General Diet Plans and Questions - Intuitive Eating #19




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carolr3639
01-21-2014, 08:21 PM
Southern Maven reminded me to start a new thread since were over 500 posts.


carolr3639
01-21-2014, 08:26 PM
Once again.

A repeat that helps me.

This is a guest post written by Skwigg. This girl is a walking dictionary of food and nutrition facts, has read and tried MULTIPLE fitness plans, and every time I check, she’s read another “hot of the press” diet book. And, she tells it like it is.

skwigg

Well, it took like 25 years of trial and error, but I am a happy eater. I follow no rules. I count no calories. I’m completely over nutrient ratios, meal timing and measuring cups. Plus, as an added bonus, I’m not fat. Any time I’ve flirted with this “intuitive eating” stuff before, I’ve quickly become too fat for my little pants. This time I’m gradually losing. I’m 5’8″ and weigh 135-137 most days. I don’t know my percentage of body fat. It’s possible that I’m losing muscle and brains. I’m not concerned enough to get out the calipers. My Tanita scale tells me that I’m between 14% and 24% body fat. Helpful, eh? It’s like asking a Magic 8 Ball. The readout may as well say “Concentrate and ask again.” Or “Signs point to yes.” All I know is that my yoga pants are loose! Woohoo!

So, why did intuitive eating work this time when it’s destroyed my abs so many times before? I’ve been trying to figure that out. I know that in the past I’ve used intuitive eating as an excuse to binge. I’d turn to it after a bout of really restrictive dieting, or when I couldn’t face my nutrition software, or when I wasn’t accountable to a trainer. My “intuition” would tell me to eat boxes of glazed donuts and sheets of cookies. I’d gain weight, scoff at the total lameness of this “embrace your inner cow” intuitive hoody-hoo, and go right back to obsessive dieting, tracking and measuring. I wrote down every single thing I ate or drank for TWO YEARS. That was not fun, and actually not helpful.

I’m more relaxed now. I don’t make food decisions from a place of frustration and panic. My intuition really likes strawberries. I eat chocolate every day. I like bagels. I like to eat out. I’m not limiting myself to dieter food but I’m very aware of portions. I eat one Cadbury Egg, not six. I eat mini-bagels, not those bakery bagels the size of my head. I understand that a typical restaurant serving is enough to feed four people.

Last time I tried intuitive eating, portion control was my downfall. I believed those books that said to eat as many cookies as I wanted and that eventually I wouldn’t want as many. Right!! Weeks later, I still wanted every cookie that had ever been baked. I was reeling out of control on a blood sugar rollercoaster. The more junk I ate, the more junk I wanted. I was never able to pull it together enough to even maintain my weight, much less lose.

Some things that really helped me this time:

- I weigh myself every day. If you’re not going to count calories or measure your food, you’d better be keeping an eye on something. It could be weight, waist measurement, a caliper pinch, a pair of jeans, but you need some kind of objective feedback. If you choose not to track your food and not to look at any of your measurements, then you’d better go buy some fat pants.

- I eat what I want but I always control portions. Generally, the more I want something, the more I need to watch out. I can play fast and loose with spinach but I’d better take my ice cream in a single-serving container.

- I share. I never used to share before. Sharing is the greatest thing ever! You get to eat whatever you want and make everyone around you fat. Try it! Order the double-fudge super cookie dough caramel delight. Eat three bites and watch your dining companions devour the rest of it like hungry hyenas. Share your French fries. Split the sandwich. Order three tacos and only eat one of them. It’s exhilarating! Plus, I always have great leftovers.

- I strike a nice balance of healthy food and treats. You can’t eat an all-treat diet and look or feel very good. I eat loads of fresh fruits and vegetables every day. I love whole grains. I eat nuts and seeds like I’m a squirrel. I’m a sucker for a big salad. I enjoy lean protein as long as it’s not forced upon me every 2-3 hours. I eat a lot of healthy whole foods but I like to add a Pop Tart or Reese’s Peanut Butter Cup for good measure.

- I don’t eat six times per day, or three times per day, or three meals and two snacks. I don’t follow anybody else’s rules because how does the book or the calculator know what I’m doing or when I’m going to be hungry? It doesn’t. So, I eat when I feel like it. On an active, hungry day I might eat 5-6 times. On a lazy day with restaurant food, I might eat 2-3 times. I’m no longer dumb enough try to force three more meals after lunch at The Cheesecake Factory.

- I grasp the importance of good nutrition. I’m not knocking diet plans or nutrition programs, especially if you’re trying to achieve a sports performance or body comp goal. A little bit of structure can be good. I base my eating on the healthy principles I’ve learned but I don’t allow myself to become a slave to the details. And don’t believe that I can eat as many cookies as I want and still lose weight. Big derrrr there!

- I flow. That’s significant because I used to battle. I battled my weight. I struggled with willpower. I waged a war against fat. I fought with the numbers. I kicked myself when I slipped. My mindset was one big bloody massacre. My fitness goals were always at odds with what I really wanted, which was to relax and eat Cheetos. Now, if I want to relax and eat Cheetos, I do so immediately. No struggle. No stress. No guilt. I know that for my next meal I’ll choose something a little more ab-friendly.

Locke
01-21-2014, 08:53 PM
Woohoo! I'm glad to be on at the beginning of one of these. :)


SouthernMaven
01-22-2014, 08:15 AM
Carol - thanks for the new thread and for the post by Skwigg. Every time I read it I get re-inspired!

I've read about 2/3 of Overcoming Overeating. (Hirschmann, Munter) I wasn't super-thrilled about the first third of the book, as there's too much analysis in there. But Phase 2 - Feeding Yourself is excellent! Lots of interesting ideas in there I'd not seen elsewhere. And what I didn't see was any real emphasis on how to determine "hunger/fullness" cues. I'm sure it's mentioned along the way, but not to any great extent. It might show up in Phase 3, but I rather doubt it as it is called Finding Yourself. I think the part is likely more about dealing with food obsession.

So even if I don't care for Phase 1 OR Phase 3, Phase 2 was worth the read. If you can get it at your local library I'd go that route. Unfortunately it wasn't even in the card catalog of my county library, which is surprising, as it is a very large system. I had no problem getting Intuitive Eating there; they had lots of copies of that.

Liliann
01-22-2014, 10:52 AM
Maven....Overcoming Overeating book I have and a Great read..I always had re-read so many times that how I loved it so much..Now its buried in my bookshelf and I agree, Its an eye opener! Happy Reading!!

Have a great day all...

SouthernMaven
01-22-2014, 12:20 PM
Maven....Overcoming Overeating book I have and a Great read..I always had re-read so many times that how I loved it so much..Now its buried in my bookshelf and I agree, Its an eye opener! Happy Reading!!

Have a great day all...

Thanks Liliann!

Have you read The Overfed Head? Would love your opinion about that one. It's still my favorite. :)

Liliann
01-22-2014, 03:50 PM
Carol...Great article..and so True!! Thank you for sharing!

Maven...Since I had brought Overeating book a few years back..I made myself a promises never purcashed anymore reading materials...But have heard Overfed Fred on here and heard it was good.

Chardonnay
01-22-2014, 04:03 PM
What a great post by skwigg. You know, I used to live that way in my early 20's, I just went with it. Maybe I'm too technical about everything. This is definitely something to think about. What book would anyone suggest as a first reading on the subject?

Locke
01-22-2014, 04:24 PM
What a great post by skwigg. You know, I used to live that way in my early 20's, I just went with it. Maybe I'm too technical about everything. This is definitely something to think about. What book would anyone suggest as a first reading on the subject?

The favorite around here is The Overfed Head. You can find a free pdf version if you google the title plus "pdf".

Chardonnay
01-22-2014, 04:26 PM
Thanks Locke, just found it.

CindySunshine
01-22-2014, 05:06 PM
Hello everyone! I'm new here, but have been reading posts for several days and since I am very interested in the intuitive eating topic decided to get an id and post.

I'm from Illinois, spent my whole life there. I have been married for 38 years and have two wonderful grown sons, 27 and 30. I hit the big 6-0 in 2013 and retired from a challenging career at the end of the year. So it's been a very busy but exciting change of pace in the past weeks.

I have never been terribly overweight but I'm one or those people who have always yo-yo'd up and down 10-12 pounds. It is one of those incredibly frustrating things I simply have never been able to get past. I read the Tribole book 15 years ago and related to so much of it and honestly have incorporated most things into my life much or the time. BUT I forever get stressed and overwhelmed and rather rebellion snack and can quickly put those pounds on. Then I get motivated and eat very intuitively and exercise and feel just wonderful. I haven't been able to kick the cycling though and by now you would think I could have figured it out.

I now have a lot more time and less to overwhelm me. We got a 2nd home in Florida and I've been here since the beginning of January generally detoxing from Christmas and flushing out with loads of fruits and veggies and generally healthy meals. The weather is great and I have been walking a ton and just joined a fitness center down the street. They do yoga and Pilates and it's very convenient.

I downloaded the Tribole book to my kindle and read it again and I'm about halfway through the Overfed Head PDF. When I am "on" I just feel so wonderful my energy is up and I honestly feel like I'm there and swear I will never ever go out of the pattern. But usually after 6 months I start to just snack and pretty soon it all goes and then I get those pounds back and have to start again.

My plan is to try really really hard to stop and be intuitive all the time.

Right now I am writing down what I eat as it helps me break out of the nibbling thing but I want to stop that soon. I never weigh myself anymore after I read the book so many years ago but I can certainly tell by the fit of my clothes where I am.

Anxious to read some more and learn from all of you. :)

Liliann
01-22-2014, 05:58 PM
Hello and Welcome Cindy....Good luck with your efforts...YOU can do this!!

Mad Donnelly
01-22-2014, 07:19 PM
Overfed Head is really a qood, quick read, too.

I wish I had understood the concept of intuitive eating a long time ago. And I hope I really understand it now. I really want to eventually eat like a "thin person".

mlroman
01-22-2014, 08:44 PM
Hi everyone. =) Welcome, Cindy!

I'm still where I was last time I checked in, and that's kind of tough. I'm not losing, not gaining, not not-eating when I'm not hungry but being much better about not stuffing myself. Half of me wants to say this is a step in the process, while another part says that's a cop-out and I'm doing nothing and trying to pass it off as IE. BUT I remind myself what Maven said about if you're not gaining, you're probably doing better than you think. And the post that Carol copied above, where the writer talks about getting too big for her pants on several early tries, sees to echo that. So I think I need to give myself a break, and realize if I need to rest a while at not-dieting but not-really-eating-intuitively-yet, that's perfectly valid as a step.

Other hand (and oddly, considering the low and sub-zero temps lately have me wanting to sleep 16 hours a day), I'm really enjoying the exercise I started nearly 3 weeks ago - I've only missed one or two days altogether. I look forward to the Classical Stretch each day, I'm doing relaxing meditation and slow tai-chi-ish dvds each evening to help me sleep well, and I'm looking at attempting to start T-Tapp (no promises on how that'll go yet).

So... yeah. :shrug: That's the whatwhat here and now.

mlroman
01-23-2014, 07:05 AM
Just to double-check and confirm to myself that I'm not assuming I'm not gaining weight when in fact I am, I stepped on the scale this morning. Last time was about 3 weeks ago, before I started the exercise program. Even before I stepped, I started justifying. If I gained a couple, it was just part of this IE process. It was because I gained a bit of muscle. It was just a natural fluctuation...

I'm either the same or down one pound since last time I weighed. My scale isn't precise enough to say for sure. Either way, I can rest assured I'm not in denial whilst gaining at a serious clip-clop. Yay!

One weighing a month or so is probably a good idea. Just to make sure I'm not going too far out-of-bounds.

SouthernMaven
01-23-2014, 09:35 AM
But usually after 6 months I start to just snack and pretty soon it all goes and then I get those pounds back and have to start again.

My plan is to try really really hard to stop and be intuitive all the time.

Welcome Cindy! I'm 62, and I can relate to a lot of what you wrote.

I wish I'd learned about IE years ago, although for 20 years of my adult life (28-48) I was a normal weight and ate intuitively. I'd lost a lot of weight when I had my first child due to being extremely sick and it just never came back until menopause, when I started DIE-TING again. Should have left well enough alone.

Started IE in March of last year but like you said, it's easy to slip in and out of it. So I've started over this year and am going to try very hard to stay focused on the IE principles.

It really is a process, and even though when people first start out they THINK they get it - seems simple enough, huh? - it's quite difficult to let go of familiar ways of eating.

Glad to have you here!

SouthernMaven
01-23-2014, 09:36 AM
Maven....Overcoming Overeating book I have and a Great read..I always had re-read so many times that how I loved it so much..Now its buried in my bookshelf and I agree, Its an eye opener! Happy Reading!!

Have a great day all...

Liliann - I'm sure you caught the posts after this one, but you can download the free pdf of Overfed Head. Just google Overfed Head pdf and it will come right up. You'll have to read it online as you can't print it out, but it is a very easy read!

SouthernMaven
01-23-2014, 09:52 AM
I'm not losing, not gaining, not not-eating when I'm not hungry but being much better about not stuffing myself. Half of me wants to say this is a step in the process, while another part says that's a cop-out and I'm doing nothing and trying to pass it off as IE.

Just like when people go on a DIE-T, they are rarely perfect - and when they are, it inevitably leads to binging, or at the very least, chucking the diet altogether.

So it is with IE, but unlike a DIE-T, when we eat to satisfy mouth hunger or eat more than we should at a sitting, it's just not a big deal. It IS part of the process of learning how to listen to our bodies. I think the fact that you haven't gained is WONDERFUL...many times people do gain initially. And unfortunately that's what frustrates them and they then often decide IE doesn't work and they start the restrict/binge cycle all over again.

In The Overfed Head Rob Stevens discusses why it is so important to eat and not try to restrict in any way so that our bodies can "reset" themselves. Most people trying IE for the first time have been dieting so long that their bodies aren't used to normal eating. Sometimes gaining weight is a part of that process. I do think when people start losing very quickly then that's an indication of them still restricting, although there may be some cases where it's a normal reaction. Generally speaking, weight loss is almost imperceptible. But it's permanent, provided one continues to eat intuitively.

Liliann
01-23-2014, 03:45 PM
Maven...Thanks...I downloaded it and read it a few..Everyone has different views on this. I grown into this and acting on it. It works for me..There is one fitness guru who used to be Oprah's trainer, I forgot his name, but his book called Best Life, his method is based on IE.

Overcoming Overeating is my IE bible!! and knowing that diets do not work and used to read plenty of Geenen Roth books as well that helped me.

Now am doing great and am eating healthy, most of the time and staying active! :)

pattygirl63
01-23-2014, 08:00 PM
Hi Guys,

I haven't been saying anything because I had to work at getting my blood sugar under control. I decided to start doing Weight Watcher's Point Plus just to get my portions under control. I haven't lost any weight and I really think I could do Simply Filling WW plan better, but I'm not ready to do that yet. I have got to get it into my head that portions are important so I don't overeat. Example the new Smart Start plan says you don't have to count points... you just eat more of the foods they have on a Power Foods list and eat as much as you need to be satisfied. It would fit perfectly into the Intuitive Eating principles. I have absolutely no problem with the any of the foods on that list. In fact, most of the foods that I like are on that list, but I know from my years of doing IE that if you let me have whole wheat/grain pasta and tell me I can eat as much as I need to satisfy me that I could sit and eat a whole big bowl of it because taste more than hunger comes into play with that food.

I have not lost weight, but my blood sugar reading is coming down. I know weight loss isn't supposed to be what it is all about, but I really want to get some of this weight off because that will help keep the blood sugar under control. So today I decided that I will continue to use my IE principles of eating in my WW plan. If I'm hungry, I will eat what I want and count the points it is worth, but I'm not going to get hung up on eating all my points. I exercise a lot to earn extra points so I don't think I need to worry about the days I go over the points because I will be able to use those points if I run out of my weekly points. I do not want to get back into the habit of eating just to use points that someone else has decided that they thing I need to eat, but I do want to use some of their tools to get my eating under control.

Most of us Americans do not know what a normal portion of food is. We have been conditioned to think that "huge" amounts of food is a normal portion. I recently learned that I can make myself a breakfast of 1 egg, 1 sl of bacon or whatever meat and 1 slice of toast with my coffee and be just as satisfied as if I had eaten double that. I can eat what I want, eat less and be just as satisfied as if I ate more. Another example, I make my oatmeal when I have it. I know a serving is 1/2 c uncooked, but that is too much for me so I make 1/4 of a cup. I don't use a whole serving of the yogurt I put in it or a whole cup of fruit. I have decided it is my way of eating and I don't have to eat a whole serving of food just because it is listed.

I really believe that if I can learn how to eat healthy and eat sensibly by using the Points system then I can eventually move to the Simply Filling plan and slide back into strictly IE without counting anything. It is just learning how to do the so that the exercising and healthy eating become a habit so that it becomes something I do so well that it becomes second nature to me so that I will automatically eat this way without even thinking about it.

I've been doing this for about a month... started right after Christmas because I wanted to lose the weight I gained during the holidays. I lost the water weight and then gained back and have now weighed the same for 3 weeks with only a 4.5 weight loss for the month. So nothing is happening weight wise for now, but evidently there are healthy things going on since the blood sugar has come down considerably although not normal yet.

I haven't been here in a while because I technically I am on a diet although I am basically doing it Intuitively. I've decided that IE is a constant learning experience. I've learned there are some foods that some people even diabetics can eat that I can and vice versa. So this is my journey of making IE my way of eating. So if it is okay, I would love to continue to be a part of this group.

CindySunshine
01-23-2014, 08:16 PM
Hey guys has anybody read The Thin Woman's Brain by Dilia Suriel? I was able to "borrow" it with my Amazon Prime on my Kindle but it spends most of the book focused on how to deal with non physical hunger response which in the end is my long term issue. When I'm relaxing without stress it's easy to eat intuitively and I love to cook and pretty tables and inviting meals are my cup of tea so that part is easy. Anyway still reading and feel like this will take a 2nd read later but it's interesting and and addresses my big gaps.

Btw I made a wonderful coconut chicken soup today it was exactly what I wanted and boy was it satisfying. I just love that feeling.

pattygirl63
01-23-2014, 11:32 PM
Hey guys has anybody read The Thin Woman's Brain by Dilia Suriel? I was able to "borrow" it with my Amazon Prime on my Kindle but it spends most of the book focused on how to deal with non physical hunger response which in the end is my long term issue. When I'm relaxing without stress it's easy to eat intuitively and I love to cook and pretty tables and inviting meals are my cup of tea so that part is easy. Anyway still reading and feel like this will take a 2nd read later but it's interesting and and addresses my big gaps.

Btw I made a wonderful coconut chicken soup today it was exactly what I wanted and boy was it satisfying. I just love that feeling.

I never heard of soup made with coconut. Do you have a recipe or did you make it up yourself? I love foods cooked with coconut and the coconut is so good for you that I'd love to know how to use it in a soup. Thanks.

CindySunshine
01-24-2014, 08:55 AM
Maven for what it's worth I read IE so long ago but still don't have it figured out!

Patty, here's a link for a recipe but do a search and you will find dozens of versions online.

I used to actually have a pot of lemon grass growing for Thai cooking I like it a lot, but this time I just left it out. I used a can of chicken broth, most of a can of light coconut milk (the light works fine tastes excellent I had used 1/3 cup for another recipe dumped in what was left), juice from a small key lime, a T of Thai fish sauce ( sounds gross but don't leave it out you can buy it at any grocery store), tsp or to taste soy sauce, a small 3.5 ounce package of shiitake mushrooms, stems removed and sliced, small piece of diced jalapeŮo however much you want but the heat is good, dash of Thai chili oil(which you could leave out), and you just dice up a chicken breast and toss it in let it cook with the soup, green onions diced on top at the end and I had a little fresh parsley. I added it up for the heck of it and it's less than 200 calories a serving I got 3 servings out of this recipe, and ok don't worry about the calories but the point is it is delicious and not a bit heavy.

