WW Clubs and Groups - Turtle Club # 29

Hi, Turtle Buddies,

Here it is - my "official" version of the fable:

The Hare and the Tortoise

A hare met a tortoise one day and made fun of him for the slow and clumsy way in which he walked.

The tortoise laughed and said, "I will run a race with you any time that you choose."

"Very well," replied the hare, "we will start at once."

The tortoise immediately set off in his slow and steady way without waiting a moment or looking back. The hare, on the other hand, treated the matter as a joke and decided to take a little nap before starting, for she thought that it would be an easy matter to overtake her rival.

The tortoise plodded on, and meanwhile the hare overslept herself, with the result that she arrived at the winning-post only to see that the tortoise had got in before her.

Moral: Slow and steady wins the race.

This comes from a book handed down from my grandmother to my mother to me. The book is so old it doesn't have a copyright date or an author/editor's credit.

That fable has been the motivation for us turtles for about two years. Someone on the ancient WW forum mentioned the fable and I discovered it was very motivational for me. I talked about it in posts and other people said that the tortoise philosophy worked for them, too. So, I started a thread for us turtle types.

We work toward accepting that our bodies have a natural speed of weight loss when we choose to live a healthy life, instead of "going on a diet". Many of us have experienced "the diets" as go on/lose weight-- go off/ gain the weight plus more back.

We choose to perservere with each choice we make throughout the day. We believe that choosing to be slow, steady turtles helps us to learn the skills we need to learn in order to not only lose the weight, but keep it off and become the healthiest people we can be.

So, welcome to all who realize that losing and maintaining a weight loss is a lifestyle change. And who want support as we all learn the skills we need to successfully make the changes that will allow us to reach our goals.

Happy turtlin', everyone! :D

Lin

Hi, all. Work has really gotten busy and should remain that way for a while. Between that and having company at home, I won't be checking in as often as I'd like. Just so you know.

Lin, thanks so much for the creme brulee recipe! I'll look forward to trying that. I'd love to get one of those torches, but only if it really looks like something I'd use. I'll try the broiler first.

I also appreciate the reminder to make this journey a top priority, a non-negotiable, like going to work. Lately I've been trying to do that with just one thing -- exercise. I have to exercise at least 3 times a week. It's the one thing I'm holding onto at the moment. Once the family is gone, I plan to start again and lose weight instead of just maintain (or gain!).

Judy, I appreciate the kind asbestos thoughts. You're right; it's the disturbance of asbestos that causes the problems. Unfortunately, while I was working there, they decided to replace all the asbestos roofs with tin ones. Nice idea, except that they RIPPED the asbestos roofs off. The dust was so bad that we were all coughing as we tried to do our jobs. I finally refused to show up at the office (which was near the construction site) until they were finished; I even took a vacation just to get away from it. But I did breathe that dust for maybe a week. :( Well, not much use worrying about it now.

--Lauren

Hi, Turtles,

I copied all of your messages of the past couple of days. They are so inspirational.

Lauren, you don't have to worry about an asbestos wall. My dh knows about that stuff from his work. He says that it's only a problem if you're breathing asbestos dust, so, as long as the wall wasn't crumbling or damaged, you should be OK. Plus, it's really long-term exposure that's the problem. My brother worked on cars for over 20 years. I think your commitment to exercise is probably the best thing you can do right now. I hope that you can keep it top priority while your job is busy. Aren't you glad, though, that it is busy? Not as many worries about another layoff? I hope that's true.

Mousie, your Yoda quote is one of my favorites. I've noticed over the past three or four years of posting on forums that the most successful people, no matter what their goals, don't often talk about trying. They talk about doing. I'm so glad to hear that things clicked with you the past couple of days.

Judy, my brother works near Stanford University. He is thinking about going there for his second opinion. There is also a clinic connected to the Mayo Clinic near his work. So he does have options. Glad to hear your resolve is back. Keep going.

The site we mentioned is:

http://www.dottisweightlosszone.com

I like Dotti's site, but I hope this one is able to continue. I wish I could help, but all I can do is to pray that they will be able to continue. And not complain about the ads! ;)

My last couple of days have been OK. I did get my notebook done and I used it. I have been closer to completely OP than the past couple of weeks. I'm definitely seeing those baby steps working. I drank all of the water. I took my calcium and vitamins. I wrote down my food and points. I was closer to my point range than I have been.

I also have been getting back to my mini meals. Not doing mini meals seems to be as much of a problem for me as not writing things down. So, I'm making that a priority. It's harder for me to do it when Paul is home because we eat together, so I'm not always as aware of whether or not I'm hungry as I am when I'm alone. Also, I tend to eat more when I eat with my family, so I don't have the points available for the mini meal. The thing is that it's not them. They don't care or notice what I eat or don't eat. It's me. I'll get that worked out. I must, since he's apparently going to be home for a while.

Today's plan is to write my food and points down again. Keep up with my water. Do mini meals. Get in my calcium and vitamin. Eat my fruits and veggies, which will be easier since I went to the store and bought some more. We were almost out. And do some exercise.

Happy turtlin'! :D

Lin

Thanks for starting a new thread, Lin.

Mini meals don't work for me. I've tried them, and always thought I was some sort of a freak because I just couldn't make it work. It was supposed to be the ideal way to eat, the answer to everyone's struggles, but I just couldn't make it work. This last winter I read an article in Prevention, though, that was written by the editor. She basically said that mini meals don't work for her, either, because she just can't control them. If you don't have a problem with blood sugar, if you don't really feel the effects of being low, and if you can have regular "big" meals, there's no harm in just doing the 3-meals-a-day thing. What liberation! I went back to doing 3 meals a day--3 good meals, not mini meals--and rarely having snacks. I'm so much more comfortable eating now! My issue is and has always been portion size, so I'm dealing with that, but when I don't have to think about what I'm eating next constantly throughout the day I can forget about it, and not be so obsessed. Of course, that's just how my mind works. If mini meals works, then more power to you!

