General Diet Plans and Questions - Body For Life #9

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06-28-2001, 04:33 PM
If you are wondering what the heck is body for life, read this post and get an idea. If you're thinking of starting or have questions, just ask away!!! We are more than happy to answer. Read Our Introductory Material for a feel for the program, look at our transformations (my link is in this note and MrsJim's in her sig at the end of her posts) and follow some of the links...but join our happy little family here on 3FC

Check this post for general information about :
1. Body for Life (what it is and how it works).
2. BFL links (Please let me know if you have more!) and
3. a short critique by Mrs. Jim at the end of week 3 (who is about to finish her first challenge and I'd like an update from her to put here...but week 3 is a critical time and her comments are important for newcomers to BFL)
General Body for Life Information
Must Have: Body for Life book by Bill Phillips

BFL eating program in a nutshell (see book for more details):
six meals a day 2-3 hours apart consisting of balanced (or close to balanced) protein/carb using fist/palm method of measurement.
Recommended grams per day: divide lean body weight by 6 and that is how much carbs/protein you should have at each meal but it tends to correspond to your palm (protein) and fist (carbs). Add green veggies to 2 meals per day. Drink 8-10 glasses of water per day.

Because of the six meal requirement, some people find it convenient to have Meal Replacement Drinks and/or Bars on hand. This is not a requirement but a convenience.

Meal Replacement Shakes and Bars (Shakes are better IMHO). Look for good ratios of protein to carb and low sugar (Myoplex by EAS and Met Rx not anything like Slimfast

Vitamins: suggest multivitamin

Supplements: l-glutamine for faster muscle recovery and immune system (this is not required but almost standard fare on BFL)

Supplements optional: many options but few (other than creatine) that is standard fare.

Workout schedule (see book for more details): 47-60 minutes intense (using supersetting and drop sets) weight trainining 3 times a week working lower and upper body on different days.

20 minutes intense interval cardio 3 x a week (see the BFL book)

Free Day: One day a week no workout and eat any thing you please, as much as you please.

Rest: 12 weeks of program with one day of rest each week and then one week of rest between each 12 weeks.

Mental requirements: commitment and dedication

Body for life Links

~~~My own page with Before and Afters from Challenge One!


'round the net bfl links:

(for plus women)
(for women)
(Thanks Christie!)

From BFL #3 Thread: Mrs. Jim's critique at the end of Week 3

Woo! Today's end of Week 3...
...I'm feeling great - my arms are sore (not unbearably so) from yesterday's UBWO...

For the remaining 9 weeks, I've downloaded and printed copies of the progress reports, then written down the strength training routines, with the dates on top (not the planned weight to lift though - I write that in the night before). Each week, I'll pull out the three strength training routines for that particular week and put them on my refrigerator to grab on my way to the gym each morning!

My opinion is, if you want to truly succeed at losing weight in any case - not just BFL - it requires some advance planning, reading/researching, etc. When you're considering a weight-loss/fitness plan, don't just go blindly into it. Do some reading and research. Talk to people (on line or in person) about how they've done on the plan - preferably those who have done the plan in the past, or for more than a few weeks. Ask yourself "Can I stay on this plan for X amount of weeks? Will I be able to KEEP the weight off? Can I afford to do this?"

Let's face it, BFL isn't for everyone (though I would strongly encourage all to give it a look!), just like WW or other plans don't work for everyone. It's important to find a plan you can live with for an extended period of time!

The things that appealed to me about BFL were:

*The structure of the plan - I've lifted weights in the past, but didn't have an actual routine to make them more effective. I like the way BFL's weight training is set up and timed - it's fast paced and actually enjoyable!

*Even though I'm doing less cardio than in the past (where I would typically spend 80 minutes on the EFX, followed by 5 minutes on the treadmill and 10-15 minutes lifting weights, six or seven days a week, in addition to long hilly bike rides on the weekends) I find I'm getting more out of it. My typical BFL cardio workout day consists of doing the 20 minute solution (using a HRM to monitor my intensity), THEN doing a 40-minute easy 'jog' keeping my HR low (120-140 HR) just because I enjoy it...I still do my Friday Spin class but only after my strength training and usually only stay for the first 35 minutes (primarily because of my work schedule).

*Another great thing is the FREE DAY...can't say enough about it. It's kind of exciting to plan what I'm going to be eating on Sunday! In addition, Jim and I usually go cycling or are out and about, so it's not like I'm hanging around the house pigging out...I still don't know what I want tomorrow...we did Mexican last week...maybe Italian??

Well, gotta go - my Myoplex is ready! Later...

Mrs. Jim

06-28-2001, 04:40 PM
Just hopped off the L&S board to find this thread.

I was going to say something about the wonderful post by Julie that is in today's message board, but they tend to slip by so quickly, I don't think she'd mind if I posted the text here.

First an explanation - in BFL #8 thread, there was some discussion regarding 'tweaking' the BFL program. I read this post and it really summed everything up to a T. Susanje, I know you saw this since you responded as well!

I'm on my platform but you may not like what I'm going to say.

First, to those who say this isn't a BFL board, let me say this. After one who has made a conscious decision to begin BFL has completed a challenge, they may then tweak and do anything their little hearts desire. But if you came on board to be supported in accomplishing the BFL principles and program, here's what I've got to say.

I've noticed of late many who've had some great successes on their first challenge, but have added cardio and made adjustments to the Nutrition-for-LIFE from the get-go. I don't know if this was on advice from a Personal Trainer, or perhaps seeing someone's results that had been through several challenges and eventually incorporated some tweaks. But I do want y'all to know that this is NOT a good idea during your first challenge. Yes, it may look good on the scale, but we know better, right? Tell your trainer it's your way or the highway. It's your body and your life.

It may take a little bit longer to achieve the results you want, but remember tons of research and experience went into the plan as is. EAS gives advice and now will tell you what you want to hear; they just want to keep you purchasing their products and will give you the answers that make it easier. But trust those who have been here and been through it. Between us, we've tried ALL the weight-loss and/or bodybuilding programs out there and they'll all tell you that BFL is the one they always go back to. As written by Bill Phillips, not modified by EAS or MM.

