kclay61
05-05-2005, 04:48 PM
I'm here - just busy - BBL
Support Groups - Twin Mommies Losing Weight!kclay61 05-05-2005, 04:48 PM I'm here - just busy - BBL lucky 05-05-2005, 08:09 PM Today has been good. I'm just at 1200 calories and I am on my way to the gym for the 4th time this week. My calorie level was fine yesterday (1800, one of my higher days for staggering) but, with the exception of a small salad, each and everyone of them came from high sodium crap. I didn't drink any water so I definately felt the resulting bloat this morning. I've had plenty of water today, lots of healthy fare and feel better already. I am going to spend a little time in the sauna tonight though - just to make sure I sweat it all out - LOL. I'm back to trying to talk myself into getting up early enough to go to the gym before everyone else wakes up. I know it is the best time because I don't have to try and squeeze it in around everyone else's schedules. But, I am not a morning person so it is hard. On top of that, I feel a little guilty that DH would have to start getting the kids going on his own. He doesn't mind helping but he has to get himself ready for work whereas I just have to throw on some shoes and go. Hopefully, it will get easier this summer. Since the kids won't have to get up and get moving I won't feel so bad if they are up half an hour or so before I make it back. Plus, they'll probably start sleeping a little later and it won't even be an issue anymore. I really need to sit down with a calendar, the kids schedules, the aerobics schedules, and everything in between and map out a plan. Maybe I'll do that tonight. We'll see. Hope everybody is doing well and OP. I know everyone is really busy these days but I am anxious to hear how things are going for you all. Have a good night. Tricia skinnygrlinsyde 05-05-2005, 09:10 PM Hi! I am so happy I found this group! I am a mama to twins age 4. Both girls and are identical. I had a an emergency c-section with them at 34 weeks, and was bed rested at 5 months. I gained over 60 lbs from that, and have not lost it all. In fact, I have gained even more this past year which I hate, and essentaily why I am here. I am going to try to read through this whole thread now! Hi other twin moms!!! busymom2four 05-06-2005, 10:34 AM Hi all! WELCOME Skinnygirl! We are always happy to have new twin mommies! So...what are your goals? How much do you want to lose? What is your weight loss plan? Well, I did well yesterday. I still didn't exercise, but I ended the day below 1100 calories. I am feeling well today. I have finals for the next week, though, so I might not be around much. I hope you ladies do a great job! Well, I'm going to go eat some breakfast and get cracking on the books. Lori SW: 193 CW: 161.5 Pregnancy GW: 148 UltimateGW: 125-130 lucky 05-07-2005, 12:17 PM I am just checking in - hoping everyone is still on board! I know time is short these days. I've been OP this week and exercise has been okay. I only went to the gym 3 times this week so nothing spectacular but not too bad either. I am anxious to get on the scale Monday. I have a feeling I am going to see an increase since I've gone back to doing weights after vacation. I enjoyed that 157 while it lasted but I'm sure it was mostly a result of not working out for a week and losing a little muscle. We'll see. Either way, I am going to try and not freak out if it is higher this week. Hope you all have a great day! Tricia skinnygrlinsyde 05-07-2005, 01:37 PM hi busymom! I think right now my goal is 30 lbs. what does SW and CW stand for? ANd I think I am going to start to impliment WW the core plan to my life. Right now I have been loosely doing points, but focusing heavliy on no pop and no sugar as well as no fast food. It has been heling alot so far. It has been a week and I am down 5 lbs. I am mostly proud of myself for getting on a week! But If I can quit smoking cold turkey, I can sure as heck quit pop and junk! RIGHT?!?!?!? lucky 05-07-2005, 02:40 PM Welcome Skinnygrl! ABSOLUTELY you can quit pop and junk. Congratulations on the 5 pounds you've already lost. You sound like me. Right now, my goal weight is 135. But I have a feeling that once I get there I'll want to lose 10-15 more. One thing at a time, though, I'll cross that bridge once I get to it. My twins are also 4 years old (b/g) and their big brother is 6. They were born a month early -and thank goodness - they were 7 and 8 pounds. I'd had difficult pregnancies in the past and two premature births so I was also put on bedrest early on. The first weeks or so were awesome a great excuse to nap and relax. But, as I ma sure you know, it got old real quick. During the last month or so I was in the hospital on bedrest which was even worse. What really kept me going was that there was a lady a couple of doors down at the same stage as I was except she was having triplets. I just kept thinking that for as uncomfortable as I was it could still have been worse! She and I checked on each other through the nurses the