Atkins - Has anyone gone zero carb (in terms of no veg)?




California17
03-12-2013, 12:31 PM
I've been reading about the '72 original diet on another forum, and from what I can gather (haven't read the book in years), Dr. Atkins almost preaches no vegetables so that full ketosis can be reached very quickly. As we all know, the body burns carbs first, so when they're at a bare minimum from the meats, eggs, and cheeses one consumes, spilling ketones and burning fat should happen very quickly and steadily.

Anyone gone down that route? I can't imagine eating no vegetables to be honest. But this might be an interesting thing to experiment with for those who are stalling, whether real or imagined :dizzy:


California17
03-12-2013, 01:41 PM
Am I allowed to post things said on other forums here? Found something interesting, but I'm new and don't know the etiquette...

wannaskipandlaugh
03-12-2013, 01:59 PM
I think you can post anything as long as its not vulgar, or trying to sell something so post away.

I do very LOOOWWWWW carb veggie wise. I have 2 cups of lettuce every other day, otherwise its meat, cheese, butter, spices, eggs (every day). I do treat myself to Low Carb marinara sauce 2 times a week (3 carbs for 1/2 cup - Rao's). I do not like veggies.. so it works for me and yes I am in Ketosis all the time :) To bulk up my fiber tho (so that the intestines are happy campers) I take fiber tablets and they seem to work for me

Hope you are doing well and I saw from your other post that you have lost lbs Yeah for you!!


California17
03-12-2013, 02:06 PM
Hi wannaskipandlaugh! Things are going well. Waiting for a whoosh though (aren't we all inpatient?).

So here's a diet a woman on another forum did. She lost 38 lbs in 6 weeks.

"FOODS

Meat (except liver and liver sausage)
Fish (except wine sauce herring)
Seafood (except oysters)
Poultry (nothing to be breaded or floured,
No BBQ sauce or catsup)
Eggs (fixed any way)
Natural Cheese (with wax around)
(No cottage cheese, processed or yogurt)
Butter, Oleo
Fat
Salt/Pepper and other seasonings
Artificial Sweetners
Mustard & Horseradish
Mayonnaise *
Sour Cream Dressing *
Low Calorie Dressing * w/no sugar
Mushrooms (1T)
Beef or Chicken boullion broth
(No other soups)

*These items contain 2 cal. Of sugar per Tablespoon – DO NOT use excessively
** If desired as often as listed

Fried Pork Rinds (can be used as breading)
Sugar Free Gum (NO sugar free candy or other dietetic foods)
Cool Whip topping *
D-Zerta Jello and D-Zerta topping
Plain Knox Gelatin and sugar free kool-aid (mix together to make jello)
1C of lettuce (twice a day) **
NO OTHER VEGETABLES
NO FRUIT


BEVERAGES

Water (1/2 your weight in oz.)
Sugar Free Soda
Sugar Free Kool-Aid
Black Coffee and tea
Hard Liquor: (NO wine except dry vermouth, NO apricot brandy, drambouye, Southern Comfort, Liquorers)
NO regular beer
Lite Beer OK – Micholob Lite or Miller Lite"

I've been reading up on the 72' version and here are two things that caught my eye;

1. Veggies are limited to two cups of loose greens a day (with added cucumbers, celery, and radishes) and off course oils and sauces.
2. Caffeine is limited to 6 servings a day. Doesn't specify decaf, and is limited to 3 servings a day for people who are sensitive to sugar.

Hope this helps anyone stalling...

TripSwitch
03-12-2013, 02:27 PM
I just recently bought a collectible hardcover first edition of DADR to add to my diet book "collection" and as far as carbs go it allows 2 cups of salad a day and that's pretty much it... which Dr. Atkin's considered to basically be zero carb... and you do that for a week and then you can start adding back in carbs... so pretty straight forward and it allows you the flexibility to decide which carbs you add back first while you're finding your CCL...

I like Atkins '72... it's old school... and it definitely works if you follow it... but you can also find diets that where basically low carb going back to the 19th century, so the principle behind it has a fair amount of history... I don't know if you've read Taubes or not, but he goes into all that detail which is kind of interesting whether you believe him or not...

And although I wouldn't recommend it from what I've read a 48hr fast will put you right into ketosis and is actually how some of the low carb diets that were around in the 1950's would start out...

wannaskipandlaugh
03-12-2013, 02:51 PM
California..... Be careful about the artificial sweetners too. They do count as carbs (1 per packet) and they (on alot of people) have a tendency to slow weight loss (I have found that out when I replaced water for my Pinky Ice Tea - sweetNLow and Crystal Light as they slowed my weight loss down alot!)

But otherwise the list looks good. I think the cheeses need to be HARD cheeses not soft :)

synger
03-12-2013, 03:53 PM
2. Caffeine is limited to 6 servings a day. Doesn't specify decaf, and is limited to 3 servings a day for people who are sensitive to sugar.