Yeah, you'll drop weight faster doing extra cardio or cutting carbs at night. But are you looking for the quick fix to make the damned scale happy? Or are you doing this to build a state-of-the-art fat-burning machine? We're here to become lean and strong, not skinny fat people, right? Don't sacrifice your lean body mass!

Now get out there, do your 20 minutes, no more and no less. Lift your weights to failure and push for those 10s. Eat clean and don't forget those quality carbs to transport that protein to your beautiful muscles. They will thank you for it.

Remember, you've taken the plunge for LIFE. Why did you choose to do BFL in the first place?

Hope that puts a spark in y'all!

Oh by the way, my home page sorely needs updating - plan to do it after completing my first Challenge on 12 July! Til then if you want to see my 8 week progress pix, just go to my profile at! Take care!

06-28-2001, 09:24 PM
I have a question. I have been researching glutamine and want to order some in powder form that I can add to my shakes. Awhile back you said that you were going to buy Labrada glutamine(1000 servings). The only labrada glutamine powder that I can find is 1000gm/bottle. But someone on L&S said thatb you need to take 10-15gms a day. Even at 100 servings for $47 it's a good deal. I located it on Netrition but can't seem to find it on vitaglo or saveonsupplements. Where are you getting your from. Thanks

Also, if anyone has a jar of Betagen around, could you please tell me how much glutamine per serving (and creatine too). Thanks

06-28-2001, 10:19 PM
Susan~ Could you please send me the periodization document if you still have it in your computer. I know that I'm not ready for it now but I would like to learn more about it for the future (C2 or 3).Thanks

06-29-2001, 09:33 AM
Did LBWO this morning. I think I need to add more weights to my squats already. I don't feel sore or shakey at all! However, my calves are burning!

I posted a question at L&S, but if you have any insight, it would be great. I have been doing deadlifts, and the only thing I feel is my lower back when doing them. I feel nothing in my hamstrings. Am I doing them wrong, or do I need to change to a different hamstring exercise??

Congratulate me!! I DID NOT weigh myself today!!! YES!!!!!

06-29-2001, 10:20 AM
...but right after work I had a busy busy afternoon/evening! Got my hair highlighted (now I'm almost a blonde!!) then of course I had to go to my sister's house to show off - since she's the one who kept nagging me to do it in the first place. I'm glad I did get it done - it'll look good in my 12-week photos. I'm still thinking about having them done professionally but it depends on the $$ situation at the time. I may wait until end of C2 to do that. I saw TallJen's pix on L&S and that's what got me started thinking about going the pro route.

Then after going to Jen's I had a riding lesson which went great - afterwards Jim, Rooster (the cowboy who runs the ranch) and I went to a little Mexican place down the road for dinner. I had garlic prawns sauteed with mushrooms and peppers, rice and black beans and a salad with salsa verde. Also a couple of corn tortillas. I asked how they were prepared and the owner said he sautees the shrimp and veggies in a garlic broth. They were delicious! I probably shouldn't have had the tortillas but I was hungry - missed Meal #4 - opened my desk drawer to find I'm totally out of bars!

2BFIT1 - I messed up on the servings. AACK! I think I'm getting too close to 40. There's 1000 GRAMS in Labrada Glutamine. I bought it from Netrition (click on the link at L&S and they get a commission on what you order). According to the label there's 200 servings, not 1000. I was taking 2 servings of CytoVol a day with 2.5 g of glutamine per serving. So a Labrada serving is 5 grams. Still at $48 for 200 servings it is a MUCH better deal that CytoVol at $45+ for 45 servings. I just hope it tastes as good as CytoVol does!!! I really liked that Kool-Aid flavor.

I bought two big jars of BetaGen early on and I'm still on the first one - I also have a container of generic creatine that I'm going to use after the Betagen is finally gone. Betagen has 2g of creatine, 1g of HMB, 400 mg of glutamine, and 200 mg of taurine.

Shelley - GOOD FOR YOU! ;) for not weighing yourself! I know how hard it is to stay off the darn scale after years of kowtowing to it...finally had to put mine in the closet!

I don't know about deadlifts - when I do them, I concentrate on contracting the hamstrings and I can REALLY feel it. Not doing deadlifts right now - my hamstring exercises are dumbbell lunges and standing leg curls (did them today in fact!).

Gotta hit the shower, gals!

06-29-2001, 10:58 AM


RE: Deadlifts

I have to stiffen my glutes and hams and lift a few times before I get it "right". For some reason I think it is hard to position yourself with deadlifts. I know I have to move around the first few reps and really get the place there it pulls on the hams. Is your form correct? Weight high enough? If so, just tighten up those hams and glutes as you lift up. I also think that you have to have them pulling away if that makes any sense. Like there is a small arc to your legs so that it's as if they're pulling back. It's hard to explain but if you get the right position, you'll know what i mean. With some exercises (deadlifts, lunges) you have to "practice" to make sure the form is correct.

Try it and let us know.


06-29-2001, 07:36 PM
Hi everybody!!!
I had a great UBWO today with NO extra cardio~~~I'm sticking to the plan for challenge1.
Placed an order today w/Netrition~Labrada glutamine,Myo locarb bars,LaTortillas and a free T-shirt.
I feel energized!!!

06-29-2001, 08:10 PM
Very cool Sil!!! I had a great cardio session with no extra LBWO. :lol:

Seriously, I completely hate cardio but I did another killer workout today...good warm up and cool down but I do feel kinda restless the rest of the day. I love weight training. Doing UBWO tomorrow will be tough so I think I might actually get up at 5 and go to the gym (yes, on Saturday!). A friend is picking me up for an all day event at 7:30 and I would like to get to the gym, get home, shower and dress and get a Myoplex in before taking off (I'm sure she'll stop for coffee and donuts...yeech)>

06-29-2001, 08:41 PM
Totally busy day today at work!!!

I had my LBWO this morning. I must admit here that I am not a great fan of either squats or lunges (though I'm sure I'll love the results...).

Since I'm in the last two weeks of C1, I'm trying to push it and hit those 10's!!!

I'm also feeling a bit giddy 'cos of that highlighting. Anyone ever see that movie "Earth Girls are Easy" with Jeff Goldblum and Geena Davis??? There's a scene where Julie Brown sings a song called "Cos I'm a Blonde, yeah, yeah yeah!!" For some reason that song has been going thru my head all day!!!

