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Wannabeskinny
11-18-2013, 10:48 PM
Stunning talk about obesity by Dr. Peter Attia.

http://www.ted.com/talks/peter_attia_what_if_we_re_wrong_about_diabetes.htm l?utm_source=facebook&source=facebook&utm_medium=social&utm_campaign=ios-share


Jacqui_D
11-19-2013, 10:18 AM
Wow! I am very impressed with this video. Thank you for posting it!

diamondgeog
11-19-2013, 10:35 AM
Thanks. That was a great talk. This has been my most successful weight loss and I had come to the same conclusions. Carbs were my problem and I was getting very insulin resistant.

Where I differ is for me whole grains are still a big problem. We were eating whole grain bread and pasta for years. Cutting those out make a big difference. Eating carbs was making me more hungry, lethargic, on the way to very sick.

The obesity was a result of insulin resistance in many ways. But that insulin resistance was happening because of my diet choices. So you get to the same starting point in many ways. But still VERY important because we can focus on what diets lead to insulin resistance. I think clearly then high carbs, even unrefined, should and hopefully will become the focus.

Thankfully your body's very metabolism CAN change. You can go from carb storage to carb usage. Carb counters is great here. I posted about it. Mark's Daily Apple is a wonderful site. He markets it as plaeo but really the heart of it is all about carbs.


diamondgeog
11-19-2013, 11:02 AM
I started this weight loss journey by googling info. I remember putting in why am I so hungry after fast food. Tired in the afternoon. So lethargic. Well does were three separate searches.

But they all triangulated to carbs. ALL. My body, bloodwork, diet, huge gut, lethargy, all carbs. For me. Might be different for others. So why so many Americans are insulin resistant is huge. And I am squarely on high carb diets as a big or the biggest culprit.

time2lose
11-19-2013, 11:59 AM
Interesting lecture. Thanks for posting!

Jacqui_D
11-19-2013, 03:42 PM
I found his blog site. I like it a lot too. http://eatingacademy.com/start-here

Jamiemae
11-19-2013, 03:49 PM
Thanks for the great resources :)

diamondgeog
11-19-2013, 04:08 PM
Found this awesome talk by Jamie Oliver while there.

http://www.ted.com/talks/jamie_oliver.html

Mark Bittman has great one also.

marigrace
04-26-2014, 07:38 AM
Kudos! Thanks for posting. This for me is the heart of the matter.

yoyoma
04-26-2014, 02:26 PM
Thanks for posting the fantastic TED talk. What a powerful, touching ending!

berryblondeboys
04-26-2014, 02:27 PM
I started this weight loss journey by googling info. I remember putting in why am I so hungry after fast food. Tired in the afternoon. So lethargic. Well does were three separate searches.

But they all triangulated to carbs. ALL. My body, bloodwork, diet, huge gut, lethargy, all carbs. For me. Might be different for others. So why so many Americans are insulin resistant is huge. And I am squarely on high carb diets as a big or the biggest culprit.

Same for me... and it was eating them again that led to the regain.

marigrace
04-26-2014, 03:12 PM
I let myself go from thanksgiving till spring and managed to gain back 20 lbs that I had worked really hard to drop. I did that with brandy and carbs....a really deadly combo. I have been back on track now for about 4 weeks. I feel so much better. I don't know how I can forget how much easier it is when I manage the carbs.

berryblondeboys
04-26-2014, 05:03 PM
I let myself go from thanksgiving till spring and managed to gain back 20 lbs that I had worked really hard to drop. I did that with brandy and carbs....a really deadly combo. I have been back on track now for about 4 weeks. I feel so much better. I don't know how I can forget how much easier it is when I manage the carbs.

Things "went to he$$ in a hand-basket" for me when we went to Croatia two summers ago... that was the beginning of the trouble. I was DOING GREAT around that time. But... while there, we walked, hiked, swam daily. BUT... avoiding carbs along the coast especially? IMPOSSIBLE. I had so much bread a that is a staple. When we came back I had gained 20 pounds in a month. Five were water, the rest was actual weight. Now... I hadn't gone totally crazy... a bit crazy, but not CRAZY... and we weren't sitting around all day. We were active!!! and 15 true pounds in a MONTH???

