Ideal Protein Diet - IP daily chat




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lisa32989
03-20-2014, 07:51 AM
:welcome2:
Welcome back to the Daily Chat thread - post your plans for today, share what's been happening, ask questions!

Some forum lingo:
NSV = Non-scale victory
TOM = time of the month
WI = Weigh-in
WF = Walden Farms
OP = on plan

Bookmarking:
Ideal Protein Sub-forum Home page (http://www.3fatchicks.com/forum/ideal-protein-diet-236/)
Consider making it a bookmark or a favorite in your browser so you can come back easily to get your RDA of Ideal Protein information.

Information for newbies:
Check the sticky page (top of forum, above all the topics) for lots of good information and please read here before asking what might be a frequently asked question (http://www.3fatchicks.com/forum/ideal-protein-diet/243142-have-question-about-ip-read-here-first-before-posting-question.html): Information on Ideal Protein phases (1-4), IP Ultimate List Recipes, FAQ, Newbie Guide, Exercise, and other Important Threads,
(http://www.3fatchicks.com/forum/ideal-protein-diet/238801-ip-ultimate-list-recipes-faq-newbie-guide-exercise-other-important-threads.html)and here are the most recent Ideal Protein Protocol sheets (http://www.3fatchicks.com/forum/4701599-post49.html)

And before you cheat, read this thread:
The Real Cost of Cheating on Ideal Protein (http://www.3fatchicks.com/forum/ideal-protein-diet/221536-real-cost-cheating-ideal-protein.html)

Before starting new threads: spend some time reading the forum. Most new threads are duplicates, triplicates, quadruplicates. Folks who are the most successful, make time for research/reading.

More Recipes Here Mix'n in the kitchen...Recipes from the Rainbow (http://www.3fatchicks.com/forum/ideal-protein-diet/261885-mixn-kitchn-recipes-rainbow.html)
MiX'N' iN THE KiTCH'N.... Recipes from the Rainbow Volume 2 (http://www.3fatchicks.com/forum/ideal-protein-diet/268669-mixn-kitchn-recipes-rainbow-volumn-2-a.html)
Fun with Ideal Protein Packets (http://www.3fatchicks.com/forum/ideal-protein-diet/212175-fun-ideal-protein-packets.html)
Fun with Veggie Purees! (http://www.3fatchicks.com/forum/ideal-protein-diet/264231-fun-veggie-purees.html)
Ideal Protein Diet Recipes #4 (http://www.3fatchicks.com/forum/ideal-protein-diet/273856-ideal-protein-diet-recipes-4-a.html)
Tips and Recipes from the Incredible Weight Loss Center (http://www.3fatchicks.com/forum/ideal-protein-diet/270950-ideal-protein-tips-recipes-incredible-weight-loss-center.html)

For those looking for alternative products
Here is a thread with tons of info. Spend some time in it. http://www.3fatchicks.com/forum/ideal-protein-diet/270731-alternative-products-will-work-phase-1-a.html
And here is a link to a chart (http://www.3fatchicks.com/forum/4677467-post240.html) to help you choose appropriate products

Tickers and Signatures:
There are 2 requirements to have access to signatures and tickers. You must have been a member of 3fatchicks for 20 days AND posted at least 20 messages anywhere on the 3fatchicks forum. When you've met those requirements check The Ultimate Signature and Ticker Thread (http://www.3fatchicks.com/forum/announcements-forum-help/203435-ultimate-one-stop-signature-ticker-thread-read-here-if-you-have-questions.html) for more information and instructions.

Quoting:
The best quoting tip - EVER!! (http://www.3fatchicks.com/forum/3427715-post155.html) Thanks Rosie, aka 6710.

Searching:
If you can't find what you're looking for in this forum using the website search function, try using the "double search" using Google.

1) Go to Google.com. Search 3fatchicks by using the term site:3fatchicks.com at the end of your Google search.

For example, if you want to look for "big mac in a bowl", type "big mac in a bowl site:3fatchicks.com" in Google search. No need to include the quotation marks when you type.

2) This will bring up the page that you are looking for, now hit Ctrl+F to search on that page. Type "big mac in a bowl" and all instances of that search term will be highlighted.

Progress photos
Mini-Goal Photo Album (http://www.3fatchicks.com/forum/mini-goals-201/).

Other helpful links related to the Ideal Protein Dr. Chanh Tran Tien's website (http://www.trantiendiet.com/site/spip.php?rubrique19)


lisa32989
03-20-2014, 07:57 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by nicoleroper
"Hey guys, I buy the pure protein bars from Sam's. They r good. They r kinda at the upper limits for an ideal protein food. I have started limiting myself to 1 non restricted a week. Hoping this will help increase my pace of weight lost. It is beautiful weather here in South LA. It is a shame to not be running. Oh well, I sure running in July in the 90 temps and 100%humidity will b just fine."

From Lisa: You meant limit RESTRICTED, correct? Most people find IP works really well the way it is written (using 1 restricted/day) and doesn't need hacking. Exceptions to this would be if you are extremely carb sensitive, which is only a small portion of people. If you are exercising, I WOULD NOT cut out the restricted. Instead, plan your day well and stick to the p1protocol like glue. Deviations slow weight loss. Also, those with less weight to lose move slower.

Quote: Originally Posted by nicoleroper
"What is everyone's thoughts on egg white omelets? I have look at nutritional values and it looks better than most IP food"

from Lisa: I responded to this the other spot you asked
1 whole egg + 2 egg whites = omelet packet for anyone doing alts


Quote:
Originally Posted by Nas145
"HELP!!!!! How far apart should your meals be???? just got home from work about to have my Proti Diet chicken noodle soup. I am a newbie.....3rd day......"

From RuthAnn
Congrats on making it to day 3! You're well on your way!

Meal timing kind of depends on what works with your life. You don't want to eat everything all at once, but how you break it up really depends on what works for you.

For example, my schedule during the week looks kind of like:

5-5:30ish: breakfast
9:30-10ish: hard-boiled egg or IP snack
1:30-2ish: lunch
6:30-7ish: dinner
8:30-9ish: snack (unless I had it earlier in the day)

trinny
03-20-2014, 08:54 AM
Morning all!

Just thought I'd share a product I tried last night that I thought was really good. I had the Birds Eye Lightly Seasoned Garlic Cauliflower. It's just a frozen steam-in-the-bag veggie you toss into the micro for six minutes. Really delicious and so easy. DH (not a veggie fan) also liked it, so may be a good one to try for people who are struggling to get their veggies in.

