Carb Counters - Why going low carb is 'essential' for weight loss




diamondgeog
01-28-2014, 05:32 PM
http://dietmdhawaii.com/fat-burning-body/low-carb-diet/

This seems to dovetail many studies showing outcomes are better when people lower carbs (yes veggie carbs are good but plenty of other carbs in most people's diets to reduce). People were given calorie restricted diets in these studies versus not calorie restricted low carb diets. Outcomes better in low carb.

I found the science explained in very clear ways in this. I'd say carbs compared to anything else I eat made me stay hungry and made me lethargic. So would have been virtually impossible to have succeeded without lowering them.


362to262
02-13-2014, 07:45 PM
And yet THIS woman has lost over 100lb on a high sugar diet!

http://www.express.co.uk/news/health/454496/Dedicated-mum-sheds-nearly-half-her-body-weight-to-land-dream-job-as-PE-teacher

ReillyJ
02-13-2014, 07:47 PM
http://dietmdhawaii.com/fat-burning-body/low-carb-diet/

This seems to dovetail many studies showing outcomes are better when people lower carbs (yes veggie carbs are good but plenty of other carbs in most people's diets to reduce). People were given calorie restricted diets in these studies versus not calorie restricted low carb diets. Outcomes better in low carb.

I found the science explained in very clear ways in this. I'd say carbs compared to anything else I eat made me stay hungry and made me lethargic. So would have been virtually impossible to have succeeded without lowering them.

Diamondgeog, i wanted to ask you in your other thread what your diet is but it got shut down, reason i ask is SOLELY because i'm interested, not to pick it apart or start a war :)
Of course you can decline but i find it interesting what works for others even if it may or may not work for me!


diamondgeog
02-13-2014, 08:38 PM
Non-starchy veggies. Meats (actually all, chicken, beef, pork, turkey), organic when possible. Cheese. Fats, butter, coconut oil, olive oil, trying macadamia, avocados. Some fruit. Eggs

For breakfast I used to use the healthy grass meals you can buy on Amazon. They are amazing and I still highly recommend them. I am now using Healthy Skoop. It is kind of pricey. Works out to $1.80 a breakfast. But so good. I add hemp powder to it which is an incredible mix of fiber and protein. Some carbs, but net carbs are zero.

About that woman. People do have different sensitivities to sugar. Also weight isn't the end all be all. Is she healthy inside? How did her muscle mass do on that diet? How healthy is her liver? Does she feel strong? Or just weigh less?

But most importantly why fight losing weight when it can be super enjoyable and not that hard? That was the most amazing thing about this. My appetite has done a 180. Once I changed my diet, my body clicked. Exercise became easier. Once I did the diet changes and more exercise, the weight is just shedding off. Maybe those are her click foods, foods with more carbs. But it would turn me into a lunatic to try and control calories eating sugar carbs starch. Why make losing weight so hard? I don't even have to worry about calories now. My appetite is so under control now, it is virtually no work to lose now.

diamondgeog
02-13-2014, 08:40 PM
I intentionally put essential in quotes BTW knowing it is not for everyone.

sarahinparis
02-14-2014, 02:54 AM
The hunger thing is what convinced me that for my body low carb is really best.

I do agree that we're all different, and some people do fine, maybe even thrive on low fat. I'm just not one of them.

Plus, I find the foods on low carb MUCH more satisfying than I ever found what I was eating on low fat-low cal.

Thanks for sharing these kinds of things!

diamondgeog
02-14-2014, 07:28 AM
I did it for the hunger thing to start. But it turns out grains are really, really bad for you. Even if you are not a high insulin producer. Basically they are bad for humans and it is sad in so many countries some people have no choice.

And again I didn't know this. A year ago I was all whole grains and whole wheat is healthy. I started a thread with good links.

So now its a health thing. Feel awesome off grain.

Suzanne 3FC
02-14-2014, 05:55 PM
Keep in mind that for a lot of people, low carb diets are not the best choice for health or other reasons. Also, many people do lose weight successfully on high carb diets. Weight Watchers has turned out a lot of life long success stories and I know quite a few of them. The South Beach diet is also proven to be successful. It's a personal choice and what works for one person isn't necessarily going to work for the next.

