WW Clubs and Groups - Turtle Club #31




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Lin S
06-26-2001, 03:38 PM
Hi, Turtle Buddies,

Here it is - my "official" version of the fable:

The Hare and the Tortoise

A hare met a tortoise one day and made fun of him for the slow and clumsy way in which he walked.

The tortoise laughed and said, "I will run a race with you any time that you choose."

"Very well," replied the hare, "we will start at once."

The tortoise immediately set off in his slow and steady way without waiting a moment or looking back. The hare, on the other hand, treated the matter as a joke and decided to take a little nap before starting, for she thought that it would be an easy matter to overtake her rival.

The tortoise plodded on, and meanwhile the hare overslept herself, with the result that she arrived at the winning-post only to see that the tortoise had got in before her.

Moral: Slow and steady wins the race.

This comes from a book handed down from my grandmother to my mother to me. The book is so old it doesn't have a copyright date or an author/editor's credit.

That fable has been the motivation for us turtles for about two years. Someone on the ancient WW forum mentioned the fable and I discovered it was very motivational for me. I talked about it in posts and other people said that the tortoise philosophy worked for them, too. So, I started a thread for us turtle types.

We work toward accepting that our bodies have a natural speed of weight loss when we choose to live a healthy life, instead of "going on a diet". Many of us have experienced "the diets" as go on/lose weight-- go off/ gain the weight plus more back.

We choose to perservere with each choice we make throughout the day. We believe that choosing to be slow, steady turtles helps us to learn the skills we need to learn in order to not only lose the weight, but keep it off and become the healthiest people we can be.

So, welcome to all who realize that losing and maintaining a weight loss is a lifestyle change. And who want support as we all learn the skills we need to successfully make the changes that will allow us to reach our goals.

Happy turtlin', everyone!

Lin


Lin S
06-26-2001, 03:56 PM
Hi, Turtles,

Wow, you guys have so much great stoff to say today.

Judy, glad to hear from you. Great job with staying OP.

Lauren, I know what you mean about needing change to shake things up. I do that, too. I usually change things like try new recipes or start using my stickers. Or do a different kind of exercise. Things like that. Glad to hear that you're feeling better about how you're doing now. Wait a few days and reassess. Things always look worse to me at TOM! Once it's over, I get a better perspective on situations.

What a weird situation you have at work! I can't imagine needing to be laid off so I could take a job I really want. Good luck to you.

Kathy, glad to hear things are going well for you, too. I love veggies, now that I'm grownup and can cook them myself. My mom makes the worst veggies in the world! I love a variety of ways to prepare them. Like Mousie, I love soups. I love them steamed. I love salads. One of the best ways to cook veggies, especially if you don't like them very much is to grill or roast them. Steamed veggies can be perked up with a little lemon juice or balsamic vinegar. Remember, you get to count beans and potatoes as veggies, too. I forget to do that sometimes.

Kimmers, congratulation on the 3.5 pounds gone this week. I know what you mean about feeling out of control, but you did the best you could. So, put it behind you and move on. You're right about this being a lifelong process. It often seems as though I get one lesson learned, something else crops up.

Things are OK today. I'm OP and just about to go eat. I hope you all have a great day.

Happy turtlin'! :D

Lin

Kimmers
06-26-2001, 05:02 PM
Thanks Lin - I appreciate the support.

I wrote a big long post on #30 that ate up all our space (sorry!:( ) but there are messages for everyone on it if you're interested.

Almost time to go home!
Kimmers


Itryharder
06-26-2001, 11:52 PM
Hi Everyone!
Kimmers,
Please don't worry about your nice, long post. I loved it. Your words of encouragement for me hit the mark and I have a feeling you did that for everyone else too. Good post!
Lin,
Thanks for keeping this turtle post going. It's a huge help. I am OP today, was OP yesterday. Have an agreement with dh not to eat out this week. Made a chicken mole for dinner that was great. Served it over rice. Stopped at a grocer to stock up on fruits and veggies. I am doing this. That doing is a great word.
Congrats to all of you who are losing weight. We've got a nice thing going here.
Lauren,
I came in the middle of your wanting to be laid off so you could take a job you really want. Now, let me tell you--life is strange.
Veep and Lori--hi hope all goes well
Kathy,
Good for you. Veggies are definitely the way to go. The other day I went through the files here at 3fatchicks to see if there were some new recipes, and sure enough there were some lovely ones for vegetables and salads.
Everyone--take care, do this, and keep on turtlin'
Love,
Judy
234/wwtomorrow/thinner

Lauren H
06-27-2001, 09:57 AM
First, Lin, in my funk I managed to miss that you had lost 8 pounds this month. Way to go! Given the stresses you've been dealing with, and given what you've said is your usual reaction to stress, that's practically miraculous. You're especially to be commended. If I could figure out the ASCII equivalent of a wave, I'd type you one here. :)

Kimmers, congrats on your loss as well!

Yes, I guess it is weird that I have to be laid off to take the job I want. I've been in consulting so long now that it just seems "normal." Consulting companies make their money off their staff, so when they lose someone to a rival company, it directly affects their bottom line (and increases that of their rival company). If I weren't billing on a project right now, it would probably be much easier to get laid off. Amazing; I go for months with no billable project, then right when I want to get laid off -- I'm billable!

I'm traveling to Canada today and tomorrow (for work, of course), so I'm not sure if I'll be checking in here. I'm bringing my laptop and if I have a decent connection tonight at the hotel I may check in. This group is such a help to me. Kimmers, I especially appreciated your post. Thanks.

I've been doing well pointwise and trackingwise and exercisewise. Travel is always a challenge in those areas, but fortunately it's only overnight. I'll aim for seafood and salads where possible; that helps. TOM just ended, so that has helped too. But I do still feel down and in a funk; not entirely sure why. Probably it's the job situation.

Bye, all, and keep on turtling. The alternative isn't pretty!

--Lauren

Lin S
06-27-2001, 06:54 PM
Hi, Turtles,

Kimmers, we're the queens of long posts and yours was terrific! I love it when we use up all the space and I have to start a new thread. Somehow it makes me feel as if we turtles are really cookin'!

Judy, congrats on being OP yesterday and today. I love chicken mole! Your post makes me want to get out that recipe and make it again.

Lauren, you're entitled to a funk! I'm so glad to hear you're back on track. Seafood is one of my favorite restaurant meals, too. I know how difficult things can be especially when you don't really know what's caused that funk. I'll keep you in my prayers.

Lori, veep, Mousie, and everyone else--Hope you're all having a great day.

I'm still OP. I had one of those extra good crying jags this morning. My husband gets really upset when I cry, but I told him I either had to cry or eat and eating was counterproductive. I needed the stress relief. He understood, but he didn't like it, which I understand.

