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RavenWolf
09-03-2013, 08:31 PM
now the owner wants it back. I asked her multiple times if she was sure she wanted to rehome him and she said yes. She handed over his crate, dog bowls, food, treat, vet records, toys and him to me.

We picked him up at 1pm and he has already fit in perfectly with our family. He's already my little shadow, following me every where and laying by my feet. He even rode in the car to pick up my kids.

She also told me that her family is never home so he got NO attention. I stay at home all day and so she was excited he would have someone with him all the time and another dog to play with.

I really like him.

I don't want to give him back now. I gave her several chances to change her mind. My kids are just nuts over him.

Thoughts? Advice?


bargoo
09-03-2013, 08:38 PM
That is a dilemma that I was once in. The problem in that case is there were heartbroken children in the former home, so we did give her back. In your case the situation is different and I would want to know why they wanted to return the dog to a lonely home..

RavenWolf
09-03-2013, 08:44 PM
She said her husband now promises to try and make time for him. This is the second time they gave him away. The first home gave him back due to "allergy" reasons after 3 days.


Sasha29
09-03-2013, 09:16 PM
Don't give him back. Most likely, the dog will end up just as ignored as before - or worse. The third time will not be the charm. You obviously love the dog, and it sounds like he is loving the attention that his new family provides. Tell the former owner that your kids would be heartbroken.

I would start taking steps to create a paper trail that proves you are now the owner of the dog. Call the vet ASAP and have them change the owner records to reflect your name and address. Also, if your county requires a license, get the dog licensed ASAP. If the owner persists and tries to claim the dog was stolen, you need as much paperwork as possible in your name to prove ownership. Print out and keep a copy of the Craigslist ad and any email communications. If you paid them any money for the dog or signed any paperwork, keep that as well.

Sadly, I've been down this road. People are nuts.

EagleRiverDee
09-03-2013, 09:19 PM
Hopefully you kept copies of communication, but even if it was all verbal you did what was required of you - write down a record of what was said and when. Keep the dog. It sounds like that person is wishy-washy and the dog is far better off with you. I would decline to return the dog and point out that you had an agreement. Any further communication from the owner after that could constitute harassment. Make sure you keep copies of voicemails, emails, notes, etc. Take the dog to the vet for an initial check up- if the checkup reveals any signs of neglect or abuse that would further bolster your case but just taking the dog to the vet would support that you have every intent of keeping and caring for the dog.

RavenWolf
09-03-2013, 09:35 PM
Thank you! I've been literally sick to my stomach about this. My kids love him, I love him and he fits in just right. He's laying at my feet right now, happy and content. I kept the emails and the text messages. She did already delete the craigslist ad.

Thank you!

RavenWolf
09-03-2013, 09:43 PM
OMG she is threatening to get law enforcement involved!!! WTH? I don't know what to do. :( I'm so sad.

EagleRiverDee
09-03-2013, 09:48 PM
OMG she is threatening to get law enforcement involved!!! WTH? I don't know what to do. :( I'm so sad.

Let the cops come, explain the situation. The owner has given the dog away twice now. You have proof that you had an agreement.

I would tell her flat out: "We had an agreement, and I have copies of all the communications. Call the police and send them by, and I'll be glad to show them." My guess is she's bluffing. Even if she isn't, you have possession of the dog and proof that she made an agreement to give the dog to you. I would think that would be good enough for the police.

And I would tell her that if she contacts you again, you'll file harassment charges against her.

I hope this works out. As a fellow pet lover, I know I would just be in emotional knots over this.

If she doesn't know where you live, DON'T TELL HER. She has your contact information, obviously. If she asks for your address to give to the cops, tell her they can contact you themselves. This lady sounds nuts, and I would not want her to know where I lived.

Tuscany
09-03-2013, 09:57 PM
Totally agree with the advice provided by EagleRiverDee...couldn't have said it better. I wish you luck.

melissakd
09-03-2013, 09:58 PM
OH my... what an awful situation. At first I was torn until I got to the part that this was the SECOND time they gave the dog away

DO NOT GIVE THE DOG BACK.

Don't feel bad about keeping the dog... he deserves a loving family.

So sorry you're going through this.

RavenWolf
09-03-2013, 10:51 PM
I contacted the police as did she. She and I were both told separately by the same officer that it is a civil matter and she has the right to take me to court over it.

I asked the officer what he would do and he said he would give him back because even though she probably wouldn't win him back, I would have to go through the hassle of court.

To top that off, there is a worry that her family may be crazy and could find out where I live I'm sure. This is a very small town and our kids go to the same school although they do not know each other.

I also worry that if I were to return him and all of his stuff she gave with him she may say he came back in poor health or that I didn't return something and stole something. I'm at a loss.

ILoveVegetables
09-03-2013, 10:52 PM
I agree with the posts above. If they've admitted that they didn't make time for him before and have actually given him away in the past, there's nothing that says it'll change. Saying that her husband 'will try and make time for him' means nothing. If her husband is at work all day, he's not going to magically come home early for the dog anytime soon.