I personally exclude most grains most of the time, but it has nothing to do with carb content. It's simply because they don't provide many nutrients. Not enough bang for the buck :) I do eat oats, but I choose them for a reason. I focus on the most nutritious foods and I eat huge amounts of vegetables and fruits every day. My plates are very colorful :) I don't eat dairy or eggs, and the only animal protein I eat comes from wild caught seafood that I have for dinner. I choose plant proteins for my other meals. I don't consume much fat, just what is in my seafood or salad dressing. I don't choose any foods based on how they affect weight. I choose them because they are very rich in antioxidants and other important nutrients that are essential for long term good health. Weight loss was just a bonus.

I lost over 100 pounds with this lifestyle, even though it's technically high carb. I exercise a lot and I feel better now at age 52 than I did 20 or maybe even 30 years ago :)

We're all different and our diets reflect that. There are so many variables that help us determine the best diets for us as individuals. I think that if anyone finds what works for them in regards to their long term health goals, then they are doing the right thing for themselves. However, that doesn't mean that their method would be the right thing for my personal body or yours :)

ReillyJ
02-14-2014, 06:05 PM
I have to totally agree w/Suzanne

While lower carb may indeed be the healthiest choice for a lot of people and also may make weight loss easiest, it certainly is not the absolute "essential" for weight loss

i think with all of these threads we can agree that low carb does indeed have its merits and health benefits and is the way to go for many people for weight loss, it is not THE be all end all.

yoyoma
02-14-2014, 06:37 PM
I also find that watching my carbs helps me lose weight. But I (and I think many others) on this site are more receptive to the experiences of others when they couch their experience as what has worked for them, rather than an absolute truth. Quoted or not, I think a different title (say, "Going low carb was essential for my weight loss" and posting in the same vein) would have attracted interested readers with less risk of putting anyone off.

diamondgeog
02-14-2014, 06:37 PM
Yep agree, everyone is different. It sounds like I have more dairy and meat and fat than Suzanne. But it also sounds like Suzanne probably has less than 300 grams carbs a day. That is hard to reach grain free.

The couple of things awesome for me on whatever I am doing, 'the grain free' diet? Is not hungry anymore. Cannot describe the awesomeness of this. And feel so strong all the time now. I am happy if people get healthy and reach goals and stay there however its done.

diamondgeog
02-14-2014, 06:39 PM
It was also the title of the article I linked in the first post without quotes.

Pattience
02-14-2014, 07:03 PM
Ok diamond, so are you going to eat this way for the rest of your life? I think the science would suggest that that's not a healthy choice.

I remember reading about the atkins diet in the past and it was noted that this is a short term diet meant for people losing weight so they could have surgery. Of course since then its been marketed as a general weight loss approach along with the other high protein low carb diets.

But anyway i doubt that you can sustain this way of eating for the rest of your life and live long.

I think the reason why people get hungry on any diet is because they lower their calories by far too much.

I lose weight quite easily and with no hunger and much enjoyment of my food on a vegetarian diet. I should eat a bit more protein than i am but the carbs and fats do not cause me any difficult. All i did to change my tastes was cut out sugary foods. I still eat a pinch of sugar on my cornflakes but that's it. I eat anything else i want to. Even cheese. I've lost ore than 14 pounds since the beginning of January. No formal exercise. Just a bit of gardening now and then.

It seems people with a great deal of weight to lose don't trust that they can shake their appetites for things like pasta and bread. But i think they can. The problem is what goes on in your heads, the way you prepare food, and how many calories you try to eat daily.

The low carb/high protein and fat diet is such a radical change from what they are used to, it feels easy.

There's a further point to be made. Eating so much animal food is not so good for the planet which is already under great resource stress. It takes a lot more resources to create a kilogram of protein than a kilogram of carbohydrates - more land, more water and more money.

diamondgeog
02-14-2014, 07:14 PM
There is a lot of great research out. Mark's Daily Apple is awesome. There are some cancers associated with meat consumption. It turns out preparation method is HUGELY important. As is having a salad or broc with the meat. It is actually really fascinating.

Medium raw, medium is best. Braising, slow cooking, marinating is good. Charing high heat well done is bad. And I am not Atkins.

