Atkins - Ketosis




View Full Version : Ketosis


wannaskipandlaugh
01-26-2014, 09:33 PM
Note... from Dr. Atkins NEW Diet Revolution (1992).. Chapter 9, "Fat is much more Ketosis-inducing than Protein..... To get into deep Ketosis, your ratio of Fat to Carbohydrate affects this. The higher the Fat intake -compared to Carbohydrates - the higher the Ketosis" Paraphrased it alittle... But interesting info!


Brooklynn
01-27-2014, 06:11 AM
This is so hard for my hubby to wrap his head around lol. He cant understand why I have been in ketosis for so long and hes hardly making the stick change color.

JerseyGyrl
01-27-2014, 07:26 AM
This is so hard for my hubby to wrap his head around lol. He cant understand why I have been in ketosis for so long and hes hardly making the stick change color.

Those sticks aren't a sure thing. I lost over 100 lbs and they never changed color for me.


Brooklynn
01-27-2014, 07:43 AM
I told him that same thing! because he was dropping weight like no ones business and his were a very light pink mine were always purple and though it came off it did so much slower! So I agree not a sure thing! but he always thought that if they weren't changing that the change in diet wasn't working so what the OP said wasn't true. You would think dropping 60 lbs would show him otherwise lol.

shr1nk1ngme
01-27-2014, 08:34 AM
I used to combine an ultra low-carb/low-calorie approach to weight loss, but in spite of that I never tested more than trace on ketostix. My metabolism is scary slow. I mean, my metabolism is so slow it should be physically impossible. I am one of those cases where doctors shake their heads and tell the patient they must be eating more than they think they are eating. Never mind that I measure and record every bite I put into my mouth and I deliberately underrate my exercise intensity. Especially as I approach my goal, according to my diet software, the only way I could get the expected weight loss numbers to jive with reality was to lower my calories to medical fast levels (<800 a day), input an age of 100 and an activity level of "Sleep, 24 hours". Only then did my actual weight loss line up with the projected weight loss. This, in spite of the fact that by the time I reached my goal I had been spending eight hours a week at the gym, plus walking an hour a day. It was a completely unsustainable lifestyle, both dietary and physical. Which said to me that there was something seriously wrong with my metabolism. I had medical tests done and they showed no thyroid problems or other imbalances.

I gained all the weight back (70 pounds) in two years.

Anyway, this time around, just like before, I went with low-carb/low-calorie. I started to add more protein to keep myself feeling full, but as I was trying to watch my calories I also was keeping my fat very, very low. But then, as before, I was not even getting a trace reading on the ketostix! So I decided to find out for sure what was going on with my ketones. I purchased a blood ketone monitor and guess what? I discovered that have a VERY hard time getting into ketosis. I mean, even with <15-20 carbs a day my blood ketones are just barely in the optimal range, and even then it's hit or miss. Even after a Down Day (a virtual fast day when all I eat is two eggs) my body is still manufacturing borderline high blood sugar (90-100) and producing only trace blood ketones. Which says to me that my metabolism would rather convert protein to glucose (gluconeogenesis) than burn fat. AHA! Now I understand why my metabolism keeps getting slower and slower and slower! The danger here is that by eating too much protein and not enough fat, I have been training my body to use protein as its primary energy source. Which means that when dietary protein is unavailable, as on my fast days, my body would then prefer to cannibalize its own muscle tissue rather than burn fat for fuel. My body has been ruining its own metabolism, because I trained it to do so.

This is why, after two months of strict induction combined with low-fat/calorie restriction/intermittent fasting, my blood sugar has still been testing relatively high (95-100) and my blood ketones have still been testing too low (.8 - 1.0). So last week I decided to REDUCE my dietary protein (which really was too high) and INCREASE my fat intake. For a low-calorie/low-fat/low-carb dieter this was a scary choice to make! I tested my blood after two days and there was a significant improvement (glucose 79, ketones 1.3). I test every two days so I will be retesting tomorrow morning to see if there is any additional improvement in my ketones. I want my stable blood glucose between 80-85 so 79 is a good reading.

And now we will see what happens to my weight loss.