Good luck.

EagleRiverDee
09-03-2013, 11:03 PM
Well, you have to do what you have to do. I think it's a shame that the dog is caught in this. If the woman gave the dog away because the husband neglected it, it's unrealistic to think that will change long term. Sure, he may pay more attention to the dog temporarily, but not permanently. The dog would definitely be better off with you. Were it me, I would tell them to have their lawyer contact me. And see if they follow through. But I'm stubborn that way, and don't have small children.

My two cents for the future:
-Always, always capture an exact copy of an ad from Craigslist. Use screenshot or snipping tool, then save the captured photo into a word doc and file it.
-Take a short contract over that specifies they are giving up all rights to the animal and make them sign it. I imagine there are samples out there, rescue groups certainly use a waiver like that and you could use one of theirs for a template.

carebearx3
09-03-2013, 11:13 PM
I would call Animal Control and tell them everything. They want whats best for the dog so they will intervene and convince the woman that she cant keep giving the dog away. Your local Animal Shelter may be able to weigh in, too. Good luck!

pnkrckpixikat
09-03-2013, 11:30 PM
I hope you keep the dog, it is obviously in a better situation with your family. the police should keep records of their talks with you and the lady so if they threaten you or try anything there is history of conflict on file allowing quicker assistance

kaplods
09-04-2013, 12:15 AM
This is a tough case, but because you have kids that could be harmed if the woman is mentally ill, I would probably give the dog back, if and only if there were no physical signs of neglect (if the dog was underweight, matted, or had bad teeth, I'd turn the dog over to the humane society and ask an investigation be opened. At the very least, the woman would have to pay a fine to get her dog back and if she did not claim the dog, you would probably be given first chance to adopt.

If you paid her any money at all, demand that she refunds the money in cash. This could be a scam to steal money from you. She keeps your cash or cashes your check and then gives you a bad check in return. Or when you meet to return the dog, she may have another change of heart and try to extort more money from you.

This sounds very fishy. I wouldn't be surprised if the allergy story is a lie. It sounds more like she's a drama junkie and may have done this before - perhaps even more than once. She may get some sick thrill out of traumatizing strangers.

crispin
09-04-2013, 01:20 AM
I wouldn't give the dog back b/c of the possibility that she could hurt you in some way. If she does strike out in some way, that would be harassment and you could press charges.

Most likely, she's a brat who expects to always get her way. She's threatening legal action b/c most people fold. She'd have no chance of winning a case if she filed one, so long as you have copies of your communication with her, and that communication doesn't make it sound like you had an agreement that she could change her mind. It's been a long time since I took Contracts, but I'm certain she has no chance. Perhaps a practicing lawyer or more recent law student could chime in.

Do you have a nearby law school you could contact? This is such a clear case, you may be able to get the dean to hook you up with some pro bono coverage. I'd also contact your local spca; they may know lawyers who would help for free.

lazylioness
09-04-2013, 01:28 AM
Call your attorney, see what he or she recommends.

I say keep the dog and tell this chick to bring it, but i am a ***** like that lol

doingmybest
09-04-2013, 02:04 AM
I agree. Talk to your attorney. I hope you keep the dog.

kaplods
09-04-2013, 02:18 AM
The scary part is that she could hurt you or your family whether or not you give the dog back.

I didn't realize it until this post inspired me to google, but there are all sorts of pet scams on craigslist. People steal dogs and claim to find them to get a reward from the owner, or they just sell them to someone else. The latter is apparently called "dog flipping." Others see a lost pet ad and call the owner claiming to have foundthe pet, but demand money for alleged vet bills or travel expenses before they turn over the animal (that they never had in the first place).

After reading this thread and doing the google search, I'm really glad we've always chosen to get our pets through professionally run shelters.

Scary.

Alyj89
09-04-2013, 04:33 AM
This honestly sounds like some sort of scam to me. There are so many on Craigslist and they can be very elaborate ! I would not at all be surprised if you have the dog back and were then stuck with some sort of vet bills she said you caused or something of that nature. It really sounds like a scam to me.

Have you called the previous vet to make sure the records are real? Asked if they know how many times the dog has changed owners?
Was there ever anything at all in your communications that suggested she could take the dog back if she changed her mind ? DOES she know where you live?

At this point I would not give the dog back. I would go to the police station (not call), and bring records of all of your communications. It's a shame the Craigslist was deleted before you saved it however nothing is deleted forever. I am sure there is a way for you or the police to recover that ad should it come to that. Here is one sight with a quick Google that may work:
http://www.harmari.com/2012/08/find-old-craigslist-ads-or-ebay-auction-pages-within-browser/

There are many more "how to recover deleted Craigslist ad" articles. Spend a bit looking around and see if anything works for you. If it does bring that with you to the police station as well. Tell the police that she keeps contacting you, and you feel threatened, request a restraining order. Tell them you are worried it was a scam that isn't working out for her and now fear for you & your children's safety.