CindySunshine
01-24-2014, 08:58 AM
Let me try that again I guess you can't put in links...is it ok to stick a recipe in this thread? If not I won't do it again!!

yield:
Serves 6
ingredients
2 14-ounce cans light unsweetened coconut milk*
3 cups canned chicken broth
2 cups thinly sliced mushrooms
6 tablespoons finely chopped lemongrass*
1/4 cup fish sauce (nam pla)*
2 tablespoons minced fresh ginger
1 serrano chili, sliced into rounds
2 teaspoons chili-garlic sauce*
8 skinless boneless chicken thighs, thinly sliced
1/2 cup thinly sliced green onions
1/4 cup thinly sliced basil
3 tablespoons fresh lime juice

*Available at Asian markets and many supermarkets across the country.
preparation
Combine first 8 ingredients in large saucepan. Bring to boil. Reduce heat; cover and simmer 10 minutes to blend flavors. Add chicken; simmer until cooked through, about 5 minutes. Mix in green onions, basil and lime juice..

pattygirl63
01-24-2014, 12:03 PM
CindySunshine Thanks for the recipes. I will definitely be trying these. I love soups and homemade are the best.

Beverlyjoy
01-25-2014, 03:29 PM
Hi folks.... I am interested in Intuitive Eating. I've been trying to feel hunger. I think the hunger thing is 'broken' - but, I am working on it. I've started to eat and follow each bite down to my tummy. I think it will help me feeling food down there and fullness, too.

Reading the past threads have been helpful. It's really hard to get the to think that I can really eat what I want. I do know... I can get carried away easily on certain foods. I will have to be careful.

I have the books Intuitive Eating, Overfed Head, 50 Ways to Soothe Yourself Without Food and I Can Make You Thin. I haven't read them all. Bits and pieces from them.

I thought about EI once before... but, couldn't wrap my head around it../ especially when I am stressed. I think I am ready to try again.

CindySunshine
01-25-2014, 09:29 PM
Welcome and so glad you are here Beverlyjoy. I sure think when you are so done with DIE-Ts this is the place to be. One day at a time and a lot of introspection is a good place to start.

I have a couple positive experiences to report. First off I am making a conscious effort to eat slower and savor the bites, the idea of taking a breath between bites is useful to me and certainly extended my soup lunch to double the time and pleasure it would have normally been.

And then driving back from my sister's house I was on this stretch of road with few dining options. It was almost noon and I'd had just fruit and coffee before I left was about 2 hours from home and thought I'd wait to eat til I arrived but darn it I was hungry and McDonalds was honestly the only option. I am not a fast food person at all either, but I did the drive through and ordered a small hamburger and decided I would make it last I mean I had over an hour to go and I just had a bite at a time and you know it was remarkably satisfying. The coffee drink I ordered without syrups I know had some kind of sweetening in it and I just quit drinking the darn thing and threw it out I don't like sweet in hot coffee at all. Anyway it felt sort of liberating and very intuitive. :)

Thousandsunny
01-26-2014, 09:08 AM
Hi everyone,
Like Beverlyjoy, I'm new to the idea of IE. I've actually never heard of it until here and I'm very interested in seeing if it will work for me. I took the advice of some posters above and got Overfed Head on PDF and I'll check that out!
But what, really, is IE? Can someone explain it like I'm five?

SouthernMaven
01-26-2014, 09:18 AM
Welcome back, Trish! So glad to see you posting again.

You definitely have to take care of health issues. I think IE can work along with any type of dietary restriction you may have due to health concerns.

Welcome, Beverlyjoy and Thousandsunny.

Thousandsunny, read over the Overfed Head and I think it will give you a great explanation of what Intuitive Eating is (and what it isn't). In a nutshell, with IE you:

Eat ONLY when you're hungry
Stop when satisfied
Eat what you want, not what you think you should eat
Savor your food & eat without distraction

Cindy, your McDonald's experience was perfect! Just exactly what IE is all about. I always keep in mind, if I am truly hungry, just about anything will satisfy my hunger. And when you're really hungry, EVERYTHING tastes better!

SouthernMaven
01-26-2014, 09:19 AM
Here's a really wonderful video I wanted to share:

http://youtu.be/JQ4lcd7IQe4

Beverlyjoy
01-26-2014, 09:52 AM
Hi folks... thanks for the nice welcome.

Last night I finished reading the Overfed Head. I think he has explained it - now I need to transfer to my brain to figure out how I do it.

One thing he said that jumped out at me is when starting IE - it's like taking a leap of faith. I think that sounds about right.

I've been doing EI for four days. Two nights ago I ate a piece of bacon with no guilt. It felt so good. That's not all I ate... but, I included it in my dinner.

BTW - I am 61 --- almost 62! Southern Maiden... how about that.;)

pattygirl63
01-26-2014, 05:01 PM
MavenThanks for the welcome back and for the shared youtube show. It really says it all doesn't it?

Thousandsunny and BeverlyJoy WELCOME!!! So glad that you joined us.

Cindy I love the way you handled your eating while traveling. Good job.

I am enjoying eating what I want and enjoying it even while using the WW pts system. However, my problem (my reason for using WW Pts+ woe) at this point is the portions. This is only because I actually love the taste of some foods and can't always tell if I'm really hungry or if I just want more of the taste. Since I have a tendency to overeat foods because of my love of the taste, I have been making myself wait about 15 minutes to see if I am really hungry or if I just want the taste. It really helps me because I know I can have it if I'm really hungry for it, but most of the time I find that by waiting a bit the desire goes away. I am trying my best to learn the difference in the feeling of "true" hunger and "just the desire" for taste since I seem to have lost the ability to know the difference. However, I am quite sure it can be learned again.

I still believe the IE is the best way to eat. I've done it before in my life when I was thin and I'm determined to do it again.

CindySunshine
01-26-2014, 06:13 PM
Maven I can't see that video! It says it is blocked in my country? Weird?

mlroman
01-26-2014, 06:33 PM
That is a fantastic video, Maven! Thanks for sharing it!

Welcome, new friends! =)

SouthernMaven
01-26-2014, 08:37 PM
Maven I can't see that video! It says it is blocked in my country? Weird?

Cindy, I don't have any idea why it's blocked. Last time I checked, Florida was still part of the U.S. :D

May have something to do with your browser; I don't know. If you go to YouTube, search STOP DIETING and it's the first video that shows up on the playlist.

Beverlyjoy
01-27-2014, 06:55 AM
Hi. Well I 'made it through' an impromptu dinner out with neighbors for dinner. I wanted the pulled pork but thought I ought to get the grilled chicken. However, I went with the pulled pork and it was delicious. I tried hard to feel fullness. I didn't eat all the bun - (typical white bread bun).... had a some fries, one onion ring, a few tortilla chips. It was delicious. No guilt - but, still not all comfortable with it.

Southern Maven - thanks for the link to the video. It was good.

That's all for now. Thanks.

CindySunshine
01-27-2014, 07:44 AM
Excellent Beverley the right way to do it for sure. Now to string those experiences together and feel how great that will be.

I had a similar experience a few night ago where I have been really craving pizza and I was tempted to get the simple broiled fish which I really love but I have been eating constantly and keeping pizza on the back burner and I ordered pizza, had two fabulous slices, shared two more with the table, and brought the other 4 home. If they get eaten here so be it and if they don't that's ok too.

My biggest problem is PATIENCE. I know for sure if I keep doing this the rest of my life I will eventually be in a good place but right now I'd like to lose some weight and get my clothes fitting. A big negative trigger for me is going shopping and trying things on that just don't fit or look the way I want them to and then I go home and eat potato chips. So I am working on that. The easiest is to simply not go shopping but that doesn't address the issue.

Incidentally I figured out the video is not available on iPad platform or my android phone which are my only two options to connect at the moment at least I understand why I'm blocked.

SouthernMaven
01-27-2014, 11:28 AM
My biggest problem is PATIENCE. I know for sure if I keep doing this the rest of my life I will eventually be in a good place but right now I'd like to lose some weight and get my clothes fitting. A big negative trigger for me is going shopping and trying things on that just don't fit or look the way I want them to and then I go home and eat potato chips. So I am working on that. The easiest is to simply not go shopping but that doesn't address the issue.

I know that feeling, Cindy. But I actually went and bought a bunch of new clothes the other day because I needed them soooo badly, and I was not only surprised at how much better it made me feel but also that even at this weight I was able to find really flattering clothes. They fit well and I was able to find clothes that minimize my bad areas, so I feel good when I wear them out.

Incidentally I figured out the video is not available on iPad platform or my android phone which are my only two options to connect at the moment at least I understand why I'm blocked.

That makes sense. Mystery solved. :)

I want to post this video to every doggone thread in this forum. But that would probably get me banned. :( (and I wouldn't blame the moderators if they did)

I get sooo frustrated reading the "Introductions" thread. Over, and over, and over, and over again people come back saying "Here I am again" and relating their tales of woe about losing lots of weight only to gain it back - sometimes more than once. Either that, or that they've tried to diet and just can't get it to work, period. I want to direct every one of them to this thread, but I know I can't.

I see people posting here that have been here 10 years or longer and STILL haven't lost the weight (or have lost it and regained it). As we all know, that is the NORM and not the exception. The exception are the long-term maintainers, and they are very, very rare.

pattygirl63
01-27-2014, 12:22 PM
Beverlyjoy Thanks for sharing. That is what IE is all about... eating what you want and not what you think you should eat. I applaud you for making the IE choice rather than the "dieter" choice. My Mama used to say that if you don't eat what you really want then you will end up eating loads of other foods you don't want because you never get satisfied until you eat what you really want.

As I said, I'm using WW Pts + to learn portion control, but I didn't realize that I was falling into a "diet" mindset until I read your post Beverly. Today is DH and my anniversary. We are going out to eat and I had already made my plans for what I'm going to eat today, but I had planned on what I thought I should eat and not on what I want to eat. After reading your post, I will definitely eat what I really want. After all, this is a celebration of 11 yrs with my sweetheart. So thanks again for sharing.

You know I will have to watch to be sure that WW doesn't change what I've gained as an Intuitive Eater. I may have to switch to Simply Filling Plan instead of using the Points Plus Plan since it fits into IE better. Will have to see how that goes or maybe by the time my 3 month membership is over, I might not have to use it at all.

Maven Are the other "stop dieting" youtube info helpful? I hadn't thought of checking out youtube. Thanks for sharing.

SouthernMaven
01-27-2014, 12:41 PM
Beverlyjoy

Maven Are the other "stop dieting" youtube info helpful? I hadn't thought of checking out youtube. Thanks for sharing.

I had actually seen that video elsewhere but wanted to find the link to share it, so I googled its title on YouTube and that's how I found it there. I did watch a few of the others that came up (wow! lots of people on the IE bandwagon out there, all with their own particular take in it) and for the most part I didn't get anything new out of them. I just liked that one because I think it makes people really think about why diets don't work & is probably particularly effective for long-term dieters who have just had their fill of it.

I found it particularly interesting that it said women stop dieting at the average age of 64. I stopped at 61, and I'm not even a lifetime dieter, having been thin for a large portion of my adult life.

pattygirl63
01-27-2014, 02:08 PM
I found it particularly interesting that it said women stop dieting at the average age of 64. I stopped at 61, and I'm not even a lifetime dieter, having been thin for a large portion of my adult life.

I find that really interesting since I'm 70. I will definitely be reading more on it. You know The Daniel Plan that I've been reading by Rick Warren and Drs. Hyman and Amen and it is based mostly on eating healthy with a "plate" diagram with no calorie counting etc. Just eat until you are satisfied. I feel that I will eventually get more comfortable with that way of eating again as that is the way I ate when I was young and every time I have been thin. Thanks for sharing.

pattygirl63
01-27-2014, 10:11 PM
Went to eat at KFC. Had the crispy dark meat plate with green beans and mashed potatoes with gravy. DH and I told the lady I didn't want the roll, but she put it on the plate any way, but neither one of us wanted it so we threw it out. Totally enjoyed it and no guilt.

Went shopping and got healthy foods that I will enjoy eating without any guilt. Letting IE be my guide as I do this and I think it will become a habit.

SouthernMaven
01-27-2014, 11:12 PM
Went to eat at KFC. Had the crispy dark meat plate with green beans and mashed potatoes with gravy. DH and I told the lady I didn't want the roll, but she put it on the plate any way, but neither one of us wanted it so we threw it out. Totally enjoyed it and no guilt.

Went shopping and got healthy foods that I will enjoy eating without any guilt. Letting IE be my guide as I do this and I think it will become a habit.

Sounds great, Trish! Glad you enjoyed that meal - that's what IE is all about. No restrictions other than you eat ONLY when hungry. That seems reasonable, right? ;-)

SouthernMaven
01-27-2014, 11:13 PM
A sneak preview of the February 3, 2014 issue of Time Magazine:

http://content.time.com/time/magazine/article/0,9171,2163560,00.html

Looks very interesting....

CindySunshine
01-28-2014, 05:11 AM
VERY interesting on the Time cover, Maven. I read some place they are going to start teaching kids mindfulness in school I wonder if they could get 16 year olds to see the light with a life ahead of them. I sure agree that something has to give I said that 35 years ago when I was raising kids, both working busy careers that it just didn't seem like a sustainable way for humans to live but it has gotten worse not better.

Patty glad you ENJOYED your KFC! I think the tendency would have been what the heck I'm eating here anyway so the plate plus the biscuit and do they have dessert, too? Good job. I know it's essential to keep feeding real hunger to make it all work and not cling to the diet stuff and stopping at some WW point or calorie limit. I have still been tracking what I eat to get out of the snacking habit but I plan to stop that entirely in a couple weeks and use internal hunger only- I did it that way for months and it works of course. So I am not there yet at all.....

I'm taking advantage of the newfound hours in my retired day exploring a bunch of fitness classes. I am doing yoga which is meditative and sure fits into mindfulness the hippies had it right in the 60s. And for me walking on the beach is soulful and mindful I listen to the surf watch the sun glint off the water appreciate the crunch of the sand. Makes me feel so good. It is such a pleasure to have these long days after the years of frantic busyness. Eating intuitively is so easy in this setting. But life never stays non stressful for too long, need to set the healthy patterns and prep to handle the challenges constructively.

Beverlyjoy
01-28-2014, 07:40 AM
Hi. Today will be my sixth (or seventh) day of living with IE. I still don't quite know what I am doing. However - I think I can feel food in my tummy and sometimes can feel some fullness. I don't, however, know exactly when to stop eating. It's usually when the food on my plate is almost gone. I have been leaving a bite.

I have read the Overfed Head. Now I am reading You Can Have Your Cake and Skinny Jeans, Too. There's a lot to think about.

I am still thinking and afraid I am eating too much. I hope some comfort in this will follow eventually.

Today is my 36th anniversary - DH and I will go out for dinner. That has always been tricky and hard in the past. I've looked at the menu online (habit) - and am fretting over making the 'right' choice. I'll figure it out. My goal is to feel no guilt after having a delicious supper.... focusing on feeling full.

Cindysunshine - nice to have time now to pursue yoga and other activities.

Southern Maven - thanks for the link to the magazine. Teaching mindfulness would be awesome. You said: I found it particularly interesting that it said women stop dieting at the average age of 64.
Well - I am 61 and I hope I can do it now.

pattygirl - yay for eating at KFC with no guilt.

Gotta go.... have a good day.

Wannabeskinny
01-28-2014, 09:34 AM
Joining tentatively and mostly out of curiosity. I know that there's truth to intuitive eating but I don't trust myself to do it right. I'm one of those people who know that if I allow my true self to eat that I will eat everything in sight and then go and get more. The concept of IE makes perfect sense but is an alien concept.

So I'm reading Overfed Head. I figured I should at least read it before declaring myself a failure at IE right? And the stories of people gaining and giving up aren't exactly enticing.

So please excuse me if my suspicions run high but I truly am curious because it all sounds too good to be true. I want nothing more than to be free of food obsession. I don't want to count calories, I don't want to restrict myself, I don't want to punish myself when I eat "bad food." But I'm afraid that my hungry signals are all messed up, so I have a hard time relying on that.

I'm only 50 pages into the book so there's no indication yet of how to do this. I need some concrete steps on how to start this thing. But one thing did make an impression - I was an intuitive eater when I was pregnant. I lost weight when I was pregnant. I didn't restrict anything (other than the typical restrictive foods on preggos like sushi and blue cheese), and yet I craved little. I didn't obsess about food. I was the most normal person in the world, happy healthy and not obsessive. It all came back after the baby was born but I long to get back to my pregnant state of eating. Maybe IE is the way to go?

SouthernMaven
01-28-2014, 10:27 AM
So glad to see you, Wannabeskinny! You are more than welcome here.

I am glad to see that you are reading The Overfed Head. It's a great book, and I've always recommended it, but now I really have very high praise for Overcoming Overeating by Hirschmann and Munter. I am almost finished and I have learned a lot from it, particularly the second and third sections. I find it a great complimentary read to Overfed Head.

Rob Stevens makes some great points, but there are a few things I don't care for in his book - one is the hunger/fullness chart, which I find totally useless. I think that's so individual and is something each person has to learn for himself/herself. And I can see how people might drive themselves crazy trying to determine if they are full or not.

The whole purpose of IE is to get in touch with your body's own signals. This takes practice.

I can completely understand the fear of overeating, and often people do overeat at first. I think people either overeat or undereat when first starting IE; if they are undereating they are still restricting, which is so hard to break away from. If they overeat most of the time they are still learning their signals. Unfortunately some people do gain weight and it scares them away. But Rob Stevens does make the point that the body really needs to reset itself, and sometimes a weight gain is part of that process.

You and I have already had the discussion about our "normal" eating during pregnancy, and guess what? I have recently been participating in another IE forum and the very same discussion came up, and several women there ALSO said that was the only time they can ever remember eating "like a normal person," as they put it. I can't help but think it's because we are not only NOT worried about weight gain, but also because we are so much more in tune with our bodies; we're in a heightened state of awareness, as it were.

At any rate, I think it's really interesting that several other people said the same thing. Fascinating, really.

Feel free to ask questions, and there is absolutely nothing wrong with being a bit skeptical. I totally understand that.

I hope Carol will jump in here and give you some encouragement. She started the first IE thread here in 2006 and is still here. She's lost about 40 lbs in that time...yes, very slowly, as she has said, but it's staying off. She's a long-term success story with IE.

SouthernMaven
01-28-2014, 10:42 AM
Today is my 36th anniversary - DH and I will go out for dinner. That has always been tricky and hard in the past. I've looked at the menu online (habit) - and am fretting over making the 'right' choice. I'll figure it out. My goal is to feel no guilt after having a delicious supper.... focusing on feeling full.

Beverlyjoy - no need to fret; the right choice is very simple - eat what you want. Period.

We all know restaurant portions are always so large, so just ask for a "to go" box if there's a lot left over. I do it all the time.

The main thing to remember is to try - as much as possible - to eat mindfully. When you're with someone else at a restaurant it's a bit tougher to do, but you can. Just eat slowly and try to concentrate on how good the food tastes. At some point you'll experience "the law of diminishing returns" as I like to call it. You start getting full and the tastiness of the food starts to go down. When you get to that point it will be time to save the rest of the meal for later.

Just always be hungry when you eat something. That's probably the hardest part of IE - getting used to the fact that it's okay to be nice and hungry because you don't have a restricted set of calories to stay within or a certain type of food to eat (which may not satisfy you AT ALL). You of course don't want to get TOO hungry, but it's nice to be hungry enough to really enjoy the meal.

Truffle
01-28-2014, 11:15 AM
Carol - thanks for the new thread and for the post by Skwigg. Every time I read it I get re-inspired!

I've read about 2/3 of Overcoming Overeating. (Hirschmann, Munter) I wasn't super-thrilled about the first third of the book, as there's too much analysis in there. But Phase 2 - Feeding Yourself is excellent! Lots of interesting ideas in there I'd not seen elsewhere. And what I didn't see was any real emphasis on how to determine "hunger/fullness" cues. I'm sure it's mentioned along the way, but not to any great extent. It might show up in Phase 3, but I rather doubt it as it is called Finding Yourself. I think the part is likely more about dealing with food obsession.

So even if I don't care for Phase 1 OR Phase 3, Phase 2 was worth the read. If you can get it at your local library I'd go that route. Unfortunately it wasn't even in the card catalog of my county library, which is surprising, as it is a very large system. I had no problem getting Intuitive Eating there; they had lots of copies of that.

I read both Overcoming Overeating and When Women Hate Their Bodies when they first came out, and found them to be very helpful to me at that time. Besides Geneen Roth's books, they were some of the first ones that provided me with a good reason to stop dieting.

Years have gone by since the books were first published, and nowadays, the talk is that the Overcoming Overeating approach is quite harmful, mainly because people get stuck on feeding their "mouth hunger", and don't move past it into choosing "healthier" foods.

I used to be active in a couple of Overcoming Overeating Yahoo groups, and any mention of wanting to lose weight was forbidden. There were people on the groups that gained LOTS of weight and weren't able to put the brakes on the gaining.

