09-06-2004, 01:57 PM
Hi I am new to the site and was wandering if there is anyone from Virginia looking for a buddy, I have lost 105 pounds so far and I still have 30 to go. Is there anyone who wants to be buddy's out there?
Support Groups - Virginia
View Full Version : Virginia
09-06-2004, 01:57 PM
Hi I am new to the site and was wandering if there is anyone from Virginia looking for a buddy, I have lost 105 pounds so far and I still have 30 to go. Is there anyone who wants to be buddy's out there?
12-28-2004, 02:47 PM
I am in Virginia and i would like to lose about 100 lbs! I have just started, and you must be so motivated. I would like to be your buddy if you dont think i will slow you down!
12-28-2004, 08:53 PM
Just moved to VA Beach myself. Still trying to lose a final few, it's just that my schedule is so hectic these days that I can't always get in exercise on schedule. But I can be a good motivator. :D
12-31-2004, 12:46 PM
Hey! I'm in Virginia as well! AND I'm in search of motivation!
Congratulations to Lynn and AlmostHeaven on the losses! YOU might be the ones that could help FIX my brain!
I have allowed myself to be swallowed up by my work stress and I've regained nearly 25 of the pounds that I'd lost! I've also allowed myself to STOP exercising due to the time involved! ARGHHH! I know what to do...I just can't seem to make ME be the priority!
Almostheaven...I've read some of your posts! You ARE very motivating! :) TALK to me! LOL Kick me in the pants!
I have 16 weeks until I turn 40. I currently weigh 205 (Christmas was a great excuse for eating like a slob!) This time last year I weighed 172. (Which wasn't great...but I was headed to my goal....160 (which is my goal...everything else says that I should weigh less, but I figured it was a REASONABLE goal!).....Now I'm back over 200....
I know that I am in control. I just need to LIVE it again!
Thanks for listening to my babble!
12-31-2004, 05:00 PM
Well Hatteras, which part of VA do you live in? I'm wondering if you're close enough so I can reach you with my foot. More effective kicking that way. :D
I try to motivate. I'm hoping I can motivate both my sister and neice, who are both steadily approaching the 300 zone, with lots of health complications. My own motivation was just in getting out of breath trying to tie my shoes. I wasn't yet 40, I had knee problems, back problems, and just tying shoes was a strain? No thanks. I enjoy living too much to do that to myself. I decided life WILL begin at 40, and I had to do something about it.
You can do it too. Concentrate on how you felt last year at 172 and how you feel now. And when you reach your goal, you'll feel even better than you did at 172. Do you want to feel how you do now for the rest of your life? Keep the differences in those two feelings at the front of your mind as a reminder of what you are gaining from losing the weight.
12-31-2004, 07:29 PM
Hey Heaven! Thanks for writing back! AND thanks for the words of encouragement! :)
I'm on the Middle Peninsula....which if you're new to the area...you are clueless about! ;) I live in Gloucester County. I'm the better part of an hour north of you!
(Guess you, um, "enjoyed" the snowfall last week that made national news! LOL Actually where I am, we REALLY had newsworthy snow... over 9 inches in a single day...but alas, VaBch got all the NEWS coverage! Coastal Va isn't pretty when it snows now is it?! :) )
I am thrilled to have your boot in my butt! (While that doesn't sound, um, RIGHT... I am *SURE* that you know what I mean!) Besides being all wrapped up in motherhood (mannnn, nothing like a baby or 2 to make you to forget that YOU exist! I adore my children ...wwell..on most days! LOL BUT...I woke up about 2 years ago wondering WHO I was and WHO THE BLIMP in the mirror is?!) and having a very stressful consuming job (I teach school!) .... I had a hysterectomy several years back. I was totally disabled from that surgery (and other surgery done at the same time!) and was totally unable to exercise for nearly 5 months (not like I was really exercising, but..I couldn't even get to the kitchen easily!). When all of that was said and done, I had ballooned to my all time high of 240. I can NOT and will NOT ever see those numbers on my scale! I can NOT and will NOT ever see that face in the mirror again! EVER!
I no longer have those aches and pains just trying to move that I did when I was wearing a size 22 pants (never did get the size 22 boobs! Much to my dh's chagrin!).
I know what you mean about breathing and tying shoes being an effort!
