General Diet Plans and Questions - Intuitive Eating: April 2014




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Wannabeskinny
04-01-2014, 04:23 PM
The April thread for Intuitive Eating, please join!

Another month on IE and I can't believe I'm still making progress. Looking at my weightloss I can see that I went up and down for a bit but overall I've got a 3lb loss in the past 2 months. Big whoop I know, but more importantly I'd like to share some significant changes that have taken place in the past 2 months since I've started intuitive eating.

- My binges have reduced significantly, like almost gone!
- My hunger/fullness cues are intact! They still need to be honed more but they are definitely there and doing their job.
- My anxiety around food is finally lessening
- I've saved a bunch of money from not binging
- I've lost 3lbs and know that they're not coming back
- I am becoming a normal eater, a part of society and no longer a victim of ED
- My self confidence is steadily increasing
- I am addressing my ED issues with a nutritional therapist
- I enjoy eating more than ever
- I eat foods I love without (much) guilt - still working on this one!
- I'm taking selfies, posting pictures of myself, and lookiing at pictures of myself without wincing. It might be over a year and a half since the last picture I allowed of myself.

I still have a long long way to go but I'm finally on the right path, one that feels natural. Any quantitative changes you've noticed in yourself or hope for?


CindySunshine
04-01-2014, 04:29 PM
How wonderful, Wannabe! I am so happy for you!

Me, I'm doing just fine working myself into a grey happy place. As I posted in the March thread I most certainly don't need any more clothes and I have a new insight into that whole cycle I've been going through. Right now I am seriously craving a good burger and I am going to take care of that urge shortly!

I just got an email just now from that Isabel Foxen Duke gal entitled This is What "restricting" really means. I thought it was pretty darn good.

Most of you know at this point that binge-eating is a reaction to “restriction” around food, and in it’s simplest form, the “answer” to binge-eating is “allowance” around food.

I want to get really clear on what these terms actually mean, because there seems to be some confusion...

Over and over again women tell me,“Isabel, I’m eating whatever I want and I just keep eating to the point of making myself sick and I feel awful.”

Well, eating whatever you want is very different from letting yourself eat whatever you want. If you’re eating foods that you once denied yourself physically, but feel horribly guilty and anxious about that choice, you’re still restricting...

Similarly, if you’re letting yourself eat “whatever you want,” but only in certain amounts before you completely freak out, say “**** it,” and end up in the fetal position, you’re also restricting...

you’re emotionally restricting (which can be easily defined as judging your choices around food), and that’s often just as triggering, or more so, than physical restriction.

Let me put this in another way...

To some women, “not restricting” means “I eat pasta and M&Ms.”

To me, “not restricting” means “I don’t feel guilty about eating pasta and M&Ms”

Do you see the distinction here? They’re very different things...

“Allowance” around food is a state of mind — it has very little to do with what you put in your mouth, but rather, how you feel about what you put in your mouth.

“Allowance” doesn’t necessarily mean you’re physically putting whatever you want in your mouth — it means you don’t feel guilty about what you put in your mouth.

#subtledistinction #clearthatup

xo Isabel

PS - if you're confused, this post about intuitive eating with medical restrictions may help clear things up for you.

PPS - I didn't get a chance to write last week because I was in Jamaica watching cliff divers. Check out my insta pics here. #sorryimnotsorry #hashtagsarefun

Locke
04-01-2014, 06:05 PM
Thank you for posting this, Cindy. I think a lot of the problem that we have trying to explain IE to others is the language barrier. We are using words that have different meanings for different people. Many people think IE means to eat whatever you want if you're hungry. People don't realize that it's not about what you are eating but about your psychological relationship with food and your eating mentality.

Radiojane responded to Wannabe's pleasure thread in what I considered an interesting way. She eats low carb and restricts calories but has cheats. For me I can't cheat when I'm restricting. It's all or nothing. If I am watching calories and I go over I will chastise myself. I become upset. "What's wrong with me?" "I'm bad. I don't deserve to eat. I should just die."... etc. etc. until I'm reduced to a quivering pile of crying and self hatred, if not outright self abuse. Then I think "well I've already cheated might as well just eat *all the things* then purge from shame and sickness.

Living with an ED is a constant state of consciousness about food, my body, and control. It's like I have voices chattering constantly "eat this, don't eat that, you're so fat and gross, that's going to give you diabetes, you can't have that, ugly, stupid, no control..." IE has given me the ability to not judge myself for what I eat and to accept my body as it is. I still have bad moments and bad days when I relapse back into former ways of thinking but these are becoming fewer and fewer. The voices are going away. I still think about food too often for my taste but I'm trying not to judge myself for that, either. Things are getting better day by day. :)


SouthernMaven
04-01-2014, 06:20 PM
Thank you for posting this, Cindy. I think a lot of the problem that we have trying to explain IE to others is the language barrier. We are using words that have different meanings for different people.

This is so spot on.

For example, in another thread someone posted that they had eaten a large meal at Outback and came home and was hungry an hour later.

I didn't want to start anything, so I chose not to respond to this.

But whatever it was she experienced, it certainly wasn't hunger. No way could it have been hunger. Appetite, maybe - wanting to extend the pleasure she'd had from eating that meal?

I've had the feeling she was describing. It's a funny type of feeling in your stomach - probably just the digesting of food that may seem like hunger. I've always known this wasn't hunger, even though I do see how some people can mistake it for that. And I've never felt the need to eat more when I've had it.

The beauty of IE is learning to listen to your body and being able to once and for all learn the sometimes subtle nuances between hunger and appetite, as well as all the other signals we get having NOTHING to do with hunger that drive us to eat.

I wish it for everyone, but they have to be ready for it.

CindySunshine
04-01-2014, 06:39 PM
It is breaking my heart to read the introductions between the regainers and the young gals that are just starting and I want to tell them NO in a motherly way it is upsetting.

Locke
04-01-2014, 07:18 PM
SouthernMaven,

Yeah I don't like to pick fights, either, but my feeling personally is that most people could successfully use IE if they worked at it. People seem to just dismiss it on its face because they feel like they've tried it before- they think what they were doing when they weren't dieting was IE.

I've personally made a lot of changes to the way I eat that have helped me hack IE. I use small plates and I serve myself only a small portions. If I want more I have seconds. I eat very slowly and mindfully. If I have sweets I usually will have it with a meal and only a very small amount. I don't do these things to lose weight but to make it easier for me to stop when I'm full. IE has helped me overcome my disastrous mental relationship with food, but it's up to me to forge a healthy one through discipline and mindfulness.

Wannabeskinny
04-01-2014, 08:07 PM
I don't do these things to lose weight but to make it easier for me to stop when I'm full. IE has helped me overcome my disastrous mental relationship with food, but it's up to me to forge a healthy one through discipline and mindfulness.

Yea that's how it is for me too. I'm not there yet but I'm getting there.

Having a relationship with food is like having a romantic relationship with a person. If I'm not capable of being of sound mind on my own then it doesn't matter if Mr. Right is in my life, the relationship will go bust. I have to fix the ME part of eating before I can tackle all the portion/balance/nutrition head on. I'm in no place right now to be restricting foods.

Locke
04-01-2014, 11:23 PM
Btw, I'm loving the typo in this thread's title. "Intuitive Earing"- because we are listening to our bodies. :lol:

SouthernMaven
04-01-2014, 11:31 PM
I spoke about hunger in my last post. I'd like to share two recent experiences I had with hunger.

Yesterday morning I ate an English muffin around 9:00 am, as I had to be at work at 10. As I've mentioned ad nauseum, I generally don't eat anything for several hours after I wake up, but I also don't eat anything at work and wait until I get off at 4:00 pm so I needed to get something in me. And I was hungry when I ate it.

Around 1:30 pm I did feel a true gnawing hunger, but I was working and basically ignored it. I could have grabbed a truffle from our candy case but I didn't really want that. I wanted to wait until I got home to eat. After I got off I went to the major department store in the same shopping center to return some things. I then purchased other things - then and only then did I set out to return home. By this time the feelings of hunger had passed.

As I was getting ready to eat, I got up from the dining room to go back to the kitchen to get something. As I walked into the kitchen I got extremely light-headed, something I rarely experience. But I immediately recognized it for what it was - TRUE HUNGER. It was very transient - only a couple of seconds. But it was definitely a sign that I had not had enough to eat that day.

Another recent experience I had with TRUE HUNGER was when I had gone to visit family in Mississippi. I was already on the coast and had gotten up early on a Friday morning (about 6 am) to pick up my daughter at the airport in Gulfport, MS when she flew down to join me. Her plane came in at 8:30 am, we went to the local social security office for her to take care of FINALLY changing her name to her married one, and we left there at 9:30 am. We were then headed to my cousin's home about 10 miles away, and by that time I was really, REALLY hungry. That urgent kind of hunger that won't go away. But my brother was also meeting us there and he was coming from the opposite direction so I was trying to get there at the same time.

The hunger was SO urgent, however, that I briefly considered stopping at the gas station we passed to pick up something, ANYTHING, to keep it at bay. But I knew there was nothing there that I wanted to eat. So I didn't.

When we got to my cousin's house her husband asked if we wanted something to eat. He said his neighbor had given them fig preserves and he was going to fix toast for himself, did anyone else want some? Music to my ears! I said I'd love some, so he brings me two HUGE slabs of french bread that had been toasted with butter, and he put the fig preserves in front of me to spoon on as I wished. (We're sitting on their huge porch with the wind blowing off the gulf and I feel like I'm in heaven already, with or without food). I put some of those preserves on a piece of that bread and it was soooo good! Delicious in and of itself, but even more so because I was so hungry. And I could only eat one piece of bread, it was so big. Boy, that hit the spot - so delicious and at just the right time.

It's amazing to me how out of touch I've been with my hunger/fullness awareness. As I've stated before, hunger was so frightening for me, but it isn't any longer. I don't recommend getting so hungry you get faint, but being truly hungry also makes food taste so delicious!

SouthernMaven
04-01-2014, 11:33 PM
It is breaking my heart to read the introductions between the regainers and the young gals that are just starting and I want to tell them NO in a motherly way it is upsetting.

I've actually posted in the past about the extraordinary numbers of re-gainers we get in the introductions thread each and every day. Many days there will be as many as 3 or 4.

It's a sad pattern, but one indicative of the epic fail of diets. The overall statistics bear this out.

SouthernMaven
04-01-2014, 11:34 PM
Btw, I'm loving the typo in this thread's title. "Intuitive Earing"- because we are listening to our bodies. :lol:

Didn't even catch that, but it's so appropriate!

SouthernMaven
04-01-2014, 11:40 PM
The April thread for Intuitive Eating, please join!

Another month on IE and I can't believe I'm still making progress. Looking at my weightloss I can see that I went up and down for a bit but overall I've got a 3lb loss in the past 2 months. Big whoop I know, but more importantly I'd like to share some significant changes that have taken place in the past 2 months since I've started intuitive eating.

- My binges have reduced significantly, like almost gone!
- My hunger/fullness cues are intact! They still need to be honed more but they are definitely there and doing their job.
- My anxiety around food is finally lessening
- I've saved a bunch of money from not binging
- I've lost 3lbs and know that they're not coming back
- I am becoming a normal eater, a part of society and no longer a victim of ED
- My self confidence is steadily increasing
- I am addressing my ED issues with a nutritional therapist
- I enjoy eating more than ever
- I eat foods I love without (much) guilt - still working on this one!
- I'm taking selfies, posting pictures of myself, and lookiing at pictures of myself without wincing. It might be over a year and a half since the last picture I allowed of myself.

I still have a long long way to go but I'm finally on the right path, one that feels natural. Any quantitative changes you've noticed in yourself or hope for?

I loved reading this, Wannabe! You have come so far in such a short period of time.

Having played around with IE for over a year (with one or two lapses into dieting) I think the biggest thing I've learned so far is to not fear hunger. I know I sound like a broken record when I write this but it's so true. When I think of how much time and energy I've wasted trying to stave off hunger, particularly when dieting, I get so sad thinking about it.

I've also noticed that I am indeed more comfortable in my own skin. I don't get all freaked out by looking at myself in the mirror. I really don't worry any more about my weight either. I do think I've lost a few pounds, but I'm not going to get on the scale to verify it. I feel lighter and my clothes are looser. That's all the feedback that I need.

CindySunshine
04-02-2014, 06:32 AM
Maven, loved your hunger stories. Especially that fig jam sitting with the gulf breeze. I absolutely agree that true hunger allows you a many fold increase in satisfaction. Now that is my husband's way of normal eating, he prefers eating once a day from a point of deep hunger and then he just attacks and relishes his food and overeats to discomfort. I just don't like to be that full! It works for him.

It's interesting because even if you let your voice of fact and reason talk, the food anthropologist as the IE book names it, you know you aren't eating many calories on days like that and your satisfaction and happiness factor are through the roof. SO wonderful.

I think that you have those binge cravings which are sudden and urgent I need potato chips NOW and lots of them til the bag is empty. But a food urge is slow and comes on over days with a gentle prodding. I've been having this for a week with a hamburger. A couple times I've been within aroma distance of the smell of burgers on the grill and yesterday I decided it was time to handle it. I picked out this restaurant that has that kind of food and ordered my burger. It came with a pile of lettuce tomato and onion and a mound of gorgeous fries. I took my first bite of that burger and it was that run down your cheeks juicy delicious and tasted as good as I dreamed it would. Boy did I enjoy it! I ate nearly all of it, too, left the soggy bun at the end. I had some of the fries but left 2/3 or them, but it was that burger I wanted. Heaven.

So then I got home and my neighbor was having some friends over for dinner and asked me to come over and have a drink. I told her I had already eaten but joined them. So she brings the appetizers and puts a plate down for me and tells me I have to try her grilled shrimp recipe. I ate one and it didn't even taste very good which I know was because I was full. I made a mental note that was it not one more bite. She then set a salad in front of me and I just repeated I was completely full and left it sit. I am so glad I didn't eat any more. It makes the memory of the burger even better.

Wannabeskinny
04-02-2014, 09:16 AM
Fixed the type hehe.

I love the stories about food too. It's so important to relish these experiences, they teach us how to enjoy what we eat and it feels good to slap guilt right in the face for once. SouthernMaven, take it easy with those long stretches of not eating, it's great that you can hold off and not fear hunger but don't give hunger the chance to bite you back one day!

Learning how to enjoy food and not fear its power is the most surprising part of this whole IE thing. I've been binging for a long time and I thought that I was doing it because I got some perverse enjoyment out of it. But I don't think that's the case anymore, like I said my binges have reduced significantly but the times I have have been unpleasant. The guilt is not such a big deal anymore, I try not to let myself feel guilty about it, I'm more observant of a binge than anything else... and now I feel angry about it! How can I spend so much time/effort/money on something that is soooooo not pleasurable at all! Redo!

SouthernMaven
04-02-2014, 10:07 AM
Fixed the type hehe.

Aw, shucks!

SouthernMaven, take it easy with those long stretches of not eating, it's great that you can hold off and not fear hunger but don't give hunger the chance to bite you back one day!

You're so right about that. I'm going to have to start bringing a little something for me to eat at work. Fortunately I can wait as long as I want to eat - I have no set time. We only take a 15-20 minute break (we can take more but generally don't) and there are two of us working so we just go whenever.

Cindy I did LOVE the hamburger story. Yumm! It's so very nice to really enjoy food again.

And guess what today is, y'all?

http://www.theepochtimes.com/n3/595859-national-peanut-butter-and-jelly-day-2014-history-and-cool-facts/

Locke
04-02-2014, 11:39 AM
Rats, and here I am all out of peanut butter. Almond butter and raspberry jam on a baguette is close enough, right? :lol:

Wannabeskinny
04-02-2014, 12:58 PM
You know what, I may just do that for lunch lol!

SouthernMaven
04-02-2014, 03:37 PM
I just ate lunch, and my intuition told me I wanted.......grilled cheese! :D

I guess my PB&J phase came just a bit too early, huh?

Locke
04-02-2014, 03:52 PM
I wanted to share something I found with you guys because it sort of shocked me. I've known I've had an eating disorder for a long time but I just lived it- I never really researched communities or anything. I'm reading a book called The Religion of Thinness right now and it mentioned the Ana Creed, which is set of commandments for people who accept and want to continue living with an ED (anorexia, specifically). I've never been anorexic (I'm bulimic) but what SHOCKED me was how I was living my life by this code without even knowing it. I wanted to show it to you all because IE has helped me with learning to not live this way and to love myself.

This may be triggering for people with EDs proceed with caution:

I believe in Control, the only force mighty enough to bring order to the chaos that is my world.

I believe that I am the most vile, worthless and useless person ever to have existed on this planet, and that I am totally unworthy of anyone's time and attention.

I believe that other people who tell me differently must be idiots. If they could see how I really am, then they would hate me almost as much as I do.

I believe in oughts, musts and shoulds as unbreakable laws to determine my daily behavior.

I believe in perfection and strive to attain it.

I believe in salvation through trying just a bit harder than I did yesterday.

I believe in calorie counters as the inspired word of god, and memorize them accordingly.

I believe in bathroom scales as an indicator of my daily successes and failures

I believe in H3ll, because I sometimes think that I'm living in it.

I believe in a wholly black and white world, the losing of weight, recrimination for sins, the abnegation of the body and a life ever fasting.

There are people out there who have knowingly adopted this code because they want to live this way to achieve a thin body. I was absolutely shocked when I read it because each line details a belief or value that I had/have about myself. I had never read this before.

SouthernMaven
04-02-2014, 04:21 PM
I wanted to share something I found with you guys because it sort of shocked me. I've known I've had an eating disorder for a long time but I just lived it- I never really researched communities or anything. I'm reading a book called The Religion of Thinness right now and it mentioned the Ana Creed, which is set of commandments for people who accept and want to continue living with an ED (anorexia, specifically). I've never been anorexic (I'm bulimic) but what SHOCKED me was how I was living my life by this code without even knowing it. I wanted to show it to you all because IE has helped me with learning to not live this way and to love myself.

This may be triggering for people with EDs proceed with caution:

I believe in Control, the only force mighty enough to bring order to the chaos that is my world.

I believe that I am the most vile, worthless and useless person ever to have existed on this planet, and that I am totally unworthy of anyone's time and attention.

I believe that other people who tell me differently must be idiots. If they could see how I really am, then they would hate me almost as much as I do.

I believe in oughts, musts and shoulds as unbreakable laws to determine my daily behavior.

I believe in perfection and strive to attain it.

I believe in salvation through trying just a bit harder than I did yesterday.

I believe in calorie counters as the inspired word of god, and memorize them accordingly.

I believe in bathroom scales as an indicator of my daily successes and failures

I believe in H3ll, because I sometimes think that I'm living in it.

I believe in a wholly black and white world, the losing of weight, recrimination for sins, the abnegation of the body and a life ever fasting.

There are people out there who have knowingly adopted this code because they want to live this way to achieve a thin body. I was absolutely shocked when I read it because each line details a belief or value that I had/have about myself. I had never read this before.

Wow. (I've never seen this before either)

The second line almost took my breath away.

That is really sad, Locke. I am so very glad to hear that you feel IE is helping you through these types of feelings.

I sometimes get down on myself, but I can honestly say I've never felt anywhere near this way. Sure, I do have perfectionist tendencies, and there were times when dieting that I felt like a failure if I strayed from "the plan." I guess I'd get pretty annoyed with myself, but I just never felt this bad about it.

It makes you realize just how much some people struggle. When you haven't walked in their shoes, it's shocking to see that some people really do feel this way.

SouthernMaven
04-02-2014, 04:25 PM
Where are you, carolr?

Haven't seen you post in a while. Hope everything is okay.

Koalifornia21
04-04-2014, 02:41 AM
Just want to update that I had another "aha" moment today.

I've been giving my unconditional permission to eat whatever I want for the past two weeks, and I'm still going through my list of "forbidden" foods. Today I was craving an apple fritter donut, so I went and bought one.

I began eating it, it tasted awful! The sweetness, the dough itself..yech. I kept hoping it would get better with the next bite, but it didn't! I ended up throwing the rest away halfway through.

I have NEVER thrown away a donut before! I thought they were one of my favorite foods, but now that I gave myself permission to eat it, it definitely wasn't very good! It's really cool finding out that some of the foods I've been wanting so desperately are ones that I don't even like! It was my deprivation mentality that made them appeal to me, and now that I'm working on getting over that, I'm much more picky in eating what I truly enjoy.

Koalifornia21
04-04-2014, 03:51 AM
Just another question,

Do you find it difficult to get full on light foods/ vegetables?

I ate quite a bit of butternut squash, I felt full perhaps but definitely not satiated-which lead me to eat more food after...

Does this mean I'm trying to introduce "healthy" foods to soon?

I have an easier time feeling satisfied with my cupcakes! lol

CindySunshine
04-04-2014, 04:38 AM
Kolali good stuff on that fritter!! I used to love those things, too and suddenly they got just too heavy for me most of the time.

On you fullness question, I think it is hard to feel fullness on light foods. It is much easier if you add a protein like a chicken breast or whatever. It's also important to be really hungry when you start. If I'm eating something light without the protein or whatever (like fruit, vegetables, popcorn, et al) it helps me to just think about a rational portion and stop at the end of it. At that point you are probably better off nutritionally switching to something else anyway.

But go with the flow...

Yesterday I hadn't eaten much, went to the beach after a nice breakfast and it was late afternoon when I got home quite hungry. I made a lemon chicken recipe I love and had a big salad with a good sized portion tasted just so good. Later in the evening, I probably should have just put together another small meal, but instead I was rather searching eating had fruit, a granola bar, piece of chocolate sort of one thing at a time and it was unsatisfying. Not awful but I should have just eaten another meal would have felt better.

Wannabeskinny
04-04-2014, 09:34 AM
Locke, where did you find that thing? It's horrible. This is not triggering for me because I don't relate to any of it except the one bit that says "If they could see how I really am, then they would think I'm crazy or not normal. That's about it. Try not to visit that site, it's terrible. Self afflicted torture, pain is love - well I'm trying not to judge here but there is nothing that can benefit me from this pledge.

Koalifornia, great job with that donut. Look, it doesn't mean you don't like donuts but maybe you just didn't like it in that moment. And that's ok too! What it really means is that you're getting in tune with your tastes and preferences rather than assuming that you're "game" for your forbidden foods all the time. Whenever I could sneak in an opportunity to eat a forbidden food I took it whether or not I was hungry or even felt like it. I can't tell you how many times I went through the drive thru even though I was stuffed. Just because an opportunity presented itself! Those were particularly bad binges in the sense that they overwhelmed me with self hatred.

Last night for example was kind of crazy. I expected to binge because I got out of work at 10pm and hadn't eaten anything since lunch at 1pm. I knew I wouldn't get a chance to eat until late and I had even given myself permission to go through a drive thru early on in the day. Once I got off work, hungry as heck and equipped with permission to stop at the nearest fast food place I realized I had no desire at all to go through with it. It just didn't appeal to me, I couldn't think of any fast food joint that sounded good. So I drove home and finally sat down to some french bread with camembert and fig jam, and a small bowl of cheetos. Ok, not exactly the most nutritious late night dinner however, I didn't overeat, I enjoyed every bite and I didn't binge. I know someone else who's dieting would feel all sorts of guilt for eating that sort of thing late at night but for me it was a pleasant and welcome relief.

Locke
04-04-2014, 11:24 AM
@Koalifornia

Good stuff on the donut. It's amazing the sorts of foods I find myself not enjoying once I actually really taste them. I have had the same experience with "light" foods. Wednesday night I had a chicken breast and steamed vegetables. It's what I was craving. When I finished the portion that I had I could feel that my stomach was full from the vegetables but I wasn't satisfied. I ate more veggies and still wasn't quite satisfied. I stopped eating because my stomach was full (it felt bloated) but I was still hungry. It was not a good experience. I guess lighter foods are better for people who want to feel very full for not so many calories- I'm the opposite. I like not feeling anything in my stomach.

@Wannabe
That's from some random pro-eating disorder website. I found it in a book about how "thinness" has achieved the status of religion in the Western world. I try not to go to ED websites, in fact I really wasn't aware of their existence until I picked up this book. I don't really feel those things anymore, not often anyway. And yet it's a terrible thing. I feel bad that there are so many people struggling to get to a level of thinness that is beyond what most can achieve. :(

CindySunshine
04-04-2014, 12:44 PM
Yes that list really bothered end me and I must say I don't resonate with any of it.

