Ideal Protein Diet - Switching off Ideal Protein and onto different plan




kelseys928
11-14-2013, 06:58 PM
I am 6 weeks in and 25 lbs down, while i think I will stick to IP until my last 15 lbs come off I am starting to think about switching over to calorie counting/working out hard as a more long term lifestyle change.

Has anyone done that with success? I am now nervous about how my weight will go if I am not using the IP guidelines but I know plenty of people that have lost weight in that way before


Meeshellee
11-14-2013, 07:50 PM
One of my really good friends did IP on and off for about a year. When she got to her goal weight she did not phase off but switched to a program similar to what you mentioned (although she is not counting calories). She goes to an aerobic class every single morning, 6 days a week and she has a fruit smoothie for breakfast. She has been able to maintain her weight loss for almost a year doing this and it works for her. I've heard others talk about switching to WW once they hit their goal...although I don't know anyone that has actually done that.

I am very nerveous about maintenance and wether or not I'll be able to keep the weight off doing IP Phase 4 or if I'll have to come up with a different lifestyle that will work for me. Good luck to you, please let me know what you decide and whether or not it works. :)

Kawaii1002
11-14-2013, 08:31 PM
I am 6 weeks in and 25 lbs down, while i think I will stick to IP until my last 15 lbs come off I am starting to think about switching over to calorie counting/working out hard as a more long term lifestyle change.

Has anyone done that with success? I am now nervous about how my weight will go if I am not using the IP guidelines but I know plenty of people that have lost weight in that way before

Kelsey,

If you're doing IP with a coach and a center, they will work with you through all the phases of IP until you get to maintenance. Once there, you can move on to Calorie count/work out methodologies with no problem. The biggest problem I've seen thus far with people coming off of IP is that they don't give their body long enough to transition through the phases to get to maintenance.


yespositively
11-14-2013, 08:48 PM
I don't have any insight to this but I've thought similar things. I am not sure I want to go through all the phases when I phase off... I guess I would like to learn more about their importance so that I can make an informed decision. I will definitely do phase 1 until I hit my goal weight (which is somewhere between 140-155 I think), but I would rather switch back to healthy eating and exercise after that.

I lost 30lbs without IP so I know what kind of changes I needed to make to not gain weight (for me it's alcohol and evening snacking that get me in trouble). I've also fallen in love with running and will be excited to get back to it.

All that said, I don't want to phase off IP too quickly and fail. Would be interested as to why that happens. DH and I are thinking about going paleo once this is done (low carb but would add back fruit and nuts).

JohnP
11-15-2013, 01:05 PM
The biggest problem I've seen thus far with people coming off of IP is that they don't give their body long enough to transition through the phases to get to maintenance.

No offense, this is a rediculous statement. Bear with me here ... I am not saying your experience is rediculous. You have seen what you have seen. I too, have read a large number of people who blame their regain on the fact that they did not phase off properly as well.

This statement though, is complete bunk. (Bolded in your quote)

The reason people regain after IP has nothing to do with the phases it has everything to do with the number of calories they eat. You can go from phase 1, to not being on the IP diet, and not regain a single pound of fat it simply matters how many calories you ingest.

What I always suggest to IP dieters who are having success is to look forward at phase four and try to determine if they can live with the phase 4 rules for the rest of their life. At the end of the day, one must restrict the calories one ingests. The method is relevant only in that everyone will find one method easier than another to follow.

JohnP
11-15-2013, 01:26 PM
I am 6 weeks in and 25 lbs down, while i think I will stick to IP until my last 15 lbs come off I am starting to think about switching over to calorie counting/working out hard as a more long term lifestyle change.

Has anyone done that with success? I am now nervous about how my weight will go if I am not using the IP guidelines but I know plenty of people that have lost weight in that way before

Thousands of people have done this with success. An alternative PSMF diet is called "Rapid Fat Loss" and rather than phases it gives you a simple formula for determining your caloric needs.

Every maintinence plan has pros and cons. Counting calories gives you flexibility in what you eat but requires diligence and discipline in a different way than a rules based diet does. Phase 4 is rules based. You don't count calories but you follow the rules.

