Chicks in Control - IE - Dysfunctional Eaters




View Full Version : IE - Dysfunctional Eaters


Wannabeskinny
05-06-2014, 03:54 PM
I've grown perceptive of dysfunctional eaters around me and amazed by how many different kinds of eaters there are!! I never paid attention to this sort of thing before, I've always had a very clear picture of how I wanted to see myself in the future as an eater and I finally discovered that IE is the only way that I could get there. I find myself very uncomfortable around disordered eaters in general. Disordered eaters have a way of penetrating my mood or psyche, their issues are obvious.

Such as:

- My friend X who criticizes herself before she puts any morsel of food in her mouth, every single time! "Not like I NEED to eat this sandwich but oh well" or "Can I steal one of your fries? I don't know how I'm gonna push these last 4lbs if I keep eating this way." It's like every time you eat with her she feels tremendous guilt and self consciousness about eating. She's thin by the way.

- The guy in our group who is a fitness geek who is always talking about protein, ratios, carbs, and drinks powders who's every meal makes me a better person.

- The family member who eats super super fast and literally cleans her plate at every meal I've ever shared with her.

- The overweight person who barely eats in public. You swear that you have no idea how they got to be 250lbs eating so little that you just assume that they are closeted binge eaters.

And most recently I ran into a few old friends at a recent work event. Friends from my college days. three of them all in one room I was practically certain that they are anorexic, all of them! Didn't eat anything at all, picked at their food, pretending to eat and looking so frail that it made me scared.


Locke
05-06-2014, 05:26 PM
Ugh I totally understand. Most of the exposure I get to other people eating is through my job:

My boss is a disordered eater and I share and office with her so I can't really get away from it. Whenever someone brings donuts to the office she complains about how unhealthy they are and about how she's overweight. Then she eats one or two. She's constantly talking about her weight. She drinks diet coke like a fiend (a habit I'm trying to break). She's always dieting or talking about dieting. She talks about food all the time, too- a drippy cheeseburger that she ate or cocktails that she had.

Then there's there are a couple of women upstairs who are always trying to eat healthy. Beansprouts instead of noodles, no bad carbs, no red meat, no cheese, big beautiful packs of berries from whole foods that are super expensive. They're always complaining about there being donuts, candy, or pizza at the office.

Then there's super athletic bro athlete guy. He's always talking about macro ratios and clean eating. He comments on my food when it's healthy. He'll give me a thumbs up if I'm eating chicken breast, vegetables, and fruit for lunch he'll tell me "good for you!" but ignores me if I'm eating cheese, pickles, and bread.

It wouldn't be that big of a deal if people just ate what they wanted to eat (for whatever reason, disordered or not). The problem is that people talk about it. They talk about their bodies and their eating habits and it is triggering for me.

GlamourGirl827
05-06-2014, 07:48 PM
Years ago I went to a group held for people recovering from eating disorders. I was seeking help to heal from my own (starve/binge). Although ultimately, I do better and have done better working through it alone.

Anyway, one of the main commonalities was the secret keeping. Some of the people there were recovering from anorexia and/or bulimia. We all agreed that often we wanted to be alone with our disease. This manifests in many ways, but an example of something I did frequently many years ago was avoid going places that did not have "safe food" which was food I could eat without then dealing with guilt. So if my friends went out for pizza, and I knew that the place only served pizza or past dishes and friend food (not safe foods) I'd decline if I couldn't sway them to eat else where. And I never made my restaurant choice about the food! When I asked friends to change places it was because the other place was closer or cheaper, never about the food there!

But talking about it was a no no, because it drew attention to my disease and its a shameful feeling. If I went all day without eating as I often did, I didn't tell anyone. I didn't talk diet talk or anything that might be topic related to me disorder. I binged or starve and never talked about eating with anyone, for fear they would find out... It seems to me that some of the people you are talking about do not have disordered eating. They may have a preoccupation with their food or weight at this time (bathing suit season is coming) or for the ones that are very fit, it is obviously their passion. But I wouldn't go so far as to say disordered eating just because they have habits or behavior that make you uncomfortable.

In my experience ,for people that truly have eating disorders, it is not something they wave like a flag and talk about, complaining about donuts to others, or are vocal about their diet endeavors...they are usually more about hiding it from others...

Perhaps the example given of the obese person that wont eat in front of others would be this. As they will not even eat in front of others (shame??) but obviously they have a closet binge eating disorder, as you pointed out, as evident by their weight.


Wannabeskinny
05-06-2014, 10:18 PM
It may be a matter of perception but in IE alerting with guilt and shame is considered dysfunctional. Secret eating is only one aspect of dysfunctional eating. Others would be guit and shame, justifying food "well I only ate a small breakfast so it's ok if I eat this donut now," self judging, and all methods of controlling food intake such as calorie counting, food restriction or deprivation, weighing food, etc. In relation to an intuitive eater this is all dysfunctional.

Locke
05-07-2014, 01:36 AM
Intuitive eating addresses all kinds of problematic food behaviors and reasoning, not just eating disorders. There are many people who benefit from IE who don't have eating disorders but they still consider their relationship with food to be troubling.

I guess the terminology might be confusing. I can only speak for myself but I'm pretty sure that disordered eating =/= eating disorders in wannabe's original post.

Wannabeskinny
05-07-2014, 09:37 AM
Yes I should clarify, that I did not mean eating disorders, that's why I called it dysfunctional eating. What I listed above was food behaviors that are problematic. Someone who says something negative to themselves each time they put a bite of food in their mouth may not have an eating disorder, but it could mean that they have a poor relationship with food and a low self esteem - I remember this particular friend was getting married last year and had lost an extreme amount of weight, she ate so little that she constantly felt weak and even passed out a few times all in the name of losing a few pounds to look a certain way in a dress. I wouldn't say she has an eating disorder, but that is an extreme situation that is neither healthy nor sustainable - hence she has gained all that weight back since, and a little extra.

Or for example the person who is self righteous in their fitness quest, they tend to be really preachy which I take to mean that they're trying to convert other people and show them the way, and they act sort of like martyrs. These people tend to swear off certain foods in the name of everyone's health, and frankly that's not a particularly healthy relationship with food either. You don't need to demonize food in order to be fit.