The thing about IE that was a breakthrough for me is that there really isn't a darn thing wrong with me that I didn't create through restricting. I used to lookup my binge behavior and read about all the deep psychological traumas and wonder what the world I was missing. And while I fully acknowledge there are definitely people who do have childhood or other issues at the root of serious eating disorders, it just isn't the case for me. I had a lovely childhood, was trim. My weight gain was the result of normal societal marketing social food pressures and the very normal response of dieting off the gains. Over and over and over again.

At the bare minimum you want to at least eliminate this element of the behavior cycle and then work on what is left.

And I fully recognize that dealing with reasonably minimal amounts of weight that I am is a whole different issue than large overweight and obesity health issues and social implications. But I will still say that the internal war and food obsessions, guilt, and frustration have similarities.

SouthernMaven
04-04-2014, 12:50 PM
The thing about IE that was a breakthrough for me is that there really isn't a darn thing wrong with me that I didn't create through restricting.


Exactly the same for me, Cindy. I completely relate to this comment.

Ever since Wannabe described her tuna fish sandwich with tomato, I've been craving one too! I do have the tuna but I need to go to the local farmer's market for some decent tomatoes. I'm heading down there in just a few minutes; fortunately for me it's not very far.

For me, this is a perfect meal for a Lenten Friday.

Wannabeskinny
04-04-2014, 01:03 PM
And I fully recognize that dealing with reasonably minimal amounts of weight that I am is a whole different issue than large overweight and obesity health issues and social implications. But I will still say that the internal war and food obsessions, guilt, and frustration have similarities.

Don't ever feel like because you don't have as much weight to lose as someone else that your struggles aren't valid enough. I HATE it when someone makes me feel like their struggles are more severe, someone did that just this morning on a thread here at 3FC and it ignites so much hostility. Thankfully I know how to tap into my compassion for someone who does that and not react poorly. But there are plenty of people who struggle with food issues that don't have any weight to lose. So let's get that squared away.

In fact SouthernMaven you'll be interested to know that I was cleaning out my inbox and found a PM written to me about you last year! The poster said something along the lines of "don't trust SM because she doesn't post her stats and she's said that she doesn't have much weight to lose like we do and she's doing IE which is a bunch of BS anyway!" My reply to her was "I've never heard of IE but it's worth looking into if she's finding success with it, besides, I don't care about posting stats, that's no reason not to trust anyone and I don't judge anyone based on whether they have a lot or a little to lose."

Locke
04-04-2014, 04:32 PM
There was some abuse in my childhood and it may have given me more issues with self esteem than the average person. There are times, particularly when I'm tired, that I feel overwhelmed and then the compulsive negative thoughts creep in. I start to believe that I'm worthless and that I will never be happy (and I don't deserve it anyway). I've spent years in therapy and on medication. Nothing really helps. The zen meditation that I've been doing recently has helped. One day at a time.

Here's an article that I read today that had some IE insights. I thought you all might want to take a look: http://www.theepochtimes.com/n3/601895-effortless-eating-nutrition-made-simple/

Last night I had a bit too much wine and then overate some crackers and cheese. I'm not feeling bad about it. It just happened and that's that. There's something about Thursday nights that make me want to have more wine than I should. *shrugs* Next time I'll be more vigilant about it. Here comes the weekend where I will be inside my house most days writing my thesis. I have trouble not overeating when I'm stuck at home all day. I'm hoping this weekend I will be more attuned with my hunger signals than last.

CindySunshine
04-04-2014, 04:38 PM
Locke for what it's worth, I had too much wine last night as well. I argued with myself on going out and ended up staying home with wine. It's ok. It was such a gorgeous evening here, too, I really felt like I should go out and DO something.

Koalifornia21
04-04-2014, 05:09 PM
[QUOTE=Locke;4977414]@Koalifornia

Good stuff on the donut. It's amazing the sorts of foods I find myself not enjoying once I actually really taste them. I have had the same experience with "light" foods. Wednesday night I had a chicken breast and steamed vegetables. It's what I was craving. When I finished the portion that I had I could feel that my stomach was full from the vegetables but I wasn't satisfied. I ate more veggies and still wasn't quite satisfied. I stopped eating because my stomach was full (it felt bloated) but I was still hungry. It was not a good experience. I guess lighter foods are better for people who want to feel very full for not so many calories- I'm the opposite. I like not feeling anything in my stomach.

Locke, I think you're right on the money! When I was dieting for the last year, eating a TON of vegetables was my go-to because I wanted to "feel full" on the least amount of calories that I could. So I would stuff myself with mushrooms and lettuce and tell myself I was satisfied and full even though my stomach would be bloated and I really didn't feel satisfied at all.

I think it's really interesting that the stuffed feeling I got from eating a lot of vegetables really doesn't make me happy anymore. I'd much rather eat the food I really want, stop when I'm satisfied/ satiated and be done at that. After over a year of looking up low cal recipes to keep me full (I have over 50 bookmarked on my computer -a sign that I was getting truly food obsessed! lol) I am SHOCKED to learn that I don't even enjoy that stuffed feeling at all!

Feeling satisfied and satiated with the food I want is so much better than stuffing myself full of rice cakes and egg whites and being bloated and unsatisfied!

SouthernMaven
04-05-2014, 09:51 AM
I've been re-reading The Overfed Head, and I am always amazed at how I can manage to get new insights each time I do. No doubt this is because as I continue on this journey more and more things become obvious about my eating patterns, so something that didn't strike me as particularly important when I read it before really stands out to me now.

I also love the term he uses to describe those who eat for reasons other than hunger - inaccurate eaters. It's a perfect description. I now find myself actually thinking about this term if I am thinking about eating something & know that I'm not really hungry.

It's a very powerful word for me, for some reason. And effective.

Wannabeskinny
04-05-2014, 09:57 AM
I don't recall the term inacurate eaters from that book SM but I do need to go back and reread it. I'm still on OO and then plan to move on to Intuitive Eating as has been suggested by my nutritional therapist.

CindySunshine
04-05-2014, 09:02 PM
You know I have reread Intuitive Eating at least a half dozen times over the years and I always get something new out of it. I may need to read Overfed Head again, too.

I have a short food tale to relate. First off I put together ingredients on hand for a simple prep for my snap peas today. I had a leftover chicken breast and I had been at the beach took a long walk and I was clearly hungry decided to come home and that chicken (I used Ina Garten's Lemon chicken in the oven recipe) was high on my brain as what I wanted to eat. While it was heating, I did a quick parboil on this peas just until they turned bright green and dumped them into ice water and let them get nice and cold. I had a container of plain yogurt that I turned into a simple dip/sauce adding lemon juice and rind, a bit of milk, kosher salt and fresh pepper liberally. So I had the chicken, those peas with a dollop of the yogurt, and a big pile of watermelon. It was so darn colorful and appealing, cool and just right after the beach, yum! Satisfying at many levels and healthy, too.

I went to a party tonight and was quite reasonable with the appetizer spread after my most satisfying lunch earlier. So now I sit with my decaf coffee feeling very fine.

Very intuitive day. Smile.

Wannabeskinny
04-06-2014, 09:30 AM
That's a lovely food tale CindySunshine. I'm so jealous you went to the beach, I only wish I lived in a warmer climate. I bought a handful of fresh peas myself yesterday. I eat peas everyday, from the freezer. Can't have a salad without them actually. Fresh peas are also great dexterity practice for my 2yr old, I make him get all the little peas out and he loves eating them too.

I'm glad there's a nice handful of people here who are doing IE. The rest of the forum can be a little depressing. I'm so sad to watch people yoyo and blame themselves. In the past whenever I heard the term "diets don't work" I always thought it was because I couldn't stick to it, because I never really gave diets a chance. So I can imagine that other people feel that way too.

CindySunshine
04-06-2014, 10:43 AM
Yes I have been reading on the intuitive eating .org site, too, and find it mildly depressing as well. So many severely troubled people and sort of an aura of grey. Maybe it's just the way I'm reading it but I think finding the joy is part of the solution. And I simply don't want to establish a WOE that doesn't allow me to happily exist in society, enjoy food with family and friends and not be a burden of someone who needs to be cooked for specially.

I'm off to soak up the sunshine, head to the pool a few hours spend time in the shade with my book. I've read dozens of them this winter been nice. Let me tell you I earned this retirement though!

I have one more short food story, was invited over to dinner the other night and the food I just could not eat. The pasta was overcooked and the clam sauce which I normally love was not good at all. I picked at it and was rearranging on my plate to make it look like I had eaten more than I had (I was thinking about how anorexics do that as I did it lol) and finally just left it. When the call came out for key lime pie for dessert I most happily was "in"! But darn it I was not going to eat something I just didn't want.

Off to the pool.

Wannabeskinny
04-06-2014, 11:20 AM
Nothing wrong with being a troubled person, my heart goes out to anyone who struggles and I sometimes catch a glimpse of myself and think "wow she's a tortured soul." Like when I visited my nutritional therapist for the first time and she asked me "Do you thin people eat?" I said no. To my own ears it sounded so crazy, wow I'm really crazy aren't I?

Over the past few days I've received a few inquiries about IE through the forum and PM especially from posters that are curious or against IE. Those anti-IE say that IE is actually a diet with rules. What do the others here think of this? Is IE a bunch of rules? I guess I would have to agree that there are some rules going about it. But unlike the rules of a diet they are more about following your own instincts and being kind to yourself. Are you hungry? Eat. Are you full? Stop eating. Can you find a different way to deal with your anxiety? Sometimes. Is overeating the only solution for my anxiety this moment? Yes. Ok no problem, overeat - but acknowledge it and don't feel guilty about it. The rules are not so much rules but guiding lights into your own sensibility. And there are no consequences, that's the biggest difference.

I also see IE as a behavioral approach, not a diet or a set of rules set around food. I can control my behavior around food, but I can't control what food I crave to eat. People try way too hard to change their cravings.

SouthernMaven
04-06-2014, 02:20 PM
Over the past few days I've received a few inquiries about IE through the forum and PM especially from posters that are curious or against IE. Those anti-IE say that IE is actually a diet with rules. What do the others here think of this? Is IE a bunch of rules? I guess I would have to agree that there are some rules going about it. But unlike the rules of a diet they are more about following your own instincts and being kind to yourself. Are you hungry? Eat. Are you full? Stop eating. Can you find a different way to deal with your anxiety? Sometimes. Is overeating the only solution for my anxiety this moment? Yes. Ok no problem, overeat - but acknowledge it and don't feel guilty about it. The rules are not so much rules but guiding lights into your own sensibility. And there are no consequences, that's the biggest difference.



Interesting, but not surprising, that you've received many inquiries, WBS. You are so articulate in your posts and have an ability to describe your own feelings and experiences in such a profound way that I'm sure it's drawn interest from many quarters. SO many people here (and elsewhere) describe their experiences with and sadness about their struggles with food. They just want peace. I know that's what finally brought me to IE.

I really do understand why some people feel like IE is just another diet. This is one of my big problems with the Intuitive Eating book by Tribole and Resch. Their list of 10 Principles just smacks of rules. They tell their readers to work on each one of them alone, and I think it's too much thinking about food, just as in a diet.

I've made the statement over and over again, and I've seen others say the same thing as well - it is EASY to make IE into another diet. And really, it's not surprising, because people come to IE from dieting and it's difficult to shake that mindset. Former dieters just feel they must be doing something unnatural in order to "follow" IE - and unfortunately I would say the great majority of people who initially try intuitive eating are not so much about making peace with food as they are with losing weight.

I certainly tried to make IE into a diet when I first tried it. But I've since learned that IE has to be individual for each and every person, and it is a journey that they must walk alone, for the most part. Most importantly they really need to let go of weight loss and get comfortable in their own skin.

Much of the IE literature I've read talks about getting rid of the scale, but one in particular - Susanna Dee - is really adamant about it. She truly believes that IE is unworkable if you insist on weighing yourself. She lost 60 lbs with intuitive eating. (She never calls it that, nor does Rob Stevens, who lost 140 lbs). Her book I've Tried it All! Now What?! does have rules, but I feel like she puts them forth to help you get back in touch with your body. So many people want some kind of "list" or "workbook" since that's what they are used to; perhaps that's why she's set up the book this way. But like Rob Stevens' The Overfed Head I appreciate her non-psychobabble, straightforward approach. Both of them talk about the diet industry's stranglehold on this country and how it has created so much havoc in so many people's lives.

The most important thing I can say about both of these authors is that they have been successful losing weight using the basic principles of IE. The other books always tell you to not worry about weight loss - and I agree - but I am convinced that once people REALLY understand what IE is all about, weight loss is just a natural occurrence. If someone is 100 lbs overweight and they go into this with a sincere wish to embrace the concept of never dieting again AND learning to listen - really, truly listen - to their body, they simply cannot help but lose weight naturally.

Those that say "I listened to my body and it told me to eat junk over and over again" are not listening to their body at all. To be successful one just HAS to face what it is that drives them to eat when they are not hungry. Many overeaters don't want to do that. They find it painful. But it is imperative to do so if they ever want a normal relationship with food.

I want to be just like I once was - a person who only thought about food when I got hungry. That's why I know IE works; I did it for 20 years. For people who have struggled with their weight their entire lives it has to be much more difficult, because they've never been that way - well, they were when they were babies, but some started having problems as young children and being overweight is the only way they've ever known themselves.

I do believe that IE can work for anyone - but ONLY if they approach it with the proper attitude and mindset. Unfortunately most people who have been sucked in by the diet culture and industry just aren't ready to believe in it or practice it successfully. And no amount of trying to explain it to them will have any real effect until they are truly DONE. WITH. DIETING.

pattygirl63
04-06-2014, 05:16 PM
I haven't been here in a while. I've had a real problem because I needed to eat a certain way to get my fasting blood sugar under control. I always believed that if I could get the blood sugar under control the rest would follow. I felt I needed to get this all together before coming back here.

I have learned that I am one who has to eat healthy which I've learned is my favorite way of eating, but that doesn't mean I can't eat other foods sometimes if and when I want it. Example, I eat hamburgers on lettuce no bun, but yesterday I wanted a small serving bag of chips with it and I ate it. That is when I found out that I could raise my carb count. Funny thing is that I don't want those foods that often and I am happy to say it didn't set off any cravings.

I learned a lot of this by reading the new Atkins book. I always thought it was a high fat/protein diet. I was amazed when I read it with an "open" mind that I learned that it is a high protein/high fiber way of eating. Just what I needed to get my fasting blood sugar and cravings under control. For the 1st time in about 7 or 8 yrs, it is normal and I find it to be sooooo easy. I was amazed when I read in the "rules" in the book and found they are similar to IE in the fact that it says...Eat only when you are hungry and eat as much as it takes to satisfy your hunger and stop.

This is just what I was looking for. The weight will come off more slowly, but at least I'm not gaining weight all the time like I was. I have absolutely no cravings.

I started out with the idea that I was going to do the 20 g Induction Phase, but that has changed. I couldn't deal the constipation. So I'm not doing Induction. I just want to eat high protein, high fiber and low carb when I am hungry. I believe this will fall in place.

When I was a child growing up I never ate unless I was hungry which wasn't all that often. I never had a weight problem until I got older and everyone insisted I had to eat 3 meals a day to be healthy. I know the reason most diets do not work for me is because they usually insist on 3 meals and 2 or 3 snacks of carby starches. That is deadly for me because I always gain weight when I have to eat that many meals of high carb foods. I even break out with rashes. I always knew I gained but didn't know the rashes were caused from the starchy carbs until I was first diagnosed with Type 2 diabetes. Then I got on the roller coaster of their diets and didn't know why they didn't work for me and couldn't figure out how to get things back under control. It seemed like the only time a diet worked was when no one was around to tell me that I had to eat 3 meals and what foods I had to eat or couldn't eat. Then I would naturally crave the "forbidden" foods and go on the binges and things would get worse again.

There were times over the years when I lost weight because I ate only when I was hungry which usually was 1 or 2 meals a day and once in a while not often I might need a snack which was usually only a few bites. I finally learned that high carb eating makes me gain weight. I knew I needed to stop eating them, but I just couldn't get things under control for any real long length of time because all I wanted was what was the foods that were causing the problem.

I now know that those are the foods that causes me to have the tendency toward diabetes or insulin resistance. If I eat the starchy high carbs to often it causes me to crave more.

SouthernMaven I like that phrase you used from The Overfed Head... eating inaccurately. I think that describes what I'm trying to say. I don't believe there are any good/bad foods, but I do believe because of certain needs in some peoples bodies that there may be inaccurate foods or ways of eating them. I feel like I have finally learned to eat accurately for me and my body/system which has caused everything to fall in place for me. I've been working at trying to find a way to get my blood sugar under control since the day after Christmas, but I couldn't do it. I've been on this way of eating for about a week and my fasting blood sugar is in the normal range and it was 97 today.

I am so grateful that I now have a way of doing IE that works for me so that I don't have to eat when I'm not really hungry. I think there are people who do not have eating disorders or health problems like I have had to deal with who can probably do IE and eat anything they want and still lose weight. However, while I knew that at one time in my life that IE was the normal way that I ate when I was growing up, I had a problem getting it to work for me again. It worked for me the few times over the years that I was thin so I was sure there must be some way it would again. However, I also knew that I had to do it in a way that I could get the high blood sugar readings back down to normal and under control. I am so grateful that I have found it. Eating low carb, high protein and high fiber Eating Intuitively will make it happen for me and this time, I'm keeping it this way for life.

SouthernMaven
04-06-2014, 07:23 PM
Welcome back Trish - good to see you here again!

I am so glad to hear that you have your blood sugar under control. There is no question that high blood sugar is a serious health issue that needs to be addressed in whatever way is necessary.

The only time I've ever had a problem with my blood sugar levels is when I gained too much weight. Weight loss brought them back under control. I have no family history of diabetes and am not prone to it so a moderate weight loss did the trick for me. Fortunately I did not have to resort to a low-carb diet either.

I'm glad to hear that Atkins is promoting the "eat when you're hungry, stop when you are satisfied" idea. I see the concept of intuitive eating becoming more mainstream, and no doubt we'll see this appear as part of more and more "diet" programs, even though it is antithetical to any diet out there.



There were times over the years when I lost weight because I ate only when I was hungry which usually was 1 or 2 meals a day and once in a while not often I might need a snack which was usually only a few bites.

In other words, you only ate when you were hungry, right? Do you think you ate less carbs then as well? Or just less overall?


SouthernMaven I like that phrase you used from The Overfed Head... eating inaccurately. I think that describes what I'm trying to say. I don't believe there are any good/bad foods, but I do believe because of certain needs in some peoples bodies that there may be inaccurate foods or ways of eating them.

I see what you're saying here Trish, but I believe we're using the term inaccurate in two completely different contexts. You're talking about properties of certain foods that make it difficult or impossible for some people to eat without having a strong physical reaction.

My use of the term inaccurate is strictly in the context of the way people determine their motives for eating. Hence, I'm speaking more about people's emotional reaction to food as opposed to their physical reaction to it.

Short of medical reasons to eliminate or severely curtain certain foods (and they certainly exist) I still believe restriction in any form when not medically necessary is anathema to intuitive eating.


I am so grateful that I now have a way of doing IE that works for me so that I don't have to eat when I'm not really hungry. I think there are people who do not have eating disorders or health problems like I have had to deal with who can probably do IE and eat anything they want and still lose weight. However, while I knew that at one time in my life that IE was the normal way that I ate when I was growing up, I had a problem getting it to work for me again. It worked for me the few times over the years that I was thin so I was sure there must be some way it would again. However, I also knew that I had to do it in a way that I could get the high blood sugar readings back down to normal and under control. I am so grateful that I have found it.

Those of us "of a certain age" ;) no doubt face health challenges we did not deal with at a younger age. High blood pressure, high cholesterol, high blood sugar are just a few of the things many aging people face, overweight or not. And being overweight exacerbates those issues.

My high cholesterol is primarily genetic, but it is under control with medication. My cardiologist routinely runs the Berkeley HeartLab test on me which tests the genetic profile of my cholesterol and reveals much more about it than a standard lipid profile does. Even when the standard test showed my cholesterol in a perfectly normal range, the Berkeley HeartLab test shows the makeup of my cholesterol molecules & revealed a lot of problems with them. (they are too sticky) Fortunately they are also being addressed with medication and are much improved. (getting fluffier) He did this test because of a long history of cardiac problems in my family.

My blood pressure, however, is strictly a result of my weight. Weight goes down, so does the BP. Same with the blood sugar readings. I can eat 100% carbs but if my weight is normal so is the BP and blood sugar. So, at least for me, carbs just aren't the problem. Food eaten for reasons other than hunger is.

Koalifornia21
04-06-2014, 08:24 PM
Hello Everyone,

It seems like I have good days with IE, followed by not so good days.

I know that the legalizing food process is one of the most important steps. But will I want cookies for every meal forever? I know that this probably can't be healthy..but to be honest cookies and other "junkie" foods are the only types of foods that I have been craving... And I know that I am not always respecting my fullness as well as I should - I think that I need to slow down and tell myself that there is not going to be another diet, and I'm not going to spend over a year sub-1500 calories in deprivation again.

I felt really happy with IE for a moment, and that I was making progress, but then I read the Intuitive Eating book and in the nutrition chapter they say that they follow the 90/10 rule, (90%healthy only 10% junkie foods) so in actuality some food rules do come in to play eventually it seems...

I guess I'm just struggling to FULLY legalize the food and recognize that this is not just a diet vacation or something along those lines. I keep thinking "well I can let myself have this cookie now, but for lunch I should have my nonfat yogurt" or "If you keep eating like this you're not going to stay thin for long"

I also worry about weight gain, all my clothes fit me perfectly right now, and I honestly don't have the money to go out and by a new wardrobe if I gain a ton of weight. I'm afraid that I'm just going to overeat and gain weight excessively and that none of my clothes will fit me anymore...

I really want to trust this process but I'm just feeling kind of scared.

Koalifornia21
04-06-2014, 08:28 PM
It's just hard for me to let go of the food police voice. My mom was a personal trainer for twenty years and she has VERY strict food rules that she always forced on me and my brother. We were only allowed low fat/ nonfat foods, low carb, with an emphasis on vegetables and protein. She also says that more than one dessert a day is excessive. I grew up listening to all this advice along with A TON of other bits for my whole life -to the point where I have internalized it.

I'm just struggling to let go of this voice and tell myself that eating more than one dessert does not make me a fat slob, that I won't become obese from eating the foods I want to, and that I don't have to force myself to eat "healthy" foods that I don't even enjoy!

SouthernMaven
04-06-2014, 09:35 PM
Hello Everyone,

It seems like I have good days with IE, followed by not so good days.

Perfectly normal, particularly when first starting out.


I know that the legalizing food process is one of the most important steps. But will I want cookies for every meal forever?

No. Really. NO.

I thought I'll probably eat Zapp's Hotter 'N Hot Jalapeno Potato Chips every night for the rest of my life. But in reality I probably haven't had them more than a dozen times since I started IE about a year ago. (of course, they do cause major acid reflux, so that's probably one reason for that)

I'm no Geneen Roth fan, but she said she ate chocolate chip cookie dough for every meal for two weeks. She said she sat down at the table and ate it as a meal. It's hard for me to imagine that, but again, I'm not a big sugar fiend. Could I imagine sitting down and eating a loaf of french bread at every meal for two weeks? Much more likely for me to do that than eat any sort of sweet, but that's what I prefer.

I personally can't go for more than a day or two without some sort of vegetable, and I have to eat some protein EVERY SINGLE DAY. So indulging those "forbidden foods" to the exclusion of other things, while enticing, just wasn't the way I approached IE. Because I couldn't eat like that.

That said, many evening meals consisted of popcorn and a glass or two of wine. But I had almost always had a more "conventional" meal during the day.


I felt really happy with IE for a moment, and that I was making progress, but then I read the Intuitive Eating book and in the nutrition chapter they say that they follow the 90/10 rule, (90%healthy only 10% junkie foods) so in actuality some food rules do come in to play eventually it seems...

I cannot emphasize enough how much I dislike this book, and this is just one of many examples why. Once you put a restriction on your intake - ANY restriction - the whole IE thing goes out the window. They also talk somewhere in that book about eating every 4-5 hours even if you're not hungry. I found so many things in that book that fly in the face of what I believe to be the true practice of intuitive eating.



