Ideal Protein Diet - Concerns about IP ingredients (GMO or non? organic? sucralose, soy): Anyone else?




Tailwinds
03-12-2013, 04:47 PM
Being overweight poses risks to our health, both physical (e.g., heart disease, diabetes) and psychological (e.g., depression) and it is really important to get to a healthy weight. There are many ways to do that, each with varying degrees of complexity, speed and risks and choosing a weight loss program is an individual decision based on balancing the risks and rewards based on that individual's knowledge and willingness to assume risks.

I am only a little more than a month into IP so I am still learning. But I have come to realize that these foods contain, especially in aggregate, large amounts of soy and sucralose, both of which are known to pose serious health risks based on studies which are not sponsored by their manufacturers.

On a related note, I was told by the owner of my center that IP foods are non-GMO and organic. Yet there is no mention of this on their packaging or their web site. Given that these attributes provide HUGE marketing advantages, this stunned me and drove me to pursue more information. When I emailed the manufacturer, they said that their foods are non-GMO. When I asked whether they were organic, they referred me back to my center. In an email exchange, the owner said that she would give me the information provided by IP which shows that their foods are indeed organic and non-GMO. I am to get that information at my consult with my coach, a co-owner, tomorrow.

Due to chronic health problems (Chronic Lyme disease since 1975 undiagnosed until 2003), I have had to learn a lot about the things we put in and on our body. I have seen the FDA insist that things are safe while scientific studies say otherwise leading Europe and other countries to ban substances that we consume in abundance in the US. So I have become increasingly skeptical over the years. It can be a real challenge to know whom to believe anymore.

Does anyone else share my concerns? How do you deal with them? Is the program a way to start your weight loss journey and then transition to another ketosis diet or to some other weight loss plan? Or are you accepting the risks to get to goal and through Phase 4 using IP foods? Or something in-between?


TripSwitch
03-12-2013, 05:10 PM
I'm not on IP... But there was a thread about this not that long ago... And if I remember correctly the IP foods weren't organic... And I think there was a whole debate about the non-GMO issue as part of that thread as well... Hopefully someone here can link to it for you...

Tailwinds
03-12-2013, 05:18 PM
Thank you for taking the time to post.

I don't know if it was the same thread, but I did participate in a thread not long ago about non-GMO and organic claims by IP. At least in the one that I saw, there was no conclusion, only a lot of skepticism about the claims. I am wondering if anyone has conclusive information on the organic and GMO issues. I will post more information tomorrow after seeing what information my coach provides.

But I am also very interested in a discussion about assuming the risks of eating foods that are known to pose health risks, especially in these large amounts, and how people are dealing with it.


Ojenchilada
03-12-2013, 05:51 PM
I share your concerns. Let's be honest...there's nothing natural about the IP foods. I certainly don't see this as a long-term solution to my weight problem, but I love how it has transitioned me into believing I don't need so many carbs to function. I don't know yet how or when I will transition to some other plan, but I consider IP to be a stepping stone.

Jez
03-12-2013, 05:58 PM
I think that short-term diets like these are worth the weirdness. It comes down to weighing the healthfulness of continuing to eat the way that got us to where we are vs. the healthfulness of the "weird" diet. I figure I've eaten like crap off and on for years. This isn't what's going to make me sick. It's a jump start to a healthier life.

(ETA: Note, I am not on IP. But I have pretty unconventional views of what is "healthy" the more I learn about foods, and it takes a lot for me to say that doing some kind of fad/short-term diet is worth the chemically weirdness.)

scorbett1103
03-12-2013, 06:01 PM
I believe in the previous thread, the only documented mention of IP products being non-GMO and organic came from one particular clinic's website. It wasn't the corporate website, just one clinic among many. If it were part of corporate literature, I am fairly certain that many more clinics would use it in their advertising, as the organic/non-GMO label is a HUGE draw for many people and would likely increase sales.

Momto2cs
03-12-2013, 06:12 PM
In Canada sucralose is in all kinds of products-from diet pop to kids freezies.
You can avoid this in ip by using the soups, etc. instead of the sweet foods.

I don't think anyone expects a plan that has you eating out of food envelops would be organic...

tam67green
03-12-2013, 06:24 PM
I share your concerns. Let's be honest...there's nothing natural about the IP foods. I certainly don't see this as a long-term solution to my weight problem, but I love how it has transitioned me into believing I don't need so many carbs to function. I don't know yet how or when I will transition to some other plan, but I consider IP to be a stepping stone.

Totally agree! That was well said!

JohnP
03-12-2013, 06:26 PM
The IP diet is a PSMF diet. It relies heavily on pre-packaged food with many non organic ingredients.

If you want to follow a PSMF diet that uses organic only you have some options.

1) You can follow the IP protocol and use alternative products that are similar to IP products. For example - you can buy organic protein powder from True Protein.

2) You can follow another program, such as "Rapid Fat Loss" that has you only eating whole foods and you can buy organic. (Personally I believe this program is superior for many reasons primarily based on it's whole foods approach)

The downside to either one of these options is that you won't get the support of an IP coach for in person accountablity.

lisa32989
03-12-2013, 06:32 PM
Being overweight poses risks to our health, both physical (e.g., heart disease, diabetes) and psychological (e.g., depression) and it is really important to get to a healthy weight. There are many ways to do that, each with varying degrees of complexity, speed and risks and choosing a weight loss program is an individual decision based on balancing the risks and rewards based on that individual's knowledge and willingness to assume risks.

I am only a little more than a month into IP so I am still learning. But I have come to realize that these foods contain, especially in aggregate, large amounts of soy and sucralose, both of which are known to pose serious health risks based on studies which are not sponsored by their manufacturers.

