Weight Loss Support - Body image & THIN MODELS!




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2frustrated
01-10-2006, 06:16 AM
:tantrum: If I had a penny for each time I've seen a model's ribs in a magazine advert, I'd be rich! However, try to find a woman with 20% body fat in any glossy magazine and you'd be looking for a long long time!

I used to feel that everything would be fine if only I looked like the girls in Shape. I too wanted to be able to jump around on the beach in the tiniest shorts with great hair! Now I've progressed along my journey a little further, I don't ever want to look like the girls in Shape! For me the look is "skinny fat" where they've dieted down so you can see their ribs, but they also have no muscle! Yes you may mistake their legs for cocktail sticks but how many roundhouse kicks can they do?

Does anyone else feel intimidated and or belittled by models in magazine adverts? Anyone get really REALLY annoyed that Sophie Dahl turned into a skeleton as soon as she got famous? ;)

I'm writing an essay on the female body image in advertising and any views on the subject would be greatly appreciated! Thank you very much!


jillybean720
01-10-2006, 09:56 AM
What an excellent topic for an essay! I think everyone will agree that magazine models are too skinny and therefore create an unrealistic image of what people expect all women to look like. Besides making the overweight feel like crap, it drives young girls to diet even if they haven't a pound to lose! It also creates higher expectations in many men's minds, and it portrays an incorrect image of health. You're absolutely right--SKINNY isn't healthy. Protruding bones and a hairline-thin profile do not automatically mean healthy muscle tone and strong organs. Sure, not all of the women are really so skinny (thanks to technology like airbrushing), but I'd take the Angelina Jolie from Tomb Raider (did you see the muscles in her arms and thighs?) over the skin-draped skeleton she often appears to be now.

Also, in advertisements, the stick-thin models are often shown with hot men, fancy jewelery, and other luxuries. Dove's campaign with "real women" for the cellulite cream (I think it's Dove, anyway) has heavier models who IMO look healthier than the skinny ones, but they are always alone. I know the purpose of the ad is to show them in their underwear, but why can't models like that be used in other ads? Would it be so horrible to see one of those "full-figured" models with diamond jewelery and a fur coat in a shoe ad?

About the muscle thing, too (hehe, "skinny fat"), why do models have to be either super-skinny or full-figured? Why can't they be NORMAL women who have a normal body fat percentage and some actual muscle definition (no, bone outlines seen through the skin do not count as muscle definition :p )? I know advertisers choose models with long, lean lines because it supposedly makes clothing look better, but I don't need a skinny fat chick in an ad for shoes or jewelery or hair products...

Unfortunately, I also understand that it's to late to change it. I think the models in magazines will be skinny fat for a long time to come. It's what consumers have come to expect and anticipate when they flip through a magazine, and change is difficult in such a huge industry. I'm just kind of babbling now, and I'm sure I'm not exactly on-topic with what you had in mind, but I think I've made my point (or points...) :dizzy:

LLV
01-10-2006, 10:22 AM
What kills me is even plus-sized models have great bodies.

I'm like, "THAT'S plus-sized??? Try weighing 220 pounds, then we'll talk plus-sized."


RobertW
01-10-2006, 10:48 AM
[COLOR=indigo] It also creates higher expectations in many men's minds, and it portrays an incorrect image of health. You're absolutely right--SKINNY isn't healthy.

You meant to say women's minds, or what women IMAGINE men prefer. Men generally find slightly overweight more attractive than underweight ones.

jillybean720
01-10-2006, 11:24 AM
You meant to say women's minds, or what women IMAGINE men prefer. Men generally find slightly overweight more attractive than underweight ones.
Heh, just forget I said it, then...I meant what I said, but I know if I explain it, it'll just start a debate :dizzy:

jillybean720
01-10-2006, 11:26 AM
umm, it posted twice, and I don't know how to delete this post!

charliekay
01-10-2006, 11:32 AM
not my hubby he likes bonier the better,don't know how i ever got out of control with his idealisms



You meant to say women's minds, or what women IMAGINE men prefer. Men generally find slightly overweight more attractive than underweight ones.

2frustrated
01-10-2006, 11:41 AM
In this culture, advertising images of females frequently contain an invisible yet implicit man who approves of and defines the feminine ideal. Thus the point of view in advertisments featuring the perfect female body is almost always that of an implied male spectator.

by Vickie Rutledge Sheilds in Measuring Up: How Advertising Affects Self-Image

So Jilly is wright.... and Robert is right too!