Last fall I had the most amazing time on a shopping trip with my dearest friend (she never has had a weight problem...she is bullimic.....OMG! OTHER issues for sure! We help each other's brains!!) from the 3rd grade.... I had to buy EVERYthing new! It was truly THE best weekend of my life...well...the best weekend that I've ever spent without my dh (and family), of course! ;) Long story short...without the gory excuses..... most of what I purchased that weekend doesn't fit me any longer!
I have tasted what thin (Ok..so 172 isn't thin...but MANNNN it was THIN for me!! :)) tastes like! I am determined to fit into those pants again! I am determined to need a smaller size!
You are right... I don't want to feel like this ..... I want to feel the way I did the FIRST time I slid into a pair of size 12's in 20 years! (I stood in the dressing room calling one my Dearest/Meanest Cheerleader! Who cried along with me!)
"If you want to be somebody else, change your mind!"
I am in control of this! Thanks for reminding me! Please keep that boot kicking! My butt and brain both need it!
:) I *AM* in control!
12-31-2004, 07:51 PM
9 inches would actually be a walk in the park, seeing as I moved from New Hampshire. Lived less than 4 hours from Canada. Now you wanna talk about some snow.... :D
I actually had a whole day scheduled on Sunday the 26th. So, like a normal day back home, I headed out to get in a tan session at the tanning salon, pick up some items at Sally's, get a set of keys copied, and head to Wal*Mart. The keybooth was closed, tanning was closed with a hastily scrawled "Closed due to weather" sign in the door, and Sally's was closed. I said forget it and went home. Would be my luck that they closed the 24 hour Wal*Mart. LOL
I think we got about 3 feet of snow one night in New Hampshire, and I made my usual trip to Ruby Tuesdays and they had a sign that they were closing due to the weather. I believe we were supposed to get something like 5 feet by the time it was over. But what the heck...we didn't have that much yet. Must have been out-of-staters running the new Rubys. :D
I made up my mind as I lost my weight. I bought new clothes each time I dropped about two sizes. So it was hard with clothing for awhile, usually everything was a bit too large for the most part. But each time I replaced my clothing, I gave away all the old stuff that no longer could be worn to Goodwill. I had no intentions of ever wearing them again. And I will never settle for a larger size now. If my pants get too tight, I will have to hit the wagon hard and shed a few pounds. But I feel if I justify buying just one size larger at any time, that it will make it easier to justify the next and so on.
Much to my DH's chagrin too...the boobs were the first to go. I was in a 42D and now wear a 34B. I didn't WANT to lose it THERE. Whaaaaaaa
As for the kids, I just had one myself and she's all grown up now, and grown out. She had a bad role model. Now I'm hoping to undo that bad teaching. She has a lot of health issues herself, and weighs around 260. But she's in another state so I can't be a daily influence. I did buy her a set of the WATP tapes while I was visiting, but she admits she's not been sticking with them. :(
12-31-2004, 09:26 PM
Me ..AGAIN! :)
I had noticed the NH in your "sidebar location thingy"....and so the "enjoyed" and other snow comments were meant in the MOST of sarcastic terms! (Sorry you couldn't hear the tone in my voice...otherwise, you'd have KNOWN for SURE how I meant it! LOL) My dh is from Indiana via Maine...and so he continues to remind me about what SNOW is supposed to look and be like...and well....coastal Virginia blizzards are NOT it! LOL He has very little patience for VaDrivers as well as places that roll up the sidewalks at the very mention of the word snow! BUT... and this is not me being sarcastic... get accustomed to everything being closed up if 1 flake of snow is falling! AND watch out because there are 2 types of drivers here.... the kind who have NO clue about how to drive in snow and the kind who are SNOW driving experts! Trouble is...the roads are not treated / plowed / yadda like they are where the SNOW driving experts come from! Things get hairy on 64 any day.... but when it snows....GOODGAWD stay off the road! ;)
I felt true defeat this fall when I went to Walmart and bought 2 pairs of pants. Walmart...I didn't want the pants to be "good" pants...AND I had $zilch$ that I wanted to put into new fat pants. I *HAD* to have something to wear to school.... and defeated is a nice word for how out of control and sick I felt! I still alternate between those two pairs of pants..... and I refuse to buy anymore! :) I've got LOTS of good clothes that I will soon fit into! :)
WATP tapes are how I got my lard butt moving! AND they are going to be how I get my lard butt moving AGAIN! :) I sometimes get sick of listening to LS's syrup.... but, you know, sometimes she is the only one who believes that I can do it! LOL Sick, huh?! I am greatful that I found her tapes as I am more than sure that I will NEVER walk into a gym..... NEVER is a LONGGGG time, I know! Perhaps some day I will feel different.... maybe! NOTTT!