whole time. We never saw each other or anything though. As it turns out, she was someone I had gone to high school with. I didn't know her well as she was younger than me but her sister and I had been in the same graduating class. By the way, SW = starting weight, CW = current weight. busymom2four 05-07-2005, 04:07 PM Hey gals! Well, I seem to be dropping weight like crazy and I don't know why. Maybe I finally got over that last plateau. I have lost five pounds in the last 10 days! Weird. I am now down to 160. Hooray. I have lost 33 pounds so far! Well, gotta go. Lori lucky 05-07-2005, 05:16 PM Wow Lori! That is awesome. I'm really happy for you. Speaking of plateaus, I'm pretty sure I've hit another one. I expect that from here on out they will be the norm. To be honest, they don't really even bother me anymore. Not seeing the scale move is definately frustrating but the alternative is to give up and go back to 214 pounds and that IS NOT an option. So, there is nothing to do but eat right, exercise, and ride it out. Gotta run. Tricia shyla2001 05-08-2005, 12:21 PM just saying hello...... I'm not even trying since my last post.... keep thinking about re-starting, but just not there yet. will check back later shyla2001 05-08-2005, 04:31 PM well, my grandma gave me an article today re: drinking water & weight loss, and how important it is, etc etc...... so I think starting this week, I'm just going to focus on drinking enough water (it said 1/2 oz for each lb of weight, so that's 105 oz for me!). Maybe that's why my scale didn't move faster, is b/c I NEVER drink enough water!! I'm sure I'll feel better doing it, and might have more energy even. I'm going to get several single serve water bottles & keep them in the fridge, and just drink however many I need for that day. lucky 05-09-2005, 10:35 AM Shawn, I'm glad that you have decided to refocus your efforts and not quit trying all together. I know you've been frustrated lately. It should make you feel better to know that we've all been there. I was wondering, is this the first time you've ever really had to battle your weight? There is a lot of trial and error in finding exactly what works you. In my case, I've been doing this forever so I've known for a while exactly what I have to do to lose weight. The only difference this time around is that I finally have the drive and commitment coupled with knowing what works. One thing you might consider is having a full blown physical - cholesterol, heart stress, etc. Seeing the results of mine is really what kicked me into gear. Don't get me wrong, vanity drove my initial attempts and still helps keep me going. But seeing what poor health being overweight had put me in scared me into changing the way I eat and exercise for good. It really hit home when I looked at my results with my doctor and it dawned on me that I could DIE - SOON - if I didn't do something. After seeing how high my cholesterol was I couldn't have so much as slight heartburn without thinking to myself, "Is THIS a heart attack?" That is no way to live. And then there were all the little ailments - back aches, foot problems, etc. I'm not even close to my ultimate goal weight and already those things are gone. Even the cracked heels I used to have are gone. I just wanted you to know that we all know how you feel. And even if you aren't ready to give it 100% right now please keep checking in. You never know when you'll read a post that finally makes everything click for you and all of a sudden you'll be dropping pounds and well on your way to your goal weight. I will tell you that as you progress it gets much easier. Challenges are always part of the game as are frustrations. But something changes inside that makes them not quite as big a deal as they once were. I can honestly say that I can't imagine going back to eating and being as lazy as I used to be. In fact, I know that I won't. That isn't to say that I won't have bad days or make poor choices just that I know I'll recognize those days for what they are and then get back on track. You'll get to this point too and you will be amazed at how good it feels. I hope this doesn't sound preachy. I know losing weight is important to you and I know you can do it. Just keep trying - you'll get there! Tricia busymom2four 05-09-2005, 12:10 PM Hi guys. Happy belated Mother's Day!!! Hope you all had a great one! Well, I'm up a pound and a half today. I am not worried though, because it is my time of the month and I prepared myself. I gain 1-2 pounds during my period and during ovulation. It really helps to know that. I don't worry about it because next week the weight will fall off pretty well. I have 12 more pounds to lose until I can get pregnant! Hooray! I can't wait. I'm silly, I know. I just love babies and the kids they turn into :D . My husband actually told me last weekend that he wanted to start trying THIS MONTH. I don't know about that. I really need to lose more weight first. I think we should wait until July or August. Anyway, I am doing