I have immense respect for vegetarians on many levels. One of my change goals of 2014 was to eat less meat. But I do think the historical record and our bodies show we are eat meaters. But 12% max is best. I feel full on meat or veggies as long as I am having fat also.

But people do live long incredibly healthy and vigorous lives with meat and fat in their diets. I am not on Atkins again. I probably have around 100 carbs a day.

From everything I've read and felt I will take meat over grains any day every day. We've eaten grains max 10,000 years or so. And those were fermented, sprouted, or soaked. I'll take my chances with meat over modern wheat and corn. And humans survived and thrived without grains millions of years their entire lives. Yes I can do it for life quite easily.

diamondgeog
02-14-2014, 09:01 PM
The problem for Earth is the massive mal-distribution of wealth. A few hundred people have as much wealth as over 50% of the entire world population.

If we organized our production system for people and not the wealth of a few we could easily have meat for all.

And for the LAST time I am NOT on Atkins. I eat a lot of veggies. Not everyone who gives up grains is on Atkins.

You can research or not. But to me grains are WAY more scary than meat. 80-90% of U.S. corn is GMO. That is super frightening to me. Plus from what I've read grains are very bad for many, they were for me. You might feel you are doing great say I feel usually 9 out of 10. But maybe after you gave up grains, you'd realize wow i was a 6. Or maybe not. I've cured allergies and I don't get sick after giving up grains.

French eat lots of meat and fat. Virtually no heart disease, good lifespans.

And I am not celiac. One of the few things I wasn't allergic to. You or anyone can do the research if you want to or not. I think there is very strong, compelling evidence humans are not designed to eat grains. And this goes well beyond the high glycemic index and spiking blood sugar and making some hungry. That's just the tip of the iceberg with grains.

diamondgeog
02-15-2014, 12:02 AM
I am really listening to everyone. I like this article about not one diet for all and to listen to your body. And both vegan and Paleo (I am Paleoish, I eat cheese) have whole unprocessed foods in common which is big.

And one of my goals in 2014 was to eat less meat.

http://www.fourriversclinic.com/2013/02/the-food-fight-of-the-decade-vegan-vs-paleo/

Suzanne 3FC
02-15-2014, 12:42 AM
Yep agree, everyone is different. It sounds like I have more dairy and meat and fat than Suzanne. But it also sounds like Suzanne probably has less than 300 grams carbs a day. That is hard to reach grain free.


True, I don't eat 300 grams of carbs per day, but I'm also not on a 2000 calorie diet :) The recommendations are for a percentage, not a set number, and it's 45-65% carbs which should be adjusted per age, activity level, etc, and is based on the needs of a healthy adult who is not obese and does not have obesity related health issues. 300 carbs would be about 60% of a 2000 calorie diet and would probably suit a healthy and active adult male. Which I'm not :p . Someone on a 1500 calorie weight loss diet would need about 200 grams carbs, if you even count carbs, which should be lots of colorful fruits and veggies IMO.

I use the USDA Super Tracker to check the nutrient content of my meals since it lets me know if I reach the RDA for about 35 various vitamins, minerals, etc. I eat a completely natural diet without supplements. I just checked and my report says I eat 60% carbs. I never looked before because my magic numbers were 100% RDA of all of the vitamins and minerals in my foods. To me, that's much more important that assigning a number to carbs.

I eat about 6 cups of fruit and probably about 1.5 to 2 pounds of vegetables daily (rough guess). Organic oats every morning. Seafood at night, tofu and lentils in the day. I snack on kimchi and crispy seaweed. There's a liberal amount of sesame oil in my homemade salad dressing, but other than that I rarely add any fats to my diet. I occasionally add a smidgen of sugar or honey to recipes if they require it, but I'm careful how much I use and I never use anything artificial. There's sugar in my mirin, but I have no problem with that. I love exploring Korean and Japanese foods, although I leave out the rice. There's rice flour in my Korean red pepper paste, but I have no problem with that. The mere presence of starch or sugar has no effect on my weight, I just don't feel that it's calories well spent since it doesn't contain anything beneficial. Everything I eat is delicious and I'm never hungry.