I have to say again, Lin, thanks for being my 'click'. What I eat (eating healthfully) is no longer an optional thing. I don't have a choice. I just DO eat healthfully. I know it's early (3 days) and I sound like a zealot, but I really feel positive about this. It's always been like this with exercise. Exercise is just something I DO. I get up at 5:30 in the morning now to go to the gym for an hour, before work and school. In Minnesota (in the middle of winter!) I would get up at 4:30 to make it to the gym before work. It's just something I DO. And how I eat is that way too. I'm a vegetarian, no questions asked. I just AM. So why shouldn't I make other decisive decisions about my food? I've been walking around repeating "not optional" and "non negotiable" to myself when I'm tempted (as I was by doughnuts at class this morning) and it gives me the strength to walk away. THANK YOU!

Great posts, guys. Let's keep this winning attitude going. Oh yes, I have to eat properly because that's what I *do*.
Judy,

234/?/thinner:smug:

You also have to post because that's what you *do*, right, Judy? ;) I know what you mean, c'mon let's just DO this! (So that's what the Nike campaign was about!)

It's 20 til 6 (am) and I'm off to the gym. Workout then yoga, then DH and I are going kite flying and I'm going blading at the same park. Woohoo, later! :)

About that other site, in case this one goes belly up ...

At Dotti's (http://www.dottisweightlosszone.com), there's a group called "Unhurried Success." That's where I think the Turtles should migrate to in case the unthinkable happens and this site doesn't make it. (3 Fat Chicks is due to run out of money the end of August.)

There's also another, much quieter site that's new. It's a spinoff from Dotti's. It's called "Lighten Up," and it's at http://pub70.************/blightenup78347. They have a forum called "The Scenic Route," which is where I'd look for the Turtles.

Let's hope it doesn't happen, but in case it does ...

My eating is lousy today already, and it's only 10:33. :( Well, each minute of each day is a new beginning, right?

--Lauren

Hi, Turtles,

Mousie, I think everyone's body is a bit different. That's why this program works so much better than any other weight loss program, including many of WW's own earlier diets. It's flexible enough that we all can figure out what works best and do that.

My natural inclination is to do three meals. I was raised that way. But when I eat that way now, I tend to eat portions that are too large because I get too hungry. Traditional snacks don't seem to stave off that overly hungry feeling, so I eat too much between meals. And going for such a long time between meals (4-6 hours) makes me feel dizzy and headachy, even if I snack. So, I decided to give the mini meals a chance and it made a huge difference in my life. The point? We are different people with different needs. And our bodies react differently to the same amount of food. Your body is happier if you eat less frequently than my body is. That's not a bad thing. There is no one way to do this.

I get frustrated when people post asking what other people do, looking for the magic answer to their weight loss. Usually they're looking for a faster way to take the weight off. But there isn't a magic answer. Doing what works for someone else can sometimes work for us, and sometimes it only leads to frustration because our body doesn't respond to their methods the same way their body does. We can only find what works for our own body and do that.

I love the way you condensed my thoughts into a short statement. "That's just what I do." That's exactly what I'm aiming for in my life.

You're posting all of my favorite quotes. I'm not especially fond of Nike's business practices or their way overpriced shoes (that don't fit my feet because they only make medium width shoes), but their advertising campaign slogan is a perfect slogan for reaching any goal that we set for ourselves. "Just do it."

Lauren, I'm sorry that you're still struggling with food right now. Write it down and move past it. You will get this back under control because you want to. I know how frustrating this is because I've been struggling with it, too. For me, something clicked and I'm doing better. The click will come for you, too.

I, too, hope that this thread doesn't go under. I'm considering starting one of my own, if it does. It's a matter of deciding whether or not I want to do the maintenance once it's up. I tend to love the creation process, but loathe the routine maintenance. On the other hand, maybe we need our own place. What do you all think?

I'm back OP today. I was 9 points over max the day before yesterday when I started using my new notebook. Yesterday I was only 4 points over. I thought I was OK and splurged on 2 points, then realized I had forgotten to write down my soup at dinner. Oh, well. It's back going the right direction. As for the rest--my water is fine, I got in the calcium and vitamin, I ate all of my fruits and veggies, and made very healthy choices.

I went to the store and stocked up on some of my favorite things that I had run out of. I decided that since the only low-point hot dogs that I like aren't available here, I would spend my money on Gardenburgers, which I like better than hot dogs anyway. I needed a stash of something I could prepare quickly when things get overwhelming around here.

Although I prefer to bake my own bread, I haven't been able to lately. So, I grabbed a loaf of bread off the shelf, not realizing it was a light bread. I have a very small selection of lowfat products I enjoy. Light bread hasn't been on the list until I tried this bread. It's made by Orowheat. I don't know how widely available across the country this brand is. The types of breads from them that I've found and liked are potato, 9-grain, and country oat breads. 2 slices are 1 point. I recommend them for those of you who like carbs, but don't want to spend a lot of points on them.

Happy turtlin'!

Lin

Lin, I DO hope you didn't read me as attacking you for doing mini meals! Goodness, I never meant it that way. Like I said, if it works for you, more power to you. I was just commenting that it doesn't seem to work for me*, and I'm more comfortable NOT snacking. All bodies are different, as you said, and mine just doesn't do well with constant intake. Dunno why, but that's the magic of bodies I guess.

I really hope you weren't offended, Lin, I wasn't attacking your method! If it works for you and your body, by all means keep doing it!

