than I expected it would be, probably because of Chris leaving a year earlier than I expected. But it's also easier than many things I've dealt with in my life. That's probably because a reasonable parent expects her children to grow up and leave.

I'm testing a recipe for the apple pie scholarship contest at the CIA this afternoon. It's a recipe I just made up and haven't done before. It should be interesting since I don't have a lot of experience creating desserts from my own knowledge of baking chemistry. I have to get on with it or it won't be done before I need the oven to cook dinner. The crust will have to chill twice, since my food processor blade disappeared and I have to do it by hand.

I'm still not counting points, but I'm making sure that I eat those fruits and veggies, calcium, and other healthy things. I don't know if my weight is going up, down, or staying the same. My clothes fit the same as they have for the past year, so I'm guessing it's about the same. I'm feeling a little ambivalent about my goals re: my weight right now, so I'm trying to maintain while I think about and decide what I want to do over the long haul.

I hope everything is well with all of you turtles, even the ones who don't post.

Happy turtlin'! :D


08-21-2001, 11:05 AM
Hi all!
I won't be able to make the Dotti's Convention, but it sure is a good idea. It would be great to see you all in person. You're doing great on program and it's working out well for you. I hope your leader at WW sticks around for a while especially because she has a lot to offer.

Of course you meant CIA in Hyde Park. For some reason I always think it is located in NYC. You'll do fine up there if that's what you decide to do. Good luck with your recipes. You've got a lot going on again. It's hard to become an empty nester, especially the way you guys are doing it by having both sons leave the nest at about the same time. I found that e-mail and the phone helped a lot. Also my husband and I got up to college or had the kids come home for weekend visits when it was too hard to be apart. There are a lot of benefits from having a quiet house and the positive parts of being an empty nester will surface when you have time to process all of this.

You did great in Reno! Most people I know hit the buffets and then the buffets hit them at the scale. So don't beat yourself up because you're doing great.

Do well and hang in there.

For me, not getting to a meeting is foolish. Even though I knew I was up, I should have gone to a meeting last week after my Official WW WI day. It's given me too much leeway to worry and act out my emotions by eating. That's not a great idea. I've done a lot of reading this week and finally decided to buy the one food I was really craving. I ate it and hope that that's the end of it. My husband is willing to try proper eating again today, so that will help a lot.
Take care, do well, and let's do this!
Judy 234/thinner;)

08-21-2001, 12:35 PM
Hi Turtleettes!!!

Not on program this week, I don't know why..but today is a new day. I didn't make it to ww myself Judy and I think it was for the same reason and for the fact I couldn't find the paying labels...I kept thinking it was too much trouble..esp since the lady who told me she might help prob wouldn't be the weigher I figured..naaaa, I am also going camping this weekend so that will be another WI tht i can't go. I think I am going to do better (eat op) and then start again after my big vacation which will be sometime at the end of September. It will be a camping trip so that is good. No eating out during that 2 week period..

I can't believe how my dh loves to go out at night after work. He wants to go to Dennys..I go and when I first started I would order coffee and toast...Now it is worse..i order awful stuff..but no more.....it will be only coffee from now on..It is kinda fun to go but I don't like going every night..once a week is fine with me.

It is funny Lin....you and me have the opposite problem...Your kids moved out, and mine moved in..personally since I have such a small house, I wish they could have stayed in there own apt..Dawn is not as helpful around the house as my other daughter..You kind of have to order her to help...yesterday I was ironing before i went to work..I forget to take down the ironing borard...she left it up and cooked dinner around it..I guess we all know what she was telling me..it just seems weird to me..why not just take the stupid thing down so you don't have to work around it...it is so simple..Oh well. Andre got his green card approveal and it will be here in 2 months..D started college yesterday, and after this semester is over, they will go back to kiev for 9 months to a year to visit and work in Kiev. I love her to death but would rather see her back in Kiev Happy. That is where she is happiest.

Well got to get to eatting breakfast..

You all take care..