Or the person who cleans their plate and eats really fast, that's also dysfunctional. It seems almost impossible to imagine that whatever amount of food a restaurant puts in front of you is the exact amount that needs to go into your stomach. It's like the border of the plate determines your eating. It seems to me that if someone is eating according to how hungry they are they'd stop at a certain point, based on the extremely large portion sizes in restaurants. That or they would still be hungry and ask for more food. But what are the chances that every bite of food is the exact amount of food your stomach needs? Your stomach can't see the food can it?

pixelllate
05-07-2014, 10:28 AM
At my fattest, people would say that I was like a vampire because I seemed to subsist on no food. I was great at secretly eating, mostly because I was ashamed to be a female glutton, it felt so socially taboo to be a woman and such a big eater. The only person who could match my eating were giant men. I would pretend to be as full as others after a normal size meal. I have a talent for eating a lot of food esp now that I don't have a thick layer of fat to weigh down my belly as I eat and I'm considering entering an eating contest cause I don't feel that shame anymore. This could be me.

http://www.northernvirginiamag.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/07/0612thomas2-365x550.jpg

GlamourGirl827
05-07-2014, 10:35 AM
Ok, I see now that you are not talking about true eating disorders. I think that the idea of dysfunctional eating is a matter of opinion, so you can list those that, in your opinion, do not have a healthy relationship with food, but is there any real evidence or literature behind it? It seems there's books about IE that say this, but there is also an entire community that think IE is complete hogwash. Actually, I frequent some fitness forums/sites and within the fitness community, especially more hard core like bodybuilding, they feel IE is an excuse for fat people to stay fat by being able to eating whatever they want. So while you are saying the health nuts counting calories, macros and micros and swearing off certain food are dysfunctional in their eating, they believe the same about you. And I'm sure they can site books they've read supporting their opinion.

I think people need to do what works for them. But I don't agree that observing and label others eating habits should be part of that journey. Do IE books say to do that? I've never read any. Do they actually tell you to notice others around you, or is that something you are doing on your own?

Do what you have to do, but know that as much as you are critiquing other people eating habits, some of them are doing the same to you. And really no one is right or wrong, I guess.

pixelllate
05-07-2014, 10:45 AM
Yup, its pretty interesting. There's a strong inclination amongst many to push for less obsession over food, more moderation, more moderate goals but at the same time, a lot of us post about food and the way we eat and the way that others eat etc probably way more than anyone else that we may define as being "too obsessive." I just think that with some of the methods and the time spent - it doesn't feel like most people (including myself) are practicing moderation and going for moderate goals, but instead are just not-very-moderately thinking about how to doo moderation for moderate goals. With all this effort, might as well go for the gold itself.

Wannabeskinny
05-07-2014, 10:52 AM
Believe me, I don't there is a person on earth that can criticize myself or my eating as much as I have lol. But thanks for trying your best to try to make me feel like crap, anytime someone calls me a fat slob is not a good day indeed.

No, IE books do not tell me to judge other people. Instead, it's more of an awakening that happens as you figure out your own body's needs. It's just seeing things from a different perspective. I always knew for example that my husband did not have an eating disorder, I knew he always ate when he was hungry and didn't eat when he wasn't hungry. Sometimes that used to bother me a lot because I couldn't relate to it. For example I would be cooking his favorite meal, pasta bolognese and he'd ask when dinner would be ready. I'd tell him 35min or so. He couldn't wait, he would literally look for food to eat immediately! And very often that snack would prevent him from eating dinner, the dinner that I made especially for him. This would p*** me off. Now I understand, he's just really in tune with his hunger, he doesn't feel well if he doesn't eat when he's hungry and doesn't feel like he should have to wait. I don't get upset about that anymore, he can always eat my pasta later or tomorrow for lunch, it's not like it's going to waste. I now respect his need to honor his hunger.

IE just makes you aware of the natural eating patterns that other people naturally engage in. Like my son, kids are naturally intuitive eaters and I've learned a lot about eating from watching my son. He eats slowly, mindfully, he only eats the things he wants to eat, you can't force him to eat if he's not hungry just "because it's dinnertime" and I'm learning a lot by the people around me who seem to be casual and not anxious around food. I've always looked up to that, I don't like be anxious or nervous around food and so I'm very sensitive to that heightened sense of anxiety in others.

It's not about judging, it's about being observant. Locke for example finds this triggering, I don't really find it triggering but I do enjoy being around strees-free eaters and feel very comfortable where as being around judgemental eaters makes me nervous - probably because it mirrors my own disordered eating which I was so ashamed of, and nobody likes to see their own bad behaviors mirrored back to them. It did not make me nervous enough not to eat anymore, but it certainly had that effect in the past.

No matter what methods we choose to use are all individual and us IEers are here to support eachother just like every one else. I would like others to participate in the IE threads but I think it's uncalled for to call someone's method hogwash or to call them lazy fat people.

Wannabeskinny
05-07-2014, 11:47 AM
Furthermore putting someone down for their dieting choices is unproductive. There is also a difference between saying "I tried xyz diet and for such and such reasons it didn't work for me" as opposed to "IE is just an excuse for people to stay fat." If I'm not doing a certain method it's because it didn't work for me, but judging someone and calling them fat and lazy and claiming that it's hogwash is pretentious, judgmental and unacceptable on a weightloss forum IMO.

magical
05-07-2014, 05:36 PM
http://www.northernvirginiamag.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/07/0612thomas2-365x550.jpg


I thought this was a picture of you at first but then I googled and found out that she is "The Black Widow". Apparently, her advantage is her skinniness itself, weighing only 98lbs.

BUT... she works to stay skinny - per Wikipedia:

"To stay in shape, Thomas has one meal a day, with lots of green vegetables and fresh fruit, and always avoids junk food. She exercises by walking on an inclined treadmill for two hours, five times per week."

atmos
05-07-2014, 06:00 PM
It's not about judging, it's about being observant.

Using terminology like "dysfunctional" and "disordered" when discussing these eating habits in your first post does sound judgmental, though. And I think that's GlamourGirl's point. If IE is working for you, that really is wonderful and great and I hope you will find this method as your ultimate success. However, when you post something like this:

It may be a matter of perception but in IE alerting with guilt and shame is considered dysfunctional. Secret eating is only one aspect of dysfunctional eating. Others would be guit and shame, justifying food "well I only ate a small breakfast so it's ok if I eat this donut now," self judging, and all methods of controlling food intake such as calorie counting, food restriction or deprivation, weighing food, etc. In relation to an intuitive eater this is all dysfunctional.

