General chatter - Labeling women "crazy"




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Wannabeskinny
11-14-2013, 10:31 AM
If anyone has ever been in an argument with a man and he's thrown out the C-word, this article is for you.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/harris-oamalley/on-labeling-women-crazy_b_4259779.html


novangel
11-14-2013, 01:03 PM
Every single time I've been called "crazy" it was after I accused someone of cheating, which I was always right about in the end. It's a huge waving red flag that they are lying when they go on the defense and accuse you of being delusional. Never fails.

EagleRiverDee
11-15-2013, 04:55 PM
*Nod* My DH used to call me "crazy", "hysterical", "insane" and other words like that when we would fight. I told him that it was unacceptable because he's effectively saying that whatever I'm upset about has no merit and it's insulting.


fitmom
11-15-2013, 05:17 PM
I've been with my hubby for over 20 years, and yes, a few times he called me crazy...usually around TOM.

Lecomtes
11-15-2013, 05:26 PM
If my man ever called me crazy I would prove his point right there! lmao! Great article. I have had this happen to me a few times, being dismissed as emotional or more commonly the "over-thinking" piece. Let's just let women be themselves already!

Wannabeskinny
11-15-2013, 05:27 PM
Fit mom I'm stealing your quote haha!

Arctic Mama
11-15-2013, 05:54 PM
Sorry, every female I've called crazy has been, quite literally, out of control and displaying borderline symptoms. "Hysterical" is definitely a term with sexist roots, and yet there is validity and truth in stereotyping. In some cases it may be more accurate to say a female is approaching a situation with assumptions in place and responding with accusations and emotionally uncontrolled outbursts, rather than actual insanity. But I've seen some truly bizarre displays from adult and teenaged women that I would, in no way class, as sane or rational in their base. They are, to use the colloquialism, acting crazy. And yes, some are actually crazy.

I figure a better response to such things is to pause and ask myself if there is any truth there, before knee jerk assuming someone is just being sexist, mean, or trying to shut down argument. Sometimes they really are doing that - and sometimes I need to exercise a great degree more control and logic, and a great deal less lability.

I think self insight must be paired with the author's own check on his assumptions - too many women use their sex as an excuse to behave in appalling ways. Men, too, though it typically looks different.

GlamourGirl827
11-15-2013, 06:29 PM
I think this is something that exists, but i just dont give a sh!t...I'm sure there's a long line of people that think I'm crazy. I say what I want, I don't hold back if I feel something, I'm blunt...I think if it this way, who cares if someone thinks I'm crazy? Where's their medical degree and experience with the mentally ill that gives them the right to say that?

People think a lot of things about a lot of people...crazy, to me is just one more on the list..if I cross paths with someone that thinks I'm crazy for being expressive that just means we shouldnt stay friends or whatever, because as far as I'm concerned I'm not crazy lol, but same goes for if I think someone else is nutso..like my SIL, she's not batsh!t crazy, but she literally does show classic signs of narcissistic personality disorder...and DH and are medical educated and have experience with mentally ill so its something we aren't just pulling out of our behinds....anyway, my SIL doesnt think she's crazy, she would probably read this article and be like "yeah my husband always calls me crazy and I'm not"...but she IS...lol so I guess its a matter of opinion..or lack of insight into ones own craziness...I guess ones person's "normal" os another person's crazy...

PatLib
11-15-2013, 11:17 PM
Crazy goes both ways. Sure, people overreact but typically when I am calling someone crazy I am engaging in behavior that irritates them.

Like, my mom hates going down the main street in my hometown because it scares her. It's totally irrational, especially when I am driving. But I know she is going to flip out and I have to ask myself is it worth her irrational reaction to save ten minutes? And aren't I equally crazy to even consider going down that street if it upsets her that much? Just because I don't scream or yell doesn't mean my actions are more mature.

If someone calls someone crazy because of an outburst, they should ask themselves are they doing something they know will hurt/upset/enrage that person. If they know what they are doing, well that just make them a psychopath.

