WW Clubs and Groups - Turtle Club #33

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Lauren H
07-25-2001, 12:08 PM
Here's Lin's intro:

Hi, Turtle Buddies,

Here it is - my "official" version of the fable:

The Hare and the Tortoise

A hare met a tortoise one day and made fun of him for the slow and clumsy way in which he walked.

The tortoise laughed and said, "I will run a race with you any time that you choose."

"Very well," replied the hare, "we will start at once."

The tortoise immediately set off in his slow and steady way without waiting a moment or looking back. The hare, on the other hand, treated the matter as a joke and decided to take a little nap before starting, for she thought that it would be an easy matter to overtake her rival.

The tortoise plodded on, and meanwhile the hare overslept herself, with the result that she arrived at the winning-post only to see that the tortoise had got in before her.

Moral: Slow and steady wins the race.

This comes from a book handed down from my grandmother to my mother to me. The book is so old it doesn't have a copyright date or an author/editor's credit.

That fable has been the motivation for us turtles for about two years. Someone on the ancient WW forum mentioned the fable and I discovered it was very motivational for me. I talked about it in posts and other people said that the tortoise philosophy worked for them, too. So, I started a thread for us turtle types.

We work toward accepting that our bodies have a natural speed of weight loss when we choose to live a healthy life, instead of "going on a diet". Many of us have experienced "the diets" as go on/lose weight-- go off/ gain the weight plus more back.

We choose to perservere with each choice we make throughout the day. We believe that choosing to be slow, steady turtles helps us to learn the skills we need to learn in order to not only lose the weight, but keep it off and become the healthiest people we can be.

So, welcome to all who realize that losing and maintaining a weight loss is a lifestyle change. And who want support as we all learn the skills we need to successfully make the changes that will allow us to reach our goals.

--Lin (courtesy of Lauren)

Lin S
07-25-2001, 07:58 PM
Hi, Turtles,

Thank you, Lauren, for starting the new thread.

Judy, I hope all goes well with the birth of that first grandchild. Keep us posted! I like the Richard Simmons tapes, too. But I only do them when the guys aren't around because I feel so self-conscious.

Paul has an interview in Santa Rosa on Tuesday. We're really being positive about this. He really wants the job and we like the location. Chris is pretty much resigned to his fate, I think. He's not ecstatic about moving again, but I think he prefers that his dad have a job, etc. than for us to be living with his grandma or on gov't assistance. Things are looking up and I appreciate all of your good thoughts and helpful, supportive words so much as we 've gone through this. It will be a huge disappointment if it doesn't work out, but we're still sending out resumes, just in case. And we'll deal with that if it happens.

Gotta go. Hope all of you are doing well.

Happy turtlin'! :)


07-25-2001, 08:40 PM
Here's a quicky: I weighed in at WW today and I'm down a pound since last Friday using the Wendie Plan. I am very hopeful. The WW lecturer focused on two main ideas: What is your formula for losing weight/what works for you. And "Before and After". What did you do before with a particular food and what do you do now? For me, it's going LF with as many items as I can. I've found wonderful recipes that others or I have adjusted to slow down on sugar and fat and eat healthier.

Lauren, thanks for starting a new thread. I'm so glad you and I are chopping off the recent weight we gained.

Lin, my thoughts, prayers and good vibes are coming your way to give you support in the job search. I am so proud of you that you can concentrate on eating healthier right now, Calcium, etc. because this is a stressful time. You're doing the right thing.

Everybody, take care--to those viewers, chime in sometimes. It's always good to hear from new people.


Lauren H
07-26-2001, 11:23 AM
Lin, I'm so glad Paul has an interview. We'll keep praying.

Judy, way to go on the loss this week! It sure does feel great to get our recently gained weight back off, doesn't it? I'm just a couple pounds from where I was before I went on vacation. My clothes feel *much* better. This time, though, I'm motivated to keep on going. I want these clothes to feel baggy by Christmas.

How have you found working the Wendie plan? Are you having to plan more so that you hit your low-point or high-point days properly? I wonder if the planning itself doesn't do most of the trick. I'm not terribly good at planning (and don't enjoy it). But I am finding that I'm varying my points quite a bit from day to day, and I think that's helping.

My husband is very sad about my taking the kitten back. Did I tell you all about this? He took our two cats to the vet for their regular checkup, and he came home with THREE. There was a kitten there that he couldn't resist. I was very upset about it, though -- I really didn't want a third cat right now. Too much stress in our lives.

So he agreed I could take it back in a couple days (the vet was closed on Tuesday), and during those two days he *really* bonded with that kitten. He did a great job socializing her, getting her used to being with people (she had been wild). She really came out of her shell. But yesterday was the day, and I took her back. He's so sad about it, and I feel awful. I'm tempted to go back and get her, just because he feels so bad. :(

Anyway. Didn't exercise yesterday or today, and I miss it. It's beautiful outside, though, so I'll go for a walk this evening.


Lin S
07-26-2001, 08:25 PM
Hi, Turtles,

Judy, congratulations on that loss of a pound this week. Way to go!

I do a lot of the same things with food that you mentioned. I work on revising the recipes I use the most so they use the minimum amount of fat they need in order to still be good. Usually I can cut out most of it. Or use some tricks to allow less to be used. Tricks like tossing the potatoes with oil instead of oiling the pan when I'm making oven french fries. A tablespoon will crisp up a whole batch, but it takes about 4 tablespoons when you oil the pan.

Lauren, I think it's a great idea to work on baggier clothes by Christmas. That's a very achievable goal, especially with the exercise you're doing. Hope you enjoy your walk.

If you go back and get that kitten, do you think your dh would take responsibility for caring for it? Or is it just too much in general right now for another pet? I feel bad for your dh. It's really hard to give up a pet, even if you've only just gotten to know the animal. We had that happen once. We found a kitten up in a tree. It was over a weekend and the Humane Society was closed. We got permission to keep it in our apartment over the weekend, but we got totally attached to him and we kept him. We moved before it became a problem and the cat, one of the smartest cats we ever had, used to hide under the bed if the manager knocked on the door. He didn't do that if it was anyone else.

