Support Groups - Desperate Housewives #305 *TGIF*

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12-03-2004, 08:46 AM
Welcome all to a thread full of wonderful women taking on the responsibilty of raising a family and trying to take care of themselves too. We look forward to a new day with members, new and old! Please feel free to jump right in and say hello Here is a little bit about who we are ...

MichelleRae: Michelle sahm to Taylor 8-25-01 & Teagan 10-13-03 Married 2 years to Zhaun. Plan I'm following is a combined WW and South Beach Diet.

Spryng: 24 y.o. married 6 years. Kids- Ava 4, Bubba (aka Joseph) 3 & Tanner 1. Currently on ww, hit goal in April.

Mompen: Penny 24 y.o. Happily Married & SAHM Momma to three active boys, Hunter 5, Nicholas 4 & Andrew 18 mo. Taking what I learned from WW & South Beach is my way of life.

Loveliam: Leigh SAHM to Liam 10.21.03 & happily married for 2 years. Doing the Weight Watchers thing.

Sydsmom: Kristin SAHM to Sydney 09-27-01, married almost 2 years to wonderful dh Began Weight watchers mid-July

Cheri: married to Donald for 8.5 years, SAHM/homeschooling momma to Nathan, 5 (9-11-98), Daniel, 3 (8-29-00) & Elijah, 1 (10-16-02) & doing the low carb thing kinda, lol

Cindi: Mom to 6 boys & 1 mean girl. Plan.. No diet for me! Portion control, exercise & lots of water (most days)

Chubba: Geri..Mom to two boys, Will (3) & Tony (1)..married for 4 years to a great guy..following Dr Phil most days!

Crystal: 27 yo sahm of 3 almost 4. Alisa 6, Ally 3, & Andrew 22 months. Due Feb 1st. Married 9 years, live in Texas & homeschool. My plan, when on it, counting calories & exercise.

Ricci sahm to two boys 4 and 5, married 7 years, doing ww

Jill: SAHM of 1 daughter, Bayley, born 9/19/03. Currently trying to lose some of the baby weight I gained with her & need some extra support to help me do so.

Melissa: SAHM of 1 girl (4) and 1 boy (2). Currently watching what I eat and exercising 4-5days a week.

Deana: SAHM of 3 boys and 1 girl. Counting calories, exercising, and drinking lots of water.

Chris: SAHM of Tiana, Kayla and Nicole: ages 11, 5, and 2. Married for 5 years. I live in Billings, Montana. I'm a rheumatoid arthritis sufferer and trying using WW Flexpoints to lose weight

12-03-2004, 08:55 AM
:coffee: :coffee: :coffee:

Morning ladies. Hope you all had a good night. Mine was terrible. I was having some prelabor or false labor pains last night. I'm pretty sure that's what it was and only because I've had so many I'm able to know that. If it were my first, I'd probably would've thought it was real. They weren't painful, but it was those braxton hicks over and over and over and a few were quite uncomfortable but not really painful. Finally, they stopped for the most part. But I slept awful because for one I'm so uncomfortable and for two, Andrew slept terrible. I really think he's teething, his molars, but I had given him Tylenol. Obviously he needs something alittle stronger than that. I'll try kids advil or motrin tonight.
I'm gonna ask my mom if I can clean her house tomorrow instead of today. We have to school and if we school and I still clean then I don't get a nap, but tomorrow we won't have to school so I can get both if I have to. I know she won't care, besides she's not going to be home tomorrow so it shouldn't make a big deal to her. In that case, I'll nap when Andrew does and school this afternoon and run some errands much later. All the guys work on our house until dark every day so I'll have plenty of time to do it all, hopefully.
Well, dh picked up his dad last night and his dad tried to come back here and stay...can you believe that? 5 of us in this 2 bedroom house and me in this condition. It cost us $40 to put him in a hotel room to not come back here. Luckily, dh was able to tell him that he didn't want him to stay because everytime he comes back it causes him heartache and grief. He told him he didn't want to be the one to keep him from seeing and knowing his grandkids so if he really wanted to try they would take little bity baby steps to get to that point. So, his dad is here in Terrell and I'm sure he'll be around soon enough.

Enough about that...
Chris, glad your computer is fixed. Let us know exactly what that gift is Ginny gave you.

Deana, at some point today I am getting out to run errands so I'll get your package mailed later today. Sure hope you like it.