Speaking if Nike, this is an old Nike ad, it only ran once, I think:

A woman is often measured by the things she cannot control.
She is measured by the way her body curves or doesn't curve,
By where she is flat or straight or round.
She is measured by 36-24-36 and inches and ages and numbers,
By all the otside things that don't ever add up to who she
is on the inside.
And so if a woman is to be measured, let her be measured by
the things she can control, by who she is and who she is
trying to become. Because as every woman knows,
Measurements are only statistics.
And statistics lie.


I would use that as my sig, but it's too long. Instead I have it in my profile elsewhere, and it's the most valuable quote I know. "Statistics lie" was my mantra at the gym for a very long time. Our numbers are NOT who we are. We may be trying to change one or two of them, and we may put energy into that, but I try to remember not to let them define me wholly. Yes I am a WW. I'm a personal trainer. I do several sports and yes I watch what I eat. I try, though, to remember that I'm more than that. I'm a new wife and a daughter and a good friend and an auntie, and those things are just as important as my numbers. I try to remember that.

Excellent, excellent points to remember, Mousie. Thank you. I didn't see that ad (not surprising, since I rarely watch TV, and you said it only ran once anyway); thanks for posting the script. Words to live by.

That's my one and only problem with WW -- the focus on the numbers. I recognize that they have to have some barometer by which to measure when you're ready to no longer pay them money, but I think it causes way too much neurosing over the scale.

As for mini-meals vs. 3 squares, I always thought I was a mini-meal kinda gal. I'm coming to see, though, that I actually control my eating better if I'm not faced with the temptation of doing it so often. I think what I actually am is a 3-squares-with-a-couple-smaller-snacks kinda gal (a snack being, say, a piece of fruit or some popcorn). I suspect that this is one reason I did so well on vacation. I ate three meals a day, and at least one of those meals was usually small. The other one or two were darn good sized and extremely tasty. They were something to really look forward to, which made dealing with some hunger pangs doable.

If I had low blood sugar or high blood sugar or whatever, I would probably have more problems with this approach. I do find I'll get crabby as mealtime approaches, but a piece of fruit or even a half a piece usually does the trick fine.

I'll get my eating back to where it ought to be soon. I'm actually looking forward to it. I've set a date -- next Tuesday (my mom leaves then). And I'm trying not to go way overboard until then.

--Lauren

Hi,

Will the fourth time be the charm? My browser has crashed three times while I've tried to write this post!

Isn't it ironic that we women automatically think that we've done something wrong? Mousie, it never occurred to me that you might be attacking me! I thought I had implied that everyone ought to be doing WW the way I do, including mini meals. I was merely attempting to clarify my feeling that we all must approach this program as individuals and find what works best for each of us.

The latest WW programs are the first to truly give us the freedom to do that. For a contrast, check out:
www.3fatchicks.com/forum/showthread.php?s=&threadid=6344
Read the text file of the WW program crica 1970.

That was the first WW program I ever followed. I copied it to use as a reality check when I get tempted to slip off program, rather than plan what I want and stay OP. It was a disaster and I blamed myself for not being disciplined enough to follow this "lifestyle" that would allow me to get thin and be thin forever. :lol:

I'm so grateful for the newest program because it really is a doable lifestyle. Even if I slip back into old habits, I don't dread getting back OP. I look forward to it because I feel so much better when I eat that way. I usually get back OP and wonder why in the world I ever went off!

We're really cookin' this week. I've copied and pasted all of your posts to my inspirational file. Mousie, I really loved your quote!

Lauren, I'm so glad you're finally optimistic about the program again. It seems as though you've been feeling a little guilty about not being perfectly OP lately. But you ought to be congratulating yourself. You've done a great job with a difficult situation.

Yesterday I accomplished all of my goals. I was very strict about my mini meals and I banked a few points. I've noticed that I never bank points and more often overeat when I eat three meals and snacks. I got all of my calcium and vitamin in. I ate more than five servings of fruits and veggies. I drank all of my water.

Today, I want to repeat my accomplishments, with one exception. We splurged on a (cheap!) fast food breakfast. I chose well and will be fine with points. But I had to skip my midmorning mini meal in order to stay in my point range. I need to figure out a better choice or make sure I have points banked that I'm not saving for something else.

I learned that the reason I overeat when I do three meals is that even if my regular meal is large, I still get hungry 2-3 hours later. I don't know why. Maybe my digestive system is super efficient or something. But this shows me that I need to make sure I have the points available to eat as frequently as I need to.

I also tend to overeat if I don't eat a nutritious meal when I get hungry. The past couple of weeks have been difficult, but taught me that lesson. I slipped back into eating three meals and snacks that consisted of snack-type foods. And I paid for it by gaining a little weight back and feeling lousy. I learned that I must stick with nutritious meals like soup and crackers, oatmeal or milk or yogurt and fruit, an egg and toast, a half sandwich and a salad, etc. I can do sweets and chips and that stuff if I save the points and plan them as part of a meal. The hard part is keeping food prepared so I'm not cooking all day! I'm getting the hang of it. I have so much more energy and I feel healthier overall when I eat this way so I think it's worth the extra effort. So, that's my goal for the rest of the day and on into tomorrow.

I hope all of you turtles are doing OK. I hope some of you who haven't posted in a while or who haven't posted at all, yet, will say, "Hi!"