With my history of cancer and a heart condition, I choose the foods that are most likely to help me live a long and healthy life. That's my only goal, and I believe that counting and limiting "carbs" would interfere with that goal. I don't see food in those terms, I try to look at the bigger picture. I'm not 100% perfectly on plan all the time, but I choose my indiscretions carefully. Life is for living :)

diamondgeog
02-15-2014, 09:13 AM
I don't count carbs or calories, I haven't had to. If I am eating whole unprocessed foods I don't have to. By all means should do what your body/mind needs works best on.

Fats seem to agree with me, for instance. Keep my body strong and losing weight. At the end of the day, Paleo, Vegan, something in between have a heck of a lot more in common with one another than the SAD does to either.

http://www.nomeatathlete.com/vegans-and-paleos/

diamondgeog
02-15-2014, 10:30 AM
My uncle, only 22 years older than me, has developed diabetes and dementia. He eat a lot of grains throughout his life and had a big belly just like me. Now I'll never know all the factors that contributed. But I don't, personally, want to mess with grains.

I've also heard, depending upon the source of fat, they can be very helpful for brain health. I've also heard on Pritikan many people get depression. But just like not all low carb is Atkins, I am sure not all low fat is Pritikan.

diamondgeog
02-15-2014, 11:13 AM
Pretty thought provoking article on fats. Everyone have a nice Presidents Day weekend.

http://articles.mercola.com/sites/articles/archive/2002/08/17/saturated-fat1.aspx

Suzanne 3FC
02-15-2014, 11:23 AM
I've also heard, depending upon the source of fat, they can be very helpful for brain health. I've also heard on Pritikan many people get depression. But just like not all low carb is Atkins, I am sure not all low fat is Pritikan.

Brain health is something I also worry about. A recent study of over 6000 women over the age of 65 showed that increased saturated fats caused faster cognitive decline. http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/22605573 There may be some benefits to including some saturated fats, but when I weigh the pros and cons and consider my personal health goals, I made the decision to exclude them. I'm just not comfortable with it. Btw, most of the sat fats eaten by the women in the study came from red meat and butter.

Regarding depression, there is a clear link between low carb diets and clinical depression. Several studies have shown that low carb can even be dangerous for many people with clinical depression. This may not occur to every low-carber, of course, but it happens frequently in those who are already prone to serotonin related depression. This happens because of the way the lack of carbs affects the production of serotonin in the brain. This can also result in mood swings, which is more common that depression in those that are affected by lack of carbs in this way. Many people get 'snippy' when they reduce carbs. Dr. Judith Wurtman published several studies about the connection between carbs and moods. That's why I mentioned in an earlier post that low-carb was not always a good idea for everyone.

diamondgeog
02-15-2014, 02:38 PM
One of the big problems in all of this are confounding factors. They really truly are confounding.

So for instance the China Study Forks over Knives uses thought to say hey its cholesterol or meat consumption or something for higher heart disease. But it used rural populations for one group and urban populations for another. So it could have been sedentariness, urban pollution, urban stress or just about anything accounting for what they found.

There are many studies that show heart disease has nothing to do with fat....except that cutting it out has been an awful idea for heart disease. Also with depression, many studies and people reporting depression on high carb diets.

So one of the things I try and do is look at the largest study at all, overall trends in America. So many confounding factors here that I am the first to admit this is not 'proof' of any sort.

But heart disease was much less in say 1920. What were people eating here? Butter and lard. What were they not eating? Margarine, corn oil, soybean oil, canola oil. So all other things being equal if I am concerned about my heart health, I am going to go with butter and in my case olive oil, flax seed oil for dressings, coconut oil, and I am looking into macadamia oil.

Fats from ruminants, especially if grass fed and organic seem to me to have been very healthy for human hearts for millennia after millennia.

This again is not causation. But I personally feel pretty solid about what people like Mary Enig, and far from just her, are saying about fats. Especially saturated fats. And knowing what I do now I would not touch the vegetable oils (corn, soybean, canola) and margarine as much as I can. Making eating out tougher, but that is probably a good thing.

Taking a break on posting for awhile. I have just been posting too much. I appreciate the points..I'll be back in a week or so. Have a good one everyone.

