General Diet Plans and Questions - metabolife and ww




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ncmom
07-16-2001, 02:36 PM
IS there anyone else who is using metabolife to help lose the weight. I am also doing ww on my own but metabolife helps with my appetite.

I hope to talk to others like me

Sue


Fearless
07-17-2001, 08:05 PM
Be very careful, the ephedra in this junk has caused more than a few deaths.

aphil
07-25-2001, 10:39 AM
Hello,
You should stop using that product! Ephedra is very dangerous-it causes heart fluttering and palpitations, and can cause stroke! It has killed some users! It is also used under the names ephedrine,Ma Huang, and Siberian Ginseng! It was originally used as an asthme medication in minute doses, until someone found you could use it to get a speed buzz!
This is the same substance used in the gas station speed pills called mini-thins! Read any diet supplement you are taking for any of the above names!
Worried about your health,
Aphil


Velda
07-25-2001, 11:28 AM
if you pay close attention to your own body, do not have any major health problems (especially cardiovascular and endocrine system) and do not exceed the recommended dosages, you will find ephedra to be very useful and safe. It curbs appetite and increases metabolism, I've used it with excellent results.

The important thing is to know exactly how much you are getting. The articles I've read say no more than 75mg, spread in three doses per day. I started with just two doses, and now I just take one in the morning (25mg) with breakfast. This produces (for me) an appetite supression that lasts most of the day, with a steady weight loss of about 2-3 lbs a week. At first I did notice a little hand tremor, but no worse than I'd get from drinking 2 cups of coffee. And that goes away. The people that have died from this had uncontrolled heart problems and/or diabetes, and most of them were taking WAY more than the 75mg (which I stay way below anyway). As for being frightened away by the fact that it's sold in gas stations...****, they sell twinkies there too...and cigarrettes...and beef jerky...maybe we should stage a boycott. Overdosing is extremely dangerous, but careful use is remarkably effective.

Just make sure that you're eating healthy food, and drinking plenty of water. Look up some information about the ingredients in your Metabolift, and you will find the ephedra, the caffeine (guarana), and some aspirin (willow bark). This is the combination known as the ECA stack, which has been used for years - lots of research on it.

Cheers - Velda

aphil
07-25-2001, 02:40 PM
Velda,
I agree you may have had great results with ephedra-but I am one person who was not taking above 75mg and still had problems. It is not the same as regular caffeinefound in soda.
My mother took Dexatrim original formula for years when I was a kid, and they have just this past year taken it off the market. She never had a problem with it, but there are a lot who did-the same thing goes for Phen-Fen.
Consider yourself lucky that you have gotten the results you have with this-and with all my heart I hope you do not have any problems with it in the future. I just hope the lady who started the thread has the same results as you, and no complications.
I care about all my fellow weight watchers, and just like them to be informed that there is SOME risk in these supplements.
We have to stick together and keep each other out of harm's way whenever possible-you know the manufacturer's and advertiser's aren't going to tell us about any risk, no matter how big or small.
Whether or not we choose to use pills along with our diet is our own decision, but I would feel terrible if something happened to someone who I could have warned.
I care for you all-on both sides of this issue!:)
Aphil

Velda
07-25-2001, 06:37 PM
What problems did you experience?

I didn't mean to imply that it's the same as caffeine - it's a completely different substance. I just said that the initial jitteriness was similar to what I'd feel if I had two cups of coffee.

Best wishes for us all...

lakelog
07-25-2001, 07:35 PM
:wave: Another Ephedra user here. I never realized Metabolife had so much in it. Didn't someone say 25 mg per tablet? I used it for almost 2 years myself. I switched last July to AM-300 which has 12 mg Ephedra per caplet at the request of my GYN. I have never had any side effects what so ever except for the fact that IF I don't take one at all, I sleep all day. I guess that says that it keeps me energetic enough to not fall on the couch after work. I did have somewhat of a nervous feeling when I first would take the Metabolife. As long as I didn't skip a day, I would never have any "feelings" at all. I have lost 52 pounds in this past year which to me is a safe loss. I don't expect to be able to hold my loss without taking them for long but I have been 17 days before and not gain an ounce. Like the Aphil said before, I hope we all don't have anything bad to happen. Good luck to us all.