I guess the whole point of the books was for people to make peace with food, not really to lose weight.

Truffle
01-28-2014, 11:30 AM
Hi, ladies...It's good to see so many new people on this thread. I don't get a chance to come over here very often, but always like to catch up with the thread when I can.

This past Fall, thanks to walking with my Fitbit, and using our NutriBullet, I had managed to take off 19 pounds. That total has come over a couple of YEARS though, so it's been very, very, very slow.

I had hoped to take off a couple more pounds over this winter, but the winter has been a hard one here in Vermont. We've either been having ice storms or Arctic blasts, so there's been NO outdoors time to speak of. I've been bouncing up between three to six pounds ever since Thanksgiving. If I can just stay where I am and not gain it all back before Spring, I'll be happy.

A couple of my sisters are going on a Spring cruise, so they're in get-the-weight-off-asap mode right now. It's been tempting to join them, but that doesn't work for me. Restricting food just makes me want to eat all the time.

I do best if I stay busy and think about food as little as possible. I don't try NOT to think about food; I just try not to make it a big deal.

I'm not really doing IE because I find it's just as easy to turn that into a diet as anything else. I just don't diet, and try to let food be a natural part of life, instead of letting it cause all sorts of problems for me.

That was a very interesting statistic about when most women stop dieting. I'm 57, and though I'll still make a diet attempt every once in awhile, for the most part, I'm DONE with diets. I don't know if it's because the older we get, the less we care about what people think of us, or what.

I'm mainly interested in keeping my mobility and as much health as I can as I age, not in whether I look "hot" or not. :lol:

Liliann
01-28-2014, 01:11 PM
Hiya all...Just checkin in...Welcome newbies!!

Truffle...I love the nutri bullet..been having smoothies ,and had stopped with brutal cold weather we dealing with...Once it gets warmer, will start using it again...Thanks for the reminder and Bravo of your weight loss success so far!!

Folks...lost track of my hunger scale efforts..and am just eating to give me strength to do my home duties. I am now eating every 3-4 hours and plenty of movements. I am addicted to the scale part and I know on few self help books, it states to avoid the scale due its part of the dieting world. I agree and in fact that am done or should I say outgrown from the dieting game mindset.

This may sound strange...But I am happy with my size..I love food and love to exercise!! What I truly need to focus is work on my self esteem and do plenty of self caring, and not dieting per say talking anymore. Feb 1st, am thinking about keeping a thoughts journal and work on my issues. I come in terms that I will never be a medium size..and just face the facts I am big and good hearted person .The only way is holding me back is doctors and family members on pushing me back on losing weight. For many years been told to loose..It was fun in the past...but now...I am interested on maintaining and not going past my current weight.

Will check in here from time to time...Good luck to all on your goal efforts..Have a great day!!

pattygirl63
01-28-2014, 02:17 PM
I am glad to see Time coming out with the Mindful eating issue. I never could get my kids to slow down and taste what they eat and I noticed that DH grandkids are even worse. DGS comes to visit on weekends and goes in and gets himself something to eat or I cook a meal for him and I swear that the food never stays in his mouth long enough for him to even taste it. He is thin because he is so active, but he comes from a family of big people. Both his grandparents on his Daddy's side had their stomachs stapled and she has gained all her weight back and he has to still fight gaining weight. Youngest DGD is the same way... eats so fast. However, the oldest DGD refuses to eat if she has to rush through a meal. She takes time to taste what she eats and hopefully in time she will be a good example for the youngest one. At least, I hope so. I really believe that it isn't always what we eat that is a problem as much as it is whether we eat it mindlessly.

It is so good to see us being so active a thread. It really helps.

Becky It's good to see you here and I like what you called the taste hunger. I like "mouth hunger" best so I just may steal that term from you. My sister loves smoothies and I do too in the springtime, but just can't go it during cold weather. I even have a problem getting my water in during this time of the year and probably drink too much in the spring and summer. Check in when you can.

I'm not sure I can remember this correctly but Carolr can as she truly has been my inspiration through the yrs since I found this thread. But this is the basic rule from Intuitive Eating book which I used to have on my fridge. Maybe I should put it up again.

1. If you are really hungry, eat.
2. Eat what you really want, not what you think you should eat.
3. Savor every bite.
4. When you start to feel full (I always preferred feel satisfied), stop.

Hope this helps.

BBL

mlroman
01-28-2014, 03:28 PM
Liliann, I hear you on the self esteem! That's a topic I'm trying to tackle this year, too. I bought the book "Beautiful You: A Daily Guide to Radical Self-Acceptance". It leads you through a "365 day action-plan", and each day's item is just a few pages long. A lot of them ask you to record your thoughts in a journal. I'm on day 33. Apparently I'm not in a real journaling mindset lately and keep "meaning to" but don't, but I'm making sure I don't let that stop me from reading each day's writing and really thinking about it. Maybe next year I'll go through again, and be a good girl and do the journaling part. But even without journaling, I'm getting a lot out of it. It may be a helpful book for you, too.

pattygirl63
01-28-2014, 04:10 PM
Had to end last post quickly as dinner was ready and I didn't want it to burn.

I wanted to share that I weighed and measured myself about a month ago and found the notebook this morning and decided to see how things had gone. I've lost 4.4 lbs and an overall loss of 8.1 inches. I realize that isn't a whole lot, but at least it is a loss even if it is slow.

Liliann Glad you are happy with your size. In fact, in Allan Carr's book Lose Weight Now, he says not to use the scale to dictate what you should weigh. He says when you can look in the mirror and be happy with what your size then you have reached your goal. Sounds like you are there.

I think we all have problems with low self-esteem. I know I do. It is like the youtube site Maven shared says... we are not dumb ignorant failures. Although we have been successful in other areas of our lives... loved them showing doctors, lawyers, teachers etc, we are made to feel like we have failed because we couldn't lose the weight and keep it off. One of the things I love about IE is that saying "the scale is a number which gives me important information, it does not define me". I love it when I meet people who accept and love me for who I am and not for how I look. I consider them to be better and smarter people. Those who only look at my size, I consider to be shallow. JMO

Have a nice evening and stay safe and warm.

mlroman
01-28-2014, 05:55 PM
Those are fantastic results, Pattygirl! Congratulations on results you can really see! =)

mlroman
01-28-2014, 05:59 PM
Truffle, you're doing great! Sometimes it's very hard to keep focus when we're not seeing BIG results all at once. To keep yourself moving in the right direction is a wonderful thing!

Beverlyjoy
01-29-2014, 08:48 AM
Hi folks - It's been over a week now I've been doing/trying Intuitive Eating. What I realized yesterday is that I really can eat the foods I want - as long as I am really hungry. It's freeing in a way.- I know that I am still very mindful of portions and good or 'bad' foods. It's still a dieter's mind set. I am working on it. But, what I have learned the most this week is feeling the fullness and/or emptiness of my stomach. I certainly don't have it mastered. But, I think I have made progress in that area. I am grateful for that.

In the evening I wanted to eat - I wasn't hungry or my tummy seemed OK. And I didn't eat. That's a miracle. I am grateful.

I weighed today and lost 4 pounds in the last 8 days.

DH & I didn't get to go out for our anniversary as he was called away with a work project. We will go out on Friday night instead. Also - thanks for the Happy Anniversary wishes.

pattygirl - I am so happy for you to see the scale go down. I know how the scale can be a tricky thing. Carry on. Thanks for posting this again:

1. If you are really hungry, eat.
2. Eat what you really want, not what you think you should eat.
3. Savor every bite.
4. When you start to feel full (I always preferred feel satisfied), stop.


milrman - thanks for mentioning that book

lillian - it sounds like you know what you need. That's wonderful.

truffle - glad you posted.

southernmaven Thanks so much for your thoughts about the restaurant and facing IE. Appreciate it. You said: The whole purpose of IE is to get in touch with your body's own signals. This takes practice. That's a good reminder.

wannabeskinny - hi. I am newish at IE, myself. It's sounds like a trip to 'crazytown' to me. But, it does make sense. I am trying to see how it works.


Have a good day. Treat yourself as kindly as you would treat a good friend.

Wannabeskinny
01-29-2014, 08:52 AM
Haha, a trip to crazy town.

I'm still trying to figure out what being hungry means. This is a life long battle.

Liliann
01-29-2014, 12:48 PM
Trish...Great work on your Lbs and inches victory!! Bravo!!

Beverly...Glad to hear you holding up well. Keep it up!!

mlroman... Thank you for the book recommend...Will check it out!

Have a great one all...Everyone is doing awesome and Thank you all for sharing...It keeps me going and Not fallen into the dieting game mindset..Enjoy your day folks!! :)

SouthernMaven
01-29-2014, 12:52 PM
Well, the last 24 hours have been hellish, and that's an understatement.

I live in the Atlanta metro area. Not sure how much of this has been covered in the national news, but we had a snowstorm here that somehow managed to tie up the entire metro area traffic. My daughter and SIL were trapped on one of the major roadways but did manage to get home in a little under 12 hours. (1:30 am). I have friends and relatives who spent the night in various locations other than their homes - grocery stores, their own car, you name it.

I'm not really sure exactly what happened, but one of the major contributing factors was the fact that they did not close schools because it was just a moderate amount of snow predicted, so when it DID start snowing around 11:00 am THEN it was decided to close them early. This resulted in parents trying to get to them, along with all businesses letting out early. The result was a traffic logjam of unbelievable proportions. Why they didn't just cancel school to begin with is beyond me, but this was the result. Some school buses just couldn't get to the schools so a fair number of children and teachers had to spend the night at their schools. And it's still completely jacked up.

My daughter had the foresight to take her husband's 4-wheel drive vehicle because she lives 30 miles from her place of work, which is right next to the airport. (Hindsight is 20/20 vision, but if she had known what she was in for she'd have just gone to the airport and spent the night.) Her husband works only 10 miles from their house but he was stuck as well. He was finally able to get down close to her and then they met about halfway on her route. They left her car at the Waffle House where they met and took his 4-wheel drive home.

They were the lucky ones. There are abandoned cars everywhere, and some people are STILL in their cars on the highway.

My daughter had forgotten to get her car charger out of her car when she took her husband's, so she finally lost battery and we couldn't contact her. Fortunately she'd already made arrangements to meet her husband and she did finally get to him around midnight. But not being able to contact her was so scary.

Through all this I did manage to keep from overeating, but I must admit that I had more wine than I should have. ;) I'm just so grateful that they made it home okay and all my friends and relatives who got stuck are either now at home or at the least in a warm place.

What a complete nightmare.

carolr3639
01-29-2014, 01:18 PM
I have one friend in GA and one in AR and they had this kind of stuff all over facebook.

CindySunshine
01-29-2014, 05:25 PM
Wow amazing on Atlanta. My neighbor had friends staying with her from Las Vegas their flight home routed through Atlanta and was cancelled today. After much rearranging they routed through Chicago talk about of the way from Southwest Florida!

I have been surfing around 3FC the past several days and agree there are a lot of people who sure seem to need Intuitive Eating. One of the interesting threads was in the Eating Disorders section and they were discussing the book Brain Over Binge. There is a website if you search on it and in the blog the author talks about her experience and then people at the bottom comment on what worked for them, there is a link just at the end of the authors comments that takes you to something that I found really useful if I think I have taste hunger and I'm not physically hungry. She talks about visualizing she is intent on a game of chess and a yipping dog is demanding attention and yapping and butting up against you and just annoying as all get out and how it helps her to make sense of the eating out of hunger like saying no to the eating /dog. You know it both seems to put me back in control as with the chess game logically and see the desire to eat as an annoying external force. Anyway we will see how it pans out in the long run.

mlroman
01-29-2014, 06:10 PM
Our news here in Pittsburgh tonight showed the mess in Atlanta. Wow! Glad your family is finally home safe and sound, Maven!!!

Locke
01-29-2014, 06:44 PM
Hey guys,

I'm doing well eating intuitively so far and the weight is falling off. My problem is that I really don't know what to eat. I've gotten used the the structure of dieting. I've found myself drifting between different low carb plans. I understand this whole eating when hungry and stopping when full thing, but I don't know *what* to eat. How do you guys figure it out?

CindySunshine
01-29-2014, 07:53 PM
Locke I don't know if this helps but what I do is first off be sure I have ingredients around to make a variety of things I like as in keep things in the freezer and pantry. I like to cook so I go thru recipes and pick out a few things when I go shopping.

Then I ask myself what I want to eat, like in the morning I will go thru do eggs or oatmeal or toast or whatever sound good? I am surprised how often one of them sounds best to me which I think tells me if I need carbs or protein or fruit or whatever physically. If none of them really sound good my next question is are you really hungry and I do sometimes decide that's the case.

Don't know if that helps and it is easier when you aren't trying to deal with a family for sure. Anxious to hear what others do.

pattygirl63
01-30-2014, 12:28 AM
Because of my crazy eating today, I would say be sure you are eating what you "really" want and not what you think you should eat. I got up this morning and I wanted cheese toast, but when I looked in the fridge, I saw the egg beaters and decided that I really should eat it not because of "diet" thinking but I didn't want it to ruin. There is a reason that IE says eat what you really want because I set myself off on a journey of a day of being hungry all day. I finally realized that tonight that I should have started my day eating what I really did want. When I was faithfully doing IE, if I didn't know what I wanted to eat, I took that to mean that I wasn't hungry. I would wait and when I did get hungry I usually had something that sounded good to me.

So tomorrow, I'm going IE 100%. I'm not going to eat until I am hungry and I know what I want.

Maven Glad your family is home and safe after their horrible experience in the snow storm.

It's late so headed to bed. Catch y'all tomorrow.

SouthernMaven
01-30-2014, 07:15 AM
Thanks everyone. All friends and relatives accounted for and are all now home. It has not been a fun 48 hours, that's for sure.

I'm now getting a bit stir crazy but fortunately my husband has a 4-wheel drive truck so we are going to venture out today. It's supposed to get to 40 so hopefully the ice we always get on the hill at the top of our street will melt enough to be able to maneuver it.

When I went to the grocery early Tuesday morning in anticipation of the snow, I picked up a box of doughnuts - a half-dozen glazed. I've never been a big doughnut eater, but for some reason those really appealed to me. I'd not eaten anything before going to the grocery (I went at 7:00 am when it first opened to avoid the crowds) so when I got back home after putting up all the groceries I got a cup of black coffee and one of those doughnuts and sat down and ate it mindfully. It was delicious, and I really enjoyed it. My husband ate one in the evening, and then yesterday I decided to have another one for breakfast. Enjoyed it again, but not so much. Then I had a third one today, and after I ate it I knew that would be the last doughnut I'd be eating for awhile, as the satisfaction I got from eating the doughnut this morning was very minimal. Hubby had eaten another one last night and I am pretty sure he'll eat the last one in the box tonight, but if he doesn't then I'll just throw it away, because I can't see myself eating another doughnut for awhile.

What I usually eat for breakfast is cheese toast, and that's probably what I should have eaten today, because it sounds a lot more appealing than that doughnut. So chances are that's what I'll have for lunch - unless something else pops into my head that sounds better!

Wannabeskinny
01-30-2014, 07:51 AM
@SouthernMaven, what do you mean you sat down and ate it mindfully? Can you describe what that process is like?

So I'm on my period now, which means I crave lots and lots of food. As I was eating take out last night I couldn't stop myself, I just kept wanting more and more and more. I had a big bowl of beef fried rice, 5 pieces of salmon avocado roll, 3 pieces of sushi, 2 whole chicken wings and a small serving of rice pudding. I probably could have eaten more but I put an end to it. I didn't feel sick or too full afterwards but I also tried not to feel guilty. I did feel a little embarrassed though since my husband just had a bowl of mei fun and some celery sticks. It's a little embarrassing to out-eat my husband. I'm not sure why I wanted to eat that much besides being on my period but if I were to look at that meal from a dieting standpoint it was an epic fail.

Wannabeskinny
01-30-2014, 07:53 AM
Question: How does mindful eating affect your family life? Our family meals tend to be in front of the tv more often than I'd like, and I have a toddler so I'm busy cutting up food and paying attention to his needs more than my own. Sometimes my food gets cold and I don't know how to be mindful through chaos. Do you expect others around you to be mindful too? How does this work while eating with others?

Wannabeskinny
01-30-2014, 08:12 AM
Liliann, I hear you on the self esteem! That's a topic I'm trying to tackle this year, too. I bought the book "Beautiful You: A Daily Guide to Radical Self-Acceptance". It leads you through a "365 day action-plan", and each day's item is just a few pages long. A lot of them ask you to record your thoughts in a journal. I'm on day 33. Apparently I'm not in a real journaling mindset lately and keep "meaning to" but don't, but I'm making sure I don't let that stop me from reading each day's writing and really thinking about it. Maybe next year I'll go through again, and be a good girl and do the journaling part. But even without journaling, I'm getting a lot out of it. It may be a helpful book for you, too.

Thanks for this recommendation. I often find journaling to be difficult without a set goal or question to answer but I do enjoy doing it. I ordered this book and can't wait to start, this is totally up my alley.

Locke
01-30-2014, 10:21 AM
Because of my crazy eating today, I would say be sure you are eating what you "really" want and not what you think you should eat. I got up this morning and I wanted cheese toast, but when I looked in the fridge, I saw the egg beaters and decided that I really should eat it not because of "diet" thinking but I didn't want it to ruin. There is a reason that IE says eat what you really want because I set myself off on a journey of a day of being hungry all day. I finally realized that tonight that I should have started my day eating what I really did want. When I was faithfully doing IE, if I didn't know what I wanted to eat, I took that to mean that I wasn't hungry. I would wait and when I did get hungry I usually had something that sounded good to me.

So tomorrow, I'm going IE 100%. I'm not going to eat until I am hungry and I know what I want.

Maven Glad your family is home and safe after their horrible experience in the snow storm.

It's late so headed to bed. Catch y'all tomorrow.

Yeah I got all caught up in the ketogenic stuff and for the last few days have been trying to eat that way but intuitively. I got really sick and overate. I guess this is just one bump in the road that I can turn into a learning experience- I will try to seek out diets but I need to avoid them like the plague!

pattygirl63
01-30-2014, 12:03 PM
I shared last night about how I got messed up with my eating and ended up eating all day. I shared this on the diabetic thread, but then decided I needed to share it here as it is more of the IE lesson.

I got up yesterday morning wanting cheese toast, but saw my egg substitute in the fridge and decided that I need to use it before it ruins. Instead of eating what I "really did want" as I know to do with the idea to remember that the egg substitute was there to use later when I wanted, I made a very nice burrito type egg wrap that really did taste good, but it was NOT what I really wanted and never did get it even though I did eat a lot of other thing. (I have to wonder what the result would have been if I had thought to eat the cheese toast later. Would I have spent the rest of the day eating foods that didn't satisfy me?) Although I didn't eat the egg wrap for a "dieting" reason, it still had the same result as if I had. I ate everything I could find to eat until last night I suddenly had a very strong desire for a really good salad. I haven't had a salad in a while because of the cold... I've been eating veggie soups instead. When the desire for the salad hit me, I finally listened to my hunger and honored it. I finally ate something I "really" wanted and I was satisfied.

My use of WW was never supposed to be used to get rid of what I've learned in Intuitive Eating. It was supposed to compliment it. Guess what, once I had the salad that "satisfied" me, I wasn't hungry any more. I was immediately right back on track and today I am back to using WW but IE is the 1st priority. Perhaps, I should call it IE with WW instead of the other way around. I didn't gain but .4 lbs from it so it is just water gain.

I have been eating a lot of pretzels almost obsessively... sure wish they would make this stuff without added salt. Any way, doing as Allen Carr says on the cd I listen to every night, I put the rest of those things down the garbage disposal. Better down the disposal than on my waist. I've decided that (for me) even in doing IE that there are foods that I personally cannot handle although there is no such thing as bad food/good food in Intuitive eating.

I finally have come to the place where I don't let these set backs be a disaster, but they are learning situations that can make my way of eating become better. I'm not going to allow them to be excuses to get off plan. I like the way Locke put it. They are just "bumps" in the road that gives me information that will help me on my IE journey. I've come to realize that when I hit those bumps that I have to make a choice on how to handle them. I can either make a good choice or a bad one. It is all up to me.

Have a nice day everyone.

Beverlyjoy
01-30-2014, 12:04 PM
Hi...