Things are going about the same with me. I'm getting to PMS time and with the stress it's going to be difficult. The calcium is helping. So, I'll just keep doing what I need to do. Thanks so much for your prayers and positive vibes. The drive is about 3 1/2 hours, one way, from here. Paul will be doing that drive, an interview, and driving back in one day. I worry a little, but I'm sure he'll be OK.

Gotta go fix dinner. It's mostly leftovers. I just have to make rice and heat up the rest of the stuff. Easy. But I also have to finish baking the bread I started.

Talk to you all later.

Happy turtlin'! :D


07-27-2001, 02:09 AM
Hi Turtles!!!

Got back from my annivrsary night on the 25th, and I must say, it was the best anniversary every..my husband was so attentive..He even got us the room witht he big tub (but didn't go in, but I did, twice..) It was a very special time for us..I bought a really nice black dress, knit with a embroydered flower on it. when I picked it up i decided it prob wouldn't fit, they never do at Mervyns..there xL is like Med in other stores...Anyway, it fit and it looked good. Oh you can see a roll or two, but it made me feel pretty, like I was going to a prom...The dinner was out of this world...

Lin when Paul get the Santa Rosa job, you need to go to Bodega Bay for the weekend/night...that is where we went..Bodega Bay Inn and Spa...It is a very easy drive From Santa rosa...and yes we will definetly meet in SR...!!! that would be great...Anyone else in No Calif that want to join us???

I weighed in tonight, I didn't want to..I was ascared!!! but I did ok..I lost 1 lb!!! It made me very happy. So now I have lost 4 lbs altogether..yea...I will do good next week too. Am working lots of swing shift's so I will get to go to the gym in the morning hours. So I will lose!!! Of course tom should be here soon, but I will lose anyway!!! I have determination!!! And i will try the Wendie way myself...

Happy WW eating !!!


07-27-2001, 08:46 PM
Good luck to you and Paul about his job interview. I've got good feelings about this one. Yeah, thanks for the extra tips about oiling potatoes instead of pan. That's a great idea. It's so good that you started the turtles and we can all help each other.
You've got great advice about LF cooking that helps us all.

Oh my goodness. I don't know what I would do if I were you and the dh and kitty situation. Tough decision. Do what your heart tells you to do--and let common sense prevail. How's that for hedging? Yes, I am so thrilled that my backward journey in WW may be over for now. It is great to get the weight I regained so quickly off. It's taking me longer than I would like, but that has to be okay for now. At least I'm heading in the right direction. As far as the Wendie Plan, I planned four menus for the lowest point meals. The high end meals are not tough at all as you can imagine. All other menus I plan basically that morning. As far as planning ahead, I point out the week in my spiral notebook that I'm using for journalling. I turn to the next page in the morning and check out the points I can have for the day. On a low point day, I start with a lower point breakfast and lunch and make sure I fill in with veggies so I don't get hungry or resentful. On the medium point days, I'll throw in a fruit or another type of snack. On the high ends, I'll probably eat out or try pasta and meat. Last week on the high end day, I had company and it worked out great. I did have to flip my Sat. and Sun. points, but I still lost weight. I am so hopeful that I can do this. Yes, it does feel more like a "diet" than what I've been doing, but what I've been doing hasn't been working. Now I'd like to get this weight off and then I feel I can maintain by not detailing my points quite as structured as this plan. We'll see. I'm not crossing that bridge until I reach it.

Weigh to go! You are really doing great. It seems to me that you joined such a short time ago and here you are, down 4 pounds already. Good for you.

Keep on writing . It's such fun to hear from you. Good luck to us all in all that we are attempting. We're all trying to get a healthier lifestyle no matter what obstacles life throws at us.

Lin S
07-28-2001, 02:10 PM
Hi, Turtles,

Kathy, I absolutely love Bodega Bay. That was where Paul and I ended up on one of our first dates. I took away his map and his watch and told him to just drive. We ended up on the Northern California coast. We had a picnic lunch in Bodega Bay. It was fun. Even he admitted it was fun, but he still hates not knowing the time or where he is. He's a techie through and through. (He later told me he sneaked a peek at the map when I was in the ladies room.)

Congratulations on that 1 pound gone. Super job!

Judy, it sounds like you're really doing a good job of planning so the Wendie plan works for you. It also sounds like you're being reasonable in how you use it by being flexible when you need to.

Paul had another phone interview, this time with a company in Seattle. The money would be good and it's close to his mother in Tacoma. But there are a bunch of other issues that make it a good backup choice, but we really want the job in Santa Rosa. I'll keep you posted on the continuing saga of Lin's efforts to get her life and family back together.

I've been surfing the web and found a somewhat disappointing thing. I wish things had worked out that we could have moved to the Napa Valley area a few years ago. They have a high school that would be perfect for Chris. It's technology-oriented, especially graphics. And it's project-oriented in it's work style--hand on, exactly the way he learns. But he's too close to graduating to transfer there. He couldn't finish his regular requirements plus the extra requirements of the school. He would have a much higher GPA if he had been able to go to a school like that. Oh, well. That's the way life goes sometimes.

Gotta go. I'm using up pantry stuff so we won't have to throw away a lot of food when we move. I'm making a baked bean recipe that takes all day in the oven. So, if we're going to eat dinner tonight, I'd better get cooking.

Happy turtlin'! :)


Lauren H
07-28-2001, 07:44 PM
Tortoise beings,

It's always so good to come here and see you all. I hope one day we really can meet in person.

Kathy, I loved the description of your wonderful anniversary. It sounded marvelous. Good for you on the dress! I'll bet you were beautiful.

Judy, that's so encouraging about how well you're doing working the plan. I'm impressed with your planning ahead. I'm still not quite ready to do that, so I think I'll save that for a plateau. But I do find that mixing up my points really helps, so I think Wendie must be onto something.

Lin, wow, Seattle! Sounds like things are starting to move for your husband now and that it's only a matter of time before he gets a good job. Here's hoping the time schedule works out well for you. What's in the baked bean recipe?

Phil has managed to recover his spirits, so I'm now glad I held out and returned the kitten. She's in good hands (this vet only sees cats, and she and her staff are very good at socializing kittens for adoption), and I'm sure she'll find a good home. I'll call in a week or two and see how she's doing. Maybe.