Which I why I just don't drive down main street with my mom in the car. :)

sacha
11-16-2013, 07:19 AM
I'm waiting to read the article about men being "jerks" ;)

Diamondonalandmine
11-16-2013, 09:16 AM
Every single time I've been called "crazy" it was after I accused someone of cheating, which I was always right about in the end. It's a huge waving red flag that they are lying when they go on the defense and accuse you of being delusional. Never fails.

Yup! another term used on me was paranoid. But I didn't let it go and in the end I uncovered the truth and I was bang on, and damn that felt good to be right:carrot:. I was so happy with myself for not letting it go lol

Wannabeskinny
11-16-2013, 10:39 AM
Being crazy is not a matter of personal opinion. Even someone that has legitimate medical issues does not deserve to be called crazy.

Any time a word is thrown out and meant to encapsulate them and stop them from expressing themselves is downright controlling. You cannot explain a person with one word, and even if their response seems disporporionate to the situation does not mean that they are automatically mentally ill.

Arctic Mama
11-16-2013, 04:04 PM
I disagree that you can't explain a person with a word. That's what adjectives are for! And again, I know too many people who are well and truly crazy - irrational, paranoid, low functioning, and so extremely labile that it is better to avoid than explain/discuss just about anything from the weather to politics with them. It's an exercise in my own insanity to do so. And a fair number are women (some men, but again, they manifest this stuff differently than women, so the handling of it varies a bit).

And I also would love to see an article on men being "jerks" - I think that gets misapplied for shutting down legitimate discussion as much as "crazy" for women. More, in the circles I've run in, where the women just assume the motivations of the men and go happily on their way believing themselves right and justified, rather than maturely and carefully assessing the individual and situation with a more neutral eye.

PatLib
11-16-2013, 05:54 PM
I think the difference between men being "jerks" vs. women being "crazy" is that men weren't sent to institutions for being "jerks" and women were for being "crazy."

Expressing sexual desire was considered "crazy," being a suffragette was "crazy." I think ignoring the historical use of the word "crazy" towards women and the abuse used by generalizing women as crazy is sort of disingenuous to the conversation.

That being said, I agree that I think there has been an unflattering and quite damaging shift in feminism that has always existed but become extreme.

Example, we tell women they are free to be sexually aggressive but if a man does it he is typically labeled a rapist. I think this type of mentality is pretty a dangerous and most likely damaging to any idea of true equality of the sexes.

kaplods
11-16-2013, 07:32 PM
Women are crazy (but men must never say so, if they value their lives) and men are idiots (and women can point this out anytime, anywhere).

Those are the stereotype I was raised with. I grew up in a very matriarchal family in a part of the midwest where male-bashing is acceptable anywhere anytime and where female-bashing had better never be done within earshot of any female.

Men who don't agree with everything a woman says are accused of thinking the woman is crazy. Few men are brave enough to actually make the accusation. Women however are free to call a man all sorts of things, but "idiot" is probably the most common.


I try not to fall into the habits I grew up with. I try not to call or think of my husband as an idiot, but habits learned early are hardest to break.

I have called my husband an idiot and he has called me crazy. In fairness, he was acting like an idiot when I called him that, and I was acting crazy when he used that word.

Although both my family and hubby's family see him as being a "jerk," I'm more likely to be the intentionally "mean" one in an argument. Hubby can be insensitive because he doesn't have a whole lot of empathy. He's generous to a fault, but he doesn't always understand complex emotions and rules of ettiquette. If he hurts your feelings, it's generally accidental.

I'm extremely difficult to piss off, but if you manage to do it, you will feel every bit of my wrath, and I will call you whatever I know will hurt the most.

I fight very hard to keep tight control over my inner she-demon, but PMS does bring her out. Hubby has (accurately) called my crazy, moody, and even "werewolf" because of my severe hormonal mood swings (and craving for red meat) during pms/tom.

It's also during this time of month that I'm likely to see and accuse him of being an idiot. Idiot or not, he's rarely stupid enough to call me anything unflattering during my "crazy phase." It's only when the danger has passed that he may make reference to it.

I accept the "crazy" label, because it's a pretty accurate description of my behavior, when my hormones are running amok. On the right birth control, my inner werewolf was tightly leashed, possibly even in remission for the last few years (and hubby stopped using the term). Now, as I'm entering pre-menopause, the werewolf is back.