...I find this fairly judgey. For me, counting calories and tracking my macronutrient intakes works for me. It is the only thing that works for me. It would be more "dysfunctional" for me not to curb my binging behavior in response to stress and other negative stimuli through calorie counting. I can't do IE because my desire to eat isn't exactly tied into my more natural hunger signals. And counting calories, or allowing myself extra ice cream one evening because I didn't eat as high of calories earlier in the day, isn't tied to any sort of shame or guilt. It's tied to, "Oh sweet! More ice cream! Rock on!" Binging on a bucket of ice cream because I had a bad day at work, or eating an entire large pizza when I find out a family member is dying, is tied to guilt and shame.

Anyway, by the definition you give here, my eating behavior is dysfunctional, and that word has a lot of negative connotations. I'm not personally insulted, but I can see how others who, for example, count calories would be insulted by this.

Perhaps in the future you can find some other words that more accurately describe your point, assuming you didn't actually mean doing anything but eating intuitively is doing it wrong. And by your most recent response it doesn't seem you meant that. That's just how the word choice comes across.

atmos
05-07-2014, 06:01 PM
http://www.northernvirginiamag.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/07/0612thomas2-365x550.jpg

More power to you, pixellate! To me that just looks like the gut ache from h**l. :)

GlamourGirl827
05-07-2014, 07:00 PM
Its seems my post really struck a cord with you, wannabeskinny. I'm not sure how well you actually read my post, but *I* don't think that. I think I was very clear that those thoughts are ones I've read on other fitness forums. I'm simply telling you that while you seem to think (at least this is gathered by so many of your posts on IE) that IE is the only truly mentally healthy way to eat, there are many many people that think IE is, yes, hogwash. Or dysfunctional, if you prefer that term.

I never used the word judgmental, though I agree someone can perceive your post that way. I don't see the point or gain in posting about people's eating habits that you believe are dysfunctional or why you think you have the authority to label them as such. As atmos said, some people need to use these methods, to lose weight. Its not dysfunctional. Its a way to ensure that someone is taking in enough or not too many calories to either gain or lose weight. But for others calorie counting can absolutely be triggering and not a healthy behavior for them in their weight control journey. Its really a case by case basis. Like I said, no one is right or wrong.

I am being blunt about some people thinking IE is "something fat people do to stay fat", but its not *my* thoughts or words. Its out there on the internet, along with many many other things I don't believe. And I never used the word "slob" and I think you adding that in really shows that you skimmed my post and heard what you wanted to hear, and that this is a very sensitive point for you. Understandably. I have specifically google IE along with negative words to heard from people / posts that did not find it useful. I did this because I consider what I'm doing now IE. I believe that's my current practice. And I know I'm not using it to stay fat, though I will admit it slows my weight loss a lot when I do not count calories/portions etc. I'm doing it right now because calorie counting is VERY triggering for me to start restricting and under eating. And that ultimately leads to a binge. So I'm in this limbo where my IE has taken me to this current weight and I need to start counting calories, but I don't want to trigger my ED. If anything IE is the only place I can exist at peace for now.

You really need to relax a little. And read posts before replying. And stop putting words that are in *your* head into my mouth.

Wannabeskinny
05-08-2014, 09:17 AM
Anyway, by the definition you give here, my eating behavior is dysfunctional, and that word has a lot of negative connotations. I'm not personally insulted, but I can see how others who, for example, count calories would be insulted by this.

Perhaps in the future you can find some other words that more accurately describe your point, assuming you didn't actually mean doing anything but eating intuitively is doing it wrong. And by your most recent response it doesn't seem you meant that. That's just how the word choice comes across.

According to the program you're following then what I'm doing is considered wrong too, there's no way that we can align our methods. That's why I don't go into the Calorie counter threads and argue with the posters there, that's why I don't go into the carb counter threads and lecture people on the language they use or find ways to be insulted with what method they are following, I respect their need to foster their diet plans and support eachother, and so I expect that if a thread is labeled IE then I am reaching out to other IEers and should feel a level of freedom to discuss the methods we follow without having backlash from other types of dieters. According to the plan that has been set forth for me by myself and my nutritional therapist then yes, those methods that I listed of trying to control my weight have not only been ineffective but also worked against me. If I am not aware of the dysfunctional aspects of my eating patterns then I cannot work on bettering myself.

I don't wish to disclude anyone from the discussion but I also cannot alter the philosophy of my program in order to avoid insulting anyone. I don't feel insulted by calorie counters, why should anyone feel insulted by someone who is learning to be an intuitive eater??

atmos
05-08-2014, 10:52 AM
According to the program you're following then what I'm doing is considered wrong too


Not really. I don't think you're doing anything "wrong". My program is my own. For me it is a great method, and if someone was asking me for advice I would recommend what I'm doing. But as with everything, it's not for everyone.

I would never look at what you're doing and label it dysfunctional or disordered just because you're not counting calories. The problem I have is with the negative word choice. To be honest, I don't care if you think I'm dysfunctional with my eating, because I know I'm not. Words mean things, though, and I could see how others might be offended.


That's why I don't go into the Calorie counter threads and argue with the posters there, that's why I don't go into the carb counter threads and lecture people on the language they use or find ways to be insulted with what method they are following, I respect their need to foster their diet plans and support eachother, and so I expect that if a thread is labeled IE then I am reaching out to other IEers and should feel a level of freedom to discuss the methods we follow without having backlash from other types of dieters.


I hang around the Chicks in Control boards because as I mentioned before, I have problems with binge eating. I also like to click on Today's Posts and see what's current. For example, I tend to read the IP forums a lot even though I know that diet is not for me. I like to see what's going on everywhere.

If there was a calorie counting thread where someone said something along the lines of, "IE is dysfunctional because there's no control. They just eat whatever and whenever they want," then I think you would be fully justified in popping in and saying, "Actually, it's not dysfunctional. Let me tell you more about my experience. By the way, dysfunctional is a strongly negative word and I don't appreciate being labeled as such."

You're free to discuss the methods you follow. As a member of the 3FC message boards, I'm also free to point out that I think your word choice for describing other diet methods carries negative and judgmental connotations.


According to the plan that has been set forth for me by myself and my nutritional therapist then yes, those methods that I listed of trying to control my weight have not only been ineffective but also worked against me. If I am not aware of the dysfunctional aspects of my eating patterns then I cannot work on bettering myself.


This is MUCH different than labeling these patterns as dysfunctional overall. For example, I can understand that counting calories can have a very negative effect on someone in recovery from an eating disorder. That doesn't mean that the method itself is dysfunctional, or that anyone counting calories is eating dysfunctionally.

For you these methods don't work, and IE does. I get that. I truly think it's great that you've found a method that is working for you.