I'm going to get a few more bags this weekend and toss a couple in the freezer at work for those days I'm running late and can't pack my salad.


Yayalaine
03-20-2014, 09:01 AM
Morning all!

Just thought I'd share a product I tried last night that I thought was really good. I had the Birds Eye Lightly Seasoned Garlic Cauliflower. It's just a frozen steam-in-the-bag veggie you toss into the micro for six minutes. Really delicious and so easy. DH (not a veggie fan) also liked it, so may be a good one to try for people who are struggling to get their veggies in.

I'm going to get a few more bags this weekend and toss a couple in the freezer at work for those days I'm running late and can't pack my salad.

That sounds much better than my emergency food stash in my office! Right now, I have a few cans of spinach and turnip greens in case I forget to bring a lunch. :p: I pack my lunches the night before, but have been known to walk out without them in the mornings. I have a mini fridge in office that could hold maybe one or two frozen steam bags.

Ruth Ann
03-20-2014, 09:08 AM
Morning all!

Just thought I'd share a product I tried last night that I thought was really good. I had the Birds Eye Lightly Seasoned Garlic Cauliflower. It's just a frozen steam-in-the-bag veggie you toss into the micro for six minutes. Really delicious and so easy. DH (not a veggie fan) also liked it, so may be a good one to try for people who are struggling to get their veggies in.

I'm going to get a few more bags this weekend and toss a couple in the freezer at work for those days I'm running late and can't pack my salad.

I'd be a little skeptical of using that regularly. Here's the ingredient list:

Ingredients: Cauliflower, Seasoning (Salt, Sugar, Garlic Powder, Dehydrated Onion, Maltodextrin, Dehydrated Garlic, Spice, Natural Flavor, Soy Lecithin), Soybean Oil

It's mainly the seasonings that concern me (not the cauliflower!) - seasonings should be 0/0/0. You might want to try using frozen cauliflower for an emergency stash and your own seasonings.

trinny
03-20-2014, 09:23 AM
Say it ain't so, Ruth Ann! Seems like there's always a catch...

lisa32989
03-20-2014, 09:25 AM
Morning all!

Just thought I'd share a product I tried last night that I thought was really good. I had the Birds Eye Lightly Seasoned Garlic Cauliflower. It's just a frozen steam-in-the-bag veggie you toss into the micro for six minutes. Really delicious and so easy. DH (not a veggie fan) also liked it, so may be a good one to try for people who are struggling to get their veggies in.

I'm going to get a few more bags this weekend and toss a couple in the freezer at work for those days I'm running late and can't pack my salad.

I'd be a little skeptical of using that regularly. Here's the ingredient list:

Ingredients: Cauliflower, Seasoning (Salt, Sugar, Garlic Powder, Dehydrated Onion, Maltodextrin, Dehydrated Garlic, Spice, Natural Flavor, Soy Lecithin), Soybean Oil

It's mainly the seasonings that concern me (not the cauliflower!) - seasonings should be 0/0/0. You might want to try using frozen cauliflower for an emergency stash and your own seasonings.
Ruth Ann: You beat me to it.

Cauliflower should have 0 fat. This has 15 calories from fat (per 1 c. serving). Plus both maltodextrin and sugar are carbs AND soybean oil isn't good for us. This is what happens with processed foods.

0/0/0= carbs/sugar/fat (some people mistakenly say "calories" but that isn't one of the zeros

I'm sure this tastes great. I blame food processing companies for creating foods we crave and making us fat. Here's what I'd do:

Have some plain frozen "emergency food" and a plan for how to "spice it up"

In my cupboard I have pepper, garlic pepper, garlic salt & pepper, and garlic salt. One of those combos works on many things. Additionally, I have many, many spices. Old Bay is another great combo spice that works on lots of stuff :)
I even used my now empty small Real Salt shaker (from my IP started pack) & refilled it with my garlic salt/pepper mixture so I can have a small shaker at work.

ems70508
03-20-2014, 09:29 AM
It's a great idea to keep frozen veggies at the office! I try to as well. I also keep a zip lock with my favorite spices in my desk drawer. It's nice when I make soup at work. It's got garlic powder, onion powder, red pepper flakes, sea salt, pepper and salt free tony chachere's!

trinny
03-20-2014, 09:30 AM
Thanks, Lisa. I'm usually a huge proponent of "real food" versus anything processed. I don't typically use any produce that isn't fresh - very rarely frozen veg and never, ever canned. This just seemed so darned convenient and easy to keep on hand at work. And tasty to boot!

I think I'll still keep a bag in the freezer at work for "emergencies" because it's still better than nothing but I won't add them to the regular menu.

lisa32989
03-20-2014, 09:38 AM
Thanks, Lisa. I'm usually a huge proponent of "real food" versus anything processed. I don't typically use any produce that isn't fresh - very rarely frozen veg and never, ever canned. This just seemed so darned convenient and easy to keep on hand at work. And tasty to boot!

I think I'll still keep a bag in the freezer at work for "emergencies" because it's still better than nothing but I won't add them to the regular menu.
I wouldn't add other oil that day, and I'd probably forgo my restricted (replace with a non), just to make sure the added fat/calories in the veggies don't haunt me.

This is exactly why I make my smoothies in the morning with spinach and I usually have either zucchini muffins or another smoothie for lunch.
I can always have a giant salad with my meat for dinner and no veggies if I've consumed them all earlier in the day. Then I don't need emergency veggies.

How about keeping a jar of Bubbies pickles for an emergency? Don't even need to cook! As a matter of fact, I think I'm gonna buy a spare, as well!

danilynn
03-20-2014, 09:57 AM
hello,

i'm feeling a bit discouraged today.. :( i stepped on the scale and no change. Things that could potentially attribute to that -- TOM. How long should that last i dunno, but it really put a damper in my morning today.

Hope all is well in the virtual land with you all..

-Dani

drd1961
03-20-2014, 10:06 AM
http://www.***************.net/articles/scale_lies.htm

sunflwr816
03-20-2014, 10:40 AM
Question.....has anyone else found that they are colder than normal while doing IP? For the past few weeks I feel like I can never warm up!! I've even been wearing sweats and socks to bed -- totally out of the norm for me. I eat red meat at least 2x per week and take an iron supplement so I don't think it's anemia (energy levels are also the same). Hmm...

wildirishrose
03-20-2014, 10:48 AM
Question.....has anyone else found that they are colder than normal while doing IP? For the past few weeks I feel like I can never warm up!! I've even been wearing sweats and socks to bed -- totally out of the norm for me. I eat red meat at least 2x per week and take an iron supplement so I don't think it's anemia (energy levels are also the same). Hmm...