On a related note, I was told by the owner of my center that IP foods are non-GMO and organic. Yet there is no mention of this on their packaging or their web site. Given that these attributes provide HUGE marketing advantages, this stunned me and drove me to pursue more information. When I emailed the manufacturer, they said that their foods are non-GMO. When I asked whether they were organic, they referred me back to my center. In an email exchange, the owner said that she would give me the information provided by IP which shows that their foods are indeed organic and non-GMO. I am to get that information at my consult with my coach, a co-owner, tomorrow.

Due to chronic health problems (Chronic Lyme disease since 1975 undiagnosed until 2003), I have had to learn a lot about the things we put in and on our body. I have seen the FDA insist that things are safe while scientific studies say otherwise leading Europe and other countries to ban substances that we consume in abundance in the US. So I have become increasingly skeptical over the years. It can be a real challenge to know whom to believe anymore.

Does anyone else share my concerns? How do you deal with them? Is the program a way to start your weight loss journey and then transition to another ketosis diet or to some other weight loss plan? Or are you accepting the risks to get to goal and through Phase 4 using IP foods? Or something in-between?
I had very similar concerns.
First, I decided that the health benefits of losing over 100 lbs outweighed my concerns and I would look at the processed foods as temporary.

Soy is one of the worst of the GMO products (most widespread, etc)
I developed hypothyroid problems after starting on IP, and soy can be traced as a culprit. I have since gone soy and gluten-free (I've read a LOT about gluten-free being very important for Hashimotos and other hypothyroid issues)
So, cutting soy cut out much of the GMO concerns that I had. Do I know the sources of the milk for the whey protein? No. Could they be from cows treated wtih BGH? sure.
Again, I'm looking at it as temporary.

I'm gradually scaling back on products with sucralose and replacing with stevia. I'm now making my own soups with plain protein powder and veggies purees. I buy the Quest bars sweetened with stevia. I use the Simply brand protein chips (soy and gluten-free). I'm about 63% to goal. For maintenance P1 days, I'll get to be much pickier about products used.

One thing IP has done is re-ignite my sweet tooth. I was pretty much sweetener-free prior to IP. I'll have to move toward that again. One step at a time. Again, temporary to get the weight off. That is the first goal. There were a LOT of unhealthy foods I was eating to get to be the weight I was. I can "clean it up" more when I get to maintenance.

Until then, much of the produce I buy is organic or from local farm sources. This time of year in the Midwest, I'm stuck with what is trucked in (thank goodness for that!) We have some local farmers with greenhouses who are selling items once per month at indoor farmers markets locations thru the winter.

Tailwinds
03-12-2013, 08:08 PM
Thank you, everyone, for your replies. I am glad to know that I am not the only one with these concerns. Jennifer, yes, well said.

scorbett, we are in total agreement which is why I am eager to see what information my center provides. I will post here when I get it and will be interested to see what others think.

JohnP., thank you. I really like your suggestions. Is the Rapid Fat Loss program you refer to from "The Rapid Fat Loss Handbook: A Scientific Approach to Crash Dieting" by Lyle McDonald? The cheapest offer on Amazon is $80 something... I will check out True Protein powder. I think I want to keep my coaching accountability for a while longer, but I know from past experience that I will be able to stop at some point and continue to lose weight without that. It is good to have some options to consider in advance of that transition.

Lisa: I have asked for the ingredients in each food which I am to get tomorrow, too. I am hoping to avoid or at least minimize use of the foods with soy. From information in another thread, I have ordered Quest bars from the All Natural Line because they are sweetened with Stevia. Are you talking about chips from Simply Choices by Wellness Foods? Are you using any IP foods at this point?

Tailwinds
03-12-2013, 08:16 PM
I see True Protein has vegan powders. That makes me very happy.

JohnP
03-12-2013, 09:19 PM
JohnP., thank you. I really like your suggestions. Is the Rapid Fat Loss program you refer to from "The Rapid Fat Loss Handbook: A Scientific Approach to Crash Dieting" by Lyle McDonald? The cheapest offer on Amazon is $80 something... I will check out True Protein powder. I think I want to keep my coaching accountability for a while longer, but I know from past experience that I will be able to stop at some point and continue to lose weight without that. It is good to have some options to consider in advance of that transition.

Yea - that's the book but I wouldn't buy it from Amazon. Pretty weird that someone would be selling a used copy for more than double what a new one is. Buy it here. (http://www.bodyrecomposition.com/the-rapid-fat-loss-handbook#purchase) The E-Book is $29.95. Also, you can google up a pdf version but I would urge you to buy it if you find it valuable to support the author.

Ojenchilada
03-12-2013, 09:49 PM
Great thread. In all these weeks, my coach has only been at the office twice. So I don't see much of a point to sticking with IP any longer. I really like the whole foods PSMF option. And Lisa, I am with you--this program has super charged my sweet tooth.

Desafinado
03-12-2013, 10:10 PM
I weighed the risks and considered that I was eating like **** before starting IP and decided it was worth it for me since it wouldn't be a lifetime thing.

Tailwinds
03-12-2013, 10:21 PM
JohnP, thank you and sorry for the delay in telling you. I've been reading at Lyle's web site!

Jennifer, I'm really glad this thread turned into something helpful for you, thanks to JohnP.

I have to learn more about whether this is the right way for me because I am committed to a vegetarian and ultimately a vegan lifestyle, neither of which is possible on IP and, per Lyle, not on his program, either. He specifically says you have to be willing to eat some chicken and fish.

Tailwinds
03-12-2013, 10:28 PM
Thank you, Desafinado. I think a lot of people are in the same situation.

SFNinerGirl
03-12-2013, 10:28 PM
This was my hang up before starting Ideal Protein that put me off of doing it for months.

But what I realized was that carrying the weight is more risky that what I can consume on this diet. Carrying more fat cells can lead to disease faster than any food product.

Additionally, I know that I can always detox after the program to remove excess soy, processed chemicals and sucralose out of my system as I have done many times in the past to release other things from my body. I have been using the same system since 2004 and have had great success with it.

Tailwinds
03-12-2013, 10:30 PM
SFNiner: Are you concerned about the risks of those things in your body in the meantime? Do you detox along the way or wait until you reach goal?

jeffiner
03-12-2013, 10:35 PM
Honestly this makes me feel like sticking my head in the sand..I am finally having success..lost over 30 lbs..people are beginning to notice...my clothes feel good...and I have had this little nagging voice in the back of my head questioning the health of these foods ,so reading it here is very hard.....

Every day for breakfast I have a caramel nut bar...lunch is either herb and cheese omlette or tomato pasta.....then at night I have the chocolate drink hot...
I do not add any sweatners to my tea(usually two cups per day). The rest is veggies and protein.....
I know the health benefits of losing weight are great..but I dont want to worry about unknown health issues...yikes..what to do???

Tailwinds
03-12-2013, 10:40 PM
jeffiner, that is where I am, too. I may continue, but if I do, I want to do it with my eyes open.

I've pretty well decided that I won't go past Phase 1 and may stop short of that to do what JohnP has suggested. Same concept but without the coaching. I suppose I could join Weight Watchers for the weekly weigh-ins and just not tell them what I'm eating...

Ojenchilada
03-12-2013, 10:46 PM
We all have to listen to our own bodies and minds and circumstances...and then make decisions accordingly. I think it is perfectly fine to lose your weight using IP products if that's what feels best to you. Honestly, if I felt more connection to my coach, I might finish on the plan. As it is, though, I am going to look into my other options. I am thankful for the ease of IP in getting me started. And I will return to it if I find myself struggling with whole foods.

Tailwinds
03-12-2013, 10:53 PM
Jennifer, I agree. If I didn't already have decades old health issues, I wouldn't think twice about it because it is important to me to lose this weight. If I form a bond with my coaches and feel that they understand my concerns and are transparent with the information, and possibly options within IP, then I will go further than if they do not.

SFNinerGirl
03-12-2013, 11:38 PM
SFNiner: Are you concerned about the risks of those things in your body in the meantime? Do you detox along the way or wait until you reach goal?

So far I have not shown any indication of holding onto extra estrogen in my body, generally indicated by the presence of petechiea on the breasts, arms and tops of thighs (in men- chest, back and belly).

I detox during IP with home brewed yogi tea and smooth move tea which I add black walnut hull tincture to a few times a week.

After Phase 1, I plan on following the 21 day whole body purification that I spoke of. It always yields tremendous results for me and regulates my hormone cycles, specifically the balancing of the female OAT axis.

SFNinerGirl
03-12-2013, 11:46 PM
To answer your question less vaguely, no I am not concerned as generally my only concern would be the presence of soy causing an increase in estrogen production from the phytoestrogens that exists in the isoflavones.

So far I am happy with the results. Until my body begins to illustrate signs of any toxicity, I'll continue with the recommended foods.

I do not, however, consume any other products that contain soy outside of IP.

Pdukas143
03-12-2013, 11:54 PM
I'm not sure about everyone else but prior to starting this program - I was eating more fat, sugar, salt and chemically laden food than I care to admit. That is exactly what got me in the position of being overweight, unhealthy and scared enough to make a change.

Do I think that relying on packaged foods is eating perfect - no. Do I think that eating the increased amount of whole foods that I am currently eating is a step in the right direction - absolutely.

I won't be on this forever and I hope that I am learning about portion control, healthy choices and the benefits of whole foods -- I know that I feel better since being on this program than I have in a long time when I was feeling heavy, overweight, tired and defeated.

So - the decisions are difficult and I appreciate that there are people questioning the specifics of this diet - I learn from these discussions and can be in a better position to ensure I'm making the right decision for me. Each person has to do that for themselves.

I wish everyone luck in their chosen path -- no matter which it is - ultimately, we all need to be healthy!!!

Tailwinds
03-12-2013, 11:54 PM
SFNiner, thank you. That is very helpful. I did not realize there would be outward signs of excess estrogen/soy toxicity. I'll have to research that. I don't know how old you are but wonder if being post-menopausal, as I am, affects how soy affects us.

Tailwinds
03-12-2013, 11:56 PM
Pdukas, agreed.

SFNinerGirl
03-12-2013, 11:59 PM
Phytoestrogens are generally used in post menopause therapy, however GMO soy is not the safe way to do it.

I would recommend the yogi tea (I brew it in my crock pot) and eating clean foods outside of the IP packets.

But I can't stress enough the the estrogen you hold in fat cells is much more toxic than consuming soy itself. So when you shrink the fat cells, the estrogen is released, therefore less likely to cause any estrogen dominant cancers or diseases.

JohnP
03-13-2013, 12:58 AM
In my opinion, following a PSMF diet while being a vegetarian is kind of like trying to pound a square peg into a round hole. Trying to avoid all GMO and synthetic products makes things more difficult still.

That said - you can easily get most of the protein from protein shakes and increase the veggie count. True Protein has everything you need organic down to the stevia sweetner. Beyond that - I'd imagine you're be eating a lot of egg whites and Tofu.

Had I known you were a vegetarian I wouldn't have suggested Rapid Fat Loss.

IdealProteinNewbie
03-13-2013, 10:10 AM
I, too, plan to follow a whole foods diet once I'm in maintenance.

However, right now I'm using IP packets as a "tool" to get me to that point. I know I'm preparing and learning how to keep this weight off for the rest of my life so I'm willing to eat out of a packet, but only for right now.

Msbehaving
03-13-2013, 10:40 AM
I do not, however, consume any other products that contain soy outside of IP.

This is something I am also careful about, no other soy products outside of my IP foods.

I'm not sure about everyone else but prior to starting this program - I was eating more fat, sugar, salt and chemically laden food than I care to admit. That is exactly what got me in the position of being overweight, unhealthy and scared enough to make a change.

Do I think that relying on packaged foods is eating perfect - no. Do I think that eating the increased amount of whole foods that I am currently eating is a step in the right direction - absolutely.

I won't be on this forever and I hope that I am learning about portion control, healthy choices and the benefits of whole foods -- I know that I feel better since being on this program than I have in a long time when I was feeling heavy, overweight, tired and defeated.

So - the decisions are difficult and I appreciate that there are people questioning the specifics of this diet - I learn from these discussions and can be in a better position to ensure I'm making the right decision for me. Each person has to do that for themselves.

I wish everyone luck in their chosen path -- no matter which it is - ultimately, we all need to be healthy!!!

Well written, and reflects my feelings too. IP is working for me like nothing else has. I plan to stay on it 100% until at or near goal - with the exception of using some non-IP foods (that are still plan friendly) that have been recommended on 3FC.

We raise our own beef and pork and belong to a local CSA. We have great control over most of the food we eat. Chickens will probably be next, at least for eggs. Hubby also wants to raise rabbits again.

TripSwitch
03-13-2013, 10:57 AM
I did Rapid Fat Loss once as vegan... it wasn't hard... I used Gardein products mostly as my protein source (there are ones that are low carb enough so you can still keep it ketogenic) and I used some hemp protein powders to supplement the rest... Now granted I only did it for 2 weeks, but's that's all I needed to jumpstart the weight loss that I wanted to achieve at the time...

Tailwinds
03-13-2013, 11:27 PM
JohnP: True Protein looks like a very good option, will just need to figure out how to get all my nutrients. I'm still doing IP and really uncertain how much longer to continue. I met with my coach today. She is really trying to help me get the information I need but I'm not sure what to make of what they have been able to give me so far. I will post more on this below.

Yes, I am eating a LOT of eggs. I have stopped eating tofu -- which I was alternating with eggs for my non-IP meal -- out of concern for overdosing on soy, which leaves me with only eggs for my non-IP meal. Once I finish weight loss, I won't be eating eggs anymore, either. I don't do the vegan/vegetarian thing for health but because I've learned how these animals are treated, even on "humane" farms, and I just can't support that.

Lyle McDonald has a book on "Flexible Dieting", I think it is called, that I want to look at more closely. He seems like a very smart man who has done a lot of work. I also figured out that he lives in Austin where I spent the better part of 10 years until a few years ago. There is a lot of great stuff that goes on in and comes out of Austin.


In my opinion, following a PSMF diet while being a vegetarian is kind of like trying to pound a square peg into a round hole. Trying to avoid all GMO and synthetic products makes things more difficult still.

That said - you can easily get most of the protein from protein shakes and increase the veggie count. True Protein has everything you need organic down to the stevia sweetner. Beyond that - I'd imagine you're be eating a lot of egg whites and Tofu.

Had I known you were a vegetarian I wouldn't have suggested Rapid Fat Loss.

Tailwinds
03-13-2013, 11:30 PM
That is interesting. Lyle McDonald says he doesn't like protein powders but I haven't read enough at his site to know why.

I did Rapid Fat Loss once as vegan... it wasn't hard... I used Gardein products mostly as my protein source (there are ones that are low carb enough so you can still keep it ketogenic) and I used some hemp protein powders to supplement the rest... Now granted I only did it for 2 weeks, but's that's all I needed to jumpstart the weight loss that I wanted to achieve at the time...

Tailwinds
03-13-2013, 11:31 PM
Msbehavin, I love your Mae West quote. And your screen name.

Tailwinds
03-13-2013, 11:54 PM
I got some information from my coach today about
(1) IPs use of soy
(2) IPs use of sucralose
(3) IPs non-GMO and organic status
(4) List of ingredients for each food


(1) The document about soy is called "Implications of Soy Protein in the Ideal Protein Weight Loss Plan". It is written by Michael P. Ciello, R.Ph. (Registered Pharmacist), Ideal Protein Chief Science Officer & Vice President of Clinic Operations. I don't have a scanner where I am staying for the foreseeable future but I will try to find the time to type it up in a post here in the next few days. In the meantime, it is on IP letterhead so if you are concerned, you can probably get it from your coach.

(2) The document about sucralose is called "Sucralose Concerns and the Ideal Protein Weight Loss Method. It is written by the same gentleman who wrote the soy document. In both documents, he lists the foods that do not have the ingredient concerned. I'm not sure there are any that don't have either, though.

I haven't read either of the above documents except a quick skim and both documents are explaining why it's ok to consume the soy and sucralose in IP foods. I remain concerned but will reserve judgment until reading these papers.

(3) My coach had an email exchange with the national director about the non-GMO and organic claims. In his reply, he wrote: << Scientific support says our foods are GMO free. That being said I'm at an RDC training in Atlanta and Mike Ciell says that in the US GMO foods have to be 95% GMO they cannot possibly be 100 but in any case we are GMO labeled. Now as far as we've been told when you say GMO free it has to be organic. >> For me, anyway, this raises more questions than it answers, starting with what does "scientific support" mean and whose science. I wrote a lengthy reply back to my coach and hope that she will be able to get some better answers.

(4) In a PDF file from 2009 in the FAQ thread, it shows the ingredients for each of the foods at the time, including the amount of sucralose in each food. The document I got today doesn't give that. I wonder if anyone knows where that came from and if it has been updated for the new formulations. Also, the document I got has six foods per page, has been photocopied a number of times and barely visible to my aging eyes. Oh well.

I agree that we all ate a lot of "toxic" foods to get to the point that we need to do this diet. I think it justifies our rationalization process to continue only to the extent that there are not other options that are likely to work as well. But if one exists, I'd sure like to do that instead.

I've ordered Quest bars and will see if there are other alternatives that can provide all the necessary nutrients without the ingredients of concern, like True Protein. Looking into Gardein and hemp protein powders, too; thank you, TripSwitch.

Tailwinds
03-14-2013, 01:13 AM
The copy of the soy document that I got does not contain the section on cancer. I do know that a friend who was treated for breast cancer at Dana-Farber in Boston (a top cancer center) was told absolutely no soy.

Tailwinds
03-14-2013, 01:15 AM
PS Thanks so much for posting -- you've saved me a lot of typing.

JohnP
03-14-2013, 01:43 AM
That is interesting. Lyle McDonald says he doesn't like protein powders but I haven't read enough at his site to know why.

He doesn't like protein powders because he believes learning good dietary habits is one of the keys to maintaining weight loss. Generally speaking, drinking your calories is not a good dietary habit becase it is far less satiating than eating them.

workingit50
03-14-2013, 02:15 AM
I appreciate all of the thoughtful comments and dialogue on this topic. I am learning a lot from all of the contributors. Thanks.

lovetorun3
03-14-2013, 08:21 AM
What an awesome discussion, great information!
Prior to starting IP, I was artificial sweetener & soy protein isolate free for years. I was hesitant to give the program a try because I didn't want to start eating these things that I had so deliberately eliminated from my diet. However, I couldn't get under a certain weight no matter what I did (weight watchers, Paleo, exercise...) ~ so I decided to give IP a try. So many people that I know have lost weight on the program.
I figured that Phase 1 is temporary so I would do it. Once I'm off of the IP packets, I will chose better sources of protein & get rid of the artificial sweeteners. I'll get back to a more Paleo type of diet (80/20).
It is funny how the centers claim that the IP food is the most natural, cleanest food we could possibly eat. I never believed any of that, I just knew that I'd lose weight on the program!

Desafinado
03-14-2013, 08:55 AM
I should add that I don't go to a center, my coach works out of a doctor's office and he monitors my bloodwork etc every month. For me, that is reassuring and makes it even easier for me to do this program. I'm finally losing the weight I need to shed to avoid loads of health issues. That's why I said, for me, the shortterm risk was worth the longterm benefits. All my meat is locally sourced, but I have added tofu to my diet.

My plan post-IP is to stop using the fake sweeteners (I wasn't using those prior to IP) and to use the same formula -- 50 percent protein, 20 percent carbs, 30 percent fat -- for my daily consumption and get back to whole foods. I've been gathering recipes toward that end.

But first, I gotta lose at least another 75 pounds.

ragdoll74
03-14-2013, 09:34 AM
I'm not sure about everyone else but prior to starting this program - I was eating more fat, sugar, salt and chemically laden food than I care to admit. That is exactly what got me in the position of being overweight, unhealthy and scared enough to make a change.

Do I think that relying on packaged foods is eating perfect - no. Do I think that eating the increased amount of whole foods that I am currently eating is a step in the right direction - absolutely.

I won't be on this forever and I hope that I am learning about portion control, healthy choices and the benefits of whole foods -- I know that I feel better since being on this program than I have in a long time when I was feeling heavy, overweight, tired and defeated.

So - the decisions are difficult and I appreciate that there are people questioning the specifics of this diet - I learn from these discussions and can be in a better position to ensure I'm making the right decision for me. Each person has to do that for themselves.

I wish everyone luck in their chosen path -- no matter which it is - ultimately, we all need to be healthy!!!

I totally agree. I didn't gain all this weight by eating only organic whole foods. I do have to say that since being on IP, I enjoy eating whole foods so much more. I wish I could eat more veggies now than the 4 cups per day.

I plan on staying away from processed foods and artificial sweeteners when I get to maintenance. Partly because I know they aren't heatlhy and also because I'm afraid that I will lose control of my eating again.


In my opinion, following a PSMF diet while being a vegetarian is kind of like trying to pound a square peg into a round hole. Trying to avoid all GMO and synthetic products makes things more difficult still.


:D

My plan post-IP is to stop using the fake sweeteners (I wasn't using those prior to IP) and to use the same formula -- 50 percent protein, 20 percent carbs, 30 percent fat -- for my daily consumption and get back to whole foods. I've been gathering recipes toward that end.

Sounds like a great plan.

WorldTraveleronIP
03-14-2013, 09:47 AM
My plan post-IP is to stop using the fake sweeteners (I wasn't using those prior to IP) and to use the same formula -- 50 percent protein, 20 percent carbs, 30 percent fat -- for my daily consumption and get back to whole foods. I've been gathering recipes toward that end.

But first, I gotta lose at least another 75 pounds.

Exactly! No one ate like this prior to IP. We chose this plan for various reasons and will phase off to whole foods post-phase 2. I knew what was in the powder before I started the program and am not going to worry about it. The food choices I made prior to IP weren't great either.

Tailwinds
03-14-2013, 12:30 PM
What happened to the PDF files that were posted? Those posts have been deleted. Does anyone know why?

EDITING: I had saved the Soy document to my computer so here it is for those who want to read it.

EDITING again to add the IP document on sucralose.

I had the links from the email notifications of postings to this thread. They were broken in the email but there was enough of the link there to make my way to them on the Institute of Health Promotion web site.

Fabulousatfifty
03-14-2013, 03:27 PM
What happened to the PDF files that were posted? Those posts have been deleted. Does anyone know why?

EDITING: I had saved the Soy document to my computer so here it is for those who want to read it.

Wow = thank you tailwinds....this article was very educational to me on the subject of soy and so many other subjects!

lisa32989
03-14-2013, 03:59 PM
What happened to the PDF files that were posted? Those posts have been deleted. Does anyone know why?

EDITING: I had saved the Soy document to my computer so here it is for those who want to read it.

The person who posted a lot of them is a clinic owner now. She may have deleted the copyrighted material.

Tailwinds
03-14-2013, 05:02 PM
He doesn't like protein powders because he believes learning good dietary habits is one of the keys to maintaining weight loss. Generally speaking, drinking your calories is not a good dietary habit becase it is far less satiating than eating them.

Thank you, John. That makes perfect sense. I agree but am willing to do that for the short term and then ease my way back to whole foods when I reach goal. It worked last time. Well, not perfectly since here I am again.

Tailwinds
03-14-2013, 05:04 PM
The person who posted a lot of them is a clinic owner now. She may have deleted the copyrighted material.

Someone posted them in this thread last night but they were gone by this morning. Perhaps someone contacted her over the copyright issues. The URL may have belonged to a clinic and someone asked her to remove them, I don't know.

EDITING: I was able to find the paper on sucralose and posted it above with the paper on soy.

Tailwinds
03-14-2013, 05:06 PM
Wow = thank you tailwinds....this article was very educational to me on the subject of soy and so many other subjects!

I haven't read them closely yet but I would be very cautious in reading anything put out by IP. I don't mean that they are wrong, only that this company has a vested interest in convincing us that it is ok to eat soy and sucralose in their products and I would want to see the same information verified by someone independent of IP.

Tailwinds
04-07-2013, 03:47 PM
I have ended my efforts to get information about the "organic" and "non-GMO" claims from Ideal Protein and want to follow up for anyone who might be wondering where this went.

I don't mean to discourage anyone who is doing well with the diet and is comfortable knowing that the food is probably not as claimed. In spite of my own concerns, I continue on the diet because it is working. Like others who have posted to this thread, for me it it is a calculated risk weighing the benefits of weight loss against the program's risks, a risk I am willing to take until I reach goal because the diet is working.

To summarize: While initially impressed and appreciative that the owners of my center were willing to ask for this information for me, I was stunningly unimpressed with the reply they received and then by their unwillingness to get clarification and documentation of their claims when the reply turned out to be meaningless.

For anyone interested in the information I was able to get, here is a summary of the exchanges with both Ideal Protein and my local center:

This was the reply to my center owner's email to their company contact:

<< Scientific support says our foods are GMO free. That being said I'm at an RDC training in Atlanta and Mike Ciell says that in the US GMO foods have to be 95% GMO they cannot possibly be 100 but in any case we are GMO labeled. Now as far as we've been told when you say GMO free it has to be organic. >>

This answer raised more questions than it answered, at least for me. I asked for clarification, especially what was meant by "scientific support". I got this reply from the co-owner of my center:

<< This is the best information I could get for you.
The scientific support is a board of MDs and RNs answering medical questions.
The food is produced at Pharma Lab a ISO 9000 , the highest Pharma grade lab designation in the world.
The FDA says that you can call foods non GMO if they are 95% Non GMO. The FDA would not allow us to call our foods NonGMO if they are not.
.Ideal Protein is not an organic final product, but the eggs , milk , soy etc are organic ingredients. I am not sure what else I can provide you, if you are still uncertain about the product then we should probably phase you off. >>

I responded:

<< I still don't know what to think. It concerns me that this is the extent of information that they will give you. Has anyone explained why the packaging does not say non-GMO? Is there documentation of FDA non-GMO certification? Why the are organic ingredients are not listed that way on the packaging, as other companies do? Why is this information not on their web site? >>

I did not reply but shortly thereafter received the following message from the other co-owner, who had been copied on the exchanges:

<< Just wanted to follow up on the information [co-owner's name] provided.
This is direct from our IP head quarters which is the most current and credible source we have.
We haven't come across any dieters with issues or questions regarding the source of the food, non GMO etc. The diet has been successful, healthy and safe for all clients thus far.
I hope you can rely on the information [co-owner's name] provided and make the best choice for yourself going forward.
We look forward to helping you either continue on the program or if you decide to phase out, we will guide you thru. >>

So I wrote back to the manufacturer through their web site explaining that I had done as they instructed and asked my center. I provided them with the reply I had received and why it was not satisfactory. They asked me for the name and address of my center to get an answer. I didn't want to get these women in trouble and I also thought it was absurd that the manufacturer could not answer my questions.

So I replied:

<< You are the first company I have ever asked for additional information about their products who has told me to go to one of their stores to get the answer.

Your company makes claims which I am trying to substantiate. I do not understand why you were not willing to answer my questions in the first place and now why you need the name and address of my center to answer them.

Please either answer my questions or tell me that you are not going to. >>

They replied:

<< We require the name and address of the clinic, in order for us to do a follow up with them. They should provide you with all information requested. >>

So I gave up.

If anyone has additional information about their claims, I would be very interested to know it. At this point I don't care so much that the food probably contains GMO and that it is likely that few if any of the relevant ingredients are non-GMO so much as I feel like this company is lying to us. And that they actually think that people are supposed to accept their word as gospel without any documentation of their claims.

BTW, some of the information in those replies is flat out wrong. Check out The Non-GMO Project and the USDA web site for their "Certified Organic" program for more information.

sheila79
04-07-2013, 04:00 PM
I'm glad this thread popped up, this topic has been on my mind a lot. I made the decision (rather impulsively) that the benefit of losing the 30lbs I need to lose outweighs the risks of eating foods I don't really consider to be healthy for 2 or 3 months. I don't regret the choice but I do feel like the artificial sweeteners definitely cause some physiological symptoms for me.

Tailwinds
04-07-2013, 04:30 PM
I'm more concerned about the GMO issues. If you read reports of the research into the risks of GMO foods, it seems to me that those are perhaps much greater than those of sucralose.

I find it notable that in the paper in which IP justifies their use of soy and tries to allay concerns about it, there is no mention that they use non-GMO soy. Another place where the company could hype their use of non-GMO ingredients but doesn't.

I don't know what to make of their paper on use of sucralose but I do understand that artificial sweeteners can cause some immediate symptoms. Fortunately, I haven't had any.

Roo2
04-07-2013, 05:42 PM
Am I the only one that got Fat from eating crappy food?

Let's be honest did any of gain all this weight from eating " Clean Foods"?

This like other people have posted is a Temporary diet! Not something you are going to be on forever!

I have taken the time while on this diet to Retrain my brain.. I listen to cues from my body.

I agree with John when he speaks about it being the degree of toxins.

There are natural occurring toxins in our environment....it is the dosage and the amount of exposure over a period of time .

I am amazed how that people start IP and Now they are soo concerned about their health....Maybe all of us should have been this concerned in the past and we would not be here trying to lose all of this weight that we all gained.

I know I did not gain all this weight by scrutinizing the food I was ingesting.

I was a glutton ...plain and simple...that was destroying my health.

Started Ideal Protein to correct a problem ...that was self made....so transferring all of my baggage concerns on a diet seems ridiculous to me! if you are that concerned about what you are ingesting then become very good friends with a Farmer or perhaps grow your own food Organically....but is it me that just thinks with wind ,rain and soil it is virtually impossible to prevent contaminates from getting into your food source.

I know my health has not been harmed by being on Ideal Protein.....I have become healthier and I am no longer obese.

Could I have lost the weight in other ways? Yes ....was it likely I would have ? No!!! This was a Drastic step that saved my health.... I was headed in the wrong direction and my brakes were out.

I lost my weight over a short period of times and my multiple health problems have improved! Is it perfect ? No ....but what is...

Sometimes I think we present false objections ...and this keeps us from Focusing on what our first objective was....Losing the weight!
I had a goal I refused to get side tracked ....and I banged it out!
I have taken the time while on this diet to develop healthy eating habits ....it is up to be to continue them.

Good luck to everyone and I hope we all achieve what we are striving to accomplish! disclaimer this is IMO and was not meant to insult anyone:)
Roo2:carrot::carrot::carrot:

It is all about benefit vs risk....and going in with your eyes open and accountability for the choices we make....and having the courage to own our decisions that we make in life.

Misti in Seattle
04-07-2013, 05:56 PM
I see True Protein has vegan powders. That makes me very happy.

Natural Factors also has a delicious vegan vanilla protein powder... non-GMO and organic. I love it! It is called "Vegan Protein.:

Tailwinds
04-07-2013, 06:20 PM
Roo2:

These are not "false objections", as you call them. As I said before, I made the decision to start Ideal Protein based on what I was told at the center's information meeting. No one asked her about GMO/organic. It was part of her prepared remarks. I believed her and was relieved that I could do this diet without concern about the GMO-cancer links I've been reading about. I've been eating organic, non-GMO and vegetarian for a couple of years.

So, yes, after a few weeks and with additional input (specifically seeing nothing on the boxes when I bought them for the first time and then seeing that there was nothing on the company web site about non-GMO and organic), I thought it was reasonable to ask some questions. And all I got were non answers.

These may not be a concern for you but they are for me and I present them here only as information for others who want to make an informed decision and not one based on a company's lies which, confronted with their non-answer answers and refusal to provide documentation, I'm inclined to think they are.

Tailwinds
04-07-2013, 06:21 PM
Thank you -- going to check that out right now.

EDIT: Found it on Amazon. It won't work with IP because the carbs are too high. 17g offset only by 2g fiber. But I am bookmarking this for when I finish with Ideal Protein so thank you very much for posting.

Natural Factors also has a delicious vegan vanilla protein powder... non-GMO and organic. I love it! It is called "Vegan Protein.:

sheila79
04-07-2013, 06:38 PM
Gaining 25lbs does not mean that I don't have the right to be concerned about the ingredients in the IP food. I've been gluten free/artificial sweetener free for a couple of years-I decided that the headaches, sore throats and stomach discomfort for a couple of months are worth the benefit of dropping the weight quickly. My choice, and the choice of a lot of others, but does not mean that we cannot discuss the thoughts/feelings we have about ingesting these substances. A center lying/misleading or just plain refusing to provide info about the GMO status of the products adds another element entirely.

Tailwinds
04-07-2013, 06:50 PM
From a purely scientific point of view GMO products are not more dangerous than nonGMO ones. .

Lolo, sorry, just seeing that you posted. Can you provide any links where this is discussed? I haven't seen this in anything I've read.

I agree that there are things out there that are more dangerous than Ideal Protein foods.

JohnP
04-07-2013, 07:20 PM
I'm only aware of one study that linked GMO to cancer. Are there others? Most of the GMO fervor I've seen appears to me more about the right to know vs any known health links. (Similar to this thread actually...)

There are tons of articles that discuss the flaws in that single French study.

Here is one I picked randomly that seems to be reasonably written. (http://www.foodnavigator.com/Science-Nutrition/Smell-a-rat-Flawed-GM-cancer-study-highlights-flawed-media-approach)

Lolo70
04-07-2013, 07:31 PM
Tailwinds: There s a widely published study using rats that were fed GMO vs nonGMO food and the outcome of that study was a dramatic increase in cancer using the GMO food. That is the only study I know off that looked at it.

However, from a scientific point of view, the study did not meet even the most minimal quality standards of a scientific study. It was also totally inconclusive because the used only ten rats (If I remember correctly) per study point. To have any kind of statistical significance, peer reviewed studies would require 22-25 animals. Also, just to put it in perspective, they used the insecticide round-up as a control. According to them, round-up showed a significant decrease in the spontaneous cancer rate. Now, would you eat round-up? Also, rationally, the US is using almost exclusively GMO food for many years, the EU still prohibits it. If GMO were that dangerous, we would see it by now when comparing the US to other countries.

JohnP: Thanks for the link. Monsanto is hated by many and I do not like their business model. But I still just look at facts.

Roo2
04-07-2013, 07:33 PM
Roo2:

These are not "false objections", as you call them. As I said before, I made the decision to start Ideal Protein based on what I was told at the center's information meeting. No one asked her about GMO/organic. It was part of her prepared remarks. I believed her and was relieved that I could do this diet without concern about the GMO-cancer links I've been reading about. I've been eating organic, non-GMO and vegetarian for a couple of years.

So, yes, after a few weeks and with additional input (specifically seeing nothing on the boxes when I bought them for the first time and then seeing that there was nothing on the company web site about non-GMO and organic), I thought it was reasonable to ask some questions. And all I got were non answers.

These may not be a concern for you but they are for me and I present them here only as information for others who want to make an informed decision and not one based on a company's lies which, confronted with their non-answer answers and refusal to provide documentation, I'm inclined to think they are.

Hi Tailwind - we all have to do what we are comfortable with and feel is the best for us.:hug:
Good Luck with finding foods that fit into your dietary program.:hug::D

Roo2:carrot::carrot::carrot::carrot:

Tailwinds
04-07-2013, 07:45 PM
I'm only aware of one study that linked GMO to cancer. Are there others? Most of the GMO fervor I've seen appears to me more about the right to know vs any known health links. (Similar to this thread actually...)

There are tons of articles that discuss the flaws in that single French study.

Here is one I picked randomly that seems to be reasonably written. (http://www.foodnavigator.com/Science-Nutrition/Smell-a-rat-Flawed-GM-cancer-study-highlights-flawed-media-approach)

That is a very interesting read and raises some serious concerns about the study, the scientists and the media. So perhaps we can all feel better that IP foods may very well not be non-GMO.

But, as you say, it's a right-to-know issue.

Tailwinds
04-07-2013, 07:51 PM
Also, rationally, the US is using almost exclusively GMO food for many years, the EU still prohibits it. If GMO were that dangerous, we would see it by now when comparing the US to other countries.


I also wonder why, if there is no evidence that GMO is dangerous, companies spent millions to beat down Prop 37. If it's not dangerous, why hide it.

I am curious what kinds of comparisons have been made?

Lolo70
04-07-2013, 08:08 PM
I think with GMO the biggest problem is the business model. Monsanto basically tries to get a monopoly for selling their seeds. Then, of course, you are going to spread those manipulated genes throughout the wild population. Over time, everything will e.g. be resistant to round-up. A lot of people are also concerned about allergies, but I am not sure there is much to worry about. I am way more concerned about the presence of hormones in many foods.

I am not sure about specific studies. Europeans are generally more opposed to genetic engineering. There are a lot of emotions involved.

Tailwinds
04-07-2013, 09:28 PM
I think with GMO the biggest problem is the business model. Monsanto basically tries to get a monopoly for selling their seeds. Then, of course, you are going to spread those manipulated genes throughout the wild population. Over time, everything will e.g. be resistant to round-up. A lot of people are also concerned about allergies, but I am not sure there is much to worry about. I am way more concerned about the presence of hormones in many foods.

I am not sure about specific studies. Europeans are generally more opposed to genetic engineering. There are a lot of emotions involved.

Lolo, it sounds like you know a lot about these issues so thank you for sharing your knowledge. The things we are letting our food and other industries do to us and our environment is frightening. Demanding transparency seems a good place to start. Hence my issues with Ideal Protein.

td20
04-07-2013, 09:38 PM
There is more than one issue that my affect your health in North America, I would think years of poor life choices would be a greater risk than a short period of time on IP!

1.
Cancer
Lung cancer is the cancer responsible for the most deaths in both men and women. Women are also affected greatly by breast and colorectal cancers, according to the Mayo Clinic. Reduce your risk of cancers by not smoking, eating a healthy diet, using sunscreen and getting regular cancer screenings.

Stroke
Stroke is the number three cause of death in women, and the number four cause of death in men. Lifestyle changes that can reduce your risk of stroke, according to the Mayo Clinic, include quitting smoking, losing excess weight, exercising and eating a healthy diet

Respiratory Diseases
Respiratory diseases such as bronchitis and emphysema belong to a class of diseases called COPD, or chronic obstructive pulmonary disease. The National Heart, Lung and Blood Institute recommends quitting smoking to prevent COPD, as it is the largest risk factor.

Injuries
According to the Mayo Clinic, the Centers for Disease Control states that the leading cause of fatal injuries in both men and women is motor vehicle accidents. Wearing your seatbelt, driving safely and not mixing alcohol and driving can prevent these accidents. Other causes of fatal accidents include poisoning and falls.

Diabetes
Type 2 diabetes can cause kidney damage, heart disease and blindness. It is also a leading cause of death in both men and women. Lose extra weight, exercise and eat a healthy diet to prevent diabetes.


Alzheimer's Disease
Alzheimer's disease is the fifth-leading cause of death in women, and the tenth in men. Doctors do not know exactly what causes Alzheimer's disease, but there may be a link between this disease and heart disease, as well as head injuries.


Influenza and Pneumonia
Most healthy people can fight off a simple case of influenza, but in some people, it may cause complications such as pneumonia, which are potentially fatal. Wash your hands frequently and get a flu vaccine each year as recommended by your doctor. Also, ask your doctor if a pneumonia vaccine is right for you.


Kidney Disease
Kidney disease is the ninth-leading cause of death for both male and female Americans. It can be caused by high blood pressure or diabetes, according to the Mayo Clinic. The American Diabetes Association stresses the importance of keeping your blood sugar under control if you are a diabetic in order to prevent kidney disease.


Septicemia
Septicemia, or blood poisoning is the tenth-leading cause of death among women. It is usually a complication of a bacterial infection such as a lung or urinary tract infection. The best ways to prevent septicemia are to wash your hands often, seek medical care for any infections in the body and to change tampons often and avoid using tampons that are more absorbent than you need



Read more: http://www.livestrong.com/article/36536-top-health-problems-america/#ixzz2PpMv7T3M

Lolo70
04-07-2013, 09:43 PM
Tailwinds:
I think you could simply follow JohnP's advice or follow the Atkins induction diet. I also think IP is not the best way of eating, though I am more concerned about the amount of soy. I have been eating this stuff now for about a year. It is convenient. I hope to be finished with it by the end of this year and will probably eat a more Paleo style of diet. It is easy to reduce carbs if you eat meat. Otherwise it takes a bit more planning.