Lin S
08-21-2001, 03:23 PM
Hi, Turtle Buddies,

Judy, I know what you mean about the cravings. I found that I overeat less if I go ahead and get whatever I'm craving. Some people find that if having it in the house is a problem, they go to a restaurant and get one portion. If the portion is large, they get a doggie bag and put the amount they don't want to eat in it, then "forget" to take the doggie bag home. I often eat only a bite or two of stuff I used to love because it doesn't taste all that good anymore. Lately, I've noticed that I don't like desserts at restaurants very much because they put too much sugar in them. So, my chocolate dessert doesn't taste like chocolate, it tastes like sugar. Maybe it's because I'm getting older. They say that older people don't like things as sweet as younger people. That can be a plus for us WWers!

Thanks for the positive thoughts about empty nesting. It would be easier if I had a car. I'm stuck in this apartment all day with only my sleeping cats for company.

Kathy, you seem to have a plan for getting back OP. That's a plus. And camping will help because you're in control of your food and because it's an active vacation. You can't go camping and just sit around (unless you take a house along! :lol: )

Your story about your daughter is funny! If my oldest son cannot find work soon, he may be back. It's more difficult than he expected it to be. But he's not giving up and that's a good sign.

I've been researching a lot of stuff lately and I'm not sure that the CIA is the best route for reaching my goals. The things I want to do aren't really what any of the culinary schools teach. They talk about graduates who go into the fields I'm interested in, but don't really say how what they teach got them there, since they don't teach classes in food styling, food photography, recipe creation and writing for books or magazines and only one in food writing. So, I'm keeping an open mind and we'll see what the best route for me is. I must figure out something because I'll go nuts just sitting around here.

In the meantime, I'm keeping busy with some projects that I got behind on while Paul was not working. And I'm working out how to organize my cooking so that I'm not spending 4 hours in the kitchen cooking one meal. It's that I'm back to doing mini meals and those multi-course soup, salad, etc. meals that seem to work best for me. And they take time to fix. I have a few tricks like combining courses--chicken and dumplings, for example, is a main dish, veggies, and side dish in one pot--and splitting up the cooking over two days--since with only two of us I only cook dinner every other day. It's the planning and organizing that is hard for me because I'm a spontaneous person by nature. But it's worth it because I get all of my fruits and veggies in, lots of fiber, and I don't overeat the higher point stuff because I fill up on soup, salad, and veggies.

We'll see how it goes. My oldest son may be coming home tomorrow to pick up his stuff. It depends on whether his ride can get off work. If not, it will be next week. Or whenever. The younger generation is even more spontaneous than I am. :lol:

Hope everything is well with all of you turtles.

Happy turtlin'! :D


Lauren H
08-21-2001, 08:20 PM
Well, tortoises, I lost a very un-turtleish 3# this week and got my 50# magnet. I'm now in virgin fat territory as far as WW is concerned, though I weighed a tad less than this when losing weight on my own this past year. (I'll *really* jump up and down when I hit my own personal virgin fat territory -- 2 more pounds.) I've actually lost 60 pounds, since I lost 10 prior to joining WW. But I haven't hit that mark on my home scales yet.

And this is just before TOM, too! I have all but given up trying to figure out why my body loses weight when it does. I did work out more this past week -- 4.5 hours total, and higher intensity, too. I also had two very low-point days (below my point range, though not intentionally) as well as several high-point days. In the end, I had about 10 banked points left.

So once again, I find that if I eat lower in my points and exercise more, I lose weight. It's not a message I've particularly wanted to hear, but there ya go.

Lin, I have the answer to your empty nest syndome. I'll move in, and you can cook for me!! :) I'll even do the dishes! Just listening to you talk about food ... I wish I liked to cook. Tomorrow is DH's birthday, so I'm doing the sacrificial thing and making him my least favorite dish -- meatloaf. Which he loves. At least it's curried meatloaf with mango chutney! :) I'm also going to make a flourless chocolate cake, which he also loves. Good thing I love the guy.

Kathy, I would find the Denny's thing hard, too. So much of that stuff is so high in points, and on days when I'm struggling I really have to avoid temptations like that. I don't know what I'd do in your shoes. Maybe convince him to alternate Denny's with someplace healthier?

Judy, I also find it really tough to go to WW when I know I'm up. We all know better, but we all do it. I know you'll get back there; you're a true turtle. :)

Hope everyone else is turtling along.