12-31-2004, 10:12 PM
Yeah, my hubby was all worried about me not knowing how to drive in the snow "here". He said "this isn't New Hampshire snow." Snow is snow. It's slick, it's wet, it's cold, and it's blinding white...until all the cars mush it up, then it's even slicker. You don't pull out fast, you keep major distance between you and guy in the 4 wheel drive who thinks he knows what he's doing but is sliding all over the place, you shift down to slow rather than slam the brakes, you tap the brakes rather than slam them, and you turn into any skid. Oh...and you pray that the guy in the 4 wheel drive doesn't have a buddy coming up beside you. LOL!
But I actually only saw one minor (1 truck) accident that day. There was a much worse accident yesterday that had nearly all 8 lanes of Independence Blvd. shut down. And that's on clear roads. People here seem to drive like they're in the Indy 500 or something.
01-01-2005, 11:27 AM
Happy New Year!
I overindulged this morning. I stayed in bed way tooo long this morning! It was nearly 9:45 when I decided to MOVE and get a shower! Yummm.... My vacation will be over very soon (Monday!) and this late morning will be BUT a sweet memory! I will begin counting my days until Spring Break soon! LOL
Made it thru last night with zero alcohol! Nibbled on a "bad for me" tray for 5 bites and then said "Enough, thanks!" I had planned to nibble, did, and stopped! :) I also got in all of my water yesterday! (And spent considerable time in the bathroom for it! I know! I know! My body will get accustomed to it! LOL)
Yes. Every thing and everybody goes 10000 mph in your part of the state. I grew up in Newport News........and while it isn't VaBch...it is MUCH crazier than it once was! Where we live is not like that. In fact, it gets frustrating sometimes that people won't go fast ENOUGH! We live in an area at least 75% more rural than the MOST country sections of Pungo! I am a total spazz when I get in THAT VaBch/Norfolk traffic! Watch out for the crazies over there!
I am going to try a new "whatever". I am a scale freak. Tell me to put the thing away until the end of the month OR some other long amount of time! I am not too sure that I can do it.... BUT I've heard that getting the scale "off my back" is a good idea! Whatcha think?
Today I dust off the WATP tapes. It won't be pretty, but I WILL do whatever is 30 minutes! (1 mile, I think!)
Anyway....thanks for the chatter! You're keeping me honest! :)
01-01-2005, 01:32 PM
Ok, so...put away the scale. LOL That's easier said than done. I jump on it too much too. But if it's up out of sight, out of mind. You can get depressed watching a scale too closely and not seeing it move "fast enough". But if you only weigh in say weekly or bi-weekly, you'll see a bigger progress each time, which will lift your spirits. Hmmm "lift your spirits". Now that sounds like something Leslie would say.
As for 30 minutes, that's gonna cost you a two mile walk. ;)
01-01-2005, 10:45 PM
I had to wait until I had done my "homework" before replying....
Water - YEP! (Just how much am I supposed to drink?!)I've been drinking 6 to 8 glasses?!
TwoMilesWATPwith2poundsInEachHandWhenDirected! - YEP! Sweating like a piggy BUT GRINNING from ear to ear!! (It had been since April.....so it wasn't pretty! LOL)
ControlledEating - YEP! Lunch got a wee bit out of hand...but I reeled it back before it was a total MESS up!
and finally - Scales put away until January 13th! THAT one is gonna be hard!
Tomorrow I attack planning for the week AND journaling! I also need to get a new battery for my pedometer and unfold (and dust!) the treadmill!
I also need to organize my collection of exercise tapes! AND find the tape measure!
I've got a lot of stuff to do, huh?! :)
Thanks for listening! I keep looking at your stats! You've done sooo well! :)
again.... thank you!
01-02-2005, 11:21 AM
Hi all you Virginians:
I am a true Virginian. Born in Newport News, Virginia. Moved to Phoebus, which is now called Hampton. Only lived for a short time in Williamsburg, Va., and in Grafton (York County, Va.).