I'll get more personal later. I've got some computer work to do for dh before I forget...again.

12-03-2004, 09:26 AM
Good morning all! Just a quick post from me, I'm about to clean up the living room and then head out to work. I'm so glad it's friday!!! Yesterday was a bit stressful because I screwed up on something and I felt terrible about it, thankfully I was also able to fix it but it scared me and I was down about it for the rest of the day. But today is a new day with no mistakes in it!!!! :) So I'm going to focus on that :)
Dh might be home tonight so I'm excited about that!
Ginny, I'm so glad flex is still working for you!! I don't know if I'll ever switch back from Core, I just love not having to count anything anymore (I don't even count my WPA's, lol)
Crystal, so sorry about those braxtin hicks! But your uterus is warming up and before long it will be the real thing!!

Sorry this is so short. I gotta scoot! Pennt, your package was mailed yesterday! I can't wat until you get it! :)

12-03-2004, 10:47 AM
Good Morning! :coffee2:

So sorry you had such a terrible night! Well...evening too, Crystal! Sounds like there are some issues going on there. That wasn't right about you having to fork out $40. :( Spryng is right about the uterus warming up, it happens more frequently the more children you have. For all of that, I helps cut down on the actual labor, some women have children faster than with their first. It is getting closer! :dance: Yipee!
Hope you don't mind me asking, but why do you have to clean your mom's place is she disabled? Or maybe she's working and pays you to do it so you can have some extra bucks? I know how tired you are getting, somehow that feeling doesn't go away during the last weeks.

Spryng-you are still new to the job, mistakes are normal. I'm glad you are getting in the swing of things and a routine in forming! And by golly, you are still OP! Great! Sounds like you're on top of things!

Well the big weigh in news (at least for me) I lost three pounds this week, after the Thanksgiving slips :hyper: I'm good with that because I know I can't and shouldn't lose too fast. My goal, inside my own head, was to lose ten lbs. every month. I wonder if that is unreasonable. I've been here since end of Oct. so I'm a little ahead. I figure that only initial weight loss anyway. It will probably slow down. I don't think I can join the challenge this time but after Martin is weaned...Yeah Baby! :hat: Well I better go drink some water, I have 5 Qts. to drink!! I'll be like Jumanji were the water starts flowing like crazy down the stairs! ;) TTYL

~Roxy :sunny:

12-03-2004, 10:55 AM
Spryng, hope dh gets to come home. I thought he was getting a job to where he'd be home every night? Did I miss something? Hope you have a good day.

Roxy, yes issues with dh's real dad. No it isn't fair we shelled out that cash, but to tell you the truth it was worth him not coming here. I clean my mom's house for the extra cash. I'm about finished though, I told her I'd clean up until Christmas and then that was enough for me. It gets too hard in this part of my pregnancy. Yeah, I know these contractions are normal, but I was concerned since I'm almost only 32 weeks, I'm not really in my "safe zone" until I'm 36 weeks and I didn't want to do anything to make them get real or harder or faster or anything like that. I go back to the doc on Tuesday, so I'm sure I'll be okay.
I've got a towel on my head, gotta go.

12-03-2004, 11:49 AM
Good morning,
just a fly by. Geri, THANK YOU for the scarf. It's beautiful. Now I want the weather to cool off so I can wear it.
Have a great day everyone.

12-03-2004, 11:53 AM
Hey girls!!

Crystal sorry bout the uncomfortable contractions. I never had braxton hicks and I've never gone into labor on my own so I have no clue what that feels like. I had complications with each of my pregnancies so I was induced both times. I was sad when I was induced with Teagan cuz I wanted to feel what it was like to go in to labor on my own. Oh well!

Spryng, yeah what happened with DH's local route? Did he not like it? or does he have to go on extended runs every once in awhile? Have a great day at work!

Roxy what do you have planned for today?