OTOH--he had a phone interview this afternoon. It's not the company I mentioned earlier. The guy is doing some other phone interviews and will call Paul back if he wants to set up a face-to-face interview. We really hope that one of these jobs works out. Thanks for all of your continuing prayers for this situation.

We are really hoping that he finds a decent job long before that severance pay runs out, which will be about the end of August. We have some car maintenance to do and both of us need new glasses and . . . There's always stuff you have to put off in this situation. So, we're really hoping one of these works out and pays at least what he was making at his last job. Better yet, enough to cover the raise he would have gotten if the company hadn't laid off everyone.

Gotta go--

Happy turtlin'! :p

Lin

harley
06-27-2001, 08:40 PM
Hey Turtles!!! Just a short note to say "howdy doody!!" everyone is doing so good. WE can all be proud of ourselves..Oh we may get in funks once in awhile, but that is ok, we just got to pull ourselves out of it..(with the help of other turtles of course..)

I liked that you went ahead and cryed Lin..I know that sounds funny, but you did good. getting all that emotion out is so good for you...I try to feel my feelings, not stuff them, then when I have had enough...I let it go. I am sure you were doing the same...

I have been op I think..This is still all so new, it is still kinda hard, esp when you go out to eat. Yesterday i was going to have left over chicken breast but dh wanted to eat at his favorite restuant..We both had the steak. I asked for soup instead of potatoe or french fries.( I had already had a small potatoe for lunch) the salad was included and grilled bread...I had 1/2 bread, 1/2 steak, all soup, and 1/2 salad...I did not have dessert as my dh did, and for the second time in 3 days I passed up cake at work...I can not believe my self... Today I got hungry about 3 1/2 hours after I had eaten so I went to the store (had a few minutes before my next patient would come) and got baby carrots, and snow peas and then a cup of coffee. I ate lots of them, and finally filled up enough to make it to luncy...Had WW dinner for lunch. Got hungry at 4:00 but that is ok. I just had the rest of my steak, and will eat vegies in an hour or so... just wanted to say thanks for being here...I love to read all your post and all your encouragements...I am just feeling so motivated..I don't think I have felt this way in my whole life...Thank You!!!

Itryharder
06-28-2001, 08:35 AM
Hi Turtles,
Harley, so glad you're working out something in WW that works for you! Isn't it great? With the freedom of points and the support of 3fatchicks and the Turtles, we'll all do this!
Lin, you are amazing. I say cry your head off if that helps. The stress you have right now needs some venting. Maybe you can cry in a bucket or out of dh's sight LOL so you both come out better after the emotion release. You are so smart to keep OP during this time. Good for you. This could have been a time of huge weight gain and then you'd have to deal with the resulting bad feelings. So, the way you're handling your situation is exactly what WW wants and what you want. Way to go, Turtle.
I'm doing it too. Yesterday I went to the morning WW WI which is what I'll be doing for the summer until I return to work in Sept. The scale wasn't what I had hoped, but it was what I had earned. On a positive note, I moved my scale out of the bathroom where it was too tempting. I hopped on it more than I wanted to and let my eating be determined by what the number registered. Not a good idea. So now I am determined to let the WW WI be the only time I step on the scale. I also bought a spiral notebook and I am taking the next step in journaling. I am using a page a day and recording all I eat. I eat often in tiny amounts and the small WW journal was too tiny. Yesterday I exercised and did some heavy duty housework, so I'm feeling great about that. I recorded that and then I wrote a sentence or two about how I was feeling. Since I know I eat in response to emotions, I am sure this will be helpful. I did eat under points yesterday just because I postponed eating until noon. I was not hungry because I loaded up on veggies with my pasta. My head is in a much better place than it has been for ages. I have the 4th of July planned out and I am creating a plan for a social occasion today.
Kimmers and Veep and Lauren and everybody--hi there--keep on doing this and happy turtlin'.
Judy
234/215/thinner;) :cool:

mousie
06-28-2001, 12:31 PM
Just checking in. It sounds like everyone's holding in there!

Lin, cry buckets. If that's what it takes, that's what it takes. You go, girl. ;)

I'm expecting my WI tonight to be very high, because it's TOM for me and I tend to hold about 3-5 pounds of water for the first 3 days. Then I drop it all, no problem, but for those days NO amount of water I drink will break it. I've tried, believe me--I drink about 3 liters a day anyway, and when I'm trying to break I try to double that amount.

We rigged up my bike and got DH's rear brake fixed, so we can do Midnight Madness in August. I went out to try it out, and to try out my legs, and I rode about 9 miles in 1 hour. Hopped off, tied my bike on the bike rack, no problem. Had to drive home, right, which is about 15 minutes. So I get here, and I tried to get out of the car, and I had Jello for legs! I was sooooo wobbly! But not sore the next day, which is cool.

We were out yesterday afternoon, and a company called for DH! They are "very interested" in his resume and want him to call and set up an interview today. YAY! This is nice from a money perspective (oh, you can guess how nice!) and also from a WW perspective.

With DH working and out of the house, I can exercise when I want, and eat what I want throughout the day, without him trying to throw me off. And, I think there is a lot of merit to the thought that he may be feeling so insecure right now that he doesn't want me to change, too. When we were in London he was working, and I would go to classes, go blading in Hyde Park, that sort of thing, and then I would fix healthy meals for dinner. He was fine with that and didn't try to sabotage me, so once he has a job here and feels like he's being a "proper husband", I'm hoping he'll feel more secure and let me do what I need to do for myself. I can handle one tempting meal a day (dinner with DH, if he's working). The thing I can't handle is the constant tempting snacks and suggestions!

Keep your turtle chins up!

Lin S
06-28-2001, 07:57 PM
Hi, Turtles,

Harley, it's great to hear from you again. I'm glad to hear things are going well. It gets easier the longer you do it because you learn the point values of the foods you eat most often. It's funny, too, how sometimes the points fool you. I once was checking out the point count of two flavors of ice cream. Same brand, one was low fat and the other regular. The regular had fewer points!

Judy, way to go on getting rid of that pesky home scale. I've always been a believer in weighing only once a week and on the same scale. There's a web site, Fitness Jumpsite, that has an excellent article on the subject of how scales lie. Unfortunately, I don't have the URL, so I can't make a link. It's not too difficult to find, though.

I also like your new approach to journaling. It sounds like you're adjusting the way you journal to the way you do the program.

Mousie, isn't PMS a pain? I'm facing that right now, too. But it's getting easier the longer I do the calcium. You probably should try getting 1200 mg. daily, if you decide to try taking extra calcium to help PMS. I need between that and 1500 mg. because of my age.

I'm so glad for your dh. I hope this job works out for him.

Things are going about the same for me. My dh hasn't heard back after his phone interview yesterday. But we did find out that someone else was hired for the other job.