Then, I started to whittle away at that weight... gained during the holidays... whittled away again, but it was going much, much, much slower and I had some injuries keeping me from the gym eventually... By summer, I just "gave up".

I knew it wasn't a permanent "give up" but it was much more than I EVER thought it would be... and so much of that feeling of "ugh" was from eating carbs.

They taste sooooooooo good (the taste for them never went away), but they make me feel so bad! I have got to stay away from them - for good.

berryblondeboys
04-28-2014, 03:42 PM
Blogged about it today Wannabeskinny. Thanks for finding it. I've been thinking on this for a couple days.

http://melissaslife42.blogspot.com/2014/04/great-ted-talk-and-my-thoughts-on-it.html

pixelllate
04-29-2014, 11:27 AM
Things "went to he$$ in a hand-basket" for me when we went to Croatia two summers ago... that was the beginning of the trouble. I was DOING GREAT around that time. But... while there, we walked, hiked, swam daily. BUT... avoiding carbs along the coast especially? IMPOSSIBLE. I had so much bread a that is a staple. When we came back I had gained 20 pounds in a month. Five were water, the rest was actual weight. Now... I hadn't gone totally crazy... a bit crazy, but not CRAZY... and we weren't sitting around all day. We were active!!! and 15 true pounds in a MONTH???

Then, I started to whittle away at that weight... gained during the holidays... whittled away again, but it was going much, much, much slower and I had some injuries keeping me from the gym eventually... By summer, I just "gave up".

I knew it wasn't a permanent "give up" but it was much more than I EVER thought it would be... and so much of that feeling of "ugh" was from eating carbs.

They taste sooooooooo good (the taste for them never went away), but they make me feel so bad! I have got to stay away from them - for good.

Yes. I can have all the knowledge in the world but sometimes, I couldn't care less and my innate desires for feeding take over whatever health/weight goals I have. Lack of knowledge/awareness certainly isn't the issue for most of us lol - Google reveals all. Its just points on life when ya just don't care - even if they are occasional and most of the time I do care, those moments can be frequent enough to derail any progress.

berryblondeboys
04-29-2014, 11:34 AM
Yes. I can have all the knowledge in the world but sometimes, I couldn't care less and my innate desires for feeding take over whatever health/weight goals I have. Lack of knowledge/awareness certainly isn't the issue for most of us lol - Google reveals all. Its just points on life when ya just don't care - even if they are occasional and most of the time I do care, those moments can be frequent enough to derail any progress.

That's where I was for almost a year. I simply didn't care enough. I knew what would happen. I knew what was happening... but I didn't have the desire to stop it. THAT is what I need to get a hold of in my head. How not to give into desire.

Wannabeskinny
04-30-2014, 10:39 AM
Interesting conversation, and it just goes to show that everyone hears what they want to hear. It's so easy to construe what a doctor says into feeding our own views isn't it? This doctor points out that a whole team of researchers with opposing views are tackling this problem. There is not ONE ANSWER yet and will probably never be just one answer for all of humanity. America faces a different problem than say a third world country. There are different dietary considerations, someone who is kosher will probably not subscribe to using butter and bacon in their cooking lol. You cannot pigeon hole an entire world into one way of eating.

What I get from this talk is that there are more factors than just simple dietary choice that cause obesity and that finally the medical community is acknowledging that.

katerina11
04-30-2014, 06:00 PM
i like this ted talk...

https://www.ted.com/talks/sandra_aamodt_why_dieting_doesn_t_usually_work

berryblondeboys
04-30-2014, 06:19 PM
I can only do intuitive eating, if I have eliminated most carbs to keep my insulin levels low. It's what I do ... I am not counting calories. I am eating she I am hungry.... But I can only sense that true hunger when I am not pumped up on insulin.

katerina11
04-30-2014, 06:58 PM
I can only do intuitive eating, if I have eliminated most carbs to keep my insulin levels low. It's what I do ... I am not counting calories. I am eating she I am hungry.... But I can only sense that true hunger when I am not pumped up on insulin.

i cant do it at all. i followed paleo from 2010 to 2012 and initially lost weight, but then stayed around 255 until i started counting calories. i wish i could eat intuitively!

what i found to be interesting were the factors in health and how they affected M&M. eating fruits and veggies, exercise, no smoking, no alcohol and how obese and normal weight M&M evened out.

i did some further research because it really piqued my interest and found this...

http://wholehealthsource.blogspot.com/2014/04/uncovering-true-health-costs-of-excess.html

like it was stated above, lots of science and lots of people disputing the science and lots of science getting is wrong, and lots more information we don't have.

taking a hard line at this point seems like a bad idea.