Happy turtlin'! :cool:

Lin

Hi All,
I'll be back at my regular WW meeting today after skipping last week and not weighing in my regular meeting for two weeks prior to that. Last week I was all set to face the music, but had a family stressor I had to deal with. Today I weighed myself at home and it's not good (up about 5 pounds this month), but I had a great day yesterday and a good day today. I think right now I need more points. I think I'll go back to the 123 Success and Winning Points allotment but incorporate the activity to earn the higher points. That's my plan and now I'll *do* it. LOL.
I am going to do it because it's the direction I need to go in.
This board is really inspiring. You all have a lot going on in your lives right now that are very stressful. It's great to see that you're working program through all the tough times. I'm on the wagon and intend to hang on for dear life.
I joined WW originally when we had to eat fish and liver a certain number of times a week. Then I tried the selections program, but this program didn't allow me to feel successful. If I wanted an extra fruit, I felt as though I was off program. This new WW approach with points is so dignified and mature. I really like it. I would just like to lose about 30 pounds a week and eat 40-50 points a day. If anyone figures out how to do that, let me know. So, I'm chiming in with the slo turtles and doing it today. I'm journaling, my water is right on target, and I'm weighing in and staying at my meeting.
Good luck to all of you and to all of us!
234/215/thinner

Judy
:cool:

Hi turtle buds!

Just wanted to check in - I've been offline for quite a while. Must have been burned out on computers after finishing my classwork. All those late nights were worth it, though - got an A. I'm on one all day at work, but it's been pretty busy around here lately. Hope everyone is doing well - I'm printing the threads to read on my way home tonight.

We had a wonderful vacation in Florida and two days after I came back, I was on the plane to Connecticut for a work training session. All the traveling caught up with me, though, and I came down with a killer double ear infection and a bladder infection - Aaack! I'm finally feeling better after a couple of weeks of antibiotics.

I'm doing OK weight-wise - I didn't journal in Florida but got lots of exercise and tried my best to eat sensibly. I did get a little more indulgent every day, though, so it's good that I got back on track when I did. I only gained a pound down there. In Connecticut, I had no control over what we were served, but did OK for the most part. I lost the pound I'd gained and another two while I was there. (Being sick might have helped.)

Last Saturday I lost another 4.5 and got my 10% keychain - very exciting. I've been working hard, trying to stay within points and I've been riding my bike more often and longer. I still go over points at least one day a week, and don't always make up for it by banking points, but it seems to be working out OK. I'm in a new range now, and even though the difference is only a point, it's freaking me out. Must be a psychological thing - I can't stand to have my food taken away from me!

Good luck everyone,
Kimmers
332/295.5/269 (next 10% goal)

Kimmers,
Congratulations on such a great accomplishment. Being on vacation and then visiting relatives and still staying with program doing it your way. And then reaching your 10% difference! You're doing great. I know what you mean about food being taken away. I think that's what's been bothering me for a long time now. If it's just one point, think about giving yourself that point once in a while to keep your head straight and see what happens.
I am giving myself the extra 2 points I lost in Jan. and making my exercise part of my program.
Everybody--gotta run to work, but I'm thinking of you all.
Judy

234/211/thinner;)

Hi Kimmers, VERY long time no see! Nice to hear you're doing so well.

Lin, I guess we never learned (were never taught?) that stating an opinion is NOT attacking another person. I've noticed that I often try to couch my opinion behind "Well I don't know but it seems to be that sometimes maybe" instead of just stating it. I started to notice this because of my husband--he just states his opinions flat-out, and makes me just state mine outright, too.

Weigh-in this evening, first weigh in since what I consider "Lin's Click". On my scale at home I've dropped 4.5 pounds! I guess just DOING it, not trying to play games with numbers, just getting on and doing it as it's written, is really the key. Who woulda thunk it? :rolleyes: I'll let you know what the "official" scale says tonight!

Hi, Turtles,

Kimmers, we're glad to hear from you. Congrats on that 'A'! Great job through all your traveling, etc. to do so well. And a super congrats on reaching that 10%! :cool:

Judy, I've found that the best way to deal with the scale is to pick one and use only that one. Since you're going to meetings, weigh in at WW. If you can't bring yourself to toss it, hide your home scale. The reason I recommend this is that different scales weigh differently and those differences can make us crazy. Up on one scale, but down on the next. Or the numbers are different and we can't figure out which one to go by.

I use the 123 Success points, too. When I calculate my activity points (using the Winning Points slider because I like that part of WP.), I subtract two from the total to account for the two points of activity built into 123 Success.

Sounds like you were on the 1970's programs, too. I agree that WWs new approach is much more mature. I used to complain that I felt like a child and I wanted to make more of my own decisions. I never got used to things like not being allowed to eat eggs at dinnertime. Breakfast for dinner is one of my family's favorites. It was all of those ridiculous rules that didn't work for me. Your body doesn't care when you eat your healthy foods, just whether you make healthy choices when you eat. I guess I knew myself better than WW did because when they gave me the control over my choices, I became successful for the first time in my life.

Mousie, I know what you mean about women tending to couch their opinions in qualifying phrases rather than stating them outright. I tend to just blurt out what I think. I get away with it more now that I'm not a young thing. I guess people are more willing to accept forthright opinions from middle-aged moms than from single chicks! :rolleyes:

Super congrats to you on your 4.5 pound loss! Maybe your body was just retaining a bit of water and that's why you plateaued. It's a common thing with people who exercise a lot.

I've been OP for three days in a row. It's easy sometimes and hard at other times. It mostly depends on how down I'm feeling about my life situation. Things are pretty much the same. No responses to any of the resumes yet. I haven't heard anything about my brother's condiditon, either. Today is Chris's last day of school. Despite our financial situation, we're going to take him out to dinner to celebrate. We'll just have to choose an inexpensive place to go.

Anyway, I'm posting my goal for the day for accountability. I want to repeat what I did yesterday. You all can read yesterday's post, if you want to know what that was. Basically, just doin' it.

Happy turtlin'! :D

Lin

Wow - lots going on here in turtle heaven. ;)
Thanks for the welcome back, everyone.

Let's all hope we don't have to move - I really like 3FC and I think their board is very well designed and reliable. I just sent them $10 over Amazon.com - hopefully more people will do the same. 3FC could be a subscription service - I would join!