Ultimately fat loss or gain is an equation of energy and energy is measured in calories.

wantanewme
11-15-2013, 01:44 PM
No offense, this is a rediculous statement. Bear with me here ... I am not saying your experience is rediculous. You have seen what you have seen. I too, have read a large number of people who blame their regain on the fact that they did not phase off properly as well.

This statement though, is complete bunk. (Bolded in your quote)

The reason people regain after IP has nothing to do with the phases it has everything to do with the number of calories they eat. You can go from phase 1, to not being on the IP diet, and not regain a single pound of fat it simply matters how many calories you ingest.

What I always suggest to IP dieters who are having success is to look forward at phase four and try to determine if they can live with the phase 4 rules for the rest of their life. At the end of the day, one must restrict the calories one ingests. The method is relevant only in that everyone will find one method easier than another to follow.

i see your point. it doesn't matter if i take the time to phase off properly if we don't create good, life-long habits after the diet is done. if i go back to eating the way i was i'm going to gain it all back. but i do want to make another point that i believe is important to consider when switching plans or thinking about how to maintain. some of us (including myself) started IP as much for health reasons as we did to lose weight. in my case i have pcos, and am insulin resistant and pre-diabetic. i've lost weight in different ways before including calorie counting (weight watchers) and intense exercise and both have served me well. but in the long run following a low-carb diet (coupled with physical activity of course) is going to be my best bet for avoiding diabetes and maintaining a healthy weight. just something to consider before makings plans for the long run!

Ferk
11-15-2013, 05:41 PM
Although I'm a believer in IP for weight loss (it has totally worked for me), I think the phases are BS and designed to keep people on the plan longer than is necessary. My coach said plenty of people skip Phase 2 because it's pretty much a non-phase. I'm moving into Phase 3 and the only IP thing I'm eating is the after dinner snack. Why exactly I need to do this for 2 weeks is beyond me.
If you gain a bunch of weight back after IP it's because you've started eating too much, bottom line.

trishthayer
11-15-2013, 11:09 PM
What about the 3 to 5 pound gain when you add in more carbs?? After a low carb diet is that not a glyserian (sorry for the spelling) storage one time gain? That is not calorie based or is that wrong? I am now confused, lol!

JohnP
11-16-2013, 01:19 PM
What about the 3 to 5 pound gain when you add in more carbs?? After a low carb diet is that not a glyserian (sorry for the spelling) storage one time gain? That is not calorie based or is that wrong? I am now confused, lol!

You make a good point. When I talk about regain I am talking about fat which is different than weight which reflects changes in water and glycogen stores.

Avalon1957
11-16-2013, 02:08 PM
I know for me that "calorie in / calorie out" budgets do work. One key thing is to figure out your BMR then add in exercise to give a higher burn rate ... then just eat fewer caloroes than that total.

I lost 100+ pounds on a "Macaroni and Cheese and Chocolate Chip Cookie Diet" in 2001-2002, but I was keeping my total calories per day at 1200 (eating just those foods). Using that diet, I was losing about 12 to 15 pounds a month pretty steadily.

One thing I like about IP is with the big carb and sugar restriction my cravings are much less and I find it's easier to stick too and I am rarely hungry. Plus I am a lot healthier with better blood workups.

SuzieV
11-16-2013, 02:15 PM
I've been doing a lot of reading/research on what to do for me after IP. I agree that calories count and I need to exercise, both cardio & strength training, but my enemy are CARBS. They are like chips...I can't eat just one! So I'm going with low carb & gluten free and making a point to get in my protein. There is life after IP, you just need to figure out what works for YOU :)

Lolo70
11-16-2013, 02:36 PM
I went off IP cold turkey and switched to a relatively high carb diet. I found I did not regain anything. Not even the "glycogen store" freebie pounds. That was probably because I exercise and my body restored glycogen already during IP. I have since maintained. I think phasing off may be good after long-term low carb dieting. I do not know what the IP people say, but I found that bile acids and digestive enzymes necessary for carb digestion may get down regulated during a low carb diet. As a result you may have indigestion for a couple of weeks. I also found I had a problem with water homeostasis in the gut. Leading to something called nicely "dumping syndrome". I suspect low carb systemically alters hormonal balance. All of this disappeared after about 2-3 months. It may be the "gluten intolerance" that many observe after IP.