Wannabeskinny
04-30-2014, 07:09 PM
i like this ted talk...

https://www.ted.com/talks/sandra_aamodt_why_dieting_doesn_t_usually_work

I practice intuitive eating and I found this ted talk to be extremely unpursuasive towards IE. I also hate the "set point" and how it can't be changed. It's very depressing, this talk dissuaded me from IE before I tried it for myself.

We all have to strike a balance in what makes our bodies work at their optimal best. There are things we want to eat and can't and shouldn't. I initially resisted IE because I thought it meant "fat acceptance" and I did not trust that my intuition to lead me to healthy foods. And at first it didn't, because my intuition had been supressed with a lot of nutritional knowledge that I could not adhere to. IE is all about trusting yourself and nurturing yourself. After a bit of a scary start I now crave well balanced meals. I have discovered that I am actually not at all addicted to potatoes like I thought I was lol. I thought I had a potato problem for real and that I could not be trusted around potatoes.

katerina11
04-30-2014, 07:26 PM
i don't think evidence really cares how you feel about it. lol

actually, the reason why i liked that ted talk so much is because it made me uncomfortable.

Mrs Snark
04-30-2014, 08:27 PM
I can only do intuitive eating, if I have eliminated most carbs to keep my insulin levels low. It's what I do ... I am not counting calories. I am eating she I am hungry.... But I can only sense that true hunger when I am not pumped up on insulin.

I'm very similar, though probably not as sensitive to carbs as you are. If I avoid my trigger foods I can basically eat everything else intuitively. I don't count calories (or carbs/protein/fat either) and I eat when I'm hungry (which is generally 3 times a day, though sometimes only twice) and eat as much as I feel like.

The less I eat my trigger foods, the more "quiet" my brain is as well. So much less struggle, which of course is very, very nice.

It is only when I add those trigger foods back in that I end up with a struggle.

kaplods
04-30-2014, 11:10 PM
I practice intuitive eating and I found this ted talk to be extremely unpursuasive towards IE. I also hate the "set point" and how it can't be changed. It's very depressing, this talk dissuaded me from IE before I tried it for myself.

We all have to strike a balance in what makes our bodies work at their optimal best. There are things we want to eat and can't and shouldn't. I initially resisted IE because I thought it meant "fat acceptance" and I did not trust that my intuition to lead me to healthy foods. And at first it didn't, because my intuition had been supressed with a lot of nutritional knowledge that I could not adhere to. IE is all about trusting yourself and nurturing yourself. After a bit of a scary start I now crave well balanced meals. I have discovered that I am actually not at all addicted to potatoes like I thought I was lol. I thought I had a potato problem for real and that I could not be trusted around potatoes.



Intuitive eating attempts have been disastrous for me. Also, setpoint theory does not argue that weight loss is impossible or that setpoint "can't be changed," only that it can be more complex and challenging than simply reducing calories.

For example, one way to lower your setpoint is through exercise and quality sleep. Poor or insufficient sleep lowers your metabolism (and perhaps setpoint).

None of the setpoint theorists argue that setpoint is set in stone, only that your body has systems that work to maintain a weight that is or has become normal. The longer you maintain a weight (whether it be a high or low or average weight) the more difficulty you MAY have changing it, and to change it, you often have to change more than just calories in.

yoyoma
05-01-2014, 07:06 AM
Interesting conversation, and it just goes to show that everyone hears what they want to hear. It's so easy to construe what a doctor says into feeding our own views isn't it? This doctor points out that a whole team of researchers with opposing views are tackling this problem. There is not ONE ANSWER yet and will probably never be just one answer for all of humanity. America faces a different problem than say a third world country. There are different dietary considerations, someone who is kosher will probably not subscribe to using butter and bacon in their cooking lol. You cannot pigeon hole an entire world into one way of eating.