Lin, it wasn't so much that I thought taking care of her physical needs would be a lot of added stress. I just get so involved with animals (and people); it's like my radar is always on, always tuning in to what those around me are thinking/feeling/going through. Because that takes a lot out of me, I try to keep my socializing down to a minimum when I'm stressed in other ways. My job is extremely social; my relationship with Phil is always challenging (good, but challenging), and most of the time these days I dream of going off somewhere by myself for a month to re-charge. The thought of adding another emotional drain was just too much. This probably makes no sense to someone who's not an introvert at heart.

I'm still doing well on points -- ate way over my points (49!) a couple days ago, so ate slightly under (22) yesterday. Today will be normal. I'm also excited about what I accomplished today. I bought some walking CDs -- music that sets a pace for walking or working out. Someone on this list or Dotti's recommended them. Today I tried the 4.5 miles in 1 hour CD -- and I completed it! I walked in the house (which the cat found fascinating) -- zipping around the living room, dining room, kitchen, and stairs -- and alternated walking with other aerobic steps (lunging, grapevines, kicks, knee-lifts, etc.). So I have no idea if I really did the equivalent of a 4.5-mile walk in 60 minutes, but it sure felt like it! Fun music. Next time, I'll try it outdoors, though probably with one of the slightly slower ones.

It feels so good to be getting fit. I've been exercising now regularly for about 7 months -- my longest ever! And I've finally got to the point where I miss it if I don't do it for several days.

Hope you're all enjoying your weekend. How are our lurkers doing?


07-29-2001, 11:11 AM
Hi All!
Great to hear from everybody. I'm really glad I joined this group because it helps for friendship and keeping focused.

I am amazed at how you have been exercising for so long now. That indoor tape sounds like a lot of fun. Exercising doing most anything for an hour has to be a huge help. Good for you.

I've been doing well here. I'm right on top of the points and still using Wendie's Plan. I haven't been getting the exercise in, so I hope to start again today. Interesting: yesterday was the highest point day for me. I structured the week so my highest points fall on Sat. But my hands are all swollen today. I would guess that's water retention from salt. We had Italian Takeout last night , yummy-= but the salt was super high. So, today I'll drink lots and lots of water .

We're still waiting for the "You're a Grandma" call and it's very exciting.

Everybody take care--and keep on turtlin'

Judy 234/thinner:cool:

07-29-2001, 01:19 PM
Hi turtles, sorry it's been so long since I checked in!

Lin--Good luck with your husband's job! DH says he sees signs that the industry is starting to move again, let's hope that means they BOTH get jobs ASAP!

Lauren--I understand TOTALLY what you're talking about, wanting to just go away for a month and recharge. Out bathtub has a sliding door on it, and when I have the door closed it's the rule NOT to bother me. I'm the world's biggest introvert, I think! Good for you for keeping your emotional health in your sites.

Judy--SO???? Are you a grandma????

I made the decision that I was going to do 123 wholeheartedly, instead of WP halfheartedly. I've also cut WAY back on my workouts, 1/2 hour a day max. Seems to be working--on my home scale I've lost 5 pounds in 10 days, even with TOM imminent! Fingers crossed!

07-29-2001, 06:35 PM
Hey Mousie,
Glad to hear from you and that you're doing well. I think you're smart to do 123 well. For some reason I let the lower points of WP throw me and I messed up for months before getting on Wendie's Plan. Glad you're okay. I missed you. Also glad to hear industry is turning around. That's so important.
No, I'm not a grandma yet, but it should be any day now.

07-30-2001, 12:23 AM
Is this your first grandchild, Judy? I'm sorry if you've mentioned it before, I can't recall. In my family we have one child, my nephew. My parents love their grandson dearly and spoil him rotten, and keep looking to my sister and I for our "contributions". Unfortunately, my sister's having difficulty conceiving and my husband and I aren't planning to start our family for about 4 more years (til I'm through with my Master's degree). I keep telling them I'm only 26, I have PLENTY of time to multiply, but they keep casting hopeful eyes at us anyway. The other day I was at their house and came down with a touch of food poisoning, and my mom hopefully suggested that it might be morning sickness!

I had a difficult talk with myself, last week. I finally admitted that the things I had been trying to do--the ways I had been trying to cheat the program--weren't working. I think, actually, what made me finally admit it was your comment, "Certainly overeating and whining about it isn't working." It wasn't directed specifically at me, of course, but it had an impact anyway! I wrote and wrote and wrote and got all my frustration out, and admitted everything, and made some resolutions. Which, btw, have been going brilliantly well. I know all through these last 6 months I've been saying the same thing, but it feels like it really happened this time. I'm back at 123 instead of trying to sneak around WP, and more importantly I've admitted that I have to do this for the rest of my life. I can't just call it quits and hope to hold on. I will ALWAYS have to pay attention. And DH, bless him, can have as many fits as he likes and spout about how Southern Californian women are too thin as much as he wants. ME getting MY weight under control is important to ME, and it always will be.

So, I didn't get a chance to get to a meeting last week, I got a call at about 7:30am the day of my meeting to the effect that my grandfather and great uncle were expected in town that evening. So I skipped my meeting to go see them, but they never showed up. The rest of the meetings that week were either during class or work hours, so I had to call it a miss for the week. BUT, this thursday night is clear, darn it, and I'll make it.

I'm still here, don't forget me! Even if I don't write too often, I read everything and think all of you are marvelous!

07-30-2001, 01:08 PM
Yo turtle buds!

Sorry I haven't been around much lately, but I'm glad to see that everyone is doing well - lots of losses in the weight department and lots of gains in the life department for everyone!

I had a loss two weigh-ins ago, down 4 lbs to 284. Then I went home and took a pregnancy test because I was almost a week late, and it came up positive! I stopped taking the pill almost a year ago and we were careful for a while, but we we took some chances and nothing happened for months, so I stopped worrying about it and we wanted to have one eventually anyway, so we stopped being careful. So I guess we were trying to get pregnant, but not being very methodical about it.

