Weight Loss Support - Will I ever be able to lose weight?




Imready85
03-21-2014, 08:35 PM
I have tried to eat right since Tuesday and today I binged like crazy. I love food more than anything and try to lose weight everyday, but it gets the best of me. I cannot give up food. SOmeone please offer any suggestions. Thank you


kaybee1
03-21-2014, 08:42 PM
maybe your approach should be more about portion control rather than cutting out things cold turkey? at least to start, anyway. if you find that depriving yourself makes you end up binging on that item later, then maybe a program like WeightWatchers would work for you. You eat whatever you want but you have a limit of how much you can eat per day - not a diet, but a lifestyle change, as they say.

kaybee1
03-21-2014, 08:42 PM
btw, it can take some time to build up your discipline and get the ball rolling. it's only been a couple days since you started and tomorrow is another day!


Pattience
03-21-2014, 09:50 PM
If we knew what you ate in a typical day for the last three days minus the binge, we might be able to offer you some clarifying info.

In the meantime we are just guessing what might be going on?

a) you are restricting calories too much and getting hungry
b) your mood and therefore seratonin levels are low
c) your foods are not well balanced and therefore not satisfying. YOu want to have a balance of something like 55g carbs, 20 % fats (preferably mostly vegetable fats or fish fats) and 25% protein. You can adjust all these about 5-10% either way.
d)the foods you are eating lack nutrition and are highly processed and have a lot of calories for their weight.
e) you are not busy enough and haven't addressed boredom or other lifestyle factors
f)your sleep patterns are out and contributing to this problem and you are not getting enough daylight.
g) you are under stress or pressure.
h) you are going too long without food and getting hungry between meals.

Start keeping a food diary somewhere. show us what you are doing and we can help you tweak it.
do it here for a little while if you want.

diamondgeog
03-21-2014, 11:44 PM
I'm going to chime in because the weight watchers portion control approach never worked for me. Ironically I did have to go cold turkey. I had an insulin production problem. Too much bread, pasta, potatoes, made me hungry all the time. I was a slave to my hunger.

It was hard to transition away. But once I got my body chemistry under control my hunger went away. I guess you need to expirement. I never thought I could give up the stuff I did. But I could because the act of cutting them out literally changed my insulin levels to where I didn't crave them anymore.

Patience's approach above would never work for me. I think she meant 55% carbs. If you are insulin resistant to any extent that will keep insulin virtually always present. Your body will prefer carbs to use as fuel since it knows they will always be there and will store calories as fat and it will be hard to burn stored fat.

When you drop your carbs, your body has no choice but to burn its stored fat. It is called becoming fat adapted. Yes it's real and yes it does work for many.

But many people do great on portion control. Different ways to peel an onion.

Pattience
03-22-2014, 12:26 AM
Diamond did you have much protein in your diet? What propotion of your total calorie intake was protein? Do you have any idea?

But you can reduce your carbs to 45 percent and increase your protein if you think you need to. It will make it easier.

I think Diamond you got to the point you got to because your carbs were just too much. I mean far more than your body could handle and for too long.

If you've been diagnosed as insulin resistant or diabetic it is safest to start working with a dietician. And also if you repeatedly have problems.

I certainly know that if i try to start a diet at certain times, i just can't do it. I think its because my seratonin is too low. And i think getting into the right frame of mind for a diet is very important. If you are going to crack within a few days of starting, you are just doing something wrong and that could be something as mysterious as your seratonin levels. You don't really feel depressed when your seratonin levels are low but you do want to eat carbs all the time. But that backfires.

I just think quitting the sugar should be enough, particularly if your mood is ok. Quitting sugar doesn't mean you should feel free to eat 10 slices of bread a day. I'd think anything more than 4 is trouble.

All that said, i can't really do portion control per se either. I need to get my appetite for bad foods in check. And the above is how i do it. I am not insulin resistant either. But if i were, i'd be talking to my doctor and a dietician for advice and i'd be trying to follow it.

Wannabeskinny
03-22-2014, 07:51 AM
I have tried to eat right since Tuesday and today I binged like crazy. I love food more than anything and try to lose weight everyday, but it gets the best of me. I cannot give up food. SOmeone please offer any suggestions. Thank you

Hello and welcome. I know it's difficult to feel so frustrated but can you tell us more about what you are eating, what you miss eating when you're dieting and what kind of activity level you are comfortable with?

It's terrifying when someone tells you you have to stop eating, I know. We build our lives comforting ourselves with food and then someone comes along and tells you to stop eating sugar, stop eating fat, stop eating processed food, stop eating grains, stop eating potatoes.... all the things that you want to continue eating. Some people do well for a long time eliminating these foods from their diets, but you don't really have to. You can learn some skills about how to eat, how to make a few changes that will benefit you and still feel like yourself.

Pattience
03-22-2014, 08:02 AM
wannabe, like everything else, its great in theory. I"ve tried eating well and eating what i want and not obsessing but it didn't work for me.

I was off the wagon within a short frame of time. I've always known how to eat healthy. I've always been more of a non-processed healthy no nonsense type of eater, except for the comfort eating thing and it turned into a sugar addiction and its just got worse over the years.

Trying to eat sugar in moderation is really really hard for some people.

I don't know if its the case with the OP but the only way i can eat sugar is if someone else moderates it for me. That's why i've quit sugar.

People don't tell others they have to quit sugar or anything. People just make suggestions and one can only then decide for themselves.

I would love to be able to eat sweets in moderation the IE way but my body is stronger than my mind.

Wannabeskinny
03-22-2014, 08:32 AM
...my body is stronger than my mind.

That's my whole process.