What I get from this talk is that there are more factors than just simple dietary choice that cause obesity and that finally the medical community is acknowledging that.

That was an aspect of the talk. As part of that team, Attia brings the perspective that insulin resistance is a part of the problem for many people. Looking into his background, he co-founded the nonprofit NuSI with Taubes ("Good Calories, Bad Calories"). He is personally carb sensitive but his wife is not. He runs a website about his lifestyle ("The Eating Academy") in which he describes his ketogenic lifestyle (part of his message is that if you exercise enough you can eat more carbs and remain ketogenic).

yoyoma
05-01-2014, 07:09 AM
Intuitive eating attempts have been disastrous for me.

IE didn't work well for me but neither did Atkins. But in both cases, I probably never really was sufficiently devoted to the spirit of the program. Luckily, I now seem to be on board with a WOE that accommodates my strengths and weaknesses.

Wannabeskinny
05-01-2014, 09:00 AM
He is personally carb sensitive but his wife is not...

Wouldn't this mean that he is aware that some people need to follow a specific dietary philosophy while others do not? Wouldn't it mean that not everybody needs to subscribe to a low carb lifestyle? Because like I said, people run away with the bits and pieces that apply to them and what I got out of this very moving ted talk is that doctors need to question their prejudice and the one-size fits all theory. And if he is willing to work with researchers that having opposing theories then why aren't we?

Wannabeskinny
05-01-2014, 09:03 AM
Intuitive eating attempts have been disastrous for me. Also, setpoint theory does not argue that weight loss is impossible or that setpoint "can't be changed," only that it can be more complex and challenging than simply reducing calories.

For example, one way to lower your setpoint is through exercise and quality sleep. Poor or insufficient sleep lowers your metabolism (and perhaps setpoint).

None of the setpoint theorists argue that setpoint is set in stone, only that your body has systems that work to maintain a weight that is or has become normal. The longer you maintain a weight (whether it be a high or low or average weight) the more difficulty you MAY have changing it, and to change it, you often have to change more than just calories in.

Well, when I heard this ted talk that's what I got out of it. She says so pretty plainly, that your set point can't really be changed and that "this is what your mother meant when she said life isn't fair." Whether it's true or not it was not a motivator for me to even consider IE. I figured, if I can't change anything then what's the point.

Luckily I did try IE and have not had a disasterous time of it. I'm glad I looked past her particularly bad ted talk and tried it for myself.

CindySunshine
05-01-2014, 09:07 AM
I wondered if I watched the same video after reading the comments. What I found the most interesting is the structured longer term scientific studies finally being undertaken, I was reading on the website and they have one on comparing the types of diet eating choices carefully monitored over 3 years. They are one year in and the study won't complete until 2016. Here are the ones listed on the NuSI website. There is more info if you go to the site on study specifics. http://nusi.org/the-science/current-science-in-progress/#.U2I5Stq9KSN

Current science in progress

Boston Children’s Hospital Study
Preventing obesity and maintaining a healthy weight requires an understanding of the dietary factors that drive excess fat accumulation. Is it too many calories consumed and too few expended, or does the macronutrient composition of the diet (the proportion and type of carbohydrates, fat and protein) have an effect on fat storage, independent of caloric content? Individuals who have lost significant weight and so are predisposed to gain it back represent ideal subjects to study this question of whether a calorie is a calorie. By varying the macronutrient content of the diet consumed by these “weight-reduced” subjects, researchers can study how the carbohydrates, protein, and fat in the diet might either drive weight gain or prevent it.

