Weight Loss Support - Trying different "diets"




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sparkleNshine
03-05-2014, 07:22 AM
Okay, I hate the word "diet," but wasn't sure how best to explain it. I've been calorie counting for two months now and have lost 24 pounds doing so. Now I'm considering other weight loss approaches like Whole30 or paleo. My question is--can it be helpful or hurtful to try different approaches? If I did Whole30, I would only do it for 30 days as the program states, and then go back to calorie counting. Does that help my metabolism and aid in losing weight in the long term? Or should I just stick to what I know is working for now? I know people switch things up when they plateau, but I haven't done that yet. I was just interested in Whole30, and curious to know how much I would lose with that program. Good idea or no? :)


seagirl
03-05-2014, 07:59 AM
maybe eat the foods on those programs but within your calorie limits? You could always try it for a week and see what happens.

Munchy
03-05-2014, 10:33 AM
maybe eat the foods on those programs but within your calorie limits? You could always try it for a week and see what happens.

Agreed! We try to stick to whole foods because of health (although I do like cheese!) but I have a calorie range that I aim for. You can do both at the same time :)


mars735
03-05-2014, 11:13 AM
Okay, I hate the word "diet," but wasn't sure how best to explain it. I've been calorie counting for two months now and have lost 24 pounds doing so. Now I'm considering other weight loss approaches like Whole30 or paleo. My question is--can it be helpful or hurtful to try different approaches? If I did Whole30, I would only do it for 30 days as the program states, and then go back to calorie counting. Does that help my metabolism and aid in losing weight in the long term? Or should I just stick to what I know is working for now? I know people switch things up when they plateau, but I haven't done that yet. I was just interested in Whole30, and curious to know how much I would lose with that program. Good idea or no? :)

Switching things up is a great idea. If it doesn't work out, you can go right back to the known, with greater motivation. It keeps things interesting, too. Congratulations on your success!

Locke
03-05-2014, 11:26 AM
I've tried many different diets, including whole foods vegan and paleo because they are touted as non-calorie counting plans. The bottom line from my experience and others is that you will *probably* lose weight when you are excluding certain types of foods. The problem is that you will not lose weight as fast as when you are calorie counting. If you are interested in these diets for your health I say go for it. You may also find a diet like paleo that makes you feel fuller and makes it easier for you to hit your calorie goal; but if your ultimate goal is to lose weight quickly then you need to stick with calorie counting.

GlamourGirl827
03-05-2014, 11:33 AM
Trying new "diets" might help you find something you can maintain forever...yep forever lol...I've done a lot of different diets. Weight watchers, calorie counting, atkins, I was vegetarian then vegan in the name of weightloss, deal a meal, yup deal a meal lol...slim fast, my own version of slimfast where I drank a protein shake for breakfast and dinner, starving myself (so unhealthy)...oh god there's probably more I'm forgetting...

Now for me, the only diet I had done in the past that I was able to maintain was whole foods, with a pinch of paleo-like eating PLUS no sugar. 90% of the time I eat meats and veggies, go easy on the dairy (like one serving a day) and easy on the fruit, maybe 3-4 servings a week. And *very* easy on the grains, like 1-2 serving a week. But I have to watch because grains & fruit give me cravings. But everything is whole food, nothing processed in the house that I will eat. Oh and no beans/legumes for the most part, and 1-2 servings of nuts a week.

Now 10% of the time, like parties, or if we go out to eat, I still try to avoid sugar because it really sets off bad cravings for me, but I'll have toast, fruit, whatever.

This works for me long term. I've done it before and its the only "diet" I don't feel like I need to binge on, probably because I am typically avoiding trigger foods.

Anyway do you think you can count calories forever? If not then maybe you should experiment with various diets, until you find the one that you could maintain almost effortlessly 80-90% of the time. I say effortlessly, because in my experience, if your diet requires too much effort and energy, then as soon as your life goes through a rough patch, gets busy, or stress increases, or something unforeseen happens, its easy to "take a break" from dieting...And I cant tell you how many times I've seen posted on this board (and I've done myself) people saying the regained because XYZ happened in their life. As soon as it got hard they let go of the stress dieting causes.

I'm not saying you have to do what I'm doing. Everyone is different. But this works for me. Hopefully you can find what works for you :)

pixelllate
03-05-2014, 11:36 AM
I've been on all sorts of diets and its always been calorie in calorie out for me - the only difference is that some foods are more filling and therefore, made losing weight easier, so Paleo or Whole30 would have the same effect on me as long as I watch my intake.

As far as DIETS go, I'm an unabashed dieter. Some people immediately go into Lifestyle changes, but I go from a specific phase of dieting to maintenance. What is important for me is just knowing that my method of dieting is tolerable enough to go back to if the weight starts creeping back up. I really don't find either way better or worse, it just depends on the individual.
I can go through stressful situations and still maintain, except in extremely stressful ones that I would have honestly binged on (and have binged on) using the lifestyle method - just so bad that even now looking back, I would never have gotten through. But reasonably bad situations -ranking like 7-8/10 in difficulty? I never had issues with gaining on that even though I lost weight due to a regular ol' diet.
It sounds to me like either method you choose is fine as long as its whatever will reduce your caloric intake enough to eventually reach goal in the time frame that you desire (long, short, somewhre in between) and also makes it easy to transition into keeping that loss- whether its diet then maintenance or lifestyle changes.

JohnP
03-05-2014, 11:38 AM
Trying new "diets" might help you find something you can maintain forever...

Agreed

GlamourGirl827
03-05-2014, 12:30 PM
The problem is that you will not lose weight as fast as when you are calorie counting.

This is not always true. I have lost weight faster on lower carb diets than diets that included everything but within calorie limits. While you cannot consume 3000 calories of low carb whole food and expend 1500 and expect to lose weight, the jury has come back that it is not just calories in calories out. All calories are not created equal. It really is about what you are eating, not just how much. I hate to drop info and not reference, so I’ll try to come back and post links, but studies have shown (namely on diabetics, the ones I’m thinking of) that low carb diets that were not calorie controlled produced better weight loss and blood glucose control than the participants that followed calorie restricted diets but were not low carb.

Basically the point I’m making is, yes there comes a point when no matter what diet you follow you will have to be mindful of your calories, you cannot gorge yourself, but calorie counting alone is not necessarily the fastest way.

GlamourGirl827
03-05-2014, 12:35 PM
ok so this is not a study, its an article...I'm not a fan of providing info through an article. And the study oh so briefly talked about does say that low carb had some unwanted side effects as well. This is more about low carb vs low fat vs low GI...anyway you can google it yourself. I have access to studies via the database for my school but I don't think I'm supposed to be copying and pasting those on message boards...

http://healthland.time.com/2012/06/27/calorie-vs-calorie-study-evaluates-three-diets-for-staying-slim/

diamondgeog
03-05-2014, 02:24 PM
Tweaking is great. I think that is a natural part of anyone's journey, especially successful journeys.

I started out targeting fast food, bread, and pasta because they were making me the hungriest. Low-hanging fruit so to speak. I didn't intend to go wheat free and certainly never grain-free but it evolved over time.

I didn't use coconut oil which is now a big part of my daily routine until January of this year.

For me it hasn't been a diet, but lifestyle changes, and I haven't calorie counted once. Calorie counting would, for me, be a disaster. No way I could do it. But my appetite has come down further than I believed. I am doing more 'primal' than 'paleo' as I have dairy.

But yes the appetite reduction has been very real and very awesome.

GlamourGirl827
03-05-2014, 03:21 PM
Tweaking is great. I think that is a natural part of anyone's journey, especially successful journeys.

I started out targeting fast food, bread, and pasta because they were making me the hungriest. Low-hanging fruit so to speak. I didn't intend to go wheat free and certainly never grain-free but it evolved over time.

I didn't use coconut oil which is now a big part of my daily routine until January of this year.

For me it hasn't been a diet, but lifestyle changes, and I haven't calorie counted once. Calorie counting would, for me, be a disaster. No way I could do it. But my appetite has come down further than I believed. I am doing more 'primal' than 'paleo' as I have dairy.

But yes the appetite reduction has been very real and very awesome.

We sound similar. I have done calorie counting in the past and yes, for me it is a disaster too, for various reasons.
I guess what I am doing is like primal, like you said. I didn't realize there was a difference between paleo and primal, but I have dairy too. Its not that I found this diet and set out to follow it. It was more, as you said, evolved from me making adjustment that help me avoiding craving, over eating and what controls my appetite the best.

nelie
03-05-2014, 03:59 PM
Basically the point Iím making is, yes there comes a point when no matter what diet you follow you will have to be mindful of your calories, you cannot gorge yourself, but calorie counting alone is not necessarily the fastest way.

Yup, I agree. I don't do low carb, not even close but I'm currently following my hunger levels and not counting calories. The weight is falling fast, faster than I expected and it is just because I focus on foods I like, foods that fill me up and that I find nourishing. And I mix in a good amount if daily activity in as well which never hurts.

And I definitely agree with tweaking until you find what works for you.

hhm6
03-05-2014, 04:06 PM
I love trying new things! I lost my first 25 lbs off Dukan, then got bored, now I'm doing something like paleo/calorie counting.

I have to say though, I never get to eat 1400 calories when I'm eating clean, it's too much food. But I have been losing and I don't feel hungry. I got so bored of Dukan foods, that I was actively trying to cheat and started gaining.

So yes! I'm all for experimenting!:)

Locke
03-05-2014, 04:15 PM
This is not always true. I have lost weight faster on lower carb diets than diets that included everything but within calorie limits. While you cannot consume 3000 calories of low carb whole food and expend 1500 and expect to lose weight, the jury has come back that it is not just calories in calories out. All calories are not created equal. It really is about what you are eating, not just how much. I hate to drop info and not reference, so Iíll try to come back and post links, but studies have shown (namely on diabetics, the ones Iím thinking of) that low carb diets that were not calorie controlled produced better weight loss and blood glucose control than the participants that followed calorie restricted diets but were not low carb.

Basically the point Iím making is, yes there comes a point when no matter what diet you follow you will have to be mindful of your calories, you cannot gorge yourself, but calorie counting alone is not necessarily the fastest way.

I wasn't trying to claim that calories in / out are the only factor for weight loss or nutrition. My comment was on methodology. Even if you are eating strictly low carb ad libitum it is quite possible to consume more calories than you wish to.

Calories are simply of measure of energy. I am eating a whole foods vegan diet for health and weight loss- and counting calories, too. Many people who eat my way feel like they don't need to count calories- that's fine, but it's those same people who hit plateaus and wonder why they can't lose anymore weight. It's also very easy to underestimate the food you are consuming if you aren't weighing and measuring.

The study you provided was conducted by feeding measured amounts of food to people in a hospital outpatient setting, therefore it was calorie controlled. The implications for human metabolism are interesting, but it doesn't provide an adequate basis for choosing a diet. That low carb produces short term weight loss for many people is indisputable in the literature- the long term effects are what concern me.

GlamourGirl827
03-05-2014, 05:37 PM
I wasn't trying to claim that calories in / out are the only factor for weight loss or nutrition. My comment was on methodology. Even if you are eating strictly low carb ad libitum it is quite possible to consume more calories than you wish to.

Calories are simply of measure of energy. I am eating a whole foods vegan diet for health and weight loss- and counting calories, too. Many people who eat my way feel like they don't need to count calories- that's fine, but it's those same people who hit plateaus and wonder why they can't lose anymore weight. It's also very easy to underestimate the food you are consuming if you aren't weighing and measuring.

The study you provided was conducted by feeding measured amounts of food to people in a hospital outpatient setting, therefore it was calorie controlled. The implications for human metabolism are interesting, but it doesn't provide an adequate basis for choosing a diet. That low carb produces short term weight loss for many people is indisputable in the literature- the long term effects are what concern me.

1. The article was not about non-calorie control vs calorie control. I already said that. It was more to show that where your calories come from matters.

2. Low carb will produce long term weight loss as well. I have not seen any literature showing that those follow low carb stop losing weight or see it slow dramatically, unless they go back to a heavy carb diet. But that's with any diet, you go off it, it stops working. Likewise, calorie counting will produce short term weight loss...

3. After many years of reading, learning, and work, along with much of the new studies that are starting to show that the real culprit is not saturated fat, but rather carbs and sugar, I would say that my greater concern is the long term effects of those things in our diets. Now I'm not saying that whole grains like oatmeal are going to kill you. But our bodies evolved on a diet without several foods. Including grains and dairy. I am not a history buff, but these started to come about with farming and agriculture. I did the vegan thing about 10 years ago, but I was misinformed and I believe now that vegan is a very unhealthy diet. I believe it does lack much of what our bodies evolved to use as fuel.

4. I do agree that it is possible for people to adopt a "diet" and then over eat. Actually a friend of mine is vegan and very over weight. She's probably a size 16. And as she struggles to lose and talks talks talks about how she's going to get thin, my weight is just coming off. I was bigger than her after my last baby, and now I'm smaller. She eats uncontrolled thinking that because she's vegan, she's eating healthy. But she still eats a lot of processed, sugar filled stuff, fried foods, and she's simply over eating. I don't offer her advice because she hasn't asked. But I do feel if she went to whole foods, it would help a lot.

You are vegan. I don't know how long, but I can tell you as someone who was vegan you are not getting the experience that a paleo/primal gets with not counting calories. When I was vegan I filled up, but without that animal protein, I was not getting the satiety I needed to carry me meal to meal, so I had to be careful about what I ate too. The ability to over eat is greatly diminished with the paleo/primal type diet, which is why it is kind of touted is not having to count cals. KWIM?

Jenny222
03-05-2014, 09:23 PM
What's the best diet you have been on?