MauiKai
09-04-2013, 08:12 AM
If it were me in that situation, I would take it to court then, if thats what she wants. I couldn't doom that dog to a life with that family.

Desiderata
09-04-2013, 11:46 AM
Wow, Aly, I had no idea pet scams were so common. Enlightening.

My brain spun off a different crazy "what if?" interpretation of the situation, RavenWolf. Assuming it's not a scam (and that seems more likely if any money changed hands), what if this woman gave away the dog in a moment of spite to get back at her husband, and now she feels remorseful/he's quite angry, etc? Maybe it was "his" dog and she wanted to hurt him.

Could make up a million and one scenarios, of course, and I'm not sure how helpful that is. Have you heard anything further?

doingmybest
09-04-2013, 12:48 PM
I'm with MauiKai on this.

Try not to be intimidated when someone involves the police or threatens legal action. You can do the same thing. There are a lot of people who use this as a strategy to intimidate or scam others.

Depending on your local and state laws, you may have a valid and enforceable oral contract. Again, talk to your attorney or legal aid rep. You have contract law and the best interests of the dog on your side.

This matter could be handled in small claims court. You could represent yourself which will save on attorney's fees and if you win the case, you can recover your court costs.

Good luck! I know this is hard. :hug:

kaplods
09-04-2013, 01:09 PM
Hmm, I do wonder if Desiderata's guess isn't closer to the truth.

I wonder what would happen if you told her you'd be happy to give the dog back - but only with witnesses present either at the police station or the humane society.

I'd be inclined to go to the Humane Society and have a chat with the director and an investigator (investigators may be police, animal control officers, an/or humane society staff). Tell them of your suspicion that the dog is stolen or that this is some kind of scam.

I'd ask them if there is a police officer assigned to the humane society or who they'd think might be particularly sympathetic.

If so, I'd then go to the police again (ideally asking to speak with the officer the Humane Society recommended if there is one).

I would tell the officer that you suspect some kind of scam and that the dog might be stolen, and that you don't feel safe meeting with this person and would like an officer present, ideally at the humane society.

If you don't want to go through all that, I'd surrender the dog and its stuff the humane society, giving them all the pertinent information and fill out an application to adopt the dog if the owner(s) do not claim the dog. Then contact the "owner" and tell them you surrendered the dog to the humane society and they can pick the dog and it's belongings there.

I would not accept any "refund" in this case (if you paid anything) because the money is "proof" that the dog was yours to surrender. Keep copies of all the paperwork you received from the "owner." She can't say you stole the dog without having to explain how you got the dog's medical records. The burden of proof is on her.

I know this means a whole lot of extra expense, but it will be cheaper (in time and money) than going to court. If you do want to adopt the dog, I would make sure that humane society is willing and able to keep the adoption confidential.

I know it doesn't feel right surrendering the dog, but the Humane society or ASPCA really is the safest place to get or give up an animal. Anyone can use Craigslist, and an animal can get passed around, neglected and abused. The hoops the humane society makes adopters and sometimes surrenderers go through are there to protect the animals and the people.

EagleRiverDee
09-04-2013, 01:29 PM
Desiderata's theory that this may have been the husband's dog occurred to me, but I don't think so. I think you would have heard from him directly if that were the case. I know if I came home and found my dog had been given away in my absence I would address it myself. I think it's far more likely this is a scam.

Kaplods idea sounds pretty solid to me if you want to give the dog back. It gives you a neutral third party and a safe place to deal with. Make absolutely certain that you inform the Humane Society that you want the dog if the former owner doesn't come to claim it. Because legally you are the owner, this may be considered an "owner release" and that can trigger a short countdown to euthanasia so you need to be certain they understand that this is because of a dispute in ownership.

I still think you have the legal rights to this dog. And yes, you can get Craigslist to give you a copy of that ad if you deal with their legal requirements. Or if you can find a cached copy somewhere on the net. But with your email communications, you probably have enough even without that. Especially if you paid money for the dog. Legally, the exchange of currency makes that dog your property.

RavenWolf
09-04-2013, 01:45 PM
We ended up giving the dog back with a typed letter she signed stating the dog was returned in the same condition we were given him in. With my current health issues I can not handle the emotional stress that going to court and dealing with her harassing texts and calls was/would cause. Getting emotional causes me to black out and it is not a good scenario.

The letter also stated all communication between us was to stop immediately. They dog was in very good health, properly fed, and clean. I had no reason to believe there was any mistreatment. He was a happy well adjusted dog.

I also could not risk them coming to my home or starting trouble at the kids schools.

It's a sucky situation but I washed my hands of it and I will eventually get over it. I am scouting the local shelters and rescues for a suitable companion, and although adopting from there is generally safe, I am feeling the sting of this situation and am not wanting to get my heart broken again.

There are some very cute pit bull pups and I may wind up adopting one of those. I am in search of a new running/hiking partner and I know that he/she would be able to keep up with my activity level and would benefit from it.