Dana
budsysmith@hotmail.com
256/204/156

aphil
07-26-2001, 12:23 AM
Dana,
What makes you beleive that you cannot keep off the weight if you stop taking the supplement?
I beleive you can do so, but after taking them for so long you are going to notice withdrawal symptoms like you mentioned about wanting to sleep all day. What exercise are you doing? If you up your exercise level you will be more tired initially, but after a few days your energy level will actually come up.
There are some safer alternatives to up your metabolism-cinnamon,cayenne pepper,and grapefruit extract are available as supplements, or you can include them in your diet.
Vel,
The symptoms I experienced were sudden very strong heart palpitations that you could actually see through my chest if I removed my shirt that made me dizzy, faint, nautious, and short of breath. I also had constant light-headedness and jitteriness. When they would wear off I was so exhausted I slept for hours.
The doctor told me to stop taking them immediately, as they were affecting my cardiovascular system.
Take Care,
Aphil

MrsJim
07-26-2001, 10:15 AM
Don't forget that the effects of Ephedra wear off as your body gets accustomed to having it in your system.

My personal opinion on the stuff is that it does not really help to 'burn fat' - it merely speeds up your heart rate, causing you to feel as if you have more energy and increase your athletic performance level, which may cause you to burn more calories.

Athletic organizations such as IOC and US Cycling recognize ephedrine as a performance enhancer and have banned its use in their events - if an athlete tests positive for it, then they are DQ'd or banned altogether (much like steriod or cocaine use).

Here's the warning from a popular ephedrine product, EAS Betalean HP - check out the part I've indicated in bold if you don't want to read the rest:

WARNING: Not for use by individuals under the age of 18. Do not use if pregnant or nursing. Consult a physician or licensed qualified health care professional before using this product if you have, or have a family history of, heart disease, angina, thyroid disease, diabetes, high blood pressure, recurrent headaches, bleeding disorder, depression or other psychiatric condition, glaucoma, difficulty in urinating, prostate enlargement, or seizure disorder, if you are using a monoamine oxidase inhibitor (MAOI) or any other dietary supplement, prescription drug or over-the-counter drug containing ephedrine, pseudoephedrine or phenylpropanolamine (ingredients found in certain decongestants, allergy, asthma, cough/cold and weight control products). The maximum recommended serving of ephedrine for a healthy adult is 100 mg in a 24-hour period for not more than 12 weeks. Cycle using this product as follows: Not more than 12 weeks use then discontinue use for at least two weeks. Exceeding the recommended serving or use restrictions may cause serious adverse health effects including heart attack and stroke. Side effects may include insomnia, nervousness, or hand-tremor. Discontinue use and call a physician or licensed qualified health care professional immediately if you experience rapid heartbeat, dizziness, severe headache, shortness of breath or other similar symptoms. Individuals who consume caffeine, or other stimulants, with this product may experience serious adverse health effects. Keep out of the reach of children. Improper use of this product may be hazardous to health. Improper use of this product includes but is not limited to: Use of the product other than as recommended, exceeding recommended single serving size or the maximum serving per 24-hour period, use of the product for more than 12-weeks, use of this product in combination with aspirin, any anti-coagulant (blood thinner), or any other ephedrine group alkaloid or caffeine alkaloid or other ingredients that have a known stimulant effect. Such products may include prescription drug or over-the-counter drugs used as decongestants or for allergy, asthma, cough/cold or weight control and certain dietary supplements and herbal or botanical products that have a stimulant effect. Do not use with alcohol. Do not use if you have a history of drug abuse. Do not fast when taking BetaLean HP.


Just FYI...

Velda
07-30-2001, 10:53 AM
i do agree that ephedra is something to be used with a lot of care, and as I approach my goal i wouldn't want to stay on it forever. i will wean myself off after about the next 30 lbs, and maybe start taking something like cayenne or HCA (garcinia cambogia), or CLA (conjugated linolenic acid) i have noticed a bit of withdrawal, but I cycle off of it every week for a day or two.

but right now it's working pretty good. thanks Mrs Jim, for taking the time to post that whole warning label. too many people don't read labels. and it would be my dream of dreams to be banned from a sport for any reason other than excessive fatness. :p

QuilterInVA
07-30-2001, 04:32 PM
How sad people don't have enough confidence in themselves to lose weight without resorting to drugs. They certainly won't be able to keep it off because they haven't made the necessary lifestyle changes.

lakelog
07-30-2001, 05:45 PM
I actually gained 100 pounds due to a "drug". I have no problem resorting to herbal caplets for weight loss. Especially when my own ob-gyn suggested it. I haven't had anything since Wednesday and all I do is lay on the couch after work. The same thing I did for 6 years prior to losing weight.