I'm getting myself prepared for my C1 12 week pix, highlighted yesterday...bikini wax on 9 July...and working on the (self) tan (no prob - even though I've been slathering on the SPF 30, I'm still getting a tan from working at the ranch all weekend!)

Later dudettes!!

06-30-2001, 10:02 AM
Mrs. Jim-Blonde, buff, and tan. What more can you ask for???

Did my HIIT this morning. I jogged. Could not go more than 15 minute on intervals, then had to slow jog, and walk the rest of the way. I'm thinking maybe it is because I used to have a cup of coffee and 4 egg whites before going for my 3-4 mile jog at a steady pace. Now that I'm on BFL, I don't have anything but water beforehand, like Bill says to do.

Tomorrow is my FREE day! I can have some cereal and matzo (I won't overdo it though.) Can't wait.

I did weigh today. I am down a little bit (maybe a lb.)

Talk to you later!

06-30-2001, 11:11 AM

I just gotta ask: is the bikini wax painful? I have very sensitive skin and can break out in bumps and little pimples whenever I shave or wax......I've considered the bikini wax but am afraid I'd be just one big splotch.....

Shelley: STAY OFF THE SCALE!!!!!!!! :)
But you are doing marvelously!!! Keep up the good work!!!!!

As for me, I was up bright and early (4 am) and to the gym for UBWO and now am off to a seminar in SF for the day. I hope my food doesn't go loopy (lunch is provided). I also feel TOM coming on....ick....

see you ladies later!!!!!!!!
Have a good day,

06-30-2001, 07:02 PM
I hate to say this, Susanje, but YES it is...if you go to someone who knows what she's doing, however, the pain will not last long and she'll know how to minimize it. I would NOT suggest doing it far as breakouts, well, that may happen but it's a lot less likely than with shaving. Make sure you don't go to one of those cheap places - ask friends where they go. Some places re-use wax which is not REAL sanitary if you know what I mean!

I do shave there once in awhile but end up with lots of stubble. Waxing means you have WEEKS of stubble free skin. I have my brows waxed every three weeks and it doesn't bother me - just a slight sting when the wax is ripped off. Better than plucking!

It's about 3 p.m. and I've been working at the ranch since 7:00 this morning. I am WIPED OUT. Of course I did my 20 minute cardio before going so I think I've gotten enough exercise for the day! Tomorrow is wonderful FREE DAY. Can't wait! I am so ready for Mexican food!!

07-01-2001, 08:36 AM
FREE DAY!! As I sit here eating my 5 egg whites and cup of oatmeal, then going out for a long bike ride! Actually, it will feel great biking after eating and having 2 cups of coffee, it will be what I used to do!! We are having lasagne for dinner (fat and salt!) I will not have very much at all!!

I have decided to make Sundays my weigh and measure day--that way maybe I will stay off the scale during the week, and it will be before my free day. Here are today's stats:

Bust-37 (and I'm lopsided at that!)
Waist-28 ( I remember when it was 22 inches--before kids! )
Hips(biggest part)-40
Thigh-24 (obviously a BIG problem for me!)
Calf-13 1/4

I don't know how to measure my body fat. I have the calipers, but when I try to do it, I either don't pinch enough, or I pinch too much! I just can't get the hang of it, even though I have read how--I'm just stupid, I guess!

Susanje-My daughter bought some NAD's. I used it on my eyebrows. I think I'll try the bikini area and see how it does (not that I'll be wearing one soon.) Believe me the NAD's hurts just as much as wax!

Got to check out L&S now! Talk to you later!

07-01-2001, 10:03 AM
Shelley - do you have the Accu-Measure calipers? If so, there are instructions posted in the "Utilities Library" at L&S, also has the instructions there as well. It does take a bit of practice to pinch the right way - you just use thumb and forefinger and kind of pull the skin/fat layer out a bit, then put the caliper ends on the pinch and squeeze GENTLY until you hear that click. I usually do it three times and average it out (even though it usually comes out the same all three times).

I'm really excited because I didn't WEIGH myself today but I did measure myself. I could really kick myself for not taking my measurements before starting - but I've already said that!

Today my waist is down to 27 inches (from 28 1/2" on May 13) and my hips are 37" (from 39" 5/13/2001). I also redid my caliper readings - and I'm below 22% which is OUTSTANDING!

Week 10 ended yesterday. Hard to believe I'll be done with my first Challenge in two weeks (actually less - I'll have my last C1 workout on the morning of 12 July, then we leave for Yosemite). As stated previously, I'm going to follow BFL to the letter (with the exception of Ab Boot Camp!) until the end of C1. So that means no cardio workout today - even though I will be working at the ranch this morning/afternoon while Jim goes to practice. Yesterday Jim and I (and the other gals) worked really hard - Jim was hoeing weeds while I filled water tanks, cleaned stalls, cared for the horses - then we tackled a HUGE job - cleaning out a paddock that has all gone to weeds and has about two feet of matted hay that we have to remove for a new boarder. WHEW!

Waxing - I could never do it myself - way too painful! I'll just pay the extra $$ and have my person do it. I've been going to Sky for years - she REALLY knows her stuff. After having my brows waxed for eons, I've NEVER had a breakout.

07-01-2001, 11:26 AM
Mrs. Jim-WOW!! Great loss!

My goal is to get my hips to 37 this 12 weeks! :lol:

Just got back from a leisurely 10 mile bike ride. It was so nice to just enjoy the outdoors without working hard! :cool:

07-01-2001, 02:18 PM
Hi, there BFL team!

Drat I just hit some weird key and lost my post! Had posted a long message last week and lost it too - at least I didn't see it show up. Now I hit something else and lost this...maybe I'm not supposed to talk to you!:dizzy:

Last week on the bike at work I realized I wasn't hitting my 10's - definitely was time to up the resistance...which is a good sign. But instead, I used the treadmill for the next cardio workout. Boy, did it feel good! It was the first time I'd used the treadmill in about a year. When my labmonsters hit a year old and their hips were strong enough, I started walking/running with them outside and tho I worked up a good sweat, it's definitely not the same as having a machine that forces you to keep your speed up! I had surgery on my foot in March and tho it was supposed to be healed by now, it still gives me problems. But I was sick of not being able to run, so I said to heck with it (I did make an appointment to see my new primary care doc so she could refer me back to the foot doctor - what a pain!) My foot actually didn't bother me when I was running (it never did before the surgery either) and it only whimpered a bit later, so I figured I can keep up the running.