well. I did great last week (after my couple of "discouraged" days). I had a cheat day for Mother's day yesterday. I didn't even log my calories. I have no idea what I ended up at. I did well except for a big old piece of chocolate cake, lol. Shawn--good idea to focus on the water. Anything you can do to stick with it is great. I think that Tricia's idea about going to the doctor is a great one. I am really chicken about something like that :lol: . I know it's because I would be afraid of what they would tell me. Perhaps it could be the kick in the pants you need. It's a rainy, rainy day here! Hope yours is a good one. Lori lucky 05-10-2005, 11:26 AM I weighed in yesterday was still at 157.6. I have lost inches, though, so I know I'm still losing fat and developing more muscle. That is fine by me. As much as I love watching the number on the scale drop I am trying to focus more on clothing size and measurements. The clothes I've bought are size 10 and are already starting to feel a little loose. My mom cleaned out her closet and gave me a lot of her size 8 stuff. Amazingly, I can wear them - they just are too tight to be comfortable and don't look nice just yet. They are the goal I'm working towards. So, even if the scale doesn't budge I'll know I'm doing something right once I can wear them. The good news is that I got enough from her that I won't have to purchase anything new once I get to that size. I'll get to save my money for the size 6 stuff! YAY! Now, let me stop right here and say that just he NOTION of being a size 6 again is mind boggling. I started high school in a size 4 but I think post twins 6 is probably as good as it gets - short of surgery. LOL. Probably the biggest problem I have right now is trying to catch my brain up with my body. I still have fat girl mentality. For instance, when I get dressed in the morning I get nervous about putting my new clothes on because I have trouble accepting that I can wear anything less than an 18. I expect them to be too small and am still surprised when they fit. Wierd. Definately something I have to work on. Have a great day ladies! Tricia busymom2four 05-10-2005, 02:15 PM Tricia--That is so awesome about the size 8's!!! Funny...I am at 160 and I don't think I'd get close into a size 8. HOWEVER, most of my weight is around my belly (I'm not kidding when I say that I still look five month pregnant!). I could fit the size 8 pant legs, but not button them, lol. I can wear size 12 comfortably right now. *Shrug* Different body types. You probably have more muscle than I do too. My legs are quite thin and muscular and I think could easily fit into size 8 maternity pants, lol. I just need a pocket for my big belly. I have lost some more inches around my middle, though. I can see a difference. I LOVE that. Well...I am up a pound, but my period started in force this morning. I ended yesterday at just 800 calories. I had some REALLY rich left over Mother's Day cake in the afternoon and then I was so full I just couldn't eat any dinner. Weird. You know it's bad when half your 800 calories come from a piece of chocolate cake!! Eek! Must be that time of the month stuff. Well, today I am at 200 calories so far. I need to go eat some lunch. I didn't exercise, but I pushed all three girls (together they weigh about 90 pounds) in the cart at the store for an hour and a half. I also had a 35 pound bag of cat litter, four gallons of milk and so on. I thought I was going to die, lol. We stopped shopping because our cart was so full. I didn't know if I could push it anymore. My poor baby was surrounded with food on all sides, lol. She was a little ticked off about it. Anyway, I'd better go find some lunch. Shawn--How's the water intake going? Hope you're doing well. I hope everyone else is also doing well. Lori shyla2001 05-10-2005, 08:33 PM just a quick checking in..... water intake today was not good, but I've walked the past 2 days (1/2 hr each day). not watching what I eat, though..... just doing what I can for now lucky 05-10-2005, 11:29 PM Shawn, all of the little changes eventually add up. Some people seem to be able to jump right in with both feet and they are on their way. But I think there is something to making small, deliberate changes over time. Like you said, do what you can for now and make more changes as you feel comfortable. Even if losing weight is your ultimate goal, incorporating healthy routines (walking, drinking more water) doesn't hurt in the meantime. You still reap the benefits even if the scale doesn't prove it. I am proud of you for not throwing in the towel. I know it is hard when you don't see the results that you know you deserve (I've been fighting plateau after plateau). Something is going to click for you soon enough and you'll find something that works for you and that you can live with. Hang in there! So, today was my niece's 11th birthday and we had a family dinner at her favorite Mexican restaraunt. I have to admit I was a little nervous as it also happens to be my favorite