In this trial, 150 overweight and obese college students, faculty and staff will be housed in a dormitory where they’ll be fed all their meals and monitored while they eat. They’ll first lose 10 to 12 percent of their weight on a diet that restricts all calories equally. They’ll then be randomly assigned to follow one of three diets – either a carbohydrate-restricted diet, high in fat; a fat-restricted diet, high in carbohydrate; or a low-glycemic index diet, in which the carbohydrates consumed are slowly digested and rich in fiber. The researchers will weigh the participants daily and adjust the caloric content of their assigned diets as necessary to try to maintain the participants at a stable weight. For the last two weeks of the study, participants will be allowed to eat as much as they want of their assigned diets to generate data on the hunger and satiety responses to these diets. By assessing the participants’ energy expenditure on the assigned diets and how many calories they have to eat to maintain their reduced weights, the researchers will determine whether the macronutrients in the diet play a significant role in regulating weight and body fat mass. The results should point the way toward the most effective nutritional strategy for maintaining a healthy weight and preventing excess fat accumulation, particularly in people who were previously overweight. Read more

Energy Balance Consortium
Current research and public health policy on obesity is based on the belief that it is caused by an imbalance between energy consumed (the calories we eat) and expended (the calories we excrete and burn). By this thinking, the interaction between diet and body fat is determined by the total amount of calories in the foods consumed, while the macronutrient content of these foods (the proportion and type of carbohydrates, fats, and protein) has no meaningful effect. In short, when it comes to fat accumulation, “a-calorie-is-a-calorie,” regardless of its source. An alternative hypothesis is that dietary macronutrients influence body fat through their effect on the hormones that regulate the uptake, retention and mobilization of fat by fat cells and the use of fat by other cells for fuel. This study will be the most well-controlled test of these competing hypotheses to date.

Overweight and obese subjects will live in a clinical residence under tightly controlled conditions for 8 weeks. For the first four weeks they’ll be fed a typical American diet at precisely the amount of calories necessary for them to maintain a stable body composition. For the next four weeks, they’ll be fed an equivalent amount of calories of a diet that replaces virtually all of the carbohydrate in the diet with fat. The “calorie-is-a-calorie” hypothesis predicts that the subjects will maintain a constant amount of body fat despite this radical change in the macronutrient composition of their diets, and so will expend an equivalent amount of energy on both diets. The alternative hypothesis predicts that the subjects will mobilize fat from their fat cells on the very-low-carbohydrate diet and burn that fat for fuel over and above the calories they’re consuming. As a result, they’ll expend more energy during the second four week period than the first. The researchers will carefully monitor the subjects’ energy expenditure to determine which prediction is more accurate. The results will have fundamental implications for how obesity is understood, treated and, ultimately, prevented. Read more

Stanford University
Understanding the role of diet composition on human health and disease over periods of time longer than a few months requires that participants be “free-living” — eating their own food, housed in their own homes, going about their lives as usual. The longer the study lasts and the greater the number of participants, the more researchers can learn about the health risks and benefits of a diet, but the less control they retain over what and how much the subjects actually eat. This study attempts to maximize what we can learn about diets of different macronutrient compositions in a free-living environment, while piloting technologies and methodologies that will be necessary for future studies that will increase significantly the number of participants and the duration of the study itself.

This study compares the role of dietary fat and carbohydrates on body weight and on the risk factors for obesity-related chronic diseases in 600 free-living overweight and obese subjects. Unlike previous studies of its kind, the trial is designed to assure that participants randomized to the different diets actually eat those diets for the duration of the study. It starts by maximizing the difference between the fat and carbohydrate content of the two diets and then applies an intense program of counseling and monitoring to achieve far better adherence to the assigned diets than previous studies. Smart phone applications will be piloted to further improve adherence. Metabolic measures and gene analyses will help determine whether differences in blood sugar control and genetic factors predict the participants’ response to the diets. This study should be able to document, for the first time ever, what happens when free-living participants maintain compliance with a very-low-fat diet and a very-low-carbohydrate diet for an entire year. Read more

berryblondeboys
05-01-2014, 09:56 AM
So glad to see more research... My "gut" tells me that in a way, "a calorie is a calorie" in that, yes, if you eat less calories and expend more calories, you will lose the same proportional amount of weight.

BUT... I think maintaining that weight loss, or sticking to a weight loss program might have differing results - but then again... dependent on the individual. Someone who is carb sensitive might have a harder time sticking to a low fat, high carb diet. Whereas someone who is not carb sensitive wouldn't.

