Exercise! - Lifting/Toning and looking manly




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sparklesgirl007
02-01-2014, 05:36 AM
Hey y'all!

So I have a few questions, I know this topic has been discussed forever, but I just can't get a grasp on why people keep saying women who lift won't become manly looking.

I saw a girl at the gym the other day, she has made AMAZING progress, I mean 100+ loss, no loose skin (that i can see at least) but thing is when she was overweight, she has a very hourglass like figure, as she lost it was more and more prominent. Personally, as a girl, that's how I would want to keep my figure, and now she has started toning up and her waist is almost the same width as her legs and her shoulders are a bit more pronounced. Not that she looks like a man, but her hourglass figure is gone.

Now my question is, people like Jillian Michaels don't really have a hourglass figure either, don't get me wrong, they are in amazing shape, but how do people weight train without looking square??

I came across these photos and they all look more "bulked" up to me (I hope I'm not being offensive-I know they've gone through tremendous work to look this way)

http://myweightlossrx.com/proof-that-lifting-weights-will-not-make-women-bulky/

the lady in the "what really happens" right picture, also looks bulky to me

http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-sX-bHZOsTfE/UWwklI0U6uI/AAAAAAAADro/ML6CKXIAnp0/s1600/Lifting%2BWeights%2B-%2BWhat%2BWomen%2BThink%2BHappen,%2BWhat%2BReally% 2BHappens.jpg

Same here
http://ninja-fitness.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/07/before-after.png

Then I see people like Jen Selter, (more of what I wish I could attain) have an hourglass figure while working it out, is it genetic?? Ah I'm just confused, I feel like all the women who work out and have toned arms immediately look more square than the bottom half. I really don't want that, but I want to be healthy too! I feel like all the girls who do squats also shrink their hips a bit (which I know is healthy) but also results in a smaller waist.

I guess I just want to lose weight, without losing my shape, if that is possible. Sorry I hope that makes sense! Also I don't mean to offend anyone who works out this way or anything like that! Thanks


IanG
02-01-2014, 08:33 AM
I am a guy so this probably won't count. But I am also a guy that went from seeing his weight decline with exercise and weight training to seeing it now gain! So I think I am starting to bulk.

My responses to you are this.

First, and foremost, I would not worry. It does take a long time to build a lot of muscle and in the interim you will tone up nicely. You will also be burning more calories that should help with fat loss.

Secondly, a huge part of this depends on what you do with your diet. If you are on a calorie constrained diet with average protein, you are not going to bulk up. I only started to see significant gains in muscle (and the weights I can lift) when I started to up my calories a bit (I am still under maintenance) and push my protein very high. I now track my protein, fat, calorie and carb intake every day like bodybuilders do.

Thirdly, it depends what exercise you do. Cardio will not make you bulk up. Strength training can but to do this you need to do it often and keep pushing with heavier weights. If you stick to lighter weights with more repetitions on each exercise, you will not bulk just tone. You really need to be lifting the heavy stuff to bulk up, increasing the weight.

Anyway, just my 2 cents based on my experience. I think it very unlikely you will bulk up if you exercise the way you plan to. You need to plan to bulk up. It does not happen by accident.

nelie
02-01-2014, 08:34 AM
So I think the best explanation I've heard is that many women think that lifting a weight will turn you into a bulky woman, that is like thinking that if you start running, you will turn into Carl Lewis (or pick any legendary runner).

The bulky look is a mix of 3 things, lifting heavy weights for years and a low body fat percentage plus... genetics (very few women can achieve a true bulky look but with a low body fat percentage, their muscles can show)

The first photos you show is obviously of someone who is into body building and has a low body fat percentage, as well as has tanned to let her muscles 'pop' for a competition.

The second photos are from women who have both a low body fat percentage as well as have probably worked out for many years.

So here is the thing... muscle is hard to obtain, easy to lose. Fat is easy to obtain, hard to lose. When you lose weight, you also lose muscle but weight training will help prevent that. If you want to keep your shape, then lose weight, I'd recommend weight training as well. You can gauge where you are at various points and back off on exercises if when you get to a low body fat percentage you aren't happy. I wouldn't worry about it until then.


vealcalf2000
02-01-2014, 09:31 AM
LOL I second everything that's been said! Women especially have a hard time really bulking up. Genetically speaking our bodies are just not meant to be muscular with so little body fat. It requires an extraordinary amount of weight training and a very rigid diet. Even if I wanted to look bulky I would never devote that much time to the gym. I always focus on the lifestyle aspect of eating right and exercise. LOL I don't want to spend more time at the gym, I want to spend a productive yet reasonable amount of time there!

Wannabeskinny
02-01-2014, 09:44 AM
Well, kudos on the woman who lost 100lbs at your gym. Believe it or not she's probably pretty happy with herself and isn't looking for affirmation from you on whether or not she looks good. Everyone's perception of beauty is their own.

I think women worry far too much about this sort of thing. In my opinion, you cross that bridge when you get to it. It's like worrying about your college application when you're in 5th grade, focus right now and prepare for that step but no need to lose sleep over that now.

If this is something that's really got you worried then you should find out what your natural body shape is. Here is a starting point for you http://youlookfab.com/2006/04/18/the-body-type-%E2%80%9Cbalancing-act%E2%80%9D/

My dominant shape is hour-glass with a bit of pear shape. No matter how much weight I lose, my waist will always be small, but my hips will always be curvy. Because that's my true shape.

Some women are apple shapes, if you're an apple shape your legs will always be thin and your waist will always be a problem area. If you're an inverted triangle your shoulders and back can bulk up pretty quickly and your hips will never put on an ounce. Body shape is very important to understand.

Cameron Diaz for example, if she were to gain weight she'd gain it all on her upper body, her legs would be skinny and her waist is about the same size of her hips anyway, because she's a rectangle shape.

So if the lady at the top of your post who lost 100lbs doesn't look the way you think she should, think again. Perhaps her true body shape has been revealed. And that's ok too, there is no such thing as the wrong body shape. Besides, you never have to get that thin if you don't want to, but no need to criticize if someone else does.

nads84
02-01-2014, 12:36 PM
what wannabeskinny said. ....seriously not something to be worried about. And IF and when you get there, your opinion/ideas might be completely changed. i've been lifting, running, cycling, walking, and practicing hot-yoga regularly for going on 4 years (train at least 6hrs/week in the winter) now and look athletic and have quite a bit of muscle definition, but am also still VERY curvy, especially in the hips and butt. Will I ever look like the figure-competition girls? no. Do I want to look like them? no. Even if I did, the amount of additional work that I would have to do over and above what I'm already doing would be A LOT.

I'm heavier than some girls my height, but a lot leaner than them as lift in addition to cardio. i love being strong in addition to being able to run for what seems like forever!

sparklesgirl007
02-01-2014, 03:37 PM
Oh gosh, I wasn't trying to offend the girl at my gym, I think she looks that way because she wants to, she's always at the gym, and plus she's healthier now than she has ever been. I would never say anything about her looks as I know how hard she has worked to get to her goal, and honestly I would rather look like her now than I do now, she's in great shape!

I've seen her for probably the last 7 years I've been at the gym, she started off with weight watchers, and after 2-3 years She gained a lot of weight and has been working it off at the gym ever since. I've seen her before she was chubby, overweight, and now I would have to say fit. When she wasn't fat she had an hourglass shape so I though after weightloss/toning up she would keep it, that's why I was wondering.

I was just trying to see if there a middle ground from being skinny fat and too toned, if that makes sense.

So if you keep using a 15 lb kettle bell and do exercises, does that increase muscle mass? I was told by the personal trainer at my gym that I need to increase my weights in order to increase muscle. I clearly know nothing about muscle/weight lifting. I swear the PT's at my gym are trying shove protein shakes down my throat more than anything, but is there another resource that is a credible? I keep reading articles, the comments start bashing the author about what he's written. :(

Defining
02-01-2014, 05:32 PM
Hi sparklesgirl007; if I'm understanding you correctly, you're concerned about losing your shape if you start to weight train. More specifically, you're worried about losing your waist?

Several other posters have already made some great points, about respecting your body type and the time/effort/specificity needed to really put on obvious muscle. The short answer to your question is; women have a lower 'genetic ceiling' in terms of muscle development. Effectively, our hormones/genes will let us put on a certain amount of musculature, and then stop (waaaaay sooner than men). And while womens' lower body muscle can/will grow at the same rate as mens' given similar training parameters, IN GENERAL it takes more work for women to really bulk up naturally. In short, unless you're taking steroids and aiming at low body fat (ie. 15% or lower for women), you're not likely to start looking like a dude.

There are, however, some exercises that will develop your obliques/abdominal muscles to point of increasing your waist circumference. Sometimes this is a natural byproduct of just becoming a bit stronger, but many women also have a habit of overworking their 'core' with the idea that they can 'spot reduce' belly fat. Here are a few links about specifically developing a workout routine for women in order to add curves, not take them away (sorry for the scantily clad photos, this time at least the authors are trying to prove a point :D):

http://www.t-nation.com/readArticle.do?id=1305014

http://bretcontreras.com/how-to-attain-a-slender-look-like-jessica-alba-zoe-saldana/

In specific to wanting to look like 'Jen Selter' (had to google that, had no idea who you were talking about ;)), I'd actually suggest you START resistance training. Unless you are naturally inclined to store your fat in your backside, it's not likely you'll hit that shape exactly. But if you work to GROW your glute muscles (which, in this case, is desirable) then at least you can add some shape to the whole thing. Hip thrusts/glute bridges/kettlebell swings are a few fun exercises to start with, I find. But I will echo our fellow forum posters here; accept that some of it is genetics, and you may/may not have the same body shape when you lose a bit of fat.

The trainers might be pushing you to buy protein shakes for the commission, or because they're genuinely trying to help you; I have no idea. But eating/drinking a bit of protein/carbs after a workout makes a big difference in recovery - which is important, because it means you stay healthy and can workout more often, thus losing fat faster!

If you're curious about building muscle, there's another thread in the weight lifting forum titled 'Muscle Questions' where a few of us are chatting about it.

I'd recommend as least giving weight lifting a try; see if it's something you enjoy. Then if you start to put on too much muscle, you can reevaluate. ;) But keep asking questions, doing research, and figure out what works for YOU!. And have fun. 'Cause that's important. :hug:

Chardonnay
02-01-2014, 06:28 PM
Women who exercise, lift heavy weights and eat to look big, look bulky. She's as strong as an ox (I wouldn't discount steroid or growth hormones in extreme cases though):

http://www.jamesloganmd.com/hellga_0258.jpg

Women who exercise, lift heavy weights and eat to look lean and muscular, look lean and muscular:

http://images.starpulse.com/Photos/Previews/American-Gladiators-tv-09.jpg

NORMAL women who exercise, lift weights and eat to look lean and healthy, look lean and healthy with great shape:

http://blog.olgassecret.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/04/group-of-women-exercising-300x166.jpg

No woman should believe the "bulking up" myth or fear looking like Arnold unless they are specifically designing their diets and lifestyles to look that way. I was a gym rat from age 19 through to my late 20's and I never bulked up or looked as ripped as some of those hardcore weight lifting women.

My 2 cents :)

Edited to add: How we shape up also depends on our bodies, genes, eating habits etc...two women who do the same workout can look completely different after the same amount of exercise.

ReillyJ
02-01-2014, 09:23 PM
Women who exercise, lift heavy weights and eat to look big, look bulky. She's as strong as an ox (I wouldn't discount steroid or growth hormones in extreme cases though):

http://www.jamesloganmd.com/hellga_0258.jpg

Women who exercise, lift heavy weights and eat to look lean and muscular, look lean and muscular:

http://images.starpulse.com/Photos/Previews/American-Gladiators-tv-09.jpg

NORMAL women who exercise, lift weights and eat to look lean and healthy, look lean and healthy with great shape:

http://blog.olgassecret.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/04/group-of-women-exercising-300x166.jpg

No woman should believe the "bulking up" myth or fear looking like Arnold unless they are specifically designing their diets and lifestyles to look that way. I was a gym rat from age 19 through to my late 20's and I never bulked up or looked as ripped as some of those hardcore weight lifting women.

My 2 cents :)

Edited to add: How we shape up also depends on our bodies, genes, eating habits etc...two women who do the same workout can look completely different after the same amount of exercise.


This exactly. Just don't get your body fat percentage too low and you'll be fine... IF...the hourglass is YOUR predominant shape. If it is not, there's nothing you can do about it but i do understand your question and it is something that comes up in the middle of your journey of losing weight and getting in shape--i had those same fears and i ended up with a body that parts i do love and parts i don't...the same as everyone else. If you want to retain a more "feminine" shape (ie softer) then just don't cut up but i wouldn't sweat the strength training part at all unless you're one of those women who put on muscle easily. :)

nads84
02-02-2014, 11:55 AM
....to end up looking like a figure model (Jen Selter) or a body builder you have to keep in mind that those girls work EXTREMELY hard to achieve their look. We're talking countless hours of training, SUPER clean diets and depending on where they are in their training cycle, they're probably pretty darn rigid too (egg-whites, sweet potato, oatmeal, chicken breast, broccoli, whey, rinse, repeat).

I'd be willing to bet that unless you're actively working to achieve one of these "looks" (figure/builder) one wouldn't just 'accidentally' end up looking this way because they go to the gym 3 or 4 times a week to get a decent work out in. A well rounded, functional fitness regime includes a combination of strength, flexibility, and endurance.

Diamondonalandmine
02-03-2014, 03:33 AM
If you think judging other women's shapes for working out is acceptable then you can't complain when women look at you and list of the reasons you are unattractive!!

If you don't like like sculpted arms then take it easy on that section.
If you don't like a firm body, then stick to cardio!

Wannabeskinny
02-03-2014, 08:53 AM
If you think judging other women's shapes for working out is acceptable then you can't complain when women look at you and list of the reasons you are unattractive!!



This is true on such a psychological level, women are incredibly harsh on other women. Even the most powerful women on earth, as soon as they appear on television the first thing we do is scrutinize their appearance. It's true that if we start being kinder to each other and to ourselves that we will eventually become happier with ourselves and our appearance. Does it really matter what Hilary Clinton's hair looks like, after all hasn't she accomplished some things that override her appearance?

katerina11
02-03-2014, 04:20 PM
it's genetics. i have a friend who can deadlift 400 pounds at a weight of around 130, and she has an hourglass shape.

you store bodyfat in individual ways. you don't really have a choice in the matter. there are some exercises that thicken the waist, but really? you only have to worry about that being an issue after a few years of dedicated weight training.

katerina11
02-03-2014, 04:24 PM
This is true on such a psychological level, women are incredibly harsh on other women. Even the most powerful women on earth, as soon as they appear on television the first thing we do is scrutinize their appearance. It's true that if we start being kinder to each other and to ourselves that we will eventually become happier with ourselves and our appearance. Does it really matter what Hilary Clinton's hair looks like, after all hasn't she accomplished some things that override her appearance?

:carrot::carrot::carrot::carrot::carrot:

so much this.

and personally, i couldn't care less what i end up looking like. my body will do what it does. i just want to FEEL better. but... i am in my mid 40's, married, and past the whole display for courtship thing. it's a very natural thing to care about one's particular shape, so i am not sassing this thread, but i am very thankful i am over it, at the same time.

IanG
02-03-2014, 04:28 PM
I have never had a nice body so trying to uncover one is completely fascinating for me and I am enjoying the ride, despite being 39, married and with kids. That being said, you do store body fat in individual ways as another poster said and I am most amused about finding where this is on me. Belly and legs. Just like grandma! At 281lbs it was all over. Now I am stuck with the stubborn stuff!

katerina11
02-03-2014, 05:07 PM
I have never had a nice body so trying to uncover one is completely fascinating for me and I am enjoying the ride, despite being 39, married and with kids. That being said, you do store body fat in individual ways as another poster said and I am most amused about finding where this is on me. Belly and legs. Just like grandma! At 281lbs it was all over. Now I am stuck with the stubborn stuff!


It sounds like you are happy with whatever your body is turning out to be while stripping the fat. which is exactly how it should be. what messed me up in my younger years was wanting to be something other than what was genetically destined for me. that is the thrust of my earlier post stating that IDGAF anymore what happens, because i will be satisfied with how it turns out, as long as i am fit and happy. i won't fight my body shape anymore, and be sad bc i don't look like X model.

pixelllate
02-04-2014, 03:09 PM
Hey OP, some women in my experience can bulk pretty easily and others cannot. I'm sure that statistically, the "bulk easily" crowd is a minority, but what if we fall under that minority? Doesn't change the fact that we have a higher chance of ending up where we might not want to be! So I totally get you. Personally, I can't bulk really - I'm just not built for it, but my sister has the body type to do so. I think that this article might be helpful for you - its by the "glutes" guy and he discusses a body type that I would like to have - (and he gives some suggestions in case you are the bulk type, and how to keep from getting that look - if you don't want it)

http://bretcontreras.com/how-to-attain-a-slender-look-like-jessica-alba-zoe-saldana/

Mad Donnelly
02-04-2014, 06:07 PM
My niece always has people asking her where she works out at. She doesn't. I have no idea where she gets it from but I didn't get that gene. I have a feeling if she did work out, she'd be one of those that would bulk up pretty quickly. Honestly, I wish I would. No, I don't want to look "manly" either, but I'd rather that I saw quick results when I start putting in the work.

TooWicky
02-04-2014, 11:44 PM
I've always admired hourglass figures, but have never had and will never have one. Concurrently, I've always been envious of pear-shapes as well, because, to me anyway, it's a very feminine shape.

I wasn't always morbidly obese. Up through young adulthood, I was a serious athlete for years. Because of that, I already know what my physique looks like when I'm in great shape and lifting weights. I describe myself as an apple shape, and that's true, but erm compounding that is very broad shoulders, a broad back, and just a natural tendency to have muscular arms, etc. When you combine that with being slim-hipped and small-bootied, well, it's a manly sort of shape frankly. There is no way I could train in a way to overcome what nature has given me - maybe minimize it slightly, but that's about it. Those of us on the more extreme end of a body shape spectrum are just kind of stuck with it. I know it gets noticed (as you noticed the gal at the gym whose weight loss is revealing her true shape,) but there is not much I can do about it.

I also spent some time much thinner, leaner and also in good physical condition about (thinking...) 17 years ago (I'm in my late 40s now.) At the time I worked in an auto plant and also ran on the treadmill every couple of days. I used to get asked on a regular basis if I were a female bodybuilder >< I wasn't even lifting weights or anything other than physical labor at work! Even so, I aspire to get back to that physical condition. I felt really great then. Being healthy and fit is the main motivator for me, at my age. I rock what I got regardless. Since I will never be conventionally aesthetically pleasing, it's not something even on my radar.

I can't wait to start lifting weights and incorporating exercise. I'm starting for the first time this week, so excited! If someone ever asks me again if I am bodybuilding, I will be ecstatic, lol.

Wannabeskinny
02-05-2014, 09:49 AM
I've always admired hourglass figures, but have never had and will never have one. Concurrently, I've always been envious of pear-shapes as well, because, to me anyway, it's a very feminine shape.

I wasn't always morbidly obese. Up through young adulthood, I was a serious athlete for years. Because of that, I already know what my physique looks like when I'm in great shape and lifting weights. I describe myself as an apple shape, and that's true, but erm compounding that is very broad shoulders, a broad back, and just a natural tendency to have muscular arms, etc. When you combine that with being slim-hipped and small-bootied, well, it's a manly sort of shape frankly. There is no way I could train in a way to overcome what nature has given me - maybe minimize it slightly, but that's about it. Those of us on the more extreme end of a body shape spectrum are just kind of stuck with it. I know it gets noticed (as you noticed the gal at the gym whose weight loss is revealing her true shape,) but there is not much I can do about it.



Your body type as your describe it is more of an inverted triangle. Learn more about your body shape here http://youlookfab.com/2006/04/18/the-body-type-%E2%80%9Cbalancing-act%E2%80%9D/ Youloookfab is a nice website for fashion and learning how to dress your body type.

sparklesgirl007
02-05-2014, 05:58 PM
If you think judging other women's shapes for working out is acceptable then you can't complain when women look at you and list of the reasons you are unattractive!!

If you don't like like sculpted arms then take it easy on that section.
If you don't like a firm body, then stick to cardio!

Wow, that was rude. I wasn't judging her in a way that was insulting or offensive? Maybe I didn't articulate the message very well, but that was not my intent. I mentioned before she's in much better shape and healthier than I have ever been (or will be since I don't want to take it that far). My preference is to keep a figure without looking flabby. I was not saying "Ew she's muscular now, what do I do to NOT look like that", I don't see why a few of you jumped to that conclusion.

I get that she worked for that shape, I was just asking what lifting/toning you could do to keep an hourglass figure without being flabby. Anyway, thanks for those with helpful responses.

sparklesgirl007
02-05-2014, 06:02 PM
I have never had a nice body so trying to uncover one is completely fascinating for me and I am enjoying the ride, despite being 39, married and with kids. That being said, you do store body fat in individual ways as another poster said and I am most amused about finding where this is on me. Belly and legs. Just like grandma! At 281lbs it was all over. Now I am stuck with the stubborn stuff!

IanG, I've heard, haven't actually checked sources for this that where you store fat the easiest, is the last to go? Or something along those lines. I just signed up for a personal trainer at the gym so excited to see what I can do with what I have!

TooWicky
02-05-2014, 06:37 PM
Wannabeskinny, loved that link. I am totally an inverted triangle and never knew it! I was nodding my head along with the wardrobe suggestions, thanks!

hhm6
02-05-2014, 06:39 PM
I didn't think you were being insulting. And you're definitely not alone. I have many friends who don't emphasize core workouts/obliques because they don't want a wider waist. I have no expertise in that area to comment about lifting or toning but your best bet will be to tell your trainer what you want, and then hopefully direct you to your goal.

Good Luck!

penmage
02-05-2014, 07:57 PM
Hey OP, some women in my experience can bulk pretty easily and others cannot. I'm sure that statistically, the "bulk easily" crowd is a minority, but what if we fall under that minority? Doesn't change the fact that we have a higher chance of ending up where we might not want to be! So I totally get you. Personally, I can't bulk really - I'm just not built for it, but my sister has the body type to do so. I think that this article might be helpful for you - its by the "glutes" guy and he discusses a body type that I would like to have - (and he gives some suggestions in case you are the bulk type, and how to keep from getting that look - if you don't want it)

http://bretcontreras.com/how-to-attain-a-slender-look-like-jessica-alba-zoe-saldana/

Awesome article! Very interesting. Thanks for sharing :D

Diamondonalandmine
02-06-2014, 02:52 AM
Wow, that was rude.

Is exactly what some people thought reading your original post. You decided it was acceptable to pick out what you deemed a flaw in another women's body and voice why something else looked better. Why? Because the women in the photos worked for that look, it's somehow okay? It is not acceptable to judge other women's bodies. You'd think being over weight yourself you would have experienced this and know better how it can hurt others doing that.

The next time someone say's you would look better if you "were not so heavy" "did not have such big thighs" "had a firmer butt" or "you would look prettier if you weren't so big" remember what you thought was acceptable to voice about women that workout, because they are do just what you are.

That's called getting a taste of your own medicine!



That is all :D

sparklesgirl007
02-06-2014, 04:08 AM
Just signed up for a personal trainer and guess who it is!! The girl from my gym! She is totally awesome too. Not exactly a personal trainer but she helps with meal planning things and some beginner exercise/weight training, I forgot her exact title but she is awesome motivation!

I actually showed her this thread and she wasn't insulted at all, and told me many girls want to know what it's between, so for those of you who were insulted, I'm sorry that wasn't my intent. I just wanted to clarify what I'm trying to achieve and why I never understood how women don't get bulky, because that is what *I* have seen. I'm not an expert on weight training, so I don't know what to do or what not to do when it comes to this, hence why I even wrote this in the first place.

She actually gave me the link to the article with Britney spears that was by the glutes guy! She training to be in a crossfit Reebok competition so she told me she's hoping to get a lot stronger and inevitably bigger and she understands it's not the norm for most women.

Her daughter actually diets/exercises to be lean and she said she will give me tips her daughter uses to slim down without bulking up, I don't think I've felt so happy leaving the gym before!

and honestly, some of you on here made me feel awful and sad for asking these questions. I came on here to ask advice and got attacked for making insults/poking flaws in people.

Diamond-Just wanted to post these responses and then I'm done here.

Is exactly what some people thought reading your original post. You decided it was acceptable to pick out what you deemed a flaw in another women's body and voice why something else looked better.

-When did I ever say it was a flaw? I said I knew she wanted that but I have a preference of something that isn't so muscular. Having a preference for something different doesn't mean it's a flaw. I really don't see how this is an insult?

Why? Because the women in the photos worked for that look, it's somehow okay?

-Again I know she wanted that.

It is not acceptable to judge other women's bodies. You'd think being over weight yourself you would have experienced this and know better how it can hurt others doing that.

-Again, I am NOT insulting her. I'm just saying I've seen both extremes and I want something in between. Even she understood my point, can't help it if you don't understand it.

The next time someone say's you would look better if you "were not so heavy" "did not have such big thighs" "had a firmer butt" or "you would look prettier if you weren't so big" remember what you thought was acceptable to voice about women that workout, because they are do just what you are.

-Those are insults, I'm not telling her "You would look better without being muscular" I never said that in any of my posts. I'm saying if *I were to work out, how do I workout so I achieve something more toned and less muscular" I was asking if it was genetics that made people bulk up more than others, jesus.

That's called getting a taste of your own medicine!

That is all :D

Honestly, I've asked this question on many other forums, weight training forums, facebook- no one has ever been so rude to me. I don't know why you think I'm being insulting (I truly don't). I'm allowed to have preferences for MY body, that was all I was asking advice for.

Wannabeskinny
02-06-2014, 10:05 AM
Don't leave just because you didn't like one person's answer. Your questions did come off in a way that some people would find not only insulting but a little passive aggressive too. For example you say "I know this topic has been discussed forever, but I just can't get a grasp on why people keep saying women who lift won't become manly looking." Some people would take that you mean that you've already heard the various reasons why people say that women can't bulk up but you think the opposite anyway and are challenging the facts that you've already heard.

You say "...how do people weight train without looking square??" This is also antagonistic because I'm pretty positive that not one single person, not even very serious athletes trains for the purpose of looking square. And since it has been discussed to death, it takes a whole lot of effort beyond just a work out per day in order to make your muscles that large.

Then you said "I hope I'm not being offensive-I know they've gone through tremendous work to look this way" - which states again that you already know how difficult it is to achieve that level of build, and it's easy to avoid if you don't want it.

You say " I feel like all the women who work out and have toned arms immediately look more square than the bottom half" - again with calling women square, and then making a sweeping judgement on all women who work out.

And the of course you say "I feel like all the girls who do squats also shrink their hips a bit (which I know is healthy) but also results in a smaller waist" - sweeping judgement and obvious lack of knowledge about what squats are meant for.

I really was not offended or insulted by your OP. But to continuously say that you don't mean offense and can't understand why any of these things are offensive... well ya that doesn't sit well with most people. I'm not personally offended but that's not exactly the best way to go about a conversation if you truly don't mean to insult anyone lol. More or less you're saying "please don't take this the wrong way, but why do you want to look like a man and what can I do so that I don't look like that at all?" So I hope your questions are all answered, it seems like you don't have much to worry about right? It can be confusing when you're first starting out but it sounds like you have an awesome trainer who will do her best to help you not look like her. Also, did you ever figure out what your body shape is according to that link I sent you?

Sinead
02-06-2014, 12:47 PM
Her daughter actually diets/exercises to be lean and she said she will give me tips her daughter uses to slim down without bulking up, I don't think I've felt so happy leaving the gym before!


I'm curious to hear this advice, thanks!

TooWicky
02-06-2014, 02:55 PM
You sound a bit put out about being made to feel temporarily awful or insulting, but it's important not to hang on to all of that - life is too short for emotional roller coaster drama and I don't subscribe to it.

Your original post mentioned not wanting to look manly or near manly twice, and seriously not wanting to be square or squarish twice.

I wanted to gently point out that some of us on the extreme end of the body spectrum do not have a choice about looking squarish. Some of us will not and can not have an hourglass figure or even hips bigger than our waists. Some of us ladies naturally have a much larger upper body with broad shoulders and bigger arms. Do you think it's possible that equaling that type of figure to being manly or near manly (the opposite gender, in fact,) might possibly be a bit oft-putting to some of your fellow posters here? Even more unfortunately, and to quote you, you even typed "Personally, as a girl, that's how I would want to keep my figure" referring to preserving your hourglass shape. Oh boy.

I am absolutely all for a person having a preference for whatever body type and physique one wants to achieve! I mean this when I say I wish you the best of luck in the gym. As an "inverted triangle" shape, it does get tiresome, though, to be held up as the HECK NO and WHY WOULD ANY GIRLS DO THAT TO THEMSELVES type of example, though. If I had my druthers, people would focus on what they want to achieve, rather than point out people as examples of that they do not want. To me, anyway, it keeps the spirit of supportiveness and positivity alive without inadverdently insulting someone for something they can't change.

On an additional note, I want to say I very much admire you for getting a personal trainer at the gym!! I am having an awful time getting started with fitness. Up until this point, I have lost all my weight through diet alone. Again, good luck to you, and I mean this sincerely. Please update us on your progress - this lively thread aside, I'm very curious about what workouts and advice your trainer will be giving you about maintaining your hourglass figure.

sparklesgirl007
02-06-2014, 04:29 PM
Don't leave just because you didn't like one person's answer. Your questions did come off in a way that some people would find not only insulting but a little passive aggressive too. For example you say "I know this topic has been discussed forever, but I just can't get a grasp on why people keep saying women who lift won't become manly looking." Some people would take that you mean that you've already heard the various reasons why people say that women can't bulk up but you think the opposite anyway and are challenging the facts that you've already heard.

You say "...how do people weight train without looking square??" This is also antagonistic because I'm pretty positive that not one single person, not even very serious athletes trains for the purpose of looking square. And since it has been discussed to death, it takes a whole lot of effort beyond just a work out per day in order to make your muscles that large.

Then you said "I hope I'm not being offensive-I know they've gone through tremendous work to look this way" - which states again that you already know how difficult it is to achieve that level of build, and it's easy to avoid if you don't want it.

You say " I feel like all the women who work out and have toned arms immediately look more square than the bottom half" - again with calling women square, and then making a sweeping judgement on all women who work out.

And the of course you say "I feel like all the girls who do squats also shrink their hips a bit (which I know is healthy) but also results in a smaller waist" - sweeping judgement and obvious lack of knowledge about what squats are meant for.

I really was not offended or insulted by your OP. But to continuously say that you don't mean offense and can't understand why any of these things are offensive... well ya that doesn't sit well with most people. I'm not personally offended but that's not exactly the best way to go about a conversation if you truly don't mean to insult anyone lol. More or less you're saying "please don't take this the wrong way, but why do you want to look like a man and what can I do so that I don't look like that at all?" So I hope your questions are all answered, it seems like you don't have much to worry about right? It can be confusing when you're first starting out but it sounds like you have an awesome trainer who will do her best to help you not look like her. Also, did you ever figure out what your body shape is according to that link I sent you?



The first link I posted (in my original post) is titled "Proof that Lifting Weights Will NOT Make Women Bulky" but when I look at the photos *to me* it looks like she put on quite a bit of muscle. I'm not challenging anything I'm saying if this is *proof* it seems women CAN get bulky. So I want to know what I should do if I don't want to get that muscular. I guess the word "square" is causing all the commotion? I think I'm rectangle shape but as I've gained it's more square, that's the whole reason I'm trying to work out and not accentuate those features.

This is why I posted Jen Selter profile, because she was not as curvy before she was working out, and after getting toned/fit she got more curves, so I asked if it was genetic, because *if I were to lift/tone* that's the look I would want to go for.


Anyway, I'm tired of this thread/topic and have no desire to really comment on here anymore. I go to xfit gym so I based what I saw on the people I see and talk to there, I know how hard they work for their bodies, I talk about this square topic many times and not one girl/guy has ever been offended so I didn't think it was an issue, again my apologies for offending anyone.


I'm curious to hear this advice, thanks!

Me too!! I really feel like this is what I wanted to ask, I should have asked my question differently. Her daughter does modeling for Abercrombie so I'm assuming she has a very clean diet! That's gonna be rough for me :(

You sound a bit put out about being made to feel temporarily awful or insulting, but it's important not to hang on to all of that - life is too short for emotional roller coaster drama and I don't subscribe to it.

Your original post mentioned not wanting to look manly or near manly twice, and seriously not wanting to be square or squarish twice.

I wanted to gently point out that some of us on the extreme end of the body spectrum do not have a choice about looking squarish. Some of us will not and can not have an hourglass figure or even hips bigger than our waists. Some of us ladies naturally have a much larger upper body with broad shoulders and bigger arms. Do you think it's possible that equaling that type of figure to being manly or near manly (the opposite gender, in fact,) might possibly be a bit oft-putting to some of your fellow posters here? Even more unfortunately, and to quote you, you even typed "Personally, as a girl, that's how I would want to keep my figure" referring to preserving your hourglass shape. Oh boy.

I am absolutely all for a person having a preference for whatever body type and physique one wants to achieve! I mean this when I say I wish you the best of luck in the gym. As an "inverted triangle" shape, it does get tiresome, though, to be held up as the HECK NO and WHY WOULD ANY GIRLS DO THAT TO THEMSELVES type of example, though. If I had my druthers, people would focus on what they want to achieve, rather than point out people as examples of that they do not want. To me, anyway, it keeps the spirit of supportiveness and positivity alive without inadverdently insulting someone for something they can't change.

On an additional note, I want to say I very much admire you for getting a personal trainer at the gym!! I am having an awful time getting started with fitness. Up until this point, I have lost all my weight through diet alone. Again, good luck to you, and I mean this sincerely. Please update us on your progress - this lively thread aside, I'm very curious about what workouts and advice your trainer will be giving you about maintaining your hourglass figure.

I am the squarish/rectangle shape (as I gain I tend to look more top heavy and square), I want to keep the more rectangle shape if I can as it is my preference. The girls I work out with at the gym don't care for a shape per se, they work out for competitions, dead lift, it's pretty intense stuff.
Luckily my trainer knows what my goals are, so I will direct these sort of questions toward her next time.

I also wanted to add, I don't think Ive ever said I had an hourglass figure? I want to achieve it if I can, but if not keep my original shape which (looking at older photos) seems like a rectangle.

Lastly, Diamond made it seem like I was pointing out flaws in attempt to purposely insult someone, and got quite catty with her comments. "Taste of your own medicine, don't get mad when people tell you your butt would look better firmer, or thighs smaller? Dear god. When I say I'm not trying to be offensive, it means I'm not trying to insult, I get this is a sensitive issue. If I lost 50 lbs and someone told me, if I were you I would lose 10lbs more, I would not be insulted, that's a preference for *their* body.

I had quite a few people look at this thread and thought things got blown out of proportion and how it's very common when women start losing weight to want to look a certain way. I'm going to direct these questions else where from now on.

Anyway, thanks for the responses.

Wannabeskinny
02-06-2014, 04:56 PM
Thanks for scolding everyone. I'm sure elsewhere you go will be much more supportive of you since we're all too sensitive and get insulted over the silliest things. I wish you luck in asking people how not to look square.

hhm6
02-06-2014, 05:00 PM
I'm curious to hear this advice, thanks!

I feel like this might have to do with dieting first, or getting to a low BF% and then tightening up? I know a friend of mine does that, she's now at 16% BF and now eats high protein, carbs in the form of veggies, and has very focused workouts. She also avoids any oblique exercises, and she is very shapely. But even before working out, she had a great figure like those apparently "plus" size models. But I'm not expert. Actually does anyone know here? I'm curious now lol


OP I hope you can update us with your progress, maybe if not on here somewhere else on 3FC. I was not insulted or offended, it didn't occur to me until I read the other responses how it could be offensive, even then I read your post as a question of how to not be muscular, but the generalization of square=manly isn't the best comparison to make. I hope you achieve what you want to! :)