and I wasn't sure how well I could control my eating. This was really the first time since I've started that I was in a situation where I felt I might cave. I am happy to report that it turned out not to be that big of a deal. I indulged but not excessively. I'd say that I left feeling more full than usual but much less than stuffed. The funny thing is that it wasn't nearly as good as I remembered. When I worked DH and I met there for lunch at least twice a week. I would eat and eat until my plate was clean - and that was after we'd split a bowl of queso dip. I'd leave absolutley miserable and yet think that was a good feeling. Tonight, besides barlely nibbling the chips and eating less than half of what I ordered, I still felt as though I'd over done it. Nothing horrible, really, but being anything past "satisfied" just out right feels yucky now. As I was eating I would think to myself, "this is good but it isn't so good that it is worth feeling miserabley stuffed." I have to say feeling that way catches me completely off guard. I still EXPECT to want to overindulge. I mean doing so was so routine until I started losing weight in January. I completely understand the buzz pharse "lifestyle change" now. I really think that how I eat now is how I will eat for the rest of my life. But I have no idea when that mentality set in. I certainly didn't notice when it happened. I don't know, I guess I'm just having trouble wrapping my brain around the fact that I THINK like a thin person now - even though I am far from it. Lori, it is definately just a matter of build. I do have quite a tummy but I've lost a lot of weight from there. I'm much broader through the shoulders and have never been lacking in the boob department. So, tops are still a little bigger sizes than my pants and I expect they always will be. But, I've gotten out of the tops that have sizes starting with X so if I don't get any smaller up there I'm still a happy camper! I've been working with weights since I started back in January but recently started putting as much focus on them as I do cardio. I can really tell a difference. Is still have lots of fat to lose but I can see plenty of definition in my muscles and it is very encouraging. Right now, I'm trying to find the right balance between gaining muscle and losing fat. I'm still experimenting and don't think I've found my optimum mix but I'm getting there. The hardest part now is moving my focus away from the scale. I am a junkie even though I KNOW the number doesn't really mean a lot right now. Oh, well, what are you gonna do? I've babbled enough. Hope you all have a great night! Tricia shyla2001 05-11-2005, 10:57 PM walked again today; my legs are stiff & sore; does that mean I need to take a day off tomorrow? I hate to do that, b/c I'm on a roll! KellieB 05-12-2005, 08:27 AM Sounds like you are doing well Shawn!! It has been crappy weather here the last 2 days so I have not been out walking. Plus I cracked my toe and it is all purple and bruised. It does feel better today though. Well, I have to say my eating has gone down the tubes. We have had a lot going on in our lives lately and it has not been a focus of mine. Then yesterday I got the news that my mom is going to have a risky surgery to remove a few masses near her spinal column. Eating is my comfort, so that is what I did. I know it hs not good, but it happened. We don't know when or where she is going to have it done, but know that it is coming in the near future. Glad to hear that you are both doing so well Tricia and Lori! Keep up the great work! Kellie busymom2four 05-12-2005, 10:37 AM Well, My eating has been going really well. Even with a Mother's Day "cheat day" I have averaged 1100 calories the last week. I haven't been very hungry. My extra pound from my period is gone even though it is only been two days since my period started. I am pleased about that and can't WAIT to see 159.5 on the scale instead of 160! It is always fun to get down to the next "decade." Shawn--great job on the walking! I haven't exercised in TWO WEEKS! Eek! Today that is my goal...exercise. Especially as I near "P-Day" (Pregnancy Day, lol), I need to be fit! My newest goal is to get down to 152 by the Fourth of July. My sister is coming to visit and I haven't seen her since I lost the weight. I actually started losing weight because SHE was doing it too. I haven't seen her weight loss either. She has lost 32 pounds...basically the same amount as I have. I am excited! After my sister's visit (she is staying for two and a half weeks), I am going to start trying to get pregnant. My pregnancy goal weight is about 148. We'll see if I make it by then. Kellie--I am so sorry to hear about your mom. My dad was recently diagnosed with cancer and it was a hard week. I will keep your family in my prayers. The fact that you are at least posting says that watching what you eat is stilll at least a bit on your mind. Well...Ladies here's to a day full of willpower! Lori SW: 193 CW: 160 PregnancyGW: 148 UltimateGW: 