Other Reduced Carb Diets - An interesting read regarding will power/insulin and obesity.




SnowPetal
03-29-2013, 09:36 PM
Not sure if others have read these, but they are very interesting. I stumbled across them in my research in early 2012. Note in the petition all of the specialists that have signed and commented about insulin being the number 1 driver of obesity. Hopefully it is ok to post these here.

http://www.ipetitions.com/petition/response-to-nytimes-the-fat-trap/

http://www.nytimes.com/2012/01/01/magazine/tara-parker-pope-fat-trap.html?_r=2&pagewanted=all&

http://www.ipetitions.com/petition/response-to-nytimes-the-fat-trap/signatures


IanG
03-29-2013, 09:41 PM
Thanks and interesting. I just ate the wrong stuff though and too much of it so I can't blame anything other than that. But I agree that some people are more pre-disposed to weight gain than others. I probably got dealt a bad card with that so will need to watch what I eat more carefully than most. Even more reason for me to avoid the fast food!

nelie
03-30-2013, 07:51 AM
Studies based on the NWCR are interesting and there are many on this site that are in it, myself included. it is the largest database of those who have lost significant weight and kept it off. I'm not sure why there is a petition on an article using various studies and the NWCR but I notice who started the petition.

I also recommend all members to peruse the maintainers section here as we have a number of people on this site who have lost varying weights and maintained the weight loss for varying periods of time.

We had an article linked somewhere on this site a couple years ago which aggregated various studies and available data on weight loss with long term maintenance. The number one commercial diet plan was Weight Watchers and the number one non-commercial plan was counting calories. It also showed no difference in effectiveness of low carb, moderate carb or higher carb diet plans but low carb diet plans had a much lower long term compliance than others.

I think we see the same thing on this site in terms of counting calories being popular and effective. I personally hate counting calories so there is that but ill use it once in a while to gauge myself. We also often have low carbers get stuck in weight loss and many mix in calorie counting.

But we say whatever works for you and weight loss is a learning process and a journey.


SnowPetal
03-30-2013, 05:21 PM
IanG that was the point of the article :) That addiction to sugars (starchy carbs including breads etc) are fuelling the obesity epidemic as they don't allow insulin to do it's job as it's constantly in a state of 'I must store fat'. And that they are addictive because they change the way our bodies and brain works. You just proved the point.

Nelie i'm not sure why you have such a negative attitude to paleo and low carb ways of eating. If you don't believe in it then don't comment, it's much better than constantly shooting it down, especially in the low carb section. This way of eating has a phenomial amount of success and the fact that so many specialists including cardiologists and bariatric specialists are now using it based on solid science says a lot more than a few dodgy studies where people couldn't stick to it.

One of the people that started this petition is actually a doctor.

nelie
03-30-2013, 05:49 PM
I do not have a negative opinion of low carb ways of eating. I think a lot of people on this site have used low carb or a mix of low carb and something else in weight loss. I was referring to the fact that it seems perplexing to have someone write an article based on known studies and data and then have someone write a petition because the article dosen't include their opinion. The main article used data from the NWCR which I was trying to provide insight of what we know of it and our own experiences on the ite. The NWCR shouldn't be discounted just becaus it's data doesn't say low carb is the only way.

SnowPetal
03-30-2013, 06:39 PM
I do not have a negative opinion of low carb ways of eating. I think a lot of people on this site have used low carb or a mix of low carb and something else in weight loss. I was referring to the fact that it seems perplexing to have someone write an article based on known studies and data and then have someone write a petition because the article dosen't include their opinion. The main article used data from the NWCR which I was trying to provide insight of what we know of it and our own experiences on the ite. The NWCR shouldn't be discounted just becaus it's data doesn't say low carb is the only way.

They started the petition because insulin plays a massive role in obesity and the article left this out. Insulin playing a massive role in obesity is not their opinion, it is a solid scientific fact. That was their point, that the article should have included all scientifc facts relating to obesity and it didn't.

nelie
03-30-2013, 06:44 PM
They started the petition because insulin plays a massive role in obesity and the article left this out. Insulin playing a massive role in obesity is not their opinion, it is a solid scientific fact. That was their point, that the article should have included all scientifc facts relating to obesity and it didn't.

I think they expect too much from the article. It was an article based on data from the NWCR which encompasses individual methods and habits that have led to weight loss and maintenance. If you search PubMed, you'll find hundreds (thousands?) of research articles on obesity and expecting a journalist to encompass them all in a single article is really expecting a lot.

Sometimes on PubMed you'll find a study of study where researchers have attempted to summarize all we know now based on the research but even that probably takes a lot of rigor and multiple people working on it. Why not just submit an article showing whatever studies that they want as data?

freelancemomma
04-23-2013, 01:26 AM
Hmmm... In the second article, Janice Bridge is described as someone who struggles to lose weight. But the article also states: <<After peaking at 330 pounds in 2004, she tried again to lose weight. She managed to drop 30 pounds, but then her weight loss stalled. In 2006, at age 60, she joined a MEDICALLY SUPERVISED [caps mine] weight-loss program with her husband, Adam, who weighed 310 pounds. After nine months on an 800-calorie diet, she slimmed down to 165 pounds.>>

So she lost 135 pounds in 9 months, or about 3.5 pounds per week, on an 800-calorie diet!! Call me a cynic, but that spectacular result makes me suspect that she was actually eating more than she realized while trying to lose weight on her own.

Freelance

BigSky
04-24-2013, 09:56 AM
Insulin is not the villain a lot of folks assume it to be. In fact the body uses insulin to release fat from fat stores, as well as deposit it. And what a lot of people may not realize, is that the body also releases insulin when protein is consumed. In fact, one study showed as much insulin is released eating a six ounce steak as in the same amount of potatoes!
This may seem to throw a wrench into every low carb diet book out there. And there are dozens. Low carb diets certainly help people lose weight. But the science behind how it does this is not well understood. I think it all comes down to calories consumed, but many will disagree.

EagleRiverDee
04-24-2013, 03:12 PM
In the reading I've done, the theory I've run across is that insulin is the delivery system to your fat cells. If you keep your insulin low, then you won't gain fat, because you physically cannot if the insulin isn't present to feed the fat cells. It's why lower carb diet plans work so well, even when caloric intake stays high. And by lower carb, I mean lower than the SAD. People eating SAD often take in 250-400g of carbs a day. I'm just talking about getting it under 150. Low carb is under 100, and very low carb is under 50. Different people respond differently so how much you have to cut carbs is variable. For me, I need to be under 100 to actively lose weight.

freelancemomma
04-27-2013, 10:14 PM
In the reading I've done, the theory I've run across is that insulin is the delivery system to your fat cells. If you keep your insulin low, then you won't gain fat, because you physically cannot if the insulin isn't present to feed the fat cells. It's why lower carb diet plans work so well, even when caloric intake stays high.

Just thinking out loud here. Let's say you're eating 3,000 calories per day, very little of it in carbs. What happens to all those extra calories that can't get into your fat cells because you've kept your insulin low? Are they simply excreted? (I'm not necessarily trying to prove you wrong -- just wondering how the theory might play out in real life.)

F.

Lolo70
04-28-2013, 01:26 AM
Just thinking out loud here. Let's say you're eating 3,000 calories per day, very little of it in carbs. What happens to all those extra calories that can't get into your fat cells because you've kept your insulin low? Are they simply excreted? (I'm not necessarily trying to prove you wrong -- just wondering how the theory might play out in real life.)

F.

Amino acids from proteins can be converted into glucose and I think there is a inefficient pathway from fat, as well. So, you will probably still get insulin secreted after eating. The magnitude of release may be lower. But muscle and the liver can also restore glycogen production after adaptation to ketosis, which woud increase blood glucose levels. Even without glucose, the body can store fat using acylation-stimulating protein (ASP). ASP among other effects stimulates triacylglycerol synthesis in human adipocytes and skin fibroblasts. ASP also stimulates insulin secretion. Its levels are higher in Type II diabetes and during inflammation.

ASP probably explains where Gary Taubes is wrong. If you eat too much fat, the fat that is not used or converted can get stored as fat even in the absence of carbs.

Lolo70
04-28-2013, 01:30 AM
And this is why I sometimes resent men:

Acylation stimulating protein: a female lipogenic factor?http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/21348923

The progesterone cream just went back into the closet.

freelancemomma
04-29-2013, 12:23 AM
Amino acids from proteins can be converted into glucose and I think there is a inefficient pathway from fat, as well. So, you will probably still get insulin secreted after eating. The magnitude of release may be lower. But muscle and the liver can also restore glycogen production after adaptation to ketosis, which woud increase blood glucose levels. Even without glucose, the body can store fat using acylation-stimulating protein (ASP). ASP among other effects stimulates triacylglycerol synthesis in human adipocytes and skin fibroblasts. ASP also stimulates insulin secretion. Its levels are higher in Type II diabetes and during inflammation.

ASP probably explains where Gary Taubes is wrong. If you eat too much fat, the fat that is not used or converted can get stored as fat even in the absence of carbs.

Thanks for the great explanation, Lolo.

F.