Was a WW for over 3 years and never reached goal. Then joined a Hampton TOPS group. Still yo-yoing. It gets harder to keep it off as one gets older so you young chicks, get to work!
Freddie (an elderly female)
01-02-2005, 01:44 PM
I was also born in Newport News...as was my mother! Don't meet too many of US!
Did you graduate from a N.N. high school? Do you have the wonderful N.N. accent?! LOL My inlaws just moved from Grafton to Williamsburg/Florida (They've become snowbirds!) *small world!*
So tell me about TOPS. I've got a cyber friend who is being VERY successful with their program! I'm trying to get out of the YoYo cycle.... THIS time IS IT! :)
Thanks for your words of wisdom!
01-02-2005, 02:25 PM
I never watch my water. I pretty much switched to water as my main drink of choice. I'll drink a diet soda or ice tea as a treat with dinner on ocassion, but I mainly drink water all the time. So I don't measure it. I do know I go through anywhere from 3 to 4 24 oz. sport bottles a day.
Freddie, my hubby's from VA. We just took a drive after church this morning out one of his old haunts and well...they tore it all down. I keep hearing that "They Paved Paradise and Put Up a Parking Lot" theme song. The club he used to play drums at is gone. All his old friends, moved away. And seems everytime he decides to take a short cut...they've closed off the end of that cut through. LOL We've run into more deadends that way. :D
01-02-2005, 04:24 PM
My husband is also a drummer! Now both of my ds are following in his footsteps.... like they had any choice! He's been feeling sorta outta sorts ......same kind of issues regarding changes. Dead ends can be fun! ......all depends! ;) Kinda goes along with your Tansaafl!
I've gotten part of the stuff I need "to do" done!
Anyway... I'm over 40 ounces so far for water.... guess that is good since it is around 3:00!
I can feel that Leslie and I spent time together yesterday! :) Not bad...just noticeable! That is a good thing!
01-02-2005, 04:35 PM
Hi Mermaid etc.:
I graduated from Hampton High (class of 1940); class of 1944 from the College of William and Mary. There was only one high school in Hampton then. I think there are five now (probably a few in Newport News too). Newport News High School is no longer so they don't have the Thanksgiving Day Rival Game anymore.
My TOPS VA#309, Hampton meets Thursday morning with weigh-in from 8:30 to 9:30 am and then a meeting from 9:30 to 10:30. One of the members might give a 20 minute lecture or talk after the business meeting but we should have our closing at 10:30. Sometimes we have a guest speaker but I would rather not have them because they seem to go over the alloted time. I am assistant weight recorder. I was co-leader for a year. Our dues are $3 per month for the local chapter and $20 per year for the TOPS Headquarters. Once you become a KOPS (Keep Off Weight Sensibly), dues are $2 per month so you see it 's less expensive that Weight Watchers. Some of our members belong to WW as well as TOPS, which is legal now. When I first joined TOPS I also went to WW until someone told me that they could kick you out of TOPS if you went to a profit-making place . That rule has now been changed but I don't believe I need two places to go to a week to keep me honest.
01-02-2005, 08:17 PM
:) Hello again Freddie! Both of my parents went to Warwick. Class of 55(for sure) and 57(I think!)! There are a BUNCH of HS in Newport News these days! Many more than when I was a student there! (I used to teach for NNPS but have recently, after 17 years, changed school systems!) I graduated from Denbigh HS (in NN, too!) in 83. My mother and I both graduated from Christopher Newport back in the days when it was a College and not too big for it's "britches"! I asked about schools hoping that you might somehow know my parents! :)
Thanks for the info on TOPS. It sounds interesting and certainly more affordable than WW! I might have to look into a local chapter! How many people attend your meetings? (I mean, are these groups large?!) I've NEVER attended any sort of weigh-in.... do you get used to it?! (And I've always weighed myself at home NUDE! Think they would object at the meeting! LOL...JUST kidding! ;) ) I've always picked Thursdays as my official weigh ins... I like having most of a week to recooperate from any evil doings that might have "happened" over the weekends!
......I'm off to get everyone's clothes ready for the week! If I don't plan it NOW, mornings can be VERY CRAZY!
Thanks for the chatter!