I'm an asthmatic, so I never thought I "could" run, so one of my many goals is to be able to run a mile. I know it's just a small distance - I'm not up for trying for any marathons, but it is a milestone I'm working towards.

Enjoying my free Sunday. Last week I made chocolate chip cookies - ate probably 8 of them between eating batter and then finished cookies :D but sent the rest with my DH to the office so they weren't around to tempt me. Today it's this free day!!

07-01-2001, 10:39 PM
Hey everyone....I've been reading all your posts for a few weeks and I am getting ready to start my first BFL challenge tomorrow (Monday 7/2). I hope no one minds a 23 yr old guy posting in your msg board. I just don't really have any local friends that want to do this with me, and ya'll seem pretty cool. Just so you know....I'm not some skinny guy tryin to get ripped. I'm doing this to lose weight...hmm....on that note maybe I should tell you a little about myself.

My name is Sean...and I live in Maryland at the moment even though I am from Wyoming originally. I grew up in a very small town, but I have traveled extensively....even spending a year in San Francisco. (I noticed a couple of you are from the bay area). I was in pretty great shape throughout high school....played football...etc...but when I went to college everything seemed to go wrong and I ballooned up to 342 lbs as of last December. Since then I have dropped to 303 but I seem to have hit a plateau.

I think that I am eating too many carbs and I don't think my weight and cardio workouts are hitting "10's" as Bill Phillips would say. They are more like 6's and 7's and I need something to help me kick it up a notch (I love Emeril. :) ) BFL definitely makes sense to me and I know I will be commited. I went out today and got some Myoplex Lite Bars....about 8 of em...but...I still have to get some of the shakes. I have egg whites and some other clean proteins I can use to make up meals until I get them. Anyone got any meal tips when they run out of shakes?

I have access to the gym at my school which will help a lot. They just invested 200,000 dollars into it and put all new Nautilus equipment in it. Can you use machines and still get the same results in BFL? I have been using a stationary bike and stair stepper for my cardio so far. Once I lose a little more weight I am going to start up some jogging and maybe look into getting a mountain bike. I used to bike extensively right after high school until a freak accident involving my face and a Ford F-250 pulling out in front of me. :) It's ok now tho...but I haven't ridden a bike since..but I am ready to go again.

Ok now that I have rambled enough....I look forward to learning a lot from ya'll and improving myself in the process!!! Have a great 4th everyone!!


07-01-2001, 10:41 PM
Hmmm.......I think that clock is off. It says I posted at 2:39 am.....yet its only 9:37 EST. Weird. :)

07-01-2001, 11:30 PM
Well, first off, about that time thingy....

Click on the "Profile" link at the top of this page, then click on "Edit Options" and scroll alllll the way down to the bottom. You can change the time zone there!

Enough of that techie stuff. WELCOME! And congrats for starting your first challenge!

I use an average of 2 Myo Lite shakes a day and 1 MRB (Meal Replacement Bar). You can do BFL without the shakes and bars - they are merely a convenience. With my busy schedule (work/horses/babysitting/etc) I very rarely have time to cook. Besides I really love Myoplex Lite shakes (the bars are tolerable)! Many of us here on this thread also visit regularly. That is a great place to go for the more technical questions, and a terrific resource! Especially if you're looking for new recipes - can't live on egg whites everyday (BTW, I prefer Egg Beaters myself).

Of course you can use machines at the gym - I do most of my 20 minute HIIT sessions on the Precor Elliptical. Just as long as you can hit those 10's, that's what matters! But for the weights, I'd stick to dumbbells/barbells for most of them (excepting leg press and the like of course!). I'm convinced that Bill Phillips is absolutely correct when he says that you get better results with free weights than with weight machines.

YAAWNN...sorry...had a busy busy day today at the ranch! It was really warm and I just wore shorts and a sport bra. The gals and guys at the ranch are SO great...I was afraid to have my tummy hanging out and they all said 'lookin' good'! Of course they think most of it's from lugging that ol' wheelbarrow full of horse poo up and down the hill every weekend!! later...

07-02-2001, 09:54 AM
Welcome Sean!! We could use a little male input here--right girls???

Had my free day yesterday, and boy-was it free!! 2 pieces of lasagne last night--I even woke up at 11:30 to have some cereal before midnight!! Am I sick or what??? :devil:

Cris- I have a hard time reaching my 10's on my bike, too. My bike only has 6 speeds (it's an old Schwinn Beach Cruiser), and my recumbent bike has only 3 speeds (it's a PTS-about 10 years old, but it was very expensive in it's time!!) Now I'm wishing I could afford an elliptical. It looks like alot of people are using that for cardio. I am going to do the recumbent tomorrow for cardio, and will try to tweak it up to a 10 somehow!!


07-02-2001, 02:20 PM
welcome Sean!!!

I, too, had a bike accident once upon a time (a 10 speed accident, I also ride a motorcycle but no accidents on that!). I purchased a new 12 speed about 2 years ago and I just can't get on the damn thing. It was really expensive too!!! I must get it out one of these days but I suffered extensive nerve damage from the accident...(was flying down a hill and hit one of those vertical grates [I never saw it] and stopped immediately...well the bike stopped and I kept going...tried to brace my fall and put out my arm and hit elbow first....lots of nerve damage throughout my arm/shoulder/neck...muscle and tendon damage etc...was out of the gym for over a year and packed on the poundage). I'd love to ride again...but something in me just quivers when I take it out.

I use an elliptical, a recumbent bike and Tae Bo for a break. I saw a segment on the early show this morning about something called Power Kick or something like that. Very tae bo like but she has been running it for six years. She has a black belt in karate and this is a revved up version of kick boxing. It looked very cool and employs a lot of Tae Bo stuff but unlike a lot of Tae Bo imitators, she was doing this before Billy Blanks became famous with Tae Bo. So she is not just a Tae Bo imitator, it definitely has her own can tell she was developing it independently. Martial arts are on my "to do" list so I always get interested in these things. I'm sure that if it is in NYC (where she is from) it will be in the SF bay area shortly. So I'm going to look for that.