DH brought me some dark chocolate for our anniversary. I actually ask him not to bring it in the house. It can trigger overeating. I did well for a couple of days. I included it in my lunch and dinner. I ate it and savored it. Then last night I some hazelnut/chocolate spread with my dinner. I was down hill from there. The compulsion and desire to overeat was overwhelming. I pushed through it a couple of times. But, eventually ate more spread, my chocolate and a host of other carbs - fast and standing and all the other behavior around food I am trying to change. Well - every day is a new beginning. I had a nice breakfast (wasn't hungry until after 10am). I think I am forgiving myself and must move forward. I think I'll take my chocolate in places where it's gone, really gone, when I finish it. At least for now.

My main question is: how does IE work when I am watching sodium and also I have high triglycerides. I really don't know how to proceed with that. What do you think?

SouthernMaven - so glad you and your family are OK. I've watching the news and am horrified to hear what some people had to go thro, ugh. So stressful,

Wannabeskinny - you asked about what is mindful eating. What I have learned about it is that you are really focused on what you have to eat. You don't have distractions from the food like tv, computer, a book or magazine, etc. It also refers to eating slowly. Enjoy and savor each bite of your food. (a lot of folks think about food a good portion of the day - and then eat it so fast that they hardly taste it.) Put your food and/or silverware down between each bite. If you can... feel that food going down into your tummy. All this should help to make eating last a little longer. Having a calm atmosphere around eating if possible. Other people please be free to add to this. Also - I don't expect my husband to be mindful. However, he insists we have dinner in front of the TV. So I try to only concentrate on my food and not what ever is on.

pattygirl - yes, EI seems to be a learning process for sure. Often, as you said, we go along. I think we all use our knowledge of nutrition when we make choices. But - there's suppose to be no judgement in what we choose. I think that's part of it... I don't know for sure.

Cindysunshine.. thanks for your ideas.

locke - so happy for you to have lost weight and be EI. I understand how it's hard to undo the 'diet' mentality. I am still working on that too. Part of EI is freeing to me because I can cook something in the crockpot and on the stove and know that I can have what others are eating too. From what I've read EI is eating when you are hungry - eating what you really want - stop eating as soon as you start to feel full. I am learning as I go.

Have a good day. I am hoping for a good EI day, myself.

SouthernMaven
01-31-2014, 08:26 AM
@SouthernMaven, what do you mean you sat down and ate it mindfully? Can you describe what that process is like?


Sorry I'm so late in answering, Wannabeskinny.

For me, eating mindfully means several things. First, I eat without any distractions (I'm a person who loves to eat while watching TV, so I've stopping doing that, for the most part). Secondly, I really try to concentrate on what I'm eating, enjoying each bite. This is why it is so important to eat what you want, not what you think you should be eating.

This morning I had my cheese toast. I'd had enough of those doughnuts. :) The first thing I did, after getting it out of the toaster oven, was to cut each piece in half. And I've always had a habit of always taking a bite out of whatever I've prepared before sitting down with it, so I've stopped doing that as well. I took it to the table and very slowly started taking bites, being sure to put the piece back onto the plate between bites. (If I'm eating something with a fork I place the fork down between each bite.)

I also try to really pay attention to everything about the food - its taste, its texture, how I feel as I am chewing and swallowing the food. This is where the "mindful" eating comes into play. Most of us who have habitually overeaten spend more time thinking about the food we're going to eat than actually enjoying it when we DO eat it. I don't know about others, but the guilt I've so often associated with so-called "bad" foods was at one time so strong that I wasn't even aware of how fast I was eating it...much like a child sneaking a forbidden treat and trying to shovel it down as fast as they can before the parent catches them.

It seems a little strange when you first start doing this, but it really does make a difference. I'm much more satisfied when I finish my meal when I do this. I try to leave some on my plate, but I don't always succeed at that. Yesterday my husband and I went to a local barbeque place just to finally get out of the house and we were both REALLY hungry when we got there. I got my favorite meal and I wasn't as good about eating mindfully as I should have been. I began eating and the next thing I knew I was stuffed! I don't like that feeling. I left about 1/4 of my meal on the plate (the waitress even asked if I wanted a to-go box, which I declined) but that was strictly because I was so full - definitely beyond satisfied, which is the goal of IE.

Compare that to how I felt when I finished my cheese toast this morning - certainly no longer hungry, but far from stuffed. Just satisfied.

SouthernMaven
01-31-2014, 08:52 AM
Question: How does mindful eating affect your family life? Our family meals tend to be in front of the tv more often than I'd like, and I have a toddler so I'm busy cutting up food and paying attention to his needs more than my own. Sometimes my food gets cold and I don't know how to be mindful through chaos. Do you expect others around you to be mindful too? How does this work while eating with others?

I thought I'd address this as well, although our situations are completely different.

I'm an empty nester, so it's just me and hubby. But I do relate to the TV eating, as we have a habit of doing that. My husband is an intuitive eater but he also has his eating routine. We always watch one particular news show together each evening at 6:00 pm, and that's when he likes to eat. (Sometimes I cook, sometimes I don't and he just eats cereal) but when I do cook that's where we've always eaten our meal - while watching this particular show. So now I've stopped doing that. If it's a night when I don't cook he eats whatever he's going to eat and I just sit and watch the show. If I DO cook I serve it before this show comes on and then he eats his cookie or another snack while watching it. Generally if I cook a big meal we eat it between 4 and 5 because we don't really eat much else during the day. He's retired from a large corporation and now works a part-time job a couple of days a week, and generally he works until 9. So obviously on those days I don't cook a big meal and it's easier on me to do what I need to eat mindfully.

I do, however, remember when my children were small and yes, it is the nature of being a mother that we put their needs above ours. I do think that's how I got in the habit of always taking a bite of food before sitting down at the table, because many times that was the only time I was going to eat any part of a hot meal. I'm not really in the best position to advice you because I was so thin when my children were small....which was a change from before I got pregnant, when I was overweight. So as I've stated before I was eating intuitively. I was somewhat older when I had my children and had gotten fairly set in my ways regarding sleep - meaning I LOVED sleeping in and not getting enough sleep was the hardest part of being a mother for me. So often I had a choice - I could EAT after they went to bed or I could go to SLEEP. I always chose sleep - which is probably why I stayed thin. My older child (daughter) was a very early walker and very very active so I quite literally ran after her all day. But she was good about taking naps. The son, not so much. Never slept at ALL during the day and was the ultimate t*tty baby (literally) ... I could NOT put him down. They were 27 months apart so needless to say I had little time for myself. I was blessed in that they both slept well at night so I was able to generally get a fair amount of uninterrupted sleep. But once the son came along there was NO napping for me. None.

I think I was too tired to eat, frankly. I don't know what happened to me. I used to marvel at how thin I was (at one time I weighed 95 lbs - I'm 5'2") and I would tell everyone I could eat anything I wanted. My husband was convinced that my metabolism had completely changed during pregnancy. But looking back, I realize now that I was simply eating when I was hungry and not at any other time. (and sometimes even NOT eating when I was hungry) That's why I believe IE is the way to go, because I've already experienced its success - although I didn't realize it at the time.

Anyway, as far as eating mindfully with others around, I'll admit it presents a challenge. It's more difficult for me. Short of just eating your own meal separately, not something I would recommend for family harmony, I guess the best advice I can give is just to try as hard as you can to not hurry your meal. I know it's frustrating, especially if your meal is getting cold. (I used my microwave a LOT to reheat when my children were small). And on those occasions when you DO eat a meal alone, really concentrate as much as possible on what you're eating. Like anything else this becomes a habit and should get easier as time goes on.

Wannabeskinny
01-31-2014, 09:05 AM
Thanks SouthernMaven for the explanation. I did read on in Overfed Head about how to eat mindfully and I've tried doing that.

In the morning yesterday I went through a list of possible breakfast items until I settled on yogurt. I liked the idea of something cool and refreshing and creamy. I threw in some flax seeds and chia seeds and a tiny sprinkle of grape nuts because I like the crunchiness they give, and drizzled it with a little honey. I tried not to feel guilty about the honey and I tried not to overthink the chia and flax because I usually do that "to be good" but I tried to think of it as a texture instead. I enjoyed every bite in what I thought to be a mindful way.

Later on in the morning as I was ironing I got a hunger pang. I tried to shake it off like a little dog nipping at my heels as someone else suggested. I tried so hard to understand hunger, to prolong it so that I could FEEL its effect. I really couldn't discern if it was physical, emotional, psychological or what. This is the hard part for me. What is this feeling of discomfort, and can I take care of it with something other than food? So I grabbed a small handful of almonds, smelled them, sat down and ate them one by one feeling the texture of each one. It didn't make the discomfort go away but it took the edge off.

Lunch was a little frantic, DS was spilling his food everywhere and it was making me kind of crazy. I gobbled up 2 bowls of vegetable/bean soup and one slice of crusty bread as mindfully as one can with a fiesty toddler getting soup everywhere. I should have probably waited until after he had his lunch to eat but by that time I was feeling a little frantically hungry myself. I'll need to watch out for this.

Dinner was steak, pan roasted potatoes and mushrooms, and salad. Dinner was less frantic. I put my fork down between bites and really tried to pay attention to the food rather than just shoveling it in. I'm not usually a fast eater but I pay less attention to the food than I should. This is a meal I can easily over eat, especially the potatoes! I can go for 2nd, 3rd, 4th and 5th helpings - I'm usually done when all the potatoes are gone. So I really wanted to eat the potatoes just enough to be satisfied. In the end I had a couple of helpings, 1/3rd of the steak, a couple of mushrooms and a side salad. Much less than I usually eat for sure.

The hardest part aside from identifying hunger is identifying satisfaction. I know that I need less food to be satisfied than to be full, but reaching that level of satisfaction is not easy to do. It's like learning how to walk - you don't explain mechanics to a baby when they first start to walk, you let them kind of figure it out on their own. But if you're teaching an adult to walk you have to go through and explain each step of what to do with their feet. That's how this feels. It's like learning how to eat - it should have been done long ago.

So based on my description of yesterday's eating, am I doing this right? Will this get easier? Will I teach myself to eat less this way?

SouthernMaven
01-31-2014, 10:29 AM
So based on my description of yesterday's eating, am I doing this right? Will this get easier? Will I teach myself to eat less this way?

You are doing wonderfully! And I completely understand the frustration. You explanation of the process as it relates to an adult is spot on. Years of dieting have completely distorted our hunger cues. Don't feel bad at this point if you're finding it hard to distinguish between "mouth" hunger and true hunger. Over time you'll begin to sense the difference.

For example, a couple of weeks ago I got really busy and just didn't eat. Well, I think I had eaten some yogurt early in the morning but that was all. I had to run errands and as I was driving I began to feel really faint. I didn't even know what was wrong and then I began thinking about the fact that I'd not eaten much the day before and had little to eat that day. At this point it was about 2:30 in the afternoon. I HAD to stop and get something to eat. Not only did the fact that I was faint tell me I was truly hungry but I also was craving something healthy. The closest thing I could find to healthy that I could get in a hurry was Chik-Fil-A, so I went in there and got a chicken salad sandwich. Man, did it taste good! Despite all the noise and chaos in there (children just having been dismissed from school and all that) I was able to eat pretty mindfully and believe it or not, I left about a quarter of that sandwich, even as hungry as I was.

I will tell you that I do get pangs of what I think is hunger but I let it go, because I know that if I'm TRULY hungry it will persist. Stomach grumbling for me isn't always an accurate sign because that often happens to me right AFTER I eat. For me it's more about how my overall sense of well-being is, but it's so individual for everyone.

And some days you WILL be a LOT hungrier than others. That's normal. I rarely eat on any type of schedule any more. I know that's more difficult for you, but I think you're doing really well.

Oh, and about the yogurt - I eat that ALL THE TIME and I put in Grape Nuts and frozen blueberries because I LOVE IT that way, not because I think it's good for me. I only like Vanilla yogurt, the fat-free Publix brand. Don't care for Greek Yogurt at all, so I just don't eat it. I eat what I WANT - and that way, I eat less overall.

Wannabeskinny
01-31-2014, 02:54 PM
Eating mindfully and deliberately is difficult. Not that I can't do it, but it takes a long time and it requires a fair bit of theatrics. Pausing, smelling, tasting, thinking about the texture and how it goes down. I wonder, does it start to feel less forced? It's like hyper awareness.

Breakfast today was interesting. I made 2 scrambled eggs, a cup full or so of left over pan roasted potatoes, some mushrooms and 2 slices of sopressatta. After a few bites I realized I didn't want most of the egg. And after thoroughly enjoying a few mushrooms I didn't want any of those anymore either. I focused on the potatoes which were roasted with onions and thus very sweet, and alternated bites between those and sopressatta which is salty and smoky. I barely ate one egg I'm sure. My instinct was to go back and calculate calories. I know this is bad but I couldn't stop my mind from going there.

CindySunshine
01-31-2014, 04:25 PM
Maven I agree on the vast difference in a slow enjoyed simple meal like your toast or a bowl of soup that you just take a bite at a time and savor. I like a pleasant table and pretty setting, too I cut palm branches here behind the house and stick them into cases around the house I can feel the tropical breeze LOL.

Wannabe I was going to comment on family and intuitive eating. It sure is good for your kids to establish good habits, too wherever you can make them happen. I had a no tv, sit at the table guideline as early with the kids as I can remember and I would light candles often. I remember my sons lighting them even when I never mentioned it as they got older and both of them are good soulful cooks now. It's good for the family, but with that said you are where you are and husbands can be entrenched in habits especially. Maybe you could start with a Sunday meal or something and see if it's so nice it gets done more often.

The big thing with my husband is he wants to eat once a day and then just really eat a lot. He is not overweight and honestly he is being intuitive for him, but not me and then the question is when do you share as a couple or family and when hold out for yourself. There are no easy or right answers.

pattygirl63
02-01-2014, 12:17 AM
A quick flyby to say that changing my plan to IE with WW instead of the other way around helped. I know it sounds crazy to, but it worked and I had a wonderful IE day.

Have a nice weekend.

Wannabeskinny
02-02-2014, 08:20 AM
I'm continuing on my IE journey. I am finding it difficult to tune into my body but I'm beginning to develop a sense of calm - I'm noticing that I don't have a lot of anxiety around food. Maybe it's because I know it's not off limits. For years I've been struggling with the bad/good mentality. If I eat a salad I am "good" and if I eat a potato chip I am "bad." After a few years of judging myself and criticizing myself and basing my self worth on the food I eat I'm exhausted, truly truly exhausted. So quelling my anxiety around food is really key. I know I can eat it if I want it, nothing is off limits, and enough to quell my hunger is enough. I'm also trying not to be critical of my cravings, they are what they are and I'm hoping that if I learn to trust what my body is saying that it will be easier to discern those cravings.

I'm also observing the thin people around me. Yesterday I was with 2 thin colleagues. During our meeting one of them suddenly said "I need a break, I need something to eat." And she pulled out a piece of corn bread from her coat pocket and said "I think I forgot to eat lunch and now I'm feeling a little weak." She ate about half of it and then got back to work. The conversation steered towards food (as it often does around women), and my other colleague (who is willowy thin and has been for the past 15yrs that I've known her) was describing her chocolate obsession. She was telling us that every morning she has toast with nutella for breakfast - that certainly does not sound like diet food to me... so how does a thin person eat chocolate and bread for breakfast every day and stay willowy thin? It made me think about all the Italians out there gobbling up pasta and wearing designer clothing, and about the millions of Asians eating noodles and rice for every meal and staying thin. There is no such thing as a bad food, and having a good relationship with food, ALL FOOD is the key to staying sane.

I think I've spent too long villainizing food, making my self worth hang on my self hatred for eating a cookie, and declaring myself as a failure when I've chosen to eat something off my plan. It's just inhuman how I've treated myself.

SouthernMaven
02-02-2014, 11:42 AM
I'm continuing on my IE journey. I am finding it difficult to tune into my body but I'm beginning to develop a sense of calm - I'm noticing that I don't have a lot of anxiety around food. Maybe it's because I know it's not off limits. For years I've been struggling with the bad/good mentality. If I eat a salad I am "good" and if I eat a potato chip I am "bad." After a few years of judging myself and criticizing myself and basing my self worth on the food I eat I'm exhausted, truly truly exhausted. So quelling my anxiety around food is really key. I know I can eat it if I want it, nothing is off limits, and enough to quell my hunger is enough. I'm also trying not to be critical of my cravings, they are what they are and I'm hoping that if I learn to trust what my body is saying that it will be easier to discern those cravings.

I'm also observing the thin people around me. Yesterday I was with 2 thin colleagues. During our meeting one of them suddenly said "I need a break, I need something to eat." And she pulled out a piece of corn bread from her coat pocket and said "I think I forgot to eat lunch and now I'm feeling a little weak." She ate about half of it and then got back to work. The conversation steered towards food (as it often does around women), and my other colleague (who is willowy thin and has been for the past 15yrs that I've known her) was describing her chocolate obsession. She was telling us that every morning she has toast with nutella for breakfast - that certainly does not sound like diet food to me... so how does a thin person eat chocolate and bread for breakfast every day and stay willowy thin? It made me think about all the Italians out there gobbling up pasta and wearing designer clothing, and about the millions of Asians eating noodles and rice for every meal and staying thin. There is no such thing as a bad food, and having a good relationship with food, ALL FOOD is the key to staying sane.

I think I've spent too long villainizing food, making my self worth hang on my self hatred for eating a cookie, and declaring myself as a failure when I've chosen to eat something off my plan. It's just inhuman how I've treated myself.


This is a GREAT post, Wannabeskinny!

I have bolded the statements that really jumped out at me, which I think is the essence of IE, but all your points are just wonderful...especially about all the thin people eating carbs. (I get crazy sometimes reading the posts from the all-knowing LC "gurus" on this forum and elsewhere who want people to believe that carbs should be banished from EVERYONE'S diet).

Those who oppose IE want everyone to think that people are just stuffing their faces with junk all day long. Nothing could be further from the truth. It really is all about getting in tune with our bodies.

Loved your observations about the thin colleagues. Can you imagine someone saying "I think I forgot to eat lunch?" How can you not KNOW you didn't eat lunch? :?: But that's my ultimate goal - to have food so insignificant in my life that I can honestly say I forgot to eat. I do skip meals from time to time for a variety of reasons, but I never FORGET to eat. I have known people who do, though. And they are all thin.

pattygirl63
02-02-2014, 04:42 PM
Maven I was one of those who thought I couldn't eat anything but low carb because of my fasting blood sugar readings, but I have learned that this is not true. In fact, I am learning just the opposite about myself. One thing I am learning is that I need some of the carbs that lc says I can't have. Now I have learned that I need them in moderation, but I need them for energy.

There was a time in my life when I would actually forget to eat. I never ate breakfast most of my life and I don't think I would have eat dinner if it hadn't been the main meal of the day growing up when family set down to eat together. Most of my weight problems have been from eating when everyone else eats or following the "normal" way of eating 3+ meals a day.

Wannabeskinny Today I experienced that calmness you speak of. No anxiety about my eating etc.

I've been listening to the hypnotherapy cd of Allen Carr who wrote the book Lose Weight Now The Easy Way. I listen to it as I go to sleep at night. Although I wasn't doing anything it said, I listened to it for a long time just because it relaxed me and it helps me sleep. I wanted to go back to eating the way I used to eat except, I like eating fruit in the morning because being similar to the book Fit For Life, Carr believes it helps detox your body. But I had been so brainwashed that I had to eat breakfast that I actually had a fear of getting hungry especially if I was away from home.

Today was my WI day on WW, so I wanted to make a change of the way I Intuitively Eating with the WW. I've always said if I ever got to the place in my life where I could do it that I would do Fit for Life. The difference in Fit For Life and Carr's Lose Weight Now is that he actually says on the hypno, cd "You will ONLY eat when you are hungry". He stresses that you will focus on what you eat and feel the texture and how it tastes etc enjoying every bite and eat only as much as it takes to satisfy your hunger.

Finally it has come together for me. I woke up this morning and dressed to go to church. I normally would be afraid to make any changes on a day I was going to be away from home, but I actually felt calm and relaxed to just eat a cup of honeydew melon and drink a cup of coffee. And yes I had the caffeine and enjoyed every bit of it. Went to church and enjoyed being there... no hunger pangs or fear of being hungry. I came home and calmly had another half cup coffee with half a banana before cooking dinner. Only cooked when DGS came in and said he was hungry. I made burgers and fries for the family and served him and DH first. I wasn't all that hungry except that I really wanted that burger. So while I cooked my burger, I cleaned up what I could of the kitchen then made my burger the way I wanted it and made me about half the fries I normally would eat and I truly enjoyed/savored every bite of it.