But the way you presented it was that anyone who doesn't use IE is dysfunctional. I think your point was that anything other than IE is dysfunctional for you. That's a much different statement.


I don't wish to disclude anyone from the discussion but I also cannot alter the philosophy of my program in order to avoid insulting anyone. I don't feel insulted by calorie counters, why should anyone feel insulted by someone who is learning to be an intuitive eater??


I think I pointed out earlier I was not insulted personally. And I don't think anyone is insulted that you are learning to eat intuitively. That doesn't make sense. But I can see how being called a dysfunctional eater for counting calories could insult someone, though.

I believe this whole issue stems down to a communication mishap, but please correct me if I'm still not understanding your initial point. I believe your point is:

"For me personally, any method of controlling my food intake other than IE is dysfunctional and can lead me into disordered eating. I've been learning a lot by observing the habits of others. I can see my own dysfunction reflected in some of them, and it's making me uncomfortable to face it head on. Watching my son and other kids eat intuitively has been helping me overcome these problems."

Worded that way, it sounds like you're starting to get into the psychology of how you eat in a way that will continue to lead to health. That's great! I wish you continued success.

But your initial word choices came across as:

"I've been watching people do x, y, and z. These people are doing it wrong and are really dysfunctional and some are even anorexic. Counting calories is dysfunctional across the board. IE is the only non-dysfunctional eating plan."

From your follow up responses, I don't think this is how you meant it, but that is how it came across initially. That's why a couple of us have take exception to what you said. Not because we're IE bashing. If it works for you, awesome. Keep at it.

pixelllate
05-08-2014, 11:13 AM
I agree atmos - I think that its important to practice what you preach, or don't preach it at all. If someone say things like "I respect other methods, but this is what works for me" and then acts otherwise or says that they don't like to judge people, but makes harsh statements all the time, it makes those words meaningless.

Oh and magical ABSOLUTELY!! Black Widow works like crazy, I can't imagine the discipline of competitive eaters. I would never do it as a career I'd suffer from so much indigestion and the extremity would just be too much. I just wanted to try it for 1 contest. Maybe not chili!

GlamourGirl827
05-08-2014, 11:56 AM
Well said atmos. Wannabe, this is not the first time for me that I've pointed out to you the way that you word things can sometimes come across in this way. However, I thin atmos did an excellent job rewording it to express what it seems you were trying to say without it inadvertently being offensive to others. I'm not saying I was personally offended.

It is a two way street, and saying what was said in you OP about other peoples eating habits, how they are dysfunctional, but then throwing a bit of a tantrum when I pointed out that their are people that think IE is wrong, is a a little hypocritical, don't you think?

Wannabeskinny
05-08-2014, 12:49 PM
If there was a calorie counting thread where someone said something along the lines of, "IE is dysfunctional because there's no control. They just eat whatever and whenever they want," then I think you would be fully justified in popping in and saying, "Actually, it's not dysfunctional. Let me tell you more about my experience. By the way, dysfunctional is a strongly negative word and I don't appreciate being labeled as such."
Maybe you feel comfortable doing this but in reality 3FC strongly discourages people from visiting subforums with the intention to argue against their method. It's a losing situation anyway to enter a forum in which I do not find any support just to argue against it and set records straight, there's no need for that. The subforums are for support within dieting philosophies. I've seen some derogatory references to the "eat anything you want crowd" in a subforum but I don't participate in their discussions. The moderators wouldn't allow it and I wouldn't want to be rude either. IEers don't have a subforum, we label our threads IE and try to carve out our own little subforum this way. Perhaps you were not aware of this.

You're free to discuss the methods you follow. As a member of the 3FC message boards, I'm also free to point out that I think your word choice for describing other diet methods carries negative and judgmental connotations. That's what moderators are for.

This is MUCH different than labeling these patterns as dysfunctional overall. For example, I can understand that counting calories can have a very negative effect on someone in recovery from an eating disorder. Yes! It exacerbates my eating disorder!That doesn't mean that the method itself is dysfunctional, or that anyone counting calories is eating dysfunctionally. Never said it was.

For you these methods don't work, and IE does. I get that. I truly think it's great that you've found a method that is working for you.

But the way you presented it was that anyone who doesn't use IE is dysfunctional. I think your point was that anything other than IE is dysfunctional for you. That's a much different statement.



I think I pointed out earlier I was not insulted personally. And I don't think anyone is insulted that you are learning to eat intuitively. That doesn't make sense. But I can see how being called a dysfunctional eater for counting calories could insult someone, though.

I believe this whole issue stems down to a communication mishap, but please correct me if I'm still not understanding your initial point. I believe your point is:

"For me personally, any method of controlling my food intake other than IE is dysfunctional and can lead me into disordered eating. I've been learning a lot by observing the habits of others. I can see my own dysfunction reflected in some of them, and it's making me uncomfortable to face it head on. Watching my son and other kids eat intuitively has been helping me overcome these problems."

I appreciate that you are trying to understand what I mean and that I dont' take issue with other dieters, only discussing through the lense of IE the eating/dieting behaviors that exacerbate my ED. I too come upon posts where I think "that could have been phrased better" but would not presume to reword it.

Worded that way, it sounds like you're starting to get into the psychology of how you eat in a way that will continue to lead to health. That's great! I wish you continued success.

But your initial word choices came across as:

"I've been watching people do x, y, and z. These people are doing it wrong and are really dysfunctional and some are even anorexic. Counting calories is dysfunctional across the board. IE is the only non-dysfunctional eating plan."
This is what you are accusing me of saying, I did not say this, here let me cut and paste exactly what I said "Secret eating is only one aspect of dysfunctional eating. Others would be guit and shame, justifying food "well I only ate a small breakfast so it's ok if I eat this donut now," self judging, and all methods of controlling food intake such as calorie counting, food restriction or deprivation, weighing food, etc. In relation to an intuitive eater this is all dysfunctional." I did not say across the board, I did not say calorie-counters are dysfunctional, I said that calorie counting is a dysfunctional way of eating in relation to being an intuitive eater. But whatever, we can argue semantics all day long, the point is that my awareness in myself has raised awareness of what's going on around me. I don't need to apologize to anyone about that, anymore than I have to apologize for wearing the color yellow.

From your follow up responses, I don't think this is how you meant it, but that is how it came across initially. That's why a couple of us have take exception to what you said. Not because we're IE bashing. If it works for you, awesome. Keep at it.