So, these studies need to go EVEN FURTHER. Not just picking "any" fat person, but dividing them by their sensitivities. Unfortunately, a lot of people just don't know what they are sensitive to because they've never done elimination diets before.

I've lost weight doing low fat, high carb and was successful. I've lost low carb high fat and was successful, but in both cases regained due to depression and in BOTH cases I went back to eating TONS of carbs for quick gain backs.

What plan am I going back to? Low carb as I found it easier to do than just calorie restricting (via WW points). AND... over that time, I paid REALLLY close attention to what made me feel good and easy to eat and definitely, when I lowered the carbs I didn't feel deprived and I felt I could keep eating like that forever. It was ONLY during times like vacation, holidays where other high carb foods snuck in that I found it realllly hard to eat less.

When my husband took off weight, he didn't really change his eating as his eating was pretty spot on. He just started exercising and over the course of a year he lost the little bit of weight he wanted to lose. He still drank wine with dinner. Still ate a sweet when he wanted it. He just has always had a good handle of portion size, knowing what he was hungry for etc. I TOTALLLLLY don't have that same voice with all foods equally.

berryblondeboys
05-01-2014, 10:10 AM
Wouldn't this mean that he is aware that some people need to follow a specific dietary philosophy while others do not? Wouldn't it mean that not everybody needs to subscribe to a low carb lifestyle? Because like I said, people run away with the bits and pieces that apply to them and what I got out of this very moving ted talk is that doctors need to question their prejudice and the one-size fits all theory. And if he is willing to work with researchers that having opposing theories then why aren't we?

That is exactly what he is saying. That not everyone is the same, so we need to stop treating us as all the same. BUT... probably 70% of people who are overweight are probably carb sensitive, but also people who are thin can be carb sensitive. We just need to figure it out.

Why do we all have to fit the same mold?

I look at my husband and me - I'm hungriest the beginning part of the day, he is hungriest in the evening. I'm also a morning person, he's a night owl. He can eat anything in moderation. I cannot resist some things (sweets). When we eat the same foods, he will get gassy. I will not. He will get constipated with the same foods that I will not get constipated. Etc.

In almost every single way, we are different when it comes to food. Yes, when we eat less, we lose weight, but how our bodies deal with food, is completely opposite.

pixelllate
05-01-2014, 11:50 AM
Its a huge ordeal to try and find any common factor explaining why people are the size that they are. It'd be more useful if it was presented as "if you are like this, this often correlates with this, etc" and the audience can see if it applies to them. However, people generally get more drawn in to talks that are presented as an overarching applies-to-all.

Wannabeskinny
05-01-2014, 11:55 AM
That is exactly what he is saying. That not everyone is the same, so we need to stop treating us as all the same. BUT... probably 70% of people who are overweight are probably carb sensitive, but also people who are thin can be carb sensitive. We just need to figure it out.

Why do we all have to fit the same mold?

I look at my husband and me - I'm hungriest the beginning part of the day, he is hungriest in the evening. I'm also a morning person, he's a night owl. He can eat anything in moderation. I cannot resist some things (sweets). When we eat the same foods, he will get gassy. I will not. He will get constipated with the same foods that I will not get constipated. Etc.

In almost every single way, we are different when it comes to food. Yes, when we eat less, we lose weight, but how our bodies deal with food, is completely opposite.

When I see my nutritional therapist next week I will bring up this sensitivity issue. We have had several conversations about carbs, mainly about my very volatile relationship to carbs. Years of low carbing caused me to fear carbs yet always run back to them - which was a vicious and uncontrollable cycle. I kept feeling like I was failing, that if I could stick to the low carb that I would be fine and that I would find that ease and euphoria that so many low carbers swear by. My nutritional therapist specializes in IE so she's not tolerant of the low carb mentality and we talk mostly about the guilt I feel over carbs. I have sensitivity to carbs but it's a psychological one, not physical. If I could find anyone, just one person who is successful at low-carb without resorting to eventual binging then it would make more sense. But I have yet to meet or see someone who does low carb without struggling to stay on course. Low carb led me to lots and lots of binges, meanwhile IE has completely stripped me of any desire to binge. I still have some guilt issues over carbs that will take a while to overcome but at least I don't have to give up cake. :dizzy: The bottom line is, that now that I have lifted all restrictions from eating carbs that I'm eating much less of them.