Personally I'm sick and tired of the terrorizing that goes on concerning food. It's hard for me to understand why someone in their right mind would want to get rid of hunger, when it's such a necessary and base instinct. I mean it's practically paleo lol. But now it's this bad thing we have to banish, get rid of it. If we can get rid of hunger we'd stop eating! As a person who's tried dieting for decades I can tell you that none of these methods have resulted in lasting results. They're terrifying, and they're terrorizing to be honest. I'm sorry my posts upset you but I can't help it. I'm tired of villainizing food, therefore villainzing people who eat food. I'm over it.

diamondgeog
03-22-2014, 08:36 AM
Pattience,

For sure I was eating too many carbs. My body was classic 'carb belly' and I don't drink alcohol. AND I wasn't drinking any diet or regular soda, just water and tea. No fruit juices.

I don't calorie count or carb or protein count. Eating whole foods and cutting out grains, and upping saturated fat things are just easy and natural now. And I am strong and endurance is great.

I found an approach my body and mind loves, no hunger, no discipline needed. Just a WOE my body thrives on.

I've posted numerous times on the science behind low carb high fat. Everyone needs to research for themselves. My personal expirement of 1 was this. When I accepted the 'new' science as real and the last 50 years of advice as wrong, everything worked beyond my wildest expectations. Would that be the case for someone else? Don't know. It is working for my wife though just as well. So maybe raise the personal number to 2.

carter
03-22-2014, 08:38 AM
I have tried to eat right since Tuesday and today I binged like crazy. I love food more than anything and try to lose weight everyday, but it gets the best of me. I cannot give up food. SOmeone please offer any suggestions. Thank you

I also love food, LOVE IT. But I did manage to work with my love of food and lose 120 pounds, and keep most of it off (I admit I am struggling with a partial regain now).

You do not have to give up food and you do not even have to give up enjoying what you eat. You will have to experiment a bit, though, to find an approach that works for you, an approach that you can stick to readily.

I don't know what you weigh or what you mean when you say "eat right". But it is possible that you are trying to do too much at one time, too much restriction, or telling yourself that you can never eat such-and-such again. Try making one good choice at a time. Stick to your plan right now, at your next eating opportunity, without thinking about tomorrow or the next day or the next day.

If you don't have a plan, if you don't understand what I mean by plan, let us know, and we can help you develop one.

diamondgeog
03-22-2014, 09:02 AM
I'll just do this post here and the bugger off. And like all of you just reporting my reality and what worked for me.

I like to think of wild animals as eating what they were intended to. Sure they get lots of exercise and food is scarcer so lots of variables. But wolves and big cats aren't eating grains. But we feed our pets grains and a lot have health problems.

I think non-veggie carb and sugar consumption does a lot of damage to the body even if you are not overweight. Causes inflammation that is a root cause of a lot of serious stuff. Add to that that they kept me hungry and in fat storage mode and I think everyone can see why I choose to limit them and why it worked.

yoyoma
03-22-2014, 09:25 AM
I like to think of wild animals as eating what they were intended to. Sure they get lots of exercise and food is scarcer so lots of variables. But wolves and big cats aren't eating grains. But we feed our pets grains and a lot have health problems.

DG, thank you for sharing your personal experience, but the diet of wild predators doesn't really have any implications for human diets.

That said, I also experience the most success with more satisfying foods when I carefully limit my starchy foods (and btw, despite what some people think, the problem with my starchy carbs is not the "goo" that I might hypothetically put on them, which I don't). I do listen to the experiences that other people share and I factor their experiences in when I think about my own WOE. This has led me to trying a lot of new things, and some of them have been very helpful. That is the main reason I tried limiting my starchy carbs in the first place.

To the OP: Don't give up hope! Many of us have "failed" many times; many of us have episodes of binging. But we don't truly fail unless we stop trying to find the approach that works for us.

Different people find success with different approaches. If one approach doesn't work well for you, try another. There's lots of experienced people on this site with calorie counting, Intermittent Fasting, Low Carb, Paleo, commercial programs (like Ideal Protein, Metabolic Research Center, Weight Watchers), and a variety of others. It may also be a personal combination of approaches, which is what I am using.

Good luck in finding an approach that works for you!

diamondgeog
03-22-2014, 09:46 AM
Thanks YoYo,

I really will bugger off but wanted to say I was making an analogy. I don't think overweight is a problem for many wild animals or humans prior to the agricultural revolution. Why? For both eating what they evolved to eat.

Also like your combo approach. I myself am not Paleo. I also realize I am NOT eating like 20,000 years ago: no organ meats, etc. It is a template for me. I have a lot of dairy and my body thrives on it. BTW if you can find Kalona products in your town they are a MUST try. Not only is their butter fantastic but their sour cream and cottage cheese is like nothing you have ever tried. Transcendently good.

mars735
03-22-2014, 10:05 AM
yoyoma, your posts are often spot on for me. Thanks!

LiannaKole
03-22-2014, 11:39 AM
I agree with the idea that maybe you should try portion contol - eat the food you love, just eat less of it. That works great for some people. For others, even a little bit of some foods will lead them to overeat. It takes some trial and (a lot) of error to figure out what works for you.

One thing I try not to do is eat something only because it's healthy. I try to prepare and eat foods that I enjoy and that satisfy me. It helps that I love veggies and whole grains a LOT. For me, whole grains don't make me hungrier or anything - they satisfy. When I tried cutting out non-veggie grains I got so HUNGRY. It just depends on the person.

Also, you shouldn't only eat in ways you don't like. That's not sustainable and it'll break down. That's not what you want. You should find something you enjoy frequently and that you can tolerate when the going gets rough. Easier said than done, I know.

JohnP
03-22-2014, 11:56 AM
I don't think overweight is a problem for many wild animals or humans prior to the agricultural revolution. Why? For both eating what they evolved to eat

This is wrong is so many ways my head is spinning.

Olivia7906
03-22-2014, 12:24 PM
I agree with the idea that maybe you should try portion contol - eat the food you love, just eat less of it. That works great for some people. For others, even a little bit of some foods will lead them to overeat. It takes some trial and (a lot) of error to figure out what works for you.