Personally I find myself swayed by the "male ideal" that is portrayed in the media - I like muscley men, but I also want to be muscley myself. Although saying that, I find Eddie Izzard in make-up quite sexy too, so maybe that's just me being wierd! And of course to prove a point, that even though I prefer my men muscley in my ideal world, my DF is a 140lb weakling! :lol:

I'd also like to throw in a quote I read somewhere, but I can't remember where. Some lady, on why she "starved herself", she said, "I don't starve myself for men... I starve myself for other women."

srmb60
01-10-2006, 11:51 AM
We must remember that models are 'clothes hangers'. You're not supposed to look at them, you're supposed to look at the clothes.

jillybean720
01-10-2006, 11:55 AM
I'd also like to throw in a quote I read somewhere, but I can't remember where. Some lady, on why she "starved herself", she said, "I don't starve myself for men... I starve myself for other women."
How true! Women can get quite catty and competitive with one another. However, I think the reason for this is still that women are always trying to be better than other women in order to be more attractive to men (whether they realize it or not)...i.e., if there were no men, then women wouldn't be as competitive since there would be no "prize" (I won't comment on how many guys I think could actually be considered a prize ;) ) for being the best (whether the "best" be the smartest, prettiest, thinnest...).

2frustrated
01-10-2006, 11:55 AM
Oh yeah! I forgot! Well I don't like my clothes hangers with ribs! ;)

jillybean720
01-10-2006, 11:57 AM
We must remember that models are 'clothes hangers'. You're not supposed to look at them, you're supposed to look at the clothes.
Ha, put a skinny chick in a skimpy outfit (no matter what designer it's by) and tell a typical guy to only look at the clothes...good luck :p

lucky
01-10-2006, 12:10 PM
I agree with Robert. I know plenty of men who do not find the people you see in magazines and on TV attractive. They may very well concede that they have beautiful faces, or that their persona makes them seem sexy but they almost ALWAYS end with the phrase, "but she is too skinny." They have enough life experience to know models and actresses are not the norm and appreciate "real" women. Younger guys who have not had the opportunity to be up close and personal with an ACTUAL ;) female form are proabably more inclined to set expectations based on what they have seen in print and film. Many of them have no idea that real breasts are not usually found in the shape and size of cantelopes. :o They are likely to adapt their standards once they hit the real world though.

In general, girls and women are a different story. Like Robert said, we tend to compare ourselves to one another and set unrealistic standards for ourselves. I don't know any men who thumb through a GQ and feel they must aspire to look like the men represented there. They may WISH they looked like that but once they put the magazine down they go back to being pretty content with themselves. If they were health conscious before they still are and if they weren't, well they probably still aren't (obviously there are exceptions).

In my opinion, young girls are the most at risk. Because once we form an image of our body it is very difficult to undo it. We tend to hold on to the idea we have of ourselves regardless of any physical changes. As a parent, I feel it is MY responsibilty to make sure my daughter's (and son's, for that matter) body image and self esteem remain in tact as she grows and develops. Magazines can put whatever they want on their covers - their job is to sell magazines and they've obviously found the magic formula. It would be great if they exhibited a certain amount of social responsibility by using models who represented "normal" but they don't - and they don't owe it to me to do so. Don't get me wrong, it annoys me. But I do believe the messages they send can be defused with responsible parenting.

I think it is important to recognize and accept that the media does not represent "real" life. Tabloid magazines wouldn't sell if they weren't reporting something outrageous. Theatre seats would be empty if they played movies about the day to day life of most people. It is all about extremes - and that is how it is inteded to be. Fantasy sells - we either want to imagine that someone else's life is so very awesome so that we can daydream what it is like to be them or we want to see someone fall flat on their faces so that we can feel better than them. We can't decide what we'd rather see - a celebrity get fat so that we can tsk, tsk them or one to become anorexic so that we can think, "at least that isn't me."

It is also critical that we recognize that Hollywood standards are NOT typical. Not long ago there was a benefit for Katrina victims here in Mississippi. I had the opportunity to meet with many of the celebrities who participated. I can assure you of one thing. The female celebrities who appear "real" on TV are gaunt and frail in real life. The ones who seem healthy except for being too thin would break if you hugged them too hard. The ones who are normal, healthy weights - are the ones the general public considers fat. It isn't that we truly believe they are overweight but they ARE chunky in comparison to their counterparts - and that is visibly noticable.