I'm OP and I have 8 points banked. I need them because this weekend we're going to San Jose, which means most meals out. It's David's birthday and one of his friends is hosting a lunch at a Sushi buffet. I'm not really worried about dealing with it. Restaurant food isn't usually a problem for me, as long as I order carefully and don't overstuff myself.

I had a couple of thoughts about this program that I wanted to share. First, I've been noticing some minor changes in my appearance. Nothing earth-shattering. But I realized that I need to really look in the mirror every day. I need to make a point of cementing my current body in my mind. Otherwise, I get a shock when I see my smaller self and start gaining weight because I don't look like what I think I look like. Sounds weird, I know. But most people are more comfortable with the familiar and I've been overweight for a very long time. I need to do whatever it takes to get all of my brain on the same page. Part of it wants to see smaller and part seems to want to stay the same. I need to start making some journal entries to work on this issue or I'll end up sabotaging myself.

The other thing is that I now weigh a few pounds less than I did at the beginning of last year (2000). (I found my old journal.) That feels really great. And I realized that for much of the last year and a half I was learning things that are helping me to be more consistent with my weight loss now. I've occasionally been a little hard on myself about the times when I wasn't strictly following the program. But after seeing the lessons I've learned and how they're helping me now, I realize that I needed that time. So, I'm a turtle, but I doubt I'll ever weigh as much as I once did. After all, I stayed within the same range for a year and a half! And now I'm losing again. That's real progress.

Hope all of you turtles, whether posting members or reading members, are having a great day.

Happy turtlin'! :cool:

Lin

Lauren H
06-29-2001, 01:26 PM
Great points, Lin, about keeping the weight off for a year and a half. Way to go.

Me too, and it's really a first for me. I obviously need to watch myself very carefully (can you say JOURNAL, JOURNAL, JOURNAL), though, because it looks like I truly could gain it all back fairly quickly if I stay too long in unconscious mode.

Also, that's great about banking points for the weekend. I love going out for sushi; it's so low in points. Have fun!

I've exercised four times this week so far. I plan to go for a long walk downtown to the used book store tomorrow, too. I've had mixed success with my points; I was over yesterday and the day before, mostly due to eating out while traveling. I could've stayed within my points yesterday, though, and didn't. But I did write everything down.

I snuck a peek at the scale (I know; I'm not supposed to weigh in until Sunday), and it has me down 4.5 pounds. That's mostly due to TOM ending, I'm sure, although that's an unusual amount of water gain for me. It's probably related to all the overeating I'd been doing, too. In any case, I'm relieved that half of that nine-pound gain seemed to be water.

Well, work is heating up again and I'll be here until quite late tonight, so I'd better get to it. Have a great Friday, everyone

--Lauren
274/219/down

Tara
06-29-2001, 02:59 PM
Lauren - Just wanted to let you know that some people at Dotti's are missing you! There is a thread in the Daily called "I miss someone..." and a couple of them are inquiring about you. They wanted me to tell you Hello (since I knew you posted here at 3FC)

Tara :D

Lin S
06-29-2001, 03:34 PM
Hi, Turtles,

Lauren, what you said about gaining back weight quickly if you remain in unconscious mode too long is one of the worst aspects of being overweight. We all go through so much to lose a small amount of weight, but it flys back on twice or more times as quickly.

Congratulations on getting back in the habit of journaling. And exercising four times this week. And going down that 4.5 pounds. Don't you think it's possible that some of that may be fat, since you said that you don't usually gain as much water as that? I bet it is and you're back to losing again.

Hi, Tara. You're always welcome to post here, if you're so inclined. I love Dotti's site, too.

PMS is being a pain, but not as much as it has in the past. So, I'm continuing to record and get in that calcium. I'm OP, but I may end up using a couple of my banked points today. I'm sure it will work out in the long run.

Speaking of being OP, there was a thread on Dotti's asking what you consider being off program. I found the answers to be very interesting. For me, being off program is totally ingoring my desire to make positive changes in this area of my life. I consider myself OP when I'm doing at least one thing towared my goal, especially since my recent realization that there's so much more to long-term success than just staying within my points, drinking water, and exercising. Those are the main "things we do", but if we don't deal with the rest of it--how to cope without turning to food for comfort, how to deal with body changes, how to live this way every day, etc., then we end up back doing the yoyo dance because we haven't learned the lessons and skills we need to get and keep off the weight. All we've done is diet. At least, that's how it feels to me.

Hope all you turtles are having a great day.

Happy turtlin'! :D

Lin

Lauren H
06-29-2001, 08:03 PM
Tara, thanks! What a surprise! I had no idea I'd made so many cyber friends over there. What a supportive group.

Basically, when my work and my life heat up like this, I whittle down my online time to just the Turtles and maybe the 100 club, and I let everything else slide. When I have the time, I love to go to Dotti's and to Wendie's sites. They're both great and full of wonderful people. Wish I had more time.

Hey, if I get laid off soon and don't get hired by this other great company, maybe I will have more time. We didn't have our big layoffs today, but management finally confirmed that we will have very big layoffs in July. I expect to go then. I told my project manager today that if she had to let someone go, I'd volunteer.

Lin, I *really* like your take on what constitutes being off-program, and I completely agree with it. Being off-program doesn't mean eating some particularly fattening food, or mindfully going over my points. I agree with you -- it means "going unconscious," or just not trying to get or stay healthy anymore. I guess that's why journaling is just so key.

--Lauren

Itryharder
06-29-2001, 09:14 PM
Lin,
I had participated in the OP discussion and then lost it in cyberspace. To sum up my feelings, I'm off program when I ignore WW suggestions and eat out of emotional needs. It's not a forgetting or a mistake. It's purposeful and hurtful. WW is just not that bad a lifestyle choice and it has great consequences. When I am off program something big is happening in my head and I am successful when I stop, analyze what is happening and then write about it. When I am not successful, I eat.
Hey Lauren, congrats on the weight loss. I am so happy the gain seemed to be temporary.
Everybody--take care and keep on turtlin'
Tomorrow I have a NY wedding to go to, so I'll have to plan my food carefully.
:wave:

harley
06-30-2001, 01:02 PM
Hi Turtles...Boy you guys are all so inspiring!!! I am so glad I came to stay!!!
Lin...I too feel I am off program when I delibertly eat something I don't have points for, or do have points for but then that messes up my meal plan casue it eats them up. I did that last night...Someone brought my husband homemade cookies, and they looked so perfect. I didn't need to eat them, didn't have the poitns, and figured.,...hay..I turned down like 6 opportunities to eat junk food (something I am trying to avoid) so...whynot..and did...I don't feel good about it now and that Is why I dont have things like that hanging around..I am glad my kids are out of the house, and when my DD comes home to live in our trailer until she moves back to Kiev..she will buy her own junk food and keep it in the trailer..