I was actually so satisfied that I haven't had to have anything else to eat since lunch. I've got my points figured on WW and I'm low on them at this time. Not sure if I'll even eat what I've planned or not. If I get hungry for something else, I will change and eat what I want because it just feels so good to be doing IE. This is the way I ate normally when I was younger and I sure hope I can keep up this way of eating and completely stop "diet thinking".

mlroman
02-02-2014, 10:11 PM
I quit smoking and drinking with Alan Carr's books. Didn't like his lose weight one, but I'd be interested in trying the hypnosis cd. Where do they sell it?

pattygirl63
02-02-2014, 10:29 PM
I quit smoking and drinking with Alan Carr's books. Didn't like his lose weight one, but I'd be interested in trying the hypnosis cd. Where do they sell it?

I'm pretty sure I ordered mine from Amazon.com. It came with the book.

Locke
02-03-2014, 01:01 AM
Hey gals,

Just checking in. My flirting with very low carb eating has reinforced the idea that diets don't work for me. I just need to eat what my body wants. I'm also getting used to serving myself small portions and getting up for seconds if I need to- which usually doesn't happen. So much peace of mind around food right now. I can celebrate what I eat and not feel guilty. :)

Wannabeskinny
02-03-2014, 07:50 AM
I've only been doing this for 4-5 days now but I will say that I was a little disappointed getting on the scale this morning. No gain, no loss. It's weird because I FEEL skinnier today and I'm sad that the scale doesn't reflect that. It also sent me thinking about the foods that I ate and berate myself a little bit for it. I'm not giving up because feeling better is a great deal more desirable to me than just losing weight and feeling deprived. I'm just going to continue trusting myself that I will eat when and what I want and stop when I've had enough and hope that soon my body will stop telling me to eat fattening foods lol.

Wannabeskinny
02-03-2014, 09:28 AM
Shopping mindfully - how do you stock up on food? Would I be craving pigs in a blanket for breakfast if there weren't some leftover in my fridge after the Super Bowl? How do you shop healthfully and mindfully and keep your kitchen full of healthy foods that aren't junk? Or do you buy junk and let yourself be tempted? I'm trying to follow my intuition buy should I buy food without judgement either?

pattygirl63
02-03-2014, 12:09 PM
wannabeskinny I'm sure all of us shop differently. I for one am working on getting my fasting blood sugar under control so that has a lot to do with what I buy and eat. While it is true that with IE there is no good/bad foods or "junk" foods, there is what Evelyn Tribole in Intuitive Eating calls Play foods. These are the foods that are considered junk foods by diets. She says follows an eating ratio of 90% nutritional foods and 10% play foods. So when I shop I try to follow this ratio and think ahead as to foods I think sounds good to keep on hand for my DH and me. However, I have learned that there are some "play" foods that I am not ready to have on hand on a regular basis because they are "problem" foods for me. I'm finding that just because diets, even diabetic diets or IE says that I can have something does not mean it is so "for me". While it is okay for someone else doesn't make it alright for me.

I walk through the store and I see something in the store I think I will like and start to get it and realize that either I don't really like it or I don't really want it bad enough to make it. This is "my way" of learning what foods I've eaten over the years because "I thought I should" because it was a healthy "diet" approved food. One of the stages in learning to eat intuitively according to Tribole's and Resch's IE book is to learn what foods that "you really like to eat". I remember reading about one of their patients who realized there were only 10 foods that she really liked and she made her eating work around those foods.

I'm sure others will give you how this works for them and hopefully you it will help you find one or a combo of ways that will help you find what will work for you.

pattygirl63
02-03-2014, 12:15 PM
I've only been doing this for 4-5 days now but I will say that I was a little disappointed getting on the scale this morning. No gain, no loss. It's weird because I FEEL skinnier today and I'm sad that the scale doesn't reflect that. It also sent me thinking about the foods that I ate and berate myself a little bit for it. I'm not giving up because feeling better is a great deal more desirable to me than just losing weight and feeling deprived. I'm just going to continue trusting myself that I will eat when and what I want and stop when I've had enough and hope that soon my body will stop telling me to eat fattening foods lol.

How do your clothes feel? You may be losing inches and your scales haven't caught up yet. Sometimes we can tell more by how our clothes fit than what the scales say. Also feeling lighter is a good thing, I think. I know right now my scales aren't moving, but my clothes feel loose, fasting blood sugar is coming down. I used my measuring tape the end of December and while I haven't lost much weight, my measuring tape was very nice to me. I will measure again the end of Feb.

SouthernMaven
02-03-2014, 12:33 PM
Shopping mindfully - how do you stock up on food? Would I be craving pigs in a blanket for breakfast if there weren't some leftover in my fridge after the Super Bowl? How do you shop healthfully and mindfully and keep your kitchen full of healthy foods that aren't junk? Or do you buy junk and let yourself be tempted? I'm trying to follow my intuition buy should I buy food without judgement either?

Most of the IE literature encourages you to have plenty of trigger foods available, which reinforces the practice of making peace with ALL food. The theory behind this is that if you have it available AND you know you can have it anytime you are HUNGRY, then you are legalizing these foods, which is the goal of IE.

If you have all these foods, however, and simply cannot stop eating them when you are NOT hungry, I'm not sure it's a good idea. I'm not speaking of an occasional lapse with increasing success at doing so; I'm speaking of those who are having NO success at all at doing this without the rigor of a diet.

And I do think that IE is not for everyone. I think one has to be at a certain place in their "dieting" life where they can put weight loss on the back burner and that they know they'll never diet again, no matter what.

Just my opinion, however.

Wannabeskinny
02-03-2014, 01:51 PM
What's the difference between IE, mindful eating and thintuition? That's a but confusing.

A little overboard today, struggling with eating only to satisfy hunger today. I ate pretty intuitively during the Super Bowl even amidst the chaos. But today with lots of goodies left over I couldn't control myself.

SouthernMaven
02-03-2014, 03:48 PM
What's the difference between IE, mindful eating and thintuition? That's a but confusing.



As far as I'm concerned, they are all the same thing, although "intuitive eating" I think is more aligned with the concept of eating ONLY when hungry, whereas "mindful eating" is more about savoring the food you do eat. Thintuition is nothing more than a marketing term used by Rob Stevens for his website and book. He never mentions the term "intuitive eating" but it's basically the same thing.

Don't worry about your lapse today, Wannabeskinny. If most of your eating has been strictly in response to true hunger rather than mouth hunger, then you're doing fine. You're not going to be perfect at it. I know when I first started I thought "Oh this is just so SIMPLE! Eat only when I'm hungry and stop when full." But it's not that easy at all. I do think it is for some people, but not most.

I will say that one thing that really helps me when I'm tempted to eat when not hungry is that I remember why I started this in the first place, and I remind myself just HOW MUCH I hated being on a diet and restricting food. Most of the time that keeps me on track. I find something else to do and promise myself that WHEN I GET HUNGRY I can have the same food I'm wanting at the moment I'm not hungry. More often than not, I end up eating something else...but not always.

I read a bit of Geneen Roth's book Breaking Free from Emotional Eating (which for the most part I didn't care for) and in it she talks about when she first started practicing IE that she ate cookies and/or cookie dough for most of her meals for almost two weeks. She'd sit down at the table with her friend that she was living with at the time, the table was set beautifully and she would eat all this in a somewhat formal setting. She eventually started eating a little protein but continued to eat this for most of her meals. After a few weeks she was sick to death of cookies.

Now I don't know if that really is true but I have had many people tell me that if they ate what they TRULY wanted for each meal they would eat nothing but junk forever. And they are convinced of that. I find that so hard to believe because I couldn't eat my favorite "indulgence" food - Zapp's Jalapeno chips - more than once for a meal, let alone every meal for two weeks. Heck, I couldn't eat a Longhorn Filet, salad with house dressing, and bread for one meal a day for two weeks, as much as I LOVE that meal! I just HAVE to have variety. I've always been a person who can't eat poorly for any length of time without craving the foods my body needs, and even when I eat very nourishing foods I have to have a wide variety of them as well.

But apparently not everyone is that way. Which was a revelation to me, I will admit.

pattygirl63
02-03-2014, 04:32 PM
Maven I agree with you wholeheartedly especially on this is not for everyone. The reason I believe it is for me is that this is was the "normal" for me until I was brainwashed into thinking that I had to eat 3 + meals a day. Which btw is how and when I started gaining weight and then ended up on the "diet" roller coaster.

Another thing I read today when looking at the IE book that really messed me up when I was following IE successfully. I was going llllooonnnggg periods of time without eating because I was not hungry. At that time I was on another IE website and I asked the question "how long can you go without eating on IE?" The answer derailed me. I was told that you could not go any longer than 5 hrs without eating. Of course now we are learning of people doing Intermittent Fasting who only eat during a 5 hr window. So their answer was not true for "all". If I had not listened to their warning, I might be thinner and happier with my eating now. There were lots of time when I was thin in my younger years eating only when hungry, I might go all day without eating and eat only one meal. Some days I needed a snack during the day before I ate my meal. Some days I might eat my meal around 5 or 6 and then there were days that I wasn't hungry until 9 or 10 at night. I just went with my hunger signals. I could sit with others while they ate and never eat a bite of food. I just enjoyed the fellowship with them. Strange thing is that I can still do that when eating with folks only because I get so busy with the conversation that I forget to eat more than a few bites. The next thing I know is that our meal is over and I just wasn't hungry for food, just desired the time with friends and family. I sure hope I can get back to living that way on a daily basis.

I agree to about eating the same thing at every meal until I'm sick of it. Now, I don't buy potato chips very often because I don't trust me with them. The reason being that there are times when I could sit and eat one whole huge bag at one sitting meal or snack... doesn't matter. However, there are other times that they could sit in the house and go stale. I just never know how they are going to affect me. However, I will get a bag of them if I really, really want them because I know better than to make them totally off limits. Same thing with nachos. So I make those a special treat when I go eat at Chili's or Wild Buffalo Wings and DH and I share an order.

For me IE is learning how to honor my hunger and then satisfy it. I realized this morning that I've been eating when I'm not hungry because I thought I needed to eat something. I'm going to work at changing that.

Love the conversations here as they really do help me and I hope it helps others as well.

SouthernMaven
02-03-2014, 04:57 PM
Trish, I believe it's in the Intuitive Eating book by Tribole and Resch that they say you should not go more than 5 hours without eating. One of the MANY reasons I don't like that book.

And speaking of books, the one I mentioned above - Geneen Roth's book - oh, YUCK and double-YUCK. It was all about her. I found it totally useless and really just sort of skimmed over it. After I realized how bad it was I went to amazon and read a few reviews of her books, including the one-star ones. (I suspect her books are all pretty much the same). A lot of these reviews echoed my own thoughts - that the book was more about her, her friends, her MOTHER (who she apparently has serious issues with), and her workshop participants. These women (including Geneen) seem riddled with all sorts of issues. I couldn't relate at ALL.

I won't be reading any more of her books. What a total waste of time.

Wannabeskinny
02-04-2014, 08:02 AM
It's interesting that everyone here is saying that IE is not for everyone. So far what I'm understanding from reading the Overfed Head (finished it!) is that this is the normal way of eating, our ability to eat when we're hungry and stop when we're full is our birthright and this ability resides within us all, and the whole point of intuitive eating is to get back down to the basics of eating for hunger. Why is this not for everyone? I would say that no matter what "diet" anyone chooses to follow that the principle of eating when you're hungry and stopping when you're full still applies.

Even if one decides to limit their portions, or keep junk food out of the house, you can still enjoy your food and be satisfied with what's on your plate, I think that mindful eating plays a role in that. If you're on a diet and you look at your plate and think "this is all i'm allowed to eat" then of course you're going to feel unsatisfied.

Anyway, yesterday was a difficult day for 2 reasons. First there was no motion on the scale when I expected there would be. I took that pretty hard, and it shoved me into looking at my food choices over the weekend from a dieting perspective. It caused me to think "of course I didn't loose weight, I ate a donut! Sugar is evil, must cut carbs!" Secondly, I was surrounded by superbowl left overs, feeling a little down, and wanting a bit of an escape. I'm fully aware that I was reaching for food to fill an emptiness rather than a hunger and that issue will probably arise again.

Not to say that there weren't some good strides as well though, I didn't eat mindlessly although I did relax a bit and that's ok. If this is going to be a muscle that I strengthen it doesn't happen by doing continuous reps for days on end, one meal is not going to derail me. Dinner was eating mindfully and as long as I can get back on track I'm not willing to hate myself for not being perfect - that's a part of me I need to leave behind.

Ironically, the scale moved down today by half a pound.

carolr3639
02-04-2014, 09:53 AM
Why is this not for everyone?I think it is. God gave us hunger and fullness for a reason.

Wannabeskinny
02-04-2014, 10:47 AM
I think it is. God gave us hunger and fullness for a reason.

Yey! I think that's where I'm headed with my experience here.

Hunger is a big concern for me. Or maybe that's not the right word, because hunger has meant a lot of things to me. It means loneliness, boredom, anxiety, stress, fear, doubt, emptiness. I hate to use the words "emotional eating" because there is something going on that is completely physiological and not at all emotional. Hunger is something I've been wanting to face for a long time. I've sort of known all along that hunger is the obstacle, it's the mountain that I need to make into a molehill.

For a while I've understood that facing the hunger is the big kahuna. It's what's going to make or break all of us. And all diets claim to stave off hunger. Quell the hunger, avoid the hunger, placate the hunger, tie us over until the next meal. High fiber diets claim that you'll feel fuller longer. High protein diets claim to keep hunger at bay. Low sugar diets claim to lower the hunger hormones. We're all skirting around the issue. We can't put a band aid on hunger. I don't want to avoid hunger. And I think that IE comes the closest to making peace with hunger. Naturally thin people understand hunger, they don't fear it, they don't avoid it. They experience it objectively but not emotionally.

I know that if I can get there, if I can learn how to live with hunger - I'm not talking starving here lol - then I can feel less scared of it. Mindful eating is almost Buddhist for me, it's about learning to find comfort within discomfort. It's about appreciating that discomfort for the vital role it plays in keeping us alive. I might be new to practicing IE, but I'm no fool. I know that calling it mindful eating, or thintuition or any marketing name is just a small way of explaining to myself that I need to stop eating for any reasons other than hunger. We live in a hungry world, hungry because some don't have enough to eat, hungry because those of us who have too much to eat are eating for the wrong reasons.

Locke
02-04-2014, 11:36 AM
I wish I could go more than a few hours between meals. I tend to eat lightly these days, though, so I need to eat sooner. I would rather stop eating on the less than full side of satisfied than the more than full. I've seen naturally thin friends gorge on food before and not eat anything for 24 hours or so. I don't think I'm ready for that yet. I am enjoying the feeling of not being heavy with food. My body likes smaller meals more often I guess.

Wannabeskinny
02-04-2014, 11:43 AM
That's an interesting observation and assessment Locke. I'm still trying to figure that out. I don't like eating often but with IE I end up eating more frequently these days. I'd love to find a balance. There are some tricks I found while dieting that worked well that go against IE principles.

I'm continuing my skinny observations still. I thought today about something my mother says sometimes. She is one of those naturally thin eaters. She says often that she doesn't feel like eating much of ages not active. She'll say something like "I can't believe your father ate that huge bowl of spaghetti! He hasn't even done anything today!" So I know that to her food equals fuel and doesn't feel entitled to eat on less activity.

Mazzy
02-04-2014, 12:53 PM
Wannabeskinny...about hunger....something about the feeling of deprivation goes right to the heart of all of us, I think. Any kind of deprivation, but hunger is the most crucial (next to breathing, I guess.) Just believing in abundance is counter-human, when we all have to struggle to survive in some way. But, if we can believe in abundance, I think we would be less anxious about a lot of things, hoping the food will be there when we need it, hoping there's enough "pretty" to go around so we're not stealing it from someone else, etc.

I am really struggling this month. I was doing so well for quite a while, but then after I got sick, everything started going downhill. I have such a hard time in the winter. This month, since Jan 1, it's been very difficult eating only when hungry and stopping when full. I had a New Year's party and probably drank too much, which I'm not used to. I think it messed up my system even more than it was from when I was sick. After that, I couldn't seem to stop eating. I've gained back all my weight, I'm sure. I don't weigh myself, so I can't prove it, but I can feel it. And the point is that I don't feel good physically or about myself when I'm like this.

I am now back to trying to eat mindfully and using mindfulness to evaluate my hunger level, but I'm finding that I'm getting tightness in my head - not quite a painful headache, but more like a squeezing sensation that doesn't want to go away, every time I feel a craving, but don't eat - when I'm not physically hungry. I truly don't think I'm hungry. It's almost like withdrawal...

I feel like I've been here a million times and wondering, is this going to go away? I'm feeling a little bit unsure of all of this. A few months ago, I felt so in control, but still, I look back and think I was secretly depriving myself, but I just wasn't admitting it. I don't want to feel deprived. I'm terrified of the pain.

Thing is, I'm not doing this to look good. I just want to feel good, and right now, I just don't. Overeating feels so gross to me. And I want to get back to my workouts, which always made me feel happier and more energized and capable.

I think my biggest problem is this issue of control. I don't want to control my food intake in the sense that I feel like it's an oppressiveness that I'll just end up rebelling against. If I can eat with kindness and self-compassion, devoid of control and power-tripping, then I should be okay. It's just finding that place has been difficult.

pattygirl63
02-04-2014, 01:17 PM
I remember years ago when I was in a diet group which had only 2 food plans to choose from. One was extremely strict with absolutely no starches allowed and the other one only allowed one slice of whole wheat toast with your breakfast. We were allowed only 3 meals a day and no snacks. I never really lost much weight, but I remember feeling like I was losing more than I was. Any way, one night a new lady came to our meeting. She had lost loads of weight and this was basically what she said...

"I know what I'm going to share with you is going to shock you and some of you probably aren't going to believe me. However, I have lost weight and I don't follow a diet. I eat anything I want to eat. If I want a banana split, I have a banana split. Now that may be the only thing I eat that day because that is all I wanted that day. But I eat whatever I want."

Well, we (even I who had stayed thin many years that way before gaining all the weight I was fighting to lose) all thought she must be crazy or lying. When I look back to what she said and how I ate when I was thin and every time that I successfully lost weight, I can only say in my defense is what Allen Carr says in his book; I had been brainwashed by "diets" into believing that was not possible and it was not healthy.

I agree with Carolr It really is for every, because God gave us hunger and fullness for a reason. Yes, I do believe we eat for nutrition to some extent but I also believe that God intends for us to enjoy what we eat as well as be satisfied. I also believe that if we were enjoying what we ate on a diet and being satisfied that there wouldn't be so many different diets out there. I think that was the point the woman who came to our meeting was trying to get across to us. The only thing I enjoyed about that diet was the eggs and bacon I had every morning. I felt cheated most of the time when I sat and ate salad, meat and non-starchy veggies while my family had the potatoes or rice I watched them enjoy. And I wasn't even losing any weight either. I actually felt like I was being punished/betrayed by my own body and didn't understand why. :?: And I tortured myself this way for years because I was afraid not to. Makes me wonder why I thought I had to do that.

No more. While I do like to count something at this time, today I am comparing WW pts with counting calories. I want to see what I'm really doing. So much easier to count calories if I'm going to count something than finding the pts on everything and a whole lot cheaper. Also I think it will be easier to do IE with calorie counting.

Great conversation girls. I am 70 yrs old trying to learn how to go back to eating the way I did growing up and a few yrs in my 20s when I was thin. My hope is that you girls will be able to learn this in your younger years so you can enjoy your life better.

Have a great day.

SouthernMaven
02-04-2014, 01:26 PM
For a while I've understood that facing the hunger is the big kahuna. It's what's going to make or break all of us. And all diets claim to stave off hunger. Quell the hunger, avoid the hunger, placate the hunger, tie us over until the next meal. High fiber diets claim that you'll feel fuller longer. High protein diets claim to keep hunger at bay. Low sugar diets claim to lower the hunger hormones. We're all skirting around the issue. We can't put a band aid on hunger. I don't want to avoid hunger. And I think that IE comes the closest to making peace with hunger. Naturally thin people understand hunger, they don't fear it, they don't avoid it. They experience it objectively but not emotionally.



One of the most important things that IE has taught me is that hunger is not an emergency. Whenever I dieted, I was either hungry or afraid of getting hungry. I don't fear hunger any more because I can eat whatever I feel is necessary to stop it.