I'm also extremely lucky that I grew up in the mediterranean, therefore lived for many years on the mediterranean diet - loaded with legumes, whole grains, fish, and vegetables. I probably never even had butter until I was a teenager, in the mediterranean even sweets are made with olive oil. Anyway, due to my family history in the mediterranean we have no history of heart disease, diabetes, strokes, cancer, dementia, or anything associated with metabolic syndrome. My elders have all lived very long and healthy lives and I see no impending doom in my future, I can definitely see how someone with a frightening family history has to take drastic measures. And I too look at my future and want to be healthy - when I hear of people getting sick and having to stop eating sugar or salt or fat or whatever their doctor tells them to lay off I get very scared. Because I don't want my health to be compromised in a way that I will have to restrict food in a significant way - I've tried and have failed that many many times, I can't stick to it even if I bet large amounts of money on it. I'm so scared that some doctor is going to tell me that I have to stop eating something and then I will be so resentful of the restriction that I will binge because that's all I know how to do.

kaplods
05-01-2014, 12:55 PM
Well, when I heard this ted talk that's what I got out of it. She says so pretty plainly, that your set point can't really be changed and that "this is what your mother meant when she said life isn't fair." Whether it's true or not it was not a motivator for me to even consider IE. I figured, if I can't change anything then what's the point.

Luckily I did try IE and have not had a disasterous time of it. I'm glad I looked past her particularly bad ted talk and tried it for myself.


You always need to look further than one person's opinion to fairly judge any theory, especially in weight loss where there are so many theories.

kaplods
05-01-2014, 01:56 PM
IE didn't work well for me but neither did Atkins. But in both cases, I probably never really was sufficiently devoted to the spirit of the program. Luckily, I now seem to be on board with a WOE that accommodates my strengths and weaknesses.


I'm still working on finding that "sweet spot" carb level that controls my appetite and yet doesn't result in blood sugar crashes.

From what I've read and noticed, inuitive eating seems to work best for people who
do not have insulin/blood sugar, and also for people who were never overweight as children or young adults. And, it seems to work least well for people with blood sugar and insulin issues.

I'm just glad to hear that the science is starting to consider the possibility that obesity is a multifaceted problem for which there is no single answer. Taking blame out of the equation would be a nice added bonus.


I was taught and encourage to blame my dedication whenever I failed at weight loss (I started dieting as a pudgy five year old, and from the very start I got the message that failure was my fault).

For decades, I did a better job of blaming myself than anyone else could, though there was a fair amount of external blame and shaming too.


To me, the TED talk we're talking about is refreshing, just from the perspective of acknowledging that doctors don't have all the answers and that overweight people cannot all be dismissed as lazy and unwilling to cooperate with medical advice.

Unfortunately, in my experience, it's rare to find a doctor who is compassionate about weight issues unless he/she has experienced weight issues personally.

Sadly, even in this TED talk, this is true. The speaker didn't consider the possibility that the fat patient shouldn't be blamed until HE experienced issues himself.


Personally, I wish I had understood (or even heard about) insulin resistance as a kid or teen. Before I was ten years old, I knew that I could not eat sugar for breakfast or I would feel horrible about 10-20 minutes later.

Occasionally after church, my parents would take us for donuts, and we were allowed two donuts. I would either save my donuts for later in the day and only drink my milk, or I would get french crullers (my favorite and the lowest calorie and carb donut on the menu, though I didn't know that then. They probably were my favorite because they didn't make me sick).

When I tried Atkins at around 15, "induction flu" was so bad that I actually passed out and came close several times. I tried Atkins several times throughout my life with the same results.

Only decades later, after my current doctor diagnosed me as insulin resistant (now diabetic) did I learn to associate those symptoms with low blood sugar.

It's quite possible I was insulin resistant from birth.

My doctor suggested I try low-carb, but not too low-carb (unfortunately he couldn't tell me how low was too low).