Okay Ladies over the last few days I have been working on a challenge for those of us that want to pe a part of it and it's outlined on our MSN group page at its called the biggest loser challenge and you have to pay to play so to speak each participant MUST contribute a 10 dollar walmart card the person with the most points at the end wins all of the cards. so please if you are interested go sign up at the msn site and this challenge will be tracked on our msn group so everything regarding this challenge must be put on that site :) I hope we get lots of people to sign up and the jackpot can grow! if perhaps not a lot of people join then maybe we can up the card amount to 15 bucks if everyone agrees :D


12-03-2004, 12:08 PM
Hi Michelle-
Glad you're around. I'm just cleaning today like a maniac so I can go out shopping tonight. I was wondering...Is the msn site the same as the other site you had? I'm confused I thought there was only one. Is the msn site like a blog or is it more of a private site? Just curious, believe it or not 3fc is my first site to talk on. I usually just have always e-mailed and googled and stuff. I am so behind in techno-stuff it's not even funny. Grandmas I know are more computer savvy! I have a lot to catch up on! Do you have anymore shopping sites, for us house potatoes? What are you up to today?

~Roxy :sunny:

12-03-2004, 12:15 PM
Oh Michelle, I sort of understand about wanting to go into labor on your own, but you're really not missing alot, but pain. Braxton Hicks contractions usually start early like at 5 or 6 months along, but alot of docs don't say anything about it. I used the midwife that told me everything. It's just where your tummy gets really, really hard. Not painful, just sort of takes your breath away. It's your uterus contracting, actually getting ready for the real thing. Towards the end of your pregnancy, they get alittle worse and just uncomfortable, not really painful but it helps you progress faster, so they say.
And I think the baby is moving head down. Her kicks have always been on my right side and after all that stuff last night, today all her movements are right at the top of my tummy. That must have been what all that was about last night. It's time I guess for her to get prepared.
Okay, Andrew is napping and I'm gonna go do the same. After lunch the only school we're doing is a spelling and math test. Then we'll run a few errands in town. Hope all is going well. TTYL

12-03-2004, 12:34 PM
Roxy the MSN group is a site that most of the people who post on this thread post on, we have message boards and a chatroom and photos there :) Go apply to join and I'll approve it as soon as I get it! I hope you are interested in joining our challenge!!

Crystal, my doctor was really great and I knew all about everything I just never had any braxton hicks at least not ones that I could feel. The worst pain I had when pregnant was my hips hurt sooooo bad, and with Teagan my cervical floor (thats' what I call it) was straining and painful and I swelled up like a balloon because of my blood pressure with her. my whole pregnancy I had Ultrasounds once a week and non stress tests twice a week, well those came at about 25 weeks on, but you wouldn't believe all the US pics I have of teagan lol I even have a 3d video us of her that I got when I went to my perinatologists office, I actually had 3 doctors to see when pregnant with her, my perinatologist which watched the baby for problems during the pregnancy (because of my problems) and then I had 2 ob/gyn who are just wonderful wonderful women!! Okay you got me rambling on and on now!! 'I'm gonna shut up!!

12-03-2004, 12:58 PM
HI Ladies! :) I know I have been MIA the last few days...things have jut been crazy around here! First on Tuesday we got all the lights and x-mas decos up, our house looks so cool!! Then we went to get the pics taken of sydney and well..for some odd reason she is scared to do it. SO we went home to decorate with no pictures :(...Wednesday morning was my root canan, and then my MIL came over at noon and didn't leave until 3PM! She thought I would need all this help when everything was and I both just wanted her to leave so we could lay down :devil: I was just mostly pain really. I get to go back though next week to get the medication removed from the tooth and the perminent filler put in, then I have to go back again to get fitted for a crown and then AGAIN to get the crown put on! sheeesh! All for one tooth! Thank god we have dental insurance. It is costing us roughly $2000 to have this done..we only have to pay about $400 of it....whew :o . Anyway, then I worked on wed night too. SO then yesterday we tried AGAIN to get the pics done, no can do, she feaked out again and threw the worst tantrum in the car, because we were going to get lunch at the mall if she did a good job (bribe, yeah , I know :lol: ) So I took her home and on the way home she was screaming, crying, thrashing around and saying she would go back all because she wanted to eat at the malll...she didn't get the concept that there were other appointments and I couln't go back. ugh..she she basically cried herself to sleep...and Iwas so tired from dealing with her that I fell asleep too. I worked again last night and so here I am! ;) I need to get some things done and get in the shower...another busy day today. Got to go to the grocery store, playdate lunch with our neghbors, go to the goodwill, get a tarp for the riding lawn mower, take some stuff back to walmart....and yes, we go yet again to get pictures taken tongiht. She swears that she will sit nice, since she wants to have dinner very badly at the mall! :lol3: ...we'll see..wish me luck! LOL