There's nothing wrong with not liking a certain diet. I can respect anyone as a person, that does not mean I have to enjoy and like calorie counting - what a person puts into their mouth is none of my business. But living in a diet culture comes with a lot of consequences. It's considered very "cool" to talk about calories and protein ratios, it's considered cool to be a fitness fanatic. There are some societal dietary norms that are accepted. For example, in the past when I used to hear my friend criticize every bite of food or diet relentlessly I used to think it was awesome, wow how can she be so diligent while I'm such a failure? And now I realize that it's not really healthy to scrutinize and badger oneself over what we eat. It was something I used to think was necessary and now I don't. It's quite a drastic shift and I'm still coming to terms with it and so every situation that I can observe other eaters becomes fascinating to me.

There's nothing good anorexia by the way. If I see someone and I think they are anorexic it's not because I'm judging them, it's because it's deeply concerning to see your old rommate who went from being thin and healthy to looking quite sick.

GlamourGirl827
05-08-2014, 01:44 PM
There's nothing good anorexia by the way. If I see someone and I think they are anorexic it's not because I'm judging them, it's because it's deeply concerning to see your old rommate who went from being thin and healthy to looking quite sick.

And there is nothing good about over eating and being overweight. Those friends may be thinking that same thing about you and your being over weight. How does that make you feel? I know the thought of someone looking at me and thinking they are deeply concerned because I look sick, would not leave me with a good feeling, that's for sure. And believe me many people look at those of us that are overweight and obese with those exact thoughts, that we are sick and unhealthy, and they are concerned for us. Its not coming from a place of judgment, YET I bet when it is done to you, it feels that way.

krampus
05-08-2014, 04:28 PM
Paying too much attention to others' eating habits is its own dysfunction.

No one is a 100% balanced and healthy eater all the time. We all overeat and undereat and get wrapped up in emotional eating in moments of weakness.

atmos
05-08-2014, 04:28 PM
Maybe you feel comfortable doing this but in reality 3FC strongly discourages people from visiting subforums with the intention to argue against their method.


At no point have I argued against IE. At several points I have said I genuinely am glad you found IE is working for you and I wish you continued success. What I am saying is that classifying other diet methods, e.g., calorie counting, as "dysfunctional" comes across as judgmental and rude. Saying your relationship with calorie counting is dysfunctional/disordered is something different, and not what you said initially.


I've seen some derogatory references to the "eat anything you want crowd" in a subforum but I don't participate in their discussions. The moderators wouldn't allow it and I wouldn't want to be rude either. IEers don't have a subforum, we label our threads IE and try to carve out our own little subforum this way. Perhaps you were not aware of this.


That is unacceptable of those who make such references, no matter the diet. No one should be referencing any diet method in a derogatory manner. I think some diets have legitimate health concerns, but it's important to raise those in a thoughtful and caring manner rather than insulting.

I was not aware IE did not have their own subforum. Is it something you can request? Anyway, I already explained that I hang out in Chicks in Control for a reason.


That's what moderators are for.


If I stepped over the line in my explanations of how your posts read and my suggestions that you make more careful word choices in the future, then I hope a moderator will let me know and give me a second chance such that I can correct my behavior for the future.


Never said it was.


Your second post in this thread contained the following:

"...all methods of controlling food intake such as calorie counting, food restriction or deprivation, weighing food, etc. In relation to an intuitive eater this is all dysfunctional."

So yes, to you my weighing of food and calorie counting is considered dysfunctional. This is what I take issue with. Even though you qualified it by saying from an IE perspective, that is still calling me, and other calorie counters, dysfunctional. This is no different, or less wrong, than calorie counters saying IE is just an excuse to eat whatever you want. Both statements are wrong.


I appreciate that you are trying to understand what I mean and that I dont' take issue with other dieters, only discussing through the lense of IE the eating/dieting behaviors that exacerbate my ED. I too come upon posts where I think "that could have been phrased better" but would not presume to reword it.


You weren't clear that this was in relation to your ED, though. That was the entire point of the miscommunication. I had to "presume" to reword it in order to understand what you actually meant to say. Because you didn't initially type what you meant to say. There was no indication, initially, that your viewpoint was very specific to your own ED.

Your first posts in this thread were passing judgment. And as I read the thread, I saw some backlash to that. That's why I wanted a clarification, and wanted you to realize that you were unintentionally being very insulting to a large number of people who do find calorie counting/weighing of food to be a successful method for their weight loss.


This is what you are accusing me of saying, I did not say this, here let me cut and paste exactly what I said "Secret eating is only one aspect of dysfunctional eating. Others would be guit and shame, justifying food "well I only ate a small breakfast so it's ok if I eat this donut now," self judging, and all methods of controlling food intake such as calorie counting, food restriction or deprivation, weighing food, etc. In relation to an intuitive eater this is all dysfunctional." I did not say across the board, I did not say calorie-counters are dysfunctional, I said that calorie counting is a dysfunctional way of eating in relation to being an intuitive eater. But whatever, we can argue semantics all day long, the point is that my awareness in myself has raised awareness of what's going on around me. I don't need to apologize to anyone about that, anymore than I have to apologize for wearing the color yellow.


No one has said you need to apologize for anything. Personally, I would like you to realize that your word choice, which you quoted exactly here, comes across as saying now that you see things from an IE perspective, you realize calorie counting is dysfunctional. When you were first challenged on this, instead of a knee-jerk defensive reaction it would have been helpful for you to clarify that you meant from the perspective of your eating disorder.

It's not simple semantics. Words mean things.


There's nothing wrong with not liking a certain diet. I can respect anyone as a person, that does not mean I have to enjoy and like calorie counting -what a person puts into their mouth is none of my business.


I don't think anyone here has implied you need to like calorie counting. But referring to it as dysfunctional from an IE perspective, rather than dysfunctional to you in the context of your ED, is offensive and judgmental. You made a poor choice of words. We know what you mean now that we have talked it over.


But living in a diet culture comes with a lot of consequences. It's considered very "cool" to talk about calories and protein ratios, it's considered cool to be a fitness fanatic. There are some societal dietary norms that are accepted. For example, in the past when I used to hear my friend criticize every bite of food or diet relentlessly I used to think it was awesome, wow how can she be so diligent while I'm such a failure? And now I realize that it's not really healthy to scrutinize and badger oneself over what we eat. It was something I used to think was necessary and now I don't. It's quite a drastic shift and I'm still coming to terms with it and so every situation that I can observe other eaters becomes fascinating to me.


I understand how this can be a very difficult social context from someone with an ED. I do hope as you continue down your path of IE you continue to overcome it and enjoy being an unbiased observer. I think it is important to stay unbiased, though, and not make mental notes of how disordered others appear.