Men and women often think SO differently, that it can be difficult for a person of one gender to think of the other as anything but defective or broken. It's often difficult to be empathetic enough to see the differences as postive or even neutral.

Hubby and I get along so well, because we're both willing to see ourselves as defective. We're ok with being seen as strange and odd to others and even to each other and ourselves. We're pretty accepting and even embracing of the crazy in each other.

Arctic Mama
11-16-2013, 07:38 PM
Relying on history, rather than respect and morality, to justify the labeling, treatment, or response to a person; that is dangerous business. I think we can agree it is best to treat every person we come across fairly, rationally, and without presumption of motivation, no matter their sex. Responding to their words and conduct, not to ascribed characteristics, seems to be the most just response to a situation.

I believe that is what the original article was getting at, or what it should have been aiming for.

Arctic Mama
11-16-2013, 07:43 PM
Kaplods - the sort of situation you grew up in is something I have seen so much of. I find that very troubling, being the wife of a good and respect-worthy man and the mother of a young son and young daughters. ALL my children need to understand both appropriate gender roles and how to thrive without denigrating the opposite sex. Such attitudes are hurtful at best and destructive at worst.

I've acted crazy, too, and in those situations I have been so. Some was medication and hormones, most was just an appalling lack of self control - like a toddler's tantrums. And those feelings are nothing worth justifying or defending, simply because they exist. Being gracious, patient, gentle, and thoughtful is far better, and has the added bonus of lacking "the crazy". It also makes for a peaceful home and delightful marriage ;)

Nobody is perfect, but being slow to anger and self controlled in our responses keeps our marriage of two very sinful people the best thing in our lives. Once either one of us gives into irrationality or believes themselves to be above blame in a situation, things decline veeeeery quickly!

PatLib
11-16-2013, 07:53 PM
I agree! But honestly, I think most (not all there is always an exception to the rule) of this PMS busllcrap is in our heads.

That isn't to say I don't think our hormones go out of whack (I mean, science says that they do), but I think women have been raised that any or whatever behavior is exhibited during PMS/TOM is acceptable. And I think that it just making women the weaker sex, if we expect men to overcome the stereotypical behaviors associated with men such as aggressive, piggishness than I think we can overcome giving into the hormonal urges.

I think I was lucky in some ways, my mother never indulged the invalid behavior during my periods. I pretty much was told to get over it or go to my room if I wanted to mope. That isn't to say I haven't had an outburst but they are rare and I was already emotionally fragile over something else before my period started.

kaplods
11-16-2013, 09:15 PM
I agree! But honestly, I think most (not all there is always an exception to the rule) of this PMS busllcrap is in our heads.

I used to believe this, but now I actually believe the very opposite of this. I think hormones account for far more of our human behavior than we have ever acknowledged.

That doesn't mean we throw our hands in the air and use hormones as an excuse for vile behavior, but I think most menstruating women would find surprising patterns if they used a period and mood/symptom-tracking app.

Also, not all of the hormonal effects on behavior are bad either. Hubby noticed the pattern first (he's got a compulsive "pattern recognition" fixation) and I didn't believe him until I started tracking using a tracking app, but every month, I have an almost manic cleaning/fixing/organizing phase, when I want to improve some aspect of my life or environment.

The irony is that I had less control over my behavior when I thought pms was nonsense. Now, seeing and recognizing the patterns, I have more tools to fight the influence of the hormones. When I didn't believe hormones COULD have so much influence, I just did and said what came naturally. Only the people around me noticed the difference - and only hubby was brave enough (or foolish enough) to point out the patterns.

Hubby is a bit too habit oriented, as he pointed out many patterns that fall into the TMI category, such as patterns in my food choices, IBS symptoms and related potty habits, sleep/snore patterns and body odor.

Knowing the patterns allows me function much more successfully. I know "manic phase" is not the time to go shopping, but it's the perfect time to put more time into exercise, batch cooking, and house chores. I know that "hunger week" is not the time to be cooking or going out to eat. "Angry phase" or "Slow brain" phases are not the time to have serious or critical conversations with loved ones on important topics.