Other than that, John is right that once you loose the weight, you have to figure out how much you can eat to maintain. In my case this is a ridiculously low number and probably due to some hormonal problems that slow down my metabolism. However, I can eat carbs without a problem as long as I keep it within a caloric range. I suggest you just choose the diet that you like to eat focusing on fresh ingredients and natural foods. And do not forget to exercise.

learning to fly
11-16-2013, 03:18 PM
I remember reading something along the lines of phase 1 lets pancreas rest and then it gets restarted slowly as opposed to dumping a huge amount of carbs onto it to deal with....(obviously I paraphrased it :))

I googled and this is the link that was first up: http://www.erichsenwellness.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/01/Phase-3-explanation.pdf

According to this, one of the objectives of Phase 3 is to:
"Re‐start" the pancreas' production of insulin and actually "train" the organ to produce the correct amount of this hormone in response to the carbohydrates that are consumed. In other words we are going to address the problem of hyperinsulinemia, a condition which many experts feel is the root cause of Metabolic Syndrome or Syndrome X.

The other 2 objectives are to train metabolism to work with a higher calories and to educate the dieter .... I suggest that you read it as it does seem like reasonable explanation to me.

kelseys928
11-16-2013, 04:29 PM
I feel as though I will probably lose the remaining weight to get to 160 on IP but then will switch to something else maybe to lose some more. I know people on this forum will ask why I don't just stay on until my ultimate goal but just thinking for the future I would rather do something I can eventually do for life and I don't see myself eating as you are supposed to on phase 4 for life.

JohnP
11-16-2013, 08:29 PM
I remember reading something along the lines of phase 1 lets pancreas rest and then it gets restarted slowly as opposed to dumping a huge amount of carbs onto it to deal with....(obviously I paraphrased it :))

I googled and this is the link that was first up: http://www.erichsenwellness.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/01/Phase-3-explanation.pdf

According to this, one of the objectives of Phase 3 is to:
"Re‐start" the pancreas' production of insulin and actually "train" the organ to produce the correct amount of this hormone in response to the carbohydrates that are consumed. In other words we are going to address the problem of hyperinsulinemia, a condition which many experts feel is the root cause of Metabolic Syndrome or Syndrome X.

The other 2 objectives are to train metabolism to work with a higher calories and to educate the dieter .... I suggest that you read it as it does seem like reasonable explanation to me.

Nope. This is total garbage. No offense to you, you're just repeating the information.

The pancreas does not need to rest. It does not need to be restarted. Your body is producing quite a lot of insulin the entire time you're on phase one. Eating protein alone causes more insulin to be released than eating carbs alone. For that matter, whey protein causes more insulin to be released than any other type of protein.

I can go into more detail if you have specific questions but the bottom line is that you can go directly off phase 1 to any other type of diet. What Lolo said about carbs and indigestion is true but that is also highly dependant on the individual and how long one has been on phase 1.

learning to fly
11-17-2013, 03:46 AM
Your body is producing quite a lot of insulin the entire time you're on phase one. Eating protein alone causes more insulin to be released than eating carbs alone.

John, I gotta say, I am completely shocked. Everything I thought is turned on its head! I googled just enough to see someone talk about something like that, but I am wondering if you could point me to a good source for that information? And also if you don't mind I'd like to know, just how do you know so much? Are you a researcher in this field, or how exactly do you have this much info? And related to that, you seem to have so much confidence in your knowledge...but there are always new studies that put some new spins on what everyone thought they knew.

I guess my question would then be: is there any point in limiting carbs on this diet (IP) other than that it simply lowers the number of total calories?

Sunflower40
11-17-2013, 01:22 PM
John, I gotta say, I am completely shocked. Everything I thought is turned on its head! I googled just enough to see someone talk about something like that, but I am wondering if you could point me to a good source for that information? And also if you don't mind I'd like to know, just how do you know so much? Are you a researcher in this field, or how exactly do you have this much info? And related to that, you seem to have so much confidence in your knowledge...but there are always new studies that put some new spins on what everyone thought they knew.

I guess my question would then be: is there any point in limiting carbs on this diet (IP) other than that it simply lowers the number of total calories?