OKay one more thing and then I gotta go. I will get personal with the rest of you ladies later I hope! :)

Michelle - did ya get your gift??? huh,huh? I am so excited for you to see it, I made it :) well part of it...LOL

Penny! Im gonna have to tell you when you get back, but I got her gift!!!! It is so nice!!! She sent a little rhino note pad for sydney which she loves and I got a black and gold 3 peice travel organizer (that is what I call it lol) its for makeup and toiletries! I love it! I have been needing a new one badly that is so funny that she got me that! :) Thanks thanks thanks to penny, hope you are having fun in Disney :D :D :D

12-03-2004, 02:00 PM
Hey all!

Michelle, THAT"S Wonderful new for you and Zauhn and for Taylor. I'm happy for you.

Crystal, sorry to hear you had all those contractions last night. Try to stay off your feet as much as possible. Braxton hicks or not, still could go into full labor if your not careful. Believe me I KNow. Feel better.

Kristin, ooooo, so glad you like Penny's gift to you. It's so much fun doing the swap. Sorry, Syd was affraid of takin her pic. I know how that goes. Boy, getting a tooth fixed is expensive! WOW! I hope that's feeling ok soon for you too.

Hey Roxy! Congrats on the weight losss.....WTG!!!

Deana, where r u ??

OK ladies, I'm so proud of myself. I did the ARch trainer again today. added 1 minute. So I did 36minutes and burned 403calories. Then I did the Treadmill for 10 as a cool down and burned 59 calories AND I did 300 sit ups and some other weight training. According to my tops software, I burned 945 calories. 30minutes of weight training is like 520 calories or something. I'm pooped, but feel good that I pushed myself again. BTW, I'm down 1inch in 3 weeks on my stomach/hip area. Still no weight gone, but 1inch is huge ...I think anyway.

Michelle, BTW the Challange and points system. Do you gets points for both or do you have to pick one and stick with it. I think everyone should have to pick one area of the body to measure monthly. Using the same area once a month for inches and once a week for weight. What do you think?

OK ladies. ttyl. Gotta put patrick down for a nap so that I can get some stuff done.

12-03-2004, 02:10 PM
Michele......wonderful news on the adoption exciting!!!!!!!
Crystal- how are you feeling??????
Roxy- great news on the loss!!!!!! (especially at this time of year)
Melissa- good for you gettting that workout in....
Kristin- we just had to shell out $900 for Ds to have root canal....dentistry is so expensive, but a bad tooth is the pits too.
Spryng- have a great day at work.

Sorry to be so terse....I drove my am.....ran to the mall and Walmart.....started dinner......and gotta get out of here to drive my afternoon.......
See ya !

12-03-2004, 02:20 PM
Ginny, have a great day! You are busy!!!!!

12-03-2004, 02:35 PM
Mel, I want to allow everyone to track and count both inches and lbs lost inches get more points because you don't lose them as fast as pounds and you are only allowed to measure waist, hips and thighs. Does that sound fair?

Ginny have a great day!!

12-03-2004, 03:43 PM
Hi all,

Just a quickie :) as I'm at work! glad you got the was soooo soft I almost kept it for myself!!

Spryng...I know how you feel about mistakes...but that is how we you'll never do it again!!

Michelle....toooo cooool about the adoption.

Hi to everyone else..I hear my boss approaching...must go quickly!!

12-03-2004, 03:52 PM
Had to sneak back on just to say to Crystal...sorry you're so uncomfortable...but how's getting sooooo close!!

12-03-2004, 04:25 PM
Afternoon ladies,
Just sorta a quickie for me. I have to finish cleaning, so I can go out shopping later.

Michelle-That is so great about Taylor's adoption! I am sure it will go smoothly, it doesn't seem like it even will be contested. Your Zhaun must be an awesome guy! Hope everything goes fast from now on! As for the challenge, I can't do it this time while, I'm still nursing. I have to go my own puttering pace for a while. I am going to be so ready when we are all finished. Can I still play on the msn site, please, please, huh, huh? :lol:

Ginny- Busy,busy,busy! :stars: Whew!

