Ideal Protein Diet - Why do you gain back so fast?




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itzroxy814
11-06-2013, 09:48 PM
I've been really curious about this... also kind of nervous. I keep hearing how when you stop this diet, you gain back A LOT and fast. Some have said "Well yeah, if you stop eating healthy and start your old habits, it will come back". But I remember someone saying they stopped and went to Weight Watchers, so still eating healthy, just not low cal/fat/carb.

What is the difference in stopping IP and stopping any other diet that makes the weight come back on so fast? I do intend to go through all phases, but it terrifies me that I may lose weight and a bad day or week could royally screw me and set me back so much.


JohnP
11-06-2013, 10:24 PM
First, there is a difference between fat loss/gain and weight loss/gain. So if you are on a very low carb diet and you start eating carbs you will gain weight as your body increases it's glycogen stores. For a large person this can represent 5 lbs or more. (For me it's about 8 lbs) This is not a gain in fat. Dispite what the IP diet says about insulin and ketosis fat loss/gain is always going to be an equation of energy/calories.

Second, when you're on a very low calorie diet, like IP, eating more food means you have more digesting and greater waste. Again, depending on the size of the person this can be 2-4 lbs. Also a gain in weight only, not fat.

Third, if you fall off the wagon and start eating you're very likely going to increase your sodium intake massively which results in more water retention. Nothing to do with fat gain. Some people this can be a very large contributor to weight gain.

As for actual fat gain - it is a matter of calories.

itzroxy814
11-06-2013, 10:32 PM
First, there is a difference between fat loss/gain and weight loss/gain. So if you are on a very low carb diet and you start eating carbs you will gain weight as your body increases it's glycogen stores. For a large person this can represent 5 lbs or more. (For me it's about 8 lbs) This is not a gain in fat. Dispite what the IP diet says about insulin and ketosis fat loss/gain is always going to be an equation of energy/calories.

Second, when you're on a very low calorie diet, like IP, eating more food means you have more digesting and greater waste. Again, depending on the size of the person this can be 2-4 lbs. Also a gain in weight only, not fat.

Third, if you fall off the wagon and start eating you're very likely going to increase your sodium intake massively which results in more water retention. Nothing to do with fat gain. Some people this can be a very large contributor to weight gain.

As for actual fat gain - it is a matter of calories.

I never would have thought of all that, thank you!


Avalon1957
11-07-2013, 06:21 AM
JohnP, brought up some excellent points. Thanks John!

I have a few more to add:

1. your BMR (basal metabolic rate) -- that is, the number of calories your body burns at rest is much higher if you are fatter. In other words, it takes more energy for your body to pump blood/fluids and to generally run a 300 pound body vs. a 150 pound body. So if you were used to eating x amount of food to maintain a 300 pound weight ... after you lose 100+ pounds ... if you go back to your eating habits that you had, when you weighed 300 pounds, you will gain weight back quickly as your body is now getting MORE of an excess in calories.

2. I think that many of us "serial dieters" who are "chronically fat" have bad food addictions; and when we "fall off the wagon" (end our diets) and start up with the whole bad food vicious cycle (that bad food, creates cravings for more bad food) ... then the bad feelings and feelings of failure when we start watching our weight climb often begets more eating (as an escape from our feelings of failure) ... so we get into a negative feedback loop. This is the major cause of yo-yo dieting and long term yo-yo weight charts (IMHO). Like my personal 40 year weight chart (talk about a classic yo-yo dieter, ME) ... (Note that only that last 60 pound "downward stroke" over the past 3 months, is the IP Diet ... all other downward strokes in my 40 yr weight chart were other various and assorted diets)

https://mindstar.com/scratch/WL_1975_2015.jpg

The only way to break the yo-yo cycle is to actually change the way you eat "normally" ... that is, don't allow yourself to ever "go off the diet" completely. So keep eating the 4 cups of steamed broccoli a day, keep eating the 8 oz of lean protein, supplement with a good quality protein powder (not necessarily IP), drink lots of water, and exercise. Avoid high carb foods, avoid fast food and sugars. I think that only with these "lifestyle changes" in the way we eat, do us "predisposed fat people" have any hope of keeping the weight off after a long diet.

https://mindstar.com/scratch/DietCartoons/final_phase.jpg

The final important thing is to always think of plateaus and maintaining a lower weight a "maintenance success" and not a "weight loss failure" ... sometimes it's impossible for us to get our bodies to get down to the weight that we "think" we "should be" ... but at even 75% or 50% or even 25% of goal, we see HUGE health benefits. so always try to maintain your "weight loss ground" and not get caught in one of those bad negative feedback loops where we gain all the weight (that we just lost) back in what seems like a flash (but is usually similar in timeframe to the time it took for you to lose it).