I hope to get started back soon. Mine are on back order and until the meantime, I don't have the energy to do anything but sleep. I have lost 52 pounds and hope they will stick with me for 48 more.

Dana
budsysmith@hotmail.com
256/204/156

MrsJim
07-31-2001, 04:59 PM
If you're tired after work - I would definitely recommend exercising - preferably in the morning. And by exercise I mean heart-pounding, sweaty, exercise - walking, jogging, biking, hitting the gym - whatever floats your boat. Get those endorphins working in the AM and they'll keep you going all day!

Another thing you might try is checking how many simple carbs (sugars, flour products, etc) you're eating. Something tells me that you may be suffering from a sugar crash in the afternoon. Many people have a sugary snack after lunch thinking that will get them going, and it does for a short time - only to send them crashing down again!

Like I said before, your body will become immune to the effects of ephedrine fairly quickly so it's not really a great idea to rely on it to keep you awake...you don't want to take it for the rest of your life do you (not to mention how unhealthy that would be!)

Take care!

Phoebe
08-02-2001, 08:06 AM
I agree with Susan, I have lost 90 pounds by walking and eating sensibly and healthily and have never taken any drugs or diet pills. It can be done. Even if you feel you have a lot to lose, its easier to lose weight when you are heavier than when you are nearer to goal.

I think if you do decide to carry on taking the supplements (thankfully products like this are banned in the UK), then be careful and listen to the excellent advice given on here by Mrs Jim.

MrsJim
08-02-2001, 10:11 AM
Just want to say here that I'm not trying to put down anyone's method of losing weight, rather I feel it's important to be informed about how your bod is effected by what you put into it (food, drugs, water, etc) and how you work it (exercise).

The reason I posted the warning label from an ephedrine product is to show that even the manufacturers warn the consumer NOT to take this product for more than a limited amount of time. Think about it - they have the most to gain from you taking the product on a continuous basis...I still maintain that ephedrine is NOT a fat burner but a performance enhancer...

If you really want to educate yourself on how the body works, I would strongly suggest clicking on this website www.hussman.com/eas . This site was originally set up for those on the Body for Life program, but there is information that could apply to everyone (warning - it's a lot of reading...but very interesting IMO!).

Regarding my previous post on fatigue and blood sugar, here's an excerpt from the Hussman site regarding insulin that you may find informative:

Insulin is one of the main anabolic hormones in the body. The only way that glucose (sugar) can get into the cells to be used as energy is for it to be accompanied by a little insulin guy. Insulin does two things: it says "Hey, we've got sugar in the bloodstream here. Stop burning fat so that we can get rid of this stuff first." And then the insulin helps to transport the sugar into the cells.

So insulin is "anabolic". It helps the muscle cells to get fed. Well, muscle cells and fat cells. If your muscle glycogen stores are full, insulin feeds your fat cells instead. If you spike your insulin higher by eating a significant amount of simple carbohydrates (such as sugar) when your energy stores are full, the excess carbs are converted to fat and escorted to your hips. The insulin then causes a subsequent plunge in blood glucose, often followed by fatigue. Brain cells can't store glucose, so that plunge in blood glucose can also cause dizziness. So, too much sugar and you may find yourself saying "I'm fat because I'm tired, and I'm tired because I'm fat." Bottom line: insulin is triggered by the consumption of simple carbohydrates. Except when you want to intentionally spike your insulin levels, you should choose carbohydrates that trigger a minimal release of insulin. These are called low-glycemic carbohydrates.

Low glycemic carbs are generally ones that are attached to fiber. Think "unprocessed". Carbs that are detached from fiber are digested much more rapidly and cause that spike in blood glucose. Lack of fiber is also by far the most common cause of irregularity. Here are a few examples of low & high glycemic foods:

Low glycemic: apples, oranges, pears, bananas (firm) and other whole, low-sugar fresh fruits, oatmeal, brown rice, whole-wheat pasta, bran cereal, barley, bulgur, basmati, Kashi and other whole grains, beans, peas (esp. chick and black-eyed), lentils, whole corn, potato with skin (a little higher glycemic than other choices, but OK), yams, milk (preferably low-fat), and other partial-protein carbohydrates such as yogurt and soy.

High glycemic: fruit juice, white bread, most "wheat" bread (which is usually just white bread with a little fiber added), white rice, bagels, croissants, cornflakes, cake, candy, sugary drinks, beer.