Lin - have a great time out to dinner to celebrate. I'm so sorry to hear of all your unfortunate news. I'm amazed that you are staying OP - you should be very proud of yourself. I'm sending more good vibes your way - there's probably a line of shining turtles meeting up there in the sky over Salinas from all the support you've gotten from everyone here. Keep us posted. BTW, I really liked your post about WW as a job - very powerful words.

Lauren - hang in there and good luck on the job search. I know what you mean about eating less often to keep food out of your mind - that's what I try to do, too. If I'm working through lunch, through, one thing I do is eat half my lunch a little early and the rest a little later - just to spread out my food when I don't have enough time to eat properly.

The numbers game - I get tired of it, too, and I play it all the time! I find myself thinking - OK, if I've lost X amount of weight a week and continue to lose at that rate, I will weigh Y at... even though I know that is most likely not the case! I really am amazed at how quickly the weight is coming off this time but I can't count on that. I know that a big part of the reason is because I've got so much to lose and that it will slow down as I have less to lose.

I can only control what I do, not what the numbers say, and the payoff is feeling better, not a number.
(Will repeat to myself 10 times to get rid of mathy obsession.)

Judy - Good advice, I appreciate your help. So much of this program is a big head game with me (my fat head keeps getting in the way!) Good job with the exercise - I've always found that to be the defining factor in whether I stick to a program or maintain weight loss.

Mousie - Wow! Check you out! Sounds like you're living an idyllic life down there in So.Cal., but man are you busy! Good for you and congratulations on your wedding. You must be in great shape from all that exercise and I'm sure any weight you want to lose will go soon. What are you going to school for? I'm currently in a Graduate program for Interactive Multimedia Development. It's great to be learning new things, but the homework has taken A LOT of getting used to.

Enjoy the rest of your day,
Kimmers
332/295.5/269 (next 10% goal)
I'm trying to go 10% at a time, even though it's not an official WW thing. It's just a lot easier for me to think about. It's great to be in the 200's again! (Never thought I'd say that!)

Kimmers, I'm studying Physical Therapy. Working toward the BS to be admitted for the Masters, actually. I'll get there someday.

On the Official Scale last night, I lost 3.8 pounds! Woohoo, yay for taking the plan seriously and just buckling down and DOING it. My leader was really proud, and I was thrilled myself! Now to do it again this week! ;)

Hi, Turtles,

Mousie, congratulations on that official 3.8 lbs!. You're on a roll.

Kimmers, thanks so much for the good vibes. I need all of them I can get.

I've been staying OP and following my plan. When we go out to dinner for a special occasion, I don't count points. I eat sensibly and then for the rest of the day I set myself a point goal of the average number of points I usually eat from morning until dinner. So, I really enjoyed my meal and didn't overdo. I think that learning to eat well in situations in which you don't have access to nutritional information and have to estimte what you're eating is a part of what we need to do if we are to completely succeed, not only at losing, but at maintaining, too.

I'm in "I don't feel like doing anything" mode. I know that it's because I got news about my brother that is not totally great. They are going to operate on the his lung, but they aren't planning to operate on his brain. There are a couple of issues involved in that it's super risky surgery and it may give him a worse quality of life in the time he has left than if they leave it alone. (Because of where the tumor is on his brain.) I don't know what he's planning because I haven't talked with him again. But I do know that he's in major denial right now. This is especially hard for me because I can't afford to make trips to San Jose (gas prices, eating out, etc.) to visit him.

Plus, the job market in the tech field is really down right now. Unemployment is about doubled since last year. There was an article in the paper about some single guys in a homeless shelter. They were all college graduates who had six-figure incomes last year. We're sending out resumes, but if we don't hear anything at all after a month or two, we're going to have to break down and send them out to places that would require moving. I don't want to move again. Heck, I don't know where we'd get the money for movers, rent deposits, etc. I just sent about $1000 to pay our bills up to date. I hate seeing the money go away, but we need electricity, a roof over our heads, a phone, etc.

I'm managing to stay OP despite my mood. I'm thinking about going swimming again this afternoon. It helped me yesterday. I'll keep you posted.

Happy turtlin'! :cool:

Lin

Lin, I'm so sorry about your brother, and I wish there was something I could say to make it better. I know empty words are useless to you, but know that I'm thinking of you, and hoping for the best. We're always here for you, whether you need a rant, a hiding place, or a kind word.

The job market is not helping matters, is it? I'm in the same position with my husband--he's an excellent web designer/programmer, but the market is so tight that it's been 3 months and he's not found work. We're slightly hindered by the fact that he has no job history in the US, either, and his degree is a perfectly valid equivalent 4-year degree, but it's the British system so employers have looked at it and said "I'm sorry, we need someone with a degree." Our savings will run out soon, and I'll have to give up school (for the 5th time) and we'll have to figure out something. If it comes to the wire, we're talking about moving back to England. I don't want to, I want to finish school, but who ever said you got to do all you wanted to in life? But then, I'm borrowing trouble. Best not worry about it until it's actually a reality. What matters is that I'm with my husband. Have that, so we'll deal with the details later.

Did 25 minutes HARD work in the gym this morning, and bladed at the beach for 40 minutes (5.5 miles). Are we SUPPOSED to eat our exercise points, mandatory, or do we just have them if we want them? I've never quite understood that. I've had 26 points today (max is 31, my leader told me to jump to the next point range because of all the activity I do) so I'm cool for that, but am I supposed to eat exercise points?

Hi all. :wave: I had a moment in the house when it was quiet and I thought I'd check in on the thread even though it has been a long time.