I personally have been one of these yo-yo dieters for the past 20+ years, where my weight is going either straight up or straight down (and hardly ever sideways, for any length of time). And I finally "saw the light" this year, that there are tremendous benefits to even having partial success and losing some of the weight that we want -- so even a partial success is a great thing IF we a committed and motivated/dedicated to keep it off (which sometimes can be harder than losing it in the first place).

So even with me still 70+ pounds overweight (not even 1/2 way to my goal), I am seeing HUGE health benefits:

- My blood pressure is 105/60 (it was 140/85 early this summer)
- My A1C is 5.5 (it was 10.0 in 2008)
- My blood sugar range is 90-120 (it was 120-180 early this summer)
- My cholesterol is in the 100's (it was 240 earlier this year)
- I have no back pain at all ... zero ... nada ... actually I dont have ANY PAIN, ANYWHERE!
- My feet don't hurt, even when I wear high heels
- I have no lung congestion (no fluid in the lungs) after I eat (this can be an early sign of congestive heart failure)
- I have no foot and/or ankle swelling and I lost 1/2 a shoe size (foot swelling can also be an early sign of congestive heart failure)
- I have a waistline (an hourglass figure) and look 100x better
- I dont take any prescription pills other than thyroxin for low thyroid (a condition i've had since 1990)

So even if all weight loss stopped for me tomorrow ... if I can just maintain this weightloss that I have achieved over the past 3+ months ... and stay at the level I am now ... it's a medical success. It's really important to change the way we all think about ourselves and our dieting and health.

Just remember this mantra after you make some headway into your weight loss ... weightloss plateaus are a "maintenance success" and not a "weight loss failure". That was a really important mind change (for me at least). I used to get so depressed during long weightloss plateaus and they often were the catalyst for me to end my dieting effort and were typically followed by me gaining all the weight back and more. I can remember so clearly thinking (in my dieting past) after a long 3 or 4 week weightloss plateau: "I am killing myself dieting, and I am not making any headway, what's the point" -- and I would just quit. Faulty thinking!! As I was at least healthier at that lower weight -- I should have been thinking about the whole thing differently.

The other thing is steamed frozen organic broccoli florets and lean chicken/turkey are my new BFFs (best friends forever)! This is NOT JUST A TEMPORARY DIET that I am on now, but the start of a new way of eating for the rest of my life.

M0vingon
11-07-2013, 08:02 AM
:bravo:Avalon, this s an AMAZING post. Thank you!

Ruth Ann
11-07-2013, 09:51 AM
Excellent posts John and Avalon! I know sometimes I get so invested in that scale number that I forget it's not the be all and end all of getting healthy and learning to eat right for the rest of my life. My blood pressure, cholesterol levels, blood sugar levels, etc are benefiting, my overall energy is better, etc., etc. These are all just as important as the number on the scale.




Just remember this mantra after you make some headway into your weight loss ... weightloss plateaus are a "maintenance success" and not a "weight loss failure". That was a really important mind change (for me at least). I used to get so depressed during long weightloss plateaus and they often were the catalyst for me to end my dieting effort and were following by me gaining all the weight back and more. I can remember so clearly thinking (in my dieting past) after a long 3 or 4 week weightloss plateau: "I am killing myself dieting, and I am not making any headway, what's the point" -- and I would just quit. Faulty thinking!! As I was at least healthier at that lower weight -- I should have been thinking about the whole thing differently.

What a great way to think of plateaus and slower losses. I think you are totally right that thinking of them as "failures" just sets us up for more failure. Considering them "maintenance successes" is a much better mindset. Positive thinking about weight loss is a powerful tool in our "getting healthy" arsenal!

GettinHealthyNow
11-07-2013, 10:24 AM
Thanks for posting those notes, John & Avalon. You're so right that this weight loss is about much more than getting into smaller clothes. That's just a pleasant after-effect in my mind. The kick in the a** that I needed to get on this program was when my blood pressure spiked this past summer. All those years of feeling huge and uncomfortable in my skin weren't enough to make me stop the bad eating - it was the fear of the road that high blood pressure was leading me down.

Kathy

brelo
11-07-2013, 11:11 AM
Avalon, loved your post. Got a question: could you elaborate on the part about the congestion in your lungs after eating? How was that related? Was it mainly salty food? If you have early signs of CHF does that go away after a weight loss?

