Weight Loss Support - Does What You Eat Not Matter for Weight Loss?




TheGreatDepression
07-30-2013, 09:29 AM
If I stay within my calorie deficit, does it really not matter what I eat? For example, 1500 cal of fried chicken is the same as 1500 cal of salad? I see a lot of you reduce weight loss down to calories out vs in but how does saturated fat affect your heart health? I remember being taught from childhood that saturated fat from animal sources causes heart disease.


Jacqui_D
07-30-2013, 09:50 AM
It may not matter for weight loss, but it does matter for overall health, as you've pointed out.

Munchy
07-30-2013, 10:24 AM
Another thing is that healthier foods will fill you up because it's so much more food.
http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-Pchf__N4b9U/T9OfgaOhX5I/AAAAAAAAEY8/Ey3v0C1J7ns/s1600/1360+calories.jpg


QuilterInVA
07-30-2013, 10:50 AM
I'm sure you already know the answer to that. Of course it matters what you eat. If you don't eat a nutritious diet, you won't be healthy. Thin and medical problems are not for me.

TheGreatDepression
07-30-2013, 11:30 AM
Well, then why do so many people the "keto" low carb diets that allow you to eat a lot of saturated fat?

snowlilly
07-30-2013, 11:38 AM
It matters for weight loss as well. The way some nutrients interact with eachother after you eat them can aid or stall weight loss, no matter the calories. For example, if you eat bread with fries and meat you will assimilate the fats much faster because of the carb-protein-fats combo. If you eat potatoes (baked/boiled) without combining them with bread or fats, they are more beneficial.
What you eat and in what combinations matters a lot. You won't lose much weight and you'll also feel sick and hungry all the time if you eat your daily calories in fires and burgers and sweets.

And I suppose the answer to your question would be that, that's the best they can do and it's better than nothing. Not many people can cut out bad fats/carbs completely. Limiting them to a certain amount of calories/day is still better than overeating.

It's not healthy and obviously not the best choice, but if it helps stay on plan and control cravings and binging, I suppose it works.

TheGreatDepression
07-30-2013, 11:59 AM
It matters for weight loss as well. The way some nutrients interact with eachother after you eat them can aid or stall weight loss, no matter the calories. For example, if you eat bread with fries and meat you will assimilate the fats much faster because of the carb-protein-fats combo. If you eat potatoes (baked/boiled) without combining them with bread or fats, they are more beneficial.
What you eat and in what combinations matters a lot. You won't lose much weight and you'll also feel sick and hungry all the time if you eat your daily calories in fires and burgers and sweets.

And I suppose the answer to your question would be that, that's the best they can do and it's better than nothing. Not many people can cut out bad fats/carbs completely. Limiting them to a certain amount of calories/day is still better than overeating.

It's not healthy and obviously not the best choice, but if it helps stay on plan and control cravings and binging, I suppose it works.

What evidence is there showing that the combination and ratio of fat, protein and carb can lead to more fat build up? So what's the best combo for least fat build up?

snowlilly
07-30-2013, 12:24 PM
Mainly, as most of the other diets, it's a theory regarding different digestion speeds (which is not proved as to whether it influences weight loss or not, but it is consider to do). Also, it is considered by some that spikes in insulin from sweets can hinder weight loss. This is a more generally approved theory than the first one, but whether it is spot-on or not, it does not really matter, because on a diet it is recommended that you avoid "bad carbs" anyway.

The spikes in insulin occur at the same time/ are caused by spikes in blood glucose (and the inevitable crash in glucose or sugar crash) which increases appetite. That's why eating sweets or bad carbs can lead to overeating and weight gain. This is a generally known fact.

How true the food combining theory is, we can't know, since a ton of theories fly around and the opinions regarding them are divided. I can say that I have lost weight by not combining proteins and carbs and I lost 33 lbs in 3 months by eating whatever amount, whenever I wanted (went to a local dietician that recommended it - I also think that the Montignac diet is based around this principle, but I never followed that diet). But I didn't like the diet and it was a struggle to keep it. I was thinking about what I'm going to eat all the time - it was complicated.

Anyway, I think that if you eat healthy food you will lose weight faster and healthier than if you eat a certain amount of calories of junk food. A treat once in a while is no crime, but it's too easy to overeat bad stuff. I stay away from it altogether and with my current plan, I haven't had a craving in a month.

There's a ton of healthy choices out there. If I focus on eating what I like from the good category, I don't think about the things I used to like almost at all (pizza, hamburgers, fries etc.).

kaplods
07-30-2013, 01:09 PM
Well, then why do so many people the "keto" low carb diets that allow you to eat a lot of saturated fat?

Just because a diet is popular, doesn't make it healthy. Many people lose weight on unhealthy diets - they also may lose their hair, their health or even their life in the process. Others may be lucky and escape without serious or obvious harm. Or they may feel better because their "bad diet" may be healthier than what they were eating before the diet.

As for keto diets specifically, saturated fat may be dangerous only when combined with starchy and sugary carbs. The research on keto diets is still relatively new. There are risks to a keto diet, but so far, research suggests low carb diets aren't as unhealthy as once thought.

Also, what is healthy for one person may be unhealthy for another. I find that strict keto diets make me very ill (and it doesn't get better after a couple weeks as the keto diets promise).

However, I feel great eating lower, but not "too low" carb. I have a wide array of health issues, and the symptoms are fewer and less severe on a lowish carb diet.

My doctor recommended low carb, warning me not to go too low, but admitted I'd have to experiment to find out what was too low.

So for me, low carb is healthy, but I don't eat as much fat (of any kind) as I did on high carb eating, because I'm not as hungry, especially for sugary/fatty/salty foods.

Arctic Mama
07-30-2013, 01:11 PM
Well, then why do so many people the "keto" low carb diets that allow you to eat a lot of saturated fat?

I don't have the time to link extensively - but the short of it is that saturated fats are the most stable source of fat that can be consumed (less rancidity) and have the least metabolic impact of the macronutrient categories. They also signal hormones in the brain and cells of the body that energy is available and cue satiety.

Saturated fat doesn't cause heart disease - that entire premise is fallacious and built upon clear manipulation of data from several studies, the largest of which being the Framingham study (which, for the record, concluded that individuals with the largest sat fat intake had the least cardiac events). Incidentally, much research has been done over the past century, but the last ten years in particular, indicating that a diet composed of saturated and unsaturated fat, combined with controlling carbohydrate, yields statistically and clinically notable improvements across a number of health markers.

I'd highly suggest doing some actual reading on the subject, instead of just making wild eyed claims, which is what your opening salvo amounted to ;). Fat is crucial for health, especially for our nerves and brains, and it cues satiety quickly. A ketogenic diet has a few things that might count against it, especially for an endurance athlete, but long term ketosis or low-carb-but-not-ketotic eating would be a MASSIVE health improvement for a significant portion of the world's population (given their current diets and health trends).

I'd suggest beginning your research with this book and moving on to other resources from there. It would likely be quite eye opening for you:
http://www.amazon.com/Why-We-Get-Fat-ebook/dp/B003WUYOQ6/ref=sr_1_1?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1375200794&sr=1-1

TheSecondHalf
07-30-2013, 01:27 PM
http://www.cnn.com/2010/HEALTH/11/08/twinkie.diet.professor/index.html

If you create a calorie deficit, you will lose weight. You will probably even get healthier.

People become paralyzed with this whole "perfect diet" idea. Don't let confusion and information over load hold you back. If you eat less you will lose weight and if you lose weight, you will be healthier.

Suzanne 3FC
07-30-2013, 02:27 PM
Just because a diet is popular, doesn't make it healthy. Many people lose weight on unhealthy diets - they also may lose their hair, their health or even their life in the process. Others may be lucky and escape without serious or obvious harm. Or they may feel better because their "bad diet" may be healthier than what they were eating before the diet.

I completely agree. I've always been amazed by the number of dieters that only consider quick weight loss as the goal of their diets, instead of their long term health. Healthy diets also lead to weight loss, but provide so much more.

I used to think that it was all about calories in/out and for the most part that is true. It's a bit more complex than that. Also, we're all different and our bodies even change as we age. What works for some may not work for others.

I personally found that eating healthier foods made me feel better, gave me tons of energy which helped me to move more, and kept me from feeling hungry so I stuck with it. (I lost over 100 lbs) I always choose foods based on their nutrient content and I meet or exceed the RDA for every nutrient that the USDA tracks (thanks, USDA supertracker tool :) )

OP, if diet and heart disease are a concern for you, I suggest checking out Prevent and Reverse Heart Disease by Caldwell Esselstyn, M.D. I know people that swear this plan turned their lives around. There's also an interesting documentary online with Dr Sanjay Gupta, Bill Clinton, and Dr. Esselstyn that details the improvements made by this type of diet plan.

nelie
07-30-2013, 02:54 PM
Mainly, as most of the other diets, it's a theory regarding different digestion speeds (which is not proved as to whether it influences weight loss or not, but it is consider to do). Also, it is considered by some that spikes in insulin from sweets can hinder weight loss. This is a more generally approved theory than the first one, but whether it is spot-on or not, it does not really matter, because on a diet it is recommended that you avoid "bad carbs" anyway.

The spikes in insulin occur at the same time/ are caused by spikes in blood glucose (and the inevitable crash in glucose or sugar crash) which increases appetite. That's why eating sweets or bad carbs can lead to overeating and weight gain. This is a generally known fact.


I think you are getting the 2 issues confused. Spikes in insulin can occur by eating high GI foods but this affects different people in different ways. If the highs/lows of insulin cause someone to overeat, then they are eating more calories but I believe the initial question was would you lose weight by eating the same amount of calories of various foods and the answer is yes. We've had people lose weight on this site eating 'bad carbs'.

I am at the point where I am accepting that there aren't bad foods or good foods but there are foods that make me feel optimal and those that make me feel less optimal. I choose foods that make me feel good which generally means a lot of nutrient-rich foods. If something makes me feel crappy, is there a reason to eat it? For me, no.

sacha
07-30-2013, 02:57 PM
Also, you'd be surprised to find that tons of people will eat slabs of bacon and cheese and call it keto/low-carb/Atkins/insert different name here. That doesn't necessarily mean it follows the protocols of what the actual style of eating requires.

Let's take Paleo. People will eat a pound of pork sausage, 5 eggs, and a side of avocado and call it Paleo. Cordain's book would say Paleo is actually a cold leftover chicken breast with fiddleheads and a couple of berries with a handful of nuts........ big difference.

EagleRiverDee
07-30-2013, 02:59 PM
For me, it does matter. I lose weight best if I keep my carb grams under 100 per day. My doctor says that some people are have a metabolic type that is sensitive to carbs, and I'm one of them.

snowlilly
07-30-2013, 03:31 PM
Nelie, I didn't confuse the issues, I just got carried away and deviated a bit from the subject - I went into the "why not to eat everything you want" zone :D

All in all, I think it is safe to say that, yes, you will lose wight if you eat anything you want within a set limit of calories.
But you'll be a lot healthier and feel a lot better if most of your diet is made out of healthier choices, with the unhealthy stuff kept to a minimum.

Buffinlovin
07-30-2013, 03:59 PM
All in all, I think it is safe to say that, yes, you will lose wight if you eat anything you want within a set limit of calories.
But you'll be a lot healthier and feel a lot better if most of your diet is made out of healthier choices, with the unhealthy stuff kept to a minimum.

I agree with this statement.

I'm documenting everything I eat right now, as well as what I feel/how my body reacts in a personal journal to try and figure out what will give me the best effects. Keeping within a particular calorie range will work, but knowing how your own body reacts to certain macro-nutrients (carbs, fats, proteins, etc) may help you lose more (and feel better) in the long run. I'm learning that lower carb is working a lot better for me because when I eat large amounts of carbs my body seems to bloat up, even though they fit in my calorie range.

Every person is different, as you've probably read in this thread as well as others, so what works for me may not work for you. I feel that counting calories is one of the best ways to diet for myself because I really can tailor it to however I want it to work. If I want to go low-carb, I can go low-carb! If I want to go high protein, I can go high protein! The only limit I have in what I choose to eat is the knowledge that certain things affect me differently, and I can make better decisions based on that information (if that makes sense...). It's easier for me to choose healthier choices when I know those choices will reflect positively on the scale.

tricon7
07-30-2013, 05:03 PM
http://www.cnn.com/2010/HEALTH/11/08/twinkie.diet.professor/index.html

If you create a calorie deficit, you will lose weight. You will probably even get healthier.

People become paralyzed with this whole "perfect diet" idea. Don't let confusion and information over load hold you back. If you eat less you will lose weight and if you lose weight, you will be healthier.

I've seen this thought-provoking article before. It reminds me of when my wife (who's significantly overweight) tells me she's eating "X" because it's healthy. Yet she's still gaining weight. There seems to be a disconnect for a lot of people between quality and quantity. Not that I approve of a junk-food diet. But once I was consumed with how much protein/fat/carbs I was eating in order to lose. Now all I track is calories, and perhaps making sure I get a decent amount of protein after working out.

Neodiva
07-30-2013, 05:23 PM
For me, it definitely matters. Even in weight loss, certain foods have a tendency to make you feel bloated and enlarge your stomach while others don't.

diamondgeog
07-30-2013, 05:44 PM
I am just beginning to understand carbs versus fat etc for eating. There was some seriously wrong paradiagm shift around the 1950s that the 'culprit' in a lot of diseases and obesity was too much fat in the American diet. Even though no one can find any study to back that up.

So we switched to a recommendation to have carbs as the basis of the food pyramid. Well I don't do an Atkins and certaintly not to the point of 'keto'. But what protein does is get used. It powers our cells and activity. That is very good.

What carbs do is often increase insulin and the calories don't get used but stored as fat, often around the stomach area. So it is lose-lose. You are eating a lot of calories and still feel hungry because they weren't there for your body to use but they get stored.

So the low-fat stuff turned out to be pretty awful. Why? The fat was being replaced with carbs. From what I can tell a good diet is lean protein, preferably limited red meat, and lots of fruits and veggies. Fruits and veggies will have carbs, sometimes a lot, but these are better carbs than say french fries (potatoes and sadly bananans are not the best to eat).

I am far away from removing carbs but I am trying to limit them. For me at least they were the number one facet for my weight gain: I have classic stomach fat and often after the hamburger with bun and of course fries I was hungry again remarkably soon.

Love the picture above BTW. Thanks.