Suzanne 3FC
02-15-2014, 11:46 PM
But heart disease was much less in say 1920. What were people eating here? Butter and lard. What were they not eating? Margarine, corn oil, soybean oil, canola oil. So all other things being equal if I am concerned about my heart health, I am going to go with butter and in my case olive oil, flax seed oil for dressings, coconut oil, and I am looking into macadamia oil.

Ah, but in 1920, the average life expectancy was just 54 years. In 1900 it was just 46. Life expectancy has gradually increased over the decades and was 79 as of 1998. I would guess that there wasn't enough medical technology in 1920 to determine how many people had heart disease. Either you died of a heart attack or something else, but no one was getting echocardiograms :dizzy: Technology, along with accuracy, has gradually increased over the decades and allows a better view of our health now than what was once possible. We're also living longer, allowing us more time to build up the effects of our bad personal choices as well as environmental damage.

I'm with you on macadamia nut oil. It's the only type of oil that I have recommended to my own family. I think I mentioned that I use sesame oil in my salad dressing, which is there for flavor. If I were to need to cook in oil, I would use macadamia nut oil and I have some in my cabinet. Macadamia nut oil, IMO, is the best oil simply because of the ratio of Omega 6 to 3 fatty acids.

diamondgeog
02-15-2014, 11:59 PM
Good points on longevity, that's why I personally am not eating grains: they were really building up chronic bad health for me. Maybe no one else.

We are going to have to disagree about fats. I think we have gone drastically wrong demonizing saturated fat. Moderation is still important but I will take butter over margarine or the soy, corn, etc oils any day.

The other difficulty is we aren't testing for particle size with LDL. We also don't, I believe, need to go back to the 1920s. I find the trend of worse heart health ever since it became 'official' saturated fats were bad. Now you can say well the SAD is the worse, and whole foods more saturated fats is better, and whole foods less saturated fat is best. And I would say 2 and 3 are better than 1 for sure. And I am never eating sticks of butter, but I have a much more positive view of saturated fats than you do.


Super high burn point on macadamia oil also.

freelancemomma
02-26-2014, 04:28 PM
300 carbs would be about 60% of a 2000 calorie diet and would probably suit a healthy and active adult male.

I'm a healthy, moderately active 57-year-old female and that's exactly what I eat to maintain a 50-pound weight loss: 2,000 cals, 300 g carbs.

F.

diamondgeog
02-26-2014, 09:29 PM
That is fantastic it works for you. Great job losing and maintaining. For a lot of Americans eating 300 grams of carbs is resulting in them getting bigger and bigger and sicker and sicker.

My personal experience is that 300 grams of carbs a day was literally killing me. And keeping me completely famished and hungry all the time even though I was eating probably 1.5 to 2 times the calories I do now, and I feel no hunger. It was massively contributing to belly fat. Lowering carbs my belly has melted away and I am never hungry.

But source of carbs is key. I eat whole foods now and more veggies than I did before. People doing 'low carb' right probably eat a lot more veggies than the average American.

My blood work back in October was my best ever. I was a little low on HDL but I am sure that is through the roof now as I have incorporated many more saturated fats since then. I had to learn a lot beyond the conventional wisdom. I like almost everyone grew up with saturated fats are bad. The story behind how that became the story is mind blowing. I haven't read it, but a new book called Death By Food Pyramid is getting very good reviews.

BTW my wife just had her first blood work while on the same diet as me. It was AWESOME. A key marker for heart health is triglycerides to HDL level. She has a 78 triglycerides and a 60 HDL. Any ratio 2 and under is excellent. Hers is closer to 1 to 1.

By far her healthiest numbers ever. She is losing weight as well.

One of the key studies in all of this is that there is ZERO documented studies that saturated fat is bad for you.

And a 2010 study of 348,000 people showed no correlation between saturated fat and heart disease. http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/20071648

Since the 1970s at least America in general has replaced fats with carbs. And we replaced good saturated fats, grass fed butter, grass fed lard, coconut oil that are awesome for health with vegetable oils with high omega 6 ratios that have to be produced in industrial processes. Butter and lard are natural, at least if the animals are grass fed like they evolved to be fed, and coconut oil takes almost no processing to get out.

But don't take my word for it. If anyone reading this is using any kind of vegetable oil, and certainly margarine, it might be worthwhile to research them.