I'm just still to sad and upset to go commit to anything else.

MrsKevin
09-04-2013, 02:12 PM
What a heartbreaking story to read... poor pup won't know who their owners will be if they give away on a whim :(

EagleRiverDee
09-04-2013, 02:14 PM
I'm just still to sad and upset to go commit to anything else.

Understandable. I'm sorry about what happened.

EofAZ
09-04-2013, 03:05 PM
The silver lining is if you adopt a pit bull pup you are probably saving it's life. Pit bulls have a very low likelihood of being adopted if they are turned into a shelter. I had one "dropped" (actually two but one followed some other people home while they were walking their dogs) near my house and he attached himself to our house. He probably heard the pugs in the backyard and decided he could be safe there. I did NOT want a pit and did everything I could think of to get rid of him but with no takers and everything I read indicated that he had almost zero chance of serviving if I didn't find him or give him a home. One article I read said if I left him in the backyard and gave him food and water and that was all I did he was better off than 97% of pits, so soft hearted me kept the stupid thing. What a great dog he has turned into, it has been just a year. He was an older pup when he was dropped in the neighborhood and he is a big boy now. He is so smart and I haven't even had to hardly work on training him. I basically let him know what I expect and he will just do it to please me. Lately we have been practicing his manners about racing out the door. We let the pugs go first and then we walk out calmly so he doesn't knock them over. We practiced about 3 days on this and he doesn't even try to rush out the door now. My only complaint is he likes to sit on my feet and he has a boney butt.

I was so mad at those people for dropping him, I already had several dogs and sure didn't need another one but I really love the goofy thing and everyone who visits just can't get over how great a personality he has.

I too wanted a walking partner and he is developing into a good one. The pugs get tired and I have to carry them back to the house. LOL

JohnP
09-04-2013, 03:13 PM
Personally I think giving the dog back was very smart.

Clearly this person is not stable and you have no idea what you're dealing with.

lanabug
09-04-2013, 03:45 PM
This thread breaks my heart, but I'm glad you've found your way out of the situation. Hopefully you find a shelter dog to adopt soon that's just as wonderful! :hug:

fadedbluejeans
09-04-2013, 03:58 PM
I'm sorry you have to go through this and I hope you find a new furry companion soon, but I agree with John P - you made a smart decision.

RavenWolf
09-04-2013, 05:31 PM
Thanks. I believe I did the best thing for the safety and well being of my family. I will be adopting at some point. Not sure when, but it will be a pit pup.

I have a soft spot for pit bulls anyway.

ShyHeather
09-04-2013, 06:03 PM
Goodness, never deal with craiglist when adopting. That's what I am taking away from this, that and the woman is mentally unstable. The poor dog is losing in this situation.

I'd suggest to local animal control / shelters to keep an eye out for her to post the dog again. If that happens, then hopefully they'll move in for the adoption and she will lose.

PatLib
09-04-2013, 06:39 PM
Call the cops/animal control first. She just blackmailed you, don't threaten her back or anything. Just call them and explain the situation and have them go to her.

Alyj89
09-04-2013, 08:15 PM
I'm so happy to hear you will be adopting a pit bull puppy :) I rescued a full grown pit from very neglectful and abusive neighbors after they abandoned her. She came to my dad carrying a puppy in her mouth, starving, unable to feed her pups. Dad gave her food & the puppy, and that evening she had brought all 6 of her puppies to the back door for help. It was heartbreaking and we kept her. She has been the best thing that's happened to me, had her about 4 years now. Extremely sweet, goofy, well-behaved and loving. Any dog can be like that of course, but pit bulls have such a horrible reputation, it kills me.

seabiscuit
09-04-2013, 08:16 PM
Oh this is sad, this thread breaks my heart too. I knew someone who became involved in a lot of drama because she took in a cat who was neglected, the cat's owners weren't taking care of him so she reluctantly gave the cat back. It's always so shockingly sad to me how horrible some people are with animals, like this lady who placed the ad. My heart goes out to you, gentle hugs and I am sure when the time is right you will find a loving furry companion.

Take care. :hug:

kaplods
09-04-2013, 08:49 PM
Call the cops/animal control first. She just blackmailed you, don't threaten her back or anything. Just call them and explain the situation and have them go to her.

Threatening to pursue civil litigation does not constitute blackmail. Unless she demanded more money, or made specific threats to harm persons or property, there's been no crime.

JohnP
09-04-2013, 09:05 PM
I find it amazing how many people think it's a good idea to have any involvement with this other person.

People can be bat poop crazy and if you can avoid confrontation with someone who appears to be unstable it's always the best option.

crispin
09-04-2013, 09:10 PM
Ravenwolf, I totally understand you choosing to escape the crazy. :hug:

Monkeysmom
09-04-2013, 09:35 PM
I don't know this woman but I hate her. What a horrible position to be put in for you:( Whatever dog you rescue will be lucky indeed.

