Ideal Protein Diet - Cheese/ketosis and IP vs Atkins (John are you out there?)




slow2lose
10-22-2013, 10:36 AM
I'm always thinking and questioning, and this has been on my mind since I did IP last year. Just looking for the facts.

So we all know cheese is not allowed on IP. I watched an IP video yesterday about dairy and it said it was because the lactose in dairy products can interfere with ketosis.

But my understanding is that hard cheeses don't have lactose AND Atkins allows cheese, right? And Atkins does put you into ketosis, right?

So if cheese does not affect ketosis, I wonder why it isn't allowed? Of course it's high in fat and calories, but if it was limited to one ounce per day (with a reduction in the amount of lean protein), would that really affect weight loss and ketosis?

Just curious about the facts.


earthecho
10-22-2013, 11:35 AM
From personal experience, not all cheese is equal. I don't monitor ketosis, but I've found that very sharp cheddar will suppress appetite far better than mozzarella or swiss.

I'm surprised to hear that cheese isn't allowed on IP. It's usually a good choice for low carbers. I suppose lactose is a form a sugar and could affect some people. Kind of mysterious!!!

You could always find out what's true for you by monitoring your ketosis state while eating cheese or by keeping track of how how long different cheeses keep you from being hungry (calories being equal). 300 cals of mozzarella = 2 hours; 300 cals of sharp cheddar = 3.5 hours, etc.

Bella73123
10-22-2013, 11:41 AM
I'm always thinking and questioning, and this has been on my mind since I did IP last year. Just looking for the facts.

So we all know cheese is not allowed on IP. I watched an IP video yesterday about dairy and it said it was because the lactose in dairy products can interfere with ketosis.

But my understanding is that hard cheeses don't have lactose AND Atkins allows cheese, right? And Atkins does put you into ketosis, right?

So if cheese does not affect ketosis, I wonder why it isn't allowed? Of course it's high in fat and calories, but if it was limited to one ounce per day (with a reduction in the amount of lean protein), would that really affect weight loss and ketosis?

Just curious about the facts.

As far as I understand cheese does not interfere with ketosis, providing you keep your carbs in the 40-50 range. Some coaches do allow substituting cheese for your daily milk allowance. I have found that eating a piece of hard cheese triggers hunger and cravings. I believe this is at least part of the reason they don't allow it. Every time I have gotten off track with IP it started with adding cheese.


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saskgirl
10-22-2013, 01:18 PM
Cheese is why I am here...
Course I made it a food group...

nolasmurf
10-22-2013, 01:29 PM
Cheese is why I am here...
Course I made it a food group...

Yup me too! . Sweetie brought home a chunk of smoked cheddar from the deli last night. He was snacking on it and I sliced a tiny sliver (less than 1/2 an oz) and ate it. I immediately walked away and told him to put it in the beer fridge in the man cave. I know I could easily have eaten half the block. Thankfully I didn't have dairy yesterday in my coffee and I don't think that tiny bit had any affect on me.

wantanewme
10-22-2013, 01:41 PM
Cheese is why I am here...
Course I made it a food group...

I love this! Add me to the club. In craving goat cheese and Brie big time right now .

Lolo70
10-22-2013, 02:01 PM
Cheese when it is aged has very low lactose content since most has been fermented. Greek yogurt is the same, at least when allowed to ferment overnight. As it is strained, it is also lower in whey.

I also do not understand why IP does not allow it, particularly as there are also low fat cheeses that have low carb content. I wish IP would put the cards on the table and give a reason. I have looked for any scientific basis, but lactose content sure is not it. The easiest way to determine would be to compare losses during periods of isocaloric 100% IP eating vs IP with the addition of some cheese.

slow2lose
10-22-2013, 02:13 PM
Cheese when it is aged has very low lactose content since most has been fermented. Greek yogurt is the same, at least when allowed to ferment overnight. As it is strained, it is also lower in whey.

I also do not understand why IP does not allow it, particularly as there are also low fat cheeses that have low carb content. I wish IP would put the cards on the table and give a reason. I have looked for any scientific basis, but lactose content sure is not it. The easiest way to determine would be to compare losses during periods of isocaloric 100% IP eating vs IP with the addition of some cheese.

Well I've kind of done that. And my losses were no different. I worked with my Coach on it and she is aware of my cheese consumption - no more than one measured ounce per day.