Lin, I am so so sorry to hear about your brother. It really is a bad thing to have happened to him. I worry about my dad who worked with drywall which in the past had asbestoes in it. He has COPD and lots of breathing problems. I know that there is a class action lawsuit on people being exposed to asbestoes. I do not know anything about it in particular, but perhaps a search on google will turn up something. My dad was eligible to join it, but because he hates doctors, refused to do it, fearing that there would be compulsory physicals, etc. :( Your brother (or his representative) should get in touch with Social Security because he would definitely qualify for benefits. You can email me privately if you want any information. (We went through this with an uncle of mine in a somewhat similar situation.)

But Lin, I am so impressed with how you are handling things; I know this cannot be easy and how stressful the job search for you and Paul. I saw that same article you mentioned too.

Lauren, I hope your husband is doing well. That and the layoffs must have been scary for you.

Kimmers--congratulations on reaching your 10% goal! Yippee!

As for me, I have regained about 30#. I am not happy with it and I have been trying to keep in line. This week I lost 2.4# which pleased me because I am on a heavy duty antibiotic for a 3-month long sinus infection. OTOH, last week, I did walk 5 miles in the hot sun for a telethon. We are having work done on the house which required us to borrow $$ and both prospects make me nervous. My cats are all well and my puppy is still very puppy-ish still at 18-months. The job is going okay. I hope to get back at the gym in a day or two.

OBSERVATION: I didn't eat much for breakfast and lunch so we went to an all-you-can-eat Chinese buffet place. I was reasonably good...and I noticed that out of a large restaurant, perhaps only 5-8 people were NOT overweight. Everyone else had a big gut, big butt, severely overweight, etc. It was scary and I resolved not to eat there (or any other buffet) again. Obviously the skinny people have figured out the solution...don't eat at all you can eat buffets. ;)

Anyway, that's the news from Virginia.

Lori W.;) ;)

Hi, Turtle Buddies,

Welcome back, Lori. I've been thinking about you a lot lately, wondering how you're doing. Thank you for the info for my brother. He's in super denial right now, but I'll pass it along anyway.

I'm so glad to hear that your new job is going well. I think that you are doing well to get back off that 2.4#. Maybe some baby steps can help with starting you back on the journey to lose some more. And, keep reading and posting. Even when I wasn't following WW very closely, reading this thread every day and posting regularly, helped me to keep thinking about my goal to, at the very least, maintain the weight loss I had up to that point. I think that helped me to make better choices in food and activity so I didn't gain very much before I was ready to get back OP.

I agree about all-you-can-eat buffets. It's really tempting to "get your money's worth" by overeating. Plus, there are so many choices that it's tempting to inadvertently eat too much because you want to try it all.

Mousie, I've decided that there are no empty words. Thank you for your kind thoughts.

My dh says that the software guys, like your dh, have been hit really hard in this layoff time here in Northern California. The other group is his group, manufacturing and production, mainly because the current management theory is that they don't need any manufacturing and production--they can contract it out--cheap! And the contract companies don't hire people with my dh's long time experience because they think he's "too expensive".

I also know what you mean about being frustrated by the possibility of needing to give up school and moving back to Britain. I also had to give up school, again, and we may have to move to wherever he can find work. My youngest son said that he doesn't want to move so soon after our last move because he's finally gotten settled a bit here. But we, like you, may end up having no choice.

Just for the record: one seemingly obvious solution to keeping us here longer while Paul looks for work is for me to find a job, but there are none. This area is totally dead and Adecco has called me about exactly 5 opportunities since I registered with therm--two were come in today jobs, which I can't do from Salinas. Two they sent my resume, but the people didn't respond to it. And the one that I did for two weeks.

My prayers are with you and your dh, too.

Re: exercise points--Eating them is optional. But if you're not losing weight, it probably would be a good idea to eat them. It goes against our lifelong "diet" training to think of eating more to lose weight, but if we want long-term weight loss, starving doesn't work.

You do so much activity that your body's resting metabolic rate is probably higher than most peope who weigh what you do. That's the minimum amount of calories you need just to sleep or sit and do nothing. You won't lose weight if you don't eat at least enough calories to fuel that basic metabolic function. You won't have the energy to keep up the exercise level you do if you don't eat enough to fuel that activity.

The key to losing weight is balance. Eating enough to keep your body from starvation mode, but just under what it needs to maintain your weight. That takes some playing around with points to find out what that level is for your body. What I would do is go up to the next range, as your leader suggested, and see what happens over two weeks or a month. (I know WW suggests making changes weekly, but my experience is that the scale often doesn't respond to changes that quickly.) If that doesn't work, then eat a couple of your exercise points for two weeks or a month. Eventually, you should find a place where you're steadily losing weight. If you start to gain weight consistently, do the opposite. Reduce it by a couple of points.

The thing is that the whole system has enough flexibility that you can find out what works for you. The thing that stops most people from experimenting is the fear of gaining even a few ounces while they experiment with the program. But, those experiments can be crucial to long-term weight loss and maintenance because once you've figured out what works, it becomes easier and you tend to stay more motivated because you see successful weigh-ins and smaller measurements and clothing sizes on a more regular basis.

You still have plateaus, though, because your body's needs change as you lose weight. So, experimenting becomes a part of the process. That seems to be true of people who have reached their lifetime goal, too. Things change as their lives change and as they age. So, learning how to experiment and use the tools we've been given seems to be an important part of the process in long-term, permanent weight loss.

As for me, I really, really wanted to just eat last night. But I went online and surfed weight loss web sites instead. It helped me to keep focused on what I want to do. So, I'm OP and I have a few banked points I may need to use today because I had a slightly larger than normal dinner last night. I also have 2 exercise points to work with from a long walk yesterday, if I need them.