There's nothing good anorexia by the way. If I see someone and I think they are anorexic it's not because I'm judging them, it's because it's deeply concerning to see your old rommate who went from being thin and healthy to looking quite sick.


Of course there's nothing good about it. If she truly has an ED rather than a two week stomach bug, let's say, I hope you're able to nurture her and eventually help her into the recovery she needs. I do understand, though, that sometimes there is simply nothing someone else can do and it is up to the individual with the ED to want recovery for themselves.

To summarize, I do wish you success on your IE journey. I'm very glad it has enabled you to get into the psychology of your eating patterns and ED and I hope you continue to overcome it. Also, I am glad we have clarified what you actually meant by your initial posts.

atmos
05-08-2014, 04:30 PM
Maybe not chili!

I fully support you on the competitive eating sans chili. More power to Black Widow. I get indigestion just looking at that picture. :)

In slightly related news, one bowl of chili = nommmmmmmmmm.

pixelllate
05-08-2014, 04:44 PM
There's nothing wrong with not liking a certain diet. I can respect anyone as a person, that does not mean I have to enjoy and like calorie counting - what a person puts into their mouth is none of my business.

Its important to practice what you preach. You can say that, but demonstrate otherwise.

GlamourGirl827 - I didn't get the sense that you were calling anyone a fat slob either. Since this is one of the several threads started on here, each for an aspect of IE, you discussed it and stated where you found the criticism.

I like IE. I've done some reading, I know people who personally follow it. However, just as it is with dieters, with lifestylers, with any group/community, I see what you mean - there are those who just say that they follow it and really use it as a blanket to give themselves an easy narcissistic pat on the back and garner attention. Its possible to do that and claim to be one thing, happens in all groups, so I can see why it is a criticism in the fitness community that it is used as a form of excuse - at least amongst some people within any group.

GlamourGirl827
05-08-2014, 05:26 PM
GlamourGirl827 - I didn't get the sense that you were calling anyone a fat slob either. Since this is one of the several threads started on here, each for an aspect of IE, you discussed it and stated where you found the criticism.

.

Thank you. I think this runs far deeper than this thread. Wannybeskinny and I have bumped heads several times. The way I am, the way I view the world and communicate; I do not mix well with the kind of personality Wannab displays on this board. Even as simple as her complete inability to see why her OP was a bit rude, despite atmos explaining it quite well. Or that she has added words into my reply like by saying I called her a fat slob, when I obviously didn't. I could go into details, but I'm sure that would lead to this post being removed, if its not going to be already.

Some people live in a way that they only see their own opinions, experiences and point of view. And they cannot think beyond their own perspective. Trying to tell them they are wrong, or that other people feel differently is met with denial, twisting words and anger. I have this (wonderful or awful) talent at really rubbing people like that the wrong way, even more so in real life. I think I actually posted about this once in general chatter...

Anyway, this post was part of the reason I moved forward with doing what I need to do to count calories and focus on recovery. I no longer want to do IE. I was doing it so I was reading the IE thread. Also I have an issue with binging (in response to restricting) so I have been coming to this board on and off since I joined 3fc. Since it seems we have to now justify why we are on certain boards. :dizzy:

Wannabeskinny
05-08-2014, 06:11 PM
Although I feel like I'm being mischaracterized I think krampus and atmos you've made some valid points I need to consider. We have requested an ie sub forum but the moderators believe the forum is at capacity already so we thought we'd find our little corner here with IE disclaimers. It seems not so although I've made no secret of my eating disorder I think I will refrain from IE topics except in our one supportive and largely unharassed thread. It's been a difficult few days and I don't wish to argue with people who don't like me.

Pinkhippie
05-08-2014, 08:57 PM
You know, Im noticing a really interesting thing going on with my husband. I have been of course preaching IE to him for years and he always tells me that he has no idea when he is hungry or full and he just eats to keep his blood sugar stable. He has low blood sugar issues. Anyway, recently he decided he wanted to lose weight and he started suddenly being more aware of his food, noticing the calories and the nutrition content and counting out portions for his food. Obviously not IE but today at dinner he ate his portioned chicken and his portioned corn chips and then he said " I think I didn't need to eat that last bit of chicken." I asked him why not and he said because he wasn't hungry anymore and he ate past the satisfaction point and into over fullness. So we talked a bit and he is starting to realize that he normally stuffs himself full of food way past the satisfaction point and eats when he isn't hungry quite often. Now that he is aware of what he is eating and the calories in it, he is suddenly becoming more in touch with his body. Ive never heard him say he is hungry or full in the 9 years we have been married until tonight. Maybe its because he is a guy who was never concerned with physical appearance or his weight until recently so he doesn't have all the baggage associated with being aware of calories. I don't know. But, its been interesting to watch and Im hopeful that over time he will continue to be even more aware of his hunger and satisfaction points.

Anyway, I have no life and the only other people I hang out with besides my husband are family and they are all naturally thin people who eat slowly, enjoy what they eat, and usually don't eat every last bite if they are not hungry anymore. So, at least I have some good examples of IE all around me. :)

magical
05-08-2014, 11:02 PM
Pixellate, I reckon she's disciplined also because she's doing competitions.

While she may come across as being a dysfunctional eater (eating very little daily, then binging during competitions twice a month), she's obviously doing something that's aligned with her goals.

Wannabeskinny
05-09-2014, 10:09 AM
You know, Im noticing a really interesting thing going on with my husband. I have been of course preaching IE to him for years and he always tells me that he has no idea when he is hungry or full and he just eats to keep his blood sugar stable. He has low blood sugar issues. Anyway, recently he decided he wanted to lose weight and he started suddenly being more aware of his food, noticing the calories and the nutrition content and counting out portions for his food. Obviously not IE but today at dinner he ate his portioned chicken and his portioned corn chips and then he said " I think I didn't need to eat that last bit of chicken." I asked him why not and he said because he wasn't hungry anymore and he ate past the satisfaction point and into over fullness. So we talked a bit and he is starting to realize that he normally stuffs himself full of food way past the satisfaction point and eats when he isn't hungry quite often. Now that he is aware of what he is eating and the calories in it, he is suddenly becoming more in touch with his body. Ive never heard him say he is hungry or full in the 9 years we have been married until tonight. Maybe its because he is a guy who was never concerned with physical appearance or his weight until recently so he doesn't have all the baggage associated with being aware of calories. I don't know. But, its been interesting to watch and Im hopeful that over time he will continue to be even more aware of his hunger and satisfaction points.