Geri- Hi! Hope your doing good today! Avoiding the bossman? ;)

Kristin- I hope that your tooth feels better, dental surgery is sooo expensive!
DS had to have 6 wisdom teeth removed (2 were buds...yes he's an alien!) and it was over $2000! :fr: We also had to cough up $400. That one still hurts! Hope Syd takes her pictures like a good girl!

I probably won't be back until late tonight I have stuff to do and not enuff time to do it.TTYL


12-03-2004, 04:34 PM
Well I had something all written out and then walked away, came back and went to another web page forgetting I hadn't clicked post yet so I lost it. Anyway................ I wanted to say hi and I am still alive! I have been keeping track of all of you but been super busy with school and have a lot to do before I am done next Thursday. After that though I am home free for 4 weeks!!! I am so excited! Haven't been too good as far on being OP but yesterday and today were better. Definitlely need to drink more water, it makes all the difference in the world. I am super excited about the Biggest Loser Challenge! I think it will really give me the boost I need to get the extra pounds off and keep me on track during this season with all the goodies. I have a list of things I want to do after school is over a mile long so I will be excited to get started on that.

Michelle so excited for you!! WTG on the adoption. I bet that will make everything feel so complete! It was fun talking with you last night, we should do it again soon! Probably not tonight though since I have a huge test in the morning. However since I am so used to staying up late I'm not sure I will be able to go to bed at a decent hour anyway! LOL

Kristin so sorry about your tooth, glad it's fixed though! Missed chatting with you last night. Don't forget to sign up for the challenge. It's going to be so great!

Crystal sorry you are so uncomfortable, seems like just yesterday............................ I don't envy you at all! I hope you get a nap in. Too cool about the house, get us some pics soon!

Geri got your present finally, hope to mail it today. Sorry I am such a slacker but I've been so stressed with school that I hadn't set foot in a store for awhile much less with money to spend LOL It's all good now though! Hope you like it, I think you will.

Mel WTG on all the exercise and sticking with it. Awesome about the inch!! How has your eating been? Eating enough? The right things? Just wondering if that could be the reason you aren't losing pounds? I say as long as you are losing inches that something is going right. I bet the pounds will start coming off soon. Anyway I'm glad you signed up for the challenge. It should be fun, dont you think?

Hi Roxy have fun cleaning!! LOL You can come do mine now too!!

Hi Ricci glad you could check in!

Ho Spryng, sorry about the mistake. I'm sure everything is fine though!! I miss chatting with ya!

Ok I really need to take advantage of Bayley's nap to clean this dump! It's been so neglected since finals started so I need to get a little order here. We are going to our local Christmas tree lighting tonight so that should be fun. Everyone sign up for the challenge if you can! I think it is going to be so great! OK TTYL

12-03-2004, 06:03 PM
Good morning ladies!! I have 20 minutes to spare before my daughter and the 2 boys I watch come home. They have a half day today. Today I have a total of 7 kids. My husband came home last night and brought our son a beautiful Tonka fire truck. It does everything you can imagine!! My husband wanted him to open it last night but I made him put it up til Christmas. MEN!! LOL!! We are finally going to decorate this weekend. The girls are really excited. It's snowing here today and freezing..BBRR..

I weigh myself tomorrow, I know I've lost weight because some of my clothes that were too tight are getting loose. I'll let you know tomorrow...I haven't exercised today but I will..I am on a mission. My goal is to lose at least 20 pounds by Valentine's Day(mine and hubby's anniversary). We are planning to go back to the Poconos in PA this year. It's gorgeous out there. We stay at the Caesar's Palace in a honeymoon suite. All the suites have a fire place, a heart shaped pool, Bose radio, a oval bed, hot tubs,some have champagne glass shaped jacuzzis. and some of the suites are 3 levels. It's absolutely breath taking. It's expensive but so worth, my goal is to look gorgeous for my huband that weekend.

Crystal~ I'm so sorry you didn't sleep good last night. I know what you mean about the braxton hicks contractions..With my second daughter I had contractions from 29 weeks on. They had to stop her from coming 3 times..She ended up being 4 days overdue. Before you know it she will be here.

Michelle~HI!! I love the idea of the challenge!! I'm really excited about it.

Spryng~ I hope your hubby comes home tonight. My husband came home last night. I'm so happy for you that it's Friday!! Have a great weekend.

