General chatter - A poop transplant for weightloss??




GlamourGirl827
09-06-2013, 05:11 PM
Interesting...would you do it?

http://www.nbcnews.com/health/human-germs-make-mice-fat-8C11086340


GlamourGirl827
09-06-2013, 05:12 PM
I probably should have put this in general chatter, mods can you move it? thank you!

kaplods
09-06-2013, 07:12 PM
Would I do it? Only if it were affordable and proven safe and effective.

From the article it sounds like the bacterial flora eventually changed on it's own and that diet was still key. So a poop transplant would be effective only with diet change, but that diet change also would eventually work on it's own.

At best, it sounds like the poop transplant would give you a small boost or head start.

Knowing how expensive new obesity treatments tend to be, I think it would make more sense to be patient and let diet do the work for you.

But if it turns out to be safe, and you have money to burn, any "edge" or assistance (providing it's safe) - hey why not?

I do think it will be a decade or more we know enough about the technique for me to consider it personally. Hopefully by that time, I won't have any need to consider it, because I'll be at my goal weight.


MauiKai
09-06-2013, 07:29 PM
Well, they already know it's safe, in that it's been done for some time to cure C.Diff and a few other intestinal issues. Effective for weight loss? That I don't know. Would I do it? No.way. Unless it were necessary for some reason, I could not have someone else's poop near me, let alone implanted. Barf.

kaplods
09-06-2013, 10:01 PM
Well, they already know it's safe, in that it's been done for some time to cure C.Diff and a few other intestinal issues. Effective for weight loss? That I don't know. Would I do it? No.way. Unless it were necessary for some reason, I could not have someone else's poop near me, let alone implanted. Barf.


Actually, safe is relative. There are known risks, which is why it would need to be heavily regulated as the article author points out.

I'm saying if it was FDA approved and administered by my (conservative) physician - maybe.

Now administered by a revolving door health spa, allegedly being overseen by a doctor I haven't met? No way.


Botox and silicone injections are relatively safe when properly administered, but both doctors and nonprofessionals often violate the safety protocols.

As for the "gross" factor, we're exposed to poop every day, we just don't know it or think about it. You probably have eaten more poop this past week or touched more poop today than the amount that is used for transplantation purposes.

Also, the probiotics necessary sounds like they'll eventually be able to cultured without using poop as a medium at all.

Knowing what I know about the microbes in our environment and what they can do, contact with poop from a health-screened donor ranks pretty low on the heeby-jeeby scale for me.

SweetScrumptious
09-06-2013, 10:42 PM
"Fat" germs? Now I've heard everything :dizzy:

MauiKai
09-07-2013, 07:20 AM
Actually, safe is relative. There are known risks, which is why it would need to be heavily regulated as the article author points out.

I'm saying if it was FDA approved and administered by my (conservative) physician - maybe.

Now administered by a revolving door health spa, allegedly being overseen by a doctor I haven't met? No way.


Botox and silicone injections are relatively safe when properly administered, but both doctors and nonprofessionals often violate the safety protocols.

As for the "gross" factor, we're exposed to poop every day, we just don't know it or think about it. You probably have eaten more poop this past week or touched more poop today than the amount that is used for transplantation purposes.

Also, the probiotics necessary sounds like they'll eventually be able to cultured without using poop as a medium at all.

Knowing what I know about the microbes in our environment and what they can do, contact with poop from a health-screened donor ranks pretty low on the heeby-jeeby scale for me.

I work in sewage treatment, so I'm clearly not bothered by poop. I've probably eaten WAY more poop than the average person, and I can guarantee that I've worn way more poop than the average person. That doesn't mean that I'm ok having someone's poo injected into my colon. Not just for weightloss. I'm ok with diet/exercise vs that option, personally. To each their own! But I think it's fairly well acknowledged by most patients that medically safe isn't the same as "safe" safe.

Emma4545
09-07-2013, 09:38 AM
Actually, I have seen some evidence linking poor gut flora to clogged arteries and other medical conditions. So it isn't just for weight loss. But I wouldn't do it at the moment. I think just like with anything... nature is best. We don't know the long term effects yet.

time2lose
09-07-2013, 11:51 AM
Yesterday I was reading something similar to this on the Refuse to Regain blog. The topic was actually about a maintenance plan of one day on diet and one day off diet. Her point was that while this will work for some, it will not work for most. One of the reasons she gain is about the bacteria in our gut.

From the blog
There are many reasons why on and off eating plans don't work for long term maintenance, but I would suggest that one of them may be that we never give our microbiome a chance to remodel. Such a biological turn-around may be crucial for cementing a new weight.