RavenWolf
09-05-2013, 01:02 PM
Thanks, everyone. I feel I did the best thing for my family but not for the dog. Next time she "places him" it could be with someone who has a bad intent, and the dog will be injured or killed and she won't get him back. It's an awful game she is playing and his life hangs in the balance.

The letter we had her sign also stated that all communication was to stop and I haven't heard anything from her so I'm happy. I will not be looking at craigslist ever again for fear I will see him relisted and I will just lose it!

Pit bulls are one of my fave breeds. My very best friend is my pit bull, Liberty, who I rescued from a park where I found her half dead. She has been with me 8 years and is close to 12 years old and really slowing down and graying. I can no longer take her on my walks/jogs because she just can't keep up. I told her she isn't allowed to die until I go...hahahaha! She has to live forever!

They have a horrible reputation but can be awesome dogs. In fact, even as a dog trainer, I have never come across and aggressive pit bull, but I did come across a lab and a shih Tzu that wanted to kill me!

Craigslist is dangerous. I'm leaving that alone.

mandypandy2246
09-05-2013, 05:06 PM
What did the ad say? I would probably watch craigslist to see if the dog gets put up again in an ad, and if so, I'd call a local humane society or animal shelter and explain and see if they'd want to deal with it (in fact, perhaps offer to donate the adoption fee if they haven't to acquire the pet and allow you to adopt). Then the lady would neverk now it was you who adopted the dog and would only have the shelter to deal with.

PatLib
09-05-2013, 08:34 PM
"Blackmail is an act, often a crime, involving unjustified threats to make a gain or cause loss to another unless a demand is met. It may be defined as coercion involving threats of physical harm, threat of criminal prosecution, or threats for the purposes of taking the person's money or property."

The dog is currently her properly and she is threatening her.

Obviously this is not a situation extreme enough to warrant an arrest or have charges filed but it is threat. I don't know what state she is in but blackmail charge varies wildly in each state and often can rely on case law rather than statutory laws.

Anyways, the previous owner sound like a nut case and the authorities (Animal Control or whoever) should be called even if she wants to give the dog back and be present at the exchange.

joyc21
09-05-2013, 09:21 PM
My first thought when reading this was that her children and/or husband were upset when they came home and found that the dog was gone so she had a change of heart.I suppose I could be wrong and maybe she is crazy or scam artist. But it is possible that she just had a change of heart. Either way it's good that you're out of the situation now.

kaplods
09-05-2013, 11:20 PM
"Blackmail is an act, often a crime, involving unjustified threats to make a gain or cause loss to another unless a demand is met. It may be defined as coercion involving threats of physical harm, threat of criminal prosecution, or threats for the purposes of taking the person's money or property."

The dog is currently her properly and she is threatening her.

Obviously this is not a situation extreme enough to warrant an arrest or have charges filed but it is threat. I don't know what state she is in but blackmail charge varies wildly in each state and often can rely on case law rather than statutory laws.

Anyways, the previous owner sound like a nut case and the authorities (Animal Control or whoever) should be called even if she wants to give the dog back and be present at the exchange.

I worked in law enforcement for 8 years, and I stand by my post.

Animal Control would have no jurisdiction whatsoever. The humane society might only if there were signs of neglect or abuse (but not over any "blackmail," and as for the police, as already stated, they were already called, and op was told no crime had been committed and that the previous owner could indeed legally take op to court - probably wouldn't win, but could do it.

For a threat to legally be considered criminal or actionable, it must be a threat of actual physical, financial, or reputational harm to the op (threatening to do legal things will not be considered blackmail in any jurisdiction I ever had contact with). There was no threat made as far as op mentioned. Threatening to sue in this case is not sufficent as no "harm" in the legal sense was threatened. Even in the unlikely event she won a civil action, there would be no legal harm tp op. Rather she would simply have to give the dog back, nullifying the original contract. In which case the op would also get back any money she had paid for the dog (therefore no harm under the law).

Feel free to call your local authorities and ask them what if anything they could or would be able to do in such a situation. I predict the'll say "nothing" or at best record that you called (in other words... nothing).

PreciousMissy
09-06-2013, 07:28 PM
Goodness, never deal with craiglist when adopting. That's what I am taking away from this, ...

Oh goodness, no! Please don't feel that way about getting a dog off Craig's List! I'll admit, there are a lot of nutty people and scammers in this world, and I feel absolutely horrible about what happened to Ravenwolf. I wish she hadn't had to go through that.

But there are still a lot of honest, sane people who really need to rehome their family pets and don't want to take a chance taking them to the shelter for the fear that they may never get adopted and be euthanized. They also want to meet the prospective "parents" to make sure that their dog isn't going to be used for breeding or fighting.

Ravenwolf's story truly breaks my heart, but I am a Craig's List success story, and I know of many others. My dog was on Craig's List because the existing dog didn't like her, but they didn't want to take her back to the shelter.