Brooklynn
01-27-2014, 09:29 AM
I used to combine an ultra low-carb/low-calorie approach to weight loss, but in spite of that I never tested more than trace on ketostix. My metabolism is scary slow. I mean, my metabolism is so slow it should be physically impossible. I am one of those cases where doctors shake their heads and tell the patient they must be eating more than they think they are eating. Never mind that I measure and record every bite I put into my mouth and I deliberately underrate my exercise intensity. Especially as I approach my goal, according to my diet software, the only way I could get the expected weight loss numbers to jive with reality was to lower my calories to medical fast levels (<800 a day), input an age of 100 and an activity level of "Sleep, 24 hours". Only then did my actual weight loss line up with the projected weight loss. This, in spite of the fact that by the time I reached my goal I had been spending eight hours a week at the gym, plus walking an hour a day. It was a completely unsustainable lifestyle, both dietary and physical. Which said to me that there was something seriously wrong with my metabolism. I had medical tests done and they showed no thyroid problems or other imbalances.

I gained all the weight back (70 pounds) in two years.

Anyway, this time around, just like before, I went with low-carb/low-calorie. I started to add more protein to keep myself feeling full, but as I was trying to watch my calories I also was keeping my fat very, very low. But then, as before, I was not even getting a trace reading on the ketostix! So I decided to find out for sure what was going on with my ketones. I purchased a blood ketone monitor and guess what? I discovered that have a VERY hard time getting into ketosis. I mean, even with <15-20 carbs a day my blood ketones are just barely in the optimal range, and even then it's hit or miss. Even after a Down Day (a virtual fast day when all I eat is two eggs) my body is still manufacturing borderline high blood sugar (90-100) and producing only trace blood ketones. Which says to me that my metabolism would rather convert protein to glucose (gluconeogenesis) than burn fat. AHA! Now I understand why my metabolism keeps getting slower and slower and slower! The danger here is that by eating too much protein and not enough fat, I have been training my body to use protein as its primary energy source. Which means that when dietary protein is unavailable, as on my fast days, my body would then prefer to cannibalize its own muscle tissue rather than burn fat for fuel. My body has been ruining its own metabolism, because I trained it to do so.

This is why, after two months of strict induction combined with low-fat/calorie restriction/intermittent fasting, my blood sugar has still been testing relatively high (95-100) and my blood ketones have still been testing too low (.8 - 1.0). So last week I decided to REDUCE my dietary protein (which really was too high) and INCREASE my fat intake. For a low-calorie/low-fat/low-carb dieter this was a scary choice to make! I tested my blood after two days and there was a significant improvement (glucose 79, ketones 1.3). I test every two days so I will be retesting tomorrow morning to see if there is any additional improvement in my ketones. I want my stable blood glucose between 80-85 so 79 is a good reading.

And now we will see what happens to my weight loss.


I am thrilled for you that you have discovered the root of your problem. I have a feeling now that you have increased your dietary fat you will see those other numbers leveling out in the direction you desire. I say the first time I did atkins was in 2011 but really I tried it for an extended period in 2004/5 before I got married. I did the same thing because I could not wrap my head around fat being a good thing. I was so sick from forcing my body to use the least desirable method of fueling itself. I did lose weight but also a ton of muscle I could hardly lift my own son. I was on the verge of falling apart literally. So I went back to eating like crap lots of carbs, fat and so on. Funny enough I saw this as better for me than just eating high fat and low carb. Silly how my brain works. When I read the book and truly understood the reason for increasing fat in our diets when we decrease our carbs I tried it and BAM! I felt better, looked better, and my health was greatly improved! Not to mention that I am never hungry when I eat fats even in moderate amounts with out eating anything else. Of course I watch my health (cholesterol, sugar, and so on) but the way I feel when I live like this someone would be hard pressed to convince me this is not healthy!

calee
01-27-2014, 09:37 AM
Time around I am keeping my protein lower and my fat higher and it's working for me. It also helps me stay more satisfied between meals.

Kat117
01-27-2014, 03:50 PM
as long as the sticks are showing the smallest amount of ketones you are in ketosis. The darker the color is just showing that you are dehydrated, so hence it reads "more ketones" because your urine isn't diluted.