279/218.4/199 by Christmas (WW numbers)

08-21-2001, 11:33 PM
I am speechless! Hooray and congratulations on your great weight loss. This is amazing. How interesting that lower points and higher activity and then low and high points work for you at this time. The whole point of this process for me is to find the best way to work my food and activity to reach goal and stay there. You are my hero! You said you wanted to reach some goals by the holidays, and by George it's coming true. Good for you. Sixty pounds is amazing.
I've got to kick myself in the butt and stay with what I know works. I was doing nicely with Wendie's program and I know I need to add exercise. I just let my stupid emotions act as a block to doing what works best for me. I overeat, feel sorry for myself and still overeat. Not smart. Today was a good day. I'll weigh in tomorrow. I know I'll be up and I am basically throwing away the summer. This is not what I want to do. I am better than this and I am going to do this. Not in a few years, but now. Okay==thanks for letting me vent. It's just ridiculous to not grab the bull by the horns and do it as our famous Yoda says.

lots still going on with you--do you have anyone in the apt. building with a car who'd be willing to give you a lift somewhere?
Good for you for getting back into cooking. I love your ideas and gain a lot of info. when you e=mail about them.

Your dh probably wants to have some quality time with you at night, therefore Denny's is a great place for him to go. I know you've got lots of determination, so decide before you go that at Denny's you'll have a cup of coffee only and one night a week, you'll get some toast or a piece of fruit also. That way you'll have your mind set, and you won't vary what you want to do. As far as having kids returning to the house, what can I say? You sound like me and take on their problems as your problems. It's tough because you want everything to be good for them. As far as the ironing board, I know here no one ever even notices things. I mean people literally step OVER laundry on the steps instead of picking it up and carrying it upstairs. Sometimes we take slights when none are intended, and sometimes you are in the best position to know what was intended. I'm trying to help you out in a tough situation. I know you want what is best for your daughter and her dh, but you don't want to have your peace of mind altered in the meantime.

You guys are the best and I value your friendship. I am doing this program right now!!!

08-22-2001, 04:16 PM
Hi Turtles,
I bit the bullet and got to my meeting. My WI was tough--up a little more than 2 pounds. But the good news is I was OP yesterday and I am OP today. I need to work on exercise (Are you tired of hearing me say that yet?) and keeping my emotions in check. A 12 year old boy made lifetime at our meeting today. When Margo, our leader, asked him what he had learned, he said, "Find something else to do aside from eating." Hellooooooo.
How's that? Out of the mouths of babes and right back to HALT--never let yourself get too hungry, angry, lonely, or tired. So, I keep on synthesizing these ideas and applying them. I am grateful I didn't go on a full-time binge about problems. I am sad that I did overeat about them because I know overeating doesn't solve problems and just creates more.
So, I am my cheerful self again--ready to go onward and upward. Good luck to all turtles and folks trying to do the right things for themselves.
Judy 234/thinner:dizzy:

Lin S
08-23-2001, 12:28 PM
Hi, Turtles,

Congratulations, Lauren, on that 3#! I wonder if psychologically eating lower in points would be easier if you lowered your point range. Then you wouldn't feel as if you're being cheated out of those points that WW says you should be able to eat and still lose. Your newfound dedication to your exercise program is awesome. You are such an inspiration for all of us. Persistence is the key and you are one persistent lady! ;)

Wish your dh a happy birthday from me. Your meatloaf recipe sounds like it's better than most, but meatloaf, peanut butter, and liver are the three things I really, really hate and, luckily, so does my dh, so I don't have to fix them. My kids like peanut butter. I think I'm going to have to give Chris my jar to take back to SJ with him because it will sit in this cupboard until doomsday and no one will even go near it except those pesky ants! :lol:

If you really want to enjoy cooking more, I suggest that you look for some books on why people use different cooking tecnhiques, how food works, and the science of cooking. Learning those things helped me to go from just liking to cook to really loving it. Because it freed my creativity. And you are such a creative person that I'm sure that if you were able to use that aspect of your personality in the kitchen, you would like it more. Maybe you'll never be an avid chef, but perhaps you would at least enjoy doing the cooking that you need to do.

Judy, your suggestion regarding the car and my neighbors is a great one and that's what I would do if I wanted or needed to go someplace specific. The real problem, though, is that I miss the independent feeling I had when we had two cars. Knowing I can go, if I want to, makes a huge difference for me. Even if I don't actually go anywhere.

You are doing great. Knowing that your emotions are one problem you need to work on is the key to getting past it. You will do it, but that's a tough one and takes time to work out. So, be patient with yourself and keep plugging away.