Other than that I'm feeling frumpy. I am very demotivated today because I didn't get into the clothes I envisioned myself in last night and some fat pants still fit. Whaaaaaaaaaaaaaa.

Just thought I'd share that.

WELCOME SEAN to our happy little BFL family!!!!!!!!!!

07-02-2001, 02:40 PM
Hi Everyone,

I put the links and BFL info on my web page and was thinking of just putting the link in there when I start a new thread.

We could do an intro page with links to everyone's page and the BFL information there instead of the long one.

MrsJim: would you like to do a write up for body to life especially the difference in your workout plan? You were working hard and going great guns BEFORE BFL and so I think it is very good to have input from someone who was already committed to eating right and working out and has done all these things to get in shape and how BFL is different. Maybe put it on your page and I could put a link to it? I think that would be a great perspective.

Anyone else? Interested in donating links/thoughts/opinions? Thanks.


07-02-2001, 04:51 PM
I'm planning on updating my website anyway. (Just got to find the TIME!!! BFL, the horses and WORK are taking priority right now...) Maybe in the days after we get back from Yosemite - when I'm not at the ranch of course!

I can point out some differences right now - before BFL I was doing very long cardio sessions with my heart rate averaging between 65 - 80% of max six mornings a week. I'd spend a minimum of one hour on the machine - sometimes (if no one was waiting) I'd be on that machine for 90 minutes!!

As far as weight training, I just didn't think it was that important since it didn't 'burn fat' like cardio does. One of the recommended books on my website is "Make The Connection" by Oprah Winfrey and Bob Greene. I still think it's a very good book but in retrospect, I think that Bob Greene gives weight training VERY short shrift - he pretty much discounts it in favor of just doing cardio. "You can add weight training later" in his words. Of course, he did come out with "Keep The Connection" which offers a basic weight-training routine (all on machines rather than free weights). Perhaps not being really serious about strength training is why Oprah was not able to maintain her weight loss in 1994-1996?? Hmm.

So, once in awhile, I'd do maybe five or ten minutes of half-hearted weight lifting. Nothing serious and absolutely no focus.

Eating - well, from 1992 until this year, I was a vegetarian. Sometimes vegan, sometimes lacto. Not for environmental reasons but primarily to maintain my losses on Optifast. Except for times when I was McDougalling (a VERY strict vegan plan that makes BFL's eating plan look like Disneyland!) I was eating way too many simple carbs - sourdough bread, cereal, frozen yogurt, etc. My theory was that if I cut out animal products, I would naturally take in fewer calories and thus, lose weight! Sometimes it worked, sometimes not. I gotta admit, since I started eating chicken and fish again (I do have very lean meat but not often) I feel a lot stronger physically.

One more thing - there was a question on the BFL #7 thread about my thoughts on Covert Bailey and that his "Fit or Fat" plan is not 'very different from BFL'. My opinion is that there are MAJOR differences between Bailey's program and BFL - why so many people who have tried 'Fit or Fat' have not been able to meet their fitness goals. The main difference is simple - Bill Phillips says to hit '10's in your workouts, while Covert Bailey advocates 'gentle' workouts with an occasional wind sprint. My opinion - and I'm living proof that this is true - is that if you want to make improvements, you have to 'Take It to the Limit' (as the Eagles sang!) - otherwise you won't get anywhere. Granted, casual walking is better than just sitting on the couch with a remote control, but you aren't going to be making any major changes. And I DO think that the HealthRider was a total ripoff - when he started doing those infomercials, that is when I started losing all respect for the man. Not only were there identical machines out there for less than 1/2 the price of Bailey's machine, but Consumer Reports tested it and said that none of their testers were able to get even a moderately aerobic workout from it. I like what Michael Fumento wrote about the HealthRider: "Still, I understand they're great for throwing your clothes onto at the end of a long day!"

That's my two cents on Covert Bailey. Don't want to start a debate - we are here to discuss BFL and I will not be bringing up the subject again. Whew! Back to work!

07-02-2001, 05:38 PM
Hi, Shelley. I read your post where you said you were having trouble measuring your body fat percentage. The calipers can be tricky at first, so you might find this link helpful (you simply use a tape measure):

Hope this helps!

Hello again, Mrs. Jim. :) Didn't mean to start a debate in the other thread about BFL v. Covert Bailey, especially since I realize that it was a BFL thread. I have the utmost respect for the BFL program after seeing the success my friend has had with it. In fact, the BFL threads caught my eye because my friend has been talking so enthusiastically about the program. However, I've had the same success following Covert Bailey's philosophy and just had to speak up. I'm feeling healthy, happy, and fit...that's the main thing, right? Just wanted to clarify one thing: Covert advocates "gentle exercise" for the beginner exerciser and the unfit. If you read any of his "Fit or Fat" books you will find that he firmly believes in regular weight training and vigorous cardio as your fitness level progresses. My personal trainer was thrilled with the progress I made on my Health Rider. It isn't the only cardio I do, but I still do it regularly. Gets me to my target heart rate and I feel so good afterwards!

Once again, I know this is a BFL thread, so I will sign off now and just lurk occasionally. ;) Once again, congrats to everyone on their fitness victories.

07-02-2001, 05:38 PM
Well.....I decided to wait a week to begin my BFL challenge. I have too much goin on this week and I want the first week to go really well. This isn't an excuse honest!!! The main problem is that Wednesday (July 4th) my gym is closed and that would be the day I had my first LBW and I dont want to miss that...and then Friday, Saturday, and Sunday I am going to visit my parents and help them move from Maryland to Virginia. So all three days I would be away from my gym and because we would be in an almost empty house and eating out for a day or would be very very hard to maintain the eating program. So I am going to delay starting the challenge till next week. That will give me time to go buy some Myoplex and do a little training and meal planning. This week I'm just going to stick to my old plan which has worked well (dropped 39 lbs in 5 months). I figure its better to get off to a good start with it, and its not like I'm pigging out this week or something. What do ya'll think? Oh...and thanks for the warm welcome to the board. :)

What do you ladies usually use to mix your shakes with? Water? Skim Milk? etc?