Weigh is in about 1/2 hour. I am nervous..Isn't it so stupid to get so nervous regarding this weigh in??? I guess I am just worried cause of the few times I did eat what I hadn't planned on. I really tried hard (and it wasn't hard) and I want that scale to go down...Right now I have this determination that I have not had in a long time...My sister has a motto from OA..."There is no choice." (I know there is a choice witht this plan, but I am talking about eating beond what one has planned) It is a good saying, and that is how I am feeling...I am making good choices but that same stupid feeling comes that says. "you did not lose...you gained 5 lbs" and i know tht is not possible!!! I will report back later to tell yu the outcome.

Yesterday I paid for my dues to the health club..I had to join the 12 month program so I had better go. It is costing me $49.00 a month. My other center was only 25.00 but there were no water programs..Right now I want to start doing some kind of water class every day. I need to go get a few more suits..Maybe I will pick up a size smaller just to give me some encouragement!!!

Well thanks for listening!!!

Kathy/harley

Lauren H
07-01-2001, 02:30 PM
Judy, good points about deliberately making bad choices. I think my "going unconscious" is a form of denial -- I'm not REALLY making bad choices if I don't think about it while I do it. Is that dumb or what??? Well, I didn't get up to 274 pounds by being smart about this.

Kathy, good for you joining the health club -- and with water programs, too. That sounds like fun. Good luck with the weigh-in, and remember to keep it all in perspective. This is for life, not just for a week or two, so the main thing is watching the overall weight curve go down over time. That's one of the problems I personally had with weighing in every week at WW (I don't go anymore, haven't for a couple years). I just got too wrapped up in what my weight was that particular moment in time. Anyway, you're doing great, and we're glad you discovered us, too!

My official weight loss for the past week is 5.5 pounds, which definitely takes the edge off that 9-pound gain. I've tracked all week, worked out four times, and am finishing the week about 2-3 points from where I should be. I'll take that as a win.

So now I'm 3.5 above where I was when I left for vacation, and 4 above virgin fat territory.

I have new incentive to get to virgin fat territory -- a new outfit! I've been drooling over a jacket and skirt in the Coldwater Creek catalog for 2 years now. It recently went on sale, although it's still very expensive, and I finally decided to get it. I decided to order a 1X, which is a little snug for me now in their sizes. But it turns out all they had left was an XL, not a plus size. So I bought it! I figure I won't be able to fit properly into it for another 20 pounds, though I'll know more when it arrives. So I'm going to hang it up in the bedroom and look at it every day. How's that for inspiration? If you want to see the jacket, it's at

Lauren's Coldwater Creek jacket (http://www.coldwatercreek.com/asp/product.asp?productid=595&ensembleid=3664&shp_id=6BA8B289-C4BC-2E37-B765-EE692B97BE2A)

The skirt is the same cream color as the tank; it's a linen/rayon broomstick skirt.

Onward and downward,

Lauren
274/218/down

Lin S
07-01-2001, 04:02 PM
Hi, Turtle Buddies,

I love all of your definitions of being "off program". I think the broader persepective we're all discussing regarding the program shows a true commitment to making this a lifestyle, not a diet. And I think that it shows that, long term, we turtles are a very successful group.

Kathy, I think you ought to rethink your idea about totally avoiding junk food. Most of us have found that totally avoiding anything doesn't work, long term, precisely because we eventually are faced with whatever it is we are avoinding and it just looks so good, and we haven't had it in so long, and . . . over points we go. So, most of us plan in some junk food, occasionally.

For example, I've been potato chip nuts the last few months durning PMS (which is a new thing for me. I never used to be a salt craver). So, this month, I bought some low fat baked chips and I eat half a sandwich and a 1 oz. serving (and some veggies, fruit, etc.). It's really helped me to stay in control much better than when I tried not to eat any. Eventually, I'd end up eating a very large serving of the regular ones.

It takes time to get the scale into perspective. I use it as a guide for long term trends. But I find that I really need that guide. My scale died. It had one of those lithium batteries that supposedly don't ever need replacing. :rolleyes: Well, the batteries don't need replacing. You have to replace the whole darn thing or pay a small fortune to ship it to the manufacturer to get it fixed. So, I got an inexpensive, strain-guage scale that uses 9-volt batteries! I'll recheck my weight tomorrow morning. I expect I'll be a couple or three pounds up due to water retention. I don't consider that a weight gain.

Lauren, super contgratulations on the 5.5 pound loss. Way to go! I hope you'll take a pic of you in that new outfit, once you can wear it. We'd love to see you in it.

Your comment about being kind of in denial reminds me of what I do sometimes. I've found that I can't do that if I'm writing everything down, even if I'm not counting points that day. And if I know I'm going to write it down, I make different choices than I would if I'm not journaling.

I took my journal page with me yesterday for my trip to San Jose. I didn't write anything down until I got back, but having it made me think about what I ate and remember that I'd be recording it later. The buffet is an Asian seafood buffet. The sushi was terrific. And they have a ton of other great stuff. We went out to dinner, too, but I only ate about 1/3 of my meal because I wasn't very hungry after the buffet. It all evened out.

Anyway, I stuck to my plan. I took water, calcium supplements and vitamin pill with me. Did a lot of walking because we went window shopping, starting with a really good bookstore. So, I feel really good about how things went during our trip.

I'm struggling with being optimistic right now about my life circumstances. My brother's landlord sold his two houses to a company that wants to build an office building. So, he will not have a place to live starting in October. He's having two surgeries between now and then, so he really cannot look for or move easily. My mom is going to buy a trailer to put on her property for him to live in until he's back on his feet, assuming the surgeries are successful.

Paul still hasn't found a job. I'm extra frustrated because I know that if we still lived in SJ, I could find work that, combined with his unemployment checks, could keep us in our place longer.

I'll keep you all posted. Thanks for keeping us in your prayers.

Happy turtlin'! :)

Lin

harley
07-01-2001, 05:47 PM
Hi fellow turtles...I did good!!! I lost 3 lbs!!! I can't help be excited cause you just don't know me...I am just the worst eater!!! and give me a good nutritious food plan? it goes out the window after 2 days..but I did it..I stuck to the plan for a week!!! and now it has been one week and one day!!!

Lin thanks for the thoughts on my junk food and I agree with you to a point..I will plan on eating my favorite foods, but what I do not want to do, is eat just anything anytime...I work at a hospital as an admitter...I work around alot of nurses..Nurses like to eat, and some like to bake, so they bring in cakes, cookies, chips, every thing you can think of for no reason besides they want to, and thoes are the times I don't want to eat them...I also have a bad habit of eating alot of fast food, including milk shakes...I don't want to do that much any more either..I just want to change things...I feel so much better when I don't eat sugar...when I eat sugar it makes me want to eat more...If i don't eat an unplanned snack than It is better for me then not. So I am giving up the unplanned snack..No one esp me has ever died for saying "no" regarding a sugary snack.