Happy turtlin'! :D

Lin

Lin, I was reading your reply again and something ELSE clicked with me (you rock ;) ). I've had my BMR tested, and for right now it's sitting right around 1800-1900 calories a day. That's 36-38 points! Am I really supposed to eat that much??? The testing I had done (electrical impedence, a brand called Futrex) also said that with my activity level I'm burning about 3,300 calories a day.

Now, why am I not losing SCADS of weight? The answer is, my food is below my BMR. Well, duh, right.

But, you know since you pointed this out, we're cultured to NOT eat to lose weight, and the "eat more to lose weight" thing is REALLY hard for me. Anyone have some hints on how to convince myself to do this? When I try to watch what I eat but not severely restrict, I settle around 30-35 points a day. Even though it is "more" than my range, it's still covered by exercise points. So should I just get on and try eating my exercise points? SCARY thought!

Hi, Turtles,

Mousie, the question you have to ask yourself is whether or not you lose weight when you eat at around 30-35 points. If you do, then go ahead and use those points.

You probably won't change your perception about eating more to lose weight until you are successful at it. That means that you must try it before you have the proof. But doing it is the only way to find out if eating more is what you need.

OTOH, if you do it for a couple of weeks or a month and don't lose or even gain a little, it's not the end of the world. It's just a part of the process of figuring out what you need. You will know that you need to do something else.

You haven't said how much you weigh or what your height is or how you feel about your weight. The other thing you might think about is whether you look good and are at a healthy weight. Maybe the smaller weight you had gotten to is not easily maintainable and that's why you're having trouble getting back to it. Maybe you're at a good weight, especially with all of the exercise you're doing.

My weight loss this week is like the weight losses people have the first week they're OP. It was 6 pounds, but most of that was my body letting go of the excess water from PMS. A couple of it was real fat, and I'm glad of that. 5 more pounds and I'll be back in that virgin fat territory Lauren talks about. I haven't been this small in a year or two. Maybe by the end of June, if the turtle pace allows a couple of pounds a week, like it does sometimes.

We went to one of those all you can eat buffets this morning for brunch for Father's Day. I really like this one because the restaurant makes changes in it's food so the portions are smaller. Mini muffins and waffles that are between 1/3 and 1/2 of the size of a regular waffle. They have pies and the slices are about 1/2 of a regular size piece. They have an omelette bar where they cook your omelettes to order and I like that because I could get the cook to pour out all of that extra butter and make a smaller omelette than they usually do. They have a freat fresh fruit bar and a salad bar. I always start out with fruit (and salad, if it's closer to lunch time). Those changes make it easier to eat sensibly, but still try different things.

Im trying a new system for dealing with restaurants when the nutrition information isn't available. Since we don't usually go out very often, I don't count points. Ichoose sensibly and record what I ate. Then I eat at the low end of the average point count for my other meals for that day. I eat things like veggie burgers and light bread (now that I've found one I like--Orowheat brand--worth trying if it's available in your area), or tuna salad in a whole wheat pita. (Thomas's whole wheat pitas are 2 points and I make my tuna salad with nonfat yogurt cheese instead of mayo.) I eat soups and salads with salsa or lemon juice. That strategy seems to work and it saves me from driving myself crazy figuring out points for restaurant meals.

Hope you all are having a terrific weekend!

Happy turtlin'! :cool:

Lin

Happy Monday, turtle friends!

We had a good weekend - I lost another 1.5 this week, pretty good for as bloated as I feel right now. I almost didn't go because I expected to see a gain. Got lucky.

Lots of picnics this time of year - and we also went out for a brunch buffet for Father's Day. I'm doing my best to watch my points and record them, but I find myself having some off program thoughts lately, like "wouldn't it be fun to have some more?" Must stop those - I'll just go right back where I was.

Lori W - welcome back! It's great to hear from you! Good for you on the loss. I know how hard it is to have to lose weight again, but don't worry about it - it's just weight, after all, and with your hard work, will come off. Hopefully, it can stay off this time - that's what I'd like to see for myself, too. Have fun at the gym. I know what you mean about the buffets, but after having been OP for a few months, I've found that my appetite has diminished and I'm better able to handle them. Maybe avoid them for a while and try it again after you've been OP for a while, if you like.

Lin - I'm so happy for you! What a great loss! That is quite an accomplishment, especially considering your recent challenges. Slow and steady is really paying off for you - you'll be into the virgin fat soon, I'm sure. I like your restaurant philosophy - we have also stopped going out as often and I usually make a restaurant meal my one day a week over points meal - not gorging myself, but just enjoying a nice meal without guilt.

Mousie - good luck with your husband's job search and hopefully you'll be able to stay here and finish school. Sounds like you're really taking advantage of some high-tech help with your weight loss - very interesting. Was the BMR test a part of a physical, or was it done at a health club? Congrats on the loss this week!

Lauren, Judy and all - keep turtlin' on!

Kimmers
332/294/269 (2nd 10% goal)

Hi, everyone. Great to see you, Lori.

My family leaves today, so I'm recommitting myself to eating right. The scale this morning has me up 6 whopping pounds from about 5 weeks ago (pre-vacation weight). Yeah, some is PMS, but most isn't. Very, very sobering. :eek:

So here's my brain flash for today: If you always do what you always did, you'll always get what you always got. The past two weeks in particular, I've fallen back into old ways of eating, just going into unconscious mode. And not exercising. And I gained 6 pounds.

Bleah. Bleah, bleah, bleah, bleah, bleah.

--Lauren

Hi, Turtles,

Kimmers, great job. Congrats on losing 1.5 pounds. We all can commiserate with your off-program thoughts. We have them, too. But I love your attitude! It's great to remind yourself what happens if you follow those "wouldn't it be nice if . . ." thoughts.

Lauren, I'm sorry that you've had a slow gain over the past few weeks. I know that you have a plan. And I love your attitude, too. I guess we turtles all needed to be reminded about the consequences of following old habits today, since you both were thinking about it.