OH MY GOSH, YES!! Yesterday I spent the day under 2 blankets just trying to be slightly less cold. I have poor circulation, so I have that working against me....and total I've lost 23# so far, so I suppose that could make a difference in warmth too! I just asked my DH to buy me a mini rebounder so I could stay warm!

LuvA1exa
03-20-2014, 10:50 AM
Question.....has anyone else found that they are colder than normal while doing IP? For the past few weeks I feel like I can never warm up!! I've even been wearing sweats and socks to bed -- totally out of the norm for me. I eat red meat at least 2x per week and take an iron supplement so I don't think it's anemia (energy levels are also the same). Hmm...

Hi sunflwr816 - YES- I have been on IP for three weeks and haven't felt like I could get warm. I take a sweater with me everywhere I go. It was almost warfare when I spent an hour in the car with my sister not on IP and she kept asking me to turn the heat down. :-) Of course she had fried shrimp with fries and I had filet with broccoli for dinner.

shrinkingsusie
03-20-2014, 10:52 AM
Good morning all!

Another no week loss. I didn't scale hop at all this week, so it was a bit of a disappointment.

Last night I woke up with the worst heartburn I have ever had in my life. I took three tums which did nothing for me, then some pesto bismal 45 minutes later which helped enough that I could actually lay back down to go to sleep. Hope I didn't knock myself out of ketosis. If I did, the relief I got was worth it. I will just drink extra water today and cross my fingers for next weeks weigh in!

shrinkingsusie
03-20-2014, 10:53 AM
I was thinking of cutting restricteds for the week to see if that helps. Any advice on that? I know there was a bit of discussion on restricted at the beginning of this thread.

Mulse
03-20-2014, 10:54 AM
I had my very first WI this morning and am VERY excited about the 16.6lbs I lost this week!!!

With a loss like that, who wouldn't be motivated to keep going?

sunflwr816
03-20-2014, 10:56 AM
I had my very first WI this morning and am VERY excited about the 16.6lbs I lost this week!!!

With a loss like that, who wouldn't be motivated to keep going?

Wowza, congrats!!!!! You've lost more in one week than I have in 6 :D Keep up the awesome work!

Janelstpe
03-20-2014, 10:58 AM
Good morning everyone! I was curious what type of sweetener everyone uses in their coffee? I was a sweet n low user and switched to Splenda, not really loving it, but willing to tolerate it if I can loose weight! Lol!

kontesanera
03-20-2014, 11:07 AM
Good morning all!

Another no week loss. I didn't scale hop at all this week, so it was a bit of a disappointment.

Last night I woke up with the worst heartburn I have ever had in my life. I took three tums which did nothing for me, then some pesto bismal 45 minutes later which helped enough that I could actually lay back down to go to sleep. Hope I didn't knock myself out of ketosis. If I did, the relief I got was worth it. I will just drink extra water today and cross my fingers for next weeks weigh in!

Hey Susie, I was self medicating for years thinking I had the "worst heartburn ever", but it was gallstones. If you have not already, maybe you should check it out. Just a thought.

sunflwr816
03-20-2014, 11:09 AM
Good morning everyone! I was curious what type of sweetener everyone uses in their coffee? I was a sweet n low user and switched to Splenda, not really loving it, but willing to tolerate it if I can lose weight! Lol!

I use 1/2 packet of Truvia per cup. If I drink flavored coffee, I don't use any sweetener.

Just realized there's 3g carbs in each packet. Hmm...maybe time to use something else.

ssubert
03-20-2014, 11:10 AM
Good morning everyone! I was curious what type of sweetener everyone uses in their coffee? I was a sweet n low user and switched to Splenda, not really loving it, but willing to tolerate it if I can lose weight! Lol!

I like stevia.

I saw the Chef in IP video using liquid stevia. Couple of drops in the rhubarb recipe plus spoon of WF jam.

Nas145
03-20-2014, 11:27 AM
I had my very first WI this morning and am VERY excited about the 16.6lbs I lost this week!!!

With a loss like that, who wouldn't be motivated to keep going?

Wow thats great:carrot:.....All the best for the rest of your journey

ssubert
03-20-2014, 11:37 AM
I had my very first WI this morning and am VERY excited about the 16.6lbs I lost this week!!!

With a loss like that, who wouldn't be motivated to keep going?

WOW!!!!!
That's great. Congrats.
Remember to get in your salt and all your supplements especially now.
:carrot:

sapphire83
03-20-2014, 11:38 AM
Question.....has anyone else found that they are colder than normal while doing IP? For the past few weeks I feel like I can never warm up!! I've even been wearing sweats and socks to bed -- totally out of the norm for me. I eat red meat at least 2x per week and take an iron supplement so I don't think it's anemia (energy levels are also the same). Hmm...

Same here! I always feel cold.

sapphire83
03-20-2014, 11:41 AM
First, thanks for all the advice from yesterday on the big c. I was in such pain it was by far the hardest day yet.

Yesterday I was able to totally avoid party food we had at work for a going away party. Second my sister told me how proud she was when I told her I resisted.

Have a great day everyone.

ems70508
03-20-2014, 11:42 AM
sunflwr816, my coworkers joke about not having any body fat left to keep me warm. I say, if that's my problem, LAYER THE CLOTHES! Of course they're joking but it's very true. You're loosing layers that keep your body warmer! You'll adjust!

kontesanera
03-20-2014, 11:43 AM
Question.....has anyone else found that they are colder than normal while doing IP? For the past few weeks I feel like I can never warm up!! I've even been wearing sweats and socks to bed -- totally out of the norm for me. I eat red meat at least 2x per week and take an iron supplement so I don't think it's anemia (energy levels are also the same). Hmm...

I have always been hot, but since doing IP I am way way colder. Some days I go to bed earlier just to get all cozied up. I always slept in a nighty, but find that is not good enough any more.

Also, Try drinking you coffee without any pollution (sweetener, milk). It is awesome! You do have to get good quality coffee tough.