Anyway, I'm a little worried about my weight. I'm REALLY HAPPY I've lost almost 50 pounds. I'm going to the ob on Thursday, and my family doctor says not to worry, that my health is excellent otherwise, so my goal right now is not to gain much weight and to eat well and exercise (moderately). At my last weigh-in I stayed the same, and I would be delighted with that for the next couple of months. We're due March 25 and I'll keep checking in, wish us luck!

332/284/healthy pregnancy

PS - does anyone have experience being pregnant or know someone who has been when they're 50 - 100 lbs (or more) overweight?

Lauren H
07-30-2001, 05:44 PM
Congratulations, Kimmers!! That's wonderful!! I'm sure your OB can tell you what to expect and help you along. Here's a link I just found about plus-size pregnancy: http://pregnancy.about.com/cs/plussizepregnanc/ No idea what's there, but maybe it'll help. Keep in touch! You can certainly still exercise, so that will help.

Mousie, great to see you, as always. Good for you, having that hard talk with yourself. I love your "don't bother me zone" in the shower! That's great. Mine is the front porch on Saturday mornings. I take a book out there, and DH leaves me alone. It's heavenly.

Judy, I can feel your excitement from here! :) Is this your first grandkid? Italian food always salts me up, too. Hopefully that will pass quickly. Try lemon juice in your water.

Not much new here. I walked 2 miles this morning (with video), points are fine. I'm debating using my banked points today or just letting them go (they expire tomorrow, since I banked them almost a week ago). We'll see if I'm hungry tonight.

Onward and downward,


Lin S
07-30-2001, 07:15 PM
Hi, Turtles,

Mousie and Kimmers--welcome back! It's great to hear from you.

Congratulations, Kimmers. I was overweight when I got pregnant with each of my kids, more so with the second. I don't remember how many pounds, though. It's a pretty difficult issue to deal with, though, because so often people get caught up in the total number of pounds you weigh. You need to get to the right balance because not gaining enough is as bad as gaining too much and the doctors all seem to have conflicting opinions about what that "magical" number is. You will get hungrier and the key is to feed yourself the heathiest foods you can. And work with your doctor. Have him/her recommend a nutritionist, if you both think that would help.

Mousie, here's a bunch of positive vibes for both of our dhs. May the job gods smile on them! ;)

I think it's funny that your dh thinks So. Ca. women are too thin. Of course, for you, the issue isn't the other women, anyway! Maybe if you reassure
him that getting that emaciated look isn't your goal, he'll feel better about what you're trying to accomplish. And way to go about figuring out what you need to do. I do better with 123, also. And I've read a lot of posts from people who feel the same way.

Lauren, way to go on the exercise. And on doing well with points. I'm looking forward to reading about some positive numbers-- dress sizes, scales, whatever.

I do understand about wanting to go off alone for a month. I used to just take off for an afternoon all alone when my family got on my nerves too much. Although I'm an extrovert by nature, I'm also writer and many of my hobbies are solitary activities. I've noticed that regardless of personality type, all of the creative people I know crave time alone.

The baked bean recipe has a pretty standard base of ingredients. But it's got some added punch with chili pepper. It also bakes all day in the oven, which affects the flavor. It's from a cookbook called "America the Beautiful". The recipe is the Chuckwagon bean recipe. I like the cookbook because the recipes are really good and it's also a beautiful coffe table type book--the usual gorgeous photos and a lot of extra information. I like the whole series, but can't afford to collect them all.

Judy, it's so great that the Wendie Plan is working so well for you. And that you can fit it so easily into your life. Looking forward to hearing about that grandkid. ;)

I've experienced a strange thing lately. I'm about 1-2 pounds up, but it's PMS and I'm retaining water. Which means I'm pretty much maintaing my weight. I haven't been counting points, but I've been very careful to get in those fruits and veggies. I've been a little lax about keeeping as strictly low fat as I was. What's weird is that over the past three weeks my hair is softer, my skin isn't as dry and I'm not finding as much hair on my comb in the morning. I had thought that those things were age/hormone related.

I'm beginning to think I need to use a few more points on fats. I'm wondering if the WW admonition to use 2-3 points on added fats assumes that you're eating a traditional American meat and potatoes type diet, which is naturally higher in fat from the meat. I need to play with this idea to find out how many added fats I really need. I'm thinking that it depends on what I'm eating. I'd need less on days I eat meat or other food that's naturally higher in fat than on days I eat vegetarian or eat fish (which is lower in fat). I'll let you all know what happens as I experiment a little.

Hope you're all doing well, including all of those folks who view the thread but don't post. Wish you'd check in once in a while. We love new people around here.

Happy turtlin'! :D


07-31-2001, 10:43 AM
Kimmers, Congratulations! :):):):) You've got the idea of healthy eating at your fingertips--fruits and veggies and a little fat and protein and carbs. No I'm NOT suggesting you diet through your pregnancy, but at least you have the resources, and the education now to make healthy decisions. Stay in touch!

Lin, interesting about the fat thing. I think WW didn't plan, with 123, for members to be QUITE as gung-ho as they were, finding 'magic' high fiber foods, maximizing points, eating totally low fat, that sort of thing. I think they probably imagined it would be something like members would eat what they usually ate, just less of it, and have an ice cream cone once a week. Now with WP they imagine they've cut out the highest fiber foods and gotten us back to eating the way we "used" to, but there are those of us out here that didn't go back and are struggling! Good for you for realizing this and staying on 123. (Wish it had occured to me sooner!)

07-31-2001, 11:21 AM
Wow! Where to start?
First of all to the dh's of Lin and Mousie--good luck on your job searches.

We all need time to recharge--luckily I'm an early bird and my dh is a night owl, so I have a lot of time in the a.m.~ heavenly. This baby will officially make me a first time grandma. My daughter-in-law has a son from a previous marriage, so I am a third grandma to him, but this baby will be the first one in our little family.

you and your dh have to figure out when the time is right for children for you both. But I sure know how your parents feel. The idea of a new, little, cuddly one in the family is almost more than I can stand!
I am so glad you really looked at what you were doing, analyzed what needed to be done, and wrote aout all your frustrations. Then you had the courage to make resolutions which will serve as the behaviors you want to follow and keep you on track. Way to go! We don't forget you--I'm not as busy as many of you right now, so I have the time to write. Just chime in when you can.
Also: I know you are "right on" about WW and the 123 plan and fiber, etc. Sometimes those of us wanting to lose weight can be ingenious about following the "rules." That's why a healthy eating plan works the best. Now I've gotta figure out how to lose weight as well. My WI is tomorrow morning, and I hope I've done well.