Amarantha2
08-04-2001, 02:50 AM
Originally posted by aphil
Hello,
You should stop using that product! Ephedra is very dangerous-it causes heart fluttering and palpitations, and can cause stroke! It has killed some users! It is also used under the names ephedrine,Ma Huang, and Siberian Ginseng! It was originally used as an asthme medication in minute doses, until someone found you could use it to get a speed buzz!
This is the same substance used in the gas station speed pills called mini-thins! Read any diet supplement you are taking for any of the above names!
Worried about your health,
Aphil


Agreed with all of the above EXCEPT the part about Siberian ginseng is another name for ephedra. Siberian ginseng is a completely different herb and has nothing to do with ephedra, to my knowledge anyway, which isn't all that much. I could be wrong ... can you give me a citation as to why you say this? :)

About ephedra, I personally don't understand why anyone would take even the smallest of risks that they might have an undetected health problem and have an adverse reaction to ephedra ... which IMO has been linked with some deaths. While many people may use it successfully and with no problem and even be helped by it, it's a game of Russian roulette to swallow a pill and wonder if you just might be the one in a thousand that it will kill.

Why take the risk?

MrsJim
08-04-2001, 10:13 AM
Liked your post! I don't know why I didn't address that discrepancy myself.

Another thing I wanted to add is that using a supplement to 'burn fat' (again, I don't believe that ephedra does this but I can type that until my fingers fall off and noone will believe it!) is really a 'crutch' for many people - and will only lead to disappointment. It's so easy to become hooked on the 'rush' of ephedrine - because after all, it's just unrefined speed, isn't it? (Ephedrine is the main ingredient in crystal meth).

Many people feel that if something is 'natural' it can't possibly hurt them...there are a lot of natural things out there that can hurt you (poison ivy, foxglove leaves, etc) and I believe that ma huang is one of those products.

Full disclosure here - I take supplements myself. But I know that they are no substitute for good old eating right and working out!

Furthermore, none of the supplements I take are purported to help lose weight or burn fat -- I take Glutamine (an amino acid) to combat muscle soreness and avoid muscle breakdown; Creatine (another amino acid) to get an extra 'pump' in my muscles during weightlifting; EFA oils to help with digestion and meet my EFA requirements; and a multivitamin (from Trader Joe's) just to make sure I'm getting the vitamins I need each day. I'm on a pretty heavy weightlifting program and I know I'd see results with or without supplementation - this is just to be on the safe side.

I've got a riding lesson soon, so check you guys later...

Amarantha2
08-04-2001, 03:47 PM
Thanks, Mrs. Jim! Just to mention that I take supplements, too. I do so with extreme caution, though. I take a flaxseed capsule daily, a multi-vitamin, two to three acidolphus (sp?) tablets, a fiber tab, one green tea capsule. From time to time, I've taken ginseng, St. John's Wort and glucosomine. I've also drunk Ensure, Slimfast and a host of other meal replacements and vitamin drinks. I take aspirin (which basically is willow bark many times removed).

So I'm not anti-supplement ... and all these things would not be here had they not been harvested and processed by humans. That's true of ephedra also ... it is NOT natural ... it is a substance derived from nature for human consumption ... in small amounts and under the right circumstances (such as under a doctor's supervision for the treatment of asthma or whatever), ephedra may or may not be useful and/or safe.

But until I can see inside my own body on a daily basis and KNOW there's no stroke waiting to happen that ephedra can trigger, I wouldn't touch it with a 10-foot pole. :)

aphil
08-06-2001, 12:21 AM
Hi everyone,
Crone, there is a difference between ginseng, like in products such as Ginsana, and Siberian Ginseng, which is commonly used as a name for ephedra.
Since it was originally developed as an asthma medication, why would anyone want to use something that affects your cardiovascular system unless they need to?
I have used a few herbal supplements, but the only things I have used is Papaya extract for my digestive system, and Fenugreek tea to help my milk supply when I was nursing my babies. Other than a multivitamin and calcium, the only other thing I use is the occasional Slim-Fast-which is only a skim chocolate milk with a liquid vitamin in it.
I try to excercise daily, and to the girl having trouble getting off the couch when not taking ephedra, I agree with Mrs. Jim-exercise in the morning will help with that-but you are going to have to suffer the withdrawal symptoms no matter when you stop taking it-so why not sooner rather than later?
Crone is right-you can't see inside your bodyand you do not know when your heart and lungs have had enough! Every time you take something that is not necessary for your body, it not only affects your heart, but every body part. This goes for food, alcahol, drugs, herbs, ect. I think the popularity of herbs has healthy people taking all kinds of supplements-even ones they don't need.
Now can we please stop this debate? Let those who take ephedra-DO SO AT THEIR OWN RISK!
Aphil