01-02-2005, 10:19 PM
Hatteras, hubby was a professional drummer for about 30 years. He's played nearly every club that existed (not the ones that exist now LOL) in Hampton Roads. He's played with a few big names as well and for some TV jingles. We have fun with the comments we get on the autographed picture of Elvis hanging on our wall. Especially after people find out that the autograph is from Elvis' drummer in the background. LOL! My favorite though was getting backstage passes to see Weird Al from his drummer John "Bermuda" Schwartz. ;)
And Freddie, my hubby also went to William and Mary. I believe he went either around the 70's or 80's. He was in the Navy in the early to mid 70's and I'm not sure how soon after that he enter W&M. Speaking of the Navy, he was actually a member of the Navy Steel Drum Band for 4 years. Spent most of his time with them in New Orleans.
01-02-2005, 11:35 PM
Yikes! :) Logged on to tell the world about Day 2....and NOW have so much to discuss about drumming! LOL
First Day 2 went well! Water, exercise, food, and plans for tomorrow (both school AND food AND clothes!) all done! :) Alarm will be set for 5 so that I can get up and do my exercising BEFORE the day gets away like today tried to! :)
NOW... Drumming! How exciting! My dh has played the drums forEVER...but...alas..not professionally! LOL He did play with a band in some clubs up in and around Williamsburg but those days ended with the birth of our first child! Had he been REALLY paying the bills...well then, maybe I wouldn't have whined quite so much!
He still plays with a band...in a basement...at least once a week! Hours in the basement! Keeps him happy and they will NEVER come out of the basement without first getting a new singer! So, it is rather "safe"! :) LOL
At our house Neil Peart is GAWD! Zildjian is our oldest's middle name! (not really!) LOL Our love of "GOOD" music has caused our children to be rather odd with the school kids! They've been to see Rush twice! Our youngest can tell the difference between a Sabbath song and an Ozzy! (Isn't momma proud?! LOL BUT CAN HE multiply?! He's getting there!) The oldest is currently listening to Led Zepplin, Guns and Roses (yuck!) and Def Leppard ...to the point that I'm ABOUT ready to outlaw Zepplin...who'd have "thunk it"?! :) Weird Al is also adored by the testosterone crowd here at home!
The boys will enjoy hearing your stories! Steel drums.... GEESH! DH has lusted after those for years... He is a mad man when we visit the shop over here... They endulge him and I usually end up in the car! The boys spend hours in the attic with their drum set and electric guitar! DS1 plays percussion in the MiddleSchool band! And dh works non stop on their percussion stuff! (Cracks me up...I was the PTA mom...and now suddenly..He is Mr.BandBooster!) We are searching for a *good* local private teacher with very little luck!
Drums.... they are a big part of my life... BUT they've never paid the bills! Maybe with the kiddos! LOL (The kids will want to know.... What was Weird Al like?)
Sorry didn't mean to get carried away.... :) Hope you understand! hehehe
Will be back to work tomorrow.... but I'll be back eventually!
01-03-2005, 12:48 PM
Tell the kids that Weird Al was like a zombie who couldn't keep his eyes open by the time we saw him. We spent awhile chatting it up with Bermuda after the concert and waited until everyone else had finished their meet and greet. We saw Al for a moment then he was off to the bus to eat pizza and crash. LOL
As for the drummers...All about hubby: http://www.techtrek.com/drumbo/.
When was your hubby playing and can you mention the band name publicly here? Hubby played Hampton Roads between the 60's and 80's, not counting his time in New Orleans. He may have heard of his band. Hubby played in the local groups "The Mockers", "The Boat Rockers", "Stingrays", "TOB", and "Thor".
As far as the names, he's opened for Pat Benetar and filled in with Molly Hatchet and Chubby Checker for a week or two each, tagged along on the Guitar Masters Tour with Chet Atkins and Elvis' drummer Larry Londin. But he's spent his life waiting for Alex to break his arm so he can go play with Eddie. LOL!
He loves a wide array of music. That's my way of saying he owns all the albums by "The Beetles", "Van Halen", and "Frank Sinatra". ROFL! He's played country, rock, jazz, you name it.
And now a story down memory lane for a chuckle...