How exciting! Congratulations on your baby news!!!! Fifty pounds down is a wonderful help. I was more than 60 pounds overweight with my last child. I ate healthily and did fine. My doctor (24 years ago) had his aims for me and I did watch out for salt. I'm sure modern medicine has much better ideas today.
My daughter-in-law is probably 80 pounds overweight and has gotten through this pregnance by losing a total of 12 pounds. She is about to give birth. Her doc kept encouraging her to eat healthy. When we had pizza, she had salad with protein, etc. I'm proud of her and the sonogram shows a healthy, alert baby.

You're doing great. Yes, isn't it interesting how all or nothing eating can really affect us? I think it's amazing that you are noticing a change in skin and hair over such a relatively short period of time. Good luck with all you're doing. I hope you dh gets that job today!


07-31-2001, 01:34 PM
Hi turtleetts!!!

Sounds like we got some exciting news In lots of turtlettes lives!!!

Kimmers, that is so neat about the baby!!! I love babies!!! I can
't wait to be a grandma..Only my daughter is not even ready for a baby..All she is thinking about is going back to Kiev andthen coming home again to start a nursing program..When do we even have time for a baby...Kimmers my friend is pregnant right now, and she too is overweight..She did exactly what Judy's daughter in law is doing..She cut out all fast food, all sweets, and really concentrated of protein, fruits, vegs and calcuim, and she has gained like 10 lbs...That is hardly anything...I personally gained 12 lbs one month during my 2nd pregnancy, i was so embarrashed, I put myself on the above kind of food plan...No sweets, no cokes, only healthy food. I lost 2 lbs the next month, and gained only 1/2 lb each time I went in. So eating healthy and not too much is going to help you.

Judy!! You are so lucky!! A grandma..do your kids live in the same city or state? Or is this going to be a long distance thing.It will be that way when my daughter has kids...She does not like my town and we all think California is too expensive.

Lin, prayers are with you and the job in Santa Rosa...Now Seattle is nice too. I have been there, and think the place is great esp when it is sunny. I love the beach there along the sound, and I like takeing the ferry to someplace...(can't remember where it goes!!) BUT Seeing all the houses along the shore, and haveing an imagination!!! wow it is great.

Mousie...it is nice to hear from you again...Keep up the good work, and you will be one hot mamma from California!!!

Me? I am doing ok..these last 2 days have been high points day...Yesterday i snuck 2 cookies from my daughters basket, and decided that I must record them..guess how many points I wasted on 2 stupid cookies???4, isn't that awful..I will never do that again. I do not want to waist points like that.

I did go to the gym and it felt great except I did weights before I did the areobic machines..felt like i almost bonked (felt sick, hungry, sweatty, ...it is from exercising on an near emply stomach) I should not do that..I need to eat, then do my machines then the weights...not the other way around...that is what I will do today...

We had interesting news yesterday but I did not eat over it..You prob don't know this but my husband is disabled from a work comp case..He paid into a special long term disablity program while he was working, and now that he is disabled, he gets a nice chunk of change every month..Cool...Well guess what? althought we tell them exactly what we make, (sending them our tax return every year) they say since we also get social security, they over paid him so we owe them 28,000. Yes, 28,000/ It wasl ike the saddest day for us...We just can't believe they could be so stupid. why didn't they do what was right instead of give us too much..Do we have that much money laying around??? no way jose..we spent it...oh we have a tiny nest egg in the bank but it was from a passing uncle. Not from them, we spent there money...we have no idea where this will lead. We did hear they might accept 275 until the ltd runs out and and then forfit the rest, but with the way PG&E is messing with Jim, I wonder if that will happen. Only God know's and only He can get us out of this!!! Isn't this awful?? you should of heard my DH on phone, he usually is not a emotional person, but i could hear it in his voice that he was crying..My dh crying...it was horrible..I felt so bad for him. He just dosen't know what to think..and of course they lost the letter that told them they could check with SS to verify amounts..oh well. It is a very sad situation...will keep you informed..

Got to eat and get to the gym...

Bye to all


Lauren H
08-01-2001, 12:38 PM
Hi, folks. Quick update -- I was up a pound last night at weigh-in. It's not fat, since I've had a good week points- and exercise-wise. I blame it on the high humidity and heat we're having. Ah, well.

Kathy, I'm so sorry to hear about your financial woes. I hope you can find a good financial advisor to help you handle this mess. I've heard of it happening to other people, too, and there's usually something you can work out. But do find a good accountant quickly, if you haven't already. Good for you still doing healthy things for yourself in the middle of all that stress.

That's the thing, isn't it? We all have stress in our lives, sometimes a lot of it. Waiting until some ideal time to lose weight isn't going to work, not in the short-term (getting the weight off) or in the long term (keeping it off). I used to do that, and it obviously just didn't work -- too much daily stress!

Judy, how did your weigh-in go?

Lin, have you been eating more uncooked fat? I know that's supposed to be the ideal form for getting health benefits, and that's the 2-3 points that WW is talking about (I believe). That's interesting that you've seen changes so quickly, especially in your hair. The body sure is a mystery. I have very dry skin, always have had, so I don't ever see much difference there. But I've seen a huge difference in my hair when I get enough B vitamins, iron, and biotin. (Calcium interferes with the absorption of iron. But you probably knew that.)

Onward and downward,


08-01-2001, 06:17 PM
Sorry about the craziness of the workers comp., etc. There must be a way to figure this out with the help of an accountant and make a deal since this wasn't your error.

As far as my WI, I'm not happy. I had a perfect week on Wendie's Plan and I am up 1/2 #. Now usually I wouldn't like it, but I'd deal with it because I would have been losing all along. This time I have to deal with my anger because I am still trying to knock off the "fast weight" I put on and I only lost one pound last week and now half of that miserly loss is back. I'm not a happy camper and I am *still* not a grandma. Maybe tomorrow I'll have happier news.
Love ya' all,
Judy 234/thinner

Lin S
08-02-2001, 12:09 AM
Hi, Turtles,

I will write a post tomorrow about all of the interesting letters you've written. But I have to shut down my computer. We've been using it for a long time and it's smelling funny. Like it's a little hot, so we're going to let it cool off for a while.