In my own personal experience, this has been what's worked for me to an extent. I am learning the beauty and importance in balance. Not just food, but all facets of life. Not visiting either extremes, but existing beautifully and peacefully in the middle. So with my food, I don't really restrict a particular food group / macronutrient (carbs, fat, protein). I balance them with each meal and I eat to the point of satisfaction....not fullness. One thing though that I HAVE given up and do not eat at all is junk food (chips, soda, processed cookies, cakes, etc). I gave it up because I believe I had a real addiction to it. Since giving it up, I have not craved it since and I enjoy the beauty in nutritious, well balanced food.

HulaChic
03-22-2014, 02:37 PM
Hey Imready85---

I sent you a private message. :-)

Pauline

Samantha18
03-22-2014, 06:08 PM
You started your plan this week and had a lot of good days, don't let that one binge throw you off track for weeks or years until you start again. Losing weight is about having more good days than bad, not being perfect. You are way ahead of where you started! Slip ups will happen, probably more often than you want, but getting back on track immediately will determine the outcome. Forgive yourself (if I slip up, I say, "well that was fun and now I won't be craving that for a while, time to get back on track"). One off day or meal isn't going to do damage like weeks off plan will do!

Also, there is is nothing wrong with loving food! You should work with your love of food instead of against it. You definitely don't have to give up food at all. I love food a lot more now than I ever did at my highest weight, and ironically I spend a lot more time in the kitchen. By taking time to prepare healthy meals, like an omelet for breakfast, I'm a lot more satisfied for longer vs. grabbing a pop-tart from the cabinet. I don't think it's 100% even about how eggs have protein and are the healthier choice, but about how taking the time to prepare it, season it, throw some fruit on the side, etc... makes it more satisfying all around.

Make sure your plan is a plan you enjoy. There is a good chance you can find a recipe for any food you love that will fit into your new way of eating whether it's gluten free, sugar free, low-carb, or portion controlled lower calorie options. And if you are limited on time, there are quick healthy meals to throw together like crockpot meals. It will take a lot trial and error to find the plan you like doing, and even as you lose, you'll probably still want to change things up. Forcing yourself to do a plan that makes you feel deprived, tired, like you're giving up food, etc... isn't a good idea if you want it to stick forever.

Pattience
03-22-2014, 06:19 PM
That's my whole process.

Personally I'm sick and tired of the terrorizing that goes on concerning food. It's hard for me to understand why someone in their right mind would want to get rid of hunger, when it's such a necessary and base instinct. I mean it's practically paleo lol. But now it's this bad thing we have to banish, get rid of it. If we can get rid of hunger we'd stop eating! As a person who's tried dieting for decades I can tell you that none of these methods have resulted in lasting results. They're terrifying, and they're terrorizing to be honest. I'm sorry my posts upset you but I can't help it. I'm tired of villainizing food, therefore villainzing people who eat food. I'm over it.

Your posts don't upset me. I think its fine that there are different things that work for different people. I think its that my posts upset you.

Ok hunger: A little bit of hunger is fine. A lot of hunger will bring you undone. There are physiological reasons for it. And i'm not even talking about the type of hunger that people in real famine experience. Hunger is a sign. Its a sing that you should eat.

Genuine hunger (not boredom hunger) is telling you that your blood supply of energy has run out and your are now resorting to the tissues for energy. That is good. But push that too long and your body will use up the supply of glycogen in your muscles. The feeling of this is intense hunger. When you get to that stage, you will crash. Crashing in dieters feels like a ravenous appetite, no energy, and just all round not good. It makes us run for sugars.

When people are eating low low calories. They are much closer to the crash zone than ordinary people who are not on a diet. Long distance athletes have this issue and triathletes call it the boink. They try to avoid it at all costs because their race is over if they get to that stage. and its quite a dangerous stage for athletes. But because their muscles are so big they carry a lot more energy in their muscles and those of us on a diet. Those of us on a diet who do not have large muscles do not store a lot of energy in our muscles and the body doesn't rush to break down fat at that stage. It goes for muscle tissue itself. The stage at which the body burns fat is when its drawing on the energy in our muscles tissues. that's before the boink. That's when we might experience a little bit of hunger. If your hunger is intense as it can be at the end of the day if you've been to work, then you may be at the end of your muscle tissue energy stores.

When you crash, you feel a bit crazy, you need food fast and people tend to rush for the chocolate bar and things of that kind because that's the quickest way to recover.

So what i advocate is avoiding getting to that point. This is why i suggest only lowering calories to a modest point and keeping meals close together during the day when you are more active. Then in the evening when we are not active, we are not likely to run out of our bodies energy stores.

Its because of this process that people who go to the gym and do other sorts of intense exercise whilst on a diet are advised to eat some protein and carbs at the end of it.

But for people who are overeating a lot, especially of refined carbs, i.e. binging, (because they are more concentrated than say vegetables and other whole foods), will experience insulin spikes and this triggers a binge. So they don't even get to the boink before experiencing a similar sensation. And this is a vicious cycle. To get over it you need either portion control which takes more effort, or just eliminate the refined carbs and then its easier to eat a balanced meal and get things back into some balance.


Its great that IE works for you and whoever else it works for. I am just saying it didn't work for me.

mars735
03-22-2014, 06:36 PM
Thanks YoYo,

I really will bugger off but wanted to say I was making an analogy. I don't think overweight is a problem for many wild animals or humans prior to the agricultural revolution. Why? For both eating what they evolved to eat.



Huh????

Wannabeskinny
03-22-2014, 07:03 PM
No Pattience your posts don't upset me at all. It's posts that demonized whole food groups that are so upsetting because they are terrifying and unecessary. telling everyone that carbs kill people, that carbs are as bad as cigarettes... well frankly it's very upsetting and as someone who can identify with someone like the OP who is feeling helpless it's the last thing I wanted to hear because it promises a lot and delivers it to very few that it works for. There are options for everyone. I'm not pushing IE on anyone, only that I think hunger can be a lifeline but we re too busy trying to cover it up.

diamondgeog
03-22-2014, 07:15 PM
The bugger off was to me to not over post here. The low carb Paleo Primal arguments go well for the last two, humans did not evolve to eat grains. So they and I don't eat grains.