We can blame the media all we want. But, when it is all said and done, it up to us to evaluate what we see and draw logical conclusions about normalcy, health, and body image. Which is exactly why you will never find me in the check out aisle buying a Teen People for my daughter that oozes concern that Mary Kate Olsen is too thin (all the while reporting every juicy detail of how she became anorexic) right under the headline, "Read how Jessica Simpson got her Dukes of Hazzard Body!" It is insane and we do not HAVE to fall for it.

srmb60
01-10-2006, 12:28 PM
Lucky's quote ..... We can blame the media all we want. But, when it is all said and done, it up to us to evaluate what we see and draw logical conclusions about normalcy, health, and body image. Which is exactly why you will never find me in the check out aisle buying a Teen People for my daughter that oozes concern that Mary Kate Olsen is too thin (all the while reporting every juicy detail of how she became anorexic) right under the headline, "Read how Jessica Simpson got her Dukes of Hazzard Body!" It is insane and we do not HAVE to fall for it.
The media prints more of those magazines because someone buys them. Lots of someones buy lots of them. It is my right, duty and obligation to teach myself (and my own) discernment

We must also be careful who we assume is popular. The media prints stuff it can get. I don't know about any of you but I have never asked, wanted to know or cared about anything Kate Moss or Paris Hilton was doing.

Star
01-10-2006, 12:36 PM
Linda mentioned that some "Plus Size" models don't look to be PLUS. I have to agree with her, but every once in awhile I have see afew plus size models that are bigger girls,but I've seen more that appear to be a normal weight.
One thing for sure, If you see an outfit on a model in a magizine it's not gonna look like that on me....

LLV
01-10-2006, 01:06 PM
Linda mentioned that some "Plus Size" models don't look to be PLUS. I have to agree with her, but every once in awhile I have see afew plus size models that are bigger girls
I've seen a few, but not many. However, I saw a magazine not too long ago that had women posing in their bra and undies in all different shapes and sizes. And that was very refreshing. They called themselves REAL women. No boob jobs, no tummy tucks, no facelifts... and they were all beautiful in their own way. Some of them were overweight. But they weren't ashamed to pose half nude. They were proud of their bodies because they had learned to accept themselves for what they were. And that's the whole thing, acceptance. It's hard for some of us to accept ourselves when 90-pound women are on the cover of every magazine.

As for men, I don't know a one that likes rail-thin women. My husband AND his best friend, Sean, have said several times they like a woman with "meat on her bones."

As for the male body, I personally don't find overweight men attractive. Not even chunky, really. I don't like big muscles, but what I find attractive is TRIM (not thin) and smooth muscle definition. I've never been into the big muscular body-building types. I just don't think it's attractive.

Star
01-10-2006, 01:20 PM
Linda - I think the ads your talking about are Fruit of the Loom, I've seen them too....to me those women look very REAL. My hat is off to them.
As for men, I like my DH. He is about 30 pounds overweight and has a belly (not from beer). He's like a teddybear, but right now he is losing weight with me.......I don't like big body building type men (not that it matters)...lol

LLV
01-10-2006, 01:26 PM
Linda - I think the ads your talking about are Fruit of the Loom, I've seen them too....to me those women look very REAL. My hat is off to them.
As for men, I like my DH. He is about 30 pounds overweight and has a belly (not from beer). He's like a teddybear, but right now he is losing weight with me.......I don't like big body building type men (not that it matters)...lol
Yes, I've seen the Fruit of the Loom ads, those are great too :)

But this was a magazine over at my MIL's that had pages and pages of "real" models. It was very cool.

"Not that it matters", lol, that's a good one. Yeah, same here. But hey, I still like to look. Not too long ago I was shopping and this guy walked past me that was stunningly gorgeous, I almost tripped over myself looking at him. Boy that was fun, lol!

There aren't many men on the planet that can cause a woman's jaw to drop just looking at them.

Margarita
01-10-2006, 03:14 PM
The unrealistic images in magazines have been a pet peeve of mine for a long time. I once heard of a top model (sorry I can't remember which one) who went to bed crying every night because she was so hungry--and it wasn't because she couldn't afford the food!