Knowledge is power, and while most women probably don't need to know much about the degree or nature of their hormonal influences, I do suspect it would be useful. It's just not soemething a woman is likely to bother with without a compelling reason.

PatLib
11-16-2013, 10:03 PM
In my comment I said that I believed that the hormonal imbalance is real, what I don't believe in is allowing it to control you behavior. I control myself and others can do it too.

Example of what I mean, in the movie No Strings Attached with Natalie Portman. The women acted incapacitated which isn't real for the average woman. How many times does a woman behave irrationally in a TV or film and it is accepted because of her period? I willing to bet most women feed off that subconsciously. I see it happen at work and other facets of my life all the time. I guess what I don't believe in the PMS Manipulation Game that a lot but not all women play. I mean I willing to bet at least half the women on this site (including myself) use their PMS/TOM to get out of PE as kid? I have used the cramps thing hundreds of time. A lot of women use crazy when it suits our purpose and PMS is a part of that.



My point is, PMS exists but not on the level a lot of girls are taught and then later used in life to explain away bad behavior. I was told to get over, and I did. My period doesn't change my personality into a banshee and it shouldn't do that to anyone.

Arctic Mama
11-17-2013, 02:49 AM
Definitely, Pat. I agree.

I've always had very mild PMS, thankfully, though when it has worsened in some seasons I've just had to cope appropriately (planning a simpler meal plan, exercising extra patience with the children even when I think they're being totally ridiculous [because my perception may well be hypersensitive], taking a nap, eating extra omega-3, shifting some of my workload onto my husband when I'm in a lot of pain and need to sit for a bit, etc).

I feel terrible for the women with true PMDD - where it's biological and not psychosomatic or mild enough to manage easily. I agree with you that much is in women's heads, and that can make diagnosing real cases of imbalance more difficult!

I'm so glad birth control helped you out, Kaplods. I'm generally opposed to the stuff for it's oft-prescribed purpose (barrier moods have less slide effects for healthy women, and the added bonus of std protection), but for corrective measures with female hormones it can be an absolute miracle worker.

Wannabeskinny
11-17-2013, 09:52 AM
I think the difference between men being "jerks" vs. women being "crazy" is that men weren't sent to institutions for being "jerks" and women were for being "crazy."

Expressing sexual desire was considered "crazy," being a suffragette was "crazy." I think ignoring the historical use of the word "crazy" towards women and the abuse used by generalizing women as crazy is sort of disingenuous to the conversation.

That being said, I agree that I think there has been an unflattering and quite damaging shift in feminism that has always existed but become extreme.

Example, we tell women they are free to be sexually aggressive but if a man does it he is typically labeled a rapist. I think this type of mentality is pretty a dangerous and most likely damaging to any idea of true equality of the sexes.

By posting the article I was hoping to bring to light one example of the word "crazy" being used. And it is for the purpose of making a woman's voice invalid during an argument especially in the context of speaking to a romantic partner. By posting does not mean I automatically think it's ok to call men "a jerk" and I'm willing to bet that neither does the author of the article.

I can personally attest to the experience of being upset about something and trying to talk to my husband about it. There have been times when he's pulled the c-word and each of those times it has sent me into a tailspin of despair. There's nothing you can say to anyone once they call you crazy. The conversation is over, you feel terrible about yourself, you question your own sanity, and you immediately know that nothing you are saying is valid or even being heard. It's a muzzle. It's not something that happens often but when it has happened I've reached levels of anger I could never fathom and I could never articulate why. This article has actually helped me understand and I showed it to my husband who finally saw things through my eyes.

I too think the historical use of this word should not be ignored, calling men a jerk has never led to dire consequences for the man. A man has never been institutionalized for being thought of as a jerk, a man has never been castrated for being thought of as a jerk. Women have endured a long history of abuse and even death for the slightest doubt of their sanity.

RavenWolf
11-17-2013, 11:36 AM
I have been called "crazy" and the "b" word more times than I can count! And you know what? I embrace my "crazy b-ness!" I know that I DO come off as both when I'm threatened or angry. It is what it is and I'm not the least bit offended by it.