Runner68girl
03-20-2014, 11:47 AM
hello,

i'm feeling a bit discouraged today.. :( i stepped on the scale and no change. Things that could potentially attribute to that -- TOM. How long should that last i dunno, but it really put a damper in my morning today.

Hope all is well in the virtual land with you all..

-Dani

Dani - I have often felt the way you do today - but try to remember that you are still losing inches. The scale should not dictate how we feel and the successes we're having. I would encourage you to put the scale away for now. I am a week in with no weighing as every time I stepped on to the scale the numbers would fluctuate so much. I know sometimes we need to see how well we're doing to boost our confidence and morale, but I feel so much better knowing I'm not defined by a number on the scale.
I hope you have a better day - just keep focused and know you're on the right track! ;)

murphypuppy
03-20-2014, 11:51 AM
I had my very first WI this morning and am VERY excited about the 16.6lbs I lost this week!!!

With a loss like that, who wouldn't be motivated to keep going?

Woo hoo!!! That is awesome! :carrot:

sunflwr816
03-20-2014, 11:54 AM
sunflwr816, my coworkers joke about not having any body fat left to keep me warm. I say, if that's my problem, LAYER THE CLOTHES! Of course they're joking but it's very true. You're loosing layers that keep your body warmer! You'll adjust!

True -- I just wish Mother Nature would get the memo and end this cold! Happy first day of Spring BTW!! :sunny::df:

RA 2
03-20-2014, 11:57 AM
Good afternoon everyone - Happy Spring! This is a great forum, and I'm so glad you are all here - such a wonderful resource through this journey!

I am really encouraged with my progress on IP. The weight has come off slowly and steadily. I set my goal at the beginning to lose 20 pounds, just a random number off the top of my head. I've lost the same 20-25 a couple of times, and really want this to be the last. At my weigh ins, I tend to be 3 to 4 pounds heavier because of the time of day I check in, am fully clothed and already had two meals. That hasn't bothered me because I figured by the time I met my goal, I would be that much lighter on my home scale.

My dilemma is that I have surgery coming up on May 7. I'm thinking I may want to set a new goal past the 20 pounds, but I'm also wondering whether I should take four weeks prior to May 7 to phase off? The hospital stay is expected to be 1 to 2 days, with a 1 to 2 week recovery at home. I don't want to go through re-starting IP again if I do want to lose more after surgery, but since it does come off slowly (had a plateau for 2 weeks at 152; now 2 weeks at 144) I may not be ready to phase off 2 weeks from now. Also, four pounds out from goal doesn't feel like I will want to stop losing.

Sorry, for the long post, but thought I would put the question out to all of the wonderful experts here. Do you think it would be doable to stay on P1 in hospital? It is an hour's drive from my home, so my family wouldn't be able to deliver my food - and who knows what the food would be like there?

murphypuppy
03-20-2014, 12:02 PM
Good morning!
I had my weigh in yesterday and I lost 3.5 pounds (yay) but the past 2 weeks I have also lost some lean mass.... I have not been eating anything that I should not be eating and have been 100% on the plan, except for last weekend when I had to have 2 EAS shakes when I was traveling (the airport security confiscated my shakes).

karkrazy13
03-20-2014, 12:09 PM
I had my very first WI this morning and am VERY excited about the 16.6lbs I lost this week!!!

With a loss like that, who wouldn't be motivated to keep going?

Holy crap! That's AWESOME!! :congrat:

Were you exercising, or just following the plan? I'm so impressed, I want to do whatever you're doing!! ;)

Runner68girl
03-20-2014, 12:14 PM
I had my very first WI this morning and am VERY excited about the 16.6lbs I lost this week!!!

With a loss like that, who wouldn't be motivated to keep going?

Mulse - nice work on your loss!! Slightly jealous ha ha.... wish I could drop big numbers like that - but a loss, is a loss! Thanks for sharing your victory!!

Nas145
03-20-2014, 12:20 PM
Morning Guys,

I am looking at mu post and i am seeing that i am invisible.:o what does that mean....please explain. Can you even see my post.

dmp005
03-20-2014, 12:30 PM
Happy First Day of Spring!
I've been following for months and have learned so much from all of you. I have to post this morning's breakfast, as it was my best IP meal yet! Here's the recipe in case you haven't tried them.

Potato Pancakes
1 packet potato purée
3 egg whites
1 tsp baking powder
1/2 tsp garlic powder
Salt, pepper
Oil for frying

Beat egg whites to soft peaks. Add remainder, fold gently with spatula until mixed. Let stand for 4 minutes. Heat oil over medium-high heat, scoop into 4 or 5 patties. Leave on first side until firm enough to flip, cook on other side for 3-4 minutes then press down with flipper and cook a few minutes more. Flip again and press down. Keep cooking until middle is firm and both sides are browned.

CarbLover443
03-20-2014, 12:39 PM
I had my very first WI this morning and am VERY excited about the 16.6lbs I lost this week!!!

With a loss like that, who wouldn't be motivated to keep going?

That's AMAZING!!!!!!!!!!:bravo:

I just got back from weighing and getting measured. Down 2.2 this week and 4 inches. I'll take it!

My coach did say to start having my restricted at lunchtime to help me with afternoon hunger.

danilynn
03-20-2014, 12:43 PM
Good afternoon everyone - Happy Spring! This is a great forum, and I'm so glad you are all here - such a wonderful resource through this journey!

I am really encouraged with my progress on IP. The weight has come off slowly and steadily. I set my goal at the beginning to lose 20 pounds, just a random number off the top of my head. I've lost the same 20-25 a couple of times, and really want this to be the last. At my weigh ins, I tend to be 3 to 4 pounds heavier because of the time of day I check in, am fully clothed and already had two meals. That hasn't bothered me because I figured by the time I met my goal, I would be that much lighter on my home scale.

My dilemma is that I have surgery coming up on May 7. I'm thinking I may want to set a new goal past the 20 pounds, but I'm also wondering whether I should take four weeks prior to May 7 to phase off? The hospital stay is expected to be 1 to 2 days, with a 1 to 2 week recovery at home. I don't want to go through re-starting IP again if I do want to lose more after surgery, but since it does come off slowly (had a plateau for 2 weeks at 152; now 2 weeks at 144) I may not be ready to phase off 2 weeks from now. Also, four pounds out from goal doesn't feel like I will want to stop losing.