When I say IE is not for everyone, it's not because I don't think everyone is capable of eating mindfully or intuitively; it's that in order to be able to make peace with food in their lives, people have to be in the proper mindset. They have to want to be able to eat intuitively more than they want to lose weight, for one thing. The weight loss, if any, will occur naturally once they become more in tune with their bodies.

Mazzy
02-04-2014, 01:28 PM
I think it is. God gave us hunger and fullness for a reason.

I agree. I wonder why some people don't see it.

Mazzy
02-04-2014, 01:31 PM
One of the most important things that IE has taught me is that hunger is not an emergency. Whenever I dieted, I was either hungry or afraid of getting hungry. I don't fear hunger any more because I can eat whatever I feel is necessary to stop it.

When I say IE is not for everyone, it's not because I don't think everyone is capable of eating mindfully or intuitively; it's that in order to be able to make peace with food in their lives, people have to be in the proper mindset. They have to want to be able to eat intuitively more than they want to lose weight, for one thing. The weight loss, if any, will occur naturally once they become more in tune with their bodies.

I agree with this, too...LOL

And, thank you for reminding me that it's okay to be hungry, and that the pain is not going to kill me.

I guess in a twisted way, for me, the idea that I can soothe over the pain with food is "compassionate" - whereas, allowing myself to feel hunger is forcing myself to feel pain (i.e. bad). I have convoluted things somehow. The fear comes from knowing that I will feel hunger (i.e. pain) over and over again, day after day...and that is what is terrifying.

How did I manage to take 10 steps back?

pattygirl63
02-04-2014, 04:52 PM
I am reading a book Diet Survivor's Book by Judith Matz and Ellen Frankel. I'm sure I've read it before, but just found it and decided to read again. I found a statement I thought was interesting. They use the term attuned eating for Intuitive eating. Strange thing is 11 yrs ago when I first married DH, I had never heard of either of these terms but I had decided to learn to tune into my body and I ate only when I was really hungry. "Attuned eating does more than solve your problems with food, it allows you to take back your life".

I thought that I would share the 5 stages of loss and grief as we contemplate the meaning of ending diets and becoming a diet survivor. These are summaries in my own words from Chapter 3 of the book

1. Denial is when we question whether we must truly give up on the idea that diets can make us permanently thin. Although diets fail 95 to 98% of the time leaving a small percentage that work, we have a tendency to hope that just maybe we will fall into that group. They say that dieting is seductive and it is a fantasy that is always dangling in from of us. So we are always looking for that "one" diet that will make us thin denying that diets do not work. So we fall into the trap of another diet and sometimes even try one again that didn't work for us before thinking that maybe we didn't do it right last time until we are finally convinced that diets really do fail. (I have to admit that I have fallen into this category sooo many times.)

2. Anger... This is when we may cry "Why me?" Our anger can be at directed at ourself as we berate our body. We may get angry at others because they seemingly are able to eat whatever they want and be thin, etc. Some times we get angry because people judge us by our size. When we are losing they are always giving their approval, but when we gain, they are silent. (I could have used the silence. I always hated "You have such a pretty face, you would be beautiful if you lost weight).

3. Bargaining. This is where IE makes sense to you, but you decide that you will do one more diet and be stronger and stick with it and lose the weight. Then when you get the weight down where you want it, you will live your life fee of diets. (Guilty of that one too.)

4. Depression. You are being asked to consider living your life without the goal of losing weight and the rewards that come with it that you have focused on when dieting. Sadness sets in as we shift our beliefs of the merits and requisites thinness become a difficult challenge. At this point, it feels like we are being asked to give up on ourselves. However they point out that "...the opposite is true. We are asking you to live an authentic life where your true self, that part of you that has been waiting for permission to start living, can begin breathing again". (I think this is where I am.)

5. Acceptance. This is where we admit that diets do fail and we are not going to diet any more in an effort to be thin. We accept the fact that diet wreak havoc on our bodies and our emotions and we are going to take care of ourselves as best we can and let "our weight settle in its natural range as a function of eating in an attuned manner" and engage in a level of activity that both fits our body and lifestyle. As a diet survivor we accept ourselves and others in their wholeness. This will enable us to live a life freedom and authenticity. (I look forward to getting to this stage and staying here. I've had short spurts of this, but never for long. I do so want to be at this stage for good.)

pattygirl63
02-05-2014, 01:49 AM
Did IE eating what I really wanted when I wanted and ate only as much as it took to satisfy me while counting calories and I ended my day eating 1220 calories for the day. I didn't set a goal of calories, just counted calories in the food that I ate. I am amazed and thrilled. I cancelled my WW online membership and it will end on March 27th. I think this IE with calorie counting will work out better because I was eating more than the points than allowed and feeling guilty. So I was shocked to find that I was actually only eating around 1200 calories even when eating over my daily points. Even my doctor set my calories at 1600 daily. I think just eating what I want when hungry and eating till satisfied even while counting the calories is the best way for me.
So no more diets or diet rules for me. Going to spend time learning to get in tune with my hunger and honor it.

Wannabeskinny
02-05-2014, 08:39 AM
When I say IE is not for everyone, it's not because I don't think everyone is capable of eating mindfully or intuitively; it's that in order to be able to make peace with food in their lives, people have to be in the proper mindset. They have to want to be able to eat intuitively more than they want to lose weight, for one thing. The weight loss, if any, will occur naturally once they become more in tune with their bodies.

I see what you mean. I don't know if I've necessarily hit rock bottom and can see no other way out, I just know instinctively that I cannot tether myself to a diet. It causes me to binge. I may binge anyway on IE but I'm not sure that bothers me so much. I've been a binger for a very long time and I don't expect to be perfect over night.

I think the problem people have with IE is that they don't really believe that diets don't work. In fact I think they believe that they fail the diet, it's not the diet's fault, it's "my" fault for not successfully following the diet. We're used to so much self blame that it's no wonder people get caught up in the vicious cycle of dieting.

Someone on another thread made a really brilliant comparison between eating and credit cards. Gosh I'll have to find her and give her credit but basically she was saying that if she takes in more than her body needs then she stores it and accrues "debt" much like when you incur debt on a credit card but don't have the funds to pay for it at the end of the month. I quite like that comparison, it helps me when I'm trying to decipher the moment of fullness as I eat.

Someone else here also compared hunger to a little dog nipping at your pant leg. I try to think of my hunger as that and try to figure out if it's real hunger or something I can ignore. Lots of good stuff learned here.

SouthernMaven
02-05-2014, 10:51 AM
Trish, Thank you for that summary. I can relate to many points there.

Wannabeskinny, I think you have a lot of insight into the process of IE. I will tell you that for me, each day brings some new "ah-ha" moment for me, even after practicing IE for almost a year (sometimes successfully, sometimes not).

Each day I find myself more and more accepting of my body as it is right now. That's a hard thing to embrace but I'm getting there, slowly but surely. Buying new clothes in my current size definitely helped me in this process, but now when I see myself in the mirror I am not nearly as critical as I once was. I still have a ways to go in this regard, but it gets easier every day. I think this is a key component to IE, although I fought against it for a long time. Then I finally realized (ah-ha!) by not being accepting of myself as I currently am that I was still in a diet frame of mind. If I'm not happy with my body, I am going to continually feel that I must do something to change it.

I have lots of friends who are overweight; I don't give their weight a second thought. They are my friends; they are funny, gracious, and beautiful people. If I don't give a fig about what they weigh, why can't I afford myself the same courtesy? When I finally thought about it in this way, I began to realize that they don't give a fig about MY weight either! Looking back on the last time I lost a significant amount of weight (in 2010) no one ever mentioned it! Can you believe that? I lost about 30 lbs and NOT A SINGLE PERSON NOTICED IT. Or if they did, they didn't say squat.

My husband & daughter knew I was on a diet and both of them did tell me I "looked great" and encouraged me. But other than that - nada. That tells me that my weight doesn't change the way anyone thinks about me. That's an important fact that I completely overlooked.

pattygirl63
02-05-2014, 12:21 PM
I shared this link to this article on IF thread but because of some of the things she says that relates so much to how IE works, I thought I would share the link here as well.

http://www.livestrong.com/blog/intermittent-fasting-can-get-lean/?utm_source=newsletter&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=0205

I dropped down 2.4 lbs just eating IE. I know that will probably be rare. Actually it really makes the ticker weight loss correct so it really wasn't any lbs lost. However this has taught me a very important lesson about IE. I was eating the "healthy/good" foods that a good "diet" says I should eat and I was well within my calorie/points count, but it wasn't the foods that my body needed to function properly. Which confirms what the book Diet Survivor says about eating attuned/intuitively to your body signals.

They say that our body is smart enough to tell us the food that it needs for us to eat so that it gets the nutrition that it needs to function as it should. Today, I believe this more than ever. Lord help me, I hope I finally have it in my head so that I will NEVER be tricked or tempted to ever do another diet. Because today I realized that my body has been telling me how to reverse diabetes. I have read that by eating whole grains that it will help to get insulin in control. Guess what my body is always calling for which some diets now a days says to eat either none or very little of? That's right grains. To me this is proof positive that the body will tell us what it needs.

Have a great IE day. I am. :)

pattygirl63
02-05-2014, 05:25 PM
More sharing from Diet Survivor's Handbook from Chapter 5.

This part answers the question of the difference between Stomach Hunger and Mouth Hunger.

"Stomach Hunger refers to physiological-based eating. This term reinforces the idea that the cue to eat originates in your stomach. Each time you experience physical hunger, play it up by reminding yourself that it is wonderful that you are hungry--you get to eat!

"In fact, for a diet survivor, stomach hunger indicates not only that you get to eat, but that you must eat. This attitude counteracts some of the damage done to you by dieting. If you are like many dieters, there were times you felt very hungry but ignored these signals so that you would eat less. This behavior made you feel virtuous, in control--and physically uncomfortable. Although this is normal for a dieter, it makes no sense!

The concept of stomach hunger also helps reduce guilt associated with eating. Dieters spend much time feeling bad about decisions to eat, creating anxiety and negative feelings. Instead of experiencing a constant sense of doing something wrong, embrace this consistent, reasonable way to determine when to eat. Tell yourself 'I am hungry. I am supposed to eat!' Over time you'll find that you experience great pleasure and calmness from your ability to identify your hunger and feed yourself."

Mouth hunger refers to psychological-based eating which means reaching for food when you're not physically hungry". (Strange this is I always thought this as just wanting the taste of food which I guess is included but not necessarily so.) "Maybe your eating for emotional reasons or because something looks good. Whatever the source, it has nothing to do with a physical need for food."

I am sharing this part of the chapter in order to help us make the transition.

"It's important to note that early on most of your eating will continue to be from mouth hunger. Remember, if you could simply read about these concepts--eating when you are hungry, eating what you are really hungry for, and stopping when you are full-- and then implement them immediately, you would not be a person struggling with an eating problem. Furthermore, if you try to view this as the correct way to eat and berate your mouth hunger, you'll only feel like you're on another diet; the Stomach Hunger diet!

Trust us, this process takes time and practice, but you will see progress. For now, focus on collecting stomach hunger experiences, one at a time. Diet survivors must let go of the diet mentality of being "good" or "bad" and instead thing about a general move in the direction of stomach hunger. You'll find a strong incentive to move in this direction: you feel better, physically and psychologically.

Each time you reach for food, ask yourself "Is this stomach hunger or mouth hunger?" If the answer is stomach hunger, tell yourself that it means you need to eat, and ask yourself what you are hungry for. If the answer is mouth hunger, don't beat yourself up. Simply ask yourself if you can wait until you feel physical hunger. If you can, fine. If not, eat without a word of reproach to yourself."

Wannabeskinny
02-05-2014, 05:47 PM
Thanks for posting that patty girl I am indeed struggling with that. It's so easy to describe myself as good or bad. You're right, if it was easy them we wouldn't have this problem to begin with. I'm happy with the fact that I am making progress and that will do for now. I am stumbling over identifying hunger and I'm holding off eating so that I can really experience the physical sensation and learn it. It's leading to a little over eating but nothing tragic so far. I'm probably also under eating and stopping before I'm truly sated causing a bit more frequent hunger than I'm comfortable with. I'll chalk it up to being part of the learning process.

Wannabeskinny
02-06-2014, 09:21 AM
Something I've learned about myself over the past few days: I rarely finish 2 eggs, even if they're prepared in my favorite way (benedict!). Genius revelation, I'm used to eating 2-3 eggs at a time.

SouthernMaven
02-06-2014, 10:46 AM
Good morning, everyone.

I wanted to let everyone know that I won't be on the forum for the remainder of February. There are a couple of reasons - one, I'm preparing for a garage sale which I want to have sometime in March, and it's so easy for me to get distracted by so many other things, including this forum.

The other reason is because I've decided to eliminate - at least temporarily - any talk of or reading about food. That includes IE. I've noticed that if I'm reading about it or discussing it on forums I'm still thinking about food. My goal with IE is to have food be such an insignificant part of my life that the only time I ever think about it is when I'm hungry or planning what I'm going to cook for hubby and me.

I will check back in next month and report if being off the forum was helpful for me or not. In the meantime, I wish all of you the best with your own efforts.

Mazzy
02-06-2014, 12:45 PM
More sharing from Diet Survivor's Handbook from Chapter 5.

Each time you reach for food, ask yourself "Is this stomach hunger or mouth hunger?" ......... If the answer is mouth hunger, don't beat yourself up. Simply ask yourself if you can wait until you feel physical hunger. If you can, fine. If not, eat without a word of reproach to yourself."

This.

I should check out this book. Sounds good. To me, the "if you can handle it" part is what's important. I find that when I ask myself that question, I almost invariable can handle it and I am empowered by being compassionate towards myself in the process.

The book that set me in motion was Normal Eating for Normal Weight, by Sheryl Canter, which pretty much says the same thing. Basically, you do the best you can. She says, every time you eat from stomach hunger is one step closer, and that you aren't going to be perfectly eating out of stomach hunger from day one. Almost like, each time you wait until you're truly hungry, you get a sort of pat on the back for yourself. The more you do it, the more you like it, and it snowballs, till you eventually realize how much better it feels to be hungry when you eat (but not ravenous). I also find over time, that I naturally don't stuff myself when I do it because I find that while practicing being slightly hungry, I prefer not to have a full stomach. It reinforces itself on both ends, believe it or not.

Another thing she says is that there's never any real benefit from eating when you're not hungry. It seems like eating the candy bar in the moment of anxiety will help to reduce your anxiety, but sitting with the feelings instead is much more productive and you learn more about yourself and feel better afterward. So, every time you feel so compelled, it helps to remember that there's an alternative, and that's to be present with the pain you're trying to avoid. As with fear of hunger, fear of emotional pain when faced gets better with time and actually turns around into something of a blessing, which is connection.

For me, though, even as I say all this, if there's too much emotional pressure, I will find myself not being able to handle it and go back to overeating. So, I still need help in that area.

pattygirl63
02-06-2014, 01:28 PM
Maven I feel the same way about the talk about food. I want to get away from thinking about it all the time. I think that is one of the things that drew me to IE. You will be missed and check back when you want. I think I will probably end up coming here less often too not only because I don't want to get locked into thinking of this as a diet, but I am beginning to feel like moving around more.

Mazzy I find it interesting that more and more books on IE or similar are popping up more and more. I think they basically say the same thing. Thanks for sharing as it is helpful.

I have another weight loss. But let me say that I have been fighting to just stay around 232 for a few years now as I just could not seem to get under that number. Again yesterday I ate just what I wanted, enjoyed it and stopped when satisfied. I even broke some "diet" rules. #1. The only veggies I had was on a sandwich that I wanted and I ate it after I got home from church around 9:30 last night even though I ate at Arby's yesterday. Something I would never have done on a "diet". I didn't have breakfast until around 11:30 am because I didn't want it. I ended up eating between 1500 to 1700 calories and I was down another 1.8 lbs. I've always done this. I remember going out to eat and eating more food than usual and come home thinking I had "blown" my "diet" for that day to only find that the next day I would have a good weight loss. I've always heard that some times we don't eat enough, but never put much stock into it because "diets" say you "must" eat less. I've also heard of people recycling their carbs or calories. I've come to believe through IE that our bodies don't function to a "set" number of calories that we should be eating each and every day. I suspect that it functions better when we eat just the amount it tells us that it needs for each day. I have decided to do a scientific experiment of my own to see if this is true, but instead of setting a goal of calories that I will reach for, I am keeping a daily count of Calories used. I write down what I eat, how much I eat and how many calories it was and then total for each day. My hypothesis is to see if our bodies actually live on a set # of points or one amount of calories everyday or if it actually varies from day to day. I will do this the rest of this month and let you know what I learn.

Mazzy
02-06-2014, 02:45 PM
I've come to believe through IE that our bodies don't function to a "set" number of calories that we should be eating each and every day. I suspect that it functions better when we eat just the amount it tells us that it needs for each day.

Totally agree with this.

All I have to do is watch my 2-yr old. He scares me sometimes when he goes almost a whole day without eating and then suddenly it's supper time and he devours a whole bowl of pasta with sauce, cheese, etc. And, me, being like every other mama out there, I have to force myself not to ask all the time: are you hungry? do you want to eat something? I'm finally coming to the conclusion that he has a voice now and if he needs to eat, he will definitely tell me. He certainly doesn't hold back with his needs or opinions.

And to watch him flying all over the place like a maniac - you wonder, where in the world does that energy come from? Well, I'll tell you it certainly doesn't come from being weighted down by loads of food he doesn't want.

Wannabeskinny
02-07-2014, 09:18 AM
Good luck Maven we'll miss you.

I know some have been mentioned on this thread, are there any books in particular that people love about IE? Specifically I want to know about hunger, how to address it, something that focuses on hunger.

I overate a bit at lunch yesterday but I found that I wasn't hungry for dinner. I had a few bites of my sandwich but didn't have it in me to finish it. I'm still trying to find my comfort zone of fullness. I think I'm doing an ok job assessing when I'm full but I am thinking I should eat just a little bit more because frequent meals make very uncomfortable and they make me think about food more than I want to. Is it ok to push my fullness a bit so that I don't get hungry quite as quickly?

pattygirl63
02-07-2014, 01:21 PM
Wannabeskinny I really don't have a favorite IE book. I am enjoying this Diet Survivor's Handbook. It breaks IE done into 60 lessons, but I am just reading through it right now which is the way it suggests doing at first. I do implement some of the things as I go and I see a lot of things that seems to be helping me. However, I've been working at getting my head around IE for a number of years. I think it is helping me to do that mainly because it has shown me the stages of IE that I've shared with y'all above in previous posts. However, I've been here before where I thought I had it all figured out and would NEVER try another diet only to find myself trying some diet ONE MORE TIME.

I would say do what a lot of us here have done. Some go to the library and get a book to read and if they like it and want it then they purchase it. A much more economical way to go. Some when we hear of a new book we think would help us go to Amazon.com and read reviews etc and some times you can read a few ages before we decide if we want to spend the money on it. There are a lot of good ones out there.

When I share how this is working for me right now, please remember that I've been trying to lose anything for years. I am at the place in IE where I am doing it so well that it is finally working for me. However, remember this is also a ONE DAY AT A TIME thing. As shared above, I've been at this place in IE before and found myself back trying one more diet. I do so hope that this time that I am finally making IE my lifestyle. I seem to be eating the way I actually ate when I was a teenager which is a combo of Intermittent Fasting and Intuitive Eating. I didn't plan to combine them but that is the way I "naturally" get hungry. I only have my coffee in the morning and some where between 1 and 2 or 3 I begin to get hungry and want something to eat. Then I usually want a snack around 5 or 6. Then some time between 8 or 9, I am ready to eat something again. I am usually through by then which makes my eating window fit IF because I'm eating between 6 or 7 hrs and fasting between 17 or 18 hrs.

This is so natural for me and so far I am never hungry.

Y'all have a nice weekend.

pattygirl63
02-07-2014, 01:29 PM
Good luck Maven we'll miss you.

I know some have been mentioned on this thread, are there any books in particular that people love about IE? Specifically I want to know about hunger, how to address it, something that focuses on hunger.

I overate a bit at lunch yesterday but I found that I wasn't hungry for dinner. I had a few bites of my sandwich but didn't have it in me to finish it. I'm still trying to find my comfort zone of fullness. I think I'm doing an ok job assessing when I'm full but I am thinking I should eat just a little bit more because frequent meals make very uncomfortable and they make me think about food more than I want to. Is it ok to push my fullness a bit so that I don't get hungry quite as quickly?

Sorry, I forgot to answer your other question.