Please make sure to stay hydrated to keep any stress off your kidneys. Plus the more water you drink, the faster and easier it is for your body to flush out fat and toxins.

I must say though this is true! I was doing Ideal Protein which is very low fat and it would take me 4 or 5 days to get back into ketosis. Now doing atkins, if I keep it at less than 14 grams of carbs, enjoy a cheese and bacon omelet and a burger and salad I am in ketosis by the second evening.

Brooklynn
01-27-2014, 04:42 PM
Kat I don't mean this to sound rude but can I ask where you get that info from? I drink almost 12 8oz glasses of water or more each day and still get a dark purple and have no other signs of dehydration.

janie275
01-27-2014, 10:04 PM
In The Art and Science of Low Carbohydrate book by Jeff Volek, he claims that sticks can be darker purple from eating coconut oil, butter and cream. I'm sorry I do not have the page number.

sarahinparis
01-28-2014, 08:02 AM
From what I've read (actually what I remember of what I've read) the body makes 3 different types of ketones, and some people excrete more than others in the urine (it can also be found in the breath and blood). High ketone readings on the keto sticks show you are burning fat, but it could be dietary fat and not body fat (I.e. No guarantee of weight loss) and you can be in ketosis and never register on the sticks, as several people above suggest.

You wouldn't necessarily need to be dehydrated to show high readings - you could be a high producer of urinary ketones or could be overeating fat...

I don't know much about Ideal Protein but I do know that our bodies will convert excess protein to glucose - I've found keeping protein to around 65g a day helps me lose better... A google of Keto calculators can help you find the right number for your age/activity level and size...

Kat117
01-28-2014, 09:46 AM
Hi Brooklyn, you aren't being rude at all!

That is the information that I was given by my doctor's office, and it seems to get backed up when I don't drink my normal 120+ ounces of water the sticks are a bit darker then normal. I usually never turn them more than trace. Also when I was doing Ideal Protein, which is a ketogenic diet also, they said the same thing - could be that is what the coach heard from her doctor...

Of course, doctors have been known to be wrong :)

shr1nk1ngme
01-28-2014, 10:31 AM
From what I've read (actually what I remember of what I've read) the body makes 3 different types of ketones, and some people excrete more than others in the urine (it can also be found in the breath and blood). High ketone readings on the keto sticks show you are burning fat, but it could be dietary fat and not body fat (I.e. No guarantee of weight loss) and you can be in ketosis and never register on the sticks, as several people above suggest.

You wouldn't necessarily need to be dehydrated to show high readings - you could be a high producer of urinary ketones or could be overeating fat...

I don't know much about Ideal Protein but I do know that our bodies will convert excess protein to glucose - I've found keeping protein to around 65g a day helps me lose better... A google of Keto calculators can help you find the right number for your age/activity level and size...

THIS^^

I was eating too much protein and it was interfering with ketosis. Eating huge amounts of protein is OK if you are a bodybuilder, but otherwise it can be converted to glucose and POW you are no longer in ketosis. Take it from one who knows.

Yeah! Down another .8 to 156.4 today!

As for me, I think the higher fat/lower protein/light exercise combination is working. This morning my blood ketones tested at their highest yet (1.6 - FINALLY in the optimal range!) and my glucose was 89. Perfect! I am looking forward to my second UpDay with higher fat. I bought some really high quality full-fat cheeses and a block of Kerrygold butter. Drinking my bulletproof coffee right now. http://www.lowcarbfriends.com/bbs/images/smilies/yummy_2011.gif

BTW I have something to say about Kerrygold butter. As a long-time vegetarian, I have noticed that these days, (cheap, factory-farm produced) butter tastes like beef fat and not like a dairy product. Well, yesterday I had my first taste of Kerrygold butter and I have to say, it tastes like I remember butter tasting when I was a kid. Back when cows were raised on real farms and got to roam around in grassy fields.
http://www.lowcarbfriends.com/bbs/images/smilies/jump_joy_2011.gif
From the Kerrygold package: "In Ireland cows graze on the green pastures of small family farms. This milk is then churned to make Kerrygold butter."

