100 lb. Club - What Drinks "Count" as Water?




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Elladorine
07-04-2013, 02:26 AM
Ok, this seems to be a rather silly question, but I brought in a few "show-and-tell" type items into my weight loss meeting tonight. Two were new liquid calorie-free sweeteners (one sucralose-based and one monk-fruit based), and the third item was a clear flavor enhancer similar to Mio (flavored like strawberry and sweetened with sucralose). All three came in similar bottles where you can squeeze just a little (or a lot) into your water, tea, coffee, etc. Since I avoid added sugar and cannot have aspartame, I'm always on the lookout for beverages that I can have in addition to water. Most diet drinks have aspartame in them, which I have a bad reaction to. :( I occasionally have Diet Hansen's soda, Diet Coke With Splenda, Zevia, (I've yet to try Blue Sky), and the strawberry lemonade from Cafe Rio, but whenever I go out I only order water or occasionally plain tea. Just about every other diet beverage I've encountered contains aspartame so that really limits my options.

To make a long story short, I held up the bottles to show everyone some new alternative sweeteners and beverage ideas, and was immediately shot down. According to one member, the only thing that counts as water is pure water, and any "fun" drinks you enjoy have to be done on top of having your 8 glasses of water per day requirement. I don't really believe in the whole 8 glasses a day thing in the first place; I do my best to stay hydrated but also don't force myself. I also drink mostly water in general; it's very rare for me to have tea, coffee, and especially soda.

I do understand that caffeine is dehydrating and that excess sugar is not healthy, but I fail to understand how adding a just little non-caffeinated, non-sugar, non-carbonated flavor to water somehow negates it as water? Does your body somehow not recognize it as water? :lol: I can't imagine that all of our ancestors even had access to pure water to begin with. And the person so adamant about pointing this out to me? He was drinking a soda from the vending machine. :p So what does count as water? Did he actually have some insight or am I just crazy?

Regardless, I'm not really going to worry about it, as I'm not the soda fiend I used to be. :D


JohnP
07-04-2013, 02:54 AM
I guess I'm not sure I understand the question.

There is certainly benefit to being adequately hydrated and to that regard anything that hydrates "counts".

Many people are foolish, and believe things that are not true.

For example - while I don't consider you foolish at all you apparently believe caffeine is dehydrating. It isn't. It's only a diuretic in that is has a slight increase to one's metabolism.

Of course - should you consume enough caffiene then it becomes, in effect, a diruetic.

Paracelsus - "All things are poisons, for there is nothing without poisonous qualities. It is only the dose which makes a thing poison."

Martine
07-04-2013, 08:17 AM
The "8 glasses of water a day" thing has been debunked by the scientific community. Food also contains water, so to reach 64oz of water daily to keep hydrated, it's not just actual water that will count. And water is water, no matter what you add to it. It's like saying broccoli is not really broccoli if you add butter to it. You still get the nutrients either way, just like you get the benefits of water, whether or not you add flavours to it.


Tuscany
07-04-2013, 08:50 AM
Oh, good grief...If adding Mio (or similar) to water means it doesn't count as water, then I would have died from dehydration long ago. :)

If you were to drink 8 oz of plain water and then squirt a drop of Mio in your mouth and jump up and down a bit, would you say you hadn't drunk water? Of course not. Adding Mio to water doesn't somehow negate the fact that you're drinking water.

I suggest you take the 64 oz of "water" recommendation and read 64 oz of "fluid", which I believe is what the original recommendation was (many years ago), until the bottled water companies came along and changed it.

punkrocksong
07-04-2013, 11:33 AM
I'm weird in that I don't really like drinking plain water...I almost always add crystal light, mio, lemon, or berries to my water to make it tolerable. I figure it's still better than all of the diet soft drinks I was drinking.

amandie
07-04-2013, 11:44 AM
Freelancemomma will chime in and say she does not drink water by itself and she's lost 50 lbs. Kaplods may also chime in and say that's what got her mom so sick because of that belief of 8 glasses of water plus anything else you drink.

Member at your meeting is WRONG and frankly that kind of thinking can be dangerous for some. You did right. :)

rsiegel
07-04-2013, 11:58 AM
Pure water is required in order to burn fat and to detoxify your body. Your body will not treat any water that has added sucralose or flavorings and preservatives as water, but will process the drink as food. The water that you assimilate from food is additional and is not counted in your 64 ounces!

For example, MiO is sweetened with sucralose, a calorie-free, artificial sweetener. To maintain color and freshness, MiO does use certain preservatives and artificial colorings and is also less alkaline. Why would you want to clean up your diet, lose weight and detox while adding something to your body that will not let you burn fat effectively and will add stress to your body?

So there is no way around it, dieters! Water is the FAT BURNER and DETOXIFIER that your body needs for effective weight loss!

Arctic Mama
07-04-2013, 02:48 PM
I personally try not to count my Mio and tea in my water requirements, if only because I can consume enough to give me a headache if in not careful :lol: So I try to be a good little Atkins girl and keep my artificial sweeteners to three servings, regardless of whether there are carbs, caffeine, what have you.

But that's a *personal* preference - I think any liquids that are essentially calorie free and clear (tea/coffee/water with lemon/crystal lite/whatever) can count toward our liquid tally for the day.

JohnP
07-04-2013, 04:41 PM
Pure water is required in order to burn fat and to detoxify your body. Your body will not treat any water that has added sucralose or flavorings and preservatives as water, but will process the drink as food. The water that you assimilate from food is additional and is not counted in your 64 ounces!

For example, MiO is sweetened with sucralose, a calorie-free, artificial sweetener. To maintain color and freshness, MiO does use certain preservatives and artificial colorings and is also less alkaline. Why would you want to clean up your diet, lose weight and detox while adding something to your body that will not let you burn fat effectively and will add stress to your body?

So there is no way around it, dieters! Water is the FAT BURNER and DETOXIFIER that your body needs for effective weight loss!

This is the best well written malarkey I've seen. I'm not kidding when I say you should write ads. Verbiage like this is what seperates folks from their money. If I didn't know that everything in your post was complete nonsense I would believe it was 100% true. No kidding, I'm impressed!

sontaikle
07-04-2013, 04:44 PM
I think it's silly to discount liquids as "water." That person at your meeting is just spreading around rumors! I too like tea, mio, crystal light, diet sodas, etc. While I try to drink water as much as possible, as a former boredom eater it's much easier for me to stay on track if I drink a few flavored beverages. Much better than eating too much I figure :dizzy:

I'm hydrated just fine whatever I drink!

Pure water is required in order to burn fat and to detoxify your body. Your body will not treat any water that has added sucralose or flavorings and preservatives as water, but will process the drink as food. The water that you assimilate from food is additional and is not counted in your 64 ounces!

For example, MiO is sweetened with sucralose, a calorie-free, artificial sweetener. To maintain color and freshness, MiO does use certain preservatives and artificial colorings and is also less alkaline. Why would you want to clean up your diet, lose weight and detox while adding something to your body that will not let you burn fat effectively and will add stress to your body?

So there is no way around it, dieters! Water is the FAT BURNER and DETOXIFIER that your body needs for effective weight loss!


Um, no. While pure water is probably best for health reasons, calories matter when weight loss is concerned.

I drink artificially flavored drinks more than I probably should, yet I've maintained my loss and I'm losing a few lbs just fine even drinking the stuff.

thnknthin1
07-04-2013, 08:29 PM
I have been adding Mio/Koolaid drops to my water this whole time along with drinking the occasional diet coke and having my morning coffee. I have lost 108 lbs flavoring my water!

JohnP
07-05-2013, 12:52 AM
I have lost 108 lbs flavoring my water!

Think of how much MORE you could have lost if you weren't so foolish with your silly flavored water! :D

thnknthin1
07-05-2013, 01:16 AM
Think of how much MORE you could have lost if you weren't so foolish with your silly flavored water! :D

You mean I should be at goal by now?!? Oh the wasted time. :)

kaplods
07-05-2013, 01:45 AM
Pure water is required in order to burn fat and to detoxify your body. Your body will not treat any water that has added sucralose or flavorings and preservatives as water, but will process the drink as food. The water that you assimilate from food is additional and is not counted in your 64 ounces!

For example, MiO is sweetened with sucralose, a calorie-free, artificial sweetener. To maintain color and freshness, MiO does use certain preservatives and artificial colorings and is also less alkaline. Why would you want to clean up your diet, lose weight and detox while adding something to your body that will not let you burn fat effectively and will add stress to your body?

So there is no way around it, dieters! Water is the FAT BURNER and DETOXIFIER that your body needs for effective weight loss!


Bull.......shirt. First of all no drinking water is "pure." It all has "stuff" dissolved in it, whether you get it from a spring or from a tap or from a bottle (which may come from someone else's tap).

Your body has absolutely no problem separating the water from anything it comes in with, solid or liquid. You could even get all your water requirements without drinking anything, if you ate enough fruits and vegetables (most Americans don't come even close).

Many of the food additives people are so scared of, are natural ingredients with chemically sounding names. Ascorbic acid is one of the most common, and it's Vitamin C. Another is acetic acid and that's vinegar.

Environmental pollutants and household chemicals are far more dangerous than any of the FDA approved food additives, from the vast array of toxic chemicals in household furnishings, household cleansers, laundry detergents, man-made fibers for clothing, building materials....

So if you want to live free of potentially dangerous toxins, you can't live in a modern, normally furnished home, wear normal clothes, clean or bathe with normal products....

Unless you're living naked in the woods, water additives are the least of your worries. And if you ARE living naked in the woods, water additives would still be the least of your worries.

MissSMcC
07-05-2013, 07:24 AM
Unless you're living naked in the woods, water additives are the least of your worries. And if you ARE living naked in the woods, water additives would still be the least of your worries.

Pahahahahahahaha! :lol::cp::high:

Goddess Jessica
07-05-2013, 12:36 PM
There is some studies that suggest that sweeteners increase your desire to eat and drink more sweet things and that habitual consumption of sweeteners increase your chance of developing Type II diabetes. You can look at the Yale University study in Neuroscience and the study of 66,000 women in France over 14 years in the American Journal of Clinical Nutrition for more information.

That said, I think it works for a lot of people. For me, I drink A LOT of diet soda. For a long time, I drank it instead of water and I did feel like it hindered my weight loss because I drank less fluids overall.

I notice when I use diet soda as a treat and stick to iced tea or water with lemon as my "flavoring", I have a much better week.

Psychic
07-05-2013, 12:44 PM
I would say only plain water, lemon water, and unsweetened caffeine-free teas (green and most herbals) count as water. Caffeine actually dehydrates you, so coffee, diet soda, and caffeinated teas have negative effects on hydration.

JohnP
07-05-2013, 03:56 PM
There is some studies that suggest that sweeteners increase your desire to eat and drink more sweet things and that habitual consumption of sweeteners increase your chance of developing Type II diabetes. You can look at the Yale University study in Neuroscience and the study of 66,000 women in France over 14 years in the American Journal of Clinical Nutrition for more information.

I've read it and it doesn't suggest either one of those things unless you have a predetermined bias. That's is what the headlines reporting about the study say, but not the study itself. They tried very hard to control variables but in the end it was like every other study of it's type - only correlational. The big challenge? Self reporting. Other studies have shown that people are terrible at self reporting. They are terrible at estimating calories. People are damn good at lying to themselves. Here is a very good article (in my opinion) on the subject. (http://www.bodyrecomposition.com/research-review/the-dieters-paradox-research-review.html)

By the way - I'll admit I have a bias. I worked for several years as a waiter and saw it all the time. Overweight people would order some major calories up and drink a diet soda with it.

It seems to me that if artificial sweetners caused people to eat more, it would be fairly simple to demonstrate in a controlled study.

JohnP
07-05-2013, 03:57 PM
Caffeine actually dehydrates you ... diet soda, and caffeinated teas have negative effects on hydration.

The slightest bit of research will show that this is incorrect.

Goddess Jessica
07-05-2013, 04:13 PM
I've read it and it doesn't suggest either one of those things unless you have a predetermined bias.

I disagree.

The european study suggested it in their conclusion, "Both SSB consumption and ASB consumption were associated with increased T2D risk. We cannot rule out that factors other than ASB consumption that we did not control for are responsible for the association with diabetes, and randomized trials are required to prove a causal link between ASB consumption and T2D." Again, that's why I didn't say prove but suggest.

And the Yale study (I think) makes a much stronger suggestion in their conclusion, "Lastly, artificial sweeteners, precisely because they are sweet, encourage sugar craving and sugar dependence. Repeated exposure trains flavor preference. A strong correlation exists between a person’s customary intake of a flavor and his preferred intensity for that flavor. Systematic reduction of dietary salt or fat without any flavorful substitution over the course of several weeks led to a preference for lower levels of those nutrients in the research subjects. In light of these findings, a similar approach might be used to reduce sugar intake. Unsweetening the world’s diet may be the key to reversing the obesity epidemic."

JohnP
07-05-2013, 08:02 PM
I disagree.

The european study suggested it in their conclusion, "Both SSB consumption and ASB consumption were associated with increased T2D risk. We cannot rule out that factors other than ASB consumption that we did not control for are responsible for the association with diabetes, and randomized trials are required to prove a causal link between ASB consumption and T2D." Again, that's why I didn't say prove but suggest.

And the Yale study (I think) makes a much stronger suggestion in their conclusion, "Lastly, artificial sweeteners, precisely because they are sweet, encourage sugar craving and sugar dependence. Repeated exposure trains flavor preference. A strong correlation exists between a person’s customary intake of a flavor and his preferred intensity for that flavor. Systematic reduction of dietary salt or fat without any flavorful substitution over the course of several weeks led to a preference for lower levels of those nutrients in the research subjects. In light of these findings, a similar approach might be used to reduce sugar intake. Unsweetening the world’s diet may be the key to reversing the obesity epidemic."

I apologize for not reading more carefully. You made two points and I only saw one. One of the points you made I agree with. I was only talking about the French women study.

Regarding the French women study we apparently disagree on what the word "suggest" means. The researchers in the French study conclude there is correlation. They don't suggest diet soda leads to anything only that there is association. (Correlation) Like any good researcher they know what their study shows and what it does not. Then again, we already knew this. The only main difference is that in this study they were able to control more variables and the study is certainly the largest and longest of it's kind. My point was the headlines about the study are different than the conclusion of the study.

The second study - the Yale study - is one I would agree with. You make the diet bland and in most people you'll reduce the cravings for not bland. This seems like an unlikely solution except for people willing to eat bland diets. Also, it doesn't mean that diet soda makes makes one more likely to develop diabetes.

Disclaimer: I work for the diet soda industry. Just kidding! :D

GlamourGirl827
07-05-2013, 08:17 PM
This is the best well written malarkey I've seen. I'm not kidding when I say you should write ads. Verbiage like this is what seperates folks from their money. If I didn't know that everything in your post was complete nonsense I would believe it was 100% true. No kidding, I'm impressed!

:cp: Glad you said it, because I was thinking it!

GlamourGirl827
07-05-2013, 08:19 PM
Bull.......shirt. First of all no drinking water is "pure." It all has "stuff" dissolved in it, whether you get it from a spring or from a tap or from a bottle (which may come from someone else's tap).

Your body has absolutely no problem separating the water from anything it comes in with, solid or liquid. You could even get all your water requirements without drinking anything, if you ate enough fruits and vegetables (most Americans don't come even close).

Many of the food additives people are so scared of, are natural ingredients with chemically sounding names. Ascorbic acid is one of the most common, and it's Vitamin C. Another is acetic acid and that's vinegar.

Environmental pollutants and household chemicals are far more dangerous than any of the FDA approved food additives, from the vast array of toxic chemicals in household furnishings, household cleansers, laundry detergents, man-made fibers for clothing, building materials....

So if you want to live free of potentially dangerous toxins, you can't live in a modern, normally furnished home, wear normal clothes, clean or bathe with normal products....

Unless you're living naked in the woods, water additives are the least of your worries. And if you ARE living naked in the woods, water additives would still be the least of your worries.

And another post that deserves a :cp: and a :lol: about living naked in the woods!!

Especially the good point about the body seperating water from foods!

GlamourGirl827
07-05-2013, 08:30 PM
With fluid restricted patients, like those on dialysis, we count ALL fluids, coffee, tea, sweetened or not, and those people are typically not voiding. Now for those patients that are peeing, we still count coffee and tea. Like John said, yes its a diuretic, but not so potent that it cancels itself out. You might go more after your morning cup of joe, and no I wouldn't want to chug 48oz of coffee during a workout, but I know people that do drink an iced coffee at the gym and they are fine. People tend to throw the word dehydrate around a lot. Its used freely in situations where people are not dehydrated. We are not going to dehydrate because of some coffee. Now if its been coming out of both ends (not the coffee lol) for several hours and you can't get anything in your body (water food), then yes, you could dehydrate.

Not only do we count all fluids, but certain foods like soup and jello, should be counted or at least monitored if the patient is scarfing them down. And like Kaplods said, our bodies can extra water from other foods like fruits and veggies.

Personally I do not like regular water. I want to, I really do, but I just cant enjoy it, so I drink lemon water. I just add a little fresh squeezed lemon or if I'm feeling lazy, I use that lemon juice in a bottle. And I haven't dehydrated yet. I drink about 1 glass of straight water a day, and the rest lemon.