I personally do not like the full/stuffed feeling. However, I don't always know when I am satisfied so there are times when I suddenly realize that I am starting to feel full and seemingly have missed the satisfied signal for some reason. So I have to use that feeling to help me know that I need to stop. I haven't really noticed if eating until that feeling happens if it helps me stay satisfied or not. I agree though that it would be good to observe and learn from it. So thanks for sharing.

One of the lessons in the Diet Survivor's Handbook that might help you is to write down what you ate when you have that experience and make note of how your stomach feels and also write down how long it was before you were hungry again. Doing that you will also find out if what you ate is really what your body wanted or not. Hope this helps.

Wannabeskinny
02-08-2014, 08:48 AM
Let me tell you about lunch yesterday hehe. I decided to make some pasta with cream sauce. It's something I was craving for a couple of days. I NEVER allow myself to eat it because... well you know - the carbs, the fat, the cheese, the calories!!! Plus hubby doesn't like cream-based sauces so it's not something I've had for a very long time. Usually for lunch I make a salad or something else quick. But no, this time I took the time to slice the mushrooms and the garlic, like real proper cooking! I made a big bowl of it and sat down and ate it like a proper human being. Savoring each bite. I was really tucking in to it. Then at some point I very abruptly put my fork down. I thought maybe I was eating too much and said to myself that I'll take a 2 minute break and if I still want some at the end of the 2 minutes I'll continue eating. Well, it turns out I was full so I didn't eat the rest of it.

The best part was that after I ate it I felt... Happy!! I didn't feel guilty, I didn't feel angry with myself, I didn't feel like a failure, I didn't feel like I needed to punish myself. I even went on to describe to my colleague later that day what an awesome lunch I had. The rest of the day I didn't feel hunger. I skipped dinner, I felt perfectly satisfied with that big lunch. I did have some mouth hunger which I satisfied by eating a couple of peanut M&Ms and that's all it was "they hit the spot."

Being free of guilt is kind of major. Thanks for listening.

Terra1984
02-08-2014, 06:40 PM
Im always working now numbers 3 and 9

CindySunshine
02-08-2014, 08:01 PM
I have been trying to stay away from too much food talk, too but I just wanted to applaud Wannabe for enjoying her lunch! Perfect! It feels so good when it works it is really motivating for the next opportunity. Talk about making peace with food. YES.

I've been doing really great and I almost hate to talk about it for fear I will jinx it or overthink. One thing that helps me is having the fixings ready for a couple recipes that sound good so you are ready and can mentally go through the options. I ordered a wok off amazon for $27 it is incredibly nice and I've started to play with stir frys. What a great way to eat a ton of veggies. Today it was shrimp with bok choy, mushrooms, et al. Yummy.

I've been doing the yoga and it started because I had aching shoulders but I think it is helping me on the mindfulness level, too. They always tell you to set your intentions and my manta is

Presence (it's only about right now for the next hour)
Pride (as in glad I hauled myself to class I'm doing it)
Patience (one day at a time just keep doing what you are doing)
Peace (happy for all that is good, satisfaction)

When I feel good, IE is well easy, intuitive. It just flows from taking care of myself. Sounds crazy but man it's working at least for today.

Wannabeskinny
02-09-2014, 09:36 AM
Thanks Cindysunshine. I completely understand people don't want food talk and I apologize if anyone is upset by it. I guess I'm at the stage where I really am trying to make peace with food, for me I have to stop villainizing food and maybe this is the first step for me - allowing myself to eat the foods I've been disallowing myself. I've been psychologically addicted to low-carb and I started hating myself for it. It made my cravings so intense and unavoidable and I haven't been able to shake off a pound because of it. It's like being addicted to a bad-boy ex boyfriend. You hate him but you always manage to hook up with him lol. That's how I am with carbs. I hate carbs and then I'm always sneaking around eating chips and bread. It's pathetic really, I'll just have some bread right out in the open, get my fill of it (which is much less than I expected) and get it over with. I guess I always thought I was addicted to chips and I certainly can't deny that I love them. But just the thought that I'm allowed to have them takes away their irresistibility for me. I haven't thought about pasta since I had it the other day, normally when I ate pasta I considered it "cheating" and then it would inevitably lead to a binge. But since now it was "allowed" I haven't wanted it since. Craving satisfied, it has no hold over me anymore.

pattygirl63
02-09-2014, 03:30 PM
Let me tell you about lunch yesterday hehe. I decided to make some pasta with cream sauce. It's something I was craving for a couple of days. I NEVER allow myself to eat it because... well you know - the carbs, the fat, the cheese, the calories!!! Plus hubby doesn't like cream-based sauces so it's not something I've had for a very long time. Usually for lunch I make a salad or something else quick. But no, this time I took the time to slice the mushrooms and the garlic, like real proper cooking! I made a big bowl of it and sat down and ate it like a proper human being. Savoring each bite. I was really tucking in to it. Then at some point I very abruptly put my fork down. I thought maybe I was eating too much and said to myself that I'll take a 2 minute break and if I still want some at the end of the 2 minutes I'll continue eating. Well, it turns out I was full so I didn't eat the rest of it.

The best part was that after I ate it I felt... Happy!! I didn't feel guilty, I didn't feel angry with myself, I didn't feel like a failure, I didn't feel like I needed to punish myself. I even went on to describe to my colleague later that day what an awesome lunch I had. The rest of the day I didn't feel hunger. I skipped dinner, I felt perfectly satisfied with that big lunch. I did have some mouth hunger which I satisfied by eating a couple of peanut M&Ms and that's all it was "they hit the spot."

Being free of guilt is kind of major. Thanks for listening.

Great accomplishment!!! The book I'm reading tells us to do and keep doing exactly what you did. Write down what you experienced in your stomach and how you felt emotionally. As you build on and remember these things, you will become stronger and stronger and more successful at what you are doing. You are doing a great job!!!

pattygirl63
02-09-2014, 03:38 PM
I have been trying to stay away from too much food talk, too but I just wanted to applaud Wannabe for enjoying her lunch! Perfect! It feels so good when it works it is really motivating for the next opportunity. Talk about making peace with food. YES.

I've been doing really great and I almost hate to talk about it for fear I will jinx it or overthink. One thing that helps me is having the fixings ready for a couple recipes that sound good so you are ready and can mentally go through the options. I ordered a wok off amazon for $27 it is incredibly nice and I've started to play with stir frys. What a great way to eat a ton of veggies. Today it was shrimp with bok choy, mushrooms, et al. Yummy.

I've been doing the yoga and it started because I had aching shoulders but I think it is helping me on the mindfulness level, too. They always tell you to set your intentions and my manta is

Presence (it's only about right now for the next hour)
Pride (as in glad I hauled myself to class I'm doing it)
Patience (one day at a time just keep doing what you are doing)
Peace (happy for all that is good, satisfaction)

When I feel good, IE is well easy, intuitive. It just flows from taking care of myself. Sounds crazy but man it's working at least for today.

CONGRATULATIONS for finding your way for IE to work for you. I don't like thinking about or talking about food a lot either as I just don't want it to be the center of my life any more. I'm happy for you. And I agree, we must look at this "one day at a time". :)

CindySunshine
02-09-2014, 06:00 PM
Ladies a quick suggestion. Have you ever looked at the website summertomato .com? I discovered it about a year ago and just like the vegetable recipes and things. This gal just wrote a book, too.

But check out under the Habits tab 'How to eat half a donut' article. It's rather about intuitive eating.

One other tidbit. We've been told so much about mini meals and nibbling, but at least for me it works better to get hungry and then eat to a reasonable level of satisfaction. Then I am comfortable and feel energized and stop thinking about eating so often and much. But whatever works for you and maybe this is just a personal thing.

Wannabeskinny
02-10-2014, 11:05 AM
Ladies a quick suggestion. Have you ever looked at the website summertomato .com? I discovered it about a year ago and just like the vegetable recipes and things. This gal just wrote a book, too.

But check out under the Habits tab 'How to eat half a donut' article. It's rather about intuitive eating.

One other tidbit. We've been told so much about mini meals and nibbling, but at least for me it works better to get hungry and then eat to a reasonable level of satisfaction. Then I am comfortable and feel energized and stop thinking about eating so often and much. But whatever works for you and maybe this is just a personal thing.

Cool site! I read the donut article and a couple of things stuck out

"For me, delicious food is a given. So when I encounter yet another tasty food, it has less pull over me."

"Even when I find a truly spectacular donut it doesnít take much willpower to stop myself from overdoing it. I know from experience how much flour and sugar my body can tolerate before feeling sick...Why would I subject myself to multiple hours of discomfort when I get most of the pleasure from the first few bites anyway?....Besides, cauliflower has never treated me this way."

Wannabeskinny
02-10-2014, 11:17 AM
Funny thing happened yesterday (spoiler alert: this is about food so skip ahead if you're avoiding food talk)

I had a mindful breakfast and then set about planning a binge. This is nothing new to me, I've been a life long binger and eating in secret is a habit that has been particularly difficult for me to break. So binging in secret goes like this - I say that I'm running out to go shopping/errands or whatever. Then I go to a restaurant by myself and eat way way way too much. Then I come home and have dinner. Ok? pathetic I know. So yesterday I set about to do just this, out of habit, out of stress, I don't know. I decided to approach this without guilt since I've been really enjoying eating without guilt lately and haven't found it hard. I went to a steakhouse. I ordered what I usually would have ordered: a steak, french fries and a salad with ranch dressing. They usually bring bread and butter too but I didn't want any, like none at all I sent it away as soon as it came. Odd, usually I polish that off too. I ate very mindfully despite my intention to just eat. I ate slowly, stopped when I was full and when I looked at my plate when I was done I'd barely eaten any of it. But I was completely full. What I was seeing and what I was feeling were at odds with eachother. I took it to go. Suddenly the manager appears and is looking very concerned. He asked me if everything was alright, was there something wrong with the food and if there was a problem with the steak he'd be happy to fix it. I guess he was surprised at how little of it I ate too. I left and had a bit of a cry about it, not because I was sad but because I've never sidestepped a binge like that before, especially when I wasn't even intending to.

I'm not silly enough to think that it will always be this easy but so far this has been easy, and that steak is still in the fridge and I haven't had the slightest inclination to eat any. I've lost 2.5lbs in a week and my diet has included pasta, chocolate (daily!), bread, potatoes, dressing, meat, I even had a bowl of cereal the other day. And I'm not hungry. And I'm not out of control. And I'm not cheating... well there's nothing to cheat on come to think of it. And I'm not upset or deprived or overly full of emotions. I'm a little freaked out.

Wannabeskinny
02-10-2014, 11:37 AM
You know when you hear skinny people say they love chocolate, or donuts or french fries? I always thought they were lying. Seriously though I couldn't figure out how someone who weighs 120lbs "likes" french fries. I used to think "I like french fries and have the thighs to prove it." But now I get it. They like it, they eat it, and then they stop lol.

CindySunshine
02-10-2014, 11:54 AM
Wannabe terrific! And while challenges of course are ahead soak up these positive experiences to recall as a powerful motivation in weaker moments.

You know I used to really love donuts and would buy 2 or 3 eat them all to feel terrible all day. I finally just got it that all that sugar especially on an empty stomach was an experience I no longer enjoyed at any level and I just quit doing that.

Duh.

Mazzy
02-10-2014, 11:56 AM
I'm a little freaked out.

It's called excitement!

Let it be exciting... :carrot:

pattygirl63
02-10-2014, 02:12 PM
Cool site! I read the donut article and a couple of things stuck out

"For me, delicious food is a given. So when I encounter yet another tasty food, it has less pull over me."

"Even when I find a truly spectacular donut it doesnít take much willpower to stop myself from overdoing it. I know from experience how much flour and sugar my body can tolerate before feeling sick...Why would I subject myself to multiple hours of discomfort when I get most of the pleasure from the first few bites anyway?....Besides, cauliflower has never treated me this way."

I never have problems with donuts. I think the fact that I had a diet doctor who always told us that eating a donut was equivalent to eat a whole loaf of bread. I have since learned that isn't exactly true, but when I see a donut, I still see a whole loaf of bread. I still would eat one if I wanted it, but I find that I don't. In fact, they have them at church before service and also at the ladies meeting we have once a month. At our last ladies meeting, there wasn't much to choose from so I took a donut hole and only ate 2 small bites (about 1/2) of it and had no desire for more.

When I was younger, my family would get together and we would eat until we were miserable. One night I was so sick all night and I prayed and promised God and myself that if I lived through that night that I would never eat so much that I would feel that way again and I don't. That is why I always say that I like to eat until I feel satisfied. I still have not perfected that in IE and sometimes I feel like I'm starting to feel full, but I never let myself eat until I am miserably full. So I don't let me get to that point. I promise you that it is a miserable way to live.

pattygirl63
02-10-2014, 02:21 PM
You know when you hear skinny people say they love chocolate, or donuts or french fries? I always thought they were lying. Seriously though I couldn't figure out how someone who weighs 120lbs "likes" french fries. I used to think "I like french fries and have the thighs to prove it." But now I get it. They like it, they eat it, and then they stop lol.

When I was thin, I actually loved french fries every once in a while. As I've thought back to those days, I realized the difference in then and now. Back then, I didn't think I had to have anything other than an order of fries. I would go out with my friends or boy friend. They would order what they wanted. When it was my turn to order, I usually would only have a regular drink. However, if I wanted just fries... that was ALL that I ordered. I didn't think I had to have them with any other food unless I really wanted other food and I don't remember thinking that I had to eat it all because most of the time I could never eat all the food when I ate in restaurants. Makes me wonder why and when I changed.

pattygirl63
02-10-2014, 02:27 PM
IE is so amazing how it works. Yesterday I never really got satisfied. I had made a meal because DGS was here and I don't think I really wanted it. I seemed to be hungry all day. This morning, I got up and wanted a shake about mid-morning. I haven't been hungry since. So far nothing comes to mind that I want. DH doesn't seem to be hungry yet either. We kind of winging it today.

How wonderful that we can eat when we are actually hungry without guilt and not eat if we are not.

We are all learning at our own pace how IE works for us individually and I think that is wonderful.

carolr3639
02-10-2014, 02:31 PM
What do you do when you are hungry but are doing something then when you are finished you're not hungry?

Wannabeskinny
02-10-2014, 02:34 PM
When I was thin, I actually loved french fries every once in a while. As I've thought back to those days, I realized the difference in then and now. Back then, I didn't think I had to have anything other than an order of fries. I would go out with my friends or boy friend. They would order what they wanted. When it was my turn to order, I usually would only have a regular drink. However, if I wanted just fries... that was ALL that I ordered. I didn't think I had to have them with any other food unless I really wanted other food and I don't remember thinking that I had to eat it all because most of the time I could never eat all the food when I ate in restaurants. Makes me wonder why and when I changed.

When I read the overfed head book one thing that struck out at me was that eating intuitively is something we're all born with. It's a skill we all had and then unlearned. So you're tapping into your past knowledge. You lost it along the way but you're finding it along the way. No big deal, it's something you already know how to do, no big deal. That's what's so easy about it. Way to go!

Wannabeskinny
02-10-2014, 02:36 PM
What do you do when you are hungry but are doing something then when you are finished you're not hungry?

Nothing. That just means I wasn't truly hungry to begin with. Hunger only goes away by eating. If you can distract yourself long enough for hunger to go away then you were craving food for something other than hunger b

CindySunshine
02-10-2014, 04:17 PM
Right answer wannabe! But I will say that even real hunger ebbs and flows so I can be starving and if I can't eat the intense urge passes. But it usually returns before very long.

I just got an email from summertomato that I thought was also worth sharing. I like this gal, she's a little paleo with excluding things but otherwise I like her approach.


Summer Tomato: Surfing the Urge: How to Quench Cravings

Surfing the Urge: How to Quench Cravings
Posted: 10 Feb 2014 11:00 AM PST

Photo by Aristocrats-hat

You probably know by now that I’m not the biggest fan of willpower. It’s weak. It’s fallible. And it often backfires when we need it most.

If you were dating willpower I’d tell you to dump the jerk immediately. Seriously, you can do better.

The reason I’m so hard on willpower is because the vast majority of the people I talk to still believe it is the solution to their health and weight struggles, and it’s not.

For long-term goals, willpower is far too unreliable to carry you through. Eventually it will break down, and the rebound you experience will be far worse than if you weren’t trying to control your behavior at all.

That said, willpower can be incredibly powerful for short-term goals. When you need to study for an exam or tolerate your family during the holidays, self-control is often your greatest asset. The most effective foodists must learn when and how to use willpower to your advantage, and when to let it go and fall back on habits.

When it comes to food, one of the best uses for willpower is when you’re experiencing cravings. Cravings are internal signals that drive you to act against your better judgement. They can come on suddenly and be intensely powerful, driving all else from your mind except the object of desire.


Cravings are insidious because they do not reflect a real need or emergency, but they seem to hijack your brain into believing that the universe cannot continue unless you get what you crave.

It’s almost like it isn’t you that controls your mind anymore, but some dark force that conspires against your best intentions. Giving into cravings feels so necessary when you do it, but totally icky afterward because you get this sneaking suspicion that it wasn’t you calling the shots. It’s almost like someone else took over your brain.

Fortunately, cravings can be tamed. But the most effective method for quenching cravings is very counterintuitive, so will require practice and a bit of faith in the method.

First, if you’re experiencing cravings regularly you should always start by ensuring your habits aren’t triggering cravings more often than necessary. Be sure you’re eating a wide variety of nutrient dense foods, and not lacking any major nutrients like protein, slowly-digesting carbohydrates, fats, vitamins or minerals.

Also use techniques to reduce stress, and put yourself on a regular schedule of eating, sleeping and exercise to optimize your natural biological rhythms.

Remove obvious triggers like candies and other snack foods from your house and office if possible.

Even under ideal circumstances, almost everyone will experience a craving at some time or another. When these hit, don’t try to fight them or distract yourself from them. As we’ve seen, these techniques tend to backfire and induce more frequent and intense cravings down the line. And when we give in, we tend to go overboard because of the what-the-**** effect.

Instead of fighting with your craving, use a technique called surfing the urge. Urge surfing is a technique for riding out a craving without giving into it. I first learned about this technique in Kelly McGonigal’s brilliant book, The Willpower Instinct, which is the best book I’ve read on self-control and behavioral change.

Surfing the urge is based on mindfulness practice, and has been shown to be far more effective at increasing self-control and decreasing relapse than methods that rely on distraction or trying to push the urge away.

The first essential component of urge surfing is understanding that all cravings eventually pass, whether or not you give in to them. The secret to getting through the craving is riding it out like a wave.

Instead of being afraid of failure and wishing the urge would away, observe it passively and without judgement. Understand that it will come on suddenly, grow and build, peak, then crash and dissipate.

Cravings almost never last more than 30 minutes, so once that time passes you will be in the clear.

Next time you feel a craving come on, don’t panic. Instead find a comfortable seat and sit up straight. Close your eyes and focus on your breath. When the discomfort of the craving grabs your attention, notice the feeling without judgment, as if you were on an alien planet and just trying to observe an interesting new phenomenon.

Notice if and where the feeling manifests in your body. Is your heart beating faster? Are you salivating? Is your jaw tense? Are your hands sweaty? Observe how your body reacts to the craving, then gently take your attention back to your breath and let the feeling go.

This urge surfing technique has been shown to reduce the intensity and frequency of cravings. More important, it makes it much less likely you will give in to them.

For this technique to be most effective, practice mindfulness when you are not experiencing a craving. Try spending 5 minutes each morning just sitting and focusing on your breath. When you notice an itch or a discomfort, observe it passively without acting on it. Notice how it dissipates without you doing anything. Bring your attention back to your breath whenever you remember.

You can learn the full urge surfing technique from scientist Sarah Bowen in this audio file.

Have you tried mindfulness or surfing the urge to quench cravings?


You are subscribed to email updates from Summer Tomato

TNChunkyGal
02-10-2014, 06:24 PM
I really admire those of you who are succeeding on Intuitive Eating but I really fear that it would never work for me. I am definitely a compulsive overeater and would eat candy, ice cream, and cookies all day long if I let myself (which I have in the past). I have to make an effort to plan out every meal, write it in my food diary, and keep track of my calories, carbs, protein, etc. How does anyone get passed the "I want to binge" mentality???

CindySunshine
02-10-2014, 06:30 PM
TN have you read the various books? You can get past it and so freeing...