I hate lean protein and have always had difficulty getting it down (I actually gag sometimes - probably due to the fact that I have been vegetarian at points in my life).

I was getting no more than around 2-3 ounces per day so I did start to add in an ounce of cheese per day since my protein levels were so low. I lost 4 pounds last week (first week back) and one pound this week (I only have 4 to lose so expect that to be my weekly loss now). I also check my ketones 2-3 times a week and it's always in the medium to high level.

Lolo70
10-22-2013, 04:08 PM
Well I've kind of done that. And my losses were no different. I worked with my Coach on it and she is aware of my cheese consumption - no more than one measured ounce per day.

I hate lean protein and have always had difficulty getting it down (I actually gag sometimes - probably due to the fact that I have been vegetarian at points in my life).

I was getting no more than around 2-3 ounces per day so I did start to add in an ounce of cheese per day since my protein levels were so low. I lost 4 pounds last week (first week back) and one pound this week (I only have 4 to lose so expect that to be my weekly loss now). I also check my ketones 2-3 times a week and it's always in the medium to high level.

So that's it then. Maybe IP is not fully aware of what fermentation is. Or maybe they want to keep it simple as there are a lot of different yogurts and cheeses out there.

lisa32989
10-22-2013, 04:44 PM
I think IP is very well aware of what a problem cheese can be for many of us. As many of the commenters pointed out, it is hard for many of us to portion control because it is SO.DOGGONE.GOOD.

My guess is that some of their rules are based on the science of ketosis and others are based on human behavior.

This is the reason I've followed the IP rules so closely, although I'm a former Atkins girl and know in my heart of hearts that cheese won't knock me out of ketosis. However, too much of any food will. And I'm a "too much cheese girl" from way back!

slow2lose
10-22-2013, 04:44 PM
So that's it then. Maybe IP is not fully aware of what fermentation is. Or maybe they want to keep it simple as there are a lot of different yogurts and cheeses out there.

Yeah my guess is that they are afraid if they allow one ounce people may go nuts and have more. If you have an extra ounce or two of chicken or pork it's not going to kill you whereas a half block of cheese might derail your efforts pretty bad. I am good at sticking to limits and weighed out my one ounce of cheese but I can see where that has the potential to go awry.

Ferk
10-22-2013, 05:09 PM
Mmmmmmm, cheese.

slow2lose
10-22-2013, 05:20 PM
I think IP is very well aware of what a problem cheese can be for many of us. As many of the commenters pointed out, it is hard for many of us to portion control because it is SO.DOGGONE.GOOD.

My guess is that some of their rules are based on the science of ketosis and others are based on human behavior.

This is the reason I've followed the IP rules so closely, although I'm a former Atkins girl and know in my heart of hearts that cheese won't knock me out of ketosis. However, too much of any food will. And I'm a "too much cheese girl" from way back!

I hear you totally Lisa. My only (OK not only LOL) problem is that I dislike meat so much, and was only eating 2-3 ounces a day. I really REALLY tried the "suck it up" mentality and tried to choke it down, but my gag reflex would kick in and it would be pretty gross. I've never ever managed to acquire a taste for plain meat. So for me the one ounce of cheese was a life saver, and thankfully my Coach let me work it into the plan. I've been working with her over a year now, and she knows how hard I've tried to do the meat thing. Sadly I don't like tofu either. I do like eggs though and ground beef so I have been using those two options.

My Coach actually told me today that IP is looking into (like next year) coming out with entire meal replacements (kind of like Lean Cuisine-ish, but I don't think they are frozen), that you can heat up and have as a meal. That might work for me, but I think it's a way off yet.

dak1lls
10-22-2013, 05:51 PM
I love cheese and when I first started IP I think it is the food I missed the most. One problem with cheese is that I get the big C. I wonder, since this can be a problem on IP, if it is one reason they don't allow it? Hmmm....perhaps it is a simple matter of saying "no dairy" and not allowing loopholes that would lead to adding more and more things back in? I would find any loophole possible if it meant I could add wedding cake to my protocol. :cheese::hungry:

leasie
10-23-2013, 10:41 AM
I thought the problem with cheese is the fat content. Being in ketosis, they want you to burn your fat storage. If you are adding more fat, then you are burning less of your stored fat. If you are doing a low carb lifestyle, then it wouldn't matter. However, if you are trying to actually lose weight, you don't want to add more fat to have to burn before your body can burn the fat that is stored...