I've been experimenting (and succeeding) ever since, even though I must admit to having almost zero motivation and dedication.

If I had learned all this before I had burned myself out on dieting and caring about my weight, I have no doubt that I'd have lost weight more rapidly.

I admit that my current efforts are half-hearted (and half-arsed), but I'm still having more success than when I was younger, and more intensely motivated.

I can only imagine the success I would have had with "low but not too low" carb dieting in my teens and twenties when I was willing to do almost anything to succeed.

Even if I only knew to avoid the high glycemic carbs (sugar and grains) I doubt I would have had as severe a weight problem.


The state of nutritional and dietetic science is dismal compared to the other sciences and I think it's largely because of two false assumptions that permeated not only the science, but our culture as a whole.

1. There is a single optimal diet for weight loss that is appropriate for every overweight person, regardless of age, degree of obesity, and all other variables.

2. Obese patients are obese because of their own weakness of character - they are lazy and unwilling to comply with dietary advice.


It's nice to see that those assumptions are being questioned.

berryblondeboys
05-01-2014, 02:31 PM
The state of nutritional and dietetic science is dismal compared to the other sciences and I think it's largely because of two false assumptions that permeated not only the science, but our culture as a whole.

1. There is a single optimal diet for weight loss that is appropriate for every overweight person, regardless of age, degree of obesity, and all other variables.

2. Obese patients are obese because of their own weakness of character - they are lazy and unwilling to comply with dietary advice.


It's nice to see that those assumptions are being questioned.

Yes... finally. I hate that people assume I'm fat because of being weak. it is simply not that easy!

yoyoma
05-01-2014, 07:43 PM
As part of that team, Attia brings the perspective that insulin resistance is a part of the problem for many people... Attia is carb sensitive but his wife is not...

bbm


Wouldn't this mean that he is aware that some people need to follow a specific dietary philosophy while others do not? Wouldn't it mean that not everybody needs to subscribe to a low carb lifestyle? Because like I said, people run away with the bits and pieces that apply to them and what I got out of this very moving ted talk is that doctors need to question their prejudice and the one-size fits all theory. And if he is willing to work with researchers that having opposing theories then why aren't we?



I think we agree. I do not believe that Attia's message is that everyone needs to go on a low carb diet. I didn't see any reason to think he believes that people who are not carb sensitive should go on low carb diets. But I believe he thinks it can help those people who do happen to be carb sensitive. That doesn't exclude the possibility of using other approaches and it also doesn't exclude the possibility of addressing other extraneous issues that could lead to weight gain (which might be pursued by other team members). And, like you said, everyone takes something different away from the talk. This is what I got from the talk and a little web browsing, but I might be misrepresenting his views.

yoyoma
05-01-2014, 08:12 PM
If I could find anyone, just one person who is successful at low-carb without resorting to eventual binging then it would make more sense.
Kim in the Atkins forum just celebrated 10 years maintenance. Diamondgeode? (don't know how long he's been at it). These are just two people I can think of off the top of my head. Try asking around in the low carb forum. And the maintainers forum.

yoyoma
05-01-2014, 08:22 PM
I'm just glad to hear that the science is starting to consider the possibility that obesity is a multifaceted problem for which there is no single answer. Taking blame out of the equation would be a nice added bonus.
...
To me, the TED talk we're talking about is refreshing, just from the perspective of acknowledging that doctors don't have all the answers and that overweight people cannot all be dismissed as lazy and unwilling to cooperate with medical advice.


Absolutely!

I wish all doctors would see this TED talk.

katerina11
05-01-2014, 08:23 PM
another line of inquiry to consider
http://www.nih.gov/researchmatters/september2013/09162013obesity.htm

berryblondeboys
05-01-2014, 09:40 PM
another line of inquiry to consider
http://www.nih.gov/researchmatters/september2013/09162013obesity.htm

Hmm... My husband is lean. Means we shouldn't wash hands and I should try to contaminate myself with his gut microbes?:).

There is more to the story of what makes people overeqt and become obese. I wonder if I will live long enough for them to figure it all out completely.

katerina11
05-01-2014, 10:00 PM
fecal bacteriotherapy ftw!