We have a friend who, every time we'd go to visit, would put on some obscure CD and play "Guess that band". He finally managed to stump hubby one night. He spent 2 hours trying to guess that song. Now this friend, living in a cabin in the middle of nowhere, where the well runs dry, girls to the bathroom on the left, guys to the porch on the right. So while hubby's standing out back of the kitchen window in the rain, 2 hours later, he yells through the open window...
And that was the name of the band on that CD. LOL!
01-03-2005, 11:07 PM
Thanks for sharing so much! A drummer who paid the bills with the drums instead of making NEW bills! :) LOVE IT! The oldest DS was quite excited and VERY interested in reading over my shoulder AND looking at "Drumbo"'s photos! LOL I had to grin when he "got" the reference to Alex and Eddie before I could explain! (I've sorta always dreamed that Alex or Valerie would break *something* and Eddie would need *ME*! LOL) I'm sure that our trip to your dh's site won't be our last! :) My dh hasn't been home to show/talk to about this, but I'm SURE that he will also be taking a look! :)
I'm glad to hear that others have the same WIDDDEEE tastes in music! Our collection houses some rather contrasting tastes! Abba to Frank Zappa with a bunch of Patsy Cline in between! YIKES! ;) (While DS can identify Ozzy, he can also identify ClairDeLune and Moonlight Sonata! He does own an Ozzy shirt...but sadly, not any Wolfgang shirt, yet! hehehe)
anywayyyy.... I am sitting with throbbing legs. I had forgotten what it was like to stand on concrete. Welcome back to school! It also did or didn't help that I walked a mile last night, 2 miles this morning before school and another mile after school today with a friend! (I loved walking and talking.....guess you can imagine! hehehe) I'm nearly certain that the concrete is what has caused me the greatest pains!
I drank 80 ounces of water before I decided that I really didn't neeeeed to measure it anymore for today! :)
I ate well and within my WW point limits.
I have my food and clothing (for the family!) planned for tomorrow.
I'm going to take a Tylenol and a shower...set my alarm to walk again in the morning and call it a night!
Thanks again for sharing the photos! (We forgot to look at Weird Al.....but will!) Don't you just LOVE this winter weather we're having?! We'll pay for it come February! Who would have thought that we would need our snowshoes and shorts (well...not quite...but ...nearly!) within weeks of each other!
01-05-2005, 08:49 AM
hey there ladies!!
I am in VA too. :D
01-05-2005, 11:11 AM
Which part Elizabeth? Anyone in VA Beach?
01-05-2005, 10:25 PM
Hey Hatteras Mermaid: My TOPS group has 33 members. Just about all show up for weigh-in. One member even has her husband bring her in a wheel chair. She didn't come for the last few weeks and someone checked and found out she hadn't been feeling too well. Two members come from Williamsburg (which is about 30 miles away). I live just a couple of miles from our meeting place. When I first joined, I checked and found out that there were a lot of groups meeting within 25 miles of me, but I like the one I picked. First it is closer to me and second, I like going in daylight hours. Most of the others meet in the early evening, which is okay in the summer but right now it would make me have to drive when it gets dark. Get on the TOPS site and I think there is a place to put your zip code to see what is available near you. You must attend one meeting before you can join.
01-06-2005, 06:48 AM
Hello Virginia friends! :)
:wave: hi, elizabeth!
:wave: hi, heaven! (I've done my PLAN! WhoooHooo!)
:wave: hi, freddie! If school ever slows down...I may just have to check out a TOPS group! 33! Wow! It must be a very special group if you've got them coming 30 miles to be part of it! :)
Gotta run ..... morning schedule doesn't give me time, sadly, to run my mouth! :)
take care.... I'm so confused about this weather!!!
01-06-2005, 03:06 PM
I'm so confused about this weather!!!
So what's confusing about it? It's 70 and sunny. I can live with that. :D
01-06-2005, 03:25 PM
Moving this thread to Support groups. You VA Chicks have bonded!
01-06-2005, 08:44 PM
Thanks Ruth! :)
So.... the week is nearly done and I'm doing what I'm supposed to.... But I do need a weekend to get caught up on my sleep!
It was rainy today. Warmish. Windy... I mean like March windy! Yesterday it wasn't 50 degrees .... THIS is what confuses me....
So will the other VaChicks find their way here?!
vBulletin® v3.6.7, Copyright ©2000-2015, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Search Engine Optimization by vBSEO 3.3.2