Okay, that was more than a question and kind of big questions, too.

AND congrats on your great lab numbers! Mine are better too. Big changes are happening on the inside as well as the outside.

IanG
11-07-2013, 11:16 AM
I don't do IP.

But diet gets the weight off. Exercise keeps it off.

If you could work out while on IP it would be great training for maintenance.

I would be in trouble by now if it were not for my daily runs and weight training.

SuzieV
11-07-2013, 11:25 AM
Hopefully people will read this thread...lots of good info from John & Avalon. I want to jump on the health benefits band wagon! I'm the baby of the family and my kick in the a$$ was two siblings with diabetes and three with high BP & cholesterol. I did not want to travel their path. I make sure to think of their weight related health issues daily as my motivation to MAINTAIN and lose a bit more.

safetylady
11-07-2013, 12:02 PM
Great thread, lots of good information. Thanks

exesparz
11-07-2013, 12:02 PM
My doctor/coach also says that when you stop eating healthy your body stops being in ketosis and stops burning fat from the body.

learning to fly
11-07-2013, 12:23 PM
Wow, what amazing 2 posts! This should go into the sticky ... don't know who to contact for that...

EDIT: d-oh! I just added a post to the first sticky with the link for this thread.

Avalon1957
11-07-2013, 02:31 PM
Avalon, loved your post. Got a question: could you elaborate on the part about the congestion in your lungs after eating? How was that related? Was it mainly salty food? If you have early signs of CHF does that go away after a weight loss? Okay, that was more than a question and kind of big questions, too. AND congrats on your great lab numbers! Mine are better too. Big changes are happening on the inside as well as the outside.

Hello Brelo, Some of this might have been paranoia about congestive heart failure (CHF) since that killed my dad at age 80. My heart was definitely struggling at 320 to 340 pounds and it could no longer clear excess water from my body

Here is some good info on CHF from WebMD ...
"Congestive heart failure does not mean the heart has stopped working. Rather, it means that the heart's pumping power is weaker than normal. With heart failure, blood moves through the heart and body at a slower rate, and pressure in the heart increases. As a result, the heart cannot pump enough oxygen and nutrients to meet the body's needs. The chambers of the heart may respond by stretching to hold more blood to pump through the body or by becoming stiff and thickened. This helps to keep the blood moving, but the heart muscle walls may eventually weaken and become unable to pump as efficiently. As a result, the kidneys may respond by causing the body to retain fluid (water) and salt. If fluid builds up in the arms, legs, ankles, feet, lungs, or other organs, the body becomes congested, and congestive heart failure is the term used to describe the condition."

My CHF symptoms were due to me being too darned FAT and not from a weakened heart or some sort of structural issue ... and when i got my weight back into the 200's all of these CHF symptoms disappeared completely. Clearly 320 (or thereabouts) is a very critical weight level for my body where it goes from muddle-ing through, to actually starting to break down and die.

In terms of congestion in my lungs after a meal, it didn't really matter what I ate (it would happen even after broccoli and chicken when was above 320 pounds). And I found that when I would eat anything I was always clearing my lungs of water/fluid for about 30 to 45 minutes afterwards. (It feels a bit like lung congestion you might have after a bad flu). At that weight my body really starts towards some sort of really noticeable death spiral. I think what I have found is my own personal "death zone" which exists right around 320 pounds (for me) ... just like climbers on high mountains enter the death zone above 24,000 feet, a height above which their body starts to die.

Funny now at 266 (60 pounds less than where I was in late July) I feel GREAT ... I don't have any noticeable heart issues at all ... no excess swelling, no lung congestion, and my blood pressure also dropped to a nice low level. I honestly feel so healthy now that I think I could go run track if I wanted to.

So just like I am no longer diabetic at this lower weight, I no longer have any heart issues at all at this lower weight. Now this is not saying that I won't EVER ... but for now, at this lower weight, I am as healthy as I was at 30; and my doctor and my bloodwork confirm that.

CrystalWolf
11-07-2013, 03:01 PM
This has been interesting reading,thank you to all who have shared their insights. Some of the veterans around 3FC recommended reading the book Refuse to Regain, I am waiting on my copy that I ordered on Amazon. In the meantime I have been reading the author's blog, it is really enlightening to me. She recently posted something that might be worth the read for anyone interested.
http://www.refusetoregain.com/general-maintenance-strategies/

I am working on finding my own carb sensitivity level. Of course your mileage may vary, but I have accepted that I will need to watch my carbs forever.

brelo
11-07-2013, 04:14 PM
Thank you Avalon! Your posts today took time and thought and I want you to know it is appreciated. I have been trying to understand CHF a little more myself since it seems that being overweight alone is the only risk factor needed. I am paranoid, too! My weight has come down substantially but I am still a little concerned about lingering long term effects. I have had some breathing issues in the past which triggered the worry, so that little piece of your post really caught my attention.