Lin where do you live??? is your husband a computer person that got layed off during the down sizing??? there sure alot of that going on in Califronia..I met a gal tht is moving her son and his family back to Minnisota. She said the work there is fantastic...Lots of work everywhere..It sounds cold to me!!!!Hawaii had lots of work, mostly in the shops,

Doing well today...On my 2nd 24 oz water...I am getting more use to it. and plan on going to the gym tom...

You all have a nice sunday...

Kathy

Kimmers
07-02-2001, 11:15 AM
Yo - turtle buds!

I'll post more later, but I wanted to say hi and see how everyone is doing - lots of good losses lately and other successes! Very exciting! I hope everyone has a wonderful holiday with lots of nice weather.

I lost another 3.5 on Saturday, for a total of 45 pounds gone. Yay! I'll be weighing in on Thursday morning this week and going to Canada for the weekend, so I hope to just maintain next week. We usually do a lot of eating and drinking in Canada, but I'll try to have smaller portions.

My son is leaving Wednesday for a 3-week trip to Europe. He's a student ambassador and will be visiting Italy, Austria, Switzerland, and France. I'm very jealous, but I'm sure he'll have a great time. The only thing I'm worried about is what he'll eat when he's there - he's too picky. That would not be a problem for me if I was going.:lol:

Have a great week, everyone!
Kimmers
332/287/269 (2nd 10% goal)

Lauren H
07-02-2001, 01:36 PM
Lin, great job on your day out. And I hear you about how writing it down -- or even knowing that you're going to have to write it down -- makes a difference in whether or not you eat something. It's weird, the games our minds play.

Kathy and Kimmers, way to go on that weight loss! That's great.

Kathy, if something is a "red light" food for you, you're right to avoid it when you're vulnerable. One of my major eating goals is to learn how to eat all foods in moderation. It's tough! Sometimes I can do it, but often I can't. So I find that drawing borders around foods helps. For example, I will eat ice cream -- but I won't keep it in the house. I'll only eat it if I've planned for it (as opposed to someone bringing it to work), and if I go somewhere outside the house to get it and eat it. I buy it in single-serving sizes -- a cone or a dish. Right now, I can't even keep Skinny Cows in the house. (Those are lowfat ice cream treats, only 2 points apiece.) But I'm not telling myself I can't eat ice cream; I'm just allowing it in certain circumstances.

There are other foods, like M&Ms, that I just can't eat right now. I don't see that as ideal, though, and I plan to work on it once I'm less vulnerable. I don't know; I may eventually have to accept that I simply can't eat some foods except in seriously restrained circumstances (i.e., someone hands me a small handful of M&Ms or something).

I also agree with the sugar thing. I find that eating sweets makes me wants to keep eating sweets for *days* afterward. Sometimes it's just not worth it.

Think I'll go have some fruit. :)

Lin, I'm sorry to hear about your brother's housing situation. That sounds really tough. I guess the bright side is that he'll be near your mom when he needs home care. :( My husband and I are praying for you.

Onward,

Lauren

Lin S
07-02-2001, 03:49 PM
Hi, Turtles

Way to go, Kathy! 3 pounds is terrific!

I know what you mean about just "eating anything anytime". That's what got us all here in the first place. And when coworkers bake, it's especially hard because you don't want to hurt their feelings. Good luck! That's a hard situation to deal with.

Re: the not being able to stop with sugary foods or other refined carbs-- One of the WW booklets I did a short time back recommended that I avoid eating carbohydrates by themselves. I should combine them with protein or protein and fat. So, I stopped eating them in between meals and started eating them with a meal. That seems to make a difference in my ability to stop with the serving I've planned to eat.

My husband works in Silicon Valley, CA. He works in electronic hardware--R & D and manufacturing and production. We've searched the web for jobs all over, but most of the jobs in his field say they won't pay relocation. That usually means they won't even consider you if you don't already live there. But, we've sent out the resumes anyway. We've sent out over 90 resumes so far. This week we will probably not be finding many new postings because of the holiday.

Kimmers, super job! 3.5 more. 45 gone is wonderful! Have a great time in Canada. And wish your son a great trip from the turtles!

Lauren, I envy you being able to deal with red light foods at your own pace. Having kids forced me to push that issue. I couldn't keep foods I had difficulties with out of the house all of the time. I had to learn to deal with them. But the up side of having kids is that they (and their army of friends) demolish anything tempting before I could do much damage anyway.

Well, I got my new scale and my old one must have been bad for a while. My new one weighs me at a higher number than the old one. :s: I checked it with sack of flour and it's accurate. I haven't changed any, so the number doesn't matter. What matters is which direction that number moves overall.

I'm doing OK today. I'll proably be a little over points, but not a lot. I'm doing really well for PMS and that's moving in the right direction.

Happy turtlin'! :D

Lin

Itryharder
07-02-2001, 04:59 PM
Kimmers and Kathy,
What great weight losses. Keep on keepin' on. Kimmers, you've lost so much weight in such a short amount of time. You must be very pleased. You sound all together. Lauren and Lin, love to catch your conversations. Lin, I'm so sorry for your brother. He has enough to think about without worrying about housing as well. And so do you. My prayers are coming through cyberspace for you.
All goes well here. I exercised and banked points for the wedding I attended. Yesterday I was hungry (wedding aftermath) so I cooked and ate a batch of vegetables. That helped a lot. Tonight we'll barbecue and I'm looking forward to dinner.
Life is confusing right now, but I find keeping a more extensive journal and writing my emotions as I start the day helps to keep me focused. I also have been staying off the scale and hoping for a good result on Wed. morning. It's hard for me to stay off the scale even though I've moved it, but I 'm doing it.
I'm really pleased to be a part of the Slow Turtles and you are all helping me tremendously. About 2 months ago I was closing in on 200 pounds and really focusing on that number. Instead, I went backwards, set myself up really good, and have excess weight to lose. Now I am considering having the WW WI just tell me if I've lost or not and maybe I can slide under 200 pounds without knowing it and in that way I can avoid number anxiety!
Just a thought--we'll see what I decide to do on Wednesday.
You all take care. I hope job opportunities come in soon. Good for everyone for journaling and doing what's best for themselves.
Judy
234/211/thinner;)

harley
07-03-2001, 02:36 AM
Hi Turtles!!! How you all doing???

Kimmers...good weight loss. You are doing a great job...!!!\\
Itry: That was a good thing you did for the wedding...I use to have this habit that says...special occaisions were special so just eat what ever is put infront of me...well as you prob know..thoes special occasions spring up more than we realize so every week we have one of thoes days..it was good you planned and ate accordinaly...

Lin: you have alot of things going on in your life...but you are still doing this program..way to go..just think how easy it will be once all the stress is over...unless you let your gaurd down. and think...let your happy appetite get the better of you..(i know that i do that too. eat for happiness!!)