I could do this... so long as the servings were like this:








http://1funny.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/01/big-cup-of-coffee.jpg

California17
03-12-2013, 04:07 PM
First time I did Atkins a few years ago, I don't remember eating any vegetables. I recall a lot of cheeses, cold cuts, red wine, and franks dipped in mayo. Like I've mentioned, the weight melted off.

Regarding artificial sweeteners, I drink my coffee unsweetened and don't do any low carb desserts so I don't consume any. The only packaged stuff I eat is mayo and tuna in olive oil so I shouldn't be getting too much from those sources.

I would be interested in doing this during a stall...

Did anyone notice the beer on the beverage list? What a joke (for me anyway).

Jez
03-12-2013, 04:10 PM
I could do this... so long as the servings were like this:








http://1funny.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/01/big-cup-of-coffee.jpg
Like.
(Because I hate when I see a post I like, and I just want to give it a thumbs up.)

TripSwitch
03-12-2013, 04:34 PM
If you are following Dr. Atkins books then it has vegetables... Even Atkins '72 has some vegetables... the 2 cups of salad a day and that's only for the first week... then you can start increasing carbs... I would recommend taking a look at DANDR (2002 or earlier) or DADR (Atkins '72)... I know some people don't like NANY... But those plans work too if you follow them....

Unfortunately, it seems like a lot of people don't go "by the book" as it's written and either eat too much protein or not enough fat or both and when they run into problems they wonder why "Atkins" doesn't work for them... But most of the time if you look closely at what they're eating they usually aren't following the plan as written and laid out in Dr. Atkins books...

California17
03-12-2013, 04:43 PM
I wonder if I could decrease my vegetables to the two loose salads a day, and bring back cheese (evil laugh).

I'm a big believer in self experimentation. What works for one won't necessarily work for all. I'm following the '72 fairly closely, with maybe a bit more salad than recommended. I do like the free reign on eggs and eat up to six for lunch.

Jez
03-12-2013, 05:01 PM
I don't think there's anything wrong with people experimenting to find what works for them. But then they just need to make sure not to use any labels they don't fit, because that is what spreads misinformation and confusion.

TripSwitch
03-12-2013, 05:23 PM
I wonder if I could decrease my vegetables to the two loose salads a day, and bring back cheese (evil laugh).

I'm a big believer in self experimentation. What works for one won't necessarily work for all. I'm following the '72 fairly closely, with maybe a bit more salad than recommended. I do like the free reign on eggs and eat up to six for lunch.

Atkins '72 allows up to 4oz of any hard, aged cheese a day... and up to only 4 tsps of heavy cream a day... for that first week of level one... There was no "induction" back then... Just levels 1 - 5....

California17
03-13-2013, 02:17 AM
Spot on Jez! I try to say Atkins-like to my friends. I'm not ashamed at all, and almost dare them to try tell me off because I have info and research in my arsenal ;)

I'm going to keep experimenting till I find my carb sweet spot for as continuous weightloss as possible. Down another 2.4 pounds overnight which makes it 12.4 and this is the beginning of day 9 (actually day 8 cause I totally cheated on day 1).

California17
03-13-2013, 02:43 AM
This is my 20th post ;) does that mean I can FINALLY get a ticker?

*happy dance*

marigrace
03-13-2013, 05:29 AM
I remember reading one of the Atkins books that advised a macadamia nut fast for breaking stalls. Was that the '72 book ?

synger
03-13-2013, 08:18 AM
I described my diet to someone, and he said, "So it's Atkins?". I said no, about 100 years older than that, more like Banting...

And I left it at that.

California17
03-13-2013, 11:30 AM
can a kind soul help me with organising a weight tracker? i would be eternally grateful...

StephanieM
03-14-2013, 10:11 PM
California, go to the help section of the forum, there is a thread for tickers. It links to the sites where you can get tickers from and tells you how to add them :)

California17
03-17-2013, 05:11 AM
Thanks Stephanie :) as you can see I did it!

Today I will eat the remaining cabbage I have in the fridge, and from tomorrow for two weeks, I'm going full on Atkins 72'. Will buy a few heads of lettuce and some cucumber today at the market.

I lost 11 pounds first week, and this second one, a mere 1 and a bit. It is TOM and it's a very weird and light TOM at that. I've had a bit of discomfort down there for days before TOM. I wonder if it has something to do with the diet...

Melsie52
03-18-2013, 05:33 PM
Hello,
I started on Induction today after many years not on Atkins. It is the only way to go for me. I do get my two salads a day and eat very well with that. So far so good. I will report back to let you know how I do. I am doing this without scales as they are still packed away from our move here in Florida. I will be weighed next month at the doctors for my physical.