The URL is http://www.refusetoregain.com/2013/09/the-day-on-day-off-diet-a-poor-choice.html (http://www.refusetoregain.com/2013/09/the-day-on-day-off-diet-a-poor-choice.html) if you want to read it.

kaplods
09-07-2013, 02:56 PM
I work in sewage treatment, so I'm clearly not bothered by poop. I've probably eaten WAY more poop than the average person, and I can guarantee that I've worn way more poop than the average person. That doesn't mean that I'm ok having someone's poo injected into my colon. Not just for weightloss. I'm ok with diet/exercise vs that option, personally. To each their own! But I think it's fairly well acknowledged by most patients that medically safe isn't the same as "safe" safe.


Individual's comfort zones are interesting. I'd be far more comfortable having poop from a single medically screened donor (especially if I could choose a thin relative as donor) injected into my colon than stand within ten feet of the poop of countless strangers.

From the article, it sounds like the "thin bacteria" could eventually be cultured without poop and presented in a probiotic tablet form.

Definitely that would be more appealing, but not just aesthetically. I don't see "poop transplants" as being cost-effective (done safely).

Knowing how desperate people can become for any advantage, I wouldn't be surprised if "poop sharing" parties didn't crop up. People are already injecting silicone and botulism from non-medical sources at cosmetic surgery parties.

I'd definitely rather have a doctor inject medical-grade poop into my colon than go to a party where an untrained person injects silicone caulk from Menards into my face or body.

And yet I understand the desperation that leads people to do these things and more. I've been struggling with morbid obesity since early childhood. Diet and exercise will always be the core of my efforts, but if medically safe treatments become available, I'm open to the assistance.

I'd consider xenical/orlistat if it were cheaper and more importantly if I didn't already have IBS.

I considered wls, but consider the generic and my personal specific risks too high.

If I could have spared myself four decades of intense struggle, or any part of it, I would definitely consider it.

I am not willing to be a guinea pig, though. I'm not interested in receiving any treatment without a proven track record of a decade or more. I rather doubt that any such treatments will become available during my lifetime ( at least on my budget/medical coverage).

MauiKai
09-07-2013, 03:06 PM
Individual's comfort zones are interesting. I'd be far more comfortable having poop from a single medically screened donor (especially if I could choose a thin relative as donor) injected into my colon than stand within ten feet of the poop of countless strangers.


Knowing how desperate people can become for any advantage, I wouldn't be surprised if "poop sharing" parties didn't crop up.

As a job, it doesn't bother me. No one makes deliberate effort to come in contact with the sewage, but it happens occasionally. Up side? Really strong immune system after the first year of work in Treatment. Having poop injected into my colon, blurgh...I can't even think of that.

Poop sharing parties just brought a whole new level of horror to this whole thing.

kaplods
09-07-2013, 03:50 PM
As a job, it doesn't bother me. No one makes deliberate effort to come in contact with the sewage, but it happens occasionally. Up side? Really strong immune system after the first year of work in Treatment. Having poop injected into my colon, blurgh...I can't even think of that.

Poop sharing parties just brought a whole new level of horror to this whole thing.

I think your "upside" of a strong immune system may literally pave the way for poop transplants to become more common, or at least sanitized versions (either a tablet that can be swallowed or some other way of implanting the right bacteria).

Immune dysfunction is on the rise, in part due to our oversanitized lifestyle. I suspect people will feel more comfortable with an injection or tablet (especially if it's given a name that doesn't reflect it's poopy origins) than to voluntarily eat, breathe, touch, and wear more bacteria.

If you had asked me 10-12 years ago, I probably would have had a very different opinion on poop transplants, but then I experienced a health crisis and was eventually diagnosed with a potentially fatal autoimmune disease (on top of an assortment of other health issues). I spent several years of testing and treatment, and as a result pretty much lost every shred of modesty and a good portion of my squeamishness.

I'm not saying I'd volunteer for a poop transplant without a damned good reason, but if my doctor could convince me that such a treatment would significantly improve my health or quality of life, I'll consider it.

I've become very pragmatic though, in that I'm more persuaded by science than squeamishness in most cases. I'd be more interested in the actual medical risks than the "ickiness" factor.

Twelve years ago I wouldn't have said that, but it's amazing what a few years of chronic illness and incessant medical testing and treatment can do for your perception.

MauiKai
09-07-2013, 04:39 PM
Being chronically ill myself I get what you're saying. As I said further up post, I would not do this for weight loss. Other health reasons, perhaps, if it were the way to go.