Crystalwolf thank you for the link, I took a peek and it looks like a really great blog! Will have to spend some time there.

SuseRN
11-07-2013, 05:15 PM
This has been interesting reading,thank you to all who have shared their insights. Some of the veterans around 3FC recommended reading the book Refuse to Regain, I am waiting on my copy that I ordered on Amazon. In the meantime I have been reading the author's blog, it is really enlightening to me. She recently posted something that might be worth the read for anyone interested.
http://www.refusetoregain.com/general-maintenance-strategies/

I am working on finding my own carb sensitivity level. Of course your mileage may vary, but I have accepted that I will need to watch my carbs forever.

Thank you so much for sharing this!!! The most enlightening and accurate information about carbs. I am starting to respect carbs as they are like crack/heroin. Can you imaging telling a drug addict, "OK, now that you have beat this addiction, you may now start to smoke just a little bit of crack a day, but only a little bit"? That's what phasing on IP feels like!

lisa32989
11-07-2013, 05:47 PM
Thank you so much for sharing this!!! The most enlightening and accurate information about carbs. I am starting to respect carbs as they are like crack/heroin. Can you imaging telling a drug addict, "OK, now that you have beat this addiction, you may now start to smoke just a little bit of crack a day, but only a little bit"? That's what phasing on IP feels like!
Yes! Which is why I am remaining primarily gluten-free. I believe this will reduce the amount of "junk" carbs I expose myself to.
I'm also much more low carb (for the most part, on most days) on P4 than the p4 sheet calls for...but that way I'm not opening the can of worms for the addict inside.

In no way, shape, or form do I believe IP "cured" me of my food addiction that got me to 260 lbs on a 5'4.5" frame. I view myself as "in remission" from obesity and it can surely come back if I am not diligent.

Sunflower40
11-07-2013, 07:12 PM
I don't do IP.

But diet gets the weight off. Exercise keeps it off.

If you could work out while on IP it would be great training for maintenance.

I would be in trouble by now if it were not for my daily runs and weight training.

IandG how did you lose your weight if you don't mind me asking? you have done an amazing job losing that much, congratulations.

masenki
11-07-2013, 10:08 PM
Yes! Which is why I am remaining primarily gluten-free. I believe this will reduce the amount of "junk" carbs I expose myself to.
I'm also much more low carb (for the most part, on most days) on P4 than the p4 sheet calls for...but that way I'm not opening the can of worms for the addict inside.

In no way, shape, or form do I believe IP "cured" me of my food addiction that got me to 260 lbs on a 5'4.5" frame. I view myself as "in remission" from obesity and it can surely come back if I am not diligent.

This is so very true - carbs are addictive and got me in trouble. So now I refuse to buy "restrictive' or anything I that I want to stay away from after P1 - pancakes, bars, cereals, etc. Why do I want to make IP cookie or pizza, if I should stay away from them in order for me not to baloon back to where I started. I wish I could just have one ice cream sandwich - no, I had to have three. So I told myself - you better learn how to fight the hunger noise in your stomack, how NOT to crave pancakes and cookies. See how long it's going to last. In the meanwhile - my old pants are washed and going to the basement, not Salvation Army. Unfortunately I know better :(

Hockeymom40
11-12-2013, 11:08 AM
This is so very true - carbs are addictive and got me in trouble. So now I refuse to buy "restrictive' or anything I that I want to stay away from after P1 - pancakes, bars, cereals, etc. Why do I want to make IP cookie or pizza, if I should stay away from them in order for me not to baloon back to where I started. I wish I could just have one ice cream sandwich - no, I had to have three. So I told myself - you better learn how to fight the hunger noise in your stomack, how NOT to crave pancakes and cookies. See how long it's going to last. In the meanwhile - my old pants are washed and going to the basement, not Salvation Army. Unfortunately I know better :(

You really need to get rid of your big clothes. In your mind you will be able to justify gaining the weight back. I got rid of everything. I did gain back 20 lbs and now I only have one pair of pants that fit, cause they are stretch. I'll be damned if I'm going to buy new clothes. I'm back on the plan and the doing the Christmas challenge. The only good thing is I'm not working right now so I can live in yoga pants till I get there. :) I will get there, it's not an option.

dak1lls
11-12-2013, 11:22 AM
masenki: I definitely understand the inability to "just have one". Saturday night we had my grandsons over and ordered pizza. I could have eaten one piece, but I had three! These were good sized pieces of pizza too. I ended up quite sick, and had terrible abdominal pain. DH had the same reaction. As Lisa mentioned, staying away from gluten is probably a good idea.