Sorry, for the long post, but thought I would put the question out to all of the wonderful experts here. Do you think it would be doable to stay on P1 in hospital? It is an hour's drive from my home, so my family wouldn't be able to deliver my food - and who knows what the food would be like there?

Speaking from my boss's experience with going to the IP clinic and then having knee surgery -- he was told by his coach that he needed to phase off a week before the surgery and stay phased off till he has completed his recovery time. So, i am not sure how that would apply to you. Have you spoken with the doctor or your surgeon?

danilynn
03-20-2014, 12:46 PM
Morning Guys,

I am looking at mu post and i am seeing that i am invisible.:o what does that mean....please explain. Can you even see my post.

this kind of reminds me of the Verizon commercial.. "can you hear me". :D

where do you see that you are invisible? im looking all over mine and i cant see that.. :dz:

RA 2
03-20-2014, 12:50 PM
Speaking from my boss's experience with going to the IP clinic and then having knee surgery -- he was told by his coach that he needed to phase off a week before the surgery and stay phased off till he has completed his recovery time. So, i am not sure how that would apply to you. Have you spoken with the doctor or your surgeon?

Thanks for the reply. I met the surgeon for the first time at the consult last week, and didn't have the surgery date until after we met. At my weigh in yesterday, my coach agreed with phasing off because I'm close to goal and have six weeks to work with. I just don't want to get stuck at a weight I'm not completely happy with, although perhaps I would lose a few after surgery because of the "down" time?

danilynn
03-20-2014, 01:00 PM
Thanks for the reply. I met the surgeon for the first time at the consult last week, and didn't have the surgery date until after we met. At my weigh in yesterday, my coach agreed with phasing off because I'm close to goal and have six weeks to work with. I just don't want to get stuck at a weight I'm not completely happy with, although perhaps I would lose a few after surgery because of the "down" time?

Did your coach indicate how long you were to phase off? With my boss, he was phased off for a month and half, though he ate 'low fat and carb' still (not the IP way) and only gain the 5lbs of water weight. Once he was back on the plan, his coach stuck him phase for a few weeks then moved him back up to where he was at before phasing off.

Its possible you can still lose even after surgery, but if and when you do phase off, remember the tools your coach gave you for your eating habits. Keep it relatively healthy and low carb -- i think you'll be fine. My boss didn't stall with his weight.. he just kept going. AND before you know it, you'll be back on plan and on your way to kicking your goal off the charts! :hug:

RA 2
03-20-2014, 01:23 PM
Thanks again, Danilynn. My coach was thinking phasing off to maintenance since I'm close to goal. Your comments are helpful and appreciated. I guess I can see what the next two weeks bring. You're right, I have the tools, and maybe if I keep it low fat and carb, it wouldn't be so hard going back to P1 if I wanted to lose more.

sweetenuf
03-20-2014, 01:29 PM
Good morning everyone! I was curious what type of sweetener everyone uses in their coffee? I was a sweet n low user and switched to Splenda, not really loving it, but willing to tolerate it if I can lose weight! Lol!

My mom is diabetic and she uses Stevia in the raw, so I figured if is what she uses I wouldn't question it lol. Doesn't leave an after taste either.

sweetenuf
03-20-2014, 01:33 PM
Morning Guys,

I am looking at mu post and i am seeing that i am invisible.:o what does that mean....please explain. Can you even see my post.

I see this post :)

catlady1981
03-20-2014, 01:35 PM
Question.....has anyone else found that they are colder than normal while doing IP? For the past few weeks I feel like I can never warm up!! I've even been wearing sweats and socks to bed -- totally out of the norm for me. I eat red meat at least 2x per week and take an iron supplement so I don't think it's anemia (energy levels are also the same). Hmm...

I am always cold. Even before I started IP. I run my heater under my desk all day at work. Yesterday I had the building people close all the vents in my office because I was convinced that cold air was blowing on me. Sunday night, I wore my fluffy bathrobe to bed, heavy socks, and two blankets. I could not get warm and it was 50 degrees outside. Crazy! Since other things are out of whack, insulin resistance, weight, maybe internal temperature control is broken too.

Trishlo73
03-20-2014, 01:49 PM
My husband and I started 3/16. We've been using EAS AdvantEdge shakes and following the rest of the plan. We've both lost weight, day 4 he's lost 9lbs and I've lost 8.

I know its mostly water weight the first week, due to us drinking our water. The problem I have is that I don't like most veggie and the ones permitted on Phase 1 are the ones I don't like.I can't eat Broccoli or cauliflower unless its finely minced into something else. Husband loves Broccoli.

I can't live on dill pickles or can I? I'm drinking my water, but I'm probably only eating 1 cups of veggies for the whole day.

Any suggestions for a Veggie Hater like me?

Runner68girl
03-20-2014, 02:05 PM
Morning Guys,

I am looking at mu post and i am seeing that i am invisible.:o what does that mean....please explain. Can you even see my post.

Hi Nas!! sure - we can see you! :)

kontesanera
03-20-2014, 02:39 PM
My husband and I started 3/16. We've been using EAS AdvantEdge shakes and following the rest of the plan. We've both lost weight, day 4 he's lost 9lbs and I've lost 8.

I know its mostly water weight the first week, due to us drinking our water. The problem I have is that I don't like most veggie and the ones permitted on Phase 1 are the ones I don't like.I can't eat Broccoli or cauliflower unless its finely minced into something else. Husband loves Broccoli.

I can't live on dill pickles or can I? I'm drinking my water, but I'm probably only eating 1 cups of veggies for the whole day.

Any suggestions for a Veggie Hater like me?

My suggestion is to just mince your broccoli and cauliflower. You don't need to eat a variety of veggies, you have to get your 4 cups in. You can make cauliflower rice and it is surprisingly good.

Why don't you put your shakes in a blender and add some spinach or kale to it?

Also try eating your salads and lettuce with WF dressing. Try different kinds and find what you like.

If you cannot eat your veggies, this diet will be very difficult for you, as they are very important for fibre that they provide and for filing our tummies so we do not reach for junky convenience foods.

jendilly
03-20-2014, 02:42 PM
Had my weekly WI today and I'm down 2.2 pounds. I've officially gone past the 30 pounds lost mark...and HALFWAY to my ultimate goal. :carrot:

I am cold all the time, also. It especially hits me in the afternoon, so I usually drink some decaf herbal tea then to warm up. My hands are always cold though.

Happy First Day of Spring!! We made it through another winter...although it's only mid 40s here today.

ssubert
03-20-2014, 02:46 PM
Regarding being invisible.
Go to UserCP and you can edit your profile, there's an option to be "invisible"

Invisible mode allows you to browse the forums without appearing in the 'Currently Active Users' lists.

karkrazy13
03-20-2014, 02:48 PM
Good morning everyone! I was curious what type of sweetener everyone uses in their coffee? I was a sweet n low user and switched to Splenda, not really loving it, but willing to tolerate it if I can lose weight! Lol!

I use Nectresse (made from Monk Fruit) in my tea, and I love it!! :D No aftertaste at all... and it's 100% natural! :carrot:

karkrazy13
03-20-2014, 02:51 PM
My husband and I started 3/16. We've been using EAS AdvantEdge shakes and following the rest of the plan. We've both lost weight, day 4 he's lost 9lbs and I've lost 8.

I know its mostly water weight the first week, due to us drinking our water. The problem I have is that I don't like most veggie and the ones permitted on Phase 1 are the ones I don't like.I can't eat Broccoli or cauliflower unless its finely minced into something else. Husband loves Broccoli.

I can't live on dill pickles or can I? I'm drinking my water, but I'm probably only eating 1 cups of veggies for the whole day.

Any suggestions for a Veggie Hater like me?

I blend frozen spinach into my protein shake every morning, and I can't taste the spinach at all! :) It's a good way to get 1 or even 2 cups of veggies in without tasting them! ;)

*BTW, 1/6 cup of frozen spinach = 1 cup of raw spinach, and 1/3 cup of frozen spinach = 2 cups of raw spinach... so easy to get in 2 cups if blended with a shake!! :carrot:

Runner68girl
03-20-2014, 02:57 PM
That's AMAZING!!!!!!!!!!:bravo:

I just got back from weighing and getting measured. Down 2.2 this week and 4 inches. I'll take it!

My coach did say to start having my restricted at lunchtime to help me with afternoon hunger.

CarbLover - Great job on the losses this week. Do you find you're hungry mid-morning as well? What do you snack on in the morning? I am following alternative products to IP, but still within the protocol of IP. I usually have my restricted snack at 10AM, as that is when I'm starting to need something. But I still do feel like munching around 3Pm... I guess I could eat unrestricted veggies at that time..

LuvA1exa
03-20-2014, 02:59 PM
I know its mostly water weight the first week, due to us drinking our water. The problem I have is that I don't like most veggie and the ones permitted on Phase 1 are the ones I don't like.I can't eat Broccoli or cauliflower unless its finely minced into something else. Husband loves Broccoli

Trishlo - I have the same problem. I have weird allergies to certain veggies and have become really picky as a result. Sometimes I feel like a five year old and have to find ways to hide my veggies. I do foil packets where I steam them with my protein, a little chicken stock and EVOO and they taste more like the protein. Especially if they are chopped small. I also love that we can have rhubarb. Cook it down and mix it with a little WF jam to sweeten and its like a dessert. Kale chips are another good alternative. They are easy to make and a great way to get in more veg. Good luck!

karkrazy13
03-20-2014, 03:05 PM
Trishlo - I have the same problem. I have weird allergies to certain veggies and have become really picky as a result. Sometimes I feel like a five year old and have to find ways to hide my veggies. I do foil packets where I steam them with my protein, a little chicken stock and EVOO and they taste more like the protein. Especially if they are chopped small. I also love that we can have rhubarb. Cook it down and mix it with a little WF jam to sweeten and its like a dessert. Kale chips are another good alternative. They are easy to make and a great way to get in more veg. Good luck!

As I told Trishlo:

I blend frozen spinach into my protein shake every morning, and I can't taste the spinach at all! It's a good way to get 1 or even 2 cups of veggies in without tasting them! ;)

*BTW, 1/6 cup of frozen spinach = 1 cup of raw spinach, and 1/3 cup of frozen spinach = 2 cups of raw spinach... so easy to get in 2 cups if blended with a shake!! :carrot:

Runner68girl
03-20-2014, 03:10 PM
How do I have access to the weight tracker??

CarbLover443
03-20-2014, 03:10 PM
CarbLover - Great job on the losses this week. Do you find you're hungry mid-morning as well? What do you snack on in the morning? I am following alternative products to IP, but still within the protocol of IP. I usually have my restricted snack at 10AM, as that is when I'm starting to need something. But I still do feel like munching around 3Pm... I guess I could eat unrestricted veggies at that time..

I definitely find myself hungry around 10am every morning. I usually just stick it out til lunch around 12:30. And then the 3pm hunger strike hits and by the time I get home to eat dinner..I'm ravenous.

CarbLover443
03-20-2014, 03:12 PM
My husband and I started 3/16. We've been using EAS AdvantEdge shakes and following the rest of the plan. We've both lost weight, day 4 he's lost 9lbs and I've lost 8.

I know its mostly water weight the first week, due to us drinking our water. The problem I have is that I don't like most veggie and the ones permitted on Phase 1 are the ones I don't like.I can't eat Broccoli or cauliflower unless its finely minced into something else. Husband loves Broccoli.

I can't live on dill pickles or can I? I'm drinking my water, but I'm probably only eating 1 cups of veggies for the whole day.

Any suggestions for a Veggie Hater like me?

Can you make a soup with some chicken stock and seasonings and get your veggies in that way?

Nas145
03-20-2014, 04:12 PM
this kind of reminds me of the Verizon commercial.. "can you hear me". :D

where do you see that you are invisible? im looking all over mine and i cant see that.. :dz:


Hi Danilynn,

Its under my profile where my weight is display beside the big red question mark there is a pink red dot when the cursor is over it it says "Nas145 is invisible".....crazy:dizzy:

Ruth Ann
03-20-2014, 05:23 PM
Thanks again, Danilynn. My coach was thinking phasing off to maintenance since I'm close to goal. Your comments are helpful and appreciated. I guess I can see what the next two weeks bring. You're right, I have the tools, and maybe if I keep it low fat and carb, it wouldn't be so hard going back to P1 if I wanted to lose more.

RA 2 - Depending on what your surgery is you can stay on P1 if your surgeon agrees. And of course you should talk to your surgeon and get the okay.

I had a hernia operation and then a follow up operation and stayed in P1 the whole time with no problems. We did increase my protein some to promote healing. While I was in the hospital I had mostly S&V ridges, RTD chocolate, and chocolate pudding. I was able to order some foods at the hospital since they had an extensive menu, but not sure all hospitals are like that.