Amarantha2
08-06-2001, 05:36 AM
Hi, Aphil ... I didn't actually view this thread as a debate, merely a discussion I thought interesting and so see no reason why anyone should not post on the thread as much as they want. Obviously anyone who takes ephedra or any other substance does so at their own risk ... but whenever this topic comes up, whether in 3D or the internet, it does seem to cause the same line of conversation ... one of those topics, I guess. :)

About the ginseng, I realize there are differences between the types of ginseng ... I just never had heard anyone refer to Siberian ginseng as a form of ephedra ... and I can't find any reference in my reading that links the two substances ... that's why I was curious. No offense was meant.

Actually, I will be forced to let the topic rest now because I am going camping for three weeks at a remote location far, far away where there are no computer terminals and no ginseng of any variety.

Have a nice rest of summer, everyone!

aphil
08-06-2001, 03:13 PM
hi,
Crone-I didn't take anything you said offensively!;)
I don't see this conversation as a debate on the part of myself, you, or Mrs. Jim-I feel we are just trying to let people know that it is not a 100% safe product-and no matter what any doctor, warning label, or book says-someone who is taking it and not having any visible problem will want to defend it.
One of the main things that worries me the most about herbal supplements is that people think that because something is labeled all natural that they should take it and it will be good for them-tobacco and marijuana are also all natural!
The main problem I think is that there are not enough regulations on herbal medications, and not enough information on the bottles themselves about possible interactions with things they may already be taking. These are listed in herbal books you can find at any store, but how many people pour through the books before they take diet pills or energizing herbs?
People want a quick fix-if they didn't there wouldn't be a market for Metabolife, Cheat and Eat, Enforma System, Exercise in a Bottle,Carb Blocker, and the list goes on......
People would rather spend their hard earned money on a pill than change their diet and exercise habits.
I know a pill did not make me overweight, and a pill will not make me thin, but I do sympathize with the desperate feeling of those who have resorted to taking things. I know how it feels to be miserable and not want to look the way you do anymore.
Take care everyone-and Crone-hope you had fun on your trip!
Aphil

Jehari
08-06-2001, 04:40 PM
OK. Just had to jump in here!

First of all, I am really sick of certain people putting those of us down who use suppliments to help us lose weight. It is NOT "sad" and does not make us any less of a person!

Second, like all things, and this has been said before, just use your head. Just about anything can be dangerous if it's overdone.

I, for one, was in such a slump I felt the need to take the suppliments to get me going. They helped my control my hunger while I learned new eating habits. After learning how to eat properly and establishing an exercise routine, I no longer need them. I just needed the boost to get started. So don't anyone tell me I won't be able to keep the weight off!! Anyone can gain it back, no matter how they lost it, if they don't commit.

NCMOM and DANA: I don't think it's healthy to stay on them for long. But from experience, let me just say WEAN off them slowly. The first time I went off them, I just stopped taking them. I felt like I'd been hit by a truck, I was sooo tired. But by lowering the dose one pill at a time over a couple of weeks, I found I didn't miss them when they were gone.
Jen

lakelog
08-06-2001, 06:58 PM
:wave: Hi Jen. I have been off of AM-300 for 2 weeks now. It only took about a week to get over it all. I had been on Metabolife for 3 or 4 years on and off and could quit anytime without any withdrawals. On these, I was only taking 2 a day and I actually did start taking 1 a day for several days due to the fact that I was running out.

I do agree that this topic will never quit. It might with us and then some new people will sign up on this site and post a question "Any Ephedra users out there?" I think a lot of the opinions may vary according to geographical area also. My grandmothers doctor down in Emory in Atlanta Georgia put her on Ephedra supplements to speed up her system and to strengthen her heart to postpone a pace maker. He is pleased with her progress so far. As I said before, my own OB/GYN suggests it to help patients lose some weight. I have been going to see him every 3 months since then. We do make sure that it is stopped for a while in between so we can keep our bodies from becoming immune.

Dana
budsysmith@hotmail.com
256/204/156