I just wanted to quickly tell you all that we need to keep thinking positive thoughts and praying here. My dh had a good interview, but they've got more interviews scheduled. They're going to make up their mind sometime next week. Keeping our fingers, toes, and anything else crossed. :lol:

Thanks for all of your support. Hope things are great for you all, including the lurkers.

Happy turtlin'! :)


Lauren H
08-02-2001, 11:08 AM
Judy, I still have several pounds to go to lose the "quick gain" I had in June. And I gained a pound this week, even though I was within points. However -- it is August, and that means it's hot and humid, and that means the body bloats more than normal. (I'm not sure where you live, but it's definitely dog days here.) So don't let that weigh-in get you down.

As for me, I think I've learned a good lesson from this "quick gain" -- and that is that although it's very easy for me to quickly put on weight, it is appallingly slow getting it back off again. I think this has finally sunk in, and I intend to let it influence my decisions regarding future thinking along the lines of "Oh, it's OK if I eat over points today / stop counting / stop journaling / stop exercising. If I gain a little weight, it'll come right back off." NOT.

In other words, I am going to emblazon my new motto on my brain: "The price for freedom is eternal vigilance." I read that on this board many moons ago, and it's finally sinking in.

Lin, continuing to pray.


Lin S
08-02-2001, 04:03 PM
Hi, Turtles,

Mousie, I think that one of the issues that people who are promoting healthy programs to help people lose weight find hardest to deal with is that people keep looking for magic formulas that will take the weight off fast and keep it off with little effort. With 123 people used super low fat and lots of fiber as their formula. With WP, the formula seems to be eating a high protein food plan. This works, if it's a balanced food plan and if your particular metabolism responds well to that style of eating. But I really get frustrated when people try it and it doesn't work for them and they think they're doing something wrong. What's important is for each of us to find whatever our body responds to the best. That's not a quick process, as we've all discovered.

Judy, you've been experimenting with the Wendie Plan. When you try new things, you need to give them time to develop into a pattern. It can take a month or two before you really can tell how your body will respond, long-term, to this way of organizing your points. There are a lot of other factors that can cause a small gain. And what you do during a particular week may not show up on the scale for a while. Our brains like the organized thinking that what we do between weigh-ins affects only the next one. But our bodies aren't as orgainzed as our brains. Good luck!

We're all thinking of you and your family as you wait for that baby.

Kathy, we'll add you and your dh to our prayer list. I hope things get better. You have a very difficult situation to deal with. Bureaucracies are a pain to deal with.

It's great that you've figured out how to deal with your exercise the best way. Way to go!

You can follow those higher point days with a couple of lower points and it will balance out better.

Lauren, isn't it a pain to have so many things that make us retain water? PMS, heat and humidity, too much sodium!

You're so right about the stress! I'm not really counting points, etc. right now, but stress isn't the reason. My problem is the money issue right now. What I can afford is the higher fat cuts of meat. So, I cook that and balance it by alternating it with bean and other low-fat vegetarian dishes. So, far, so good. I'm not sure how I'm doing weight wise because of PMS bloat, but I'm only up a couple of pounds, which is a good sign.

Hey, why don't you put your new motto as your signature line on your posts. Then you'll be reading it every time you post. It could help you to keep the thought in mind as you go through your day.

Happy turtlin'! :cool:


08-02-2001, 05:09 PM
Of course you guys are right. I dared to weigh myself at home this morning and yesterday must have been fluid, etc. because I was down a true pound at home today. Did I ever tell you that *patience* is not my strong suit? LOL.
So, I am going to tweak the Wendie Plan with higher protein after taking the week 6 WW plan quiz and reminding myself that carbs are not the best way to go. I am also going to * foods in my journal as I eat them if they are not what I would consider healthy foods. For example, I'll * Lay's Baked Chips even though they are okay and I have the points. I don't want to fool myself.

Many thanks to all of you with your good advice. Yes, we are still waiting to become grandparents. Poor Tiffany--it is so hot again .
We have high hopes that today is the day because she is going to her doc.

You are all in my prayers. You are the best. Lauren, I am so glad dh did well in interview. Let's have a positive outcome here!
Kimmers, enjoy your pregnancy! Lin, thanks for letting me know that your "fast gain" isn't gone. I thought I was the only one. Please repeat that great sentence again because it will help me not to slip so much. Kathy, keep on keepin' on. I hope it helps you to know that I'm so proud of you and your correct eating even though you and you dh have to handle that problem.

I'll write as soon as I know and can get to a computer.

Lin S
08-03-2001, 05:11 PM
Hi, Turtles,

Judy, good going to take the quiz before deciding to do the high protein plan. I hope the tweaking makes it work better for you. Good luck!

Well, dh got a disappointing phone call yesterday. They've chosen someone else. We were grateful that they called, though, because most of the time if the answer is no, you don't hear anything. So, we're back to square one with no job prospects in sight. We turned in our notice on our apartment. We can't depend on the gov't to be there when that rent comes due again in September and we don't want September 1 to come along and be without the rent money. The gov't agencies make us turtles look like the hares. You could starve waiting for them to process the paperwork and get you some help! We're planning to move in with my mother since we have nowhere else to go right now. It's a really depressing and discouraging time for us.

I'm doing OK, though. Despite PMS, I'm not going crazy with chocolate or salty chips. I think that the calcium really is helping. It's a little hard for me to keep up with it because I tend to forget to take it. But I'm getting better and it is making a difference.

I really hope all of you are doing well. Hi, to all of you who read our threads. I hope they help you in some way on your journey.

Happy turtlin'! :)


Lauren H
08-03-2001, 06:11 PM
Lin, that's so disappointing. I can only imagine how hard it must've been to give your notice on the apartment. This was the Santa Rosa job, I take it? Is the Seattle job still a possibility?

We will continue to pray, of course, and now we'll also pray that your time staying with your mom will be brief and that good things will come from it. That's a verse that helps me in times like this -- "All things work to good for those that love God." Hard to see how sometimes, I know.