In fact, I just asked someone close to me if they can "Deal with my kind of crazy" and they said yes. LOL! I'm not ashamed to be me, speak my mind and get "crazy" if need be.

I found the article interesting and glad you shared it!

kaplods
11-17-2013, 02:08 PM
I'm so glad birth control helped you out, Kaplods. I'm generally opposed to the stuff for it's oft-prescribed purpose (barrier moods have less slide effects for healthy women, and the added bonus of std protection), but for corrective measures with female hormones it can be an absolute miracle worker.


My pms/pmdd was severe enough at 12, that my pediatrition suggested birth control as an option. My mother and I rejected the idea immediately, largely because of our religious beliefs (Roman Catholic).

I was in my mid to late 20's before I got desperate enough to give bc a chance.

I endured almost two decades of severe symptoms, with my family and even doctors telling me there was nothing wrong with me. PMS was entirely psychosomatic and I needed to suck it up, and stop being a baby about it.

My mother also rarely gave any consideration for pms. I was not allowed to use tom as a reason to skip any class, even pe. The only "excuse" I was generally allowed was from showering during the week of pe.

In junior high, I had a very cruel gym teacher who objected even to this, as she didn't believe that I could possibly be on my period for as long as I claimed. Pre-bc, I had a 23-25 day cycle and my period was not only frighteningly heavy, it also was rare to last less than a week. 8-10 days was more common.

The cramps were so severe that I didn't get a single benefit from any of my classes, because I couldn't concentrate on anything. I was a straight A student who rarely paid attention in class because I had read all my text books cover-to-cover in the first month of each semester.

Only in high school did my mother reluctantly allow me to miss a day or two of classes due to the cramps with the condition that my grades not drop. They actually improved (not a single A- that first semester).


When I finally tried bc, the effects were amazing. My cycle became 28 days with a 4-6 day period with cramping that was actually relieved by otc pain relievers. My weight gain also stopped (too bad I weighed 375 at the time). It was like a miracle, a miracle I could have had at age 12, when I weighed 190 lbs.

I cringe when I hear people say that pms is mostly fiction, because I was told for years that my severe pms (or mild to moderate pmdd, depending on which doctor you ask) were all in my imagination.

I'm (now) told my experiences are rare, but I was also told at the time that my experiences weren't even real, so I have very little faith in what people say and think about what is and isn't normal in regards to pms.

I think refusing to believe in the reality of any woman's experience of pms is the other side of the same mistake coin as blaming everything on women's menstrual cycle.

I wish my pediatrition had been more enthusiastic about recommending bc (he was an older Roman Catholic man himself and in the late 70's bc for teens was still seen as pretty controversial, even when birth control was not the goal, so when my mother and I rejected the idea, he seemed relieved).

My experience may be extreme, but it makes me a lot less likely to reject or dismiss anyone else's experience. If I had been believed at ages 10-12, I think my life would have been very different.

GlamourGirl827
11-17-2013, 04:49 PM
There's nothing you can say to anyone once they call you crazy. The conversation is over, you feel terrible about yourself, you question your own sanity, and you immediately know that nothing you are saying is valid or even being heard. It's a muzzle.

I agree with the parts I bolded. Personally, I don't question my own sanity nor do I feel bad about myself when someone calls me crazy. I'm quite certain of my own mental state, also I am aware how often people throw this word around, when in fact they are using it for the exact purpose this article states, because they don't want to deal with my feeling/emotions/opinions etc...SO I take it with a grain of salt.

But the bolded parts are true, even if I think the other person is so socially and emotionally void...or if they just don't give a hoot about how I feel, or whatever their reason...if they THINK I am crazy even if they are wrong, it absolutely ends the conversation. Because they have essentially said they are not longer giving thought to what I'm saying.

This is why I say when this occures, its time to end the relationship (friendship, romantic whatever)...But this type of dismissing of the pthers person's concerns can occure in many ways, calling someone crazy is just one. Its a deal breaker, not because of the word crazy, but because it causes an end to communication..or and end to listening...