I have been checking out a lot of Paleo recipes and trying them. So far, I am quite pleased, and even though they have sugars (not refined), but rather honey or pure maple syrup, I don't feel sick after eating them because they have coconut or almond flour. However, they do tend to trigger the carb cravings for me, so I must limit sweets.

I have found in maintenance that I still adhere mostly to P2, but have added some fattier dressings to my salad at lunchtime. I avoid fats at dinner and still have my protein bar for a snack. Initially I had the 2-3 pound weight gain once starting maintenance, but that went away the next week. By doing a P1 day after indulging in a fun day it has been possible to maintain, but I am only 3 weeks in. I find it feels like I could easily justify not doing the P1 day, so I have to be super vigilant and keep product on hand so I don't have any excuses.

f6noob
11-12-2013, 02:49 PM
I'm very glad this thread exists - I'm on this for the first time after being on other diets throughout my life and having always regained some of the weight - if not all of it back.

This diet is fairly easy - so far - i haven't strayed but I'm literally afraid to. I know how easy it is to get the mindset that, oh - it came off easy, i can get it off again. But I KNOW its not possible - at least not easy. So I'm really looking for a way that I can enter Phase 2, 3, 4 and then migrate off and not crash and burn.

I think / know that CARBs are my enemy. But wow, wouldn't I love to have some french fries once, or an ice cream treat with chocolate - but i guess i'll see how i migrate through the phases.

I think i'll take a look at the book mentioned above and find some formula to balance *fun / free day* with a series of P1 days.

Myabe i'll just stay on this forever....

dak1lls
11-12-2013, 03:02 PM
I'm very glad this thread exists - I'm on this for the first time after being on other diets throughout my life and having always regained some of the weight - if not all of it back.

This diet is fairly easy - so far - i haven't strayed but I'm literally afraid to. I know how easy it is to get the mindset that, oh - it came off easy, i can get it off again. But I KNOW its not possible - at least not easy. So I'm really looking for a way that I can enter Phase 2, 3, 4 and then migrate off and not crash and burn.

I think / know that CARBs are my enemy. But wow, wouldn't I love to have some french fries once, or an ice cream treat with chocolate - but i guess i'll see how i migrate through the phases.

I think i'll take a look at the book mentioned above and find some formula to balance *fun / free day* with a series of P1 days.

Myabe i'll just stay on this forever....

I have often thought it would just be easier to stay on this forever. Alas, that would not be healthy and I don't want to look like a bag of bones. lol. I love the fact that I can do a fun day and then follow it with a P1 day and maintain my goal weight. I love this thread as well because it is helpful to know we are all in the same boat. Carbs do set me up for some cravings, but as long as I am vigilant and don't eat unlimited quantities and follow the protocol, I know I can stay at my goal weight. You can definitely have treats once you are in maintenance, just be aware that it is not possible to return to old habits. I think if I thought I could never have treats again I would not be able to continue this successfully.

FitMom02
11-12-2013, 11:46 PM
This has been interesting reading,thank you to all who have shared their insights. Some of the veterans around 3FC recommended reading the book Refuse to Regain, I am waiting on my copy that I ordered on Amazon. In the meantime I have been reading the author's blog, it is really enlightening to me. She recently posted something that might be worth the read for anyone interested.
http://www.refusetoregain.com/general-maintenance-strategies/

I am working on finding my own carb sensitivity level. Of course your mileage may vary, but I have accepted that I will need to watch my carbs forever.

Wow...thanks for sharing!! I just read her latest post...and completely agree with her position on carbs. Once I get ready to phase off, I know I will have to watch those darn carbs very closely! I will have to order this book!