And all three find refined carbs and sugar to be the most common reason for being overweight and sick. So even small or controlled amounts of stuff that makes you sick are not the way to go. Why make your body work so hard to detox? Give it good, whole food, and watch it and you thrive.

Pattience
03-22-2014, 09:54 PM
Oh well i'm glad it wasn't to me then. But Geo, its not true that our bodies are made to avoid grains. Scientists have evidence that early man ate grains. We wouldn't have become grain eaters if we could not obtain nutrients from them.

Secondly paleo man did not live very long either remember, so we don't have evidence that they would have lived long healthy lives and did not suffer diseases like cancer and heart disease, if they overate according to the paleo diet. Paleo man did not over eat because there was a never much of a food surplus. Paleo man was very slim. Of course we know that paleo man didn't die because of his paleo diet. They died in childbirth, of parasites from some meat, and infections mostly, as well as untreated congenital defects and diseases. Of course some would have died from starvation too when food was scarce. And some would have died form injuries on hunts and fights.

Lets take dogs as an example. We think of dogs as meat eaters. Dogs prefer meat but they also can survive on other types of food and in fact most processed dog food is not pure meat. In india, most stray dogs don't get any meat to eat - and there are a lot of stray dogs in the cities. They survive on the food that public gives them which is everything humans eat which over there is not often meat in many parts.

But here in the west are many overweight dogs because dogs will eat everything that anyone will give them. Their appetite never seems to be satisfied (Just like a lot of us). And some owners feed their dogs too much food. That's why there are fat dogs.

Our bodies seem to have evolved to survive low calorie diets and that's why we don't do well when we overeat. Humans are not actually well adapted to the world we live in. We are not well adapted to wealth where we can live sedentary lives and eat a lot. But these sedentary and wealthy lives are a recent addition to life on the planet. Our bodies cannot compensate effectively. So we get overweight. We are trying to deal with it by using intelligence to learn more about these things so we can take effective measures. INtelligence on its own is not enough either. Unfortunately, we have not come up with a magic pill. All weight loss efforts require a degree of effort.

I do find what i'm doing quite easy but that's not to say there is no effort involved.

When you get your weight down to the healthy weight range, i think you will find you will have to apply effort as well. It may be quite easy now for you but it won't always be this way.

Maintain its not grains that are the problem. For people who suffer from the insulin spikes, just quitting refined sugar alone will stop that problem and make the weight loss easier. The binge tendency will still be there but not as a regular part of the day. For someone on a well balanced diet who is not triggered by sweets, It will mainly only be with emotional upsets that one would be at risk of a binge. And that's because of how our brain chemistry works in response to these sorts of stimuli. i.e. it causes seratonin falls. FAlls in seratonin, according to the article i keep referring to, causes us to go for carbs.

This is why i keep saying manage your moods.

But look we all think its fine if you want to do what you are doing for yourself. And you are happy with it. We just don't think your arguments are convincing. We don't think your approach offers the best solution.


And we haven't even got onto the environmental aspects of the issue. This planet could not sustain the current population if we all avoided grains. As it is, many of us think we are heading to a major crisis.

http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/crux/2013/06/03/even-our-ancestors-never-really-ate-the-paleo-diet/#.Uy4_-Vx-_Hj

Locke
03-22-2014, 10:46 PM
Low carb made me sick- I had to go to urgent care for female bleeding issues. It's not for everybody. I've said this before and I'll say it again- nobody has gotten fat by eating boiled wheat berries. The problem with low carbers is that they treat all carbs alike- a potato is the equivalent of a candy bar. It's a reductive way to think about human nutrition and it's actually symbolic of what has gone wrong in the fields of nutrition research. You can't just talk about vitamin A vs. polysaccharides vs. lycopene instead of liver, potatoes, and tomatoes. I agree that eating whole foods is the best thing you can do for your body- but eating bacon, butter, and cheese as dietary staples isn't healthful and that's what a lot of low carbers do.

yoyoma
03-23-2014, 08:21 AM
Lets take dogs as an example. We think of dogs as meat eaters. Dogs prefer meat but they also can survive on other types of food and in fact most processed dog food is not pure meat. In india, most stray dogs don't get any meat to eat - and there are a lot of stray dogs in the cities. They survive on the food that public gives them which is everything humans eat which over there is not often meat in many parts.


Actually, part of dogs' adaptation to domestication is a genetic mutation that allows them to digest carbs. Prescription dog food for pancreatitis (low fat) is mostly carbohydrate.

https://www.sciencenews.org/article/starchy-diet-may-have-transformed-wolves-dogs

Humans seem pretty capable of digesting carbohydrates. It's the fuel that we burn preferentially.

But that doesn't mean that grains are the ideal health food for today's lifestyle and long lifespan. Grains can add a lot of omega-6 fats and can throw off the healthy balance of omega-6 to omega-3 in humans. Grain-fed beef (and dairy products), chicken, and farmed fish can also contribute to an imbalance.

Aside from the the omega balance, is the issue of whether starchy carbs (including grains) can trigger hunger. For now, I am going to disregard the rationale (evolution-based arguments) and physiological science (insulin/leptin), which I think is not yet cast in stone...

In my own case, I do try to include a small serving (a few heaping tablespoons) of nutrition-dense grains (e.g. black rice) in some of my meals but I know that if I include too much I will trigger my hunger rather than satisfy it.


Maintain its not grains that are the problem. For people who suffer from the insulin spikes, just quitting refined sugar alone will stop that problem and make the weight loss easier.