Wannabeskinny
02-10-2014, 07:40 PM
I really admire those of you who are succeeding on Intuitive Eating but I really fear that it would never work for me. I am definitely a compulsive overeater and would eat candy, ice cream, and cookies all day long if I let myself (which I have in the past). I have to make an effort to plan out every meal, write it in my food diary, and keep track of my calories, carbs, protein, etc. How does anyone get passed the "I want to binge" mentality???

I'm totally new at this IE stuff but I can tell you that I thought the exact same thing. I'm not lying and this is not "working for me" in the sense that its a diet. It's working inexplicably and the only way I can describe it is that all the planning, counting and taking care with food did not work no matter how many times I did it. It always failed in the end. I could stick to it for a while maybe a long whole and inevitably I got sick of the restrictions. The Overfed Head is a quick read, it's free to download and is a good intro to IE. I read it hesitantly but it made me realize what I really wanted - to be free of food restriction!

Food restriction has been the main culprit of my demise. I have always thought of myself as a diet failure. I can't stick with any diet long enough. As soon as I see results I binge. My experience with diets have been very short but extremely frequent. And I lose a pound, and gain 2lbs. It's subtle but it happens every time. I couldn't face another "lifestyle change" or another restriction. I didn't want to become a person who gave up a whole group or have to watch what I ate forever. Truly, I just don't want to think about food. I DO have nutritional goals - I want to eat more veggies, rely on less carbs and grains and not eat sugar very often. But I'm not willing to restrict these items as a means to losing weight because every time I've done that I've ended up binging. All these things are around my house right now, sugar, cookies, cereal, chips, etc. I can't explain it, but I don't crave them.

Mazzy
02-11-2014, 08:38 AM
Is there any way to get intuitive eating its own forum or subforum? Seems like one awfully long (years!) thread. And it seems like it would be helpful to have individual threads instead of post after post on the same thread, where people can have their own threads on a particular topic under intuitive eating because it seems like there is a lot to say on the subject which need their own topic headers.

Wannabeskinny
02-11-2014, 10:00 PM
That may be helpful Mazzy. Or maybe we can post in the weight loss support forum or the chicks in control forum and start any thread with the label IE. just thinking out loud, dont know if that's helpful but I will say that I haven't gone into the IE thread before because it was so long and I didn't want to read through it. Luckily someone started this thread a couple of weeks ago and so I popped in and here I am.

I was just remarking to myself that I don't know how I found myself here because I probably had very little incentive to start IE. I feel like I literally fell into it.

Wannabeskinny
02-12-2014, 07:34 AM
The noise is ending.

I've been doing IE for almost 2 weeks now I suppose and it's been going well. I'm not perfect and I'm still trying to figure out what real hunger and real fullness are. But it is getting easier. I also still think about food a lot and I have a lot of unanswered questions that arise. I'm ok about thinking about food because I'm thinking of it in a whole new way right now, not as an enemy but as something to enjoy. I know I have to make peace with food and in order to do that I have to eat it - appreciatively and mindfully and not be scared of what it will do to me.

When I say the noise has stopped I mean that the constant struggle to avoid food has ended. I don't fantasize about binging, although I do plan my meals. I'm not in a constant heated dialogue with myself about what I should have done and how much I should've eaten. The impulse to do it is there but there's nothing that I have done that warrants me to scold myself. I've gone back a few times and tallied up calories (couldn't help myself) because I was pretty sure I had over eaten... nope, well within a normal calorie range, much lower than I suspected.

But it's a long road ahead. I want to eventually be one of those people that doesn't ever think about food. I also have nutritional goals in mind and wish to be someone that craves more healthy food. Normal eaters are able to set guidelines for themselves, like eat more leafy greens and avoid sugar without setting themselves up for a binge and I eventually want to be like that, able to steer my eating habits without going off the deep end into a binge.

CindySunshine
02-12-2014, 10:36 AM
Wannabe I think really the point is we need to plan and think about food in a level proportionate to other things. Heck when you go on vacation you plan for lodging and what you want to be sure to see so you can make a reservation but once you've done that you can let it go and be glad you can think about other things.

You have to plan enough of food to have what you need to fix it when you're hungry otherwise you settle and just eat. A planned meal is savored. I also love that quote in IE book that says if you don't love it don't eat it and if you love it savor it. It has made me shove away lots of unsatisfying meals as just not worth eating.

The other thing on hunger and fullness is it doesn't need to be perfect at all. Honestly if you get a little full at one meal, you will naturally wait longer or eat less at the next which what normalcy is all about.

I quit writing down and logging what I eat and counting calories. In the past I would do that until I was at what I felt was like the end of watching and then there was the event of freedom to be done with that and the tendency to overeat and be "off" instead of "on". So that is a definite difference for me. When people want to get together or go out I'm like sure thing! Instead of waiting until I'm through the "on" thing. I order what I want and take home and leave what is too much.

I joined a health club and have put some energy into working out. I have time with retirement, but doing yoga, Pilates, walking and doing the weight circuit. Yesterday I was tired and darn it I just stayed home and read a book, took a nice walk toward evening. I do think if you feel you need to do something to edge you fitter it's better to move than cut food just try to enjoy it.

It's only been about a month, but I can feel the right mindset and just a general sense of calm. So we shall see, as it goes, one day at a time.

Heck I don't know what it takes to start a new forum. I will see if I can find out and let you know. I have retirement time for such endeavors. ;)

CindySunshine
02-13-2014, 02:39 PM
Here's what I got back on starting a separate forum starting threads with IE might give us a way to separate the thoughts not sure monthly helps the issue we are trying to solve.

Hi Cindy,

The owners of the forum (Internet Brands) do not wish to add additional forums to our lineup. At this point, it might be better to find a way to organize the dedicated IE threads within that forum. Have you considered a monthly IE thread instead of starting a new one after 500 posts? It might allow shorter threads that are easier to navigate, while organizing them for reference.

Suzanne


On Wed, Feb 12, 2014 at 10:42 AM, CindySunshine @ 3 Fat Chicks on a Diet Weight Loss Community <Cbcsb1953@yahoo.com> wrote:
The following message was sent to you via the 3 Fat Chicks on a Diet Weight Loss Community Contact Us form by CindySunshine.

--------------------------------

Hi I've been posting and reading several weeks on the Intuitive eating thread under general diet plans and support. It gets long fast and there are clearly a series of topics that could better be handled as separate threads.

I am sure you want to keep the number of forums under control but wondered what the criteria are to set one up.

There is a lot of crossover actually with the chicks in control thread anyway I offered to check what it would take to set up an IE forum someplace.

--------------------------------

User Name: CindySunshine
User ID: 224182

Wannabeskinny
02-14-2014, 09:23 AM
Hi CindySunshine thank you for using part of your free time to look into this - I can't wait to be retired one day!!!

I can understand why the moderators would not want to expand the forum, it's completely understandable. I do think there should be more IE presence though and we should claim a spot for ourselves. And I think that the General Diet Plans forum is not the right place for us considering that IE is the opposite of dieting lol. I quite like the Chicks in Control forum, it's mostly about eating disorders however IE is probably the only way that I have found a bit of control in my life, even if it means giving up control through dieting.

So unless there are objections - and please chime in here everyone! - I might start a thread there with the preface IE just to get the ball rolling. And I definitely think that this thread should be renamed the February IE thread and we can start anew every month, like I said before, I never picked up on IE because the one thread devoted to it was too long for me to jump into and has no other presence on the forum. And it's kind of a ridiculous concept to anyone that doesn't understand it - I know that I truly thought it was bonkers before I got curious.

Here's the new thread in Chicks in Control http://www.3fatchicks.com/forum/chicks-control/292790-ie-taking-control-letting-go.html#post4943743

Wannabeskinny
02-16-2014, 11:15 AM
I sure hope everyone is having a great weekend! Me, I'm stuck with a terrible cold and a sick toddler and surrounded by snow. I'm so tired and sleepy and bored out of my mind. I've not been eating much but I do have to point out that IE is super hard while sick. I'm having a hard time discerning my hunger/fullness cues. I'm not bothered since I'm sick and not eating a lot but it's amazing to me. One of the things that attracted me to IE is that it is skill based - its a out learning to behave around food and learning to read your own satiety cues. Ots not about what to eat but about how to eat. Unlike a diet which has a win or lose aspect to every food choice i strongly feel that I'm getting better as I go along and forgiving myself if my skills aren't perfect yet.

Another thing that I realized attracted me to IE is the utter unfairness of diets. I used to feel total acorn at people who ate. Like giada di laurentis for example and others like her who seem to cook and enjoy foods that are perpetually off limits to me. How can they? Why can't I? And now I kind of understand why they can and I couldn't. I'm also so happy to let go of my divorce proceedings with carbs. It looks like we are getting along much better nowadays without hurting eachother :)

Make sure to check out the new IE posts in chicks in control. And please add your own!

Amy3680
02-17-2014, 09:47 AM
Hi All,
I've been reading lots of great info on these IE threads and started IE last week. On one of the old threads there was a post about a book that had 3 keys to intuitive eating (I think), written by a man, that said if you read those and can apply them you can stop reading there, but most people have trouble believing it can actually work or they can't trust their bodies for hunger/fullness or something similar. I've wasted so many hours searching for that post when I figured I'd just ask to see if that sounds familiar to anyone.

Thanks! Amy

ETA: I should have waited a bit! I started reading Overfed Head today and that's where it was. I downloaded the pdf and put it on my kindle.

mars735
02-17-2014, 11:30 AM
[QUOTE=CindySunshine;4940777]Right answer wannabe! But I will say that even real hunger ebbs and flows so I can be starving and if I can't eat the intense urge passes. But it usually returns before very long.

I just got an email from summertomato that I thought was also worth sharing. I like this gal, she's a little paleo with excluding things but otherwise I like her approach.


Summer Tomato: Surfing the Urge: How to Quench Cravings

Surfing the Urge: How to Quench Cravings
Posted: 10 Feb 2014 11:00 AM PST

Photo by Aristocrats-hat

You probably know by now that Iím not the biggest fan of willpower. Itís weak. Itís fallible. And it often backfires when we need it most.

If you were dating willpower Iíd tell you to dump the jerk immediately. Seriously, you can do better.

The reason Iím so hard on willpower is because the vast majority of the people I talk to still believe it is the solution to their health and weight struggles, and itís not.

For long-term goals, willpower is far too unreliable to carry you through. Eventually it will break down, and the rebound you experience will be far worse than if you werenít trying to control your behavior at all.

That said, willpower can be incredibly powerful for short-term goals. When you need to study for an exam or tolerate your family during the holidays, self-control is often your greatest asset. The most effective foodists must learn when and how to use willpower to your advantage, and when to let it go and fall back on habits.

When it comes to food, one of the best uses for willpower is when youíre experiencing cravings. Cravings are internal signals that drive you to act against your better judgement. They can come on suddenly and be intensely powerful, driving all else from your mind except the object of desire.


Cravings are insidious because they do not reflect a real need or emergency, but they seem to hijack your brain into believing that the universe cannot continue unless you get what you crave.

Itís almost like it isnít you that controls your mind anymore, but some dark force that conspires against your best intentions. Giving into cravings feels so necessary when you do it, but totally icky afterward because you get this sneaking suspicion that it wasnít you calling the shots. Itís almost like someone else took over your brain.

Fortunately, cravings can be tamed. But the most effective method for quenching cravings is very counterintuitive, so will require practice and a bit of faith in the method.

First, if youíre experiencing cravings regularly you should always start by ensuring your habits arenít triggering cravings more often than necessary. Be sure youíre eating a wide variety of nutrient dense foods, and not lacking any major nutrients like protein, slowly-digesting carbohydrates, fats, vitamins or minerals.

Also use techniques to reduce stress, and put yourself on a regular schedule of eating, sleeping and exercise to optimize your natural biological rhythms.

Remove obvious triggers like candies and other snack foods from your house and office if possible.

Even under ideal circumstances, almost everyone will experience a craving at some time or another. When these hit, donít try to fight them or distract yourself from them. As weíve seen, these techniques tend to backfire and induce more frequent and intense cravings down the line. And when we give in, we tend to go overboard because of the what-the-**** effect.

Instead of fighting with your craving, use a technique called surfing the urge. Urge surfing is a technique for riding out a craving without giving into it. I first learned about this technique in Kelly McGonigalís brilliant book, The Willpower Instinct, which is the best book Iíve read on self-control and behavioral change.

Surfing the urge is based on mindfulness practice, and has been shown to be far more effective at increasing self-control and decreasing relapse than methods that rely on distraction or trying to push the urge away.

The first essential component of urge surfing is understanding that all cravings eventually pass, whether or not you give in to them. The secret to getting through the craving is riding it out like a wave.

Instead of being afraid of failure and wishing the urge would away, observe it passively and without judgement. Understand that it will come on suddenly, grow and build, peak, then crash and dissipate.

Cravings almost never last more than 30 minutes, so once that time passes you will be in the clear.

Next time you feel a craving come on, donít panic. Instead find a comfortable seat and sit up straight. Close your eyes and focus on your breath. When the discomfort of the craving grabs your attention, notice the feeling without judgment, as if you were on an alien planet and just trying to observe an interesting new phenomenon.

Notice if and where the feeling manifests in your body. Is your heart beating faster? Are you salivating? Is your jaw tense? Are your hands sweaty? Observe how your body reacts to the craving, then gently take your attention back to your breath and let the feeling go.

This urge surfing technique has been shown to reduce the intensity and frequency of cravings. More important, it makes it much less likely you will give in to them.

For this technique to be most effective, practice mindfulness when you are not experiencing a craving. Try spending 5 minutes each morning just sitting and focusing on your breath. When you notice an itch or a discomfort, observe it passively without acting on it. Notice how it dissipates without you doing anything. Bring your attention back to your breath whenever you remember.

You can learn the full urge surfing technique from scientist Sarah Bowen in this audio file.

Have you tried mindfulness or surfing the urge to quench cravings?]

Thank-you so much for posting this!

carolr3639
02-18-2014, 12:47 PM
Interesting article, mars. Did you lose all that weight with IE?

carolr3639
02-20-2014, 03:32 PM
I was baking bread today and even though I am not hungry I can hardly resist it. Better get it in the freezer quick.

carolr3639
02-24-2014, 08:11 PM
Yes, Amy, The Overfed Head is my favorite book.

Wannabeskinny
02-25-2014, 09:34 AM
I'm reading Overcoming Overeating and I've just gotten to the part where they suggest we clean out our closet.

First, we're supposed to get rid of the clothes that are too big, no sense in assuming our waist will expand. Give them away or hide them in the basement.

Then we're supposed to get rid of our skinny clothes - the clothes we used to fit into or wish we could fit into. Same as above, hide them or give them away.

Finally we have to go through the clothes that are left, the ones that fit us NOW. And we have to figure out why we keep them. Are we just making do with these clothes, do we really love them, do we secretely hate them, etc. I think this one is the hardest step of all because I can think of at least a dozen outfits that off the top of my head that I wear just because they fit.

Has anyone taken this step and if so, how has it helped you or not? What kind of process was it for you? Did you buy new clothes? Were you left with much to wear?

carolr3639
02-25-2014, 10:25 AM
I like my clothes. I usually don't buy anything unless I love it. I've stayed the same weight now for about 5 yr.

Wannabeskinny
02-26-2014, 10:13 AM
I'm about a month in to IE and a lot of things are starting to work. Paying attention to my hunger is getting a little easier. I'm still letting go of the guilt of eating and I like how that feels. I feel free.

Mindfully eating can be difficult. I notice that when I begin to eat I feel urgency but when I try to slow down during that urgency I feel anxious. So I've been letting myself enjoy the first part of eating with abandon. If I'm feeling urgency to eat I go with it. But at some point, usually the halfway point or when I'm half done with the food I pause. I put my fork down for a bit and wait for a minute or two. Often at that point I feel satisfied and stop eating. Or I decide to take 2-3 bites more and call it a day. Anyway this conscious stopping is working wonders!

I've also noticed that when I'm on my period my need to eat is a little more anxious. Yesterday for example I felt really ravenous and thought that I wouldn't be able to control myself. And so I didn't try to. I just went with the anxious feeling and prepared for myself 2 slices of cheese pizza with some spinach salad. I got through that first piece of pizza and most of the small salad. Then I paused for a minute and found that I was completely full. My old habits would have made me bulldoze through all the pizza. I put the other piece back in the fridge and haven't wanted to look at it since. Then I didn't snack, and my dinner was very small. I didn't even crave any chocolate even though I brought it into the house yesterday specifically to satisfy the chocolate craving I usually have during TOM.

Overall my anxiety around food is the lowest it's ever been. I've seen some weight loss, not a lot. But considering that I have not prohibited any foods including junk from the house this is nothing short of a miracle.

carolr3639
02-26-2014, 01:26 PM
Overall my anxiety around food is the lowest it's ever been. That's great.

SouthernMaven
02-28-2014, 01:51 PM
Well I'm back. I missed being here but I think it was helpful to get away from the forum for awhile.

In the interim I've done a lot around the house AND...drum roll...I've taken a part-time job at a local Hallmark store. I haven't worked outside the home since 2000. My last regular job was done from home and I had to stop it in 2005 in order to take care of my father after Katrina. He died in 2011 and I've been considering going back to work ever since, but no way did I want any kind of stressful, high-pressure job. Not that too many people are interested in hiring a 62-year-old for that kind of job anyway - particularly one who is far behind technologically. I wanted something fun, and so far it's been that for sure!

I'm reading Overcoming Overeating and I've just gotten to the part where they suggest we clean out our closet.

First, we're supposed to get rid of the clothes that are too big, no sense in assuming our waist will expand. Give them away or hide them in the basement.

Then we're supposed to get rid of our skinny clothes - the clothes we used to fit into or wish we could fit into. Same as above, hide them or give them away.

Finally we have to go through the clothes that are left, the ones that fit us NOW. And we have to figure out why we keep them. Are we just making do with these clothes, do we really love them, do we secretely hate them, etc. I think this one is the hardest step of all because I can think of at least a dozen outfits that off the top of my head that I wear just because they fit.

Has anyone taken this step and if so, how has it helped you or not? What kind of process was it for you? Did you buy new clothes? Were you left with much to wear?

Wannabe, I actually did that very thing not too long ago - well, the part about buying new clothes, anyway. I have cleaned my closet of my skinny clothes & because I wasn't working, I had very little clothing at all...a couple of pairs of pants, a few skirts, and some blouses. Most of it was so worn that it really needed to be replaced, and even though I was hopeful I would be smaller when I went shopping, I really HAD to get some new clothes. (I think I may have posted about this earlier).

Now I need to get some MORE clothing because I can only wear certain colors to work - either black or khaki pants or skirts with white, black, or beige/tan shirts or blouses. I only have one pair of black pants (besides my leggings) and two white blouses (no black or beige) and they are all OLD. Fortunately I've only worked one day but I will need to shop before Monday when I go back in. (And I was thrilled to find out I can wear my tennis shoes; great news since I'm on my feet most of the time.)

So in this instance I am forced to purchase clothing that fits me NOW, regardless of how I personally feel about it. But I'm okay with it, just as I was when I bought all the new clothes right before Christmas. I wish I were in a smaller size, but I'm grateful I'm not in a larger one!

carolr3639
02-28-2014, 02:40 PM
I wanted something fun, and so far it's been that for sure!
Good news.

Wannabeskinny
02-28-2014, 02:41 PM
Congratulations on your new job, it's great to be away from the house isn't it? I work part time and take care of my toddler most of the day and i know that I need social interaction more now than ever.

Thanks for relaying your experience with IE. We're expecting a snow storm here on Sunday so I'm laying this weekend aside for clearing out my closet a bit - no way I think I can do it in a day or 2, this will be a big project. I don't have much cash to be buying new clothes right now so I think I will spend some time with the clothes that fit, or at least trying to hunt them down in my closet.

SouthernMaven
03-04-2014, 12:23 PM
Congratulations on your new job, it's great to be away from the house isn't it?

Indeed it is! I am enjoying it a lot. They were asking for a volunteer to set up and maintain their FB page and I jumped on it, as I do love social media. I will be working on it at home and they will pay me for it, but I just enjoy doing it and it helps me to exercise my brain a bit more. I worked on it a bit this morning but not quite ready to put it out there because I need some pics and more information before I start promoting it.

Hope everyone is doing well with IE. It definitely has its ups and downs for me, but dieting is no longer an option. Sometimes I feel like I'm caught between the devil and the deep blue sea. :shrug:

carolr3639
03-04-2014, 07:27 PM
I will be working on it at home and they will pay me for it,Wow!

carolr3639
03-04-2014, 07:28 PM
It definitely has its ups and downs for me, but dieting is no longer an option.Same here.