Wannabeskinny
11-18-2013, 09:51 AM
I agree with the parts I bolded. Personally, I don't question my own sanity nor do I feel bad about myself when someone calls me crazy. I'm quite certain of my own mental state, also I am aware how often people throw this word around, when in fact they are using it for the exact purpose this article states, because they don't want to deal with my feeling/emotions/opinions etc...SO I take it with a grain of salt.

But the bolded parts are true, even if I think the other person is so socially and emotionally void...or if they just don't give a hoot about how I feel, or whatever their reason...if they THINK I am crazy even if they are wrong, it absolutely ends the conversation. Because they have essentially said they are not longer giving thought to what I'm saying.

This is why I say when this occures, its time to end the relationship (friendship, romantic whatever)...But this type of dismissing of the pthers person's concerns can occure in many ways, calling someone crazy is just one. Its a deal breaker, not because of the word crazy, but because it causes an end to communication..or and end to listening...

I don't know about that, my marriage is important to me and my husband is a very caring and intelligent person. I don't think I want to end my marriage just because he's thrown out the word "crazy" in the middle of a heated argument. It's a matter of learning how to communicate. And when he's called me that word it's caused me to break down and not been able to articulate why it makes me so angry, causing him to further think I'm going crazy. So I've called attention to it, had him read the article and he gets it. He doesn't want me to feel like that and we will find a better way to communicate.

I've never argued with anyone else where this word was brought up. Nobody has ever called me crazy except men I'm in relationships with. That's what this article specifically refers to. I've never had a friend or a stranger who's called me that nor have I ever given much thought to anyone being crazy. I guess if I suspect someone is incapable of functioning logically within the confines of our friendship I don't consider them friends anymore, I don't go up to them and call them crazy, I just walk away.

kaplods
11-18-2013, 11:12 AM
No word has to "shut down" or end communication unless both parties allow it.

I've been called crazy, and MUCH worse, working in juvenile detention and adult probation, and I didn't have the luxury of ending the communication or the relationship.

I do have the option and the luxury in personal relationships, but because of my professional training and experiences, I also understand that what's said under the duress of fear, anger, confusion and other emotional stressors doesn't reflect on anything other than the insult-flinger's emotional state.

My husband worked in HR in an auto-parts plant and also has a strong and varied communications background.

We're also both very stubborn, and the stubbornness gets in the way moreeasily than any word. As does the way our brains work and tour differing priorities and focus. Hubby values information over emotion, and my priorities are the reverse.

We both know that name-calling and insults are barriers to good communication, but it's only a deal-breaker or communication-ender if we both allow it to be, and we don't (at least not for long).

We've both said things we've regretted in the heat of an argument. He's called me stupid, crazy, stubborn, irrational, obsessive compulsive, inattentive.... and I've called him the very same things.

We both were raised in homes where poor and often intentionally cruel communication and grudge-holding were the norm. We've eliminated most of that in our communications, but only because we work at it, and we forgive each other when we lapse into the communication styles we grew up with.

When someone calls you crazy, 99% of the time they actually mean either, "You aren't hearing what I'm saying," or "I have no understand of your argument, point-of-view, actions, priorities, choices, thought processes.... and/or find them very foreign and upsetting."

When my husband is calm and rationa he is more likely to say " I don't get it," than to use the word crazy, but I've learned that "crazy" means "I don't get it, and I'm upset."

When I'm upset, I often get angry or cry. When hubby is upset or confused (at me, at anyone, at the world) he throws out the word crazy at anything he doesn't understand.

That doesn't make him a stupid, clueless jerk (even though I may throw that accusation at him during a heated argument).

Vex
11-18-2013, 03:05 PM
Funny, crazy is not the word that popped into my head when talking about the "c-word" with women.

Being called crazy doesn't bother me nearly as much as being called ugly or fat. Wonder why that is...

sacha
11-18-2013, 03:19 PM
My husband says that all women are crazy, some just less crazy than others. Men are all jerks, some less jerky than others. Crude generalization but I also think he's right. I know some won't agree and might get sociological on me but hey ;)

Elladorine
11-19-2013, 01:35 AM
Funny, crazy is not the word that popped into my head when talking about the "c-word" with women.