Ravenwolf, I am so sorry for the thread hijacking and hope you find a new furry friend for your family.

kaplods
09-06-2013, 09:48 PM
I disagree. More pets are stolen, abused and neglected as a result of craig's list and other free forums than are euthanized by shelters.

Painless euthanasia is not the worst thing that can happen to a pet, yet people give pets to strangers or worse dump them, leaving them to die slowly and painfully of starvation, illness, injury, poisoning or predation by wild or feral animals.

You cannot guarantee that someone you met on Craig's List, will be (or was) a responsible pet owner. They may seem sweet and responsible for the 10-20 minutes you speak with them, but they may sell your dog to a laboratory, or to a pet store, or neglect or abuse the pet when they lose interest. The dog you find on Craig's list may be someone else's stolen pet, "Oh, but surely that sweet lady couldn't be a criminal" - don't bet on it.

Shelters get a bad reputation that is largely undeserved. In very large cities, euthanasia rates can be high - but even there, the risks on Craig's List are even higher and more dire
Better a peaceful death, being petted by a caring shelter worker than a life of neglect chained on a 3" leash or being passed from owner to owner, possibly beaten or ignored.

Many of the dogs shelters have to euthanise are animals that are a danger to humans, themselves, and other animals because they've been neglected and abused, passed from owner to owner to owner by people who fear euthanasia for their rehomed pet, but not illness, injyry, starvation, abuse, or neglect.

Do not get a pet from Craig's List. It may be stolen, sick, or aggressive. Do not give a pet up through Craig's List, do the responsible thing and take the pet to a shelter or rescue that screens potential adopters. If the shelter is a "no kill" shelter, find out what they do with ill and unadoptable animals. Some just leave them to suffer in their cages until they die in misery. Others just drop them off at humane societies and force those volunteers to do the painful work.

If you don't have the time to screen applicants carefully (not just "oh, they seem nice. They must be ok") do your pet a favor and take it to a shelter. Or kill it yourself, it will be a more merciful thing to do than handing it over to a stranger who might be a responsible pet owner, or could just as likely be your pet's worst nightmare.

If you refuse to use a shelter, at least go through a veterinarian's office or a paid newspaper ad, and charge SOMETHING for your pet (people are more likely to abuse, neglect, and rehome a free animal than one they paid for).

Likewise if you're looking for a pet, be suspicious of any avenue that is free or dirt cheap for the person selling or giving away the animal. Most shelters and rescues ask or demand a surrendering fee. Even newspaper ads charge a nominal fee. People who traffic in stolen animals seek out free, and dirt-cheap forums for doing so.

The humane society ensures both. Animals are held for a period of time to allow owners to find lost and stolen pets. No profit is given to thieves, abusers and neglecters, and potential adopters are screened - not only to reduce the risks of abuse and neglect, but also to reduce the risk of rehoming either because the animal adoption wasn't well thought out, or because the pet is a poor fit for a home (they won't give a mastiff to a person living in an efficiency apartment).

At the very least, a shelter is going to determine, if you rent, that you're allowed to have the pet you want to adopt.

Tour your local shelter and ask about euthanasia practices. In the two I volunteered at in IL and WI, they hadn't had to euthanize healthy dogs in years. Cats were occasionally a different matter, but even then most of the euthanized animals were ill or feral and a peaceful death wasn't the worst thing those animals suffered.

So to be safe, go through a shelter to give or get a pet. It's safest for the people and the pets involved. Steer clear of Craig's List and any other forum in which the risk is high that the pet you want might be stolen, ill, or traumatized or when giving up a pet that the risk for neglect, abuse, or repeated rehoming is high.

Craig's List and other unscreened adoptions just are not worth the risk.

Sheridan
09-09-2013, 03:17 AM
HI,

Do you know the laws in your state that cover this situation? The library reference department may be able to give you the citations which may help or hurt your case but at least you would have guidlines. How long did she wait to ask for the dog back?

I take it there was NO money paid to her.If there was it might help you.

To me this is a tricky situation. Once I was in the process of adopting two dogs from the local shelter. Well the man and woman had a fight and she dumped the dogs.The man then wanted the younger dog back but did not care about the older dog so I knew he was not an ideal owner. Legally I had the right to both dogs.

After much thinking ,I let the man have the dog he chose because quite frankly I had concerns that he might hurt my family in some way. He did not know my address but I am sure he could have found it.

You only had the dogs a few hours so you can't be totally bonded. I know it hurts but think about possible aggressive acts this woman might do. Your welfare and that of you children has to be considered.

Remember that if this goes to court, she will know exactly where you live.Personally I would not be comfortable with this.

There is probably a lot more to this considering that this is the second time she gave it away.

I wish you luck in this most difficult decision.I know you are a good pet parent and probably the best for this dog. Remember though that there are lots of dogs needing good care and love. Maybe there are others that you could love that are waiting just for you.

I do agree with the post that said check to see if the dog has been abused.If that is the case then that would be an entirely different matter and I would not give the dog back.Dog abuse is a police matter.