I say YES to this farming model and I will gladly pay the difference. I wish our local farmers would also do this.

Kat117
01-28-2014, 11:43 AM
http://keto-calculator.ankerl.com/

One of the other posters had put up the link to this keto calculator and I have found it very helpful. According to this I should do 71 grams of protein a day.

calee
01-29-2014, 09:37 AM
Cheers for Kerrygold! I use their cheese and prefer their block of aged sharp cheddar cheese to any other. It has an incredible nutty flavor. I buy it t my local Costco. They also carry the butter.

I do find that regardless of the fat source, I shed pounds faster when the ketostix are darker.

Kat117
01-29-2014, 01:32 PM
hmmmm, interesting on the observations folks are having with the sticks. I wonder if I need to up my fat consumption to get more than just a trace.

calee
01-30-2014, 09:58 AM
Kat, this week I'm eating fat at around 60-70% but where last week I showed more keytones, this week it is just small amount. I haven't seen moderate since last week. Go figure, right? We are all so different, and I appear different from week to week!

shr1nk1ngme
01-30-2014, 10:22 AM
My (new) ratios keep coming out to 70/20/10 fat/protein/carbohydrate no matter how I adjust things around. I plan to keep tweaking the numbers until I can get an even more ideal balance. My goals are 80/15/5 but I am still eating relatively low calorie and I need to eat some veggies so keeping the carbs at 5% is pretty much impossible. I want to eat my broccoli or asparagus each day, and they have ("good") carbs in them. And I eat eggs every day so there is a bit of protein involved. Hmmm, I may be stuck at 70/20/10 for a while.

Anyway it seems to be working because I lost 2 more pounds in two days; down to 155. This morning my blood sugar was 85 (perfect) and my ketones were 1.2 (still a little too low. Grrr! :mad:) I think I'm gonna have to amp up the exercise a bit.

Kat117
01-31-2014, 11:12 AM
shr1nk1ngme - how did you find the ratio you should be eating? curious because I haven't been able to figure it out for myself and I have had a 2 week stall.

sarahinparis
01-31-2014, 03:01 PM
I use jenny Ruhl's calculator.

http://www.phlaunt.com/lowcarb/DietMakeupCalc.php

I should re-calculate, weight is a factor and I've lost over 35 pounds now.

Gender, age, activity level, carb intake all factor in. As does whether you're trying to maintain or lose, and lose at what pace...

She always advocates for moderate protein, which I do anyway.

It usually takes me several days to work out what I can eat to fit those targets - it's not automatic and requires tracking for a few days, but then I just get into the rhythm.

calee
02-01-2014, 11:05 AM
Using Jenny Ruhl's calculator, to shed 1 pound a week my calories need to be at 1,179. That's with 30 grams of carbs. It said Maintenance calories are 1679 but I gain weight at 1300 calories. So interesting!

shr1nk1ngme
02-01-2014, 02:09 PM
shr1nk1ngme - how did you find the ratio you should be eating? curious because I haven't been able to figure it out for myself and I have had a 2 week stall.

I used this Keto Calculator (it details your fat/protein/carb ratios for you):
http://keto-calculator.ankerl.com/

It allows you to customize your protein and carbs. I set my protein at a normal recommended amount (60g) and my carbs at Induction levels <20, and it tells me how much fat I should be eating. It's a very handy tool for a low-carb dieter.

Also I can't recommend enough getting a blood ketone monitor. There are currently only two blood monitors available over the counter which measure ketones. I bought them both! They are only about $20 for the monitor. One is better/more accurate than the other but the strips are harder to get/more expensive. I did eventually find a cheap source for the strips but I can't post it here. I had to order them from a Canadian pharmacy. There was no issue with customs because control strips are not a controlled substance.

Anyway, having an extremely accurate number for my blood ketones has proven invaluable in helping me iron out the nutritional wrinkles in my diet. The monitor helped me determine that I was eating too much protein and not enough fat. Actually the monitor basically told me that the Keto Calculator is SPOT ON as far as getting into ketosis. As long as I adhere to the ratio recommended by the Keto Calculator, my blood ketones stay in the optimal range.