Anyway, I have no life and the only other people I hang out with besides my husband are family and they are all naturally thin people who eat slowly, enjoy what they eat, and usually don't eat every last bite if they are not hungry anymore. So, at least I have some good examples of IE all around me. :)

Men tend to not be bothered too much with calories etc, of course they generally have better metabolisms than we do, and don't have to face the extreme pressures of looking a certain way that we do. Those extreme pressures cause us to behave in bizarre ways. It's so typical to sit down at lunch with girls and the topic turns immediately to food, calories, exercise, dieting etc. It's normal behavior for someone to say "well I really shouldn't be eating a hamburger I'm so fat!" and culturally we all sort of speak that way. There are particular friends that are like this a lot and others that are more low key and relaxed. Some people feel the need to apologize to the universe when they eat a french fry - I've always done it and I'm learning to reexamine my behavior because it's harmful to me - I don't need that negative voice constantly judging me. I've spoken about this a lot with my nutritional therapist, she calls it the negative self-critic, that little voice that keeps telling me that I can't, that I don't deserve it, that I'm weak, that I'm fat, etc. Learning to calm that voice has been the biggest factor in whether I can listen to my body's hunger signals or not. The louder the self-critic voice, the more confusing my hunger signals are. The calmer the voice, the louder my body's hunger signals are. That's how my eating becomes dysfunctional in the long run. And when I hear other people's voices so loud and clear it becomes even more obvious - I wouldn't say it's triggering, it's more like finding that common ground and being aware that I'm not the only one who's got emotional eating issues, it kind of helps me from feeling like I'm completely crazy.

Because like you, I too have grown up with functional eaters, people who eat everything and stay slim and don't do strange things with their eating practices. My parents, my grandparents, my husband, my son, my BFF, even my extended family are all healthy functional eaters. I'm the black sheep. I've always been the one who's been trying to control my eating while they just eat. I'm the one who screams about calories, about carbs, about sugar, about exercise, about being in control! meanwhile they eat everything and calmly talk to me about moderation and they nod and smile but have never once gone along with any of my weight loss attempts. Nobody has ever ever given up eating anything they like just to support me and now I understand why - they don't need to.

krampus
05-09-2014, 10:24 AM
It's awesome that you have so many balanced eaters around you. I can't imagine trying to achieve IE goals in a house or environment full of diet-obsessed people.

Wannabeskinny
05-09-2014, 10:29 AM
It's awesome that you have so many balanced eaters around you. I can't imagine trying to achieve IE goals in a house or environment full of diet-obsessed people.

I see it now but I didn't see it this way before. I was the one who was diet obsessed and preaching to others that their eating was harmful. I was telling my mom she ate too much bread. I was telling my husband he shouldn't eat just because he was hungry, I was yelling at him to eat breakfast when he really wasn't hungry. I was yelling at my grandmother telling her she didn't eat enough protein. And guess what, I was the one who was overweight, obsessed and extremely unhappy. They were all fine, slim, healthy, eating the foods they love, being active and carefree. I begrudged them that because I didn't understand it, I wanted company in my dieting misery. I wanted to force someone to be low carb with me, I wanted company in my calorie counting.

pixelllate
05-09-2014, 01:08 PM
Pixellate, I reckon she's disciplined also because she's doing competitions.

While she may come across as being a dysfunctional eater (eating very little daily, then binging during competitions twice a month), she's obviously doing something that's aligned with her goals.

Fascinating, eh? If competitive eaters were just described, without stating that it was their career, we'd have a whole different view of them!

Even the average weight ones or above average have to do pretty much the same as Sonya. I...I'm too lazy (sadly a talent for eating, not the career passion!) I remember reading about how Adam Richman, who gained throughout the seasons of Man. Vs Food would have do grueling exercise/barely eat anything on other days to not gain MORE weight.

Also, thank you atmos! If I find a cool challenge I'll make a video and post it!

Pinkhippie
05-09-2014, 01:12 PM
Men tend to not be bothered too much with calories etc, of course they generally have better metabolisms than we do, and don't have to face the extreme pressures of looking a certain way that we do. Those extreme pressures cause us to behave in bizarre ways. It's so typical to sit down at lunch with girls and the topic turns immediately to food, calories, exercise, dieting etc. It's normal behavior for someone to say "well I really shouldn't be eating a hamburger I'm so fat!" and culturally we all sort of speak that way. There are particular friends that are like this a lot and others that are more low key and relaxed. Some people feel the need to apologize to the universe when they eat a french fry - I've always done it and I'm learning to reexamine my behavior because it's harmful to me - I don't need that negative voice constantly judging me. I've spoken about this a lot with my nutritional therapist, she calls it the negative self-critic, that little voice that keeps telling me that I can't, that I don't deserve it, that I'm weak, that I'm fat, etc. Learning to calm that voice has been the biggest factor in whether I can listen to my body's hunger signals or not. The louder the self-critic voice, the more confusing my hunger signals are. The calmer the voice, the louder my body's hunger signals are. That's how my eating becomes dysfunctional in the long run. And when I hear other people's voices so loud and clear it becomes even more obvious - I wouldn't say it's triggering, it's more like finding that common ground and being aware that I'm not the only one who's got emotional eating issues, it kind of helps me from feeling like I'm completely crazy.

Because like you, I too have grown up with functional eaters, people who eat everything and stay slim and don't do strange things with their eating practices. My parents, my grandparents, my husband, my son, my BFF, even my extended family are all healthy functional eaters. I'm the black sheep. I've always been the one who's been trying to control my eating while they just eat. I'm the one who screams about calories, about carbs, about sugar, about exercise, about being in control! meanwhile they eat everything and calmly talk to me about moderation and they nod and smile but have never once gone along with any of my weight loss attempts. Nobody has ever ever given up eating anything they like just to support me and now I understand why - they don't need to.


You are right, we do act in bizzare ways. Yesterday I brought a protein shake to my daughters gymnastics because I wasn't hungry for breakfast but didn't want to be caught out if I got hungry. I was talking to one of the other moms who got something out of the vending machine because she hadn't had any breakfast either. So then my daughter has to pipe up and tell her that I brought a protein shake. So she looks at it and says " oh your'e so GOOD." Like its a totally normal thing to say. I mean she could have been saying good for you for being prepared if you are hungry but no, she meant you are so good because you are drinking a protein shake and not getting something out of the vending machine.