Has anyone seen this link? From normal to glam (including several figure "enhancements") in a few clicks of the mouse. This is what we're up against:
http://www.i-am-bored.com/bored_link.cfm?link_id=14537 , click on "retouch site >>" to see how it's done.

srmb60
01-10-2006, 03:17 PM
Remember those interviews Jamie Lee Curtis did? She held up an enhanced mag cover of herself and said something like " .... you can't look like this. I don't look like this."

Star
01-10-2006, 04:00 PM
Linda - Was the magizine of the real models "More" I get that mag and they did that too, it was too cool......they took normal middle aged women and glamed em up.....awesome!
About Jamie Lee Curtis - ever since she did the Unenhanced" thing I have loved her.....lol

RobertW
01-10-2006, 04:26 PM
Remember those interviews Jamie Lee Curtis did? She held up an enhanced mag cover of herself and said something like " .... you can't look like this. I don't look like this."

That is pretty funny considering Jamie Lee was born a man (XY). "She" is used as an example in medical school classes of "testicular feminization", a condition where a man develops as a woman because of a mutation in his androgen receptors.

Star
01-10-2006, 04:43 PM
Oh my gosh, I never heard that before....Are you trying to fake us out?

TBJ333
01-10-2006, 04:48 PM
tiniest shorts with great hair

Heh heh, hairy shorts... :p

Well... one thing is true... cameras add ten pounds. A two-demensional image will make somebody who is at a 45-degree angle to the camera look fatter, because you don't see the curve of her waist, or arm, or neck. Instead, the body looks flat, and the curves just look like wide body parts. So I understand why models and actresses might have to be ten pounds thinner.

But ten pounds thinner doesn't have to mean a size 2. And ten pounds thinner doesn't have to be ten pounds thinner than a normal weight... we could still have big girls in the media. Why don't we?

Advertising is supposed to make us crave things. We are supposed to feel inferior to the person who has the product in the picture. If the person in the picture is impossibly thin and beautiful, we can never look as good. We will always feel inferior. And we will want some way of making ourselves look just as good... We can't be perfectly thin and beautiful, but we can go out and buy things... so we may as well buy the product advertised. Sneaky, eh? ;)

Oh, and media reports about anorexia really bug me! They're like an eating disorder training manual. On the other hand, it's good that the media is noting that even celebrities can be too thin.

You know, the era of the too-thin model just might pass. As Americans become fatter, they will want more media that represents them. Hm. Not that the growing obesity rate is a good thing, but it might lead to more fat acceptance.

*shrug* Complicated issue! Let us know what your conclusions are in your paper, 'k? :)

LLV
01-10-2006, 05:01 PM
Linda - Was the magizine of the real models "More" I get that mag and they did that too, it was too cool......
You know, I don't remember :?:

Star
01-10-2006, 05:23 PM
Linda - Again - Not that it really matters (about which magizine)...lol
Robert - Ok I checked your Blog and I know your not trying to misinform us.....sorry. Nice Blog!

luey
01-10-2006, 05:59 PM
ten pounds thinner doesn't have to mean a size 2

They're not size 2 women - they're size 0.

I found a website once that had figured out the BMIs of several celebrity women. All the same ultra-thin women were on there - Callista Flockhart, Paris Hilton, Nicole Kidman - but there were also "normal" women like Halle Berry and Jennifer Lopez. Even Jennifer Lopez is underweight for her height (although it was only by about 5 pounds), and she's considered curvy!

My boyfriend's jaw hit the ground when I told him that. He immediately began to tell me how he didn't want me to look like J. Lo! That's something every woman should hear.

honey-dipped
01-10-2006, 07:16 PM
You meant to say women's minds, or what women IMAGINE men prefer. Men generally find slightly overweight more attractive than underweight ones.

I have to say that I agree with this quote. I used to be very thin and even a little bony. When I gained weight, I got a lot more attention from men than when I was skinny.

blues4miles
01-10-2006, 07:27 PM
I just wanted to comment...I know my fiance has told me a lot that he doesn't want me to be like the models on tv, that they are indeed too skinny. He also has said that he doesn't like their faces, etc (possibly too thin of a faceline? too angular? semi-androgenous?). But I think the difference is with men and women appreciating models that men are visual creatures. I think in a long term relationship they can come to love and be attracted to just about any shape, but on strangers they will first notice what their eyes show them. Women may have physical preferences, but I think it's slightly less to us and we can ignore visual impulses if we choose to.