I love the quote from the younger member in your class. We tend to forget that little tip when we're not hungry, but tempted to eat. Thanks for sharing it with us.

I'm doing better with food. I'm not tracking points right now. But I am drinking the water, doing mini meals, eating all of those fruits and veggies (usually more veggies) and cooking mostly low-fat recipes. Some of my recipes I'm working on are still higher in fat than I'd like, but I usually go through a couple of variations before I'm happy with the balance.

It's PMS and Mrs. Hyde hasn't made an appearance yet. I'm not craving chocolate and salty foods. I have part of a bag of potato chips in my cupboard and haven't wanted to eat them. The calcium seems to be doing the trick for keeping Mrs. Hyde at bay. I've been reading up and some of the doctors have suggested taking magnesium, also. I tried that and it does seem to be helping stop the food cravings.

My biggest challenge is exercise. I do really well if I'm doing exercise as a part of something else like walking around campus when I was at school or walking around my old neighborhood to do errands. It's doing exercise all by itself that I find difficult. I wish this were a more interesting neighborhood or that I could afford to take a class in something I like doing. I also do better with just exercising if I'm in a class than if I'm by myself. So, that's something I need to work out and get moving on. (Pun intended. ;) )

Happy turtlin'! :D


Lauren H
08-23-2001, 01:36 PM
Hi, turtles. Only one more day until the weekend, and this weekend we don't have anyone coming to stay with us! Hooray. Hard to believe that Labor Day is just around the corner, though.

Judy, way to go on getting back to your meeting and weighing in! I know how heroic that is. So many of us stop going to meetings when we know we're up -- and we don't come back until we're WAY up and desperate. By catching yourself now, you're saving yourself a lot of grief in the future.

The whole issue of emotional eating is so tough. So far there are only two emotions that don't make me eat: extreme anxiety (I actually lose my appetite) and strong anger or frustration (I end up having to do something active, like clean the house!). All the other ones can lead to overeating if I don't watch it. Thanks for the HALT reminder. I still haven't figured out how to keep myself from getting angry, lonely, or tired -- but at least I can remind myself when I do feel those things that eating won't help and try to find other outlets.

Hungry, on the other hand ... I've been a bit hungry this entire past week. I figure it's hormonal, and I haven't let myself overeat. But it's tough. I'll eat a nice big meal with lots of protein and fiber and fat ... and then I'll be hungry again very shortly after! For someone who never let herself get hungry for many years, this is a new sensation. Yesterday afternoon while I was cooking, I ate an entire carton of grape tomatoes! I figured that would be better than licking chocolate sauce (which I did a little bit of).

Lin, this meatloaf was indeed not typical. I actually enjoyed it, which surprised me quite a bit. I used ground sirloin, which helped, and no catsup or the usual meatloaf spices. I chopped up a granny smith apple and an onion and threw in curry powder and orange juice with the mango chutney. It turned out very good (though I won't be making it often, since it's still high in points). The flourless chocolate cake was incredible. I melted good quality chocolate for the cake itself, and then for the icing I combined more good chocolate with butter and Grand Marnier. (Boy, that stuff is expensive -- but so worth it.) It was incredible. And seven whopping points just for 1/12 of the cake! Between that and the meatloaf and the merlot, I was just a tad high in my points yesterday. But DH sure did enjoy it. Unfortunately, we still have a lot of that cake left. I wish he'd taken it to work today.

Thanks for the cooking tips. Any good sites for learning that kind of stuff?

The idea of lowering my point range is a good one. I'm going to think a bit about that.

Way to go on conquering Mrs. Hyde! I've been taking calcium this month, too, and so far the PMS hasn't been too bad. But TOM is now pretty late. I know that calcium interferes with the absorption of iron, and lack of iron often pushes back my period. I suppose I'll figure out how to balance all this some day.

Onward and downward,


Lin S
08-24-2001, 01:55 PM
Hi, Turtles,

Lauren, the hunger may very well be hormonal. I've read that women need about 100 calories per day more food during PMS. But I've never really understood why that is. That's only about 2 points, which is way less than most of us eat when we give into those cravings, that's for sure.