Of course, you're getting really close to your goal (congrats!) so you may be close enough that you would be more comfortable phasing off for the operation.

Anyway, just something to think about. I really didn't find it hard to stay on P1 during recovery (didn't eat everything I should a few days but having the ease of P1 was really nice).

Best of luck with your operation!

Ruth Ann
03-20-2014, 05:30 PM
Trishlo - I have the same problem. I have weird allergies to certain veggies and have become really picky as a result. Sometimes I feel like a five year old and have to find ways to hide my veggies. I do foil packets where I steam them with my protein, a little chicken stock and EVOO and they taste more like the protein. Especially if they are chopped small. I also love that we can have rhubarb. Cook it down and mix it with a little WF jam to sweeten and its like a dessert. Kale chips are another good alternative. They are easy to make and a great way to get in more veg. Good luck!

Look up in the stickies or the first post of the daily chat and there is a thread on veggie purees - so good in soups or as a sauce! I have come to prefer roasted red pepper puree over tomato sauce.

Vippysue
03-20-2014, 05:36 PM
My husband and I started 3/16. We've been using EAS AdvantEdge shakes and following the rest of the plan. We've both lost weight, day 4 he's lost 9lbs and I've lost 8.

I know its mostly water weight the first week, due to us drinking our water. The problem I have is that I don't like most veggie and the ones permitted on Phase 1 are the ones I don't like.I can't eat Broccoli or cauliflower unless its finely minced into something else. Husband loves Broccoli.

I can't live on dill pickles or can I? I'm drinking my water, but I'm probably only eating 1 cups of veggies for the whole day.

Any suggestions for a Veggie Hater like me?

I eat a lot of cucumbers, celery and green peppers. I also started roasting vegetables like asparagus, zuchini slices and green beans spritzed with olive oil and seasoned with Montreal steak seasoning. I wasn't a big veggie fan, but I think you'll find that your taste buds will change....they almost have to to get and stay slender. Give it some time....

Ruth Ann
03-20-2014, 05:37 PM
Good morning!
I had my weigh in yesterday and I lost 3.5 pounds (yay) but the past 2 weeks I have also lost some lean mass.... I have not been eating anything that I should not be eating and have been 100% on the plan, except for last weekend when I had to have 2 EAS shakes when I was traveling (the airport security confiscated my shakes).

Ok, I'm "serial posting" during my lunch break! :dizzy:

murphypuppy - If you are staying on plan I would not worry about what the machine says your lean mass is because:

1) Those machines are generally inaccurate; and
2) "Lean mass" includes everything that isn't fat. So it includes water, blood, connective tissue, skin, etc., etc. As you lose weight you are going to lose some of that - doesn't mean you've actually lost muscle, just that you've lost something other than fat. Does that make sense?

Nas145
03-20-2014, 06:33 PM
Hello My IP peeps...:)

Day #4.....:yikes: what a day, Had PD Oatmeal and by 10am i felt a little weak and shaky...had lunch steamed basa fillet white fish with okra and steamed spinach....yummy almost ate the container too...lol........I Have WI tomorrow morning i am very nervous. Hope its good results.

murphypuppy
03-20-2014, 06:40 PM
Ok, I'm "serial posting" during my lunch break! :dizzy:

murphypuppy - If you are staying on plan I would not worry about what the machine says your lean mass is because:

1) Those machines are generally inaccurate; and
2) "Lean mass" includes everything that isn't fat. So it includes water, blood, connective tissue, skin, etc., etc. As you lose weight you are going to lose some of that - doesn't mean you've actually lost muscle, just that you've lost something other than fat. Does that make sense?

Thank you so much for the info! I was stressing that I was losing muscle mass :( I was told that they hope to see the lean mass stay stable after the 2nd week but that's just not the case here and I have been obsessive about staying 100% on plan! I knew that the "chicks" on this forum would have the answer!

murphypuppy
03-20-2014, 06:44 PM
Hello My IP peeps...:)

Day #4.....:yikes: what a day, Had PD Oatmeal and by 10am i felt a little weak and shaky...had lunch steamed basa fillet white fish with okra and steamed spinach....yummy almost ate the container too...lol........I Have WI tomorrow morning i am very nervous. Hope its good results.

It gets better, I promise you!! For me, the shaky, "off" feelings completely went away halfway through week two. After that it has been smooth sailing! Feel better and hope you have a fabulous weigh in!!!

TurtleMom
03-20-2014, 06:48 PM
WI #3 & I have set another 1.5 pounds free! According to this (yet ANOTHER) person's measuring tape I am down 3.5". I think I will tell them to stop measuring me for the time being as I don't always get the same person, and they all pull a little differently. I'm also going to record my own scale's reading on my WI days. I feel I will get a more accurate account of what I weigh, and I find the numbers more appealing 1st thing in the morning :goodscale:

Congratulations to all the other "losers" this week -we are rocking the scales one pound at a time!

Mulse
03-20-2014, 06:55 PM
Holy crap! That's AWESOME!! :congrat:

Were you exercising, or just following the plan? I'm so impressed, I want to do whatever you're doing!! ;)

Just following the plan right now. I am over 300lbs, though (although hopefully not next week :cb: ) so I have a significant way to go.

I'm the type that gets very discouraged by small losses in the beginning, so this is large enough to sustain me for the rest of the week.

Gah! Why did I wait so long to start?!

karkrazy13
03-20-2014, 07:07 PM
Just following the plan right now. I am over 300lbs, though (although hopefully not next week :cb: ) so I have a significant way to go.

I'm the type that gets very discouraged by small losses in the beginning, so this is large enough to sustain me for the rest of the week.

Gah! Why did I wait so long to start?!


Well, the important thing is, you DID start! :cp: And it will only get better from here! :broc:

Nas145
03-20-2014, 07:08 PM
It gets better, I promise you!! For me, the shaky, "off" feelings completely went away halfway through week two. After that it has been smooth sailing! Feel better and hope you have a fabulous weigh in!!!


Thank you Murphypuppy cant wait to get to "smooth saILING" these little discussion are really helpful....its like i am hooked on here.....:) I feel very motivated to move forward.