I'm a bit confused as to where everyone thinks these images keep continuing from then. I agree it's a bit of women competing with other women for men(in some kind of unconscious way). Men are competitive, but not in "looks". I also agree with whoever it was that said that men may get self conscious while staring at a magazine, but will tend to forget about it later. Not that they don't have their own problems with self confidence...but it's not based purely on a weight or muscle issue. I wonder though, if it isn't men that don't like all these thin models, why are they everywhere? I think men are better at separating tv-magazine fantasy from reality than women. Women see that and get self-conscious. A man can see it and be attracted to it, without wanting to actually be with a woman who in reality looks like that. Make any sense to anyone?

penpal
01-10-2006, 09:11 PM
Have you noticed that the very thin models and actresses never look very happy (in fact, they often look downright miserable - i.e. Kate Moss)? On the other hand, larger sized models and actresses are usually smiling in their photos.

kyethra
01-10-2006, 10:06 PM
when I see stick figures and I notice how thin their arms are or the ribs that stick out I just think that they look so hungry. I mean I really just want to sit them down and feed them a grilled cheese sandwhich with tomato soup. My fiance aggrees with me- he likes women that don't like they would break if you hugged them.

I also think there are some celelbrities that are healthy looking. Shakira, for one. She has muscles. I admire that. A lot of men past a certain age are looking for potential babymakers I think. To them a skinny model might not convey that. A slight belly might be far more attractive to them.

I love seeing pictures of models that look more normal. I think its thrilling. I would love to see a model with a wheelchair or a cane. I don't think that is going to happen any time soon either though.

suechef
01-11-2006, 12:40 AM
Just a quick note. To the best of my understanding, the thing about Jamie Lee Curtis' "medical condition" is a hoax.
cheerio,
Sue

stacylambert
01-11-2006, 01:36 AM
Also on the Jamie Lee Curtis thing, one of my professors noted it as being true. Who knows?

I've also noticed te Dove and Fruit of the Loom ads but something bothered me. I believe they are retouched big time! Going on memory, it seems that none of the plus sized women had a bit of cellulite or roll anywhere! haha. Just a thought.

I've been struggling with my gym plan because of this topic. I like lifting a lot of weights, especially lower body. However I'm afraid I'm going to end up very muscular looking which as we're discussing, isn't the "in" look. I've actually considered laying off the weights some (not completely), and just focus on losing weight. I think it's pretty safe to say we are all affected in one way or another by the media's image of women's bodies.

My husband and I have been talking about this topic lately. He also doesn't like the very skinny women. Some of his favorites he noted were Anna Kornakova (sp), Tyra Banks, Katherine Heigle, Trish Stratus (a wrestler), and Kelly Carlson (Kimber on Nip/Tuck). While they all have bodies most of us will probably never have... none of them fall under the super thin category.

As for my taste in men...hmm I could go on for awhile. I do like bodybuilders, but only to a certain extent. Not when you can see every vein moving over their muscles. Ew. Most of the celebrities I like tend to be skinny side. Chad Reed (supercross rider, worth looking up), Julian McMahon, Randy Orton (wrestler), James Marsters...all skinny. When my husband saw the list he decided to start cutting instead of bulking. I'm not sure why I like them, maybe because it's something different? Anybodies guess.

2frustrated
01-11-2006, 05:05 AM
Penpal - not only have I noticed skinny celebs are miserable, it's like that in real life too! I was out clubbing with loads of curvy girls, we were all beautiful and haveing a fab time, one supremely skinny girl was standing on the outside, never dancing and looked like someone stole her doughnut! :rofl:

Kyethra, there is a "model" over here in the UK who lost her leg in a Motorcycle accident. she modeled with a false leg and was in numerous sports adverts with a techi titanium bionic type leg for running. She's Heather McCartney :barf: I don't think much of her, since now all she does is simper at Paul's side and well I just don't like her OK? :lol:

just a quick note stacylamert, weights will NOT make you big and muscley. Steriods make you big and muscley and testosterone (which we just don't have enough of to get BIG!) so don't give up the weights!

jillybean720
01-11-2006, 08:08 AM
I've also noticed te Dove and Fruit of the Loom ads but something bothered me. I believe they are retouched big time! Going on memory, it seems that none of the plus sized women had a bit of cellulite or roll anywhere! haha. Just a thought.
Oh, I'm sure they are retouching. Even "perfect" models get retouched, whether it be just to remove wrinkles in clothes, make breasts look bigger/perkier, or remove blemishes or shadows from faces. Even those with seemingly perfect figures often have their waists make smaller or curvier. About the cellulite, though--it's actually a genetic thing. Some women really can weigh a LOT and just be fortunate enough to have smooth skin everywhere. This is also why some women can be super-skinny and even have good muscle tone and yet STILL have cellulite on certain parts of their body. Yay for genetics :dizzy:

Also, the Dove ads are for a cream that supposedly reduces/removes cellulite, so of course those models aren't going to have any skin imperfections in the ads or it would look like the product didn't work :p

RobertW
01-11-2006, 11:15 AM
just a quick note stacylamert, weights will NOT make you big and muscley. Steriods make you big and muscley and testosterone (which we just don't have enough of to get BIG!) so don't give up the weights!

Even Shannon Hartnett (http://www.purepowermag.com/live/photos/04stlff/sm/stuff09.jpg) looks very feminine to my eye, and she was just banned from the Olympics for steroid use. Don't worry about getting too muscular, unless you are like Jamie Lee :D (just kidding, testicular androgenization won't make you muscular).


Can anyone explain the enormous popularity of the food network's Rachel Ray (http://static.flickr.com/23/26163010_8e7c1c2c10.jpg), if men are supposed to favor thinness? She is short, chunky, and looks like she is drunk most of the time, but since that FHM layout guys have been going nuts over her. Loooking through Men's magazines will probably give a more accurate picture of what men prefer, than the mainstream media.

2frustrated
01-11-2006, 11:43 AM
she's CHUNKY? I can't see any rolls of belly flab on her.. maybe you linked the wrong picture! :dunno:

jillybean720
01-11-2006, 11:43 AM
Can anyone explain the enormous popularity of the food network's Rachel Ray (http://static.flickr.com/23/26163010_8e7c1c2c10.jpg), if men are supposed to favor thinness? She is short, chunky, and looks like she is drunk most of the time, but since that FHM layout guys have been going nuts over her. Loooking through Men's magazines will probably give a more accurate picture of what men prefer, than the mainstream media.
WOW, I would NEVER refer to her as "chunky"--she looks normally proportioned to me! She's not stick-thin, but she's still traipsing around in tiny little shirts and shorts without any of that dreaded "hangover" or pinched skin :p

Anyway, you do make one good point, and that is that most ads in mainstream magazines are geared toward women. Even in magazines like People, which are not specifically targeted only to women, are filled with ads meant to make WOMEN want to buy/use the products/services. As mentioned, women are competitive, and the super-skinny models make women want to BE super-skinny, and seeing super-skinny models in luxurious or fun or any sort of desirable situation makes women believe that whatever product or service is being advertised will make them as luxurious/fun as that super-skinny model. I think that makes sense :dizzy:

penpal
01-11-2006, 01:19 PM
I had to chuckle at how RobertW described Rachel Ray. I don't think she's drunk but she is a bit ditzy (at least according to my husband). She's not fat but doesn't have much of a waist, maybe that is what makes her appear a bit heavy (plus she wears tight tops). My dh thinks she's much more attractive than Giada De Laurentiis, another chef on FoodTV. Gaida is tiny and very pretty. I think a lot of men prefer down to earth "girl next door" types like Rachel who are maybe not perfect, but perhaps more attainable.

I noticed a lot of the female hosts are starting to wear low cut tops lately and my husband and I burst out laughing sometimes because it looks like everything is going to fall out when they are vigorously hacking up vegetables! :lol: It got downright erotic when Gaida squeezed the meat out of some giant italian sausages the other day (the camera lingered in close up for a long time). Oh yes, FoodTV is about more than just cooking!

On the subject of FoodTV peronalities, I think the chef most comfortable in her own skin is Paula Deen and that girl loves to eat - I don't think she's ever made anything without at least a half a pound of butter in it. Paula is what you might politely call "pleasantly plump" but seems to enjoy life to the fullest.

Star
01-11-2006, 01:22 PM
Robert - I think these two women are strong and beautiful. I can't explain why men wouldn't love them.

jillybean720
01-11-2006, 01:38 PM
I think a lot of men prefer down to earth "girl next door" types like Rachel who are maybe not perfect, but perhaps more attainable.