Many dogs of working parents are alone much of the day so that in itself is not ab
It sounds to me that this woman is unstable and that would be a red flag to me.

Good luck,
Sheridan

Vex
09-10-2013, 12:20 AM
Not to derail too much but...

Painless euthanasia is not the worst thing that can happen to a pet, yet people give pets to strangers or worse dump them, leaving them to die slowly and painfully of starvation, illness, injury, poisoning or predation by wild or feral animals.

I 100% agree with this statement.
You'd think death would be the worst thing that can happen to you, but it's not.


It's sad though for the original poster. My heart goes out to you.

PreciousMissy
09-10-2013, 04:36 PM
I disagree. More pets are stolen, abused and neglected as a result of craig's list and other free forums than are euthanized by shelters.

Painless euthanasia is not the worst thing that can happen to a pet, yet people give pets to strangers or worse dump them, leaving them to die slowly and painfully of starvation, illness, injury, poisoning or predation by wild or feral animals.

You cannot guarantee that someone you met on Craig's List, will be (or was) a responsible pet owner. They may seem sweet and responsible for the 10-20 minutes you speak with them, but they may sell your dog to a laboratory, or to a pet store, or neglect or abuse the pet when they lose interest. The dog you find on Craig's list may be someone else's stolen pet, "Oh, but surely that sweet lady couldn't be a criminal" - don't bet on it.

Shelters get a bad reputation that is largely undeserved. In very large cities, euthanasia rates can be high - but even there, the risks on Craig's List are even higher and more dire
Better a peaceful death, being petted by a caring shelter worker than a life of neglect chained on a 3" leash or being passed from owner to owner, possibly beaten or ignored.

Many of the dogs shelters have to euthanise are animals that are a danger to humans, themselves, and other animals because they've been neglected and abused, passed from owner to owner to owner by people who fear euthanasia for their rehomed pet, but not illness, injyry, starvation, abuse, or neglect.

Do not get a pet from Craig's List. It may be stolen, sick, or aggressive. Do not give a pet up through Craig's List, do the responsible thing and take the pet to a shelter or rescue that screens potential adopters. If the shelter is a "no kill" shelter, find out what they do with ill and unadoptable animals. Some just leave them to suffer in their cages until they die in misery. Others just drop them off at humane societies and force those volunteers to do the painful work.

If you don't have the time to screen applicants carefully (not just "oh, they seem nice. They must be ok") do your pet a favor and take it to a shelter. Or kill it yourself, it will be a more merciful thing to do than handing it over to a stranger who might be a responsible pet owner, or could just as likely be your pet's worst nightmare.

If you refuse to use a shelter, at least go through a veterinarian's office or a paid newspaper ad, and charge SOMETHING for your pet (people are more likely to abuse, neglect, and rehome a free animal than one they paid for).

Likewise if you're looking for a pet, be suspicious of any avenue that is free or dirt cheap for the person selling or giving away the animal. Most shelters and rescues ask or demand a surrendering fee. Even newspaper ads charge a nominal fee. People who traffic in stolen animals seek out free, and dirt-cheap forums for doing so.

The humane society ensures both. Animals are held for a period of time to allow owners to find lost and stolen pets. No profit is given to thieves, abusers and neglecters, and potential adopters are screened - not only to reduce the risks of abuse and neglect, but also to reduce the risk of rehoming either because the animal adoption wasn't well thought out, or because the pet is a poor fit for a home (they won't give a mastiff to a person living in an efficiency apartment).

At the very least, a shelter is going to determine, if you rent, that you're allowed to have the pet you want to adopt.

Tour your local shelter and ask about euthanasia practices. In the two I volunteered at in IL and WI, they hadn't had to euthanize healthy dogs in years. Cats were occasionally a different matter, but even then most of the euthanized animals were ill or feral and a peaceful death wasn't the worst thing those animals suffered.

So to be safe, go through a shelter to give or get a pet. It's safest for the people and the pets involved. Steer clear of Craig's List and any other forum in which the risk is high that the pet you want might be stolen, ill, or traumatized or when giving up a pet that the risk for neglect, abuse, or repeated rehoming is high.

Craig's List and other unscreened adoptions just are not worth the risk.

kaplods, I always enjoy reading your posts. They are always so informative, and I stand corrected. You're right, euthanization isn't the worst thing that can happen to an animal. I pictured that as the end for my dog, not thinking about the horrible things that could have happened had I not adopted her.

I guess I am just a one in a million responsible pet owner who in did take my dog to the shelter to have her scanned to make sure that she wasn't reported stolen or lost. Had she been, it would have warmed my heart to get her back to her original owner, I can't imagine my life without her now.

I'm not saying that shelters are horrible places that should be avoided, I've also adopted pets from there in the past. I was just trying to point out that there have been a happy endings from Craig's List.