About the iron/calcium thing--I take 2 500mg. tablets of calcium with vitamin D added with breakfatst and lunch. I rarely eat foods high in iron with those meals. Then with dinner I take a mulitvitamin that has 450 mg. calcium and some iron in it. I figure that at least some of the calcium will be absorbed and I'll end up with about the right amount. Plus, I do eat foods high in calcium, too. (Just not enough to add up to that 1200-1500 mg. I need. And I've been making sure to eat some red meat to boost my iron intake, which is easier to do since Chris isn't living with us. He doesn't like most red meats. I also take a tablet of magnesium at the same time as the multivitamin because the multivitamin doesn't have enough. It seems to be working, so I guess enough of the vitamins and minerals are getting absorbed by my body. Check out Costco for the huge bottles because they don't cost much more than the small ones at the drugstore. Read the labels carefully to be sure you don't get the ones with mega doses. Some of them can cause problems when combined with a healthy diet that contains those same vitamins and minerals in generous amounts.

Re: cooking web sites--here are some suggestions --

epicurious.com --the web site for Bon Appetit and Gourmet magazines

cookinglight.com --the web site for Cooking Light magazine

The above two are more recipe oriented, but also have good technique information. The next two sites are for food magazines that focus on teaching technique. They kind of read like cooking classes.

taunton.com/fc/ --this is for Fine Cooking Magazine, one of my favorites.

cuisinemagazine.com --this one is a little more basic than Fine Cooking. It's for Cuisine magazine.

The last magazine I really like for this subject is Cook's Illustrated. They have a web site, but the magazine and the web site don't have outside advertising, so they ask you to subscribe in order to get the really good stuff. Check out the magazine in the bookstores. It's one of the best. They take a scientific approach to cooking and their articles really get into why things work. Some of the techniques they end up with are a bit time-consuming and fussy, but most of them are easily doable. I use the simpler techniques for every day and the more complicated ones when I want the food to be extra-special.

Other than magazine sites, I like Graham Kerr's site for nutrition information, healthy techniques and recipes.


I checked out my bookmark list and there is a dearth of general cooking sites. I don't know where they went. So, I'll do some surfing to see if the URL's have changed and get back to you on those. I know that some of them have forums where you can ask people for help, but you can also ask me, too, and I'll find out if I don't know the answer. Hope these help. If you want to know of some reference type cooking books, I can list a bunch of those, too.

Well, I found my keys and I'm going for a walk. Hope you're all doing well.

Happy turtlin'! :D


Lauren H
08-28-2001, 03:07 PM
Thanks, Lin, for all those great links! I'll check them out. I'll probably soon have lots of time to learn about cooking, since it's 99 percent certain I'll be laid off this Friday. It's what I've wanted, but of course I have mixed feelings. Not about leaving what this company has become, but there are some wonderful people there and I'll miss them. As far as timing goes, though, it's perfect -- September and October are my favorite months of the whole year. My goal would be to get something in November (my severance pay should carry us easily through to mid-December), but that's a hard time of year to find work. If we have to wait until January, we should be OK, though it'll be tight.

Anyway. I'm finally in the throes of TOM so my weight is up a bit this week. I'll weigh in tonight at WW, but I won't be discouraged by higher numbers. I've had a great week program-wise -- have banked more than 10 points, and have met my exercise goals (4.5 hours). So I feel good about taking care of my body, no matter what the scales say.

It's been pretty quiet around here. Is everyone taking a summer break until after Labor Day? Hope you're all doing well.

Onward and downward,

279/216.5/down (morning numbers)

Lin S
08-28-2001, 03:32 PM
Hi, Turtles,

I has been quiet around here, Lauren. I hope everyone is doing well.

I think it's terrific that you were able to bank so many points and do all of your exercise right at TOM. I always find that difficult, although it's been getting easier since I started with the calcium and stuff.

I also love September and October. It's my favorite time to go to the wine country, although I haven't been able to do that for a long time.

Good luck with the job hunt. I think one benefit, since you're OK financially, of being off work at this time of year is that you can really enjoy the holiday season without as much stress because you'll have more time to prepare for your favorite types of holiday fun.

I'm doing about the same. My youngest son starts school tomorrow. He may not get his drama class, though, because the teacher says it's really full. I hope he can manage to squeeze in one more student. He got his art class, though. His schedule was so messed up because the school here didn't have him finish his physical science. They signed him up for two classes he had already taken. And omitted one he needed. Plus making him take a class he could probably teach! So, we're glad he's back at his old school. He has a weird schedule, but he'll get all of the units he needs to graduate. I haven't heard from my older son, but I'm going on the assumption that no news means nothing horrible has happened.