This is a whole additional difference--I think many guys look for girls who seem fun. If there was a hot normal-sized girl who looked depressed and a very skinny girl who looked like she was having the time of her life, I'm guessing more guys would pick the happy chick :p Rachel looks like she's ALWYAS having fun (whether she's drunk or sober, hehe), so I think that's part of her appeal (though I still wouldn't call her chunky ;) ). There's a lot more to attraction than body type.

penpal
01-11-2006, 01:58 PM
I just checked out hubby's opinion on this and he says that hot, thin, model types are "too high maintenance" (whatever that means). I guess that makes me very low maintentance indeed! :lol:

ledom
01-11-2006, 02:15 PM
More than once I have had female cashiers comment on the cover girls of "Oxygen" magazine when I check out. It is almost always an "ewwww" kind of comment. The last time the models 6 pack abs were what was mentioned, the woman said she thought a woman should have a little belly. Not sure what to make of it, but I think it is a commonly held belief. On a side note, one of my pet peeves are personal comments on the products I buy from people checking me out. I have had cashiers scold me for buying expensive cat food to commenting on how stinky feta cheese is.

RobertW
01-11-2006, 02:37 PM
This is a whole additional difference--I think many guys look for girls who seem fun. If there was a hot normal-sized girl who looked depressed and a very skinny girl who looked like she was having the time of her life, I'm guessing more guys would pick the happy chick :p Rachel looks like she's ALWYAS having fun (whether she's drunk or sober, hehe), so I think that's part of her appeal (though I still wouldn't call her chunky ;) ). There's a lot more to attraction than body type.

Definitely true.

LLV
01-11-2006, 02:45 PM
[COLOR=indigo]WOW, I would NEVER refer to her as "chunky"--she looks normally proportioned to me!
See, this is what we're talking about. And what a friend and I were talking about not too long ago... men see us differently than we see ourselves. To a lot of guys, Rachel would be considered fat. To us she looks great.

And men go around saying, "Well I don't want a stick-thin woman," yet the women that look "normal" to us are fat to them.

lol

Just like my husband and his friend saying they like women with meat on their bones. But when they look at porn, what do they go for? The women with the perfect bodies.

Men are just silly.

RobertW
01-11-2006, 02:49 PM
Just like my husband and his friend saying they like women with meat on their bones. But when they look at porn, what do they go for? The women with the perfect bodies.

Men are just silly.

Those women are surgically enhanced to give the "best of both worlds", thin and curvy. If you limit the discussion to natural women then curves trumps thinness.

stacylambert
01-11-2006, 03:21 PM
hmm, off topic but perhaps I should elaborate on what I said about weights. I never thought I was going to get huge like male bodybuilders. What I meant is a women's soccer player vs a women's swimsuit model. Two entirely different looks. Trust me I'm well educated in weight lifting and understand the difference between men and women.

LLV
01-11-2006, 03:22 PM
Those women are surgically enhanced to give the "best of both worlds", thin and curvy. If you limit the discussion to natural women then curves trumps thinness.
That's very good to hear :)

jules1216
01-11-2006, 03:54 PM
It's ironic to me that for example Lindsey Lohan was labeled "fat" and Nicole Ritchie was Paris's "fat" friend and then due the pressure of being labeled that way they lost the weight and now are labeled "too thin" by the very ones that called them fat before. It's a shame what the media does to a young girl's body image that carries through with them as they grow older.

blues4miles
01-11-2006, 04:52 PM
See, this is what we're talking about. And what a friend and I were talking about not too long ago... men see us differently than we see ourselves. To a lot of guys, Rachel would be considered fat. To us she looks great.

And men go around saying, "Well I don't want a stick-thin woman," yet the women that look "normal" to us are fat to them.

lol

Just like my husband and his friend saying they like women with meat on their bones. But when they look at porn, what do they go for? The women with the perfect bodies.

Men are just silly.

Agree entirely with the above. I think guys like girls who look happy (like Rachel) but their idea of who is thin and who is curvy is quite different from a woman's. And while yes, guys like curves, they usually like a few particular curves and don't so much like the others :D Porn stars shouldn't count either, they have scads of plastic surgery to get their curve+thin combos and I think in real life (wearing clothes) they'd look ridiculous. But while men may think of someone like Rachel as "chunky" that doesn't mean they won't be attracted to someone who is "fat". Maybe it's somewhat of a stereotype for guys to think on the thin-fat scale, but I also do think they are very flexible and while they may unconsciously see someone as a certain weight that won't affect their being attracted to a real woman.