Its great that you have a supportive of IE family though. My husband like I mentioned isn't big on diets but he is always telling me to eat when Im not hungry because he so often would eat when he wasn't hungry because of his blood sugar. He gives me a hard time for not eating if its mealtime and Im not hungry. So, that can be annoying.

Wannabeskinny
05-09-2014, 02:26 PM
You are right, we do act in bizzare ways. Yesterday I brought a protein shake to my daughters gymnastics because I wasn't hungry for breakfast but didn't want to be caught out if I got hungry. I was talking to one of the other moms who got something out of the vending machine because she hadn't had any breakfast either. So then my daughter has to pipe up and tell her that I brought a protein shake. So she looks at it and says " oh your'e so GOOD." Like its a totally normal thing to say. I mean she could have been saying good for you for being prepared if you are hungry but no, she meant you are so good because you are drinking a protein shake and not getting something out of the vending machine.

Its great that you have a supportive of IE family though. My husband like I mentioned isn't big on diets but he is always telling me to eat when Im not hungry because he so often would eat when he wasn't hungry because of his blood sugar. He gives me a hard time for not eating if its mealtime and Im not hungry. So, that can be annoying.

When someone congratulates us for eating something "good" then what are they thinking when we eat something bad. The internal judgement turns into external judgement and then we internalize it again.

Marriages can be tricky. When I fist started IE the program required that I eat as soon as I was hungry even if it was at odd times. Sometimes I'd sit down at dinner with my family as not eat because I wasn't supposed to eat when I wasn't hungry. It was all confusing at first and I though geez will I be able to ever eat with others again? Buy it took a relatively short time before my meal patterns evened out and now I eat 3 solid meals a day, no snacks. I'm allowed to snack, or skip a meal of course but this seems to be my normal hunger pattern now. I wouldn't have been able to do that if hubby wasn't supportive though, had he made me guilty for skipping meals with the family or commented at all at my food choices or meal patterns. I think he gets it cause he's a natural IEer.

I'm sure you'll figure it out with the 2 of you, it sounds like he's starting to come around!

Pinkhippie
05-09-2014, 09:13 PM
When someone congratulates us for eating something "good" then what are they thinking when we eat something bad. The internal judgement turns into external judgement and then we internalize it again.

Marriages can be tricky. When I fist started IE the program required that I eat as soon as I was hungry even if it was at odd times. Sometimes I'd sit down at dinner with my family as not eat because I wasn't supposed to eat when I wasn't hungry. It was all confusing at first and I though geez will I be able to ever eat with others again? Buy it took a relatively short time before my meal patterns evened out and now I eat 3 solid meals a day, no snacks. I'm allowed to snack, or skip a meal of course but this seems to be my normal hunger pattern now. I wouldn't have been able to do that if hubby wasn't supportive though, had he made me guilty for skipping meals with the family or commented at all at my food choices or meal patterns. I think he gets it cause he's a natural IEer.

I'm sure you'll figure it out with the 2 of you, it sounds like he's starting to come around!


I know Wannabe! In fact I had the thought that when she said that if I threw my protein shake down and went for the vending machine, would she say "oh your'e so BAD!" I mean maybe... :)

I usually can time my eating now so that I eat dinner with the family but if I don't, then its actually kind of nice to eat peacefully by myself after the kids go to bed. Breakfast is the meal my husband harangues me about the most. Often, I just don't want it and he doesn't understand that.

That is great that your husband does natural IE. I find it so helpful to be around people who eat that way naturally and so are supportive. I think over time my husband will figure it out. He is loving and supportive, he just has ideas that do not mesh with mine. When I talk about listening to your body he looks at me like Im crazy and says his body doesn't talk to him. So yeah, definitely a work in progress. :)

Locke
05-09-2014, 10:30 PM
I know Wannabe! In fact I had the thought that when she said that if I threw my protein shake down and went for the vending machine, would she say "oh your'e so BAD!" I mean maybe... :)

I usually can time my eating now so that I eat dinner with the family but if I don't, then its actually kind of nice to eat peacefully by myself after the kids go to bed. Breakfast is the meal my husband harangues me about the most. Often, I just don't want it and he doesn't understand that.

That is great that your husband does natural IE. I find it so helpful to be around people who eat that way naturally and so are supportive. I think over time my husband will figure it out. He is loving and supportive, he just has ideas that do not mesh with mine. When I talk about listening to your body he looks at me like Im crazy and says his body doesn't talk to him. So yeah, definitely a work in progress. :)


I definitely get this. Yesterday I was eating lowish-carb because I wanted to see if it would help me be less hungry/ lose weight. I'm really fighting the urges to diet hard right now even though IE has brought me peace and sustainable, slow weight loss. We had lunch catered in the office and I had a chicken breast and salad. My boss had that and beans and rice. She looked at my plate and said the same thing "OH LOOK AT YOU, YOU'RE SO GOOD! I JUST *HAVE* TO HAVE THEIR BEANS AND RICE. LOOKS LIKE IT'S THE GYM FOR ME TONIGHT!!!"

I like to think I'm good whether I eat chicken and salad or chocolate ice cream. So many things in the world are moral issues. You can't buy a pair of shoes these days without talking about ethics. Can we just keep the moralizing out of food, or at least keep it to how it is produced, and not consumed?

Pinkhippie
05-10-2014, 03:42 PM
I definitely get this. Yesterday I was eating lowish-carb because I wanted to see if it would help me be less hungry/ lose weight. I'm really fighting the urges to diet hard right now even though IE has brought me peace and sustainable, slow weight loss. We had lunch catered in the office and I had a chicken breast and salad. My boss had that and beans and rice. She looked at my plate and said the same thing "OH LOOK AT YOU, YOU'RE SO GOOD! I JUST *HAVE* TO HAVE THEIR BEANS AND RICE. LOOKS LIKE IT'S THE GYM FOR ME TONIGHT!!!"

I like to think I'm good whether I eat chicken and salad or chocolate ice cream. So many things in the world are moral issues. You can't buy a pair of shoes these days without talking about ethics. Can we just keep the moralizing out of food, or at least keep it to how it is produced, and not consumed?

That is so hard to be around those kinds of comments and attitude. It is such a shame that it so prevalent in our society. Almost mandatory for women it seems. Like they have to make an excuse or an apologia for eating what they really want to eat if its not considered "healthy". And really what IS healthy these days? Whole grain bread used to be considered healthy but now its the devil for some people. Anyway, I really think separating morality from food is a really important step in IE. I still cringe when I see someone on any kind of weight loss thread say something like how they were so "good" because they wanted ice cream but ate cottage cheese instead.