Well it's now 5pm and I have to get ready for my home interior decorating party my Pastor's wife is throwing. My husband is taking the kids out tonight to look at Christmas lights and out to dinner while I'm at my party. The girls are very excited. All you ladies have a wonderful weekend!! I'll check back in the morning.

12-03-2004, 06:28 PM
MIchelle~ That's great news about the adoption!! YAY!!! When are you planning on starting the challenge??

Jill~ I'm so glad you'll get a break from school soon. When you go back in Janurary I'll be starting again..LOL!!

Roxy~ You're a real busy lady today!! Hopefully your weekend won't be quite as hetic.

12-03-2004, 08:28 PM
Just wanted to pop in and say THANK YOU to Chris!!! I got my present today and I LOVE IT!!! I was just sitting here earlier thinking "I really hope Chris gets me some slippers cuz mine are SO ratty!" LOL So I got some slippers a really cute anklet and she sent some clips for Bayley. I needed some more stuff for her hair so bad so THANKS!!!! She is wearing one right now and I have my slippers and the anklet on. I think it was such a great idea to exchange gifts, it just made my day! Anyway we need to go eat so we can go to the Christmas tree lighting later. SEE YA!!!

12-03-2004, 08:31 PM
Me back again......I am confused. As far as the points being given for the activities...100 crunchies etc...are those WW points? Just curious.
My day ended pretty much ok, except now I am pretty much ready to collapse.Just waiting for Dd to make her way home from college for the weekend.
Guess I'd better go.......see ya tomorrow.

12-03-2004, 08:55 PM
Hello all!
Just a flyby for me, but I wanted to say hello and let Penny know I mailed her gify yesterday afternoon (did I post that already???! I'm so tired tonight so I can't remember)
Also, yes DH does have a dedicated route but it doesn't get him home everynight. He only gets sunday's off, but this week he will get saturday and sunday off and possibly this monday!! :) So I'm excited about that.
Well, I wish I could stay and get personal but I'm am exausted, long day at work and my brain was on overload, lol... let me just tell you, for those of you who carry two insurance companies you make our job reallly really hard! LOL! COB (coordination of benefits) is so hard and really isn't worth it, lol. So we went over that today and now I have a head ache, lol. PLus my big medical terminology is monday so I need to start studying it also.
Well, better go! TTYL!

12-03-2004, 08:57 PM
Ginny as for the points given those are for the biggest loser challenge only they have nothing to do with WW at all. It is a way of rewarding for doing the activity challenges. :) I hope you get a good nights sleep!!

My yugi ran away tonight and we haven't found him yet we've been out looking for him for 3 hours, he slipped under the fence when we put the dogs out to go to the bathroom :( I am so sad I hope someone calls and says they found him. I already placed an ad in the paper to run for a week. I also called the radio stations and the police but animal control was closed so I couldn't get a hold of them. Please pray that someone calls or that he comes home or that this is just a bad dream and I will wake up soon :(

Oh Kristin, I got your gift tonight and I LOVE it!!! It totally cheered me up!! Kristin made me a beautiful holiday wreath, which I've been looking for one at the store that I liked and the one you made is wonderful!!!! I love the purse and the footies too!!! You are so awesome!!! Thank youuuu!!! Thank you thank you!

Okay I'm gonna go, I gotta work tonight.

12-03-2004, 11:31 PM
Hello ladies!

Sorry I've been MIA for almost 2 days now. Between scouts and dh working, then I had running to do today....ughhh!!! Tonight we have been cleaning the living room so dh can expand the entertainment center and then tomorrow we will get it put together and rearrange the living room to make room for the Christmas tree. Plus I get some of the furniture that has accumulated out of here, like the coffee table we don't use and dh's desk that goes to the gun shop.

Would love to get personal but dh is needing my help.

I'm gonna have to think on the challenge since my digital camera still isn't fixed yet so therefore I wouldn't have a way to take weekly pics unless I bought a disposable every week and used the whole thing on worthless pics just to use it up and get it developed. Michelle, would it work to do a pic every 3-4 weeks during the challenge? Maybe that way we could see a bigger difference in them. I REALLY need to send my camera in, it's just a matter of getting it packed up and mailed :o .


12-04-2004, 12:16 AM
Michelle!!!! I hope you find Yugi quickly!!

Hi all...bidding on Ebay and I've got about 9 minutes to go!! I hate this part!

12-04-2004, 08:31 AM
starting a new thread