Jojo381972
11-13-2013, 02:45 PM
This has been interesting reading,thank you to all who have shared their insights. Some of the veterans around 3FC recommended reading the book Refuse to Regain, I am waiting on my copy that I ordered on Amazon. In the meantime I have been reading the author's blog, it is really enlightening to me. She recently posted something that might be worth the read for anyone interested.
http://www.refusetoregain.com/general-maintenance-strategies/

I am working on finding my own carb sensitivity level. Of course your mileage may vary, but I have accepted that I will need to watch my carbs forever.
That's a great link, thanks. Congrats on your weight loss! I keep thinking that maintaining will be the hardest part! :o

mckaren4
04-22-2014, 05:52 PM
Very interesting reading-thanks for sharing!!!!

dowey16
04-22-2014, 10:02 PM
Great reading

canadjineh
04-23-2014, 12:01 AM
Just a note on something to remember - it isn't just the carbs that cause the problem - it's the combination with higher fats - that is where maintenance menu stresses separating higher carb meal from a higher fat meal. Go back and read the introductory papers to Phase 1 that explain why we are lowering carbs AND going lower fat (as opposed to Atkins low carb higher fat) - Phase 3 & 4 sheets make it even clearer. ;)

What is the easiest to eat: 1/2 cup of granulated sugar or 1/2 a cup of butter or 1/2 a cup of ice cream. Why do you think that is?.....

The foods that most 'carb sensitive' people worry about are actually combos of higher carb & higher fat: pizza, pasta with cream sauce, mashed potato & gravy, cheeseburgers, cake, cookies, ice cream, etc... They lead to cravings, insulin problems and fat storage.
:burger::chockiss::jeno::cookie:

Liana

Cath138
04-23-2014, 09:07 AM
Personally, I didn't phase off. I did keep it off for 6 months, but then my grandfather died and it was my last semester in school, so I went back to eating my emotions and not working out at all and ignoring the scale. .. so I gained everything back... for me, I always gain back the weight when I start to eat my emotions again :-(
Hope this helps!

Lolo70
04-23-2014, 10:29 AM
Just a note on something to remember - it isn't just the carbs that cause the problem - it's the combination with higher fats - that is where maintenance menu stresses separating higher carb meal from a higher fat meal. Go back and read the introductory papers to Phase 1 that explain why we are lowering carbs AND going lower fat (as opposed to Atkins low carb higher fat) - Phase 3 & 4 sheets make it even clearer. ;)

What is the easiest to eat: 1/2 cup of granulated sugar or 1/2 a cup of butter or 1/2 a cup of ice cream. Why do you think that is?.....

The foods that most 'carb sensitive' people worry about are actually combos of higher carb & higher fat: pizza, pasta with cream sauce, mashed potato & gravy, cheeseburgers, cake, cookies, ice cream, etc... They lead to cravings, insulin problems and fat storage.
:burger::chockiss::jeno::cookie:

Liana

There is very little research on a low carb/low fat lifestyle. But one would have to be cautious to follow a ketogenic eating style that is also low fat for a significant amount of time. I think it is not healthy. Eating Atkins seems to be the better solution for most people, though one would have to check lipid levels regularly. I also do not think that carbs are a problem. But just look at the foods you listed as bad carbs. They are not bad carbs, they are largely junk food or plain sugar in the disguise of a cookie or frosting. Italian lifestyle is full of carbs, yet it is still a healthy way of eating. This is because Italians have a different attitude to food. They cook their meals and they eat relatively small portions. They do not go to a takeout or a supermarket and load up on oversized synthetic meals. Ready-made meals are loaded with stuff that is addictive.

eandc2006
04-23-2014, 11:13 AM
There is very little research on a low carb/low fat lifestyle. But one would have to be cautious to follow a ketogenic eating style that is also low fat for a significant amount of time. I think it is not healthy. Eating Atkins seems to be the better solution for most people, though one would have to check lipid levels regularly. I also do not think that carbs are a problem. But just look at the foods you listed as bad carbs. They are not bad carbs, they are largely junk food or plain sugar in the disguise of a cookie or frosting. Italian lifestyle is full of carbs, yet it is still a healthy way of eating. This is because Italians have a different attitude to food. They cook their meals and they eat relatively small portions. They do not go to a takeout or a supermarket and load up on oversized synthetic meals. Ready-made meals are loaded with stuff that is addictive.

Interesting dialogue here. I may be wrong but I have not found maintenance to be particularly low fat. In other words, I certainly indulge in fats at bfast everyday and lunch or dinner but do watch when combining...hence usually only bfasts. I have found that when I mix is when I have a problem.

CrimsonKitten
04-23-2014, 11:18 AM
I haven't phased into maintenance yet, but tend to agree with those who said if you go back to what you did prior to IP you'll be back to square one. Might be better to accept that this is a lifestyle change. They got us this far, so I am gonna trust the maintenance process.