It's funny how you go about your day's stuff and you kind of think you're getting used to the quiet, then something happens and you really miss your kids. I was making a quiche last night out of some leftovers. And in my head I could hear my youngest son asking me what I was putting in it, in that anticipating tone he uses when he's going to get something he really likes. It really hit me how much I miss them. After all, they've been around for 22 years!

So, that's what's going on here. Hope you all are doing well and can post soon. Talk to you all later.

Happy turtlin'! :)


Lauren H
08-28-2001, 11:09 PM
Wow, Lin, 22 years. I hadn't thought of what that would really feel like, not having kids myself. Somehow what you said just made it a bit more real to me. Raising children is a strange thing. You raise them so that they'll be able to be independent when the time comes, but then when it comes, you grieve. At least it's a happy kind of grief.

Just a quick note here to say that I'm up about a pound and a half on the WW scales, which is what I expected. On the extremely bright side, since we got our Tanita scale (which measures body fat percentage) early last spring, I've gone down 6 percent in body fat. That's especially heartening to me since I haven't lost many pounds since that time.

The meeting was excellent. I'll try to write more about it tomorrow. She's a wonderful leader, and the group is great, too.

Onward and downward,

(279/219.8/199 by Christmas)

08-29-2001, 04:45 PM
Hi Turtles,
Glad to hear you're doing well. My dh and I were away for a couple of days. I went to WW, but chose not to WI because I am up at least two temporary pounds right now. Got to get on top of this stuff.
Am heading back to work this Tuesday. I'm a teacher. I have mixed feelings and hope this year is as great as last year was.
So, good luck to us all. Just wanted to say hi.
WW meeting was about the change of season. At the end of this next season coming up, where do we want to be? Specifically how will we get there?
Something to think about.
Love again,

08-30-2001, 10:57 AM
Hi turtles,

I have sad news - I had a miscarriage on Friday. The doctor said there was nothing wrong with me or with anything I did or didn't do, that it was probably just not a viable pregnancy.

I was very shocked and surprised and sad, but I was also amazed to find out how common this is. About one out of four pregnancies ends this way. The doctor did two ultrasounds and everything looks normal. I didn't have to have a D&C (thank God) and we should be able to start trying to concieve again in a couple of months. I want to try again as soon as possible - I'll be 32 next month and I don't want to wait any longer. I was very excited to be pregnant and I can't wait to have a new baby. My weight is not going to stand in my way, and I have two months to continue losing and eating healthy.

This whole experience has been incredibly hard - I've even wished that I was dead so that I wouldn't have to feel such horrible pain (physically and emotionally). I am just now, almost a week later, starting to feel better. I've been keeping busy - my boss told me to take this whole week off, but I came in Monday and every day since. The alternative is staying home and crying, so I'd rather work.

I do have some good news - ironically we found out that our offer on a house was accepted the night before I lost the baby. So I went from very happy to unbelieveably sad in about 8 hours. Everything is progressing well with the house, though - it's in my husband's hometown and is very large and beautiful. It was built in 1853 and has lots of amenities. After ten years of renting, we're very excited. I was surprised at how easy it was to buy - I thought we would never qualify for the mortgage, but it was an automatic approval.

WW-wise, I've been indulging myself a little, but nothing like I would have done before WW. I didn't go to my meeting last week for obvious reasons, but I'll go Saturday. I'm sure I've lost some weight, but it's not a happy loss. I've been getting better staying OP each day, but I can't exercise right now - hopefully next week I can. BTW, the ladies at the 800# said as long as you have a note from your doctor, you can attend meetings while pregnant.

I'm glad to hear that you're all doing well - Lauren, congrats on the 50# marker - I love those rewards. Lin - you sound so much better, I know it's sad to thave the kids move out but you sound like you've gots lots of exciting plans. Judy and Harley, keep on plugging away, you can do it.

Enjoy the holiday,
332/279/269(2nd 10% goal)

Lin S
08-30-2001, 06:10 PM
Hi, Turtles,

It's time to start a new thread. See you all on #35!

Happy turtlin'! :)

Lin S