I would like to know the answer to this too:D especially the last part.
I am switching up plans for a couple of weeks to see how my body/scale reacts - yesterday I had just over a hundred grams of carbs and 1200 calories. I needed a break from IP

lisa32989
11-17-2013, 02:41 PM
In the low carb community, whey protein is pretty well-known as being more insulin-stimulating than other sources of protein (casein, for example, is slower acting on blood sugar).

Where John & I differ on our info is this: He believes a calorie is a calorie and it is ALL about calories in/calories out. I tend to lean toward the carb restricted approach and have been interested in the (good) research available. There is also bad research so you have to know how to read research. Example: research on high-fat diets had subjects eating burgers & fries. We all know burgers and fries are high CARB/high fat. The carbs have been ignored in many of these studies trying to "prove" that high fat diets are bad for us.

I have read research exclusively on carb reduction, especially sugars and faster-acting grains. There seems to be MUCH success with a low carb but higher-fat diet (which doesn't restrict calories nearly as much as IP). Ketosis really does help with hunger-management, which can also help the dieter with the calorie restriction. However, severely carb restricted diets can be hard on thyroid/adrenals. My body definitely reacted to this.

Bottom line is this: If it works for you, do it. If it doesn't, keep looking for the plan that will give you the motivation-factor to work for you. IP P1 was the motivational factor for me for quite a while, until my thyroid needed a break.

I agree with John about the phase-off. However I chose to do it slowly b/c I wanted to maintain a smaller carb/calorie intake than I'd been doing prior to IP. IP teaches a way to maintain. I'm not sure it is the way I will maintain. But it is one way and can certainly work.

One of the biggest things I learned was the re-introduction of grains had some effect on my digestive system. From my reading (and putting it in simple terms), there are enzymes that sort of "hibernate" when the body doesn't need them. So if we introduce grains quickly, they don't digest efficiently, until the enzymes "wake up" and become available to digest them again. So, John is right, the pancreas really never "rests" nor be "restarted" but the grains/starch carbs caused my gut some havoc on days I had more. It is kind of like the body needs to "relearn" how to digest them again. It happens quickly (over a few days) but it explains how a carb binge can cause digestive upset.

AlisonS
11-17-2013, 03:49 PM
I have no medical studies to cite, but I really doubt that you are secreting tons of insulin in Phase 1. I am a former diabetic who used to take a TON of insulin per day, and I know what it feels like when you have extra circulating in your blood system. Didn't happen in Phase 1 for me! Pre-IP I was taking 160 units of Lantus and 35 units of Apidra per day. Now I take nothing and my A1C is 5.1. I transitioned off IP starting August 31, so some time has passed with no increase in my fasting sugars.

Lolo70
11-17-2013, 06:36 PM
I think whey protein causes an insulin spike, but it is less prolonged than what you get with carbs. My personal opinion is that low carb diets affect the liver a lot more than the pancreas. If you have any hidden liver problems, they will come out after a while on IP. I experienced the same Lisa did and we both seem to have some thyroid problems. So, maybe that is something to watch out.

Low carb/high fat has been researched more because it is Atkins. Also, the ketosis hypothesis started out from research on epilepsy. It has been used for years to treat children's epilepsy. Those diets worked better than any drug treatment and were even lower carb and higher fat than Atkins. They have no shifted to an Atkins-like diet. This already show that low carb has a significant effect on body physiology. Right now the research has shifted to cancer and because calorie restriction has been thought to be anti-aging, also to aging research. We will know a lot more about low carb/low fat versus low carb/high fat in a couple of years.

I concur with Lisa that calorie in/calorie out does not work in many cases. I found I can maintain perfectly on any type of diet, but loosing only works with low carb. It is known that thyroid hormones and sex hormones can regulate your metabolic rate. So, this makes perfect sense, since the levels of these hormones are also regulated indirectly in response to insulin. This may be more pronounced in women compared to men. Women have less muscle mass and have to deal with a genetic program that promotes weight gain among other things for child bearing.

IP wants to make money. Since they charge 3-4x more for almost the same products than other companies, they better come up with a good story line to make people believe they sell something special. I still think that low carb is sent from heaven for weight loss, although it simply does not work for me anymore. At some point health trumps weight loss.