Please stop denying that my personal experience exists. My problem is not with sweets. (Sweets might also be a problem for me, but they have not been a significant part of my life for a very long time, with the exception of my 2 squares of dark chili choc at the end of a meal, which are not a problem for me).

Pattience
03-23-2014, 08:52 AM
Yoyoma, i will leave the first part of your post til later when i've had more time to digest it.

The second part of the post.
I don't know anything about you so i don't know how i can respond to that. And it probably wouldn't be seen as acceptable to ask enough questions to get to the bottom of your story. So another reason i can't respond.

If people are going to defend the avoidance of grains, then they should put forward a convincing argument. "i can't eat grains because they make me fat" is not any kind of argument. Its just an assertion that does nothing to change my mind. But if someone somewhere has made a very good case against then, then maybe you could share that. Because blimey, i've never seen one.

The weight of scientific opinion is against the paleo diet. So what's next?

Pattience
03-23-2014, 08:58 AM
[I will probably modify this post as i learn more this evening]

From wikipeida sources of omega 6 fatty acids.

Dietary sources[edit]
The evening primrose flower (O. biennis) produces an oil containing a high content of γ-linolenic acid, a type of omega−6 fatty acid.
Four major food oils (palm, soybeans, rapeseed, and sunflower) provide more than 100 million metric tons annually, providing more than 32 million metric tons of omega-6 linoleic acid and 4 million metric tons of omega-3 alpha-linolenic acid.[24]
Dietary sources of omega−6 fatty acids include:[25]
poultry
eggs
avocado
nuts
cereals
durum wheat
whole-grain breads[citation needed]
most vegetable oils
evening primrose oil
borage oil
blackcurrant seed oil
flax/linseed oil
rapeseed or canola oil
hemp oil
soybean oil
cottonseed oil
sunflower seed oil
corn oil
safflower oil
pumpkin seeds
acai berry[citation needed]
cashews
pecans
pine nuts
walnuts[26]
spirulina[citation needed]
coconut[27]

That should just about take care of the omega 6 argument. I mean if you give up grains for that reason, shouldn't you also give up eggs, poultry, nuts, avocados, all those oils? I eat a few of these things, including a lot of spaghetti, and i still eat it on my diet, though less in the last week or two because i replaced a fair bit of it with beans to get more protein.

I also just read up again on the sources of omega 3. On the Heart Foundation website i see its not that hard to increase your intake for omega 3. They suggest soy and linseed wholegrain bread, walnuts and and another nut, a few vegetables, canola oil margarine etc. And that's not even to mention fish and beef. So basically if you are watching, it the omega 6 argument has no legs as a reason for not eating grains.

Well if it does trigger your hunger, I won't deny that's possible. But how much are we talking about and what do you do? Do you keeping eating plain rice? does anyone eat a loaf of plain bread? Yes i can eat a whole packet of raisin bread (which is full of sugar) but not wholegrain bread, not even a loaf of sliced white bread, not bowl after bowl of white rice, or plain adulterated spaghetti. But give me ice-cream, no need to add syrup, i can eat 2litres of it. I can stuff myself silly on peanuts, almonds, cheese but i'm not suggesting one has to quit eating these foods. I tried it before. It wasn't a good idea. Food became too uninteresting and too difficult to make tasty. Not impossible but a lot more work.

I recommend quitting sweets because they have no nutritional value. Grains do offer nutritional value. They are useful foods. But if you don't wish to eat them, you don't have to. And i have found they can be eaten in moderation. I'm sorry you haven't been able to do that.

novangel
03-23-2014, 09:46 AM
The bugger off was to me to not over post here. The low carb Paleo Primal arguments go well for the last two, humans did not evolve to eat grains. So they and I don't eat grains.

Humans have been eating grains for over 100,000 years. :shrug:

Wannabeskinny
03-23-2014, 09:49 AM
Throwing out entire groups of food is for people who think that food is a problem. Sugar is evil, carbs are made for a different species (aliens maybe?), fats are for fatties, and finally eating becomes some kind of chemistry experiment. You can't concoct a new diet, that's like concocting a new kind of chemical. In real life I've met lots of paleo eaters, lots of carb haters but you know what? I've never seen anyone die a paleo eater or a carb hater. I've seen people swear things off for life, but never seen anyone follow through with it long term. I've seen people struggle with food until the day they die, I've seen people miserable trying to find the right way to eat.

Here's the thing, going grain free and low carb is for people who don't have problems with food behaviors. They don't have eating disorders. They feel perfectly capable of controlling themselves around food and don't feel emotionally deprived when restricting themselves in that way. Fine, someone must like that though I have never in real life met anyone like that, EVER! Only on the internet have I come across people like that so in my mind they're about as real as a video game. They're known as DIETERS. I've learned that dieters are pretty miserable people, because they keep talking about food and especially bad food. There's no other reason that someone keeps talking about bad food unless they're miserable, no reason whatsoever. Normal people don't go around talking about bad foods, they just don't, look around at the normal people in your life. Tell them about your grain theory and watch how their face goes blank as they reach for their tuna sandwich and plug you into the "cray cray" category.

Sure we can tweak our diets to be more nutritious. Sure we feel awful if we eat a whole box of donuts. Nobody is going to argue that. But going around telling everyone that donuts are going to kill you is scaremongering at best lol. They're sweet little yum yums and if someone crazy person inside your head is telling you that they're evil then you're no better than the ancient greeks that believed that that Zeus was pelting thunder down on their heads.

Overcoming an eating disorder and losing weight are two entirely different things. I suppose someone can get up to 300lbs without having an eating disorder but I don't know for sure, is that really possible?

yoyoma
03-23-2014, 10:01 AM
[I will probably modify this post as i learn more this evening]

From wikipeida sources of omega 6 fatty acids.



That should just about take care of the omega 6 argument. I mean if you give up grains for that reason, shouldn't you also give up eggs, poultry, nuts, avocados, all those oils? I eat a few of these things, including a lot of spaghetti, and i still eat it on my diet, though less in the last week or two because i replaced a fair bit of it with beans to get more protein.