Thanks A MILL Guys....

vtcowgirl
03-20-2014, 07:12 PM
There is a whole section somewhere on this forum about picky veggie eaters, can't remember where I saw it but it has some great ideas. I also don't like a lot of veggies and have either roasted asparagus or zucchini spaghetti almost every night and either one of those or cucumbers every lunch.

sapphire83
03-20-2014, 07:49 PM
This diet is so filling (in a good way). I noticed a benefit of eating throughout the day and how I don't get hunger pangs. Really liking it.

ReenHag
03-20-2014, 07:57 PM
Question.....has anyone else found that they are colder than normal while doing IP? For the past few weeks I feel like I can never warm up!! I've even been wearing sweats and socks to bed -- totally out of the norm for me. I eat red meat at least 2x per week and take an iron supplement so I don't think it's anemia (energy levels are also the same). Hmm...

OMG YES! And during the worst winter ever, to boot! I used to always be so hot, but now I have lost my insulation. My nose gets soooo cold, sometimes it is almost purple! The last few nights, I was sleeping with two shirts on and two pairs of socks!

I had my very first WI this morning and am VERY excited about the 16.6lbs I lost this week!!!

With a loss like that, who wouldn't be motivated to keep going?

Congrats!

Had my weekly WI today and I'm down 2.2 pounds. I've officially gone past the 30 pounds lost mark...and HALFWAY to my ultimate goal. :carrot:

I am cold all the time, also. It especially hits me in the afternoon, so I usually drink some decaf herbal tea then to warm up. My hands are always cold though.

Happy First Day of Spring!! We made it through another winter...although it's only mid 40s here today.

Yay, spring! Congrats on your WI!

WI #3 & I have set another 1.5 pounds free! According to this (yet ANOTHER) person's measuring tape I am down 3.5". I think I will tell them to stop measuring me for the time being as I don't always get the same person, and they all pull a little differently. I'm also going to record my own scale's reading on my WI days. I feel I will get a more accurate account of what I weigh, and I find the numbers more appealing 1st thing in the morning :goodscale:

Congratulations to all the other "losers" this week -we are rocking the scales one pound at a time!

Yay! Congrats!

There is a whole section somewhere on this forum about picky veggie eaters, can't remember where I saw it but it has some great ideas. I also don't like a lot of veggies and have either roasted asparagus or zucchini spaghetti almost every night and either one of those or cucumbers every lunch.

When I started, I would often turn to cukes for my lunch veggie. It was still warm then, and they are refreshing. Well, my tastes have changed, and now I eat veggies I would never eat before. The only way to know is to experiment. Jicama, turnips, YUMMM! Mushrooms, too.

Trishlo73
03-20-2014, 08:53 PM
I blend frozen spinach into my protein shake every morning, and I can't taste the spinach at all! :) It's a good way to get 1 or even 2 cups of veggies in without tasting them! ;)

*BTW, 1/6 cup of frozen spinach = 1 cup of raw spinach, and 1/3 cup of frozen spinach = 2 cups of raw spinach... so easy to get in 2 cups if blended with a shake!! :carrot:
KarKrazy13,

That's a great idea! I never would have thought of that. Thanks :D

Fearciuil
03-20-2014, 08:53 PM
Day 17, 2nd WI, and I'm down another 6 lbs. That's 20 lbs total so far. I wasn't expecting to hit 20 today, either. :woohoo:

dcs0826
03-20-2014, 09:09 PM
Hi all. I have been reading the posts on this site for the past week and they have really solidified my decision to start IP. I have my consultation on Monday and cannot wait to get started. I will update my S/C/G once I go for my consultation. Thank you all for your postings and helpful tips! They are all so informative and motivating!:)

AmberLS
03-20-2014, 10:01 PM
WI #3 & I have set another 1.5 pounds free! According to this (yet ANOTHER) person's measuring tape I am down 3.5". I think I will tell them to stop measuring me for the time being as I don't always get the same person, and they all pull a little differently. I'm also going to record my own scale's reading on my WI days. I feel I will get a more accurate account of what I weigh, and I find the numbers more appealing 1st thing in the morning :goodscale:

Congratulations to all the other "losers" this week -we are rocking the scales one pound at a time!

I get the same measurer each time but I still get wildly different answers. Between the clothes, the difference in spot my measurement chart looks like a roller coaster and I've actually gained inches from first measurements in some instances, so I measure myself at home lol seems to be better:cool:

Deana509
03-20-2014, 10:17 PM
Ok, so I dont know if this is a TMI question or not, but has anyone had any issues with TOM being late while on IP? the first 6 months I havent missed a single one, and have been more on time then I have ever been, but I am about 2 or 3 weeks late, and there is absolutely 0% possiblity that I could be pregnant, so I just thought maybe someone else has experienced this?

MareDog37
03-20-2014, 10:40 PM
Ok, so I dont know if this is a TMI question or not, but has anyone had any issues with TOM being late while on IP? the first 6 months I havent missed a single one, and have been more on time then I have ever been, but I am about 2 or 3 weeks late, and there is absolutely 0% possiblity that I could be pregnant, so I just thought maybe someone else has experienced this?

Hi Deana,
Happened to me too, I've seen others mention it on here and my coach told me it was normal. Something about the hormones that are released as we lose weight...
Mare

MareDog37
03-20-2014, 10:42 PM
NSV tonight - saw MIL for the first time since Christmas...she couldn't believe how much weight I had lost & called me skinny. Loved it!

AmberLS
03-20-2014, 10:44 PM
Ok, so I dont know if this is a TMI question or not, but has anyone had any issues with TOM being late while on IP? the first 6 months I havent missed a single one, and have been more on time then I have ever been, but I am about 2 or 3 weeks late, and there is absolutely 0% possiblity that I could be pregnant, so I just thought maybe someone else has experienced this?

My coach said that the diet can totally mess with TOM, I wish it was making mine late, I have had one every 2 weeks, I was on but finishing up when I started the diet and two weeks later (actually 10 days) I started again, had it for 4 days, and then started again and had it for 7 days, its almost been two weeks so I expect to start again lol, which is very unusual for me :)

stephascope
03-20-2014, 11:08 PM
Question.....has anyone else found that they are colder than normal while doing IP? For the past few weeks I feel like I can never warm up!! I've even been wearing sweats and socks to bed -- totally out of the norm for me. I eat red meat at least 2x per week and take an iron supplement so I don't think it's anemia (energy levels are also the same). Hmm...

Oh yeah! My boss likes to keep it cool at work and I freeze my butt off! I actually get a bluey/purplish tinge to my lips some days. It's brutal!