I'm in the process of putting together a web page right now. It's actually part of my job...I need to learn some web design this summer so that I can update the school's web pages this fall for an internship. So basically I'm going to make a weight loss page to practice. Got any ideas of what I can put up there besides like before/after photos, tips, good health links, etc?

Talk to ya'll later-


07-02-2001, 06:12 PM

I practiced a few weeks with BFL before starting my Challenge so you might want to "practice" the nutrition part and get food ideas etc before beginning next week (you can be in prep mode).

Water for Myoplex. If you want to thicken it use a teaspoon or so of FF/SF pudding.

Re: Covert Bailey

I have all the CB books and he has a sound program. I think the thing is that he didn't inspire me as did Bill Phillips and I was prepared to hate BP when I first heard of BFL. I just found so much inspiration from Bill in spite of my plan to hate him. I think he speaks to the mental, emotional and physical...the free day, talking about crossing the abyss, setting goals, honoring self-promises, fail fast and move on if you're not perfect...and the food and weight training and all just fits together so just sings as far as I'm concerned...and it speaks to me on many different levels...just love the BFL plan.

Although there are a lot of plans I could knock for sheer nuttiness, CB's is not one of just doesn't speak to my soul like BFL does and I believe the intensity is what gives way to fabulous results.


07-02-2001, 06:31 PM
Like susanje, I too use water (and ice) for Myoplex. Once I used FF/SF pudding mix and it was really good...but my problem is remembering to pick up the darn stuff at the store!! :dizzy:

And I've said this before - about Diet Root Beer, Vanilla Myo Lite and ice. Really yummy! I don't think there's much of a diff using milk or water (except in calories). The milk may make it a bit thicker though - but if you reduce the amount of water and use more ice, you will get a nice rich consistency.

I've also considered getting some of those flavor extracts such as banana to add (I used to do that when I was using Optifast back in 1990). Adds flavor but no calories!!

Okay, I didn't mean to start a big Covert Bailey debate. My opinion is that even if you are just an exercise beginner, you have to hit 10's consistently to see results. I was really into Jazzercise (and still think it's a terrific program) in the early 90's and at the time they quoted Covert B constantly, so I bought the books, videos, etc. and followed his program for awhile (including the "target diet") with no real results (but at least I didn't GAIN weight). Like Susanje said, in the end I just found Bill Phillips to be so inspiring - even more so when I watched "Body of Work" during my Week 6 (I'm on Week 11 now). Initially I thought he was just some musclehead but...he has a way of structuring his thoughts where he can communicate to just about anyone, at any level. For proof of that, you need only look at the number of transformations (on L&S and other sites) as a result of his BFL brainstorm!

I had posted on L&S earlier asking for opinions on Covert Bailey and just had to copy Steve L's response (He's one of the main authorities on L&S message board - besides he said I could!):

I think his menu advice is largely sound, but I found the goals he sets for clients too modest.
He's on record as saying a 34-35" waist and 15% bodyfat is an excellent target for a man over age 30.
And while certainly that is a level of bodyfat lower, and healthier, than the general's not a very ambitious ultimate goal--at least not for someone schooled in BFL.
Also--he vastly underestimates the importance of lifting weights, as opposed to other exercise.
Still--he's better than a poke in the stomach with a sharp stick!
And you can quote me on that, Mrs. Jim.

07-02-2001, 07:09 PM
Check out Pam B's new pix in the Playspace!!!

WHOA! Outstanding...especially since it wasn't that long ago that she weighed well over 200 pounds!

Check 'em out (along with her L&S Before and After profile pix) - if any of you 'lurkers' out there are on the fence about doing BFL (and we know you're out there) - this is proof that BFL WORKS!

I'm printing them out on my color printer to post at home!!!

07-02-2001, 07:30 PM
Okay, coming out of "lurkdom" for just a few minutes. :dizzy: Susan: Thanks for your post. You put things more eloquently than I did, I think. You're absolutely right, you have to be inspired before you can stick to any program. It sounds as if that is what Bill Phillips has done for you, and that's great. That's what Covert has done for me. I love his sense of humor (I always laugh when reading his books or listening to his lectures) and the way he takes complex physiology and puts it into layman terms so that even an addle brain like me can understand. I always thought what he said made a lot of sense, but I was really hooked after reading "The Ultimate Fit or Fat" where he defines "The 4 Food Groups of Good Exercise": 1) Aerobics 2)Cross-Training 3) Wind Springs and 4) Weight Lifting. By the way, I enjoyed your webpage. Very dramatic results! Good for you!

Mrs. Jim: What the heck, a good debate is good for the soul! ;) I also enjoyed your webpage. Impressive! I see you're a cyclist. I don't cycle a lot, but always enjoy it when I do. Several years ago a friend asked me to go with her on a cycling tour of New Hampshire and Vermont. We signed up for the beginner/intermediate tour, but our guides mistakenly thought it was an intermediate/advanced tour. On the first day as I was reading my map (we didn't have to stick together as the guides continuously circled the route in a van to make sure everyone was okay) I thought I was reading it incorrectly when it read "35 miles up (I've forgotten the name of the mountain) Mountain to the lodge where we'll be staying." I was certain it had to mean 3.5 miles. But oh no, it was correct as written and we really were expected to ride 35 miles UP that darn mountain! On the first day! Well, I was determined to make it up that mountain without any assistance and I finally did, right before nightfall. I was the last one in but by golly, I did it under my own power! By the end of the week the guides had dubbed me "Slow and Steady Betty." :^:

07-03-2001, 08:55 AM

I'm sure that you will find lots of info and support here. Susan is right, use this week to get the feel of the program, check out the different links such as hussman, and start a wonderful way of life the next week. Good luck!

I was doing good with Weight Watchers at home but I just wasn't getting the exercise (no discipline). When I finally made up my mind that something had to be done, BFL and I just clicked! I have been on it for almost 7 weeks and I LOVE it. It has given me so much energy and enthusiasm, that now I can't wait to get to the gym. In fact, I had to stop doing extra stuff and just stick to the original program for this first challenge.