2frustrated
01-12-2006, 05:46 AM
Oh don't get me started on Lindsay Lohan! I thought she was drop dead gorgeous in Mean Girls and the like, what a hottie! :D But now - urgh! Give the girl a Mars Bar! :lol:

angeleyezx
01-12-2006, 06:06 AM
Hi, I started the same subject on another forum in a form of a rant a while ago and someone made an excellent point when she said some thing like it didnt bother her seeing these skinny celebs, but magazine and poster airbrusing does as it doesnt even portray a true image, a complete non acheivable body.
I have a big problem with magazines(gossip ones) and newspapers, one week theyll complain that these 'skinny celebs' are to thin, are ill and teaching generations to become ana and then the next, or even in the same issue show more celebs withthe caption 'who ate all the pies'
geeze.
example apparently sugars most recent single 'ugly' came from a remark they recieved from a newpaper calling them 'sugar babes? more like sugar lumps'
I love sugar babes music, personally I think they look great and thin, but not ill and they are inspirational
opps[/rant]

jillybean720
01-12-2006, 08:25 AM
Hi, I started the same subject on another forum in a form of a rant a while ago and someone made an excellent point when she said some thing like it didnt bother her seeing these skinny celebs, but magazine and poster airbrusing does as it doesnt even portray a true image, a complete non acheivable body.
I think it's easy for us to roll our eyes and remember the airbrushing when we see these models, but the uninformed and the younger girls of today don't have that knowledge. Unfortunately, it's not always a topic discussed with young girls, which is why there are so many eating disorders. They strive for "perfection" (Lindsey Lohan, Nicole Richie, Mary-Kate Olsen, etc.), which from the media equates to thinness.

angeleyezx
01-13-2006, 07:45 AM
I agree, I remember when I was younger, I use to look in the mirror and think I look monster-ish, I had/have small eyes, nose and ear(which stick out) and my skin was noway perfect and all these girls I saw in my preteen mags looked perfect, I couldnt work out why I got the worst draw in life of that department.. Thank goodness that with age comes a little wisdom

GreatBigMonsterMomma
01-13-2006, 08:09 AM
We must remember that models are 'clothes hangers'. You're not supposed to look at them, you're supposed to look at the clothes.

Precisely. I have explained this before and will continue to do so til the day I die.

There is the "real figure" and then there is the "fashion figure." The fashion figure is unnaturally elongated. It does not look like the real figure, and it is not intended to. (Save for the ginormous boobs, Barbie is an excellent example of this.) It is an artistic conceit designed to better show off the clothes in the drawing. Somewhere along the line a designer decided it'd be great if models also had that fashion figure, with nothing annoying like breasts and hips that would get in the way of the drape of the fabric. Models are, therefore, chosen for their resemblance to coathangers. They do not look like "real" women, and they're not supposed to.

How they got to be held up as an ideal is beyond me, but I honestly suspect other women to be behind it. We tend to do most of this stuff to ourselves.

RobertW
01-13-2006, 10:58 AM
(Save for the ginormous boobs, Barbie is an excellent example of this.)

History: Barbie's Debut in 1959



In February of 1959, Barbie was first introduced at the American International Toy Fair in New York (Barbie Dolls). Her creators, Ruth and Elliot Handler (co-founders of Mattel) modeled Barbie after the German doll known as Lilli. Lilli began as a cartoon character in a daily newspaper called the Bild-Zeitung (BillyBoy 19). This character, known for her large breasts and sexy clothing, was created for adult entertainment "a symbol of sex and pornography for the men of Germany" (Johnson "History"). Handler discovered Lilli while shopping in Switzerland and brought the doll home for her daughter to play with.

Barbie was modelled after a german "sex doll", which explains the unnatural proportions.

Why are so many women feeling compelled to compete with fashion models amd moviestars? When I play softball I don't feel bad about myself because I can't hit and field like Alex Rodriguez.

2frustrated
01-13-2006, 11:07 AM
It's natural female competitiveness! ;)

I used to go to a girls school and we ALL wanted to be the best at EVERYTHING, not necessarily looks, thinness, but games, drama, maths, physics EVERYTHING!

Like I feel bad because I want my black belt before a girl who has been going to kickboxing for YEARS more than me. But I'm so het up about beating her (literally) that it's taking the focus off slightly. At least I'm aware of it, so sane frus can step in and say... "Hang on a minute... She's been here longer!" :rofl: