General chatter - Heart surgeon speaks about how sugar is causing heart disease, not fat..




GlamourGirl827
01-30-2014, 08:01 AM
Interesting read.

http://www.tunedbody.com/heart-surgeon-declares-really-causes-heart-illness/


SusanJefferson
01-30-2014, 08:24 AM
Interesting article GlamourGirl827 but moderation and 15 minute a day exercise is key.When munchies come on I eat a sweet thing here or there but not every day.

Wannabehealthy
01-30-2014, 09:50 AM
Being a heart patient for 15+ years, I mostly agree with the article. I grew up in a family that did not eat a lot of meat (saturated fat) because we couldn't afford it. We ate lots and lots of starchy carbs that fill you up. Vegetables were something that came out of a can, and occupied one little tiny corner or your plate. No fruit. Couldn't afford it. Everyone in my family died of heart disease.

This doctor says that fat is not the problem. I'm on the fence there. I still don't eat much red meat, but there are a lot of healthy fats that help your heart. Some people look at the calorie count of foods such as avacado and turn it away because it's high in calorie. But the fat in it is so good for you. These are the fats that should be in your diet, IMO. Nothing has to be eliminated completely. Sweets and processed carbs are OK occasionally in small amounts. Also, you can lose weight without exercising, but it IS necessary for health reasons.


GlamourGirl827
01-30-2014, 10:39 AM
Interesting article GlamourGirl827 but moderation and 15 minute a day exercise is key.When munchies come on I eat a sweet thing here or there but not every day.

Maybe the key for you, but not everyone. Moderation does not wor for me. I've tried it. Plus when I do actually give up sugar all the way, I am amazed at how much better I feel then when I'm eating it in moderation. I also gave up grains and I cannot believe how much better I feel. Never felt this good when eating it in moderation. If you've never completely detoxes from sugar you might think moderation is the key but you don't really know for see unless you can compare it to completely abstaining.

GlamourGirl827
01-30-2014, 10:48 AM
Being a heart patient for 15+ years, I mostly agree with the article. I grew up in a family that did not eat a lot of meat (saturated fat) because we couldn't afford it. We ate lots and lots of starchy carbs that fill you up. Vegetables were something that came out of a can, and occupied one little tiny corner or your plate. No fruit. Couldn't afford it. Everyone in my family died of heart disease.

This doctor says that fat is not the problem. I'm on the fence there. I still don't eat much red meat, but there are a lot of healthy fats that help your heart. Some people look at the calorie count of foods such as avacado and turn it away because it's high in calorie. But the fat in it is so good for you. These are the fats that should be in your diet, IMO. Nothing has to be eliminated completely. Sweets and processed carbs are OK occasionally in small amounts. Also, you can lose weight without exercising, but it IS necessary for health reasons.

I'm curious why you think sweets and processes carbs are ok in small amounts? I think people tell them selves that because that *want* it to be ok because they like it. Cigarettes are not ok in small amounts, we know this, I know this, yet I do choose to socially smoke maybe once to twice a year at most. I do not tell myself that's its ok in small amounts. I tell myself that I'm ok with the health impact because I enjoy a cigarette once in a blue moon to unwind. You can do the research yourself, or wait another decade for this to become mainstream but we are finding out thy sugar is bad for us, and a little is not ok. Having said that, will I never eat it again? No, I'm sure I will still have cake on my bday or cookies at Christmas! But I won't tell myself that a little is ok either.

Silverfire
01-30-2014, 11:19 AM
Huh, interesting. Pretty sure I'm still sticking to the moderation route though thank you very much!

ronni62
01-30-2014, 11:20 AM
I've read several books on this topic and have to agree that fats, including saturated fats, have never been the problem related to heart disease. Totally agree that sugar and processed foods are the culprit. The fat connection was an easy idea the drug companies (statins) developed and used to misrepresent data in order to sell their new products.

Also, stress is a problem related to heart disease as it causes inflammation which is the root of many health issues.

GlamourGirl827
01-30-2014, 02:42 PM
I've read several books on this topic and have to agree that fats, including saturated fats, have never been the problem related to heart disease. Totally agree that sugar and processed foods are the culprit. The fat connection was an easy idea the drug companies (statins) developed and used to misrepresent data in order to sell their new products.

Also, stress is a problem related to heart disease as it causes inflammation which is the root of many health issues.

Agree & agree...as a nurse I feel fooled. I cannot speak for all those that are healthcare providers (nurses, doctors etc) but I can say that we are/were taught that *this* (fat, cholesterol, and meds to bring it down) was the right way to handle pt health. I think most of us trust our education, and I believe that most doctors truly care about their patients and think they are doing the right thing. I find this exciting that the medical community is just beginning to look to what science is showing (sugar as the culprit) and if that means going against the drug companies and what has been traditionally practiced for so long, then so be it. It excited me that we may be on the dawn of knowing how to truly help our patients stay healthy. It makes me feel bad for all those we've failed.

Clip from The Doctors on the topic:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GFX34LoSYg4

I have not watched this link yet, but I figured I'd post it because it popped up on youtube lol

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dBnniua6-oM

nelie
01-30-2014, 04:17 PM
Well we have known for many years that diabetes (chronic high blood sugar) causes damage and the article is talking about high blood sugar, in this case spikes. There are ways to minimize blood sugar spikes for those that aren't diabetic, glycemic load is a good way.

And from what I've read of recent research, it seems that they do believe red meat is damaging to your cardiovascular system due to an amino acid, l-carnitine. So I think some of the research is being updated on that regarding fat but it is also a good reason to evaluate eating red meat.

GlamourGirl827
01-30-2014, 06:52 PM
Well we have known for many years that diabetes (chronic high blood sugar) causes damage and the article is talking about high blood sugar, in this case spikes. There are ways to minimize blood sugar spikes for those that aren't diabetic, glycemic load is a good way.

And from what I've read of recent research, it seems that they do believe red meat is damaging to your cardiovascular system due to an amino acid, l-carnitine. So I think some of the research is being updated on that regarding fat but it is also a good reason to evaluate eating red meat.

Yes, I have heard, specifically on the subject of red meat that the way it is cooked it what effects it. I have not done any thorough reading on the topic, so I'm just giving the basics of what I remember, but I think it was red meat or maybe all meat in general should not be over cooked or cooked a high temperature because it does effect/change some of protiens and makes "toxic" compounds...

GlamourGirl827
01-30-2014, 07:10 PM
I was just looking at some studies, but the flaw that is being pointed out is that when these studies are conducted, other dietary choices are not evaluated. The study I am currently looking at says that thoses that consume red meat "tend to" die youner. But the data was collected through interview about their intake of red meat. THeir other diet habits are not evaluated. This is a big point of those challenging the idea that fat is the problem...when the studies during the late 70s/ and 80s were done, they did not account for the occupant's sugar or processed food intake.
From birth (I'm an 80s baby) I have been told that lean meats are better chicken turkey, and even with this knowledge that saturate fat/ red meat is not unhealthy I naturally gravitate towards lean meats, because it is engrained in my head. Those around me that lead heathier lifestyles, that exercise and "watch what they eat", tend to choose leaner meats as well...and they also opt for whole grains..and low fat dairy...those are the "staples" of a healthy diet that those that are trying to "be healthy" will usually go to...they also "avoid" sweets and junk (like cookies or chipd" and opt for healthy snacks... Lets face it, it still "feels" unhealthy to eat a burger or steak! People that make this part of their regualr consumption by generic advice standards are not "being healthy". It is that hard of a leap that those same people do not practice healthy habits in other areas of their lives? Less exercise, drinking soda, eating junk food..

So now conduct that study, ask people about their red meat consumption only, and what do you get? A result that shows that red meat must = dying early...but to truly conduct this study independant of the sugar theory, the participants much have no sugar and controll grains in their diet, then allow one group to eat a measured larger amount of red meat and feed the other group only lean meat...but even then we can make people do that until they die! lol so how to we really "prove" these things? ..food for thought, pun intended!

nelie
01-31-2014, 08:02 AM
Well I was referring to the idea that cholesterol and fat are no longer thought to be the cause of heart disease but they do still see correlation with red meat consumption. And also research that if you eat a meal with red meat, your risk of heart attack increases immediately after the meal.

Here is one article from last year but I think there were multiple similar studies
http://www.forbes.com/sites/larryhusten/2013/04/07/researchers-find-new-pathway-linking-heart-disease-to-carnitine/

Also, one thing I thought about is I read that there has also been a lot of research regarding diabetes and exercise. One research study I read last year talked about using walking after meals as a means to control diabetes. The study participants were able to control their blood sugar by simply walking. I know a lot of cultures walk after meals or just walk a lot in general (which we Americans don't outside of major cities with good transportation systems).

Now the study just applied to diabetics but if we think spikes in blood sugar can damage our cardiovascular system, then walking or gentle exercise after meals may be a way to help prevent that.

ICUwishing
01-31-2014, 09:46 AM
I'm waiting to see them address WHERE the red meat comes from. Let's see a trial of CAFO meat from sick, mistreated animals put up next to grass-fed, humanely raised cattle and/or wild venison. And while we're at it, let's go have a look at the lab-grown red meat, can we - a few years BEFORE our wonderful, capable FDA says go ahead and experiment on everyone?

nelie
01-31-2014, 11:06 AM
I'm waiting to see them address WHERE the red meat comes from. Let's see a trial of CAFO meat from sick, mistreated animals put up next to grass-fed, humanely raised cattle and/or wild venison. And while we're at it, let's go have a look at the lab-grown red meat, can we - a few years BEFORE our wonderful, capable FDA says go ahead and experiment on everyone?

Well one specific study on mice were given synthesized carnitine, which is found in red meat. Carnitine is also found in a lot of weight loss drinks as well. So it doesn't seem to be the red meat itself, the fat from the red meat or cholesterol but the specific amino acid. Carnitine is not an essential amino acid and it is synthesized by the body. The study with the mice showed an issue with the digestion of carnitine. Other studies were on humans and red meat consumption and not isolating the specific amino acid. It might be stupid/dangerous/unethical to give humans carnitine supplements to see if they develop heart disease.

Wannabehealthy
02-03-2014, 09:08 PM
I'm curious why you think sweets and processes carbs are ok in small amounts? I think people tell them selves that because that *want* it to be ok because they like it. Cigarettes are not ok in small amounts, we know this, I know this, yet I do choose to socially smoke maybe once to twice a year at most. I do not tell myself that's its ok in small amounts. I tell myself that I'm ok with the health impact because I enjoy a cigarette once in a blue moon to unwind. You can do the research yourself, or wait another decade for this to become mainstream but we are finding out thy sugar is bad for us, and a little is not ok. Having said that, will I never eat it again? No, I'm sure I will still have cake on my bday or cookies at Christmas! But I won't tell myself that a little is ok either.


I say that sweets are ok occasionally in small amounts because I believe it. It's not because I want it to be ok, because I don't eat sweets because I don't like them. I prefer a savory taste. But there are some people who if they tell themselves they will never eat sweets again will just crave it all the more. So a piece of cake on their birthday or a couple cookies at Christmas are OK IMO. Sorry, but I'm old, and I doubt if I will be here another decade to see if I'm right or wrong.

Durian
02-03-2014, 10:28 PM
I say that sweets are ok occasionally in small amounts because I believe it. It's not because I want it to be ok, because I don't eat sweets because I don't like them. I prefer a savory taste. But there are some people who if they tell themselves they will never eat sweets again will just crave it all the more. So a piece of cake on their birthday or a couple cookies at Christmas are OK IMO. Sorry, but I'm old, and I doubt if I will be here another decade to see if I'm right or wrong.

Carol, I just fell in love a little. :)

And, I absolutely agree with you.