Well I exercised for the first time in lets say...3 months..It felt very good. I did't get to swim, but plan on that tomorrow. I like the new club very much..lots of group things to join, from water areobics to abs, stretching, just name it..they prob got it!!! So i will take advantage.. I did it for about 40 minutes...15 on two machines and 10 on the step machine!!!

Drank all my water...and then some...I think it was a very good day..

Have a Tuesday!!!

Kathy

Itryharder
07-03-2001, 07:46 PM
Kathy,
You are awesome. Glad you really like the new gym and that you got so much exercise in already. Way to go! You are so right about those "special" days. Last week I had two--an end of the year party and a wedding. Pre-WW that would have been good for at least a two pound gain and I probably would have continued to eat throughout the week. Now with WW I lost a pound this week, weighed in a day early, and am doing this.
Good luck for everyone on the fourth of July. Hey-=it's Independence Day so let's be independent of the snares of parties, etc. and do the right thing for ourselves. I'm bringing a lite cherry angelfood cake for dessert tomorrow and some fresh cherries to nibble on.
Everyone have fun and keep on turtlin'
Judy
234/210/thinner

harley
07-04-2001, 10:47 AM
HELLO FELLOW TURTLES!!! HAPPY 4TH TO ALL OF YOU.!!!

I am one of the unlucky ones..I have to work today...My fault, I didn't ask for it off. Good thing is that it is not the evening shfit. At least I can put some tri tip on the barbie and go watch the fireworks...DD and SIL will be with us...I like spending time with then, since I know I won't see them for a year once they leave.

I am planning a nice dinner tonight and hopefully can stay within my points. I will get myself some skinny cows for dessert and buy the other family reg ice cream, and tell them stay away from my cows...

Had a good eating day yesterday...Went to dinner and had a something I had not tried before..It was called chick Fieta salad with salsa and sc on the side. the funny thing was...it is is stir fried up in Tereiki sauce so you wouldn't think it would be good with the salsa..but it really was..So I think I choose good. it had tons of vegies...and on lettuce and not rice..(not that I am against rice but I would rather eat brown rice If I am going to eat it, and normally resturants do not serve brown rice) (sometimes it is hard to get away from old habits like thinking that all carbs, complex or simple are evil...know what I mean???) drank water once I got home from work, and my boss told me she was not going to go to weight watchers and said I could have her compter do dad that calculates points and keeps them in order...now wouldn't you say that was a good score and nice on my boss's part???

Didn't get to exercise and then get wet in the pool ....It was very hot here...considering we had hard rain showers here last week. I heard rumers that it was 115 but I think it was 111. Today will be the same... I will have a meeting on Thursday with one of the trainers to talk about the machines and an exerceise program..I can get a fitness profile and they can tell me how much fat is on this old body which might be good, then I could do it in 6 months to see if I have improved.

Well I have prob bent your ear enough...Thanks for listening..

Kathy

Lin S
07-04-2001, 05:32 PM
Hi, Turtle Buddies,

Happy Independence Day!

Judy, I hope you get past that 200 pound mark without further sabotaging yourself. I think you have a great strategy planned. Great job on that pound!

Kathy, your newfound commitment to exercise is awesome! I don't envy you the heat. Where do you live that it gets so hot? I hope you're really being diligent about that water what with the heat and the exercise. I'd be too wilted to move much, so I admire your dedication.

I had a leader once who commented, when discussing special occasions, that we could have ten of them a year or ten days off or whatever it was. That really spoke to me because it made me think more carefully about what really constitutes a special occasion for me. I realized that I have fewer than ten days each year that I consider special enough to warrant more of an indulgence. Today isn't one of them, so we're celebrating, but not with fancy, rich food.

I'm marinating beef ribs to broil. (I'd rather BBQ, but we had to give up our barbecue because charcoal isn't allowed in our complex, only gas. And, as you all know, I cannot afford a new barbecue right now.) We're also having a salad, corn on the cob, garlic bread, and watermelon. I will most likely steam some frozen veggies, too. Our biggest splurge is on Martinelli's sparkling cider. For me, that's a splurge because I rarely drink anything but water.

I'm doing OK. I'm probably going to end up today either at the top of my range or 1 point over. That feels like a miracle, since it's PMS. I've been feeling a lot less like Mrs. Hyde and I think it's the calcium. I really hope so and I hope this isn't a fluke month because I would be so much more consistent with being OP and with losing weight if that Mrs. Hyde would go away and I could stay myself all month.

The really hard thing for me right now is that my new scale weighs almost ten pounds heavier than my old one. The stupid number makes me feel like I'm going on about the fourth or fifth time around for these same ten pounds. I know, in my head, that it's not the same ten, but those numbers really can play head games with us, anyway. When I get back to the bottom of this decade on the scale, I'm giving myself a small treat like a paperback book or a new coffee mug!

Talk to you all later.

Happy turtlin'! :cool:

Lin

Kimmers
07-05-2001, 01:02 AM
Happy 4th everyone!

Thanks for all the congrats and good wishes - you're all so great. My boy was off on the big bird to Europe today and I've been having kind of a hard time this week. I know that he's going to have a great time (and so are we), but I'm going to miss him.

I've also been having a hard time WW-wise - since Saturday, I've had one 44-point day, two over 50 points (including today) and two in the low 30s. (My range is 29-34.) And we're not even in Canada yet! Not good at all - I planned on having the 44-point day, but the other two were the result of poor planning, and in the case of today, some emotional eating. I'm going to do my best to stay within points tomorrow and to not go overboard in Canada. I did write everything down, so I feel good about that. I haven't been getting a lot of formal exercise this week either, but I have been doing a lot of running around, so hopefully - who knows. I'll find out tomorrow and next Saturday.

Lin - don't let that scale bother you - you're doing awesome. Your 4th menu sounds delish. I need to remember what you said about special days - there always seems to be a reason to celebrate with food.

Kathy - Eating out is a real challenge for me, sounds like you did a good job. I don't know how you can stand that heat. If it gets up to 90 here, people start freaking out. Enjoy the gym - I'm happy you're finding what you need there.

Judy - mmmm fresh cherries - yum! We're stopping at a berry farm on our way home on Sunday where we can pick our own - there's nothing like it! I think your attitude about the magic number is right on - sometimes I find myself sabotaging my efforts if I get too focused on the numbers, too.

Lauren - your new outfit is really pretty! How exciting to get something you've been wanting for so long. Great job getting back OP.

Everyone - enjoy the rest of the week and you've inspired me to try harder for the rest of my week.

Thanks,
Kimmers
332/287(hopefully that won't change too much tomorrow)/269 2nd 10% goal

Lauren H
07-05-2001, 12:29 PM
Hi, everyone. Sounds like a bunch of you really planned ahead for the Fourth -- way to go.