Happydays123
04-23-2014, 12:41 PM
JohnP, brought up some excellent points. Thanks John!

I have a few more to add:

1. your BMR (basal metabolic rate) -- that is, the number of calories your body burns at rest is much higher if you are fatter. In other words, it takes more energy for your body to pump blood/fluids and to generally run a 300 pound body vs. a 150 pound body. So if you were used to eating x amount of food to maintain a 300 pound weight ... after you lose 100+ pounds ... if you go back to your eating habits that you had, when you weighed 300 pounds, you will gain weight back quickly as your body is now getting MORE of an excess in calories.

2. I think that many of us "serial dieters" who are "chronically fat" have bad food addictions; and when we "fall off the wagon" (end our diets) and start up with the whole bad food vicious cycle (that bad food, creates cravings for more bad food) ... then the bad feelings and feelings of failure when we start watching our weight climb often begets more eating (as an escape from our feelings of failure) ... so we get into a negative feedback loop. This is the major cause of yo-yo dieting and long term yo-yo weight charts (IMHO). Like my personal 40 year weight chart (talk about a classic yo-yo dieter, ME) ... (Note that only that last 60 pound "downward stroke" over the past 3 months, is the IP Diet ... all other downward strokes in my 40 yr weight chart were other various and assorted diets)

https://mindstar.com/scratch/WL_1975_2015.jpg

The only way to break the yo-yo cycle is to actually change the way you eat "normally" ... that is, don't allow yourself to ever "go off the diet" completely. So keep eating the 4 cups of steamed broccoli a day, keep eating the 8 oz of lean protein, supplement with a good quality protein powder (not necessarily IP), drink lots of water, and exercise. Avoid high carb foods, avoid fast food and sugars. I think that only with these "lifestyle changes" in the way we eat, do us "predisposed fat people" have any hope of keeping the weight off after a long diet.

https://mindstar.com/scratch/DietCartoons/final_phase.jpg

The final important thing is to always think of plateaus and maintaining a lower weight a "maintenance success" and not a "weight loss failure" ... sometimes it's impossible for us to get our bodies to get down to the weight that we "think" we "should be" ... but at even 75% or 50% or even 25% of goal, we see HUGE health benefits. so always try to maintain your "weight loss ground" and not get caught in one of those bad negative feedback loops where we gain all the weight (that we just lost) back in what seems like a flash (but is usually similar in timeframe to the time it took for you to lose it).

I personally have been one of these yo-yo dieters for the past 20+ years, where my weight is going either straight up or straight down (and hardly ever sideways, for any length of time). And I finally "saw the light" this year, that there are tremendous benefits to even having partial success and losing some of the weight that we want -- so even a partial success is a great thing IF we a committed and motivated/dedicated to keep it off (which sometimes can be harder than losing it in the first place).

So even with me still 70+ pounds overweight (not even 1/2 way to my goal), I am seeing HUGE health benefits:

- My blood pressure is 105/60 (it was 140/85 early this summer)
- My A1C is 5.5 (it was 10.0 in 2008)
- My blood sugar range is 90-120 (it was 120-180 early this summer)
- My cholesterol is in the 100's (it was 240 earlier this year)
- I have no back pain at all ... zero ... nada ... actually I dont have ANY PAIN, ANYWHERE!
- My feet don't hurt, even when I wear high heels
- I have no lung congestion (no fluid in the lungs) after I eat (this can be an early sign of congestive heart failure)
- I have no foot and/or ankle swelling and I lost 1/2 a shoe size (foot swelling can also be an early sign of congestive heart failure)
- I have a waistline (an hourglass figure) and look 100x better
- I dont take any prescription pills other than thyroxin for low thyroid (a condition i've had since 1990)

So even if all weight loss stopped for me tomorrow ... if I can just maintain this weightloss that I have achieved over the past 3+ months ... and stay at the level I am now ... it's a medical success. It's really important to change the way we all think about ourselves and our dieting and health.

Just remember this mantra after you make some headway into your weight loss ... weightloss plateaus are a "maintenance success" and not a "weight loss failure". That was a really important mind change (for me at least). I used to get so depressed during long weightloss plateaus and they often were the catalyst for me to end my dieting effort and were typically followed by me gaining all the weight back and more. I can remember so clearly thinking (in my dieting past) after a long 3 or 4 week weightloss plateau: "I am killing myself dieting, and I am not making any headway, what's the point" -- and I would just quit. Faulty thinking!! As I was at least healthier at that lower weight -- I should have been thinking about the whole thing differently.