I have been doing great with the food also, except for the past 2 days where I had some Chex Mix that my husband brought into the house (i couldn't resist for very long). I did try to make up for it by mowing both mine and my neighbors lawns.You can check out my food selections at as it might give you some suggestions. If you review my account, go back several weeks because I lost 1 week while my computer was in the shop (you will notice the gap).

Susan~~~Did you read my reply to you on L&S? I mean it!!!!! You need to put your glasses on because you obviously can't see the wonderful difference in your before and after pics that we can see. Thanks for the periodization info you sent me. Looks very interesting. How long did it take for you to play around with the weights to find out what your 1MR is for each exercise? I don't know that I will have anything to contribute, but the idea of an info page sounds great!

MrsJim~~~I had a GREAT cardio wo yesterday. I kept the incline at 11 but increased the resistance. I plan to crank it up each week.

Cris & Shelly~~~Sounds like you gals are doing great:) . I have the same recumbant exercise bike as you do (have had it for about 12 years) and I use that on Saturday mornings before work~3:30am:eek:

Well,need to get to the gym~have a great day!

07-03-2001, 09:29 AM
Sil-Are you able to hit your 10 on the PTS? If so, can you give me some pointers on what you do? I did mine this morning, and my heart rate still doesn't go up as much as jogging. I am probably going to have to use it for my HIIT when I get back to work, though, so I really need to tweak it up somehow.

Sean- I use water and ice in my Myoplex, too. I am lactose intolerant, so I can't use milk. I do the root beer thing, too.

Aunt Betty-Thanks for the link. I'll try it out. I still have been trying the calipers, and they say I'm about 22%, which I think is way too low.

Took some pictures yesterday so that I'll be able to compare. I can't believe how bad my side picture is (stomach sticking way out!) I won't take them again until at least the 8th week.

Talk to you later!

07-03-2001, 09:38 AM
Since you gals were brave enough to post your measurements, here are mine. As you can see, my problem areas are my hips and thighs.
Waist~~~27 1/2
Hips~~~36 1/2
Thigh~~~22 3/8 :eek:
Calf~~~13 1/4
Body fat percent~~17.7% (was 19.8 at week 2 of BFL)

I hope to put more distance between my waist and thigh measurements, as they are only 5" different:eek:

07-03-2001, 09:46 AM
According to the link that Betty sent, I am 31% bodyfat!! :(

Sil- Your hips, thighs and weight are where I'd love to be!!;) I am your same height (I know I shouldn't be comparing!)

07-03-2001, 09:48 AM
Shelly~~~ I think in the begining I was hitting 10 on the PTS because I was so out of shape. But after using the elliptical, I can see that I wasn't even close. Although I would work up a good sweat in only 20 min. What I do (when I have to use the PTS) is:
warm up=2nd gear at moderate rate
6=2nd gear at fast rate
7=3rd gear at slow rate
8=3rd gear at moderate rate
9=3rd gear at fast rate
10=3rd gear at "as fast as I can"

I also use the sound of the bike to help me know where the mod-fast-intense rate is because the battery wore out of the numbers display~I need to get a new battery so I can see the rate,distance, time, etc.

07-03-2001, 10:06 AM
because I just did the calculations on that same site and it said that I had 26.6% body fat, which is cr*p. I used the calipers and the calculations at the site and I feel that is more accurate. I used both , the suprailiac and the 3 sites methods. Go there and try it! Let me know what you get. I think that calipers are a better way to determine BF than measuring with a tape measure (because wouldn't you also measure muscle that way?)

07-03-2001, 10:51 AM
The issue I have with the tape measure/weight way of measuring body fat is - how does THAT tell how much is muscle and how much is fat?

Let's take, for example, Pam B. (on L&S) Check out her thighs and calves - they are very muscular - along with the rest of her body now! I'm sure that using calipers, her body fat is extremely low (you can tell just by looking at her pix). However, if you used the tape measure/scale weight method of measuring body fat on her, I'd be willing to bet it would come out pretty high!

Pretty much every article I've read hails body fat measurement with calipers the 'gold standard'. I don't know about YOU, but I'm going to stick with it. Besides, it's a lot easier than having to take all those measurements!

07-03-2001, 12:04 PM
Sil- My thingie doesn't work either on the PTS. I tried a new battery and it still doesn't work. My husband says I probably need to get a new one. It is the same thing as on a regular bike. Thanks for the tips. I am going to use them.

07-04-2001, 12:53 AM
So - who's taking their FREE DAY tomorrow for the holiday??

I thought about doing that myself but decided to stay with my good ol' Sunday routine!

I am so excited - in 9 days, my first Challenge will be over! Then it's off to Free Week and NOT HITTING THE GYM for a solid seven days.

I've been working on updating my website in preparation for my 12 week pix and conclusions from my first Challenge...I am really happy with my progress - even though I feel that I haven't lost a lot of SCALE WEIGHT I still look great! Jim is so impressed!

So what am I going to do in my next Challenge?? First thing is - take ALL my measurements right off the bat. Not just hips and waist, but upper arm, thigh, calf, chest as well as BF %. I'm going to weigh myself TWICE - at baseline and at the 12th week. The rest of the time, the scale will remain in the closet away from my view.

I'm also going to really up the weights and REALLY go for those 10's. I'm going to set goals for myself as far as lifting weight. And I WILL be able to do chin-ups by the time I complete C2 (I don't know how many though...can't even do one right now).

I do know that my ABS are getting stronger. Today when I was doing Ab BootCamp, I decided to challenge myself during the second set - and brought the decline board up from the second bar to the third (out of four). I couldn't even straighten my legs but I did manage to complete the two last sets of Boot Camp at that level! Yay!

As for the Fourth, after my LBWO I'll be heading to the ranch to feed and work with the horses - maybe get a lesson in. Then it's off to my sister's house for a BBQ . She knows I'm doing BFL so I'll call her to find out what she's making. She always makes a big salad, corn on the cob and I don't know what kind of meat - so I'll just bring one of my handy Safeway Boneless Skinless chicken breasts and I'll be fine!