1) I have not given up grains. But I limit them AND OTHER STARCHY CARBS (like potatoes and legumes) to avoid triggering my hunger.

2) omega-6 is an essential fatty acid (which means your body cannot create it). You need to eat it. I do not avoid eating omega-6 EFAs. Most sources of EFAs contain some amount of both 3 and 6.

However, the typical modern diet contains an imbalance of omega-6 and omega-3, with too much 6 relative to the mount of omega-3. Grain is heavy in omega-6; most green plant sources are heavier in omega-3. Grain-fed farm-raised animals also tend to be disproportionate in omega-6. Wild-caught or grass-fed meats (foraging on plants or plant-eating game) have a more favorable proportion of omega-3.


Well if it does trigger your hunger, I won't deny that's possible. But how much are we talking about and what do you do? Do you keeping eating plain rice? does anyone eat a loaf of plain bread?


I do not eat plain rice. I mix my small serving of whole grain rice in with my veg and protein food. If I add too much, I become hungry too soon. I also made a mistake recently, adding the small serving of rice to a dish that contained beans and ended up hungry.

I don't remember the last time I bought white bread. The only bread product I buy is whole wheat bagels for my daughter. When I am "maintaining" and get sloppy enough to eat a half WW bagel dry, I get into trouble. I also know that I am prone to binge on red lentils. It's not just grains for me, but starchy carbs in general.

mars735
03-23-2014, 10:03 AM
I'm a very happy dieter, and very real, trust me. I ate low carb and continue to do so because I feel healthier. And I am thrilled to be in a body that can exercise and move with ease. Shopping for clothes is now easy. Eating to maintain those experiences requires effort since entrenched habits die hard. Labels like "eating disorder" are useful for insurance billing but too arbitrary to realistically characterize the collective experience of any group.

Imready85
03-24-2014, 12:45 PM
If we knew what you ate in a typical day for the last three days minus the binge, we might be able to offer you some clarifying info.

In the meantime we are just guessing what might be going on?

a) you are restricting calories too much and getting hungry
b) your mood and therefore seratonin levels are low
c) your foods are not well balanced and therefore not satisfying. YOu want to have a balance of something like 55g carbs, 20 % fats (preferably mostly vegetable fats or fish fats) and 25% protein. You can adjust all these about 5-10% either way.
d)the foods you are eating lack nutrition and are highly processed and have a lot of calories for their weight.
e) you are not busy enough and haven't addressed boredom or other lifestyle factors
f)your sleep patterns are out and contributing to this problem and you are not getting enough daylight.
g) you are under stress or pressure.
h) you are going too long without food and getting hungry between meals.

Start keeping a food diary somewhere. show us what you are doing and we can help you tweak it.
do it here for a little while if you want.

Hi everyone thank you so much for your posts and advice. I just checked this since I posted it, and just ready everything. I went on a binge this whole weekend. I ate everything in sight. Now I weighed myself and I am 285. The most I have ever weighed in my whole life. Last year I weighed 260 and managed to get down to 235. I thought this would be a good post to respond to to give y'all an idea of what I go through and how I eat. Here is an example of what I ate they day before I had a binge:

Breakfast:
Natural Protein Powder Shake w/organic milk-100 calories

Snack:
Fiber One Bar-90 calories

Lunch:
Roasted Chicken- 2 Pieces of Barbecued Chicken-270 calories
Steamed Veggies
Small Portion of Mac N Cheese-150 calories
Wheat toast-110 calories

Afternoon Snack-
Fruit blueberries, strawberries, cantelope

Dinner-
I went jog before dinner and when I got back I had another Protein Shake and a few gummy bears


Just to give y'all an idea. Im puzzled because I do not know examples of a balanced diet or how to execute one. I live in New Orleans and their is great food everywhere at every event you go to. But this is no excuse because I binge on everything even fast food. I was so miserable last night. I could not sleep. I could not breathe. I feel like I still cannot. I am constantly under pressure at work. Eating is my release. It is my number one hobby. My wife, my life and my greatest love. ALl I ever had was food. Wow this is sad to say.

Locke
03-24-2014, 01:10 PM
I was so miserable last night. I could not sleep. I could not breathe. I feel like I still cannot. I am constantly under pressure at work. Eating is my release. It is my number one hobby. My wife, my life and my greatest love. ALl I ever had was food. Wow this is sad to say.

You probably didn't eat much more than a thousand calories yesterday. I would be miserable and binging if I ate that little, too. To lose weight you've gotta get a long term mindset on. You can't just punish yourself by restricting calories. You're going to hate yourself and be miserable.

Food is a delicious and pleasurable experience. It's meant to be that way. It shouldn't consume your life, though. I used to binge all the time, too. When it comes down to it it's not that pleasurable of an experience. I was wolfing food down so fast I could barely taste it. How is that enjoying food?

When you've got a lot of weight to lose and your beliefs about food are all messed up you have to take baby steps. Don't suddenly cut your calories down so low that even a 120 pound woman would be hungry! Be kind to yourself. Instead of counting calories at first why don't you just eat your normal foods and try to stop eating when you are just full?

Long term sustainable weightloss is about changing habits and "tweaking". It's not about gigantic changes that will leave you hungry and miserable.

miniapplecocoa
03-24-2014, 02:41 PM
I have tried to eat right since Tuesday and today I binged like crazy. I love food more than anything and try to lose weight everyday, but it gets the best of me. I cannot give up food. SOmeone please offer any suggestions. Thank you

Yes, Yes I know I'm late but my answer to OP question is YES! YES! JUST KEEP TRYING! No matter how many times you fall just keep getting back up. PERIOD!

Munchy
03-24-2014, 02:59 PM
You probably didn't eat much more than a thousand calories yesterday. I would be miserable and binging if I ate that little, too. To lose weight you've gotta get a long term mindset on. You can't just punish yourself by restricting calories. You're going to hate yourself and be miserable.

Food is a delicious and pleasurable experience. It's meant to be that way. It shouldn't consume your life, though. I used to binge all the time, too. When it comes down to it it's not that pleasurable of an experience. I was wolfing food down so fast I could barely taste it. How is that enjoying food?

When you've got a lot of weight to lose and your beliefs about food are all messed up you have to take baby steps. Don't suddenly cut your calories down so low that even a 120 pound woman would be hungry! Be kind to yourself. Instead of counting calories at first why don't you just eat your normal foods and try to stop eating when you are just full?

Long term sustainable weightloss is about changing habits and "tweaking". It's not about gigantic changes that will leave you hungry and miserable.

I agree with this. At first, just cut your normal meals down a bit and see if you lose any weight. Chances are, if you shave off just a little bit everyday, you could lose a pound or two per week. I'd assume that you could eat much closer to 1800 calories.

Here (http://www.eatingwell.com/nutrition_health/weight_loss_diet_plans/diet_meal_plans/7_day_weight_loss_diet_meal_plan?pC=1800&pT=7day_diet&pD=5) is an example of how much food it can be. No need to starve yourself - this isn't torture, it's just a series of little changes that become second nature after time.

You are never stuck - everyday is a new day, and you can get to where you want to be.

Munchy
03-24-2014, 03:05 PM
Oops - double post

Imready85
03-24-2014, 09:08 PM
Thank you all so much for the good words. I go to the store Wednesday. Does anyone know any good healthy recipes. I just need about 4 or 5. Thank you

Pattience
03-25-2014, 04:14 AM
Hi everyone thank you so much for your posts and advice. I just checked this since I posted it, and just ready everything. I went on a binge this whole weekend. I ate everything in sight. Now I weighed myself and I am 285. The most I have ever weighed in my whole life. Last year I weighed 260 and managed to get down to 235. I thought this would be a good post to respond to to give y'all an idea of what I go through and how I eat. Here is an example of what I ate they day before I had a binge:

Breakfast:
Natural Protein Powder Shake w/organic milk-100 calories

Snack:
Fiber One Bar-90 calories

Lunch:
Roasted Chicken- 2 Pieces of Barbecued Chicken-270 calories
Steamed Veggies
Small Portion of Mac N Cheese-150 calories
Wheat toast-110 calories

Afternoon Snack-
Fruit blueberries, strawberries, cantelope

Dinner-
I went jog before dinner and when I got back I had another Protein Shake and a few gummy bears


Just to give y'all an idea. Im puzzled because I do not know examples of a balanced diet or how to execute one. I live in New Orleans and their is great food everywhere at every event you go to. But this is no excuse because I binge on everything even fast food. I was so miserable last night. I could not sleep. I could not breathe. I feel like I still cannot. I am constantly under pressure at work. Eating is my release. It is my number one hobby. My wife, my life and my greatest love. ALl I ever had was food. Wow this is sad to say.

You poor dear. I'm giving you a hug. You have come to a good place and you can learn from us. You can also get very confused by us so hang in there and don't give up. Be patient. You see my name. I call myself patience because i need more of it too.

The first thing that i would say is a problem that needs fixing with what you posted is that you are not eating enough. You have made yourself hungry so its natural to respond with a ravenous appetite.

The good thing is you are trying to eat protein and vegetables and fruit. Keep this up. Try to put fresh vegetables in every meal. A healthy diet, we are told incorporates 5 serves of different vegetables every day. One serve is about half a cup. You don't need to worry if you are not doing this rigorously all the time but try to head towards this. Try to eat 2.5 cups of vegetables every day and if possible 1/2 cup of that should be leafy vegetables like lettuce or spinach. I buy bags of mixed lettuce leaves from the supermarket. Or a cabbage mix. This makes it easier. a half a cup is not a big deal i often just shove it in my mouth with dressing if i'm cooking something else like pasta. Otherwise i chop it into my salads of various kinds.

I'm going to make another version of your menu which i think will serve you better.

Breakfast:
instead of this:
Natural Protein Powder Shake w/organic milk-100 calories

eat this:

1 fried egg on toast in a 1tsp of oil on 1 piece of whole grain toast
1 fried tomato cut in half

1/2 cup natural yoghurt with no added fat. go for whole milk it tastes better.
put 1 apple pear or other fruit you like in your yoghurt. chopped up
add 1tsp of mixed seeds - try sesame, flax or sunflower seeds mixed or not doesn't matter. these are high fat but high mineral content.

Snack:
Fiber One Bar-90 calories

skip this you don't need it. Have a piece of fruit if you do.

Lunch 3-4 hours after a breakfast

Roasted Chicken- 2 Pieces of Barbecued Chicken-270 calories How much does this weigh? Is it high in fat? Maybe leave the skin off.
Steamed Veggies - are ok if you like them. WEre they fresh? If not use fresh.
Small Portion of Mac N Cheese-150 calories (i don't know what that is probably its no good leave it out probably high in salt and fat)- have some salad instead but try to go for one that doesn't have lots of mayonnaise on it if you are buying it. Go for greek salad or other green style salads.
Wheat toast-110 calories is that one piece. later on you should be ok with just chicken and vegies but for now, it won't hurt to keep the toast. Is it whole grain? Give up white bread. It has almost no nutritional value. Its just pure energy and little satisfaction.

Don't eat in food courts. Their food is generally high fat and poor quality. choose better eateries if you are buying and if possible start making some lunches for yourself. We can come to that later.


Afternoon Snack-
Fruit blueberries, strawberries, cant elope - fine. good choices.

Dinner-
I went jog before dinner and when I got back I had another Protein Shake and a few gummy bears

Protein shakes are not real food. One a day is enough. Try to have real food though that you like and is healthy.
Skip the gummy bears while on a diet.

Sounds like your lunch is your main meal. that's fine.
A lighter dinner at home could be 125grams of spaghetti with some sort of fish in it or meat. You could try buying something like smoked salmon and chopping it up and 1/2 cup of tomato pasta sauce. Heat it through. That's very easy.
Have some salad on the side.

My thread has lots of recipes in it. I don't spend ages cooking and i make interesting salads you could try. Start at the end of my thread and look backwards in the link below. MOst of my cooking at the moment is quick and easy.

here a balanced diet includes about

5 serves of vegies when one serve is 1/2 cup of vegies. ideally its five different vegies a day
2 pieces of fruit

2.5 cups of milk and yoghurt per day total for calcium

protein at each meal either palm sized piece of fresh meat or fish, especially fish like salmon or sardines because of the omega 3 fatty acids which are very healthy, two eggs or 100g of beans or lentils

about 2 pieces of wholegrain or 100grams of uncooked pasta. NOt sure what that is in rice

fats - go for vegetables fast like avocados, seeds nuts and oils. But keep your serves small and use yummy things like nuts and seeds mixed in with salads and other recipes so you don't get carried away.

Uses bottled sauces in cooking to make a recipe work. you know like the asian things. soy, hoi sin and so on.

keep away from or keep to only once a week - pastries, cakes, chocolate, sweets, puddings, lollies, tarts, pizza, packet chips, sweetened cereals, flavoured milks, energy bars, dried fruit, deep fried fried foods of any kind.

limit alcohol to no more than one drink a day.

Avoid restaurants where servings are large and covered in cheese. If you are going to eat cheese, keep to a small piece as its almost pure fat but still has nutritional value. Its very salty so easy to want to keep on eating more and more.

Try new foods like korean, japanese at a restaurant not a take away place.
Avoid meat dishes at indian restaurants they are full of nuts, butter and fat. Best avoid indian restaurants really .

Let us know how you get on. We'll give you more tips if you ask.

Dollydimple
03-25-2014, 04:21 AM
What lovely recipes. Great whether you are on a diet or not.
How are things today I'mready? I'm like you, I have to get my head in the right place or I binge. We can do it love. Just that we have a few false starts that's all. Hang in there.
I'm keeping my fingers crossed for you over here in a chilly today, but very bright, UK

yoyoma
03-25-2014, 07:21 AM
I think Pattience made some good suggestions.


I would add the following advice... try to pay attention to when you get hungry soonest after a meal. If you find it is after you eat a meal with starchy carbs (like bread, pasta, or potatoes), try swapping those for more raw or cooked veggies, healthy fats, and bigger servings of protein.

I strongly second the advice about healthy fats to make sure you are eating enough of them (sources like fish, avocado, nuts, etc). These are high calorie but can help you feel more satiated and they are important nutrients. Many people have trouble with portion control on nuts... in my case I intentionally buy raw, unsalted nuts and that makes it easier to count out 10 almonds (or whatever) and that's it.

If this approach to managing your weight still doesn't work well for you, you might investigate some of the other boards and approaches on 3fc, such as intermittent fasting, Atkins, Intuitive Eating and others. There are people who find success with each of these very different approaches.

Good luck and I hope you find an approach that works well for you!

Pattience
03-25-2014, 08:15 AM
Definitely stick with the raw and unsalted nuts and seeds as yoyoma says.

Salted nuts are too morish. And some seeds lose some of their nutrients when heated too much.

I would add another point. You don't have to try to shut down your whole usual way of eating overnight. But i find it best to try to tailor your own meal plans to the style of foods are used to eating. This probably only doesn't work if your diet is extremely unhealthy but it could be adapted still perhaps.

But i mean consider looking at the traditional foods in your region or from your culture too.

Are you able to cook at home? Are you interested in learning how to cook? I recommend it if you want to learn to eat healthy in the long term.

Munchy
03-25-2014, 09:05 AM
Thank you all so much for the good words. I go to the store Wednesday. Does anyone know any good healthy recipes. I just need about 4 or 5. Thank you

Check out www.skinnytaste.com first - it's the best! www.cookinglight.com and www.eatingwell.com have really good recipes too.

kelijpa
03-25-2014, 12:27 PM
I like an old WW exercise, identifying which foods you can control and which ones you can't.

You paid attention to what you were eating and how it made your body/mind feel (kind of like mindfulness or IE) then you would classify foods like a traffic light. Red light foods were ones you couldn't control, yellow were sometimes troublesome, etc. then you could plan better knowing how types of food affect your body.

After awhile you revisit and find that some red light foods might be yellow or vice versa.

The most important thing of all is to keep trying, don't give up, you will find something that works for you and you can live with :sunny:

kelijpa
03-25-2014, 12:53 PM
No need to starve yourself - this isn't torture, it's just a series of little changes that become second nature after time.

You are never stuck - everyday is a new day, and you can get to where you want to be. ~Munchy

This is so, so, so true!
This too:
Long term sustainable weightloss is about changing habits and "tweaking". It's not about gigantic changes that will leave you hungry and miserable.~Locke

Radiojane
03-25-2014, 01:47 PM
I'm glad to know that eating meat, fruit and vegetables puts me in the realm of a Final Fantasy character. :) We're not all "Zealots" and "dieters". Some of us have just done enough personal expiration and intelligent research to find that this is an approach that works for us.

To the original poster: I tried and failed on day one 7 thousand times. I still fail alot, just not completely and not every day. I agree with everyone that says that all the small changes add up over time. For example: I started by cutting out soda. Once I had that conquered I changed my diet to lower calories and more nutrients. Had that under control for a few months before I took up swimming. That being said, I really did have to be in the right head space to make even that initial change.

I'm 19 months in, and I've borrowed tricks, tips and such from probably 15 different plans. It can be quite fun, eventually, learning all you can and figuring out what works for you!

Reaching out is a good start! Ignore redundant arguments and negativity and glean what you can from 3FC, the web, but most importantly your own mileage. You'll figure it out!