I was about a point over yesterday, and the day before; the days before that, I ate high but stayed within my points. I'm learning that I don't lose when I do this. So today I'm going to aim a bit lower. I really want to mix it up a bit -- eat high, then low, then high. I have a hard time eating low in my points these days (the bottom of my range is 24, which I almost never hit).

Lin, I would feel pretty demoralized about the new scale, too. I know it's just a number, etc., but still. When I got my new scale, it was five pounds heavier than my old one, and that was tough enough. I remember one occasion where I was so discouraged about my slow weight loss, I actually dug out the old scale and weighed myself on it, just to see that lower number! Mind games, but it made me laugh.

Judy, you're doing great. You got my mouth watering over those cherries! Michigan is a major cherry-producing state, and they're in season now. I have some in the fridge at work, in fact.

Harley, yeah, it can be tough getting over the "good food/bad food" hurdle. Sounds like you're getting there, though.

Kimmers, are you getting extra exercise to cope with the added eating? That can help. Plus the exercise can help with the stress or emotional upheaval. I'm preaching to myself here, since I've only worked out once this week -- which might be why I'm eating more! Hmmm ...

--Lauren

Lin S
07-05-2001, 03:13 PM
Hi, Turtles,

Kimmers, I understand completely about the double-edged feelings when your almost or just grownup kids aren't there. You miss all their good points and not their annoying ones. "They move out just when they start to really get to be interesting people" is a wry old saying on the subject. My oldest has been staying for a few days each week with friends in San Jose since we moved to Salinas. But he's going to be gone for two weeks this time, since he's housesitting. Then, it will only be a week or so after he comes back and he'll be moving to southern California. He's not expecting to come back after that--except, as he says, to visit his cat (who misses him dreadfully when he's not here). It's the hardest part of parenting, I think, letting them go. Good luck with dealing with this. I know you can stick to your plan.

Lauren, maybe you should try eating one point lower than you have been for a few days or a week. Then one point lower than that until you're eating mostly where you want to eat. If you go in steps, it should be easier, I think.

You are in a difficult situation. I may be way off base, but this is something to think about. It's can be hard enough to eat within the range we're allowed, but when you have to set your range lower because you don't lose at the higher level, your emotions may feel cheated. We all feel that it's bad enough that we have to plan what we eat and follow a specific program. But then, to find out that your body wants less than other people your size in order to lose weight, well, that feels like you're cheated even more. That may make it harder, from an emotional standpoint, to stick with the lower number of points you've discovered you need in order to be successful.

I had a revelation about this today. I really don't want to have to cut my points down very much. I'm eating well and having some points left over for special foods now and then. It seems as though it was the special ones that got cut when I lowered my points in the past because I don't want to cut the foods that are necessary for my health. I know that exercise will allow me to eat a bit more. But I do need to deal with this issue as time goes on. I may use the method I suggested to you and go down one point at a time, if my weight loss stalls.

I'm doing OK. I'm sticking pretty close to the high end of my range. Today, though, I got super hungry fairly soon after breakfast. It's PMS. What I wanted was more breakfast and what I ate was oatmeal and a banana. I figure it must be a real need for food, since I wasn't craving salty foods or chocolate. So, I'm choosing real food, writing it down, and counting the points. I've weighed myself a couple of times this week (which I normally don't do) to test my new scale. I'm staying the same, so I figure I must need the extra food. (It's only been a point or two each day.)

Hope you all are doing well.

Happy turtlin'! :)

Lin

harley
07-06-2001, 03:01 AM
Hi Fellow turtles...I have an opps to confess!!! I had to weigh 2 days early, as I can not attend the sat day meeting anymore, and I gained 1 lb...I am so upset, but I know it was either water gain, or 4th of July gain...We had a little get tog with dd and sil and we had some great grub..I didn't want to think about points or anything...and I had 2 1/2 beers...

I will try not to beat myself up over this...but I will try to learn from it..I don't like gains...I really hate them...I realize I have to keep on top of this 100 %..no slacking...If I want slack I should plan for slack right??? Not just eat...Plan..

I went to the store tonight and I got some non fat cottage cheese, some egg beaters substitue, and some turkey sausages..I wante to start eating more protein for breakfast. I will keep my points diligently, and I will make that 1 lb disapear.

bye for now..

Kathy

harley
07-07-2001, 09:57 AM
Hi Turtles...Just wanted to tell you things are going good again. I ate pretty good yesterday. I discovered Morning star vegie patties..1 pattie, 1 pt...I did the calculations 10 just to make sure I was not doing it wrong.. when I went to the store after my meeting...I took my slide ruler and started figuring out points of lots of things and since I heard the leader talking to the knew ones, she said the women are basically carb eaters, and not protein eaters, and if they would eat more protein then the program will work better. After listening to that I figured I would try to add protein to the breakfast and then maybe I wouldn't not be so hungry at 10:00 and lose too...

I got some egg beaters...1/2 cup equals 2 pts...Then I got some healthy lean turkey sausage that is 4 pts for 1 link..they are ok but won't buy them again.

I will try to drink my water at work. And I have until 8:00 to get to the gym..Hoping to start a program today!!!

Hope to hear from you guys andhope you have a good Saturday..

kathy

Lauren H
07-07-2001, 10:26 PM
Glad things are going better now, Harley. You'll get over that gain in no time.

I'm up two pounds this week. I've been tracking, but that's about all I can say for myself. I'm eating a tad too much, exercising too little. Today I finally decided what I was going to do to shake things up -- I signed up for six months of Weight Watchers meetings. I somewhat surprised myself by doing that. (I did it online; haven't been to a meeting yet.) But it makes sense to me right now. I lost weight best when I attended meetings. In any case, I'd like to get the new materials.

So I'm hoping this will be the new leaf I need right now.

Oh, my new outfit arrived today. Good news and bad news: the good news is that I could actually wear the outfit. This surprised me, since it's not even a plus size. The bad news is that it doesn't look as good as it did in the catalog, and I've decided to send it back. Too expensive to not look absolutely terrific.

--Lauren
274/220/down

Itryharder
07-08-2001, 11:35 AM
Kathy,
Glad things are going better for you. I like the Boca breakfast links. They use soy protein and are fewer points than the turkey sausages you tried. I know more protein keeps me feeling full for a longer time than carbs. You are really working this program, so keep on doing the things that work for you and you'll be successful.
Lauren,
I think it's great news that you could wear the catalog outfit even though it's not a plus size. That's great news. As far as sending it back, I'm with you. If something isn't fabulous, I don't want to pay a lot for it. Good luck with the meetings. I hope they give you what you are looking for. Sometimes just a change of pace gives us the boost we are hoping for. Good luck.
Everybody,
I've been really busy. Fourth of July was ok food wise, but not as great as I planned. Then I had another day that wasn't spiffy, so this is a mixed bag kind of week. Thank goodness I have gotten over eating to punish myself. I am staying off the scale and that helps. Now I *must* get back on the treadmill. Using my expanded journal (just a spiral notebook with more room to write) helps a lot. My kids are here this weekend and they're lots of fun. My dh and I are very fortunate.
Feel well, be happy. Let's all do the best we can with each day.
My sister arrives for a vacation with us in a couple of days. She loves NY food, so this can present a problem for me. I've got to figure out how she can have the food she craves and not gain weight by my eating the same. This will take a lot of thought.
Judy
234/thinner;)

Lin S
07-08-2001, 05:49 PM
Hi, Turtles,

Kathy, your commitment to the program will easily take care of that pound.