I had a thought, though, We could turn that old saying around into a positive force for change by saying:

Change what you've always done to get what you really want.

I'm doing that in the rest of my life, too. Paul and I are determined that we will find a way for Chris to go to art school. We're going to start researching scholarships and grants, etc. this summer. Probably in July or August, when they start promoting them for the fall of 2002.

We've noticed that the tech areas of the country are the most expensive, so one of us needs to be able to earn a living outside of the tech field. So, I'm going to do what I can to pursue my dreams of attending the CIA in New York. I'll be searching for scholarships and grants. I'll also be banking points like crazy so I can refine and practice my pie recipe. The CIA has an apple pie recipe contest and the scholarship prizes range from $2500 - $25,000. If you're a finalist, they fly you to NY for a bake-off. That's why I have to practice. If I'm a finalist, I want to be able to bake it in my sleep! They also have a scholarship for women who want to become food writers. I'll apply for that one, too.

Cooking is an on your feet career. That's why I'm pasting a photo of the CIA on my WW notebook. I want to get as close to, if not at, goal before I go to school. Plus, if they won't accept my HomeChef job to fulfill the food industry job requirement, I will be working on my feet in a kitchen somewhere. That's the hard part because I can't find many restaurants or hospitals looking for food prep/cooks. They all seem to want managers! So, I'll keep looking.

As for the rest--we've found out that Paul's company apparently was bought out by someone else and everyone who was left may be laid off within the next two weeks. We haven't had a response to his resumes, yet. I'm hoping we might at least find some short-term contract work to tide us over until he finds a permanent job. I haven't heard anything more about my brother's condition. And the rest of my life is fine. I'm OP today, thanks to having some banked points. I needed a few, but that's why I banked them.

Happy turtlin'! :D

Lin

Lin,
You're an inspiration to actually lose weight during this tough time. Good for you.
Lots of you are losing and I hope to put myself in that category soon.
Lauren, It's okay--you've had a tough 6 weeks and I'm sure you'll be where you want to be soon.
Yesterday I grabbed a couple of hours early onFather's Day and made some low point foods. I doubled them up so when my daughter came she could go home with homemade spaghetti sauce, ratatouille, chili, and a veggie pie. I took some selections for work today and am OP again. Gotta keep it going.
Best wishes to everyone to get through these tough times with jobs and layoffs.
Take care Lori, Kimmers, Veep, and Mousie. I love the insights you all share. Let's keep on doing this.
Judy
234/?/thinner:dizzy:

Lin, what a great idea about going to the CIA. I know you can do it -- it would be awesome. You're so inspiring and creative in so many things.

Kimmers, it's good to see you again -- I love your picture and one of these days I'll put mine in -- I'm a redhead too. Great job on losing! You sound like you had a good time at the picnics. Those feelings of "Wouldn't it be fun" are quite familiar to me. I'm trying to ignore those feelings even if I eventually give in to an urge once in a while.

As for Father's Day, I stayed home as my parents do the flea markets and this is one of their primo days for selling. (Obviously my parents are not terribly sentimental.) This coming weekend we will visit with my dad on Saturday. I got a lot of walking this weekend. I had purchased a compost bin at a yard sale and left it out in the front yard. That evening it was gone. I put up posters because I thought someone might have taken it thinking it was trash. (It was used.) So I walked around the neighborhood, talked to people, and put up signs asking for its return (and yes, it said, "Lost: Compost Bin"). I probably walked about two hours total. Met a lot of nice people. And on this morning, we woke up and found our compost bin back in the yard. It worked! So it worked out well; my faith in my fellow man is intact (for the most part) and I got a lot of exercise.

Don't be too hard on yourself Lauren. Some people wake up from the unconscious eating mode after about, oh, say 30# worth. You stopped right now. So give yourself a pat on the back for getting back into the swing of things.

I have to tell you that I'm really impressed with you, Judy to make all low point meals beforehand. I am not that prepared and always running late. I need to start acting and planning ahead.

I'm just in a great mood tonight. My compost bin is back, I feel really good for the first time in a long time and finished up my nasty antibiotic. It's time for me to head off to bed. I hope everyone is doing well. Lin, btw, there's more to that story about the homeless man in San Jose -- you might check out this url:

http://www.salon.com/tech/log/2001/06/19/sacrosante/index.html
Again, Lin, I am envisioning a Washington Post article about you winning the apple pie competition. You know, I can see you making a career out of these competitions on top of being a cook from the CIA.

Take care,

Lori W.

Hi, Turtles,

Judy, I'm sure you will lose again soon. It sounds like you're planning ahead and that is one of the keys, I've found.

Lori, thanks for the link. It's funny. I guess the SJ Merc didn't do all of their homework on this one. And they used to be such a great newspaper!

I don't know about a career of cooking contests, but it did occur to me that if I could win more than one I could use the money to finance at least part of my education. The Pillsbury Bake-Off, the creme de le creme of cooking contests, has a cool million for it's grand prize these days. Hmmm. . . that could cover Chris, me and maybe even David's education!

We walked about an hour yesterday and today we're planning to swim some more. I'm not swimming every day because my back muscles get a little sore. They're not used to it yet. So, I'm swimming every other day. And walking on the days in between. I've exercised for 4 or 5 days in a row. I'm not looking at my notebook, so I only have my NOT photographic memory to rely on.

I've been using my banked points the past couple of days. I'm glad I had some because I had a couple of unplanned higher point meals.

But, I'm still OP and doing fine.

"Hi" to all of you who read these threads. Hope the rest of you regulars are having a great day.

I'm going to go ahead and start number 30. We're getting long here. See you all there.

Happy turtlin'! :)

Lin