07-04-2001, 02:02 AM

Isn't it exciting to be finishing a challenge???? I was very excited to complete C1. If you're like me, you will feel INCREDIBLE the first few days afterwards...feeling like a real champion!!! Finishing is a very big deal!!!!

Like you I am doing BFL eating for the 4th. My "dinner" for the family BBQ is turkey burger and watermelon. :)

Sil, I would love to have your numbers!!! You are probably really toning up and getting lean. Good for you!!!

Shelley and Sil: I am in the 5'3 club also!!! Bunch o'shorties. :)

As for me, I worked in my garden all day in spite of the 105 degree heat. It's not like eastern humid heat so even though it was hot, hot, hot, I was able to work. I had a killer LBWO at the gym before setting out to work in the garden. A good day overall. DH burned his legs fishing on Sunday (He's 100% Italian and not used to burning but his legs never see the light of day) he wore shorts on Sunday on the boat thinking he should dress like a Californian...and paid dearly...he can't walk and says the burn is right to the muscle. I told him to go to the hospital but the Sicilian in him says no. Having him here was no picnic but I survived!!! :lol:

I'm having company beginning the 6th of July and ending the 11th of August. Although it's mostly people I love, I enjoy my space and I enjoy eating clean. Having constant company and my trip back east is going to be a challenge (and not the good kind!)

I'm already dreading it..................ack.
So if I'm AWOL you'll know where I am. :(


07-04-2001, 09:29 AM

I'm also keeping my free day on schedule (Thursday) so I will be having chicken and watermelon. We are helping our neighbor move today and will probably relax by the pool later in the day. That is if it doesn't rain!

MrsJim and Susan~~~I am so proud of you both. You are great inspirations to me. And, OMG~~~I just saw PamB's before pics!!!! I had assumed that she was always fit and slim but she has accomplished it in only 1 1/2 yrs. It's truly amazing.

Shelly~~~I have failed! I can not go for more than a day without getting on the scale. Even though I know that the scale weight will not be an accurate indicator of my progress, I still need to see the numbers. Is this sick, or what?

Ya'll have a fun-filled 4th !

07-04-2001, 09:45 AM
Sil- I also weighed today. Bad mistake! Back up the 2 lbs. I was down on Sunday. I am getting discouraged, because my clothes aren't fitting any different.

I am keeping my free day the same, so we are having Barbecue chicken (no skin, of course) and corn on the cob.

07-04-2001, 11:22 AM

What week are you on? I don't know if you remember me posting this but I've said it here and on L&S: I actually got bigger in week 5 (I wasn't weighing) and didn't see any movement until the end of week 6 and even then I didn't see it. I had to post my pix on L&S and ASK people if anything had happened. I was technically into week 7 and to me it was still very much NOT happening. I was one of those people who did not have any kind of movement that was satisfying TO ME until about week 10. If you notice, that's when I took new pix. :lol:
In weeks 7,8 and 9 I was still convinced that NOTHING was happening. I did a collage on my pix page on my web page and to me, there was NOTHING til week 7. and then it was just a teensy bit.

I did not weigh from week 2 til about week 11. I REALLY suggest you guys stay off the scale. You will see movement at the end but for now your body is changing so much, it will be a roller coaster ride. Now that I'm in C2, I weighed myself once at the beginning and had put on 5 lbs during Free Week (probably water but still) and almost had a heart attack. So I am staying off it now. I can't afford to keep hitting myself in the head with that hammer. :dizzy:

I posted the b4 and now pix of Pam on L&S because so many newbies had asked about her and I started to realize that a lot of people didn't really know where she started. If you ever doubt that BFL works if you work it the way it is written, look at Pam.

Well, I have more housecleaning and gardening to do today. I hope the gym is empty!! I gotta do some work.

Have a good 4th!!!!!!!!!!

07-04-2001, 01:37 PM
Susanje-I am in the middle of my 3rd week. I know it sounds stupid, I just expected at least a few results this soon. I still am trying not to weigh. I just expected at least my shorts to be a tiny bit looser!

I've been cleaning up my bird room. I have 3 birds (a cockatoo, and 2 parrots.) The cockatoo has a dander that makes everything in the room have a white dust on it. I have been vacuuming walls and the closet in the room. What a mess! I got so busy that I'm just having my Myoplex drink.

Have a great 4th!!

07-04-2001, 03:38 PM
I know, I know. As I said, I really was disappointed when I bulked out in Week 5 and hadn't gotten any smaller. In Week 5 my fat pants got TIGHTER. It was from putting on muscle but not losing much fat yet. I know it was a good thing but it was very discouraging. Talk about wanting to walk away from it all! Even in week 7 I felt my losses were miniscule (if you look at my pix, it might seem like there was a significant change, but to me, I was still in the same size and very unhappy until week 10). I was lucky to have listened to people who had no loss until week 11 and I hung in there with some hope.

If you're doing it by the book, you simply have to lose inches and body fat. There's no way not to unless you're not hitting your 10s or doing extra cardio or tweaking (or cheating) on the food plan. Shelley if you are doing all the right things you will lose. It might not be for a few more weeks but it will come. JUST HANG IN THERE!!! Have you read the Hussman site? He explains this well.


07-04-2001, 04:19 PM
Check out my 8 week progress pix on the Transformation Gallery in L&S - especially look at the baseline and four week pix...not much difference, is there?? I admit to being a bit disappointed but I kept on because I could feel the changes within my body!

Susan's right - just be persistent and the (visible) changes will come - and do read the Hussman site (especially about fat coming off from within the muscles first).

Hope everyone is having a good Fourth! My sister just called - she's grilling chicken and steak - along with corn on the cob. I'm bringing potato salad at her request (fortunately I DESPISE potato salad!).

I had the greatest morning! First my LBWO (I hit 10's on all my sets - just upped the weight...) then to the ranch to clean up. I thought I was having a lesson today - no - Rooster told me to put a bridle on Callie and go for a trail ride (my first). It was so much fun - I went with a couple of other gals. Just got back and I've got to hit the shower - I'm filthy! Take care.

07-04-2001, 07:35 PM
Thanks for the words of encouragement. I am following the food plan and hitting my 10's (for the most part.) I have a complete print out of the Hussman site, which I have read over and over. I guess I was just hoping that I would be different and that the improvements would show up quickly.