Love to meet you all and glad to be here. :hug:

Melanie

wannaskipandlaugh
03-18-2013, 06:07 PM
:welcome2: Melsie :)

I am on the opposite side of Florida from you.. Port St. Lucie/Stuart area :)
and we can do it. I have been sticking very close to 72 Atkins since 1/6 and have been averaging almost 2 lbs a week. Its the inches that are making me smile tho :) Let us know how you are doing and tell us the good news! (and I hope the unpacking is easier than you thought!)

California17
03-19-2013, 01:12 AM
Hi Melanie,

Welcome and keep us posted. 72' is really the way to go....

firegirl441
03-20-2013, 12:46 AM
California17 asked "I lost 11 pounds first week, and this second one, a mere 1 and a bit. It is TOM and it's a very weird and light TOM at that. I've had a bit of discomfort down there for days before TOM. I wonder if it has something to do with the diet..."

Back in 2006 I used Atkin's very strictly to lose 86 lbs in 9 months. I did notice that it affected my periods in much the same way you described.

California17
03-20-2013, 04:05 AM
@firegirl, i basically had it for a day and a bit. super weird. let's see what happens next month :)

i'm on week 3, day 3, and i've reached the dread post induction plateau. i'm going for a massive walk!

xxx

janie275
03-25-2013, 08:56 PM
Do you know why there is a restriction of 4 tsp of heavy whipping cream?

Only ask because I thought that if you whipped it too long, you would end up with butter and butter is unlimited.

TripSwitch
03-25-2013, 10:10 PM
Do you know why there is a restriction of 4 tsp of heavy whipping cream?

Only ask because I thought that if you whipped it too long, you would end up with butter and butter is unlimited.

In the chapter "The Revolutionary Never-Hungry No-Limit Steak-And-Salad-Plus Diet" of DANDR (Atkins '72) which has the food list for the first week it just lists "HEAVY CREAM... Four teaspoons a day. (Cream has less carbohydrate than milk - so don't use milk.)"... So that's directly from the book and I guess that's the rationale behind it...

canadianwoman
03-30-2013, 06:52 AM
Do you know why there is a restriction of 4 tsp of heavy whipping cream?

Only ask because I thought that if you whipped it too long, you would end up with butter and butter is unlimited.

I think Dr. Atkins was trying to keep any carbs as low as possible.

mamarozi
05-02-2013, 02:57 AM
Do you know why there is a restriction of 4 tsp of heavy whipping cream?

Only ask because I thought that if you whipped it too long, you would end up with butter and butter is unlimited.
You end up with butter and some liquid. Butter is where the fat goes, liquid is where the carbs go.

Renniekins
05-07-2013, 02:09 PM
I did the no veggie thing once, and will likely do it again at some point (in this be-all-end-all attempt at getting fit, lol!)

When I did it, I did the same thing as wannaskipandlaugh, I had a fibre supplement. And I did lose quite a bit of weight. But I only had no veggies for a day or two, then I would have some.

Somehow, I just felt cleaner and healthier on the inside having some veggies in my system, instead of just meat and cheese. I don't think it's a good idea right at the beginning though, because of how you feel right when you cut out breads and stuff. Veggies, I think, help you feel satisfied and more, "alive" instead of tired and out of it.

CanadainChick
05-29-2013, 02:25 PM
I hardly do veggies, not really because of their carbs but because I've never liked them, I do take Ultra Fiber - Fiber With Psyllium and Prune supplement daily though which if going by mfp numbers gives 2 grams of fiber per tablet.
And I do 6-9 a day, 2/3 tablets before each meal and never had any issues moving "stuff" out :o

Fell of the low carb wagon and just restarted again on Monday :)

franciejones
05-29-2013, 03:38 PM
I have been getting only about 1% carbs...and it has been very little veg. I tend to lose better when my fat percentage is above 75%...and when I do that I naturally fall to much lower carbs...maybe 10 per day..

charliebear99
05-30-2013, 11:41 PM
Wow. You all just inspired me to read the 72 book.:)

kaplods
05-31-2013, 12:11 AM
The research of psmf (protein-sparing modified fasts, as Atkins is generally considered) seems to suggest that rate of weight loss is actually positively correlated with fruit and veggie servings (those eating the most freggies tended to lose the most). I'll see if I can find the actual study citations - I believe I saw it on the Medifast or HMR site.

I know that protein poisoning (also called rabbit starvation) can occur with a low-carb diet if zero carb is paired with low fat, and other nutritional deficiencies can occur with a lean, all-muscle diet (fat, skin, blood, organ meats, and bone broths and even bones themselves, such as those in canned sardines should be included).

At the very least, I would consider taking a vitamin and mineral supplement with a folic acid or folate, and maybe even one of the phytonutrient supplements.

Zoos are finding that even true carnivores become ill on an all meat diet if it's composed of only fat and muscle meat. The skin and innards are important.