125-130 lucky 05-12-2005, 11:00 AM Kellie, I am sorry to hear about your mom. I will keep you and your family in my thoughts. Such emotional and stressful situations can really take a toll on a weight loss program. Without a doubt, I have always been an emotional eater. HOWEVER, what has worked for me is reminding myself that I am of no use to the people who need me or in helping resolve a conflict if I haven't taken care of myself first. We all need energy to face the tough things in life. Think about the rules on an airplane. If there is a problem they tell you to put the oxygen mask on yourself FIRST, even before helping your children with theirs. Of course, the reason is that you can't help anyone if you are struggling to breath and survive yourself. So, now, I try to take that mentality when I face emotional and stressful situations. Instead of hunkering down with a bowl of macaroni and cheese I stay on plan knowing that eating healthily is what will keep me at my peak. All that comfort food never solved a thing. It certainly won't make your mom's surgery any less upseting, it certainly won't help her recover any faster, and in the end it is just going to make you feel physically tired and probably a little guilty on top of it all. Please don't get me wrong. I don't mean it to sound as if I am juding your reaction. Like I said, everything in my being tells me to do the exact same thing when I'm in a similar situation. But, if I take a little time to calm down, think about what I really need and what will really help me through, I almost always make the right decision. Shawn, sounds like you are doing great with your walking. How has your water intake been? I know you've been trying to up how much you drink. In fact, you inspired me to do the same. I've had only water for the past couple of days and I feel so much better. I don't think diet drinks have a negative impact on weight loss but water just does so much GOOD. I think the amount we sometimes hear to drink is a little overstated but there is no doubt that making it you main beverage makes a difference. I haven't done any official exercise in a couple of days but yesterday I did dig a sandbox for the kids. Let me tell you, it WAS a workout so I didn't feel bad taking a break from the gym. I will be going tonight though. My goal is to finish out the week with at least an hour and a half each day. Keep up the good work everyone! Tricia kclay61 05-12-2005, 06:31 PM :D He's here! He got here yesterday, at 3pm - he is so pretty. His name is Cameron and he weighed 8lbs 12oz and 22in. long Mom, Dad and baby are doing fantastic - they should be coming home tomorrow. :D shyla2001 05-12-2005, 06:44 PM wow! Cameron's a big boy! I'm glad everyone is doing well! Congrats, Kim! shyla2001 05-14-2005, 10:40 AM well, I'm thinking I need to start again...... I'm not looking forward to watching what I eat again, but we're going to see my dad (& that whole side of the family) for Father's Day in June, and I always hate being the fat one! I'll feel better about the whole thing if I can drop a bit b/t now & then.... just need to set a start-date now..... lucky 05-14-2005, 11:32 AM Shawn, I think it is great that you've decided to start again. It always helps me to have a reason behind my efforts too. Obviously, health and vanity are always there but sometimes a little something extra like a family visit keeps me on my toes. As a matter of fact, we will be visiting DH family later this summer and I am hoping to be close if not at my goal weight by then. It is definately keeping me from becoming content with where I am. As for a start date...what about right now? There is no time like the present! Good luck to you. If there is anything extra the rest of us can do to help you please let us know. I've gotten pretty good finding ways to get a lot of food out of just 1500 calories - I'll be happy to PM you a typical week for me if you think some new food ideas would help. I hope it will help you to know that we are all 100% behind you! I am off to the gym. I've missed my favorite step class but I'm sure I can find something to work off a few calories. I am thinking about swimming a few laps in the pool just as something different. I've been stuck in an exercise rut and I think it will help if I mix things up again. Oh, and I've asked DH to take pictures from the front, side, and back view. It was a little tramatic just asking him to do it - seemed so gooby for some reason. But, I haven't been this weight since well before my children were born so I know the pictures I have aren't an accurate reflection of how my body actually looks. And, of course, the mirror doesn't give me an objective enough view. I think I've reached the stage where exercising, specifically weights, needs to become a little more focused. But since I don't have a realistic idea of how I look I'm not sure where to start. I have to be honest, I'm a little afraid that these pictures are going to discourage me if they aren't as good as the image