Judy, I'm going to steal your idea and put asterisks next to foods that I eat that aren't nutritious. There have been a lot of them lately, and in spite of staying within my points I suspect I'm not going to lose much weight.

We're going to an Indian restaurant tonight (my choice; tomorrow's my birthday, and my brother told me he'd take me out to dinner tonight). I've already looked at the menu online and have decided on Tandoori chicken, which is essentially chicken baked in yogurt. It's easily the lightest item on the menu. I still plan to eat the side dishes and the dessert, because -- hey, it's my birthday! But I'm trying to work somewhat healthier choices in there, too.

Have a good weekend, everyone.


08-04-2001, 09:52 AM
I'm sorry about dh's job possibility in CA and its outcome. I'll keep praying that your situation gets much better much faster.

Happy Birthday! Can you hear me singing? Enjoy the Indian food and really have a great birthday!

Okay, you can call me Grandma! Tiffany had baby Claire at 3:30pm yesterday. After a long labor, she needed a C-section after all, so I feel sorry for Tiffany. That couldn't have been fun.
I do thank her for bringing this new baby into our world. We'll be heading up there to meet Claire and kiss and hold her. I can't wait!
Thanks for all the good wishes. My son assures me that Claire is adorable!

Lauren H
08-06-2001, 12:51 PM
Judy, congratulations!! I love the name Claire.

Had a good weekend in terms of enjoyability, not in terms of the program. Will most likely gain again this week. Bums me out. I didn't binge or anything, but I wasn't within my points.

Well, each day is a new day.

How's everyone doing?


Lin S
08-06-2001, 06:52 PM
Hi, Turtles,

Congratulations, Judy! Tell Tiffany that we turtles are pulling for her fast recovery. A C-section is not the most fun way to begin motherhood, I understand from friends who have had them. And pass along our congratulations for her new journey. Being a mom has been my favorite job in my whole life. I hope she enjoys it as much as I did.

Happy birthday, Lauren. Indian food is super! Glad you enjoyed it.

Things are about the same. I doubt the Seattle job is still a possibility, Lauren. It's been reposted online and usually if they're interested they get moving on it pretty quickly.

The only new thing is that my mother is planning to move her trailer to an RV park for us to live in until we have jobs and can move back into a place of our own. I think she's living in fantasyland, though. She's remembering that it cost them $350 per mo. to do that when they were finishing the remodel of their house. That was 8-10 years ago! She thinks it's still that cheap! I seriously doubt we can afford the rent on the unemployment checks, which is what she is thinking will happen. So, I don't know what will happen when she gets that sticker shock of increasing prices.

My brother is moving into her second bedroom after his surgery, so she doesn't think there's room for us, too. It is a small house, but we could manage if we had to. Chris has made arrangements to live with his friend and go back to his old high school for his senior year. That is really tearing at me. I don't want to miss his whole senior year in high school. But, unless we can find jobs/housing in that area, we will have no choice.

I'm really down today. We've been putting off packing because we keep hoping for a miracle. But that's not coming. So, tomorrow we have to go to SJ and work things out with my mom. I need to know where I'm going so I know whether I need to keep out basic dishes, etc. for the trailer or if I'm moving in with her and need to store everything. It's not fun, ladies. I pray none of you ever face this total uncertainty in your lives.

I hope you all will post again soon. I was surprised not to see more posts, but then I realized it was the weekend and people don't tend to post as much then. Looking forward to catching up as you all come back to the turtle club.

Happy turtlin'! :)


08-07-2001, 04:01 AM
Hi Turtles..!!!

Kathy here. Congradultions Judy...On that baby grand daughter!!! I can't wait to get one my self..Hope you can visit often. I had a c-secton 2 times...the first was like Tiffinay's...after a long labor...but you know what??? it was ok. My second was a planned c section (small inside pelvic measurments so baby got stuck) and it was so much fun planning for the big day which i knew 6 month before hand..I was very very exciting. I did miss the idea of feeling that push feeling and actually getting to push the baby out but I am over it..well I had better be..it was 26 years ago on the 14th!!! I am sure in time, Tif will get over any sad feelings about not haveing it natural..Heck she did the hard part..she went thru labor!!!

Lin, I am so sorry about the job in Santa Rosa...what a total bummer. But as these ladies all said, things will be brighter when you turn the corner of these difficulties...I hope it works out that you can stay in the trailer..and the price is nottoo high..my dh and sil are staying in my travel trailer in my front yard. It is ok so far...I have not gotten into her ice cream yet!!!

I personally had an interesting weekend..It started on thursday..I lost .4 lbs!~!! so I am down 4.4~!!! yea...i was very happy...but then Sat came, and I went to my 30 year class reunion...It was an ok night..I wanted it to be more fun, but knew that it wouldn't from the start..ever have one of thoes nights??? It was a class reunion with 3 classes...I was the bottom class and didn't know very many from the upper grades..and that is becasue i only went to school there for the last year...I did meet up witht some nice people, but had to leave at a decent hour (12 am) while they carried on in the bar which i would have loved to do be never do i do it!!! I call myself a closet partier...I always want to but it never works out that I do...i think someone is trying to tell me that it just isn't right for me, but I keeep thinking just once in awhile it would be fun...I did drinka few beers, and feel great, and did drive home with no problem..I just wish it could have been more fun.. I am kinda of a shy person, and when a place is crowded, it is hard to get a word in edge wide...it is always that way with me in a big crowd...we people get over powered...but anyway, it is over and I am back on track...I went to thy gym today, and did my machines for 1/2 hour but it was a very sweatty 1/2 hour...ate good and drank water..

I might have to miss my WI on thursda since I am thinking of taking my 83 year old mother and my sister to Reno for the night..She only lives in Sac, and that is 2 hours from Reno, so we will take her on an adventure and stay the night there, and come home the next day..It has always been a fantasy of mine..to drive to Reno..We are not going to actually go into the town though. We are going to stay in boontown which is the first big casino past the border...I think it willbe a good start, and if we like it we can go somewhere elsenext time...

Well you allhave a nice Tuesday..