Being called crazy doesn't bother me nearly as much as being called ugly or fat. Wonder why that is...
Same on both counts.

Wannabeskinny
11-19-2013, 09:00 AM
No word has to "shut down" or end communication unless both parties allow it.

...
When someone calls you crazy, 99% of the time they actually mean either, "You aren't hearing what I'm saying," or "I have no understand of your argument, point-of-view, actions, priorities, choices, thought processes.... and/or find them very foreign and upsetting."
...
That doesn't make him a stupid, clueless jerk (even though I may throw that accusation at him during a heated argument).

For me when my husband has thrown out the word "crazy" it actually means "what you are saying is invalid, it has no grounding in my reality and therefore this conversation is over."

I have never used the words stupid or clueless to describe my husband, nor did I imply that men are generally jerks by bringing up the topic. But to me, when a man uses the word crazy he says it to shut her up. It'd almost be kinder to just say "I'm not listening anymore" than to label a person crazy. I may be particularly sensitive to it but I think boys from a young age are taught that whenever a girl becomes attached/emotional/or doesn't know how to process her feelings she immediately becomes "crazy" and I think it's a real stigma.

Song of Surly
11-19-2013, 03:52 PM
My boyfriend used to do this quite a bit, or either I'm really sensitive to it as well. Or well, he didn't always use the "C" word, but he often suggested that I was being over-emotional about something. A lot of this was control in an argument, however. For example, we'll be arguing, and he will say something that is really smart***. I, in reaction, get angry, at which point he says that I am getting "out of hand" and that he isn't angry. He uses his calmness as a way to invalidate my arguments, all the while being able to get jabs in that I am not supposed to react to in anger. This makes him sound like a giant jerk, I realize, but the important thing is he never realized he did it. He really just thought that he never gets "angry" in an argument, not realizing that his behavior is to purposely make the other party angry, thus taking the argument to a place it doesn't need to go.

As far as the general over-emotional label I found in my current relationship, I think it comes from a place of misunderstanding more than manipulation, though it does create the manipulation wannabeskinny talks about. We've talked about this subject a lot, and some of it stems from just how different our minds are. It's not necessarily a female vs. male thing, but if you're interested in MBTI and know anything about it, he's an E/INTJ and I'm an INFP. We process things differently, and honestly, yes, I feel more than he does. We've had to draw a very careful line. At times, I do need him to gently remind me that I am not being rational. I think all of us need help from time to time to get our head straight about a subject. Other times, I need to make clear to him when I feel that what I am saying comes from a place of genuine concern that he needs to stand up and pay attention to. Suggesting that he honors all of my feelings would probably not be very good for our relationship, because honestly, knowing myself, I realize that my emotions are very fickle and transient. It is important, however, that he honors my voice and not revert to a script when I am saying something he doesn't want to hear.

ETA: Beyond my own relationship, I do see this as a very damaging undercurrent in every day interactions and speech. It is common humor to disregard a woman's wants and desires as being fickle and hard to please. I don't think this teaches our young men a very good lesson about how to be a good future husband, and worse, it teaches our girls to censor themselves when they feel the need to voice their needs and wants.

Wannabeskinny
11-20-2013, 09:18 AM
What is MBTI?

Mrs Snark
11-20-2013, 09:41 AM
Myers-Briggs Type Indicator

Song of Surly
11-20-2013, 09:42 AM
What is MBTI?

http://www.myersbriggs.org/my-mbti-personality-type/mbti-basics/

It goes quite a bit more in depth than what is on that site, but it seemed like a succinct review. I think the test is good to help us maybe understand some of our weaknesses and strengths, but like anything, should be taken with a grain of salt. You can take a test anywhere online. My results have always been eerily accurate, though I feel like I've grown past some of the more negative behavior of my type as I've aged.

kaplods
11-20-2013, 07:54 PM
I just can't imagine staying in a relationship with a person I believed was intentionally attempting to invalidate or shut down my communication.

My husband and I both are often frustrated and even angry with ourselves and each other when communication is failing, and we each are prone to assumimg difficulties are mostly the other's "fault," but I think it would be the end of the relationship if either of us believed the other was ever deliberately being so blatently disrespectful.