I have in my head (which still isn't great, just better than the one I had 4 months ago!). I suppose it will be worth it to have a better idea of what my goals need to be from here on out. Have a great day! Tricia shyla2001 05-14-2005, 12:21 PM Tricia - I would LOVE for you to PM me some info re: getting alot of food from just 1500 cals!! As I've said in another post, it feels like I can't eat much at all, so I'd appreciate that help! lucky 05-16-2005, 01:10 PM I had my "official" weigh in yesterday and lost 1.2 pounds last week. I am so excited because I rarely see the scale move more than a few ounces anymore. I'll get to that first smiley face on my ticker yet! I also had DH take pictures from every angle. It really helped my eyes and brain catch up with my body. I was looking in the mirror and not really seeing my progress. I wanted to objectively look at myself so that I could pinpoint the areas I really need to focus on while losing these last 20 pounds. I was surprised to find that I am not fat anymore. Don't get me wrong, I'm not thin either. But, I'm not fat - I wouldn't stand out in a room full of what I consider normally sized women. Pretty spiffy, and very motivating to boot. Where has everyone been? Out enjoying beautiful spring weather I hope! Have a great day and good luck on your Wednesday weigh ins! Tricia shyla2001 05-17-2005, 10:10 AM I am here, not been doing good (eating/exercise)... but am trying again today; my first goal is to be good until lunch.... so far, so good! busymom2four 05-17-2005, 11:11 AM Hi ladies! I'm still here too. I've been super busy lately. I have had a so-so week. I did really well for 4-5 days and had a bad couple of days. I am hoping to not see a gain tomorrow. Besides that I've been doing well. We are going out of town next weekend (over Memorial Day) so I won't be around much next week. It is my grandparents 60th wedding anniversary! We are having a family reunion to celebrate. The kids are estatic! They love going to visit Gwanma and Gwanpa. Well...I have not eaten breakfast yet so I'd better go find something! Here's to a healthy and exercise full day! Lori KellieB 05-18-2005, 07:55 AM Hi All! I am here too. I have started walking again and trying to eat better. I broke my toe last week, so it was hard to do much. It is feeling better now so I can get back out there. We are going to my SIL graduation this weekend. It will be nice to get away. We are looking forward to it. Plus my MIL & FIL have not seen the girls since Christmas!! ETA ~ I have decided that I can not weigh every week either. Not saying that I don't jump on the scale every now and then, but I can't be a slave to it. It makes me depressed and then I figure why continue. So instead, I am going to do either every other week or once a month. That way I am not so hard on myself every week. shyla2001 05-18-2005, 08:47 AM Kellie - I think that's a good idea, and I may do the same re: the scale. Even after "being bad" for a week or two, I was happy to see that the scale didn't creep all the way back up! I guess the LITTLE changes (ie - water, walking, etc) DO help! kclay61 05-18-2005, 06:15 PM Hey everyone :wave: how's it going? I have been off program for awhile now. Probably won't go back until after summer break (we get out Friday). I'm going to watch certain things I eat, and the amount I eat, but I'm not even going to TRY dieting. We do too much stuff during summer break, such as camping, etc. Still in love with my new grandson. He is growing like a weed. Dr. said, Monday, that he was up to 9lbs 3oz. :) OK gotta run - check back later lucky 05-24-2005, 12:21 PM I hope our thread doesn't fizzle out all together! In the event that any of you guys are still checking in I thought I would mention that I've come across a really good new snack. Blue Bunny Sweet Freedom Fudge Lites. One fudgecicle has only 35 calories and is sugar/fat free. They probably aren't an option for you, Shawn, since you don't use artifical sweeteners. But for anyone who doesn't mind Splenda they are surprisingly good for so few calories and have really been helping to curb my sweet tooth. Hope everyone is doing okay! kclay61 05-25-2005, 05:50 PM Just letting you know that I won't be back for awhile - it is summer break and we stay very busy - I will be back but it will be more like August. Have a great summer everyone shyla2001 06-13-2005, 09:55 PM Is anyone still out there??? HELLLL-OOOOO *hears echo* :) I am back, b/c I went to my ob/gyn to get on anti-depressants, and at my 30 day check-in, she got onto me pretty hard about my weight........ soooo.... I'm writing down everything I eat, and reporting back to her in 30 days..... tonight I walked for 40 minutes -- I'm sitting here sweating as I type this. Just wondering if anyone else is still around? btw - my siggy is no longer right; I've gained it all back... again.... vBulletin® v3.6.7, Copyright ©2000-2012, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
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