Lauren H
08-07-2001, 05:11 PM
Hi, all. BOY, have I been doing rotten the past few days -- and this morning I was up 3 whopping pounds from last week. I'm really not looking forward to my WW weigh-in tonight. I sure hope at least some of that is water weight from eating Asian food three times in the past five days-- and the very hot and humid weather.


On the bright side, I was able to do a strength-training workout this morning with weights -- for the first time since I hurt my arm in April! That was very encouraging. I realized, though, that all this exercise I've been doing has put me in far better shape than the last time I did this video -- I've outgrown it!

Lin, I hope the trailer will work out. Would Chris be able to live with you in the trailer? Shoot, for $350/month you could take the trailer to a campground and hook up to water and electric there! :) Here's hoping it's not so high. You're still on our daily prayer list.


08-07-2001, 09:59 PM
Hey turtles!

Thanks, everyone, for the good wishes. Your support really means a lot to me. I may not be posting as often now, but you are all in my thoughts.

I actually just bought a turtle necklace - it's a carved green stone.

Welcome to the world, Baby Claire! Congratulations and I hope the C-section heals quickly.

Lin - things will get better - good job with your food plan. I know you're doing everything you can to help yourself and your family through this difficult time. Take a break a treat yourself, if you can - maybe something as simple as a long walk without thinking about any of this.

At my WI on Saturday, my leader told me that I would also not be allowed to attend meetings, but to call the 800# and see what they say. I'll let you know how it turns out.

I actually lost four pounds this week and got my 50# star, but since I had stayed the same the week before, I bet I was retaining some water then. I'm still feeling fine, but I am getting hungrier. I'm actually eating pretty well - no candy bars or junk food yet. I did have some blueberry pie that I made for a family reunion, but I made it without a lot of sugar or fat, and lots of healthy, yummy blueberries.

I'm also adding milk, protein and fruit points, and have set a goal about 6 points higher than my WW range. I did well on that last week, but have been over every day so far this week. I'm going to try and calm down a little.

Lauren, Kathy and everyone - Keep on turtlin'!

332/280/healthy pregnancy

Lauren H
08-08-2001, 11:11 AM
Kimmers, sounds like you're doing very well, given your new condition. :) Maybe even just tracking what you eat will help during your pregnancy.

My weigh-in last night wasn't as horrible as my home WI -- I was up less than a pound. I'm going to take a good, hard look at what I'm eating, since I suspect that my food choices are contributing to my lack of progress.

On the bright side, I took my measurements this morning, and they're slightly down. So the exercise is paying off and I am indeed building muscle. I also just got a bunch of Richard Simmons videos, and I can't wait to try them. I find him irritating in interviews or talk shows, but he really cheers me up when I'm exercising. Great music, fun routines.

It's only 10 a.m. here and it's already 85. We're supposed to get up to 100 or more today, which is highly unusual for Michigan! Fortunately tomorrow is the last day of this -- highs in the 70s this weekend. Hallelujah!

How is everyone?


08-09-2001, 08:54 AM
Hi All,
It's great to hear from you. It's a week after my poor WW WI and I'm much happier. I lost 1.2# this week and that gets me back on track.

It's just great that you are keeping track of food and essential minerals for yourself. I know these are very hard times for you and your family and you are in my prayers.

You're doing great with your weight loss. It's interesting that you mentioned the big party you went to and what you do in comparison to what you'd like to do. I think it's amazing that you went to the reunion at all. I would never have the nerve to go to one of my high school reunions. You're tops! I am not shy, but I'm real deficient in the small talk category, so I much prefer small groups--no more than 4 couples at a time. Congrats on the exercise and new adventures and activities.

I love that you bought a turtle necklace. I may just go to eBay and see if I can get myself one. What a great idea! My WW leader said WW can't take the liability with pregnant clients because the developing babies need folic acid in their diet. It seems to me if you boost your points and eat well you'll be way ahead when your baby comes. This is so exciting! Good luck to you on this wonderful trip.

You're doing great. Asian food can boost the water retention beyond belief! It looks like you got it all under control again and only gained 1# at your WI. Good luck. I know what a struggle this is. It's so odd. At times it's actually easy and at other times it's like pulling teeth. We ARE doing this! I'm glad you included your sentence about vigilance and freedom in your signature. It's a huge daily help to me.

Everyone: At my WW meeting we went over the following ideas:
1. How do you keep satisfied? Did you read all books and take quizzes to see how often and what t ypes of food might work best?

2. Is is a physical or emotional hunger?

3. Are you drinking enough water?

4. Do you have a *bankroll* of simple recipes and snacks for very low point foods to fill you in?

5. Have you pinpointed when you get hungry and have you alloted points for those times?
Good meeting--hope these reminders help

08-09-2001, 10:56 AM
Hi Turtles!!!

Sounds like we are still plugging along, winning the race...I kinda feel heavy today..I don't know why...I had my white knit pedal pushers on yesterday and they felt soo tight around the tummy..I felt so sad!!! today it is off to Reno, but starting SAt..it will be WW heavy duty..I will eat good in Reno but there might be a few out of point items..but come Sat!!! watch out..Think my problemis that Ihave been using the points computer instead of writeing them down..I think I need to do both. That will be my goal for the next week, write and compute...

Kimmers...are you not allowed to come to meeting??? If not, i think they are studpid..they should let your doctor decided..you may really need the meetings to keep you from going overboard..believe me, once that baby get kicking and if your appetite come alive, you might in your pregnant mind tht you are eating for two and do it...and you don't need to...you just eat what the doctor says and you will prob gain hardly anything..It is the skinny girls that gain all the weight..but unfortunely for us...they lose it all too, 7 days after they give birth, they are back into their size 3 jeans...I hate them girls!!! but what am i worried about!!! I am in my late 40's and babies are for other peope. and not mine!!! but it stil amazes me that some gals just go back to that pre baby size just like that..I am still packing around my baby fat (plus some) and my daughter is 23...

Well yu all take care, and as for me...it is off to Reno in an hour..need to clean up the kitchen and make sure my dh is taken care of...i am glad my dd & sil will be here to keep him company..Talk Friday night after the fair...(dd wedding picture took a 2nd at the fair..isn't that great???)