Locke
03-06-2014, 11:26 AM
@Glamourgirl

The diet I'm eating now is made of whole plant foods without added oil, sugar, or grains. Mostly potatoes, beans, vegetables, and a few nuts and seeds. The food is some of the least calorie dense out there- your stomach will fill up long before you can get more than 600 calories into it. I agree that vegan isn't necessarily healthy- one can eat only oreos and still technically be vegan. I'm still going to be tinkering around with my diet, especially since I want to preserve lean mass. Might go ketogenic for a while. We'll see. I'll continue to count calories because as long as I stay under a certain calorie goal I'll lose no matter what sorts of food I eat.

SouthernMaven
03-06-2014, 11:47 AM
What's the best diet you have been on?

Jenny - over the years I've been on several different diets, and I lost weight on all of them.

Trouble is, eventually I gained it all back - and then some - because none of those diets addressed the issues I had with food. That is, eating for reasons other than hunger.

Here's a list of all the "diets" which resulted in weight loss for me:

1. Calorie counting (age 18) - lost about 25 lbs.

2. The Woman Doctor's Diet for Women (age 24) - lost 25 lbs. Again.
(I ran across this book the other day when I was cleaning up my office. It really is a very effective diet, although terribly austere. I don't know if you can even get the book any more. The author is Barbara Edelstein, M.D.)

3. Pregnancy & motherhood (age 28-48) - not a diet, but unabated morning sickness resulted in my losing weight during early pregnancy with first child. Subsequently I had a small net gain during that pregnancy, maintained my lower weight, had another child with only a 20 lb pregnancy weight gain, was even thinner after second child was born, and maintained that weight until menopause started kicking in. Never gave a second thought to what I was eating during that time. Thought my metabolism had changed completely.

4. Jenny Craig (age 54) - yep, lost 20 lbs with this one too. How ridiculous to think I'd maintain that loss when having to go back to eating food that wasn't out of a box???

5. Calorie counting (age 58) - lost 30 lbs. Eventually gained it all back due to restriction.

Now I'm 62 and I have sworn off dieting for the rest of my life. I eat just the way I ate in that 28-48 year age range. I eat when I'm hungry and stop when I'm not hungry any more.

diamondgeog
03-06-2014, 02:11 PM
We sound similar. I have done calorie counting in the past and yes, for me it is a disaster too, for various reasons.
I guess what I am doing is like primal, like you said. I didn't realize there was a difference between paleo and primal, but I have dairy too. Its not that I found this diet and set out to follow it. It was more, as you said, evolved from me making adjustment that help me avoiding craving, over eating and what controls my appetite the best.

I didn't set out to be 'paleo' or 'primal' or 'Atkins', but at the start try to start eating as many whole foods as possible. I read Mark Bittman a lot and for decades he has been saying whole foods whole foods whole foods. If your great grandparents wouldn't recognize it as food, it probably isn't.

But I also wanted to eliminate breads and pasta because my belly was huge and diabetes runs in my family. I was and am insulin sensitive. Then I just kind of tweaked away.

So I did come across Paleo sites during the journey and I didn't find the no dairy convincing at all and dairy agrees with me. But a whole foods approach is working for me and Primal gives up grains but has dairy so I guess if you had to put me in a 'diet' that is what I would be closest to.

Mrs Snark
03-06-2014, 03:02 PM
I did the vegan thing about 10 years ago, but I was misinformed and I believe now that vegan is a very unhealthy diet. I believe it does lack much of what our bodies evolved to use as fuel.

I would disagree with you that a vegan diet is by definition an "unhealthy" diet. It certainly can be unhealthy, just as a low carb diet can be unhealthy, just as any diet plan can be unhealthy if it is implemented in an unhealthy way.

That's just my opinion. :)

JohnP
03-06-2014, 04:01 PM
I would disagree with you that a vegan diet is by definition an "unhealthy" diet. It certainly can be unhealthy, just as a low carb diet can be unhealthy, just as any diet plan can be unhealthy if it is implemented in an unhealthy way.

That's just my opinion. :)

I applaud you for your moderate viewpoint and I completely agree.

Sadly moderate viewpoints don't generate book sales or web traffic.

nelie
03-06-2014, 04:56 PM
I would disagree with you that a vegan diet is by definition an "unhealthy" diet. It certainly can be unhealthy, just as a low carb diet can be unhealthy, just as any diet plan can be unhealthy if it is implemented in an unhealthy way.

That's just my opinion. :)

I agree, as someone who has been vegan for over 6 years. I think there are those within following a vegan diet who have done it unhealthfully or questionably. I try not to judge anyone by any diet they follow, I think it really is up to the individual to find what works best for them.

Radiojane
03-06-2014, 05:12 PM
I have pulled different approaches from paleo/primal, Atkins, IF, calorie counting, volumetrics... the list goes on.

With very few exceptions, I find that I pick up at least one helpful habit/tip out of most healthy, moderate ways of eating. Think of this as a journey. Learn what your body feels best on, and build on it from there.