My apologies for having offended you, when that was in no way my intention.

kaplods
09-10-2013, 06:45 PM
kaplods, I always enjoy reading your posts. They are always so informative, and I stand corrected. You're right, euthanization isn't the worst thing that can happen to an animal. I pictured that as the end for my dog, not thinking about the horrible things that could have happened had I not adopted her.

I guess I am just a one in a million responsible pet owner who in did take my dog to the shelter to have her scanned to make sure that she wasn't reported stolen or lost. Had she been, it would have warmed my heart to get her back to her original owner, I can't imagine my life without her now.

I'm not saying that shelters are horrible places that should be avoided, I've also adopted pets from there in the past. I was just trying to point out that there have been a happy endings from Craig's List.

My apologies for having offended you, when that was in no way my intention.



I wasn't offended, I just felt obligated to explain why shelters are generally the better of very bad options. I'm willing to bet that most Craig's List pet exchanges have a happy or at leatst not terrible ending, but no one knows the exact odds. If the animal is a sought after breed and the price seems too good to be true, chances are higher that it's stolen or a puppy mill puppy or ex-breeder, which may have psychological damage that may not be immediately evident.

There are two main reasons people avoid shelters, and they both work against the animals' best interest. 1. People vilify shelters and shelter animals (stigmatizing the animals as untrained, and unadoptable) and assuming (without checking) a high euthanasia rate and 2. Shelters aren't easy and quick, making it more difficult to pick up or drop off an animal on impulse. You need to fill out paperwork, there may be delays, there are expenses involved...

Most pet exchanges occur with less than 15 minutes of interaction between the adopter and the dog provider. It's just not enough.

I've had friends who gave their dogs to perfect strangers because the dog was a breed that the shelter would euthanize (they believed). They were wtong, and didn't bother to check.


Our local humane society does rehome pitbulls, even if they have behavioral problems. They'll just only release those with aggression issues to experienced dog owners without small children.

About 1/3 of the dogs in the shelter are pits, pit-mixes, or breeds that are often confused with pits - boxers, bulldogs, and mastiffs (including rottie and Newfie mixes), and a good number have been bounced around from home to home because the people were so afraid of euthanasia that the didn't take the time to think about the dog's best interest.

A close friend tried to convince us to take a sweet pit mix that had been rehomed six or seven times. She took the dog only because she didn't want it to go to a shelter and be killed, but learned she couldn't handle the dog. We couldn't take the dog, because we had a dog-phobic cat. I told her that the shelter in our area had a great record for re-homing guard dog breeds, including pits and they would make sure the dog got a good home.

Then it came out that the dog had heartworms, an expensive medical condition (that most of the previous owners had hidden or minimized when passing the dog to the next owner).

Sadly, the friend found some new sucker to take the dog and promised to take the dog to vet when he could afford it (which probably means never).

The shelters deal with this all the time. People turning in their animals without disclosing health problems, fearing the animal will be euthanized, only prolonging the animal's suffering and preventing treatment and making permanent rehoming difficult.

Another common problem with private adoptions is people presenting old animals as much younger than they really are. The shelters see it all the time, but the vet exam prevents the lie from being passed on to the new owner. They think it helps the animal, but it only increases the odds of it being passed along and being cared for improperly.

I've just seen so much of the negative consequences of people bypassing the shelters. It's just so sad.

RavenWolf
09-10-2013, 07:43 PM
I did head out to the shelter today with the kids and was told that all the pit bull adults and puppies had been adopted. I also was interested in a shih Tzu/doxie mix named Lilly and she was still available.

We spent some time playing with her and decided to bring her home. I am content now and have no worries that anyone will try to take her from me.

We look forward to getting to know her and bond with her. She went with us for a nice walk and is now hanging out in the living room with us.

Thank you for everyone's responses. I had a wonderful experience with our shelter and have offered to volunteer to take photos for their adoptable pets.

Shannon1976
09-10-2013, 07:56 PM
Congratulations on your new addition! I'm sure you both will be very happy! Shelter dogs are the best dogs! My chiweenie came from a shelter and he is my best little buddy!

belovedspirit
09-12-2013, 01:47 PM
I did head out to the shelter today with the kids and was told that all the pit bull adults and puppies had been adopted. I also was interested in a shih Tzu/doxie mix named Lilly and she was still available.

We spent some time playing with her and decided to bring her home. I am content now and have no worries that anyone will try to take her from me.

We look forward to getting to know her and bond with her. She went with us for a nice walk and is now hanging out in the living room with us.

Thank you for everyone's responses. I had a wonderful experience with our shelter and have offered to volunteer to take photos for their adoptable pets.

That's wonderful! Congratulations on adopting Lilly! :)

kaplods
09-12-2013, 02:35 PM
I bet she's adorable. My mom has a black morkie (maltese/yorkie) named Lilly, but her body is so long, I wonder if she doesn't have some long-bodied breed in the mix.

If it weren't for our health/disability situations and our cat's attention demands and hatred and fear of all other critters, we would adopt another pet.