I guess I'm just struggling to FULLY legalize the food and recognize that this is not just a diet vacation or something along those lines. I keep thinking "well I can let myself have this cookie now, but for lunch I should have my nonfat yogurt" or "If you keep eating like this you're not going to stay thin for long"

You can't help these thoughts - having them isn't wrong. Based on what you wrote in your second post about your mom's "food rules" I'm not at all surprised that you're having them. It's perfectly natural to do so, particularly with your background.

IE truly is a process. Don't beat yourself up over them. I had them too, and I can't remember my mother ever saying a word to me about nutrition, what to eat, what not to eat. She provided good meals but in no way was the food police. I did that to myself - by dieting.


I also worry about weight gain, all my clothes fit me perfectly right now, and I honestly don't have the money to go out and by a new wardrobe if I gain a ton of weight. I'm afraid that I'm just going to overeat and gain weight excessively and that none of my clothes will fit me anymore...


Again, a normal fear. And unfortunately, it does a lot of people in who attempt IE. What often happens is that the fear becomes overwhelming and they then start back to dieting. I didn't even put on weight when I first started and I STILL went back to dieting for a little while. It was a disaster, and THAT put on a little more weight. Not the IE. The D.I.E.T.

Koalifornia21
04-07-2014, 03:41 AM
No. Really. NO.

I thought I'll probably eat Zapp's Hotter 'N Hot Jalapeno Potato Chips every night for the rest of my life. But in reality I probably haven't had them more than a dozen times since I started IE about a year ago. (of course, they do cause major acid reflux, so that's probably one reason for that)

I'm no Geneen Roth fan, but she said she ate chocolate chip cookie dough for every meal for two weeks. She said she sat down at the table and ate it as a meal. It's hard for me to imagine that, but again, I'm not a big sugar fiend. Could I imagine sitting down and eating a loaf of french bread at every meal for two weeks? Much more likely for me to do that than eat any sort of sweet, but that's what I prefer.

I personally can't go for more than a day or two without some sort of vegetable, and I have to eat some protein EVERY SINGLE DAY. So indulging those "forbidden foods" to the exclusion of other things, while enticing, just wasn't the way I approached IE. Because I couldn't eat like that.

That said, many evening meals consisted of popcorn and a glass or two of wine. But I had almost always had a more "conventional" meal during the day.



Again, a normal fear. And unfortunately, it does a lot of people in who attempt IE. What often happens is that the fear becomes overwhelming and they then start back to dieting. I didn't even put on weight when I first started and I STILL went back to dieting for a little while. It was a disaster, and THAT put on a little more weight. Not the IE. The D.I.E.T.



Hi Maven,
I appreciate your thought out answer. Like you I haven't been eating only these foods with the exclusion of others. I feel icky if I don't have any protein, and I oddly really like some vegetables so I have been eating them too. The way I approach it is I'll eat the cookies, but also have some yogurt (protein) with them...or I'll have a normal dinner that I like, (maybe eat a cookie before) but if I'm still hungry I'll let myself have cookies afterwards too.

I'm just hoping that I'll get to the point where they sound less appealing and I don't crave them for every meal. I get afraid that maybe I'm listening to my appetite/taste buds more than my body...

The fear of gaining a lot of weight is a really strong one for me and one that I don't quite know how to deal with. I know that I'll never be willing to diet again, but I'm also concerned with what my bodies set point may be? I know that before I started dieting (but still always eating pretty healthy) I easily maintained around 125 lbs...It wasn't until I got to college and cafeterias that I started putting on weight, about ten pounds, which inspired me to diet. I got down to 118 lbs, but after a year of dieting with no binges, I suddenly started to binge. It was like my body was doing everything it could to gain some weight. If my body was stable at 125 before, is there a chance that might be a set point for me?

I'm afraid that if I trust IE and get up to like 140 or something then I'll just be really depressed....at what point did you find that your size stabilized with IE? I know that you don't weight yourself, but at what point did you stop gaining/fluctuating? I can tell my body is dealing with bloating and getting used to processing more food, and just feeling a but off kilter...I'm just wondering if there's a time frame I can expect to stabilize in?

Again, I greatly appreciate your feedback!

Wannabeskinny
04-07-2014, 10:11 AM
Interesting, but not surprising, that you've received many inquiries, WBS. You are so articulate in your posts and have an ability to describe your own feelings and experiences in such a profound way that I'm sure it's drawn interest from many quarters. SO many people here (and elsewhere) describe their experiences with and sadness about their struggles with food. They just want peace. I know that's what finally brought me to IE.

I really do understand why some people feel like IE is just another diet. This is one of my big problems with the Intuitive Eating book by Tribole and Resch. Their list of 10 Principles just smacks of rules. They tell their readers to work on each one of them alone, and I think it's too much thinking about food, just as in a diet.

I've made the statement over and over again, and I've seen others say the same thing as well - it is EASY to make IE into another diet. And really, it's not surprising, because people come to IE from dieting and it's difficult to shake that mindset. Former dieters just feel they must be doing something unnatural in order to "follow" IE - and unfortunately I would say the great majority of people who initially try intuitive eating are not so much about making peace with food as they are with losing weight.

I certainly tried to make IE into a diet when I first tried it. But I've since learned that IE has to be individual for each and every person, and it is a journey that they must walk alone, for the most part. Most importantly they really need to let go of weight loss and get comfortable in their own skin.

Much of the IE literature I've read talks about getting rid of the scale, but one in particular - Susanna Dee - is really adamant about it. She truly believes that IE is unworkable if you insist on weighing yourself. She lost 60 lbs with intuitive eating. (She never calls it that, nor does Rob Stevens, who lost 140 lbs). Her book I've Tried it All! Now What?! does have rules, but I feel like she puts them forth to help you get back in touch with your body. So many people want some kind of "list" or "workbook" since that's what they are used to; perhaps that's why she's set up the book this way. But like Rob Stevens' The Overfed Head I appreciate her non-psychobabble, straightforward approach. Both of them talk about the diet industry's stranglehold on this country and how it has created so much havoc in so many people's lives.

The most important thing I can say about both of these authors is that they have been successful losing weight using the basic principles of IE. The other books always tell you to not worry about weight loss - and I agree - but I am convinced that once people REALLY understand what IE is all about, weight loss is just a natural occurrence. If someone is 100 lbs overweight and they go into this with a sincere wish to embrace the concept of never dieting again AND learning to listen - really, truly listen - to their body, they simply cannot help but lose weight naturally.

Those that say "I listened to my body and it told me to eat junk over and over again" are not listening to their body at all. To be successful one just HAS to face what it is that drives them to eat when they are not hungry. Many overeaters don't want to do that. They find it painful. But it is imperative to do so if they ever want a normal relationship with food.

I want to be just like I once was - a person who only thought about food when I got hungry. That's why I know IE works; I did it for 20 years. For people who have struggled with their weight their entire lives it has to be much more difficult, because they've never been that way - well, they were when they were babies, but some started having problems as young children and being overweight is the only way they've ever known themselves.

I do believe that IE can work for anyone - but ONLY if they approach it with the proper attitude and mindset. Unfortunately most people who have been sucked in by the diet culture and industry just aren't ready to believe in it or practice it successfully. And no amount of trying to explain it to them will have any real effect until they are truly DONE. WITH. DIETING.

Standing ovation please, well said well said!

I too needed (still need) IE to be a set of rules. I need it laid out for me. Cause I thought I had it figured out before with dieting. Just follow this plan and it will work out. We need a strategy and there's nothing wrong with that, and if someone needs to make IE into a diet the first time they try it then that's ok, as long as they allow some flexibility for it to morph into what it truly is. Since none of the books I've read so far have given me any guidelines I've made up my own lol. The first step was to eat mindfully and not feel guilt or self-judgement for what I ate. It sounds simple but had I not set myself down to do that I would not have been able to continue with IE. I've moved on to measuring my level of hunger and riding the surf with cravings, but still the most important thing I do is forgive myself after every meal.

Honestly my body is still sending me to junk food. But not like I thought it would. I really thought that by legalizing certain foods I'd be found unconscious under a mountain of junk food, or drowning in a pool of nacho cheese. But I haven't. Yes I eat some of that food, but in very small portions surprisingly and not every day. I was just fixated on certain foods before because I had labeled them evil. but I find myself craving a whole range of foods instead.

Your statement in bold, that's the key to IE. I've tried to be clear about this in other parts of the forum to make sure I am upfront about what my goals are. I need to stop binging, I need to be at peace with food, I need to trust myself and if I can fix that then I think I will naturally lose weight, aleviate stress and start to normalize again.

Wannabeskinny
04-07-2014, 10:57 AM
The fear of gaining a lot of weight is a really strong one for me and one that I don't quite know how to deal with. I know that I'll never be willing to diet again, but I'm also concerned with what my bodies set point may be? I know that before I started dieting (but still always eating pretty healthy) I easily maintained around 125 lbs...It wasn't until I got to college and cafeterias that I started putting on weight, about ten pounds, which inspired me to diet. I got down to 118 lbs, but after a year of dieting with no binges, I suddenly started to binge. It was like my body was doing everything it could to gain some weight. If my body was stable at 125 before, is there a chance that might be a set point for me?

I'm afraid that if I trust IE and get up to like 140 or something then I'll just be really depressed....at what point did you find that your size stabilized with IE? I know that you don't weight yourself, but at what point did you stop gaining/fluctuating? I can tell my body is dealing with bloating and getting used to processing more food, and just feeling a but off kilter...I'm just wondering if there's a time frame I can expect to stabilize in?


I sympathize with you a lot but you are indulging in some dieting behaviors. It's understandable, it must feel like a lot of pressure to have a mother who is that fixated on health and nutrition. Those of us who struggle with food think that skinny fit people have it easy but they're not all intuitive eaters are they? All I can say is, can you escape your mother's control for a while? Is it possible to maybe visit her a little less or avoid the topic of food when you speak to her? If you've been to college already then you're old enough to not be controlled and it sounds like you're in a controlling environment about food either physically or mentally, please correct me if I'm wrong. Your inner critic's voice sounds like your mother's voice but it's really you so you need to take stock of that now and realize that you're doing this to yourself, your mother doesn't have the power anymore to control what you put in your mouth.

You're also involving other fears into your food fears. You're picking arbritrary numbers like 140 to fixate on, and you're talking about money that you'll need to buy bigger clothes. Why are you fantasizing about such obscure things that haven't even happened? It does take a little bit of time settle into IE before it feels comfortable but you won't achieve that comfort until you start being a little nicer to yourself and releasing some of these anxieties and stop fixating on the horrible what ifs. This is how I am doing it - every time I want to eat I would tell myself that I don't deserve to eat, that I'm too fat anyway, that it's not an appropriate or responsible thing to eat. That would stop me for a bit and I'd reach for something acceptable like low fat yogurt or some other diet-approved food... but then I'd get angry and binge, zoning out completely while I ate, probably hiding the evidence because if it's not an appropriate thing to eat then I have to hide it. Afterwards I'd hate myself, tell myself awful things and blame my weakness and lack of self control and it would cause me to see terrible things in the mirror etc.

Now, I take some time to think about what I want to eat. If I can't figure out what I want to eat then I hold off until it becomes clear. Sometimes I crave a junk food and I give the craving some time to pass. But sometimes it doesnt' pass and I realize that i really do want that bad food. Before I even reach for it I tell myself that it's ok, I give myself permission to eat it. It is what it is. I eat it but I don't allow myself to zone out. I try to eat as mindfully as I can. That alone allows me to really cut down on portions. I try to enjoy it as much as I possibly can. Afterwards I tell myself kind things, that it was just food, that I did deserve to meet my hunger and cravings and that I'm not a bad person. This sounds really dorky like psycho-fluff but it's been the most important part of the process. Dieting or not, if I can't look at myself in the mirror at the end of each day then what's the point?

CindySunshine
04-07-2014, 03:19 PM
Koalifornia, great advice already the only thing I would add is while yogurt does have protein, for me it just doesn't satisfy me and give me a fullness like I get for eggs or chicken et al. I find the whole concept of IE easier to get if you really start at a hungry but not famished point and eat a well balanced meal including a solid protein. It's when I do this that the satisfaction sets in and then I get the IE idea better.

You have to get through it of course and I'm certainly not suggesting you eat anything you don't want to, but yogurt and fruit and cookies I think is setting you up be sugar hungry for more cookies. And maybe you just need to get through this phase and that's ok.

I think the only the the authors of the original IE book are trying to say with the 90% healthy thing is that's an example of where they landed after doing IE for some time and where they ended up. For me, I find I'm pretty much in that ballpark, it's always nice to land on something healthy if it sounds great to you. But it isn't a rule at all..you need to listen to your body.

I find cravings after a while are really different than impulses to binge. I get a craving over several days and it sort of pops in and out if my mind and then when I just do it boy it's just wonderful rather like the cheeseburger incident.

What I get in trouble with is grazing eating where I never really get satisfied and then I want something else and I'm not really hungry but not full and certainly not satiated.

I started IE this go around after I had done a few weeks of healthy eating but still was hoping to get a bit trimmer. Over the course of a couple months and in conjunction with a reasonable but consistent exercise routine I pretty much have gotten to where I feel really good. If you start out with more weight to lose it will take longer and if you start at a too low weight you may gain and like you said your body may be responding to both restriction and perhaps a lower weight than you can sensibly sustain. All that needs to even out.

Be patient and kind to yourself one day at a time. I can certainly understand the pressure you've had with a very fitness conscious mother. It will take time to put those messages you've heard for so long in their place.

Koalifornia21
04-07-2014, 03:38 PM
Hi,
I noticed a theme between you both Wannabeskinny and Cindy, and thatís that you let yourself have cravings for certain foods, and if the cravings persist you allow yourself to eat the food. If not it seems that you choose a more balanced/ healthy meal. Correct me if Iím wrong about this.
I think I got confused after reading Overfed Head and him saying to just let yourself eat all the junk food you want as long as you are hungry and stop when full so thatís what Iíve kind of been trying to do. However, perhaps Iíve been setting myself up for a sugar crash that way and I should also include more balance into my meals. My question for the both of you is how do you differentiate between a craving for junk food and what your body truly wants?
I really appreciate what you pointed out about the ďhorrible what ifsĒ. I tend to indulge in these thoughts a lot. I am at college, so the only person who can make me feel bad about what I eat is myself. Itís really just a mental restriction.
I guess I need to work on being more patient and less hard on myself.

I appreciate both of your wisdom so greatly!

Locke
04-07-2014, 04:49 PM
I think I got confused after reading Overfed Head and him saying to just let yourself eat all the junk food you want as long as you are hungry and stop when full so thatís what Iíve kind of been trying to do. However, perhaps Iíve been setting myself up for a sugar crash that way and I should also include more balance into my meals.

I'll go ahead and throw out my unsolicited opinion here, too. I did exactly what you did- I let myself eat anything as long as I was hungry. After a week or two I realized that chocolate for a meal made me feel sick afterwards. So I started eating more balanced meals because they make me feel better.

Now I find that at most meals I don't have a real craving for something. Do I want meat and a salad? Bread and cheese? I don't really care either way. So I go with salad and meat, or a soup... something tasty but balanced and nutritious. Sometimes I want something decadent, so I eat a burger or something rich. This doesn't happen very often, maybe a few times a week.

But I'm a little further along in the process. If I had not had the "eat all the junk" phase I wouldn't have the body wisdom to happily make the more nutritious choices I make today. Go by what your gut tells you. It's corny but every time I have the feeling that "ugh, I didn't eat the right thing" or "man that was too much food (or too little)" you are learning how to take care of your own needs. It's trial and error. You're not going by a book, you're going by how you feel.

CindySunshine
04-07-2014, 05:05 PM
First off, I don't want to come across like I have this all figured out. I have felt like I'm in a really great place before and gone back to bad habits, but for the time being it is really working and I am hopeful!

I never eat anything that I don't really like. Honestly for the most part we have always eaten pretty healthy, good mix of treats and specialty heavier items, but we are gardeners and eat tons of fruits and vegetables and we love to cook so everything we make is interesting. Eating without a lot of fried, sugar, processed stuff just makes me honestly feel better and it is the promise of feeling better that helps me choose delicious things that make me feel good!

I used to be a sugar junky always wanted dessert. Somewhere in the last 10 years I have just quit that and I'm not sure why but now if I do want junk food it tends to be crunchy or cheesy. Sugar just makes me feel so awful I don't want it anymore. I don't know what that's about but you know it is what it is and I don't miss the sugar cravings.

I have probably the hardest time with nuts, for me it's honey roasted peanuts or pistachios. They are very hard to stop with any kind of reasonable serving. I did buy pistachios when my kids came to visit and those boys scarfed them up before I could eat many so that handled that problem LOL. But I did have some around and managed to not overeat which is a victory.

I don't know if this makes any sense or not and it isn't an exact science but I wouldn't eat junk for the sake of it if you really think about it your body will feel better with a balanced meal. Or at least over time it should. The junk food party is really just to get rid of any restriction rules lingering in your brain.

My big problem has been trying to force myself thinner than my body wants to be and we are talking about 5-7 vanity pounds, for you the difference between 118 and 125 or something. I am just fine but if I restrict myself lower then it all falls apart and I binge up much higher.

NOT worth it. No more for me.

Wannabeskinny
04-07-2014, 05:21 PM
Hi,
I noticed a theme between you both Wannabeskinny and Cindy, and thatís that you let yourself have cravings for certain foods, and if the cravings persist you allow yourself to eat the food. If not it seems that you choose a more balanced/ healthy meal. Correct me if Iím wrong about this.
...
I guess I need to work on being more patient and less hard on myself.


I started IE in early February so I'm just at the beginning of this process. This is "pay your dues" time. Eat mindfully, listen to your body, respond to what your body wants and things will start to shift.

Listening to your body is not so easy, especially if you don't like what you hear. But that's ok, just go with the flow. You want cookies? Eat the cookies. I did it. I didn't go all out and stock my house from top to bottom with bad foods, but I did respond to what my body craved and went straight out and got it! I still do! It's not so much about learning to trust your body, but more about gently allowing your body to trust YOU. That's how I think of it anyway. I've yelled at my body like an abused child for a very long time even though all it was asking for was love and nourishment. It's taking a long time to rebuild that sense of trust within myself.

Cravings - scary stuff!!! I know! Like I said, just respond to those cravings long enough so that they start to not be so intense. Now my cravings are not so intense but still need to be addressed so I reason with them. I see something that might be triggering but I just stop myself and mentally have a word with myself on the side "do you really want this? is there something better I can get for you instead of that donut? Oh you want a cookie instead?" There you go, donut craving gone. Now I want a cookie. That doesn't mean I go have a cookie, it just means that the donut lost its power. I may have a cookie I may not. What's important is that I listened to what my body really preferred.

I remember at first all the books said "wait until your hungry, and then think up what you want to eat, and then eat it." That felt like gibberish. I can't tell you how many times I've stood in my kitchen thinking I'm hungry but nothing sounds to eat. Nothing nothing nothing. My mind kept going back to good vs bad food. As I continued to do mindful eating and continued to foster my hunger/satiety skills things started to make more sense. Now I still stand in my kitchen and coming up with all kinds of things that I never thought of making before which is new and welcome.

I guess what I'm trying to say is you need to have some patience, trust that you are listening and responding to yourself, and good things will happen. I hate to bring up the abused child analogy but it couldn't be more true for me. It was an abusive situation I was in and by treating myself kindly and consistently has made that inner child much more confident and friendly.

Wannabeskinny
04-07-2014, 05:26 PM
Cindy and Locke, you've both talked about eating certain foods because they make you feel better. I'll honest and say that I'm not there yet. I'm still in the process of giving my body what it asks for, whether that be junk or whether that be wholesome food. I've still got some peace to make with food and I'm not letting go of my potato chips just yet. That's not to say that I'm eating poorly, I eat veggies every day and I love and crave salads a lot and even more so lately, and my portions are much smaller than they used to be so everything is on track for a healthier me.

pattygirl63
04-07-2014, 05:46 PM
SouthernMaven

You have really come a long way and are doing great on IE. You have truly learned how to make it work for you. :carrot: I am so happy for you as IE is a real process of learning how to make it work and making it personal is a big key. I know it is for me. I had to make my way of IE "mine". Somebody elses way of eating IE just would not work for me. To me that was just another way of making "rules" to follow. So my way of doing IE and "my" rules or way that of doing fits me comfortably that it isn't even a problem. It is just automatic for me like breathing. And that spells success for me.

BTW I knew I was using the inaccurate phrase differently than you meant, but it fit what I needed for my IE plan. I choose the IE thought not to think of food as good/bad foods, however, I have learned by many needle sticks that as a diabetic there are some foods that I cannot eat even though a diabetic diet book may say that I can. That doesn't necessarily mean that I cannot have them ever, it just means I need to limit them at least at this point. However, I also know that I may never be able to add them back even when weight is normal again. I know this because I got it under control once before and then learned the hard way by adding them back. My body doesn't function well with them. So when I saw the phrase about inaccurate eating, I chose to adopt the phrase to think of the foods that cause my blood sugar to spike as "inaccurate foods" for me rather than good or bad foods. It is one of those "my personal" things that doesn't apply to anyone but me.

I personally believe IE is like other things even diets. ONE WAY doesn't fit all because all bodies are not the same. I have a book written by Joyce Meyer where she observed people who were naturally then. There are so many different ways that these people controlled their eating which is really IE although they didn't have that name at that time. They were kind of like the girl in The Overfed Head that Steve observed. This is when I realized that One Way of doing IE doesn't fit all. I needed to make this Mine... My way of doing IE because my reason for doing it is medical.

There are a lot of books out there of doing IE different ways, and although some of them say losing weight is not important and to throw away the scales. I've also read other IEers that say you need to use them and they do IE successfully with scales. So I think that is one of those things you have to decide what works best for yourself. As for me, I knew and I also know that giving up my scale is a death sentence for me. In the beginning, I tried giving up the scale and I was gaining weight like crazy and my blood sugar readings quickly jumped into the 200s and all of a sudden I was having high blood pressure which I had never had in my life. So while it may not be important for others to use scales or to lose weight on IE, it is extremely important for me to keep my scale and lose weight. It is a matter of life and death and the quality of life I want to live. I use three tools with my way of doing IE... my scale, my bs meter and my bp machine.

You see I've seen the results of too many cousins who are or were diabetics. Too many died too young due to complications from being a diabetic. Some became blind because they ate what they wanted without worrying about it. I've seen them die of heart disease because they didn't control it. I have a cousin right now who just had a kidney transplant and is blind in one eye and partially in the other. The sad thing is she follows the diet they give her and it doesn't make her better. DH first wife had diabetes and followed the regular diabetic diet they gave them when she was living. She died blind, had no toes left on one leg, had heart disease and if she had lived after heart surgery she would have lost her legs which DH said had turned black. I absolutely refuse to go down that road.

I know I don't have to go down that road and I don't have to worry about those things because I know that I can control it with the way I eat and exercise. I know the tools/process that I have to follow so that diabetes will never defeat me.

I realize to some that my version of IE is not actual IE, but that doesn't bother me because I know that I've learned how to make "My way of IE" mine and it is working as easy as breathing. And the bonus is that the weight is coming off slowly, but the blood sugar is normal and my bp is normal again which means my quality of life is improving too.

It is my hope that others will learn how to make IE work for them just as you and I have done.

I didn't intend to make this so long, but I just thought I should share my IE journey since I haven't been here in a while.

Y'all have a great IE day.

SouthernMaven
04-07-2014, 06:50 PM
Trish, I TOTALLY agree. IE is different for everyone. It's the "anti-diet," after all.

As I wrote in my previous post, some restrictions are medically necessary. You've given perfect examples of that. Of course you have to stay away from certain foods if they spike your blood sugar, regardless of whether or not you really want to eat them.

I think people can practice IE in any number of ways. You can certainly honor your hunger AND your medical needs at the same time. You are wise to know what can happen if you don't stay away from those foods that cause you problems.

Hey, I've read a fair number of IE books and you're right - none of them say the same thing! You have to take from each one what works for you and incorporate it into your own life. I also get what you're saying about the scale. For me, it's triggering - regardless of the direction of the numbers. But for you, it's a necessity. It sounds as if you have a good handle on using it wisely.

And for what it's worth, I'm glad you decided not to do Atkins induction. I think your current WOE sounds fine!