The other thing is steamed frozen organic broccoli florets and lean chicken/turkey are my new BFFs (best friends forever)! This is NOT JUST A TEMPORARY DIET that I am on now, but the start of a new way of eating for the rest of my life.
thanks all so true and very inspiring to read!

canadjineh
04-23-2014, 12:54 PM
I haven't phased into maintenance yet, but tend to agree with those who said if you go back to what you did prior to IP you'll be back to square one. Might be better to accept that this is a lifestyle change. They got us this far, so I am gonna trust the maintenance process.

Interesting dialogue here. I may be wrong but I have not found maintenance to be particularly low fat. In other words, I certainly indulge in fats at bfast everyday and lunch or dinner but do watch when combining...hence usually only bfasts. I have found that when I mix is when I have a problem.

EXACTLY my point... maintenance is not a weight loss phase - Phase 1 is different from maintenance and yes some days I have higher fat than others, but I always split those two kinds of meals except at breakfast.

There is very little research on a low carb/low fat lifestyle. But one would have to be cautious to follow a ketogenic eating style that is also low fat for a significant amount of time. I think it is not healthy. Eating Atkins seems to be the better solution for most people, though one would have to check lipid levels regularly. I also do not think that carbs are a problem. But just look at the foods you listed as bad carbs. They are not bad carbs, they are largely junk food or plain sugar in the disguise of a cookie or frosting. Italian lifestyle is full of carbs, yet it is still a healthy way of eating. This is because Italians have a different attitude to food. They cook their meals and they eat relatively small portions. They do not go to a takeout or a supermarket and load up on oversized synthetic meals. Ready-made meals are loaded with stuff that is addictive.

Yes, to the first bolded statement - this is only a weight loss phase, not a maintenance phase so it is only temporary. And to the second bolded statement - I too am Italian, and yes it's the processed crap combo of higher carbs and fats in the SAME foods/meals that cause problems along with unrealistic portion sizes. BTW there are a lot of overweight Italians too... ;)
just fyi cookies & frosting are not plain sugar - butter or lard is used heavily in both.

:D Liana

bravome
04-23-2014, 12:57 PM
You really need to get rid of your big clothes. In your mind you will be able to justify gaining the weight back. I got rid of everything. I did gain back 20 lbs and now I only have one pair of pants that fit, cause they are stretch. I'll be damned if I'm going to buy new clothes. I'm back on the plan and the doing the Christmas challenge. The only good thing is I'm not working right now so I can live in yoga pants till I get there. :) I will get there, it's not an option.

I am currently in the one pair of pants club myself and not buying clothes too! I am determined to get back to my best and when I am I can buy clothes again, because it's nearly summer and clothes get much funner! Today, a cold keeps me to protein and vitamins from fruit, but no exercise. I have been horrible with white bread lately. Someone mentioned crack addiction carbs earlier. So true.
But back to one pair of pants... I agree. Can't let yourself have a reason.

wildirishrose
04-23-2014, 01:56 PM
EXACTLY my point... maintenance is not a weight loss phase - Phase 1 is different from maintenance and yes some days I have higher fat than others, but I always split those two kinds of meals except at breakfast.



Yes, to the first bolded statement - this is only a weight loss phase, not a maintenance phase so it is only temporary. And to the second bolded statement - I too am Italian, and yes it's the processed crap combo of higher carbs and fats in the SAME foods/meals that cause problems along with unrealistic portion sizes. BTW there are a lot of overweight Italians too... ;)
just fyi cookies & frosting are not plain sugar - butter or lard is used heavily in both.

:D Liana

Ok, so can you give me an example of how you eat? I hate to ask to much, but like for a week what do your meals look like?

canadjineh
04-23-2014, 02:22 PM
Ok, so can you give me an example of how you eat? I hate to ask to much, but like for a week what do your meals look like?

Hi wildirishrose: I post my daily plans from MFP on "Maintainers P4 What Are You Eating Today." Hope some of it helps - but remember that we are all unique so you may need to be a little more strict (or who knows, less) than I am about calories from fats or carbs. My coach suggested that I concentrate on the separation of the two kinds of meals and not worry about the calories. So far, so good.

What works the best for me is as suggested in the P4 info sheets: Divide your proteins through the day, Dump the calories from refined white starchy foods in favor of low GI foods, Keep reading and understanding food labels, Keep measuring/weighing portions and journaling your food, Step on the scale weekly and nip small gains in the bud, Hold yourself accountable by checking in monthly with your coach, a friend, or your pals on 3FC.

Liana:chef: