100 lb. Club - What does one do?? confused with ever changing claims!!




hamlette
09-01-2013, 02:03 PM
I'm just confused right now. While searching for some info i came across an article by Zoe Harcombe in which she says that fruit is actually fuelling the obesity epidemic. Furthermore, she says that fruit is not as nutritious as we've always been told it is. I'm pasting the link to her article:

http://www.zoeharcombe.com/the-knowledge/fruit-is-fuelling-the-obesity-epidemic/

Ever since i've started my weight loss journey, i've added fruit to my diet. i don't eat "5 a day" but i do eat at least one piece of fruit. the thing is, i don't know who or what to trust any more. is fruit bad for health? or is it good? :?: what should one follow or do? There are so many conflicting claims and studies out there. Sighhhhhhh


Lyn2007
09-01-2013, 02:23 PM
Fruit is very nutritious. Yes, it is high in natural sugars but unless you are eating a ton of fruit I don't think that matters. A piece of fruit or two a day is, IMO, beneficial. It is certainly better than a candy bar or cookie or whatever we used to eat! There are some low carb plans that skip fruit for awhile, to keep carb levels down, and that is fine too. But if you are not counting carbs I think a piece of fruit a day is fine.

fitbyforty
09-01-2013, 02:42 PM
Pretty sure that none of us are here because we ate too much fruit.


kaplods
09-01-2013, 02:46 PM
No food is bad or good except within the context of everything else you're eating. One piece of fruit a day will not prevent you from losing weight. Eating nothing but fruit or eating large amounts, especially on top of other sugary or starchy foods? Now, that can become a problem.

The problem with fruit arises when someone thinks fruit is so healthy that they can eat unlimited amounts without consequences, especially when fruit replaces all or most leafy greens and other lower calorie vegetables.


Every research study or bit of nutritional science is only one small piece in a humongous puzzle (and there may even be several puzzles for different lifestyles or genetics). No single piece should guide your behavior, especially since that piece may not fit into your personal puzzle.

The information is confusing and conflicting, because you're trying to make sense of the individual puzzle pieces and not seeing how the bigger puzzle or how some of the pieces may fit together.

Doing so is not an easy endeavor because the scientific community doesn't have all the pieces yet. Each conflicting theory is based on different set of puzzle pieces. They all may fit into one humongous puzzle, or several different puzzles. There may be not just several different possible healthy ways to eat depending on lifestyle and genetic factors, there may even be several different healthy ways of eating for each person.

Read some of the books by authors who have strong science medicine backgrounds, especially in nutritional science and then try a diet they recommend and keep notes about your weight and how you feel. After several months, try another. Compare your notes. Which met your goals better? Try another. Eventually, you'll find the puzzle that fits your body and personality best.

For myself, the three books that led me to my best fitting puzzle (so far) are The End of Overeating by David Kessler, Refuse to Regain by Barbara Berkely, and Good Calories, Bad Calories by Gary Taubes (his book Why We Get Fat and What to Do About It, is supposed to be a less technical book that people without a strong science background may find more enjoyable).

kaplods
09-01-2013, 03:06 PM
Pretty sure that none of us are here because we ate too much fruit.

I am. I got fat easily and stayed fat even more easily on foods that people generally say no one ever got fat eating, including fruit. Any calories you can eat in excess of what you need can make you fat, regardless of where those calories come from. I once ate an entire large watermelon in addition to other "very healthy" food. I don't know my calorie intake for that day, but 1300 came from the watermelon.

Some fruit is easier to eat to excess than others, and as a rule tend to be less nutritious and 3-10 times higher in calorie than most veggies. We tend to think of "fruits and vegetables" rather than "vegetables and fruit" because very few people in our culture eat more vegetables than fruit. There are also many more people who eat no vegetables than who eat no fruit.

Fruit is not bad (unless it's all you eat, or your overall diet is otherwise full of sugar and starch, then the fruit may only adding to the calorie fire). Low-calorie vegetables are just usually more nutritious and harder to overeat. Just try to eat 1000 calories of broccoli (only six large apples).

Even vegetables can be "bad" if you're using them to replace other nutrients you need.

Again, you have to look at the big picture, no single piece.

CherryPie99
09-01-2013, 04:18 PM
FWIW I lost 228 pounds eating massive amounts of fruits on a daily basis...

Jen

Amy Remixed
09-01-2013, 04:22 PM
I've heard for years to have your fruits and vegetables but make sure the vegetables outnumber the fruits. I treat fruits like dessert. And I stay away from fruit juices.

Trazey34
09-01-2013, 05:10 PM
Pretty sure that none of us are here because we ate too much fruit.

Best. Reply. EVER.

Daimere
09-01-2013, 06:41 PM
because very few people in our culture eat more vegetables than fruit.
I honestly dislike fruit and will only eat certain types (green banana, sometimes strawberries, sometimes apples). I can tell you how I got fat and it wasn't veggies or fruits.

kaplods
09-01-2013, 07:23 PM
I honestly dislike fruit and will only eat certain types (green banana, sometimes strawberries, sometimes apples). I can tell you how I got fat and it wasn't veggies or fruits.

If you dislike fruit, I can see why you did not get fat on it. I did get fat on fruit and starchy vegetables - white potatoes, sweet potatoes, carrots, squash, legumes, lentils, with some meat and fat.

My absolute favorite and typical meal growing up was veggies like carrots, potatoes, onions, rutabaga, turnip, kohlrabi, parsnips.... roasted or stewed with beef, pork, or chicken and a side salad. The vegetables outnumbered the meat, both in volume and calories on our plates.

I was the only one in my family to have gotten obese as a child on this diet (I'm adopted, so my genetics are different).

Those of us who have gained on a "healthy" diet know how easy it can be. If I had not eaten a great deal of veggies and lower sugar fruits, I imagine my highest weight would have been triple what it was.

Aclai4067
09-01-2013, 10:57 PM
I am 100% certain that fruit is not the reason for my obesity. I do not hesitate to include 2-4 servings a day of it in my weight loss plan. Hasn't hindered me yet.

ETA- As Kaplods mentioned, the place for fruit in your diet and amount acceptable vary by individual and by weight loss plan. I would not say you need to skip fruit completely (except perhaps in the early stages of a low carb plan). But if you're eating a ton of fruit and not losing, maybe replace a few of those servings with a lower calorie veggie.

namaste984
09-01-2013, 11:03 PM
Like most things on the intertubes, take it with a grain of salt. Learn from your own experiences. If fruit makes you gain weight, don't eat it! If it makes you feel great and lose weight, go ahead and eat it. The thing about about a blanket statement like that is that there's always exceptions because all people are different. Find a groove that works for you and get in it! :)

IanG
09-01-2013, 11:05 PM
Fruit can have a lot of sugar and calories in it. At 281lbs I drank a lot of juice!

I stick to raw veggies now and a serving of berries which tend to have less calories among the fruits.

I always add a serving of blueberries to my salad.

Aclai4067
09-01-2013, 11:37 PM
As Dr Robert Lustig says – you wouldn’t dream of giving your child beer or cola

I think this is my favorite line of the article. Nevermind that many parents do in fact give their children cola, but they're seriously equating fruit to giving your child beer?

I understand that fruit has both calories and sugar, which should be considered in one's determination on how much to consume. And I understand the argument that we must be wary of nutrition guidelines set by those who stand to gain from your consumption of their product. But does her article not also read like an agenda? She mentions the importance of animal products multiple times. Many would argue that plant based protein is equal or superior to meat, and that the consumption of dairy is just plain unnatural and unnecessary. And we MUST eat butter on our green vegetables? Because the fat in all the meat she's eating isn't enough to aid absorption of those nutrients?

I'm not saying everything that she's saying is wrong. I eat meat and dairy, and FRUIT, with no intentions of cutting any of those items from my diet. I'm just saying you can make an argument against anything. If someone's argument seems like an extreme view, it probably is.

IanG
09-01-2013, 11:37 PM
Can't get fat on beer.

I am almost 110lbs down and drink beer most days.

Daimere
09-02-2013, 12:02 AM
hose of us who have gained on a "healthy" diet know how easy it can be. If I had not eaten a great deal of veggies and lower sugar fruits, I imagine my highest weight would have been triple what it was.
I wasn't doubting you. I should have added, that is a correct statement of culture cause people think i am weird for my dislike....

hamlette
09-02-2013, 02:47 AM
Thank you for your replies everyone...

i guess the crux of the situation is a bit of what everyone has said. Kaplods is quite right in saying that instead of trying to make sense of the individual pieces, we need to focus on the bigger picture and how things work in relation to each other. Balance and moderation are important and like everyone says, we need to see what works for us. having a piece of fruit everyday(i take mine on an empty stomach) has not at all hindered my weight loss efforts and i'll continue to observe and evaluate how it effects me in the furture.

Aclai4067 i agree with you as far as extreme claims are concerned. Some of her claims are questionable. ive eliminated junk from my diet along with items such as cakes and carbonated drinks. i still have some dairy everyday, im not doing low carb or counting calories. ive just opted for whole foods such as whole grain pastas, breads, i have my eggs along with fruit and raw veggies as snacks, and definitely try to include some lean meat almost everyday. And i eat 3-4 dates every 2nd or 3rd day because it helps with my sugar cravings(which have lessened quite a lot). And ive lost all my weight doing all this without any proper form of exercise(which im not proud of but still trying to incorporate). so i guess ill keep doing what im doing as long as it works for me, and if i hit a wall, i can re-evaluate the situation and make a few changes when the time comes.

Once again, thank you everyone for taking out the time to reply. You all were very helpful!!! :)

LuvMyMr
09-11-2013, 01:02 AM
Pretty sure that none of us are here because we ate too much fruit.

BOOM! There it is! Love this reply!!!!

kaplods
09-11-2013, 01:24 AM
BOOM! There it is! Love this reply!!!!

Except that some of us are here because of overeating fruits, whole grains and/or any of the other foods people say "no one gets fat on."

Just about any food can contribute to obesity (except the really low calorie greens).

Radiojane
09-11-2013, 05:46 PM
Bottom line of what I've learned in the past year: Research will make a lot of us crazy. It really does change from day to day, author to author, cause to cause and dieter to dieter.

Please, listen to YOUR body. I limit fruit, because I seem to have to. 1500 calories of a so called "balanced" diet is not the same as 1500 calories of low carb primal eating. But that's MY body, and it took a long time to figure that out and a lot of trial and error. YOUR body is your own. If you're losing, feel good and enjoy fruit, never mind the article.

Vex
09-13-2013, 09:41 AM
If you're losing, feel good and enjoy fruit, never mind the article

Exactly. If you eat fruit and lose weight, great. If you don't lose weight while eating fruit, don't eat it. I'm one of those people that has to eat it very sparingly.

The same goes with carbs, sugar, etc. etc.

tefrey
09-14-2013, 12:26 PM
If we knew what causes obesity, no one would be obese. Scientists are doing their best but most of their studies at this point are correlative ... meaning that there is a tendency for two things to appear together, but it doesn't indicate the connection or even if there is one. So fruit eaters may be more likely to be obese, or obese people may be more likely to eat fruit. Both things could also be caused by a third effect ... dieters are more likely to be obese and also to eat more fruit. A correlative study can't differentiate between any of those scenarios.

Unfortunately it's almost impossible to do a cause and effect nutrient study on humans. We do them on rats and monkeys all the time, but rarely can they find a group of people capable of eating a limited diet day after day without "cheating." To do a causative study you would need to have a group of people eat the exact same menu every day for a month or a year, it's not going to happen.

And scientists usually do a good job of indicating just how limited their studies are ... it's the media who gets a hold of it and says "this is proof!"
So always take research with a grain of salt.

At the moment my head is spinning from the New York Times article that there has never been a grain a truth to the claim that skipping breakfast causes obesity and that there are even some studies that seem to indicate that breakfast skippers eat fewer calories than breakfast eaters even if they overdo it at lunch. Their conclusion is pretty much that we don't know.

And honestly I don't believe there's a one size fits all solution for everyone. I think some people are going to lose weight on low fat, others on low carbs, some on Atkins, some on Weight Watchers. I'm happy to tell people what works for me, but I know darn right well that it may not work for them.

So fruit, whole fruit, is fine for me so I'll keep it in my diet. If it works for you, then eat it. If it doesn't, then don't.

I will make one final point and that is that I do agree with the author of this article that if parents are substituting fruit for veg that's bad. But I actually don't think that's what they are doing. I actually think it's the juices and other processed foods that say "made with real fruit" even though there might only be a drop or two of juice in the final product. That's the problem, parents giving their kids fruit roll ups when they should be giving them apples.

kaplods
09-14-2013, 02:05 PM
I will make one final point and that is that I do agree with the author of this article that if parents are substituting fruit for veg that's bad. But I actually don't think that's what they are doing. I actually think it's the juices and other processed foods that say "made with real fruit" even though there might only be a drop or two of juice in the final product. That's the problem, parents giving their kids fruit roll ups when they should be giving them apples.


I think both problems exist - health conscious people substituting fruit, fruit juices and starchy vegetables for less calorie dense options AND the bigger problem which is eating very little of any plant food that still resembled it's natural form.

sadly, a large and growing number of people are eating no whole fruits and vegetables at all.

When the FDA came out with the recommendation for 5 servings of fruit and vegetables, the average American was eating 2 (mostly potatoes, mostly fried).

Fruit has replaced vegetables in many cases, but much worse fruit juice is replacing whole fruit. Fries, chips and other fried potatoes without the skin has replaced not only baked and boiled potatoes with the skin, but most other vegetables as well.

Overall, fiber-rich, water-filled, low-calorie, bulky, filling foods are replaced with processed, concentrated, low-fiber versions (or worse foods that have absolutely no resemblance to a growing food).