Wannabeskinny
04-07-2014, 07:00 PM
Thanks for joining us pattygirl, I'm really glad to hear that the new Atkins diet is suggesting eating when hungry and stopping when full. When I did Atkins in the late 90's it was an all-you-can-eat bacon butter festival.

pattygirl63
04-07-2014, 08:39 PM
Thanks SouthernMaven and Wannabeskinny :)

I actually used induction to get rid of the cravings. I don't make it a point of working at staying in Induction because the carbs are so low. However there are days when my carbs are that low but they usually go up to 25 or 30 g. It just turns out that way now as I don't plan it. I'm not good with having to eat a certain amount of calories or carbs because if it says you have to eat a certain# of either, I find that I got into the habit of eating when I wasn't hungry to reach the amount they say I have to eat. I prefer eating lowcarb but I do better eating only when hungry and stop eating when satisfied as we learn in IE.

Y'all have a great evening.

CherieB
04-07-2014, 11:44 PM
Fits to a "T". I started this journey that I have an eating disorder mid last year and I am still trying to accept some of it. I have an intuitive eating book last fall and still have not opened it. That's for posting the Ana Creed - I can relate to it and it does hit home. Time to take a step forward.

Wannabeskinny
04-08-2014, 08:05 AM
Fits to a "T". I started this journey that I have an eating disorder mid last year and I am still trying to accept some of it. I have an intuitive eating book last fall and still have not opened it. That's for posting the Ana Creed - I can relate to it and it does hit home. Time to take a step forward.

Welcome CherieB, there's support here!

SouthernMaven
04-08-2014, 08:28 AM
Fits to a "T". I started this journey that I have an eating disorder mid last year and I am still trying to accept some of it. I have an intuitive eating book last fall and still have not opened it. That's for posting the Ana Creed - I can relate to it and it does hit home. Time to take a step forward.

Welcome CherieB! So glad you found us.

What book do you have, if you don't mind my asking? If it's the Intuitive Eating one by Tribole and Resch, no doubt you'll find some good information there. But I have to say, in my own opinion, it isn't the best one.

Overcoming Overeating by Hirschmann and Munter, I believe, is a much more helpful tool than the IE one above. But your mileage may vary.

And for free, you can access The Overfed Head by Rob Stevens. Just google Overfed Head pdf and it will come right up in your search results. You can't print it out but you can certainly read it, and it's an easy read. I just reread it this past week. It's still my favorite one of all.

Feel free to chime in with questions or comments!

Wannabeskinny
04-08-2014, 09:14 AM
The Overfed head book if you open it on a search engine on your smart phone you can download it directly to your iBooks. I read a lot on my iphone, especially when I'm commuting on the train.

CindySunshine
04-08-2014, 10:38 AM
Well I am working on getting ready to close down the Florida house for the season. I really hate doing this, it's been so peaceful and relaxed and this is a few days of focused effort and a big change in routine.

So one of the items is "cleaning out the refrigerator" and pantry, but getting rid of perishables. I have been trying to groove into this the last few weeks and not buy more than I needed but I also hate to go to the grocery store repeatedly so I did what I could. I'm down to the last two days and surveying and trying to figure out how much I can eat and decidedly am NOT thinking intuitively about food. I ate a bowl of fruit and made a bacon sandwich to use up the bacon sprinkled grape tomatoes on it to use up the tomatoes. I'm sitting here mindlessly eating it planning everything else I needed to do and had one of the "what the heck are you doing girl" moments. Honestly I wasn't really even hungry for breakfast at all and the bacon sandwich was ok but not really tasting all that great.

Geez!

All the work to get in touch and the first busy day I fall right out. I'm not even that nutso on food waste but it as more the planner in me.

So I am taking a time out with a mug of coffee. What is left in that refrigerator goes to the neighbor or in the garbage but I am not going to eat it.

Back to mopping floors...

Locke
04-08-2014, 11:22 AM
Patty,

A major turning point for me in IE was recognizing that there is more than one voice inside me. It's not that my body says "Locke, you are hungry and you want toast and eggs." IE is a combination of listening to all of the signals that your body is giving you and reacting to it by providing what it needs. The numbers on your blood monitor are just another signal that you need to take into consideration when you are feeding yourself; it is necessary information that you need in order to honor your health and hunger.

Locke
04-08-2014, 11:32 AM
I'm finding myself in a strange place lately. I've been very unhappy for a long time. I'm in grad school and I'm burnt out, no friends in my city (I've been here for three years), no family, etc. I've struggled with my ED, self esteem, compulsive drinking, depression, etc. I had a sort of personal epiphany yesterday. My unhappiness doesn't stem from my childhood, or the kids who made fun of me in high school. It comes from me thinking that happiness is obtainable if I do (x,y,z).

I have this vision of me as a thin and successful person with a husband and kids. I think if I only have those things I could be happy. This is just simply false. Happiness is within reach right now. Shakespeare said it best: "There is no good or bad, but thinking makes it so." I can have happiness in the moment, it is right here if I have the right attitude. Also, my very beliefs about happiness prevent me from obtaining the things that would make my life better.

So what does this mean, practically speaking? It means I am throwing away the scale. I'm not going to wait until I've lost weight to try to go out and date or make friends (yes, this was my plan, and a dumb one at that!). I'm no longer going to be waiting for my vision of who I should be to materialize. That's not to say I'm going to stop IE or stop trying to further my career. It simply means I'm no longer going to hold my breath waiting for some ideal vision of the future to come into being. Happiness is here- I just need to be kind to myself.

Wannabeskinny
04-08-2014, 11:54 AM
I'm finding myself in a strange place lately. I've been very unhappy for a long time. I'm in grad school and I'm burnt out, no friends in my city (I've been here for three years), no family, etc. I've struggled with my ED, self esteem, compulsive drinking, depression, etc. I had a sort of personal epiphany yesterday. My unhappiness doesn't stem from my childhood, or the kids who made fun of me in high school. It comes from me thinking that happiness is obtainable if I do (x,y,z).

I have this vision of me as a thin and successful person with a husband and kids. I think if I only have those things I could be happy. This is just simply false. Happiness is within reach right now. Shakespeare said it best: "There is no good or bad, but thinking makes it so." I can have happiness in the moment, it is right here if I have the right attitude. Also, my very beliefs about happiness prevent me from obtaining the things that would make my life better.

So what does this mean, practically speaking? It means I am throwing away the scale. I'm not going to wait until I've lost weight to try to go out and date or make friends (yes, this was my plan, and a dumb one at that!). I'm no longer going to be waiting for my vision of who I should be to materialize. That's not to say I'm going to stop IE or stop trying to further my career. It simply means I'm no longer going to hold my breath waiting for some ideal vision of the future to come into being. Happiness is here- I just need to be kind to myself.

All food talk aside, emotional eating is a byproduct of low self esteem. Of course nutrition is important and getting my eating and weight under control is a big motivator. But the most important thing I've learned from IE is that I need to provide myself with lots of nourishing food and thoughts. It takes time to counter negative thoughts but this is the most important thing you can do.

At first it feels fake and pretend. I look in the mirror and the negative thoughts just whoosh through my head at an alarming rate "you're fat, you're ugly, your thighs are huge, look at your bulging fat" and that's just a few. I immediately stop myself and say "no, that's beautiful, that's proportionate, I look like a real woman, I'm quite beautiful, I love my hair." It feels like a sword fight. You fight every negative thought with a countering positive thought. It's so unnatural at first.

I've been doing this for a couple of months. Recently thought it's gotten much easier and at times I catch myself looking in the mirror and thinking "wow I look good" without any negative thoughts. Truth is in reality I don't look much different than I did a couple of months ago, but that negative voice is not very loud anymore. You CAN change that voice, changing how you feel about yourself is so much easier than changing your outside. I know that sounds crazy but as long as those changes happen on the inside then the outside becomes less of an obstacle.

Koalifornia21
04-09-2014, 02:29 AM
All food talk aside, emotional eating is a byproduct of low self esteem. Of course nutrition is important and getting my eating and weight under control is a big motivator. But the most important thing I've learned from IE is that I need to provide myself with lots of nourishing food and thoughts. It takes time to counter negative thoughts but this is the most important thing you can do.

.

I needed to read this tonight Wannabeskinny. The thing I valued most while I was at my lowest weight were my extremely visible hip and rib bones. I don't know why I even think that having protruding bones is attractive, but since I've put on a bit of water weight, I can't see them anymore. To be honest it's made me feel like I've suddenly become less pretty, and in some ways I've been beating myself up mentally, and feeling like if I want to look "pretty" again I'm going to have to go back on a diet.

But I am going to resist those thoughts and stay with IE! I think your right about providing yourself with nourishing THOUGHTS as well as food. I may have been doing the food bit, but as for thoughts - well I've just been my own worst enemy in some ways.

Koalifornia21
04-09-2014, 05:27 AM
I also want to chime in and add on a positive note that after reading your posts, Locke and Cindy, I decided to try to focus more on how the food made me actually FEEL after eating it.

It started for lunch when I was thinking about what I wanted to have, my first thought was cookies! but then I was surprised to hear my mind tell me that a chicken bowl would be just as yummy. Well, I got the cookies anyway- just because - but I ate them really slow, and then monitored how I felt afterwards. I noticed that they left me with a dull headache, and that my teeth and tongue felt coated in an unpleasant layer of sugar...not a good feeling!

I'm not saying that I'm suddenly at the equalized-food destination, but I'm definitely on my way there. Honestly, for the past two and a half weeks I've allowed myself to eat ANYTHING and some foods I thought I would love have turned out to not even be that enticing once I let myself have them. Two weeks ago I bought some Reese's peanut butter puffs to have for breakfasts...they don't even tempt me! It's been two weeks and I've only gone through half the box. I've noticed the same thing with a lot of other foods I thought that I would be uncontrollable around.

I know in Overhead Head he mentioned his roommate that survived off of portions of gelato and cookies and whatnot, but the thing is I think IE may be really individual to everyone. She may have felt perfectly fine eating those foods all the time, but eating that food all day just makes me feel sluggish and head-achy. It's great that that works for her, but I'm ready to start bringing back in a little balance to my meals.

Like everyone on here has said UNCONDITIONAL allowance of every food really has been a necessary step for me (and not one that I'm done with) but I'm slowly beginning to realize that I don't feel deprived anymore - and with that realization the "tempting" foods are really losing their power over me.

SouthernMaven
04-09-2014, 11:28 AM
The Overfed head book if you open it on a search engine on your smart phone you can download it directly to your iBooks. I read a lot on my iphone, especially when I'm commuting on the train.

Thanks! I'm not the best with keeping up with technology so didn't even have that app on my phone. I downloaded the app and then downloaded Overfed Head into it. Great to have it so handy!

Locke
04-09-2014, 05:24 PM
I'm thinking about taking a break from 3FC for a while. This little thread and a few others seem like islands of sanity in the middle of a hurricane. Many people here are so unhappy while they are forcing themselves to obey little tricks and rules so they can "beat" hunger and their own bodies into submission. Through IE and some other methods I've come to realize that all of the diet tricks that are taught, the small plates, no carbs, eat an apple instead, chew gum, don't eat in bed, etc. are all wrong because they aren't addressing the underlying problem.

Dieting as an approach to weight loss is a great example of the tail wagging the dog. You can force yourself to act in all sorts of silly ways in order to lose weight, but it doesn't fix your relationship with food. The binging, overeating, and loss of control are the symptoms and not the disease. I don't like what I see here other than some of you really supportive people in IE.

I don't want to focus on weight loss anymore. I want to live my life. I think that I've got the grounding I need in IE to keep working on that process. I've been wanting to quit coming around here for a little while now. I just don't think it's healthy to be constantly reading about the different dieting things people are doing, and the self hatred of people's bodies that is oozing off of every post.

My goal is no longer weight loss. My goal is to love myself and my body and to honor my needs. This is (in general) not a community that shares those goals. I may come back after I see how this goes or I may pop back in from time to time but I think I'm going to try not reading the dieting forum so religiously. :) You folks have been great and I wish you well in life and on your respective journeys.

Wannabeskinny
04-09-2014, 06:14 PM
It's understandable Locke, we all need a break from time to time and if this is one of those times then go for it. I know what you mean about getting frustrated with diet tips, everyone is trying to be helpful. The most damaging are the daily posts of people who come back with a regain, those are heartbreaking. Especially since they blame themselves over and over and over again. I always heard the words "diets don't work" but it meant nothing to me. I heard "I haven't tried hard enough to make this diet work."

Be well and come and visit us when you're in need of support here.

CindySunshine
04-09-2014, 06:41 PM
Yes I totally understand. In the end "normal eaters" whatever the heck that means anyway don't spend hours on 3FC to dissect their eating habits.

As I said, I am returning to Illinois tomorrow morning, me and my little Shih Tzu will be riding on a jet plane and I'm planning to settle in and enjoy good habits. I surely will check in from time to time and may well need to realign at some point better sooner than later. In the meantime I am cheering for everyone's continued success and happiness.

Wannabeskinny
04-09-2014, 06:52 PM
I try not to dissect my eating habits at all on 3FC. I'm really focusing most of my energy on staying positive and keeping in tune with my hunger/satiety signals and enjoying the food that I eat without guilt.

But things are getting tough for me right now. The next 3weeks are extremely stressful with my job. Once the 3wks are over I'll be fine but the stress right now is keeping me up at night. I'm having anxiety attacks in the middle of the night and it's terrifying. I also feel paralyzed by stress during the day, and by paralyzed I mean I don't know what to do, can't focus, and lose all sense of getting things done one at a time. I lay out XYZ tasks and then instead of doing XYZ I go and eat and don't do anything. So my eating is a bit erratic these days. I'm holding on best I can but my go-to stress relief is eating.

Wannabeskinny
04-10-2014, 10:07 AM
I'm having a good morning so far but I feel an impulse to diet today. I changed my routine a little bit this morning, before I was waking up - coffee -breakfast-chi gong- out for a walk. Today I woke up - chi gong - coffee - breakfast - and will be heading out for our walk soon. Breakfast was super tasty and I ate mindfully. 2 eggs scrambled with fresh spinach and feta cheese, a slice of salami and half an english muffin with a dash of strawberry jam. I'm still getting used to the idea of having such a substantial breakfast but I find that the yummier the breakfast the better my day ends up nutritionally.

I have to be very diligent right now about stress-relief since I'm in total work mode and will not see any downtime until May. And the diet thoughts come in when I'm stressed because they make me feel in control. Breathe in and out!!

CountryLiving
04-10-2014, 10:51 AM
This week I've really been working hard on eating mindfully and I had a big realization out of doing it. I've realized that I have never fully chewed my food. It may sound weird! But when I'm not eating mindfully I chew quickly and swallow food that is bigger in size and it gives me a "lump" feeling in my throat. I've ate like this for years but I guess I've focused on eating so quickly that I never realized this. So this week I have been chewing my food all the way up and it has been a real eye opener. Another habit I had was not even swallowing all the food but keeping some in my cheeks. This may sound really strange but it has made a big turnaround for me! I actually feel like I've made progress this week. Oh and one other thing is I put the scale away for good. I did this a couple weeks ago and I couldn't stand it anymore and got it back out. I've realized what a psycho it's making me and it's so not worth it. I'm done with it. Feeling so much free-er this week!

SouthernMaven
04-10-2014, 11:19 AM
This week I've really been working hard on eating mindfully and I had a big realization out of doing it. I've realized that I have never fully chewed my food. It may sound weird! But when I'm not eating mindfully I chew quickly and swallow food that is bigger in size and it gives me a "lump" feeling in my throat. I've ate like this for years but I guess I've focused on eating so quickly that I never realized this. So this week I have been chewing my food all the way up and it has been a real eye opener. Another habit I had was not even swallowing all the food but keeping some in my cheeks. This may sound really strange but it has made a big turnaround for me! I actually feel like I've made progress this week. Oh and one other thing is I put the scale away for good. I did this a couple weeks ago and I couldn't stand it anymore and got it back out. I've realized what a psycho it's making me and it's so not worth it. I'm done with it. Feeling so much free-er this week!

CountryLiving, congratulations on these significant insights.

It really is amazing what we discover about our eating habits when we really stop to eat mindfully.

I am so happy for you that you feel you are making progress! And I completely relate to your feelings about the scale. Over the last few days my clothes have been feeling looser, and that has ever so slightly tempted me to pull out the scale. But I know it's such a trigger for me that I refuse to do so. I'll satisfy myself with the fact that I have likely dropped a pound or two and enjoy it - no need to quantify it with a number.

SouthernMaven
04-10-2014, 11:31 AM
I'm thinking about taking a break from 3FC for a while. This little thread and a few others seem like islands of sanity in the middle of a hurricane. Many people here are so unhappy while they are forcing themselves to obey little tricks and rules so they can "beat" hunger and their own bodies into submission. Through IE and some other methods I've come to realize that all of the diet tricks that are taught, the small plates, no carbs, eat an apple instead, chew gum, don't eat in bed, etc. are all wrong because they aren't addressing the underlying problem.

...

I don't want to focus on weight loss anymore. I want to live my life. I think that I've got the grounding I need in IE to keep working on that process. I've been wanting to quit coming around here for a little while now. I just don't think it's healthy to be constantly reading about the different dieting things people are doing, and the self hatred of people's bodies that is oozing off of every post.



Locke, I completely understand how you feel. I took a break for about a month and it really helped me. We would miss you here but understand if you need to go your own way for awhile. I love reading your posts. They are so insightful and I often find things in them which are so pertinent to my own journey with IE.

I find myself reading the other posts less and less, as they are so negative and depressing. And some of the know-it-alls are really getting on my last nerve. At least they leave us alone here. For that I am grateful.

SouthernMaven
04-10-2014, 11:33 AM
Yes I totally understand. In the end "normal eaters" whatever the heck that means anyway don't spend hours on 3FC to dissect their eating habits.

As I said, I am returning to Illinois tomorrow morning, me and my little Shih Tzu will be riding on a jet plane and I'm planning to settle in and enjoy good habits. I surely will check in from time to time and may well need to realign at some point better sooner than later. In the meantime I am cheering for everyone's continued success and happiness.

Save travels, Cindy!

Check in with us when you can.

Koalifornia21
04-12-2014, 11:31 PM
Hi Everyone,

The past few days have been smoother sailing with IE, I feel that I'm getting a better hang of it, and really getting a lot more in tune with my body. However, this morning I woke up and just felt "thick" like I was retaining water or something. My clothes didn't feel as comfortable and I was feeling kind of down on myself so I called my mom to talk to her about it - I know where she's at with food so I have NO idea why I did that.
She basically told me that if I want to stay thin I'm just going to really have to keep an eye on portion sizes, stay away from junk foods, and only eat healthy meals. "I know you're only eating healthy things anyway." she said. Umm, good things= she's not at college with me! Considering this past week that my staples varied from cupcakes to chocolate chip cookies I definitely have not been.
Afterwards I just felt kind of guilty, like wondering if IE is going to work for me, and if my mom is right...I know it was absolutely silly to reach out to her about this issue, but I don't know who else to talk to about it. I don't want to burden my friends with my body image issues! I know that I have gone up in weight, and I guess I'm just kind of scared/wondering when it's going to stop.

Wannabeskinny
04-13-2014, 09:04 AM
Hi Everyone,

The past few days have been smoother sailing with IE, I feel that I'm getting a better hang of it, and really getting a lot more in tune with my body. However, this morning I woke up and just felt "thick" like I was retaining water or something. My clothes didn't feel as comfortable and I was feeling kind of down on myself so I called my mom to talk to her about it - I know where she's at with food so I have NO idea why I did that.
She basically told me that if I want to stay thin I'm just going to really have to keep an eye on portion sizes, stay away from junk foods, and only eat healthy meals. "I know you're only eating healthy things anyway." she said. Umm, good things= she's not at college with me! Considering this past week that my staples varied from cupcakes to chocolate chip cookies I definitely have not been.
Afterwards I just felt kind of guilty, like wondering if IE is going to work for me, and if my mom is right...I know it was absolutely silly to reach out to her about this issue, but I don't know who else to talk to about it. I don't want to burden my friends with my body image issues! I know that I have gone up in weight, and I guess I'm just kind of scared/wondering when it's going to stop.

You reached out to your mother because you love her and you need her support. There's nothing wrong with that. Unfortunately it sounds like you're looking for validation, but I don't think you will get that from her or from anyone who is truly uncomfortable with IE. Never ever feel the need to report to her what you eat and what you don't eat, it's completely unecessary for your mother to keep tabs on you and what goes in your mouth so don't give her license to. Just be like "Mother, I'm trying to talk to you about the exam that I just took and the party I went to, why are we stuck talking about food? It's sooooo boring!" And really, isn't it?

I was speaking to my mother the other day and she's considering going to a dietician. Now my mother is a thin person, she likes her carbs a little too much but she basically is a natural-born inutitive eater. All her friends go to dieticians and get prescribed nutrition plans. Basically the dietician gives them a menu for the week with exact portion sizes. I guess this might be good for some people who do not underestand the important of balance in their meals but I don't think my mother is one of those. I'm afraid she'll go down the path of dieting but I haven't been able to talk to her about my IE yet. I did tell her that I am seeing a nutritional therapist and she said GREAT and went on chatting about her friends dietician, she must have assumed that I meant I was seeing the same kind of dietician that she is seeking out. Ok that's enough talking for my mother about this for now.

Koalifornia, my advice to you is to stop seeking external validation about what you're doing. IE does not need to be mother approved or approved by anyone but yourself. In fact, seeking validation from others will continually put you in the diet mindset. This is an internal thing, you should focus on listening to your own body, not listening to what someone else tells you about your body. Talk to your mother about other things, stay away from this topic. If your relationship with your mother is based on food-talk then you can change that, there are other ways to build a relationship with your mother other than food/nutrition/health and you have to explore that.

CindySunshine
04-13-2014, 09:07 AM
Greetings gang! I have managed to get relocated back north spent the last week in getting the southern place clean and packed and out on ice for the next visit and gotten resettled.

First off Kolali, I don't know what to say on advice. Only you can decide how you want to live your life but there will be advice everywhere and you can find support for almost any strategy. I sure understand you turning to your mom and wanting a wonderful bonded relationship with her especially with her expert knowledge status with her profession. Just recall why you wanted to make a change in the first place and assess your own readiness. For me it took awhile to really have my mind click and if you aren't there yet respect that.

Another thing that is sort of coming into focus in my brain is what you might think of as the range in IE. The more you can sincerely enjoy healthy foods and find them satisfying and joyful and the sort of less full you need to get and the more you can enjoy exercise, the thinner you are going to end up. The trick is to honestly not restrict but come from a point of feeling wonderful and it's just something you have to feel. And I suspect it varies from time to time depending on your life at the moment.

Last week for me was crazy and moderately stressful for me. The good news is I never really over ate, but I clearly wasn't in tune with hunger very well and my exercise dropped off since I was busy although not particularly active. So one of the things I did after I got home and rather found myself staying in that non IE pattern was to take a day to focus back to very mindful eating, get good and hungry, pay attention and stop and man it felt so good! I could just feel this wash of feeling happy at the end of the day. Now that was motivating!

The other great news was I had to do a major closet cleaning. I still had all these work office clothes that I honestly haven't worn in 4 years and I knew for sure I'm not wearing them again so I filled three big bags to take to charity which gave me room to put my summer things from Florida neatly in place.

My really happy moment was uncovering these really cute Anthropologie print shorts I got several years ago. I took a deep breath and tried them on and they FIT and they are a size 4. Man that just out the icing on the cake. :)

Koalifornia21
04-13-2014, 04:41 PM
Koalifornia, my advice to you is to stop seeking external validation about what you're doing. IE does not need to be mother approved or approved by anyone but yourself. In fact, seeking validation from others will continually put you in the diet mindset. This is an internal thing, you should focus on listening to your own body, not listening to what someone else tells you about your body. Talk to your mother about other things, stay away from this topic. If your relationship with your mother is based on food-talk then you can change that, there are other ways to build a relationship with your mother other than food/nutrition/health and you have to explore that.

Hi wannabe , I think you said exactly what I needed to hear, I need to learn to trust myself and my own body more. I can be really indecisive at times, and I have trouble trusting my own judgments a lot of the times. In fact I reread overfed head and that's something he mentioned often, that we need to trust our own bodies to tell us what we need, not a diet. Or friends or whatever. I have made a full commitment to IE because I think it's truly the right way to treat my body, but it is difficult when what I'm doing feels kind of counterculture. But you're absolutely right, I don't need to find validation anywhere outside myself when it comes to food!