Wannabehealthy
02-07-2014, 10:30 AM
Thanks, Durian. I have done a lot of research about heart disease and diabetes because I have both. I do agree with GlamourGirl that it is not all about saturated fat. Processed carbs are bad for you in excessive amounts. I just don't agree that it needs to be completely eliminated from a healthy diet. If one cookie is going to lead you to eat 20 cookies, then it's a problem for you. Fast food is not healthy. But if everyone else wants McDonalds you can go that one time, as long as it doesn't lead to lunching at McDonalds every day, or every week. It's my opinion that your diet should consist of as many fruits and vegetables as you can manage. No one ever got fat from eating too many fruits and veggies. No one ever had a heart attack from too many fruits and veggies. And that's the one food group that everyone is lacking in. No doctor will ever tell you to cut back on your vegetables. Eat whatever you want with it, in moderation.

While I agree that sugar is not good for you, my 71 YO DH grew up eating sweets. Donuts and coffee for breakfast, when in grade school. 5 boys all did that. I don't know what their mother was thinking. To this day, he has cookies, cakes, donuts in the house at all times. It's a good thing I don't like sweets. He has never had a weight problem, and his only med is a blood pressure pill and an aspirin. Sure, he's going to die from something, someday. But all this sugar, plus the red meat that he loves, he's not the worse for it. I would never recommend his lifestyle, but he's a lot better off than I am!

Each of us must make the choice that suits our particular situation.

NemesisClaws
02-07-2014, 10:58 AM
Processed foods for the most part really messes with my stomach. I'm in pain about 10 mins afterwards from eating and spend a long time in the restroom as a result. So it's already a no-brainer for me.

Now sugar..that's a toughie....My biggest culprit is sweet southern tea everyday. I just cannot go without my tea. But I have been gradually cutting down on the sugar as I'm trying to get to the point where I'll have very little to no sugar in it. Once I get that accomplished, then heck, I'll see about everything else! LOL

diamondgeog
02-07-2014, 07:32 PM
I posted this independently over in carb counters. Very powerful and well written. If you don't know about Ancel Keys and John Yudkin look them up. I just bought Pure, White, and Deadly by Yudkin. Amazing intro by Robert Lustig who is also pretty amazing.

Apparently the reason fats are not a problem is they lead to large particle cholesterol which is benign. Study after study shows fat doesn't lead to heart disease. I asked my doctor about a test for cholesterol with particle size. She said it is 1,000 dollars and no insurance will pay. Why? Many people on drugs are perfectly healthy heart wise...until they get on the cholesterol drugs.

GlamourGirl827
02-07-2014, 10:21 PM
I say that sweets are ok occasionally in small amounts because I believe it. It's not because I want it to be ok, because I don't eat sweets because I don't like them. I prefer a savory taste. But there are some people who if they tell themselves they will never eat sweets again will just crave it all the more. So a piece of cake on their birthday or a couple cookies at Christmas are OK IMO. Sorry, but I'm old, and I doubt if I will be here another decade to see if I'm right or wrong.

I'm sorry but believing something doesnt make it true. I am from the generation of evidence based medicine..so if its not proven, or disproven, then it is not just so because someone believes it with no evidence to support it. I know we all know someone that ate donuts everyday for 99 years and because they are still ok, then donuts/sugar must be ok right??...but no...just like we all know someone that smoked like a chimney and lived to 100...it doesnt mean smoking is healthy, it just means that person for some reason (genes?) was not susceptible to smoking.
I understand that you think what you believe is relevant, but its not. Honestly, what I believe is not either. What its being uncovered through studies is. You may not be around in a decade, but I'm hoping I will be assuming no freak accidents, and I'm very excited to see this being uncovered. It truly could be groundbreaking in the battle against obesity...we stop telling people to eat LOW fat which is not working and start cutting out the real cause. Not to mention for those that "have no will power", we may find that it is truly an underlying addiction to sugar...and we can recommend abstenance, just like with alcoholics...anyway I cant wait for this to be studied more and more..:D