Lauren, good luck with your WW meetings. I hope your leader turns out to be terrific! It's great that the outfit fit, but I'd send it back, too. It's so disappointing when something comes from a catalog and it doesn't look as good as the picture! I've had that experience, too.

Judy, I had a thought, but I don't know how valuable it is. You'll have to judge that for yourself. Your sister's visit to NY is special for her. She doesn't get to eat NY food much, so for her it's a treat. You live there. You can choose to eat these foods whenever you choose to save up the points. What's special about this visit for you is sharing it with your sister. Maybe you can save up some points for your absolute favorites of the food she loves and choose simpler foods like salads, grilled fish, etc. for the rest of the meals. Or, if she's willing, have a taste of what she's having and eat salads, soups, that wonderful grilled fish, etc. for your own meals. Good luck!

Kathy, I wonder where your leader got the information about women, carbs and protein. I also wonder what she means by women eating carbs and what protein she thinks we should substitute for carbs. Also, I wonder what balance of the food groups overall she is thinking about. And I wonder whether it's really correct that in order to lose weight we should go against what our bodies are telling us we need.

I guess I've been around the block with every "diet fad" since I was a child and I'm closer to 50 than I'd like to admit. One thing I've learned is that there are no magic food combinations that will cause anyone to lose weight. There are food combinations that are better for your health, but losing weight is a matter of burning up calories and eating just a bit less food than you need to fuel that energy level, forcing your body to burn up its fat stores. It's a delicate balance becasuse if you eat too much less, it hangs onto the fat in case it's a famine and uses up muscle tissue instead.

The problem with substituting animal protein, which is what most people automatically think of when they hear the word "protein" for carbohydrates in your diet is that you increase your saturated fat intake, which increases your risk of heart disease, etc. And the carbs most people think of when they say "carbs" are the refined ones.

Before substituting animal protein, including dairy products, for carbohydates, check out what kind of carbs you're eating. If you regularly eat white bread, white rice, and sweets made from refined flour, try switiching to whole grain products for at least half of your carb points. The whole grains usually are about 1 point more than the refined choices, so you may find that you're choosing a slightly smaller serving size. But they are more filling, so I find that I couldn't eat that large serving, anyway. They add fiber to your diet, which is crucial to weight loss and to a healthy body. For breakfast, I find that eggs and sausage is way too heavy in the morning for my taste, even if it's a light turkey sausage. One egg and some high fiber toast or oatmeal made with skim milk works better for me and keeps me full longer. Also, try beans, split peas, and lentils. You can increase your protein that way without adding saturated fat to your diet. Remember that potatoes and many other veggies are also complex carbs. A baked potato with some beans, veggies, and a simple, lowfat sauce, makes a great low point filling meal.

If substituting different carbs doesn't help, take the quizzes in "The Right Mix". If you find that your body needs the higher concentration of protein, stick to the point numbers in the booklet. You can do serious damage to your health by overdoing the protein, especially animal protein. The super high protein, super low or no carb diets are a prescription for a heart attack. They cause other health problems, too, if they're used for a very long time.

The important thing is to choose an overall balance of foods that includes enough of all types of foods we need to be healthy. I think the WW booklets do a great job of educating us in what we need to be healthy, but I also think many people don't read them or use them enough.

I hope you realize that my goal here is just to give you something to think about. Maybe even to research a little. WW leaders and folks on the Internet and friends and relatives (and me, too) aren't usually trained nutritionists, registered dieticians, or MD's. We just pass along the best of what we've learned. The problem is that much of what people pass on came from books and articles written by people with an agenda--usually products to sell. Much of the so-called research isn't done using good double-blind research methods. That's why I tend to be a skeptic. I tend to disbelieve what I hear until I've researched it a little more. That's why I wondered about the details of what your leader said. I've been noticing lately that many, many, people seem to have an automatic reaction these days--want to lose weight? Ditch the carbs and eat lots of protein. But I've researched that subject and I know it's not a healthy diet and I don't want anyone to damage their health in an attempt to get thin, so I thought I'd share my thoughts about this with you all, for what they're worth.

Happy turtlin'! :D

Lin

Lauren H
07-08-2001, 09:51 PM
Judy, I hear you about problems with guests. That's mostly how I gained my recent 9 pounds. We had two sets of guests for almost 3 weeks, and they ate like they were on vacation (which they were) -- and I did too! Just think to yourself -- do you *really* want to see that food show up on the scale? Is [fill in food here] really worth seeing the scale go up and having to fight to get those pounds off again?

Lin and Kathy, regarding carbs vs. protein ... I read something interesting in a cat magazine yesterday. It was on feline diabetes, and it said that fatter cats tend to develop diabetes more often. Not a surprise. But it also said that most cats who got fatter and developed diabetes ate almost solely dry food. The dry food is higher in carbohydrates than the canned food, and the article said that cats gain more weight on the higher carbs.

I love carbs. Giving them up -- or even cutting them down to tiny levels -- will never work for me. I know this. But I also know that I lose better when I cut back on them and eat more protein. Certainly the less refined carbs are better in every way than the refined variety, but even eating the less refined carbs slows or even reverses my weight loss. Lent is a great example of this. (For those new to the group, during Lent we stop eating all animal products and get our proteins solely from stuff like beans and soy. I have never yet lost weight during Lent, even staying within points.)

I'm no advocate of the all-fiber-no-carbs diets. I've done them, and I felt rotten on them. And who can eat like that forever? For me, the really hard thing is to try to find and achieve a healthy balance. That does NOT mean just eating whatever my body craves, I'm finding, because I seriously crave sugar and carbs, often to the exclusion of everything else. I suspect that because diabetes runs in my family, I probably have a screwed up gene somewhere that doesn't process sugar and carbs properly.

So ... part of my process over the coming six months is going to be forcing myself to cut back on the beloved carbs and incorporate more vegetables. (I think I get enough protein.) The trick is going to be making sure I don't start feeling like I'm on a diet, because that's a recipe for disaster for me. Actually, the trick will be doing it at all.

--Lauren

Lin S
07-09-2001, 03:01 PM
Hi, Turtles,

This thread is getting way too long! See you all on number 32!

Happy turtlin'! :)

Lin