Thanks for your input Cindy, and congrats for fitting into those shorts! I'm definitely at a place where I'm never going back to a diet, I really believe that IE is the right way for me to live, but I do struggle at times. I agree with you that eating more health focused foods will lead to a slimmer body, and even though I enjoy a lot of healthy foods I think that Im just going to really try to tune into my body - and if that means having pancakes when my body wants it, then that's what ill have. I have found that there are some healthy food I really enjoy and those are the ones I will keep eating, but I've always hated yogurt, so I'm not going to make myself eat it anymore!

One question I have for you both is how do you grocery shop? Planning ahead for meals is hard for me because I don't know what ill want to eat later in the week. Do you just buy foods that you know you enjoy and go from there?

Wannabeskinny
04-13-2014, 05:50 PM
I have found that there are some healthy food I really enjoy and those are the ones I will keep eating, but I've always hated yogurt, so I'm not going to make myself eat it anymore!

One question I have for you both is how do you grocery shop? Planning ahead for meals is hard for me because I don't know what ill want to eat later in the week. Do you just buy foods that you know you enjoy and go from there?

I've always hated yogurt too. And I always forced myself to eat it religiously in the mornings sprinnkled with healthy sawdust and flax seeds and chia seeds and whatever kind of healthnut stuff I thought would be a healthy breakfast. It never satisfied me and I was always scrounging for other things. So I completely released myself from the responsibility of eating it just because it was good for me.

....guess what... I crave it now. Not everyday but darn it I want my yogurt now. I can appreciate it now in a real way rather than a "must do" way.

Grocery shopping is very relaxed. I have a habit of going to the market every day. I also have a husband and a kid and must cook for them so it's not just about me. As a family we have a weekly menu:

Monday - vegetarian night
Tuesday - seafood night
Wed - grilled chicken night
Thu - soup night
Fri - pasta or pizza night
Sat - wild card
Sunday - roast or bbq

So I buy everything we need for the dinner we decide. I also tend to pull things off the shelf that appeal to me. Like chips and bread and cookies and stuff. Before that made me guilty. But now I can keep that stuff on my shelf for days before I even tap into it.

Locke
04-13-2014, 06:06 PM
I'm back!

I definitely need the daily reminders to eat sensibly and stop when I'm full. The last few days have been... meh. I haven't binged but I've been consistently overeating. Anyway I guess I needed the reminder that I need this community! :) Glad to be back.

carolr3639
04-14-2014, 01:21 PM
I sometimes don't eat at supper but then in the middle of the night I'm hungry and can't sleep. Is it better to eat something then even if you are not particlarly hungry?

SouthernMaven
04-14-2014, 02:09 PM
I sometimes don't eat at supper but then in the middle of the night I'm hungry and can't sleep. Is it better to eat something then even if you are not particlarly hungry?

First of all, great to see you back! I wondered where you'd been.

Are you asking if you should eat supper even if not hungry at that time to avoid the middle-of-the-night hunger? If so, I would say no. I think it would be better to eat if you wake up, even if it's in the middle of the night. That's just my opinion, though.

I often don't eat "supper" because I might have eaten a very late lunch. I generally don't wake up from hunger but occasionally I do. I don't eat then but that is ONLY because for some strange reason I cannot eat in the middle of the night, no matter how hungry I am.

Strange, I know - but just one of my quirks. Fortunately I rarely wake up hungry.

Locke
04-14-2014, 02:30 PM
I don't eat then but that is ONLY because for some strange reason I cannot eat in the middle of the night, no matter how hungry I am.

I'm the same way. I won't eat in the middle of the night, ever. It's never kept me up for more than a little while, anyway.

Wannabeskinny
04-14-2014, 05:33 PM
First of all, great to see you back! I wondered where you'd been.

Are you asking if you should eat supper even if not hungry at that time to avoid the middle-of-the-night hunger? If so, I would say no. I think it would be better to eat if you wake up, even if it's in the middle of the night. That's just my opinion, though.

I often don't eat "supper" because I might have eaten a very late lunch. I generally don't wake up from hunger but occasionally I do. I don't eat then but that is ONLY because for some strange reason I cannot eat in the middle of the night, no matter how hungry I am.

Strange, I know - but just one of my quirks. Fortunately I rarely wake up hungry.

I agree. I would not eat if you're not hungry. But then again I don't know how sever your middle-of-the-night hunger pangs are.

Usually I will wake up because I ate too late at night or ate too much and that's awful. But I've learned that real stomach hunger is easy to ignore in the middle of the night. If I do wake up hungry at say 2am I promise myself a tall stack of pancakes in the morning :devil:

CindySunshine
04-14-2014, 10:42 PM
Hey guys breezing by but just saw this and thought it rather summer up a lot of what we are trying to say. It was referenced from that Isabel Foxen Duke material I have been following,

Can You Really Be Addicted To Food?
By Jodi Rubin, ACSW, LCSW, CEDS

I am frequently asked about the idea of “food addiction” and have wanted to formally address this idea for quite some time. Then I came across the amazing blog written by Evelyn Tribole, MS, RD and Elyse Resch, MS, RDN, CEDRD, Fiaedp, FADA. You may recognize their names and may even have their amazing book, “Intuitive Eating,” on your bookshelf!

Evelyn addressed the idea of “food addiction” clearly and concisely so I figured why mess with success! Here is her original blog post:

Can You Really Be Addicted To Food?

There has been a lot of media attention on food addiction research. Scientists are curious about this possibility because the brain region (and neurochemicals) involved with substance abuse, are also implicated in overeating. But there are a lot of reasons, other than addiction, that can explain the rewarding aspect of eating.

Survival of the Species - This brain-reward system is believed to be necessary in order to ensure human survival. This involves the brain chemical, dopamine, which triggers both a pleasurable feeling and motivation behavior. Engaging in activities necessary to survival (such as eating and pro-creating) triggers a rewarding-feel-good experience.

Hunger Enhances Reward Value-Hunger by itself, enhances the reward value of food, in which more dopamine is triggered. For example, you might find yourself suddenly interested and motivated to cook a meal, if you discover you are hungry. Dieting (which can be a form of chronic hunger) also has this effect.

Pavlovian Conditioning- The dopamine effect could be attributed to Pavlovian conditioning (recall the classic study, in which Pavlov’s dogs salivated at the mere ringing of a bell. This anticipatory salivation occurred because the dogs were conditioned to receiving a treat after a bell rang, each time). This is not addiction.

Dopamine Deprivation? Many pleasurable activities trigger dopamine, including socializing, hiking, and playing games. The great majority of people I see in my practice who binge-eat, are often leading very unbalanced lives, which “deprives” them of the dopamine benefits. When needs are not being met, food becomes even more enticing, more rewarding.

Music Lights up Dopamine Brain Centers. Recently,a new study showed that when people listen to music, it lights up the same region of the brain (nuclear accumbens), which has been implicated in the euphoric component of psychostimulants, such as cocaine [Salimpoor 2011]. Just the anticipation of hearing the music lit up the dopamine brain centers. (Yet, I really don’t think you can make the case for “music addiction”)

Food Addiction Studies Limited & Flawed-The research on “food addiction” is way too early to be drawing any conclusions. The great majority of studies have been on animals. The limited research on humans has only been brain-imaging studies with a very small amount of people and not much exclusion criteria [Benson 2010].

Yale Food Addiction Questionnaire- has generated a lot of headline news. Yet, upon a closer look, the questionnaire seems to actually be measuring compulsive eating or rebound eating from chronic dieting [Gearhardt 2009]. Here is a sampling of the questions:

I find myself consuming certain foods even though I am no longer hungry. (Classic compulsive eating or distracted eating can cause this).
I worry about cutting down on certain foods. (Chronic dieting and overeating can cause this)
I have spent time dealing with negative feelings from overeating certain foods, instead of spending time in important activities such as time with family, friends, work, or recreation. (Chronic dieting and compulsive eating can cause this)
To read more questions and details on scoring the questionnaire see [ http://abcn.ws/dN8FcI and Gearhardt 2009]

Studies Show Eating “Forbidden Food” Decreases Binge Eating–Finally, there are three studies to date, in which binge eaters, eat their “forbidden foods” as part of the treatment process. [Kristeller 2011, Smitham 2008] Binge eating decreased significantly in all of these studies. If food addiction was a causative issue, you would not expect these types of results. Food addiction theory would predict increased binge eating, triggered by eating “addicting food”. Yet, the opposite happened.

So rather than fear-mongering about food addiction, how about putting your energy into satisfying eating experiences, without distraction or duress; and working on creating a balanced lifestyle, while getting most of your needs met (which includes getting enough sleep).

Selected Citations and Resources

Benton D. The plausibility of sugar addiction and its role in obesity and eating disorders. Clinical Nutrition 29 (2010) 288–303.

Berridge KC & Kringelbach ML. Affective neuroscience of pleasure: reward in humans and animals. Psychopharmacology (Berl). 2008 August ; 199(3): 457–480.

Gearhardt An et al. Preliminary validation of the Yale Food Addiction Scale. Appetite 2009 (52):430-436.

Herrin M & Matsumoto N. The Truth About So Called Sugar Addiction. Eating Disorder News. March 2011.

Kristeller JL, & Wolever RQ (2011). Mindfulness-based eating awareness training for treating binge eating disorder: the conceptual foundation. Jan 2011; Eating disorders, 19 (1), 49-61.

Salimpoor VN. Anatomically distinct dopamine release during anticipation and experience of peak emotion to music. Nature NEUROSCIENCE. Feb 2011;14 (2):257-262.

Smitham.L.Evaluating an Intuitive Eating Program for Binge Eating Disorder: A Benchmarking Study.University of Notre Dame, 26 November 2008.

Reprinted with permission Copyright © 2011 by Evelyn Tribole, MS, RD Published at www.IntuitiveEating.org

•Rights to Reproduce: You may reproduce this post, as long as you leave it unchanged, you don’t charge for it, link to it, and you include the entire copyright statement. Please let us know you have used it by sending a website link or an electronic copy to Etribole at gmail dot com.

DISCLAIMER: The information is intended to inform readers and is not intended to replace specific advice from a health care professional.

Koalifornia21
04-15-2014, 02:46 AM
For any of you that came off a VLCD did you experience any guilt when allowing yourself to eat more?

Today really was a good day for IE, I only ate when I was hungry and I stopped when I was satisfited - but I definitely ate a great deal more than I am used to eating, I didn't count calories or anything but if I was to ballpark I would say maybe around 2100ish. I know that I didn't overeat, but I just feel so darn guilty for letting myself "eat so much" I know that for my height and age and activity I logically probably burn way higher than that..(or at least I think I might?) But I wonder if any of you have tips on how to overcome this feeling?

Pattience
04-15-2014, 03:17 AM
My tip for overcoming guilt about what you are doing is more self education about how it really works. If you really understood that eating an appropriate amount of calories would not cause you to gain weight then you would not feel guilty. But it seems you still don't really believe that eating more will help you.

You probably need to learn more about nutrition and how the body works. You might find my link on the general chatter forum useful. It talks about a concept called homeostasis and how the body works to stabilise your weight rather than allow you to reduce or gain a lot of weight easily. When you understand the concepts and the processes involved you can probably let go your fear about gaining weight more and start to act in ways that are more useful to permanent weightloss.

I would mention that although she doesn't talk about it directly up to the stage of the book that i'm at, there's a lot in common with with IE. She talks about recognising hunger and satiety a lot and tells how one can start to get a grip on these things if you have a habit of ignoring your body and just don't trust yourself with it.

That said i still don't trust myself with sugar and as my strategy against it isn't going to harm my weightloss efforts i see no reason to change it.

in the title of the thread i posted about this stuff, - a book written by Dr Amanda Sainsbury-Salis - a molecular biologist who worked in the field, are the words famine reaction to look out for.

Wannabeskinny
04-15-2014, 08:05 AM
CindySunshine thanks for bringing that up. Before I started IE blaming "food addiction" was very important to me, most likely because it helped ease my guilt over eating. I thought food had addictive properties that I could not overcome. Needless to say, food does have chemical properties so it's not far fetched. Unfortunately this belief made me continuously place blame and is not helpful in addressing MY true problem which is overeating and eating for emotional stress relief and certainly does nothing to alleviate my eating disorder. I wasn't searching for an internal way to solve my problems, it's much much easier to stand on a soap box and blame the government, the food industry, and entire food groups. And doing so puts one in such an agitated state of mind and fear that it becomes absolutely necessary to swear things off. No more salt! No more sugar! No more corn! No more meat! Or whatever you preferred "bad" food is. You almost have to become a zealot to avoid it and I did so for a long time. Now I finally calm, I can be in the same room with a box of cookies for days and not feel like the sugar is evil, or that it's calling my name, or that the sugar industry is trying to make me addicted to it or that I have to get rid of it. I feel peaceful, calm, and in the driver's seat.

Food addiction is the very exact topic I want to speak to my nutritional therapist about today. I want to understand it better and I hope I can contribute more to this discussion later. But basically I struggle with my relationship to carbs but I do not think I am addicted to food. I am addicted to a cycle of eating to alleviate stress and then feeling guilty about it.

Wannabeskinny
04-15-2014, 08:16 AM
For any of you that came off a VLCD did you experience any guilt when allowing yourself to eat more?

Today really was a good day for IE, I only ate when I was hungry and I stopped when I was satisfited - but I definitely ate a great deal more than I am used to eating, I didn't count calories or anything but if I was to ballpark I would say maybe around 2100ish. I know that I didn't overeat, but I just feel so darn guilty for letting myself "eat so much" I know that for my height and age and activity I logically probably burn way higher than that..(or at least I think I might?) But I wonder if any of you have tips on how to overcome this feeling?

Not sure what a VLCD is?

Koali, are you reading any IE books? I'm reading Overcoming Overeating right now and I've just read through a section in Part 3 of the book that talks about the role of guilt. There are many aspects to IE, allowing yourself to eat, mindful eating practices, enjoying food, listening to your hunger signals etc. The part that is most important is allowing yourself to eat without guilt. There is no such thing as having a good day of IE and then feeling guilt. The guilt cancels out the IE. IE is the opposite of guilt. The whole point of IE is to let go of the guilt. And that might mean several days of eating 4000 calories, or it might mean an entire day of eating nothing but chocolate chip cookie dough. This is a lot easier said than done and I'm getting a handle on it now, but I still struggle so I understand.

If you're anything like me, you overeat for reasons other than hunger. For me that's stress. It is a cycle of deflecting stress. This is my cycle: I start to feel an uncomfortable feeling, something that I do not wish to feel. I immediately perceive this as hunger and reach for food. While I eat I enter a different consciousness. At the end I feel guilt and I berate myself with negative thoughts "I'm so fat" "I'm so weak" "why can't I resist the temptation" blah blah blah. When this cycle happens every day for years and years it's easy to assume that my problem is FOOD or FAT and so I focus on dieting and losing weight because I think that's my problem. NO. My real problem is that I continuously skirt around the issues that really bother me, the stress I'm trying to eat away, the uncomfortable situation that is keeping me up at nights, the fight I had with my mother, the work meeting that I'm nervous for, etc etc etc.

So this cycle Uncomfortable feeling -->Hunger---Overeating-->Guilt Is a chain reaction that can be broken. Tackle the guilt first. If you feel the guilt then you have completed the chain reaction. If you take away the guilt the chain is broken, and the overeating is just dangling there, completely meaningless with no purpose and nowhere to go. This is what's happening to me now. Now that I've relieved myself of the guilt my binging has reduced at least 90% I wish I knew how, I just know that it works.

Overcoming Overeating is really good about explaining this guilt thing. Read it!

Wannabeskinny
04-15-2014, 08:19 AM
If you really understood that eating an appropriate amount of calories would not cause you to gain weight then you would not feel guilty. But it seems you still don't really believe that eating more will help you.

You probably need to learn more about nutrition and how the body works.

This is not helpful in terms of IE. Further more koalifornia grew up in a house where nutrition and how the body works was pushed on her from a young age so it's definitely not the case that she doesn't know about it, I'm willing to bet much more than any of us here. The calorie game is simple enough. This is not how we go about addressing guilt in IE.

Pattience
04-15-2014, 08:37 AM
So your idea is tackle the guilt but she's asking you how do you tackle the guilt and all you've said is tackle the guilt. Not very helpful either i would think.

I must say usually try to avoid this sort of tone when responding to posts on this forum respond but you are getting up my nose a bit with your unwarranted sense of superiority and self righteousness as well as sarcasm and so on that comes across in numerous posts you've made to me.

I don't want to give you a panic attack or anything but i think you should get off your high and mighty horse for a bit. I am also an emotional eater. Only i've found a different way to resolve my eating issues.

My post above was not anti IE. And i didn't take a superior tone with the poster. But you seem to have projected such a tone onto my post and now you think its ok to tell me "that's not helpful". I still have to contend that if she doesn't properly understand the processes, guilt from overeating will result.

Anyway i'm not going to come back here and read what else you have to say because i don't think a lot of to and fro debate here is helpful. I just am a bit fed up with your misguided sense of superiority.

Locke
04-15-2014, 02:11 PM
Pattience I think you are reading more into Wannabe's post than what is there. It can be easy to mistake what people are saying on a message board because you don't have things like vocal tone and body language to create a more robust understanding. I don't think Wannabe was coming at you from a place of superiority. We know that koala is struggling (like many of us) from too much information and pressure to have a perfect diet. I know you're trying to be helpful but you may not have all the information because you haven't read all of Koala's posts. She doesn't need to learn any more about nutrition, and it wouldn't be helpful for her to do so at this point. That's all Wannabe was saying.

Guilt is a big ugly word and it's hard to deal with. At this point in my struggle I've given up trying to *not feel* guilt. I just anticipate it, acknowledge it, and let it go. This morning I ate a leftover piece of cake for breakfast. I was starving and it sounded good. I knew that I would feel guilty about it. I ate the cake slowly and enjoyed it. I felt the guilt. I said to myself "yes, I feel guilty for eating this but I have no reason to. I was hungry and I ate cake. It tasted delicious." then I let it go.

I didn't try to stop feeling guilty. I didn't drive the guilt down deep. I felt it, reflected on its presence, and then moved on. The guilt is gone now. All I have is a lingering feeling of having a treat- "hehehe, I got to eat something delicious for breakfast." It is a joyful feeling and a freeing one.

For the record VLCD= very low carb diet. Yes, I feel guilty eating carbs. I also was oil free vegan so I feel guilty eating fat and meat. There are very few foods that I don't feel guilty eating. Alot of it is based on social pressure, too. I live in a very health-conscious part of the country and my workplace is full of people who like to "eat clean". I'm going the opposite direction- I'm trying to feel good about eating cake and top ramen. A delicious challenge! :)

CindySunshine
04-15-2014, 04:18 PM
Yes I think we are compassionately providing gentle reassurance to Koalifornia that there is no reason for the guilt and that helps to get past it.

We are cheering you on, girl!

Koalifornia21
04-15-2014, 07:54 PM
Wannabee, Locke, and Cindy, thank you so much for the support that you have shown me. :^: Sorry I didn't define VLCD - it's a "very low calorie diet". I was eating 1200 and under a lot for the past few months, which I know was way less than I should be.

Wannabee I appreciate your reply! You're right - I do know a ton about nutrition..I grew up learning about hydrogenated oils, fat grams.. calories carbs, artificial sweeteners, exercise.. literally EVERYTHING nutrition or exercise related. So I don't think that feeling guilty comes from a lack of knowledge like Pattience was thinking, but rather too much of it..

I think that the reason I gained weight (which was what prompted me to diet) was that I was stressed a lot during college applications and I turned to food instead of dealing with my emotions. In fact, if I had stopped eating for reasons other than hunger I'm sure I would've lost my extra weight naturally. But I guess that's a lesson learned and at least I won't spend the rest of my life on the diet train if I learn IE now!

I will look into the book you suggested wannabee, it sounds like a good read. I think you guys are right about just acknowledging that feeling guilty about eating is not rational, and that it's a natural thing for people to do in order to survive! I'll just try to push the "guilty" feelings out of my mind by realizing that I REALLY do not need to feel bad about nourishing my own body!

CindySunshine
04-15-2014, 10:35 PM
Atta girl Koali you are getting it!

At the risk of being an over zealous poster I came across this and it really resonates with me. It belongs on that food is pleasure post wannabe made but I like it a lot. For me at least not eating between meals so you are hungry and then you can neatly apply IE principles. I worked with a team in Brussels and many of them were French, little slim things men and women and they really lived like this. The site which I am going to read a number of things on is mindbodygreen .com

10 Eating Rules French Children Know (But Most Americans Don't)

Comments BY REBECA PLANTIER
JANUARY 14, 2014 1:00 PM EST

How the French eat, age, dress, raise their children and live in general is a real talking point these days. So, as an American mother of three half-French kids, I figured I'd add my two cents to the conversation.

I lived in France before becoming a parent, but eventually it was my kids who taught me everything I need to know about eating like a French person: Eating, and staying slim and healthy, isn't just about what you eat, but also how, when and why. Yes, French people enjoy junk food occasionally, and sometimes they eat between meals, but people don’t just let loose every day. There's a code of conduct for food, for big people and little ones alike. Here, in 10 quick life lessons, is what my kids taught me about food.

1. Eat, but not all day long.

Three meals a day, plus the children’s traditional after-school “gouter,” or snack, which might be a pain au chocolat, fruit or applesauce.

When mealtimes roll around, you eat with real pleasure because you’re hungry.

2. Eat real foods and generous portions.

Consuming three meals a day without grazing in between means you can eat well when you sit down at the table — and that includes a starter, main course, cheese and dessert. Portions are generous without going overboard. An example of yesterday’s lunch menu:

Starter course: Lentil salad

Main course: Roasted chicken, green beans

Cheese course: Vanilla yogurt

Dessert: Apple and orange slices … and that was in the public school cafeteria.

3. Choose water.

Generally speaking, the French do not drink their calories. At mealtimes, water (whether still or sparkling) is the drink of choice. Adults might opt for a glass or two of wine, but the glasses aren't the size of fishbowls.

4. Sit down.

It’s rare to see people eating while walking or shopping. There are no cup holders on caddies, or even in most cars. You eat at the table, not in front of the TV or computer screen, then you leave the table and do something else.

5. Eat lighter at night.

Lunchtime is the main event. Dinner is usually light: soups, salads, an omelet, a simple pasta dish. Dessert might be a yogurt or fruit. And you sleep so much better.

6. When the kitchen closes, it's CLOSED.

No grazing after dinner.

7. Know your limit, then stop.

Set eating times help you tune in to when you are really hungry or full.

8. Taste your food, guess the ingredients.

The French don’t just like to eat fabulous food and drink wonderful wine, they love to talk about it. Discussing how something tastes, its ingredients and how it was made heightens awareness; children love to join the conversation. They learn about real food and where it comes from.

9. Get cooking!

Along with an interest in ingredients comes an interest in the actual process of cooking food. With a little coaching, my 2-year-old peeled the apples she picked with her class and happily joined in making a tart. Children love helping put fresh vegetables or pasta into the pot, or making a chocolate cake from scratch. Being part of the process heightens appreciation, and builds good habits for life.

10. Eating well is not a sin; it's a pleasure.

Eating great food — no matter how simple or how elaborate — is one of life’s great pleasures, not an endless guilt trip. Especially when it's in moderation. Once, when we were visiting family in the US, a waitress asked my French husband if he was “done working on that,” referring to his plate of food. His reply: “Eating is a pleasure, mademoiselle, not work!”

Locke
04-15-2014, 11:08 PM
Whoops I had never heard VLC or VLCD refer to calories! Good to know!

CindySunshine
04-16-2014, 06:44 AM
Koali, I just wanted to add that LOTS of people gain the infamous freshman 15. I think it's a combination of breaking free of previous restrictions of all forms (and this would be heightened for you with your home background so focused on food and exercise rules), stress, and a generally unhealthy set of food choices kids in droves eat pizza at night, often lots of alcohol, and when I went to school the dorm food was pretty bad except for the bread and ice cream desserts. I ate many many big squares of cornbread!

IE is not "just eating". Our biology tells us to EAT when food is available and so overeating is well, intuitive. What we learn to do is to use a few guidelines to resist and find a better way to eat.

So it's not like your coping with food is unusual at all.

Just for interest are you exercising?

Wannabeskinny
04-16-2014, 08:33 AM
Koali i think you're on the right track concerning dieting, don't follow in our footsteps. Looking back at my life I was happiest and thinnest when I wasn't weighing myself, counting calories, and eating everything I wanted. It wasn't until I started hankering down on forced nutritional reading and dieting that the weight started to pile on. I was never skinny, but I remember not even knowing what I weighed when I was getting married or when I graduated from college or when I got my first job. For a long time I thought I was in denial but in reality I was just content. I wish I could go back to the time when I didn't know what a carb is, or a calorie. You can't unlearn these things but you can make peace with them.

Guilt is a tricky sucker. I don't know if my reply was helpful to you in terms of how to deal with guilt, I'm just learning how to deal with it myself. Simply knowing that I have to get rid of it and knowing that it's the one thing that's keeping me back is enough to tackle it. I tackle it the good old fashioned way, by stopping it in its tracks. It's theatrical at first like I'm just going through the motions but over time it's gotten much easier. I'm not like Locke, I don't let it just happen, I did at first as I was just curiously observing my guilt but now I'm in attack mode. Everytime I start to feel guilt I stop and counter it with a completely opposite thought. I don't know how or why but it works.

Wannabeskinny
04-16-2014, 08:37 AM
CindySunshine that's an awesome list, boy do we love the French around here lol. Ou la la!

I spoke to my nutritional therapist yesterday about food addiction. She said the body of research on food addiction is very small and it's incredibly difficult to conduct controlled studies. Basically, it's a non issue for her. I'm also exploring my fixed ideas about carbs and she debunks it too. I told her that I really believe that if I lowered my carb intake I would lose weight and she said while that may be true for a while it's unsustainable. She went on to say that in all the years she's been in her profession she has yet to meet someone on a low carb diet that is able to sustain it lifelong and that the intent of low-carbing keeps one in a continual diet mind set.

Wannabeskinny
04-16-2014, 08:55 AM
Also with my nutritional therapist we reviewed my goals and it put things into perspective. I still make a lot of judgements on what I eat. Thankfully the guilt is going down but I do have a hard time critiquing my meals without getting negative. So I laid out my nutritional goals to her and they were this:

- eat vegetables at every meal (to which she responded that it's an unrealistic and unecessary goal, that if I eat vegetables at some meals then it should be enough.
- eat less carbs (to which she replied WHY!?? and how it is necessary for me to eat enough carbs to sustain my seratonin levels and keep me out of falling into depressive episodes like before)
- think about food less (to which she replied that we're getting there and it's an inevitable part of the process)
- to lose weight (to which she replied "don't focus on weight loss, that will keep you in the diet mind set and derail you")
- to crave healthy foods (to which she said "based on your meals you already do that")

Anyway, it was a good session and it seems I've come a lot farther than I allowed myself to hope for. I don't like to feel smug but I have gotten a lot better and the significant decrease of my binging is proof of that. What she said that made me very hopeful is that I am on my way to curing my eating disorder, that it can be done, that she's witnessed many many women with different forms of eating disorders be cured by this.

Now my entire focus needs to be off weight loss and completely centered around making each meal satisfying, and allowing myself to feel satisfied by it. It's a nice change to think of food this way.

SouthernMaven
04-16-2014, 09:43 AM
I told her that I really believe that if I lowered my carb intake I would lose weight and she said while that may be true for a while it's unsustainable. She went on to say that in all the years she's been in her profession she has yet to meet someone on a low carb diet that is able to sustain it lifelong and that the intent of low-carbing keeps one in a continual diet mind set.

I totally agree with this. I've personally known several people who've lost a lot of weight on low-carb, and they have all gained it back. It is such a difficult WOE to maintain, in my opinion.

It sounds as if this nutritionist truly understands IE. I am so glad you are able to meet with her, and I appreciate your sharing all of this with us. It is so helpful.

CindySunshine
04-16-2014, 10:03 AM
I have a friend who has lost about 50 pounds on Adkins and she has kept it off. She diligently weighs herself everyday and is constantly fighting 5-10 pounds. She continually goes back on induction and despite walking a huge amount she fights it ALL THE TIME. She lives in constant fear of her carb sensitivity and all in all it sure is not a mode I would have any desire to emulate.

Locke
04-16-2014, 12:59 PM
Hello All,

Wannabe- thank you so much for taking the time to share. Hearing what your nutritionist says is very helpful.

I just wanted to check in with you guys. I've been struggling a bit with some emotional issues. I've been feeling tired, irritable, sad, etc. on and off. I know that some of it's my long schedule, being burnt out from grad school, and lacking a social support network. I also do a bit too much navel gazing and worrying about it and it becomes cyclical. I also think I've been caught in the dieting mindset, too, just a bit more subtle. I've been trying to get really hungry for meals, sometimes intentionally not eating for long periods of time. I'm still a bit stuck on trying to eat how thin people eat instead of how my own body wants me to eat.

So for the next few weeks I'm really going to concentrate on eating nourishing meals until I'm full. I don't think I've been letting myself get full enough at each meal then I get ravenously hungry and feel guilty for needing to eat again. I'm also going to try Wannabe's technique for countering guilt. Instead of thinking "god why do I need to eat again?" I'm just going to eat. I'm also going to back off of alot of the junk food, not because I don't think I should eat it but seems to cause crashes in my blood sugar that are bad for my emotional health.

Anyway I'm off to my parents for the weekend. That in itself will be a trial for my sanity. :) I'm grateful to have you ladies around.

CindySunshine
04-16-2014, 02:31 PM
Locke, I wish we could go out for coffee... Do you get enough of a break in your school routine to fit in some other interest? Join a group for a book club, start an organic vegetable garden, take up knitting or photography? Taking pictures of birds sounds nice. It seems like something very different from your school might be a nice break. For me it helps to simply prepare three meals that are reasonably healthy and sound good to get in the groove. You can practice IE at them and it doesn't need to be perfect. I know for sure it's hard though when you are busy and stressed with work or school or whatever.

Wannabe very interesting comments from your nutrition specialist. It all is so common sense, that's what I like about the whole thing. I do know that if I overeat carbs especially stuff like bread, potato chips, crackers it takes me several days to detox. Sugar, too. But after I get past that they don't bother me in moderation with a healthy balanced meal. I am just not one for mashed cauliflower I would rather have mashed potatoes occasionally and roast the cauliflower!

Wannabeskinny
04-16-2014, 03:27 PM
Yes the best thing about cauliflower is its wonderful texture. I hate to mash it up but I do like a good cauliflower purťe soup with Indian spices. Frankly though I'll take the potatoes over any of them hehe.

Locke
04-16-2014, 03:28 PM
Cindy,

I was just thinking about how I'd like to have a bit more regularity with meals. I do have down time each week just not the normal amount I guess you'd say. Then again Americans tend to be so overscheduled maybe I'm just average. I'm trying to figure out a breakfast that works well for me. I like really filling breakfasts that aren't too carby- scrambled eggs and toast, for instance. Unfortunately I leave the house at 5:30am and eat breakfast at work, which makes it a little bit more difficult to get in a good sized breakfast that isn't full of carbs.

I'm thinking of making a breakfast casserole this weekend and bringing in slices of it to work- scrambled eggs, potatoes, sausage, cheese, peppers, onion, etc. That's quite filling and I can reheat it at work. Then something simple like roast chicken and vegetables for lunch and a light dinner. I've been living off the bagels and breakfast burritos from a deli down the street but it's getting too expensive and I find that carbs for breakfast for me is not a good deal.

Locke
04-16-2014, 05:48 PM
I wanted to share a comment with you all from Reddit. This was directed a a young man with social anxiety but I think it applies to anyone who is trying to make a life change:

"Take care of yourself. Don't think of yourself as just 1 being. Think of yourself as a tiny bird that you need to muster strength for. Think of yourself as a fragile chicklet that needs to be nurtured and strengthened. Love yourself like somebody that you would want to meet and hang around with. And of course, remember to do it slowly. Very, ****ing slowly. Because if you race forward too fast, you're only going to hurt yourself faster.

And when that progress stops, it will hurt. Progress cannot continue on a straight path forever. It will meander. Some days it'll feel like you went back four steps. You'll start working out for a week, and you'll be doing well at school, and then suddenly a month goes by where you did nothing again. Where you ran back into your cave and feared the world, because you hated yourself. But remember, pitfalls are all just part of life. There is no failure. As long as you get back up again and try, things will never be over. So after a month or two months or half a year of hurting again, you'll get back up, because you'll get sick of being stuck, and you'll start moving forward again, and you'll start remembering all the lessons that you've taught yourself all over again, and then you'll progress once more, and then you'll fall, and then you'll hide, and then you'll get stuck, and then you'll start moving forward once more and everything will go on forever. But each time, it'll be a little be farther, a little bit easier, and you'll feel a little bit better. Cause that's how life goes.

The final piece of advice I have is this: Breath. Every time you do anything, any little thing, take a long breath and live in the now. Try to enjoy the moment of whatever you are doing. Try to enjoy the small and fine details of the process, instead of worrying about results and pride. People don't give a ****. Just make sure to take care of yourself. That is all that is asked of you.
Breath, enjoy, and love.

Good luck. And remember to have fun."

Wannabeskinny
04-16-2014, 07:47 PM
Thanks for sharing that Locke, it's a good reminder that progress doesn't always take you forward.

And along the lines of our recent discussions about French people here's an article I found today titled What France Can Teach The Rest Of The World About Living Well
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2014/04/15/france-living-well_n_5148599.html?ir=OWN

Koalifornia21
04-16-2014, 08:32 PM
Just for interest are you exercising?

Hi Cindy, I used to run cross-country and track, but I got really tired of that level of exercise so now I have a much more moderate routine.

Monday - Thursday: I walk 2 to 3 miles a day
Friday: I take a yoga class
Saturday: I go hiking for about 6 to 7 miles.

So far that's been my "exercise" routine, but it's sustainable for me and it involves walking and yoga which are two things I really enjoy! I'm really trying to focus on enjoying the exercise itself rather than thinking of it as a "calorie burner".

Koalifornia21
04-17-2014, 06:33 AM
Hey everyone, I was looking around on some of the older IE blogs and found a post referencing this website. http://www.youreatopia.com/faq/specific-recovery-questions/what-is-quasi-recovery-and-why-is-it-bad-or-not.html

She recommends that if you are a woman under the age of 25 who has spent time starving / restricting to eat at least 2500-3000 Calories a day in order to repair your metabolism. Now I'm not interested in counting calories again, but what do you all think about that suggestion? Do you think it may really take eating that amount for me to fully reverse the damage I did to my metabolism?

Wannabeskinny
04-17-2014, 07:37 AM
Hey everyone, I was looking around on some of the older IE blogs and found a post referencing this website. http://www.youreatopia.com/faq/specific-recovery-questions/what-is-quasi-recovery-and-why-is-it-bad-or-not.html

She recommends that if you are a woman under the age of 25 who has spent time starving / restricting to eat at least 2500-3000 Calories a day in order to repair your metabolism. Now I'm not interested in counting calories again, but what do you all think about that suggestion? Do you think it may really take eating that amount for me to fully reverse the damage I did to my metabolism?

I took a quick look around on this site and my instinct tells me to beware. After reading the author's biography it is unclear if she is a doctor or medical professional of any kind. The kind of advice that you are considering seems arbitrary to me, eat a certain amount of calories to repair your metabolism? Firstly, a broken metabolism is quite rare, I'm almost certain your metabolism is fine. I haven't thought to ask you before because my perception of you is that you struggle with a few pounds, excessive knowledge of nutritional info, guilt after eating, and a dysfunctional aspect of your relationship with your mother concerning food (not saying your relationship with your mom is dysfunctional in general, only the conversations you have about food).

One of the hardest steps of IE is legalizing food. I don't suggest you do this without at least having a reference to be reading along with it. It feels like falling off a cliff and it's hard to psych yourself up for it without a little support from friends and resources. You have to realize that you deserve to eat, you deserve to eat anything you want, and that it won't lead to self destruction. You're young and you already understand how destructive dieting can be. You're on the edge of doing this, but you haven't committed to it yet. I'm not pushing you to do so, only trying to share with you that it's not so bad once you go through that initial legalization of food. The site you posted tells you to quantify your food to fix some mechanical problem in your body. That's not IE! IE tells us there's nothing wrong with our body and just feed it freely so that IT can start to trust us again. I hope this makes sense, my coffee's a little weak this morning.

CindySunshine
04-17-2014, 08:24 AM
Yes I agree with Wannabe. I think numbers are arbitrary but 1200 is probably too low. It's a different game for people dangerously underweight and anorexic and even the new Tribole book talks about them requiring a different kind of treatment to get over that life threatening situation. And I think it's important not to stuff food in to meet any kind of rule be it calories or salad fillers or numbers of vegetable servings. Learning to stop as you get to that comfortable fully satisfied but not overfull point is really the whole game (along with allowing yourself to be fully hungry so it makes sense). You aren't seriously underweight.

And your exercise is great just so you are doing something active and regular and enjoyable Yoga and walking are my two key exercises as well. I love Pilates and do a floor routine I can do at home and I have started a strength routine that I'm doing at home. Lunges, squats, push-ups, and step ups with weights on a stool go a long way to helping without taking much time. I knew that barbell set my sons got when they were in high school would come in handy someday. It seemed for years all I ever did was move it around to clean around it LOL.

Wannabeskinny
04-17-2014, 08:39 AM
I made a post in the Chicks in Control thread of an interview with Isabel Foxen Duke about bikini season diets. I love what she had to say and wish we could have heard more from her. But I was a little sad to hear a nutritionist talk. Her statements were so conflicting on me, is it just me or are some nutritionists really out of tune with what women go through?

One one hand she says "diets don't work" and then next she says "eat 6 meals a day" then she says "dieting will make you crash" and then says "we need to eat good food that nourishes the inside of our body." Technically I do not disagree with anyone who says eating seasonally, locally, fresh foods and lots of veggies. I struggle so much with this concept of nourishing my mind and nourishing my body.

Koalifornia21
04-17-2014, 12:03 PM
I took a quick look around on this site and my instinct tells me to beware. After reading the author's biography it is unclear if she is a doctor or medical professional of any kind. The kind of advice that you are considering seems arbitrary to me, eat a certain amount of calories to repair your metabolism? Firstly, a broken metabolism is quite rare, I'm almost certain your metabolism is fine. I haven't thought to ask you before because my perception of you is that you struggle with a few pounds, excessive knowledge of nutritional info, guilt after eating, and a dysfunctional aspect of your relationship with your mother concerning food (not saying your relationship with your mom is dysfunctional in general, only the conversations you have about food).

One of the hardest steps of IE is legalizing food. I don't suggest you do this without at least having a reference to be reading along with it. It feels like falling off a cliff and it's hard to psych yourself up for it without a little support from friends and resources. You have to realize that you deserve to eat, you deserve to eat anything you want, and that it won't lead to self destruction. You're young and you already understand how destructive dieting can be. You're on the edge of doing this, but you haven't committed to it yet. I'm not pushing you to do so, only trying to share with you that it's not so bad once you go through that initial legalization of food. The site you posted tells you to quantify your food to fix some mechanical problem in your body. That's not IE! IE tells us there's nothing wrong with our body and just feed it freely so that IT can start to trust us again. I hope this makes sense, my coffee's a little weak this morning.

Yeah, the fact that she wasn't a medical professional did leave me a little wary. I've never really thought I had a metabolism problem, but I've always heard that dieting can really mess up your metabolism so I wasn't sure if mine will be slower now
that I dieted. I guess it all comes back to trusting my body to tell me the amounts and what to eat and it will take care of itself.

The legalizing process is a difficult one, but I have definitely been allowing myself to eat any food I want. I have the trioble IE book and I followed their advice about buying your previous binge foods and letting yourself eat when you are hungry and stop when you are full. I have also read overfed head which I found to be really helpful as well.

I guess I was looking at that website because I wanted justification for the amount I
have been eating some days. But since I was hungry for that amount, and didn't overeat past fullness than clearly my body is the only justification I need, not some website!

Locke
04-17-2014, 03:44 PM
Well I do eat healthy about 80% of the time but not for the sake of health. I buy fresh fruits, vegetables, grains, and meats. I do a lot of my own cooking. I don't do it to be healthy but because it's more economical and tasty. I'm tired of apologizing to the world because I'm fat. I'm acutely aware at all times that I am obese. I don't like eating out at restaurants or eating in front of people because of that. I was with my last boyfriend for four months and I never ate with him. Ever. That's ridiculous! The other day I ordered a small soda at a cafe to go with my lamb sandwich. They gave me one of those giant 32oz cups full of soda. I almost had a panic attack sitting there with a giant soda in front of me thinking about all the people who would be judging me for drinking that thing even though I hadn't even ordered it. The world didn't end, even though I was shaking like a leaf and ate more quickly than I would have normally so I could leave.

I'm so sick of caring what other people think about me. I want to live my life and not give a f**k about what goes on in other peoples' heads. I've spent the last several years not eating in public or only eating super healthy food and then binging in secret. No more. I'm going to eat what I want- at first this meant eating my binge foods. Then I realized that I don't even like them that much. I really don't like orange chicken and mountain dew. I prefer runny cheeses, pickles, and fresh sourdough bread. I like fresh fruits and vegetables. I'd rather have a small piece of filet mignon than a bagful of dollar menu items from mcdonald's hastily eaten in my car on the drive home. I eat what tastes good and what makes me feel good. Sometimes that's a donut and sometimes it's fruit and greek yogurt. What's important is that it's what I want, not what anybody else thinks I should eat.

CindySunshine
04-17-2014, 10:31 PM
Locke I so agree you deserve peace and happiness.

Your pouring out is brave and has to be a start in the right direction. What good can the guilt and shame possibly do. Maybe something like that coaching thing I just found might help establishing the right kind of basis for the relationship with food is the first step and as your confidence with eating consistently in a comfortable way will provide a basis for the self confidence to work on the other social issues.

I wish you peace and the happiness and a path forward you so surely deserve in the many years ahead. This is the time to get to the bottom of it once and for all.

SouthernMaven
04-18-2014, 12:04 AM
I'm so sick of caring what other people think about me. I want to live my life and not give a f**k about what goes on in other peoples' heads.

I remember back when I was much younger and feeling the very same way, Locke.

This is probably not much help, but I just wanted to let you know that the older you get, the less you care about what other people think about you. I think age, more than anything else, does this for you.

I used to agonize over what people thought about me. Now, I could not care less. I know people younger than me who have gotten to that stage much earlier than I did. I really noticed myself changing in this regard around age 40 or so, but each year brings with it less and less concern about how others perceive you. I guess that's why you see all these little old ladies (and men too) just speaking their minds. When I was younger I just thought it was a form of dementia - I mean, why would they say such outlandish things? But nope, it's just them not giving a d**n about what other people think.

And the saddest thing of all is when I see people my age (and older) who still DO care - and care deeply - what other people think of them. And then live their lives accordingly.

How miserable those people must be.

Wannabeskinny
04-18-2014, 08:20 AM
As women we are taught at a young age that we're supposed to care about what other people think of us and we're always supposed to be nice. So this is particularly difficult for women to overcome even in old age. But I agree with you SM, I find that as I get older (although not 40yet), I care less and less about what people think.

Especially now that i'm doing IE. Before I did IE I hardly ever spoke about my diets or my eating disorder. Now I'm a bit more open about it and I make references to it. Not sure why other than the fact that I feel like I'm on the road to recovery and I finally don't feel complete and utter shame about it.

Koalifornia21
04-19-2014, 03:15 PM
Hello Everyone,

I've been practicing IE for about 3 weeks now and Ive gone from 118 lbs to a smidge over 127 lbs. That's a gain of about 9 lbs.

I'm not panicking or anything, if that's what my body thinks is the right weight for me than that's where I'll stay. My question though, is after three weeks can that possibly be water weight? Or is that just fat now?

Also, how long did it take you on your IE journey before your weight stabilized and you stopped gaining? I know that this is personal for everyone, but even a ballpark figure would be nice to know.

I know that the scale can be triggering for some - but I find that it is a useful tool, and as such I don't see a reason to stop using it. I have read from other IE'rs that they also use the scale still without problems.

CindySunshine
04-19-2014, 03:44 PM
I actually think if you can use the scale and not let it bother you at all it's great. Lots of trim people don't worry about it they hop on and off and so well what do you know now I weigh x without any judgement.

In terms of where you will end up I don't think there is a meaningful rule of thumb it depends on where you start and how you move into a comfortable pattern. In the end the more you eat healthy and exercise the trimmer you will be, but you have to enjoy it not be restricting at all. For me and for wannabe and Locke we all started at higher weights than we wanted and were looking for a downward trend. You are eating upward to a comfortable number, It also matters how much of the making peace with restricted food thing you need to go through until you are past needing the junky stuff excessively. I was through that a long time ago. For me I'd say I leveled out in a couple months but you know I've only been doing it well for 4 months or so we shall see.

Probably not all that helpful to you...I was watching a YouTube video of Evelyn Tribole speaking in October of 2013 at Iowa University group and she said all things being equal by all means make the healthier food choice.

I think you will start to sense when you feel you are eating comfortably and then after a few months you will probably be there.

Wannabeskinny
04-19-2014, 05:39 PM
Koali I notice you ask this type of question a lot. "How long before xyz happens." There's no answer to that question because this is not a quantitative process. Asking it also makes you result-driven when it's not necessary. This is process driven. Asking these questions slows down the whole process by disabling you to focus on your current eating experiences. It's easy to turn IE into a diet. There are no rules but you do have to be compliant to the process and release yourself from these questions for which there are no answers. Eventually things will shift and it will get easier. I can understand that it is frightening to see a gain. I only gained 4 and then lost it and it was distressing for me too. Now the trend is downward.

CindySunshine
04-19-2014, 07:11 PM
And I think weight over time is going to go up or down slightly depending on where you are physically and emotionally but the point is I would be a slow trend up or down not the out of control, binge regain which is utterly unsatisfying. I intend to enjoy my food from here forward.

Koalifornia21
04-19-2014, 11:46 PM
Koali I notice you ask this type of question a lot. "How long before xyz happens." There's no answer to that question because this is not a quantitative process. Asking it also makes you result-driven when it's not necessary. This is process driven. Asking these questions slows down the whole process by disabling you to focus on your current eating experiences. It's easy to turn IE into a diet. There are no rules but you do have to be compliant to the process and release yourself from these questions for which there are no answers. Eventually things will shift and it will get easier. I can understand that it is frightening to see a gain. I only gained 4 and then lost it and it was distressing for me too. Now the trend is downward.

I can understand what you're saying - I do need to focus more on the process not the immediate results. This is a time to learn to enjoy food - and relegate it to a normal place in my life.

I was honestly surprised by how much my weight gain didn't upset me. Before IE a number like that might have brought me to tears, I wouldn't have gone out all day; but today I saw it and just thought "eh, it may be higher, but at least I'm not hungry all the time anymore and I've had so much more free time now that I'm not hung up on food." I would rather be at a higher-ish weight where I can eat and feel full than at 118 where I thought about food all day long and was always feeling faint and starving.

I think the hardest part for me is NOT knowing xyz will happen. If someone told me "you're going to gain weight until you hit 130 then your body will settle" or something like that it would be so much easier. But unfortunately this is one of those things that only time will tell and I've always struggled with being patient - part of the reason low cal diets appealed to me. I guess I'll just have to let the months pass and let my body sort itself out.

If anything this taught me that diets really DON'T work. I would have stopped restricting eventually and given over to complete binges. If I gained this much without binges I can't even imagine how much weight I would have put back on with binging - likely higher than when I started dieting.

SouthernMaven
04-20-2014, 07:18 AM
I was honestly surprised by how much my weight gain didn't upset me. Before IE a number like that might have brought me to tears, I wouldn't have gone out all day; but today I saw it and just thought "eh, it may be higher, but at least I'm not hungry all the time anymore and I've had so much more free time now that I'm not hung up on food." I would rather be at a higher-ish weight where I can eat and feel full than at 118 where I thought about food all day long and was always feeling faint and starving.



I know this feeling! I don't use a scale so I have no idea what my current weight is, but I honestly don't care. I can tell that some days it's higher than others, but I'm so much more comfortable in my own skin now that I don't have that constant, nagging voice in the back of my head asking me "Do you know how much food you've eaten today??? Are you crazy???" or even "Wow, you were sooo good today! You ate healthy and exercised - why can't you do that ALL THE TIME???" "Good" days or "bad" days, it made no difference - I was always berating myself.

It's so nice not to be thinking about food 24/7, isn't it? Getting up from one meal and planning the next one. Not being able to enjoy the company you're in for worrying about whether or not you will be able to stay "on plan."

What a nightmarish life. I, for one, am done. with. it.

Wannabeskinny
04-20-2014, 09:00 AM
I can understand what you're saying - I do need to focus more on the process not the immediate results. This is a time to learn to enjoy food - and relegate it to a normal place in my life.

I was honestly surprised by how much my weight gain didn't upset me. Before IE a number like that might have brought me to tears, I wouldn't have gone out all day; but today I saw it and just thought "eh, it may be higher, but at least I'm not hungry all the time anymore and I've had so much more free time now that I'm not hung up on food." I would rather be at a higher-ish weight where I can eat and feel full than at 118 where I thought about food all day long and was always feeling faint and starving.

I think the hardest part for me is NOT knowing xyz will happen. If someone told me "you're going to gain weight until you hit 130 then your body will settle" or something like that it would be so much easier. But unfortunately this is one of those things that only time will tell and I've always struggled with being patient - part of the reason low cal diets appealed to me. I guess I'll just have to let the months pass and let my body sort itself out.

If anything this taught me that diets really DON'T work. I would have stopped restricting eventually and given over to complete binges. If I gained this much without binges I can't even imagine how much weight I would have put back on with binging - likely higher than when I started dieting.

I'm sorry if my post was harsh, I was having a bad day yesterday and didn't mean to sound so quaggy. I would say you're doing a great job and that the beginning stages of IE are the most difficult but I'm confident that you will come through it. How I wish that I could tell you that now the pounds are melting off but they're not yet, I can't quantify it like that. All I know is that I'm more relaxed around food, I'm thinking about it less and less, I'm making better choices for no reason other than I just feel like it, and my binging behavior has reduced drastically. I too am still dependent on the scale, but far far less than I was when I was dieting. This morning for example I lost another 2lbs since last week and it's taking all my might not to rejoice or react to it with some sort of action.

I'm a 200lb woman, and the truth is you are already at what I consider a socially acceptable weight. I don't know how to advise you about weight loss because I can't help but think how nice it would be to weight 127lbs myself. But I know that food issues run independent of weight and I know fully well that my issues and your issues are not dissimilar. Your body may want to be in the 120's and that may be a truth you'll have to come to terms with. I don't know where my body will settle but for both us of these facts are inconsequential. Our focus should be our relationship with ourselves and food, and making sure we can face food and the mirror on a daily basis regardless of what we weigh, don't you think? I suppose that if I had to make a choice between being thin and having my food issues or being at my current weight without food issues I'd choose my current weight. The freedom of food anxiety is much too enjoyable than maintaining a low weight with food stress.

Wannabeskinny
04-20-2014, 09:19 AM
Some of the posts in other threads can be so depressing. I never want to go back to feeling that way again. It's hard to watch other people struggle with so much self-negativity. All this talk of taking control of their diet, getting back on the wagon, failing the diet is so illogical to me now that I can't imagine how I lived my life like that for so long. Recently a new poster came on board with a history of eating disorders looking for diet and exercise tips who refused any advice about ED treatment and instead wants to focus on dieting. It's heart breaking.

CindySunshine
04-20-2014, 04:21 PM
Wannabe hoping your holiday and stressful period are progressing with too much anxiety one way or the other.

I cooked Easter dinner here and we just finished, I really was not intuitive I just ate and it was mustard / brown sugar glazed ham, goldenrod toast ( a family tradition here anybody heard of it?! ) basically hard boiled egg whites chopped and folded into white sauce over toast with the yolks crumbled on top. We has beans, garden corn, baked onions, and a carrot cake that was much like a fruitcake very dense and moist and a heavy layer of cream cheese icing. Oh my, I just ate. I am very full not uncomfortably stuffed but I could have eaten far less and been satisfied! Oh well tis a holiday.

Wannabeskinny
04-20-2014, 10:41 PM
I've never heard of goldenrod toast, that sounds unique! What part of the country is known for this?

We're mellowing out after a long stressful holiday. We host a big fat greek party here at my house complete with a whole lamb on a spit and all the greek delicacies you would expect, spinach pies, stuffed grape leaves, greek salads and dips, greek lasagna, and grilled sausages. I was bustling busy all day prepping things and racked up 10,000 steps and 27 flights of stairs without even leaving my house lol. I ate a good solid breakfast and barely ate during the party. I picked at things but didn't want much, I don't even eat lamb. After everyone left and I did a thorough cleanup I sat and had a nice piece of lasagna and thoroughly enjoyed every bite. I can't eat during my own parties, if I can't enjoy it and pay attention to it then I don't want to eat it. I'm finding myself not wanting to eat unless I can pay adequate attention to my food. I've been practicing mindful eating for a while now and I can't seem to muster up my ability to eat mindlessly anymore.

Koalifornia21
04-21-2014, 03:47 AM
I'm sorry if my post was harsh, I was having a bad day yesterday and didn't mean to sound so quaggy. I would say you're doing a great job and that the beginning stages of IE are the most difficult but I'm confident that you will come through it. How I wish that I could tell you that now the pounds are melting off but they're not yet, I can't quantify it like that. All I know is that I'm more relaxed around food, I'm thinking about it less and less, I'm making better choices for no reason other than I just feel like it, and my binging behavior has reduced drastically. I too am still dependent on the scale, but far far less than I was when I was dieting. This morning for example I lost another 2lbs since last week and it's taking all my might not to rejoice or react to it with some sort of action.

I'm a 200lb woman, and the truth is you are already at what I consider a socially acceptable weight. I don't know how to advise you about weight loss because I can't help but think how nice it would be to weight 127lbs myself. But I know that food issues run independent of weight and I know fully well that my issues and your issues are not dissimilar. Your body may want to be in the 120's and that may be a truth you'll have to come to terms with. I don't know where my body will settle but for both us of these facts are inconsequential. Our focus should be our relationship with ourselves and food, and making sure we can face food and the mirror on a daily basis regardless of what we weigh, don't you think? I suppose that if I had to make a choice between being thin and having my food issues or being at my current weight without food issues I'd choose my current weight. The freedom of food anxiety is much too enjoyable than maintaining a low weight with food stress.

Hi Wannabee,
No worries, we all have stressful days!

While the scale didn't bother me at all, today I wore a pair of my skinny jeans and they were TIGHT as in not comfortable. And they used to fit just right. I don't know why they bothered me so much while the scale didn't affect me. For right now is it probably best not to wear my skinny/tight clothes? Honestly wearing them today made me feel rather down on myself. :(...... I guess I just have to keep reminding myself that my clothing size is not what makes me a pretty or good person!

CindySunshine
04-21-2014, 08:39 AM
Wannabe how excellent. The appreciation of mindfulness is so terrific you are sure making amazing progress. Great to watch.

Koali tight clothes are a bad thing for me. And everybody looks worse in too tight clothes. Wear something you feel good in. It is easy to replace the scale with skinny jeans, I do that and it can be equally as destructive.

I didn't do very well at all the last several days not in tune with my body and I do not want that to continue. I'm trying to figure out the best way to snap myself back around. Years ago I used to what I called "fruit flushes" with smoothies (equal parts orange juice, skim milk, plain yogurt and 1/2 cup frozen fruit). I never thought of them as a way to lose weight but they just unburdened me of that heavy eating too much feeling and I got sincerely hungry again. My husband is going out of town this week and I may do a day or that. It is amazing how you can lose the good feeling of eating IE right and get into eating unmindfully so easily.

Yoga at 9 and a walk today, too.

Wannabeskinny
04-21-2014, 11:11 AM
I didn't do very well at all the last several days not in tune with my body and I do not want that to continue. I'm trying to figure out the best way to snap myself back around.

It's normal to have ups and downs. What's not normal is running with it when you're down. I've done that too much. My ups and downs are not drastic anymore since I've been doing IE. Fresh food cleanses are great for me too, sometimes I feel heavy from whatever I ate the day before in a physical and mental sense and I resign myself to salad. I have to crave the salad though. But eating something completely fresh and raw is a great pick me up, I feel like it oxygenates my body (does that make sense?) and then able to move forward with my hunger. I also found that if things are getting hectic I have to literally force myself to have a mindful meal.

Yesterday my morning was very hectic. I had a lot to do to prep for the party and I had already planned out a very good breakfast (left over steak and eggs!) Everytime I went to prepare it someone would run into the kitchen requesting my full attention for the party prep. I kept getting diverted from even making my breakfast. When I finally had the opportunity I took it. I sat down to eat and wouldn't you know it someone needed me urgently in the back yard for some crisis. I made to stand up and then sat and calmly said "I'm sorry, I really can't do anything until I finish my breakfast, I'll be quick and I'll be there soon but I need to finish first." It takes a lot for me to say something like that, when there seems to be an emergency and I'm so proud of myself for taking the time to do that. Because my breakfast was so hearty I was free not to be distracted by food thoughts and hunger during the party and felt less anxious and more stable all day long.

I took it even further than that and set aside time for myself to pretty up. Usually at these affairs I throw my hair in a pony tail and put on sneakers so I can run around. I took thirty minutes to quickly shower, choose something pretty to wear, fixed my hair and makeup, and even wore some jewelry. I look good in all the photos, much different than my usual disheveled mess and doing so did not cause me to fail in my duties as a hostess. I felt a lot more relaxed during the party too, is it strange that I'm attributing all this to IE?

CindySunshine
04-21-2014, 08:02 PM
You are taking of yourself, respecting yourself at all levels and managing the demands on you in the right way. How absolutely heart warming. High fives to you, wannabe!

I didn't do the cleanse today and my eating was so so, but I had a healthy salad and simple pork chop for dinner which tasted just right I feel calm and satisfied.

I have decided to pick up knitting again. I ordered the yarn and spent the afternoon remembering how to do it, finished the front of my little purse. The back is the same, it gets lined and then you add bamboo handles. The yarn is actually nearly white with a metallic thread that picks up many colors that don't show in the image very well. The pattern image is after my piece, but I want the wood to show on the tops of the handles. It was so soothing, my husband is out of town and it rained. Just what the doctor ordered today. :)

http://i16.photobucket.com/albums/b50/CindyBertinetti/th_20140421_172137.jpg (http://s16.photobucket.com/user/CindyBertinetti/media/20140421_172137.jpg.html)

http://i16.photobucket.com/albums/b50/CindyBertinetti/th_imagejpg1-2.jpg (http://s16.photobucket.com/user/CindyBertinetti/media/imagejpg1-2.jpg.html)

CindySunshine
04-21-2014, 08:18 PM
How about a couple visuals while I'm at the pic thing! First one is me with my husband Rick, my two sons David to my left and Jason with his wife, my lovely daughter in law Laura, the pretty TALL blonde and daughter I always wanted. Then one of me and Jason and the last one we took last week in St Louis with my husband and the foxy blonde ( not me, the cutie on the left LOL ) is my niece Jennifer who performs on dueling pianos at Howl at the Moon she is very talented!! And the last one is my princess Shih Tzu, Muffin. ;)

PS these are thumbnails so you can make them bigger by clicking on them.
http://i16.photobucket.com/albums/b50/CindyBertinetti/th_20140315_181606.jpg (http://s16.photobucket.com/user/CindyBertinetti/media/20140315_181606.jpg.html)
http://i16.photobucket.com/albums/b50/CindyBertinetti/th_2014031595180303.jpg (http://s16.photobucket.com/user/CindyBertinetti/media/2014031595180303.jpg.html)
http://i16.photobucket.com/albums/b50/CindyBertinetti/th_IMG_86427024930971.jpeg (http://s16.photobucket.com/user/CindyBertinetti/media/IMG_86427024930971.jpeg.html)
http://i16.photobucket.com/albums/b50/CindyBertinetti/th_20140420_16372_edit_1398123902983.jpg (http://s16.photobucket.com/user/CindyBertinetti/media/20140420_16372_edit_1398123902983.jpg.html)

Koalifornia21
04-22-2014, 02:53 AM
How about a couple visuals while I'm at the pic thing! First one is me with my husband Rick, my two sons David to my left and Jason with his wife, my lovely daughter in law Laura, the pretty TALL blonde and daughter I always wanted. Then one of me and Jason and the last one we took last week in St Louis with my husband and the foxy blonde ( not me, the cutie on the left LOL ) is my niece Jennifer who performs on dueling pianos at Howl at the Moon she is very talented!! And the last one is my princess Shih Tzu, Muffin. ;)


Cindy, can I just tell you that you look FABULOUS! I hope I can look that good when I'm your age. :)

The purse that you knitted came out really pretty. I knit also, but so far I've been limited to scarves, ponchos, and hats. I haven't been able to master anything more complex really yet. I've checked out a few knitting how-to books but I always have the hardest time understanding the directions! haha. I guess with practice.

Your dog is adorable - it makes me miss my little chow chow at home.

Wannabeskinny
04-22-2014, 08:24 AM
Fabulous family thanks for sharing Cindy! And you've got quite the talent for knitting, I wish I could do something like that.

I had a stressful day yesterday recovering from our party. I was tired and irritable. My food intake was not bad at all, had a very mindful and intuitive breakfast and lunch was hearty. Dinner time I had to take my son to a toddler's birthday party. I had a few crackers with dip and avoided the pizza altogether. I had my slice of cake but it was too sweet for me and it made me feel a little ill. When we came home I was still feeling ill so I had a cup of warm broth and it made me feel a lot better. Then I started feeling irritable and wanting to munch and could feel that something was wrong because I was getting snappy at my husband. He went to bed early and so I was by myself, watching tv and irritable - primed for snacking and binging. I couldn't figure out what was on my mind making me so irritable, I kept trying to think to what could have set me off and driven me to feel a compulsion to eat. So I decided to just sit with the feeling, and took several deep breaths. No bells and whistles went off but I did decide to put myself to bed before I did anything irrational. I'm glad I was able to steer myself away from eating because I know that wouldn't have solved anything, though I still can't figure out what's gotten me anxious other than my oppressive work commitments.

CindySunshine
04-22-2014, 08:28 AM
Wannabe could it just be fatigue? I get like that when I'm bone tired. Going to bed was probably the exact best thing you could do.

Locke
04-22-2014, 05:33 PM
Hello ladies,

I haven't posted in a few days because life has been, well, life. I have been reading this thread daily. I visited my parents over the weekend. No matter how well adjusted I feel in my life my family always succeeds in making me crazy. I dove right back into my vices of self hatred, binging, and drinking.

Now that I'm back home it's taken me a few days to get back into the swing of things. My energy levels have been wonky lately and I definitely feel irritable when I'm tired. I'm cutting back on caffeine to see if that helps. I'm trying to eat a bit more healthy, too, as I think that my diet of bagels, bread, cheese, and ice cream may be contributing to feeling tired.

Navigating the honoring your hunger vs. honoring your health is kind of tricky. I don't want to make the distinction bread = bad and salad = good. I do want to eat more vegetables, lean meats, whole grains, etc. though. This isn't for the sake of losing weight but rather it comes from a place of gentleness and nurturing- I want to give my body the things that it needs to thrive. So I guess it must be a good thing to do because it's coming from a good place.

Koalifornia21
04-22-2014, 09:08 PM
Hello ladies,

Navigating the honoring your hunger vs. honoring your health is kind of tricky. I don't want to make the distinction bread = bad and salad = good. I do want to eat more vegetables, lean meats, whole grains, etc. though. This isn't for the sake of losing weight but rather it comes from a place of gentleness and nurturing- I want to give my body the things that it needs to thrive. So I guess it must be a good thing to do because it's coming from a good place.

Hi Locke,

I am actually in a similar state that you are. I reached the point where having cupcakes for lunch really lost its excitement when I realized how lousy it made me feel afterwards. Not that I still won't have a cupcake, I'll just have some of it and balance it out with other options like with a turkey sandwich and cottage cheese, or whatever food sounds good.

I've found it really helpful to keep eating the foods I enjoy, but just making some easy and healthier modifications. For instance, I've been craving pizza a lot this week. So I've let myself have pizza. But I made my pizza on a whole wheat pita and with skim mozzarella cheese. It tastes just as good to me as any other pizza, but with ingredients that I know are a little more balance for me. The plus is that I don't walk away from the meal feelings sluggish or heavy.

I think the key is to give yourself what you want, but keep your health in mind too. For instance you mentioned bagels, well let yourself have a bagel but maybe choose a whole wheat or multigrain bagel. Just some harmless switches like that. Then you're listening to your cravings AND your health.

If anything I've learned this really is a process, two steps forward and one step back, but overall we're moving in the right direction!

Koalifornia21
04-23-2014, 03:13 AM
Today actually marks a month since I have binged! IE and eating enough food has completely gotten rid of my desire to binge until I feel sick. I still overeat occasionally, but that is not a binge!

Wannabeskinny
04-23-2014, 08:42 AM
Congrats Koali!

Locke, I struggle with that very same issue. Although I have gotten much better about my self-criticism it's a hard habit to break. I haven't completely ridden myself of guilt over the food I eat. Sometimes I wonder why I eat the things I eat, is it because I'm really craving them or is it because they're around? And if they weren't around, what would I crave?

Yesterday was a tough day, I had cake for lunch and dinner.

CindySunshine
04-23-2014, 10:40 AM
Morning ladies. Locke hoping you are back on track and moving in the right direction. And I think it's entirely normal to overeat sometimes, and eat what is there instead of what we are craving at the moment, I just had ham and scrambled eggs and it is totally because the ham is there.

I'm still not really in the groove, but I am making progress on getting my gardens under control at which point I will relax more and I know it will be easier. The weather is stellar the birds are singing, I am heading out in a bit and a few more hours will get me past the spring cleanup, the next dozen items are much easier and more fun.

I have to talk (briefly I promise) about how intuitive an eater my dog is. We have never fed her any table scraps so she doesn't have to worry about what she is craving, but I had her at the vet and she weighed again 14.2 pounds which is an ideal body weight for her. we have had her on a several food searching for an allergy source and she varies her quantity and her exercise level varies. She seems to just hone in to keep herself at that weight. This last food I got is completely grain and starch free and I'd been putting the same cup or a little more in her bowl and she was leaving some and I noted that the instructions say 1/2 to 1 1/4 cups for up to 25 pounds, less than the others and she automatically reduced how much she ate. I need to take lessons from my princess.

CountryLiving
04-23-2014, 11:32 AM
I've been struggling again. I just can't seem to let go of the diet mentality when I know it's only making me fatter. I keep thinking "one last time" which I know I won't last on it. I can't begin to tell you how many times I've started and stopped LC in the past few months only to end up heavier than I've been in years. The scale is almost at the 200# mark and it has me freaking out that I can not go beyond that number which brings up the whole diet issue. My clothes feel awful. I know I just need to quit with it all and I feel like I'm just sabatoging myself. I just need a good knock upside the head to get me straight. Feeling very frustrated.

CindySunshine...interesting about your dog. We have a 1 year old lab. First dog I've ever had and I see that she just eats what she wants of her food and will just leave the rest. Somedays she even skips breakfast. I have 3 kids and they are great at IE which I'm so happy to see because I don't want them to go through the struggles that I have. When I see them leave 1/2 a dessert because they are full I just want to rejoice! I'm trying hard not to corrupt them!

littlegreen
04-23-2014, 12:57 PM
Hi there! I'm fairly new to intuitive eating (have been experimenting with it over the past couple of weeks after reading Josie Spinardi's 'How to Have Your Cake and Your Skinny Jeans Too'). I lost about 12lbs between January and April via calorie counting, but I found myself getting super stressed out and obsessive over the numbers. So now I'm not trying to lose weight, but more trying to maintain while resetting my relationship with food.

One thing I'm trying to do is eat three (or two) substantial meals a day, instead of the constant grazing I did during my dieting phase. I'm having a tough time deciphering my body's hunger signals, though - so I'll stop after a fairly small amount of food, thinking I'm no longer hungry, and then I'll get hungry again within a couple of hours. Any tips for this?

Also, I'm really excited about the awesome, supportive community you have here! (And it's incredibly refreshing to read through your posts after inundating myself with endless info about calories and nutrition over the last few months.)

Locke
04-23-2014, 06:39 PM
Littlegreen,

Welcome! I love our little community. Hunger signals can be perplexing at first but it definitely gets easier. I think the fact that you know that you are hungry a few hours after eating until just satisfied shows that you are indeed attuned to your signals. When I first started IE this would really bother me. What I do now is I eat until I'm satisfied and it is definitely a sure feeling. I used to stress so much about if I was full or not- now I eat until I'm full- which is hard to define but I'll try:

For me fullness feels like I don't *need* to eat anymore, and I don't really want to eat anymore, either. I find myself no longer fixated on food. I may get distracted by something else. It's different for everyone. For me it's also independent of how "full" my stomach feels. If I eat something light like a broth-based soup my stomach may feel stretched a bit but I'm not really satisfied. Sometimes I still feel like I need to eat a few hours after I'm full and that's okay, too.

This is an art, not a science. The most important part for me is forgiveness- forgiving myself for the way I've treated myself over the years and rebuilding a healthy relationship with food.

Wannabeskinny
04-23-2014, 07:09 PM
One thing I'm trying to do is eat three (or two) substantial meals a day, instead of the constant grazing I did during my dieting phase. I'm having a tough time deciphering my body's hunger signals, though - so I'll stop after a fairly small amount of food, thinking I'm no longer hungry, and then I'll get hungry again within a couple of hours. Any tips for this?



Welcome littlegreen! We do have a supportive bunch of Intuitive Eaters here in this thread and we have a small presence around other threads. There are only a small number of naysayers and a few people who don't quite understand why we do what we do but for the most part everyone on 3FC is very inclusive and supportive. Check in here and on the threads labeled IE in the Chicks in Control section.

Stopping after a fairly small amount of food thinking you're not hungry is part of the process. Putting in the time and effort required to get in tune with your body's hunger signals is time well spent, eventhough I know how infuriating it is to be hungry just a short while later. When I first started doing this I was very unhappy about how often I would need to eat. If I were to think of myself as a vessel I would say I was constantly filled 75% of the way and kept topping myself off to 90% - that was an annoying but necessary part of the process. Over the course of a few weeks I went from eating every couple of hours to eating 3 solid meals a day with absolutely no snacks. I'm really comfortable with this!

There is a scale you can use that I've found very useful. I rate my hunger from 1-10. I like to eat when I'm at 2-3 and eat until I'm at an 8.

1. Famished, Irritable
2. Very hungry
3. Hungry
4. Slight hunger
5. Neutral
6. Appetite goes away
7. Satisfied
8. Full
9. Overly full, stuffed
10. Sick, discomfort

There is no wrong amount of hunger, if you're anywhere between a 1-4 you can eat. My guess though is that you may be eating when you are closer to a 4 and then not eating enough. That's what was happening to me in the beginning, I was eating at the first sign of hunger and then not eating enough, only enough to get me to 7. But I wouldn't stay at seven for long. Since I started eating until 8 I feel much calmer and able to stay away from food for long periods of time.

Some people say that this type of rating scale does not work for them, I'm glad I gave it a chance though. There are times that I am feeling irritable AND slightly hungry at the same time. That's a sure sign that something else is going on and I hold off on food until I get to the bottom of what I'm really craving.

littlegreen
04-23-2014, 09:10 PM
Thanks! All this advice sounds awesome, and the 10-point scale looks helpful too. The book I mentioned uses a hunger scale too, but it's just a 5-point one, which I think was unhelpful for me.

Today I ate three square meals - and no snacks yet! - for the first time in AGES. I still might end up having a snack pre-bedtime because I ate an early dinner, but I'm cool with that. I'm also getting out of the habit of mentally estimating calories, which is refreshing.

CindySunshine
04-24-2014, 05:38 AM
Great to see you CountryLiving. I've been having a bad week or so myself it happens, but restricting just never works for me.

Welcome to you littlegreen! I do best with a few bigger meals and no or few snacks. I've been eating sugar and carbs with Easter and feel yucky am out of pattern. In the past, I find I need to flush out the carbs and sugar once of in a while to get back, I used to do fruit flushes and just eat fruit or smoothies a day or two which is NOT a diet with no intent to lose weight, but I get nice and hungry at which point IE works best. I feel fabulous when I eat IE, my energy level is through the roof. It's a huge motivator for me.

Wannabeskinny
04-24-2014, 09:19 AM
This is my week of stress, the biggest stressful work week I've had since autumn. It will all be over by Monday and if I can survive through this week I will be ok. I have a big presentation on Sunday for which I need to be prepared and yet all I can think about is how I look. What will I wear? How will everyone judge me on my appearance? Why do none of my clothes fit? Trying on things to buy is a huge nightmare, nothing fits, why don't they carry an extra large? The other presenters are so beautiful and thin, why must I be dumpy in comparison? Will I be taken seriously even though I look so bad? I'm obsessing about the way I look right now and it's derailing me.

Truthfully I've lost a couple of pounds this week, but at my weight that changes practically nothing in terms of how I look, feel or wear. I'm having weird diet thoughts like "if I eat 1200 calories every day until Sunday I'll lose 25lbs" which of course sounds soooooooo stupid but I can't help it!

CindySunshine
04-24-2014, 09:58 AM
Find something in a beautiful color that sings to you - turquoise, raspberry, lemon yellow, geranium red - make it in your shoes or a scarf or a top or whatever and let it bring a smile to your face and confidence in your step. They will listen to what you say, remember your glow and that beautiful color.

You can do this! You've done so well and on your way, we love you girl!

littlegreen
04-24-2014, 10:55 AM
Good luck, Wannabeskinny! I'm sure you'll rock it!

I was wondering, does anyone else have difficulties with perishable foods? I have a bunch of shelf stable junk food in my house right now which doesn't bother me, but I get so antsy about the prospect of having to throw away sweet things. This morning I kind of binged on a huge brownie and a slice of red velvet cake, both of which were getting to the point that I would have needed to throw them out otherwise. I'm not too worried about the individual overeating, but I think this might be a sign that I shouldn't bring more than a single serving of perishable sweet things into the house.

edit: and less than an hour later, the sugar binge is catching up to me and I feel dreadful - hopefully I can remember this feeling the next time I have the urge to drown myself in brownies!

carolr3639
04-24-2014, 01:06 PM
You can always freeze that kind of thing in indiviual servings.

Locke
04-24-2014, 05:12 PM
@Littlegreen

I find myself constantly worrying about having enough food in the house and making sure that nothing goes to waste. If you think something's going bad do what carol says and freeze it. I have half a cake in the freezer right now, along with a few other items that were on their way out. Also don't be afraid to just toss it. It's only cake- there are tons of cake out there in the world; some even better tasting than what you've got!

Locke
04-24-2014, 05:29 PM
I'm really fighting the dieting urges today. Not for weight loss, for health reasons. I started lurking in old forums- paleo, low fat high carb vegan. Not good. I have the uncanny ability to forget the errors of the past as well as the progress I've made. Anyway I won't be going back to those forums. /Sigh now I just feel all squirrely and dissatisfied.

Pinkhippie
04-24-2014, 06:01 PM
Hi fellow IE's. :)

I was perusing the intuitive eating books on Amazon and I came across "Eat what you love, love what you eat, How to break your eat-repent-repeat cycle." I read the first two sample chapters and it looked right up my alley but Im a little concerned about the recipes and nutrition chapter. Has anyone read this?

I have come really far and Overcoming overeating is my favorite book ever. My copy is dogeared and actually is missing both the front and the back cover. I have had it since the 90's. I read the Trioble book and some of it just didn't click for me. So, Im always looking for another great book to help me.

Koalifornia21
04-24-2014, 08:29 PM
I'm obsessing about the way I look right now and it's derailing me.

I work at the Vice Chancellor's Office of my university and I meet professional women of ALL shapes and sizes! There are women there who make over six figures, are extremely educated, and who do great work even if they don't fit to our silly standard image of ideal "thinness"

Wannabee, I'm sure that you're going to do great at this presentation! Based on how well you express your thoughts and ideas on this thread, I'm certain that you will give a solid presentation at work. =)

Like the others said, find something that makes you feel great besides your weight. For me, I love doing something special with my hair, like curling it, when I know that I'm going to have to be presenting something. I find that if I have my hair done well, my makeup applied flawlessly, I care much less that I'm wearing a size up in jeans.

Good luck, we're supporting you!

Koalifornia21
04-24-2014, 08:59 PM
Hearing all of the positive responses from reading Overcoming Overeating inspired me to finally buy the book

When I dieted I used a TON of resources to keep me on the diet, I'm finding that without dieting I still need resources too -like this awesome board. So I'm hoping I will find this book to be a support source too.

Wannabeskinny
04-25-2014, 08:14 AM
Thank you all for your kind encouragement. So far my track record for surviving tough days is 100% so I'm trying to remember that lol. It's funny though that all my energy is being directed towards "blaming the fat" at this moment of stress. I thought I made so much progress in accepting myself and here I am at square one level of self-confidence. My nutritional therapist did say that at times of high stress we always revert back to what we know best so I'm trying to hang in there and treat myself compassionately rather than berate myself for this weakness.


I was wondering, does anyone else have difficulties with perishable foods? I have a bunch of shelf stable junk food in my house right now which doesn't bother me, but I get so antsy about the prospect of having to throw away sweet things. This morning I kind of binged on a huge brownie and a slice of red velvet cake, both of which were getting to the point that I would have needed to throw them out otherwise. I'm not too worried about the individual overeating, but I think this might be a sign that I shouldn't bring more than a single serving of perishable sweet things into the house.

edit: and less than an hour later, the sugar binge is catching up to me and I feel dreadful - hopefully I can remember this feeling the next time I have the urge to drown myself in brownies!

littlegreen, are you comfortable throwing food out? Some people have a very hard time throwing food away, it's one of those things that parents engrain unfairly into their kids when really all this teaches us is that our stomach is a garbage bin. I strongly urge you to consider throwing food away that has gone bad. Eating it so that you don't have to throw it away is the antithesis of intuitive eating and you're eating for reasons other than hunger. Remember that IE is eating what you want, when you want it and enjoying it. It's not right to eat foods just for the purpose of them not spoiling.

Wannabeskinny
04-25-2014, 11:05 PM
Casual observations - I don't snack. Ever. Haven't had the slightest desire to snack in weeks. My meal times are flexible but fairly regulated now. Amazing.

Locke
04-26-2014, 12:01 AM
@Wannabe,

It's rare that I have to snack nowadays because I know intuitively how much I need to eat so that I'll be hungry for the next meal. Oh my, this is really happening, isn't it? :P

Pinkhippie
04-26-2014, 01:25 AM
Im just jumping in again. :)

I have been practicing eating only when Im hungry for months now. It's crazy how something that "intuitive" can become so difficult. I feel like in the past week or so I have really made a break through. I have let myself get hungry enough times, and then eaten to the point of satisfaction but not full burstingness enough times that now I actually prefer it. I still have like "brain jerk" reactions of thinking about eating a certain food during key times in the day, like in the evening, or if something stressful is happening, or all the kids are yelling at once, but I don't act on it anymore. I check in with myself and realize I am not hungry so therefore I don't WANT to eat because I am finally feeling how much displeasure there is in eating when I am not hungry. This even applies to deserts. Last night I had made myself a "healthy" desert to eat after dinner. I sat down to eat it and realized it didn't even taste good to me because food really doesn't taste the same when I am not hungry. I didn't finish it. I left my desert sitting there and told myself that I would have it when I was hungry. But, that time never came and I went to bed without finishing it. I also no longer crave sugary things or chocolate because I have removed the guilt from them. I think I used to just want to eat them because I told myself they were "bad". I have had a bag of chocolate truffles sitting on top of my fridge for about 2 weeks now. When I first got them I had a couple for a few nights in a row. I had the impulse to eat the whole bag the first night of course and told myself it that is what I needed to do then I could but I quickly realized they were really rich and I didn't WANT more than a couple. So, the other night, I had a "brain jerk" reaction that I would eat more truffles. But I thought about it since there is no guilt associated with them and realized I really wasn't in the mood for chocolate. and so I didn't eat any. And I still haven't eaten any. As soon as I am in the mood for chocolate, I will but that time hasn't come yet.

As for snacking, I find that I need to still eat small amounts of food every few hours. It may be because I am nursing but for a few weeks I let myself get really hungry and then I would have a meal. That was good for getting in touch with what hunger really felt like, but it was uncomfortable and hard to sustain for me. It works much better for me to have a snack between lunch and dinner and sometimes after dinner. Although today I brought a snack with me just in case but I was never hungry enough to eat it.

Anyway, sorry for the novel. I just know that reading everyones thought proceses and experiences with this has helped me so much. I hope my ramblings could maybe help someone too. :)

Locke
04-26-2014, 12:11 PM
Pinkhippie,

That's great! I can only hope for your progress.

I gave up caffeine a week ago and oh my goodness... Most of my mental issues have disappeared. I was drinking a ton of black coffee and diet coke every day to "give myself energy" and to also keep my feelings of hunger at bay. I knew that that wasn't following IE but it was a hard habit to break. Anyway I gave up the coffee and I've been strictly limiting diet coke/tea/caffeine drinks to two or less per day. Of course there was the first few days of being a raging beotch because of the withdrawals but I'm so calm and collected now. My energy levels are stable and I no longer have the tired/weak/depressed/irritable periods during the evenings. I cannot believe how good I feel.

So yeah now I'm off alcohol, coffee, and drugs and SURPRISE I feel good. I'm actually less hungry, too. I can't believe I let myself do this to my body this long. I was miserable! Now I feel like myself again. :)

Wannabeskinny
04-26-2014, 02:02 PM
Locke I worry so much when you refer to your drug use. IE is helping me face and resolve or deal with many issues that I was using to suppress. I hope it does the same for you and the you find some peace from substance abuse. I'm not a drinker and I don't do narcotics but I've battled a cigarette addiction for a long time, I know how a vice can derail someone.

Locke
04-26-2014, 10:31 PM
Locke I worry so much when you refer to your drug use. IE is helping me face and resolve or deal with many issues that I was using to suppress. I hope it does the same for you and the you find some peace from substance abuse. I'm not a drinker and I don't do narcotics but I've battled a cigarette addiction for a long time, I know how a vice can derail someone.

I've come a long way when it comes to drugs and alcohol. I have little slip ups here and there (with booze, not drugs lol) but I'm pretty good. IE has really given me some freedom in regards to that, to be honest. I feel like everything comes back to my relationship with food and nurturing myself.

CindySunshine
04-27-2014, 09:37 AM
Greeting ladies. Wannabe are you finished with your presentation as in tomorrow this Monday? Almost there if that's the case and that whole stressful period you were planning for is OVER. Yes.

Locke glad to hear you are back and moving forward. Interesting on caffeine for you. I drink a few mugs of coffee in the morning and that usually is it unless we go out for dinner or something and even then I used to always have coffee after and now it's the rare exception.

Welcome to you Pink and thanks for sharing your experience over weeks it is helpful. And Littlegreen, I go through that with sweets and it's more of a last chance eating thing for me. And honestly I'm not restricting but I'm not filling the house we sweets or eating desserts very often either. After Easter I had this fabulous carrot cake and I found some Christmas stocking candy. I ate a lot more of that stuff than I wanted to this week and felt very off plan, in the beginnings of my yo-yo regain cycle I vowed I would not let happen. I also ate a bunch of this dried fruit tropical mix that I would absolutely never buy but it came in a Christmas exchange combination. I basically felt absolutely awful.

My husband was out of town last week, but I spent a couple days over with my mother in law who is a dear darling soul. My father in law went out of town with my husband, and she has been in failing health, very frail and needs someone to stay with her at least some of the time. She really needs to eat so I fixed nice appealing meals she loves and ate with her. She eats so well when I cook for her like that and she needs to. So that was interspersed in my week as well.

This morning I tossed the rest of the bag of that stupid tropical mix in the garbage and fixed a big bowl of watermelon and feel better already. I need to get back in touch with myself and my hunger. Remember I mentioned doing the fruit flush a week ago, and I was thinking about a simple vegetable soup. The idea is not to lose weight at all, just to get hungry and rid of the carb and sugar cravings.

So this morning I am not going to do a bunch of work, going to get dressed and get back to a nice long walk. That slipped last week, too. I was working in the garden a lot but my fitbit steps were way down under 10000 in a day. ENOUGH.

We are meeting friends at a local winery this afternoon and I plan to enjoy it.

And my other news is we are the proud parents of a new golden retriever puppy named him Hawkeye. Boy is he adorable and follows us around absolutely right with you for hours, little sweet puppy kisses. Here's a thumbnail pic I took in the yard yesterday, 7 weeks.

http://i16.photobucket.com/albums/b50/CindyBertinetti/th_20140426_100124.jpg (http://s16.photobucket.com/user/CindyBertinetti/media/20140426_100124.jpg.html)

Enough of the Cindy novel! I feel like I have unloaded a burden. ;)

Wannabeskinny
04-28-2014, 11:10 AM
Congrats on that adorable little puppy, what a cutie!

My presentation is over, I did what I had to do and I did well. I'm nervous about the pictures, we had a photo session afterward with other other women and I cringe just thinking about how much more I weigh than the others. There's the tall thin beautiful women and short lumpy me. It just makes me realize that I still have such a long way to go before accepting myself.

Now comes the part where I have to reassess what my eating has been like over the past couple of weeks with the impending stress culminating in yesterday's appearance. I spent a great deal of my energy obsessing about how I look, I find it difficult to stand on a stage and try to convince my peers of my thoughts when all I can think about is how I look and how the publicity shots will be circulating in my field, published in online and printed publications. I don't want who I am to be associated with how I look and yet there it is, and appearance plays a role in my profession, undoubtedly.

In recent weeks I've indulged in some binging behaviors such as eating alone, eating in secret, setting up time to eat by myself etc. The difference is that I can't eat a lot anymore. The physical sensation of eating past fullness is very uncomfortable - that didn't used to be like that. Yesterday for example, I set out to binge at fast food. I went to kfc and picked up a 2piece meal with mashed potatoes and mac n cheese and a 10 piece hot wings - yes that's what I used to eat on a binge and I used to do it on my way home right before our real dinner was served, which I would also eat. Granted, I was hungry, I hadn't eaten since breakfast at 9am and now it was 6pm after my presentation, I was tired, cranky, past starving and reeling with exhaustion.

But eventhough I picked it up I felt like going home. And ate in plain sight of my husband. I ate my 2 pieces of chicken and the mashed potatoes. I tasted the mac n cheese but didn't like it and put it aside. I was so full that I didn't even touch the hot wings or the biscuit. So I had 2 piece of chicken and some mashed potatoes and was completely full. I didn't tally up calories but if I were too I'm willing to bet I was way under for the day. I know this doesn't sound good, but the mere fact that I didn't in secret is very telling of how my behavior has changed. My nutritional therapist told me flat out that we are rewiring my brain and it seems to be working. Even when I try, I can't follow through on binging. I set myself up to binge and didn't do it.

If I can avoid binging, lose 2lbs, and not eat past fullness in times of such dire stress then there is a lot of hope for me. This is the first time I can easily say that 100% not binging at all. It's the truth, but I'm still trying to believe it.

Pinkhippie
04-28-2014, 11:47 AM
Thanks for the welcomes! :)

Cindy your puppy is adorable! I really want a puppy too but its not a good time for us. Our hands are full with our 3 kids (two of which are under 5) and our shih tzu.

Wannabe that is so great! That is huge progress! You were really listening to your body and honoring yourself. I do the same thing sometimes. I go for a long time without eating and feel like I need to eat HUGE amounts of food. I used to just eat those amounts no matter what but now I sit down and eat until I feel satisfied and realize I don't need all that food. It is still such a process.

On Saturday there was some leftover quesadilla that looked good and I ate a piece even though I wasn't really hungry. It felt really terrible and I could feel the difference. It made me marvel that I spent so many years being so out of touch with my own body that I would stuff food into it, even when I wasn't hungry. The signal is so strong now when I am hungry versus not hungry I don't know how I used to not be able to tell.

I can tell that I still have very deeply ingrained habits/ neural pathways in my brain regarding food and when to eat it. I still feel a weird urge to eat when I walk in the door, even if I am not hungry, and after I put the kids to bed. I have to be aware at those times and really check in with myself to tell if I am hungry. And for some reason if I overeat or eat when Im not hungry to the point of feeling stomach discomfort I still want to eat MORE. I am not sure why. I am learning to just wait but its still a challenge.

SouthernMaven
04-28-2014, 04:12 PM
I've been very busy for the last few days, which is why I haven't been posting.

Wannabe, it sounds as if you have made AMAZING progress! I love what your nutritionist is saying - "rewiring your brain." That's really and truly what it is.

I had a good 'body acceptance' moment today. I had to have my photo taken for a permit I have renewed every 5 years, and I knew I wouldn't be pleased. Yet I surprised myself with how accepting I was of it. (It's just a facial shot, like a driver's license or passport photo). Even though it's obvious that I'm heavier than I was before, I was not at all displeased with the photo. I did smile (which I generally don't do in most of these types of ID photos) and I think that's why I liked it better. I just look happy!

Cindy, love the puppy! So adorable!

Locke
04-29-2014, 04:57 PM
Welcome back SM, I was wondering where you had got to. Ladies, oh my word, I'm fighting the dieting demons today. The problem is I get bored at work and start visiting my old dieting websites- paleo, no oil vegan, etc. I start reading and then get the urge to throw out all the "bad" food in the house and start a new diet for weight loss. Lord, and I'm feeling better than I have in years just following IE. I get so scared that I'm going to have a stroke or heart attack because of my weight that I feel compelled to follow these diet plans. They are all alarmist- eat wheat and die, eat meat and die. Ugh. Anyway I need some sanity right now. Otherwise I'm well. :)

Wannabeskinny
04-29-2014, 05:32 PM
Locke you've got to stop visiting these sites, they're causing you nothing but stress! If there's one thing that I've learned it's that eating should not be stressful. I understand what you mean though, it's hard to stay put when you see people running away from grains/carbs/fat as if a volcano is about to explode.

Good to see you SM, photos are terrifying for me too!

Koalifornia21
04-30-2014, 02:00 AM
Wannabee,
I just finished reading the overcoming overeating book you recommended and I found it SO inspiring. Everything it said really resonated with me. To the point that I actually threw out my scale!!:) It's out in the dumpster now.

From now on I'm going to go off my own eyes and how I feel, I'm not going to put myself in the "trying to be thinnest" competition anymore. My eating has started to level off some, and I'm getting a lot better at discerning when I'm hungry and when I'm full.

Spending time with family and friends has also improved now that I don't think about how hungry I am every minute of the day!

Wannabeskinny
04-30-2014, 08:58 AM
Koali - that was fast! You must be a super reader because it took me nearly 2 months to get through that book - I used to read voraciously but siince I had a baby my sense of focus is totally gone. I remember staying up late reading every night. Now I'm dead asleep the moment my head hits the pillow every night lol.

I've noticed that spending time with friends and family has improved as well for me too. I especially notice that I am uncomfortable around dieters or people with the diet mentality. I see people picking up a bite of food, say something judgemental about it and then eat it.

Last week I saw a friend who is on this massive diet right now, has a personal trainer and a nutritionist team and everything, has a diet regimen to follow down to a list of pre-approved snack items. She follows a menu, her food intake is completely out of her hands and eats on a schedule. Anyway we were getting ready for my easter party and I said "I need to go in and have breakfast" and she responded with "yea, maybe your blood sugar is getting too low" which for whatever reason made me very uncomfortable. It made me feel like I was on a diet again, I never speak in those terms anymore.

I'm reading Intuitive Eating now and getting into it. It goes through a list of the type of eaters and I guess I've surmised that I am a chaotic emotional eater, big surprise hehe.

Locke
04-30-2014, 04:54 PM
Koali, that sounds like a great plan. Wannabe, I think I'll reread Overcoming Overeating and Intuitive Eating this weekend. I definitely need a refresher since I've gotten all swept up in good foods vs. bad foods.

Wannabe you wrote something that really stuck with me- eating shouldn't be a stressful experience. I've let that stress creep back into my life in the past few weeks by trying to "eat healthy". It's so hard to strike a balance between what I want to eat and what honors my health. It's happening slowly over time if I don't think about it but if I push myself to eat healthy it all falls apart. So I'm going to start over and eat the things I want to eat rather than those that are healthy and I sort of like them.

Wannabeskinny
04-30-2014, 05:30 PM
... eating shouldn't be a stressful experience.

I know it's easier said than done. But I have a new default panic button. When all is going wrong and I don't know what to do and what to eat I just say to myself "Self, if you need to eat just eat and worry about it later." Surprisingly this takes a lot of the stress away. I've spent too long thinking that eating would kill me. It doesn't. At the end of the day I really am just trying to nourish myself, it's coming from a place of self love even if it's misguided and doesn't really work. Once I get over the panic I can eat whatever I want and try to eat as mindfully as I can.

Locke
04-30-2014, 07:17 PM
The Overfed Head website is not working at the moment. I suspect it might have been taken down. I can't get my hands on the pdf version. Ugh!

Locke
05-01-2014, 01:08 PM
I just want to report that I had a piece of cake and ice cream for dinner last night. It was my first truly intuitive meal for the past few weeks. I ate until I was satisfied and enjoyed it immensely. According to the low carbers and dieters I should have been ravenously hungry a few hours later and binging on donuts, candy, and whatever sugar or processed carbs I could get my hands on. I'm happy to report that I'm still not hungry 16 hours later.

I'm reading "Have your cupcake and your skinny jeans too" right now. It's a great read and I highly recommend it. It's a less frumpy version of Overcoming Overeating. I'm about a quarter of the way through and the thing that I like most about it is it breaks down the different reasons that you overeat emotionally or in response to deprivation and it gives you specific tips for coping with each type.

Wannabeskinny
05-01-2014, 02:13 PM
You're right, overcoming Overeating is a bit frumpy isn't it? Once I get through IE I'll check out te book you mentioned.

Yea, I'm not hungry either and I eat carbs too. I don't think I buy into this carb sensitivity excuse. I thought I did buy it turns out that when I eat what I want when I want it things go smoothly. But then again I've given up on drastic and fast weight loss.

Pinkhippie
05-02-2014, 10:13 PM
I just want to report that I had a piece of cake and ice cream for dinner last night. It was my first truly intuitive meal for the past few weeks. I ate until I was satisfied and enjoyed it immensely. According to the low carbers and dieters I should have been ravenously hungry a few hours later and binging on donuts, candy, and whatever sugar or processed carbs I could get my hands on. I'm happy to report that I'm still not hungry 16 hours later.

I'm reading "Have your cupcake and your skinny jeans too" right now. It's a great read and I highly recommend it. It's a less frumpy version of Overcoming Overeating. I'm about a quarter of the way through and the thing that I like most about it is it breaks down the different reasons that you overeat emotionally or in response to deprivation and it gives you specific tips for coping with each type.

I had a similar experience a few weeks ago. My husband took me out to a bakery for donuts for my birthday. For breakfast. I was totally in the mood for donuts and got a custard filled donut and a plain glazed one with a glass of milk. I ate just until I felt satisfied which was most of my custard filled one and half of the glazed. I drank half the milk and felt good and satisfied. I wasn't hungry and didn't even need to eat again until we had a late lunch. I know that if I told myself that I would be hungry again right away because of all the carbs that I would have been. I did make sure to drink milk for protein to balance the donut but I didn't get insane carb craving hunger. I think your mind is a really important part of your eating experience.

You're right, overcoming Overeating is a bit frumpy isn't it? Once I get through IE I'll check out te book you mentioned.

Yea, I'm not hungry either and I eat carbs too. I don't think I buy into this carb sensitivity excuse. I thought I did buy it turns out that when I eat what I want when I want it things go smoothly. But then again I've given up on drastic and fast weight loss.

I have read Thinside out too. (the cupcake and skinny jeans book) I really liked it but felt disappointed that she didn't address a lot of emotional hunger aspects. That is supposed to come out in her next book which I can't wait for.

Wannabeskinny
05-02-2014, 11:49 PM
I had a similar experience a few weeks ago. My husband took me out to a bakery for donuts for my birthday. For breakfast. I was totally in the mood for donuts and got a custard filled donut and a plain glazed one with a glass of milk. I ate just until I felt satisfied which was most of my custard filled one and half of the glazed. I drank half the milk and felt good and satisfied. I wasn't hungry and didn't even need to eat again until we had a late lunch. I know that if I told myself that I would be hungry again right away because of all the carbs that I would have been. I did make sure to drink milk for protein to balance the donut but I didn't get insane carb craving hunger. I think your mind is a really important part of your eating experience.



I have read Thinside out too. (the cupcake and skinny jeans book) I really liked it but felt disappointed that she didn't address a lot of emotional hunger aspects. That is supposed to come out in her next book which I can't wait for.

Well said "I thinks your mind is an important part of your eating experience". So true!

Wannabeskinny
05-02-2014, 11:54 PM
We need a May IE thread, who wants to start it?