MauiKai
09-07-2013, 04:40 PM
On another note, I just got a super weird mental image of a fat person walking up to a skinny person and saying "Hello, do I have a proposition for you..."

kaplods
09-07-2013, 05:11 PM
Being chronically ill myself I get what you're saying. As I said further up post, I would not do this for weight loss. Other health reasons, perhaps, if it were the way to go.

I suppose it's a matter of perspective. I also wouldn't consider it, if I had "only" 30 or even 100 lbs to lose. But at my highest weight, I was more than 250 lbs overweight and had been trying to lose weight and mostly failing since kindergarten. I was also in catastrophic health failure, and essentially house bound.

I began researching wls, but found the risks unacceptable. I was left trying to dig myself out of a very deep well with a teaspoon.

If a poop transplant would allow me to trade that teaspoon for a shovel (or even a tablespoon), I would have to consider it seriously.

I used to be VERY opposed to low-carb diets. When my doctor recommended I try low-carb, I was skeptical and surprised (he was the first doctor I'd ever had who supported the idea). Turns out, only low-carb controls my hunger to the point that weight loss. I sure wish I'd discovered this as a teenager rather than after 30 plus years of high carb habits. Ironically, I was eating "healthfully" but fruit and whole grains still fed the insatiable hunger.

If a poop transplant at age 5 or 9 or 14 or 21 would have prevented me from becoming 250 lbs overweight, chronically ill, and disabled, it would have been ickiness well spent.

I've certainly done riskier things (with my doctor's support) out of desperation.

In 8th grade, at 13 or 14, my pediatrician prescribed amphetamine-type diet pills (I weighed 225 lbs, and lost 70).

In the scheme of things, a poop transplant would have been far safer. Certainly, if it does prove effective, I hope it would be used before stimulant diet pills and wls.

I firmly believe in the least restrictive, least invasive treatment that is effective.

kaplods
09-07-2013, 05:29 PM
On another note, I just got a super weird mental image of a fat person walking up to a skinny person and saying "Hello, do I have a proposition for you..."

LOL! I once met a guy on an online whose intro email was very promising until halfway into the letter, he admits his poop and fart fetish and goes into great detail describing his fetish fantasies and his hope that I might be willing to fulfill them.

In comparison to THAT experience, asking a stranger for a poop sample almost seems mundane.

What was funny about THAT experience was that I was both extremely disturbed and yet deeply grateful that he chose to disclose such information (and in such great detail) in his intro email rather than hiding it until after a relationship had developed - and yet I can't wrap my head around the willingness to share at first contact. Wouldn't you think a person would wait to spring something like that on a prospective partner?

If poop treatments become common (even without proof of effectiveness), I'm betting some idiots will opt for a DIY at-home version. Which opens the door on so many possible body fluid transmitted disease outbreaks.

Weird conversations with strangers may be a drop in the proverbial bucket.

mandypandy2246
09-08-2013, 08:54 PM
I didn't read the original posted article, but I have researched this a bit.

In animal models, they can take the poop of a mouse that got bariatric surgery, give it to an obese mouse without the surgery and virtually reverse insuling resistance and obesity!

The studies with humans haven't been quite as promising but there are a couple of clinical trials (in Finland I think) going on right now.

For certain bowel conditions, fecal transplants can be life changing.
I think sometday we will better understand the microbiome and be able to help obesity but we just aren't there yet.

Also, for those freaked out by the ick factor - google RePOOPulate. It is sort of like a non-poop fecal transplant (currently for C. Differcile). It is pretty cool. Eventually something like that may help with obesity. But seriously, I would totally get a transplant of someone's poop (assuming it had been tested for diseases) if it could cure an issue and/or prevent taking a lot of meds (as some people with Crohns and Ulcerirtive colitis claims happens after a transplant from a healthy donor).

But for now, I wouldn't do a fecal transplant for weight loss - I think the research has a long way to go! (though I hear DIY fecal transplants are becoming a thing! eeek!).

TurboMammoth
09-09-2013, 12:47 PM
I studied gut physiology as a master degree and one thing I got from there was that we know sooo little of the gut flora.. why does it changes? does the food affect it? does it affect the good? what about bacterie resistance?

We know a bit, but I have the feeling that it is only the tip of the iceberg... With all the bacteries resistance going on these days, I wouldn't mess with my gut flora (yet!).

mandypandy2246
09-09-2013, 05:41 PM
Totally agree! I think understanding the microbiome is the next frontier of medicine for treating a lot of diseases ... but we are a long way off of undersanding it!