Weight Loss Support - Why are you allowed more calories when maintaining??




Doomkitty
02-05-2013, 10:58 AM
Without knowing your age - I kept it the same as mine, 24 - my calculator says you can eat no more than 1655 without exercising to maintain. To lose a pound a week at 145, you'd have to eat no more than 1209. Again, without exercise so you'd be cutting it close.


GotothegymOKAY
02-05-2013, 07:27 PM
I am so confused.

I calculated that at 145 to lose a pound a week, you are allowed 1500 calories.

But to maintain at 135, you are allowed 1900.

I don't understand!

elvislover324
02-05-2013, 07:33 PM
When losing weight, you need a calorie deficit (and/or burn exercise calories). Maintenace requires no surplus and no deficit. So in a nutshell, you will start eating your deficit. :)


StephanieM
02-05-2013, 09:26 PM
The amount you came up with seems quite low, even if you aren't exercising. Are you just checking bmr and not multiplying by activity level?

For me, lifting 3 times a week it's about 2200 to maintain. I eat at 1630 to lose. I'm 164ish lbs and 5'4. As I get more muscle I will be able to eat more.

Doomkitty
02-05-2013, 09:43 PM
The amount you came up with seems quite low, even if you aren't exercising. Are you just checking bmr and not multiplying by activity level?

For me, lifting 3 times a week it's about 2200 to maintain. I eat at 1630 to lose. I'm 164ish lbs and 5'4. As I get more muscle I will be able to eat more.

My numbers or the OP's? My thread is displaying kind of weird...

Just in case, I use this: http://www.caloriesperhour.com/index_burn.php

Weight: 135
Height: 5'6"
Age: 24 (guessed)
Sedentary RMR: 1655
Sedentary BMR: 1726

Weight: 145
Height: 5'6"
Age: 24
Sedentary RMR: 1709
Sedentary BMR: 1778

I've never really understood the difference between RMR and BMR... I use RMR just because the number is a bit lower and I'm still trying to lose with really a minimal amount of exercise. Too freaking cold out...

freelancemomma
02-05-2013, 10:57 PM
I am so confused.

I calculated that at 145 to lose a pound a week, you are allowed 1500 calories.

But to maintain at 135, you are allowed 1900.

I don't understand!

To lose weight, you have to eat less than your body needs (so it will use your fat stores for energy). To maintain, you have to eat as much as your body needs. Hence the difference in calories.

F.

bargoo
02-05-2013, 11:22 PM
If you continue to eat less calories you will continue to lose. To maintain your loss add more calories.

JohnP
02-06-2013, 12:18 AM
As I get more muscle I will be able to eat more.

Technically you're right. A lb of muscle uses about 6 calories per lb per 24 hour period. (While a lb of fat uses 2.)

If you by miracle of genetics and hard work manage to put on 20lbs of muscle in the next 2 years you can eat 40 more calories per day if you don't lose any fat.

The idea that muscle burns a lot of calories is wrong.

StephanieM
02-06-2013, 10:08 AM
Technically you're right. A lb of muscle uses about 6 calories per lb per 24 hour period. (While a lb of fat uses 2.)

If you by miracle of genetics and hard work manage to put on 20lbs of muscle in the next 2 years you can eat 40 more calories per day if you don't lose any fat.

The idea that muscle burns a lot of calories is wrong.


I know building muscle is difficult, especially for women. I lift and I plan on doing it long term so I'm hoping to build over the years through some bulk and cut cycles once I get to my goal weight.

berryblondeboys
02-06-2013, 10:13 AM
Technically you're right. A lb of muscle uses about 6 calories per lb per 24 hour period. (While a lb of fat uses 2.)

If you by miracle of genetics and hard work manage to put on 20lbs of muscle in the next 2 years you can eat 40 more calories per day if you don't lose any fat.

The idea that muscle burns a lot of calories is wrong.

Has me wondering then why there is this new push to gain more muscle - to do strength training as much as doing cardio? This whole notion of burning more fat for longer.

I do a mix of both as I enjoy both, but I'm starting to wonder if cardio, in the end, will give me more bang for the buck and it's not like you don't gain muscle while running or walking, or swimming, etc.

LockItUp
02-06-2013, 10:14 AM
I'm weighing in maintaining between 137-139. I've been able to eat around 2300, working out about 30 mins a day alternating cardio and lifting. Obviously if I wanted to lose more I'd have to create a deficit, therefore having to eat below that 2300.

berryblondeboys
02-06-2013, 10:17 AM
And this whole maintenance calorie thing is interesting.

I know some women (who exercise) who have to drastically increase their caloric intake to keep from continuing their weight loss.

I know other women (who exercise) who stay at the lower calorie range (around 1600) to be able to keep the weight off. Basically, very slowly got to a stable weight and just stayed there.

Wonder why that is?

Quite honestly, I don't see how I'll ever be able to eat more than 1600 calories a day with exercising 4-5 times a week for an hour. I barely lose with 1400 calories and 5-6 days a week of exercise.

Rana
02-06-2013, 10:53 AM
And this whole maintenance calorie thing is interesting.

I know some women (who exercise) who have to drastically increase their caloric intake to keep from continuing their weight loss.

I know other women (who exercise) who stay at the lower calorie range (around 1600) to be able to keep the weight off. Basically, very slowly got to a stable weight and just stayed there.

Wonder why that is?

Quite honestly, I don't see how I'll ever be able to eat more than 1600 calories a day with exercising 4-5 times a week for an hour. I barely lose with 1400 calories and 5-6 days a week of exercise.

I suspect this will be the case.

If what JohnP is saying is true, then muscle is really about making you more insulin sensitive, rather than actually giving you MORE calories to consume.

The thing is, I do think the body is a tricky thing and what works for "normal" (whoever they are) people is very different that may work for you or I (I also have IR with PCOS).

I suspect that I won't be able to eat 2200 and maintain, regardless of my exercise.

I think to maintain, I will be at 1600 or lower, despite my activity level and height. That's what I eat to maintain 163-165. If I want to lose weight, I have to eat a lot less (and low carb at that).

JohnP
02-06-2013, 11:24 AM
If what I'm saying is true? Sheesh ... :D

My math was wrong though. 20lbs of muscle burns 120 calories.

That's not to say that weight training isn't extremely beneficial, it is. A large number of reasons but increasing your BMR isn't one of them.

eliza422
02-06-2013, 12:00 PM
And this whole maintenance calorie thing is interesting.

I know some women (who exercise) who have to drastically increase their caloric intake to keep from continuing their weight loss.

I know other women (who exercise) who stay at the lower calorie range (around 1600) to be able to keep the weight off. Basically, very slowly got to a stable weight and just stayed there.

Wonder why that is?

Quite honestly, I don't see how I'll ever be able to eat more than 1600 calories a day with exercising 4-5 times a week for an hour. I barely lose with 1400 calories and 5-6 days a week of exercise.

I think this happens because we have been overweight and lost weight - and our metabolism is permanently changed because of it. It's really what makes the regain so likely...

If you read the refuse to regain website ( http://www.refusetoregain.com/ ), by a doctor who specializes in obesity, she refers to people as "never been overweight" - and they have a very different metabolic profile than those that are "previously overweight". POs can never eat like NBOs because of the metabolic changes we've been through.

Exercise can help some, but I think it depends on the type - and I think the weight bearing / muscle building has a better effect...

It's science that's still in its infancy, really...

JohnP
02-06-2013, 02:02 PM
Eliza,

Can you link to some of the specifc articles where she discusses this topic? (If you know where they are) She has a lot of articles ...

From the research I have seen there seems to be an adaptation that formerly obese people have. It's not an issue of metabolisms being slower - but that SPA and NEAT are reduced. Purposeful activity can make up for this quite easily though, you just need to make it a part of your life.

For health reasons, it's a good idea to be active anyways.

lin43
02-06-2013, 07:00 PM
Technically you're right. A lb of muscle uses about 6 calories per lb per 24 hour period. (While a lb of fat uses 2.)

If you by miracle of genetics and hard work manage to put on 20lbs of muscle in the next 2 years you can eat 40 more calories per day if you don't lose any fat.

The idea that muscle burns a lot of calories is wrong.



. . . I'm starting to wonder if cardio, in the end, will give me more bang for the buck and it's not like you don't gain muscle while running or walking, or swimming, etc.

I have thought the above for quite some time. Here's an interesting article on the subject that I posted a while back:

http://articles.latimes.com/2011/may/16/health/la-he-fitness-muscle-myth-20110516

I find weight lifting boring except when done in the context of circuit training or in a group fitness class. I try to do that 2-3 times a week because regardless of calorie burn, I like the toned look that comes from weight lifting.

JohnP
02-06-2013, 09:01 PM
James Fell is not an expert. He only has published articles because his writing style is funny.

Fortunately - he is right because he gets his information from experts.

eliza422
02-07-2013, 11:15 AM
I went through the archives and pulled out a few articles. Now a caveat - she is a proponent of Primarian/Paleo style eating - essentially no carbs - so that colors her articles.

However, she gives what I think is a very clear, if difficult to swallow, take on what maintenance will be for the majority of us. On the other hand, I'd rather go into it knowing what I'm up against rather than with a la-dee-da attitude.

http://www.refusetoregain.com/2008/05/the-case-against-calories.html
http://www.refusetoregain.com/2008/12/how-is-your-ibm-doing.html
http://www.refusetoregain.com/2008/10/your-metabolism-after-weight-loss.html
http://www.refusetoregain.com/2012/11/planning-for-maintenance-what-to-do-while-youre-losing-weight.html
http://www.refusetoregain.com/2010/04/exercise-and-weight-loss-the-conversation-goes-on.html
http://www.refusetoregain.com/2009/09/the-baby-the-bathwater-.html
http://www.refusetoregain.com/2009/08/muscle-its-the-real-deal--by-barbara-berkeley--the-common-wisdom-tells-you-to-build-it-most-people-think-they-dont-ha.html
http://www.refusetoregain.com/2011/11/the-last-twenty-pounds-a-common-dieters-dilemma.html

I hope these help!

JohnP
02-07-2013, 12:57 PM
I hope these help!

Oh boy ... I don't know if I can wade through ... I had to stop reading the first article when I read this ...

"Eating carbohydrates requires that your body make hefty amounts of insulin. Eating fats and proteins do not stimulate the body to make significant insulin."

Since this is not true ... and a basic fact ... no matter how useful her information may be to people I can only read people who get basic science write.

I figured I'll keep reading and then I got to this gem...

"When you have a lot of insulin around, particularly if you have had a tendency to store fat in the past, you begin to divert a lot of your food into the fat cells."

Protein causes insulin to be released and when fed in equal amounts protein can stimulate more insulin to be released and fat is stored by humans whenever it gets the chance - insulin does not need to be plentiful. The only "food" that is stored as fat in humans (for the most part) is fat ... as we already covered.

I can't read any more. I'm sure she has helped many people lose fat and keep it off, but I can't read any more. Reading "experts" who get basic facts wrong makes me want to poke my eyes out.

freelancemomma
02-07-2013, 01:45 PM
POs can never eat like NBOs because of the metabolic changes we've been through.

Even that is variable. I've yo-yoed several times in my life (30-to-60-pound range), but my maintenance caloric requirements haven't changed beyond the slight decline to be expected from aging.

F.

lin43
02-07-2013, 06:42 PM
James Fell is not an expert. He only has published articles because his writing style is funny.

Fortunately - he is right because he gets his information from experts.

Oh, definitely. I tend to gravitate toward writers who can put the science together for me in an engaging way (e.g., Malcolm Gladwell). Of course, I occasionally consult peer-reviewed journals, but most of the time, I'm not curious enough to wade through all the jargon unless I have to.

JohnP
02-07-2013, 09:24 PM
Oh, definitely. I tend to gravitate toward writers who can put the science together for me in an engaging way (e.g., Malcolm Gladwell). Of course, I occasionally consult peer-reviewed journals, but most of the time, I'm not curious enough to wade through all the jargon unless I have to.

Check out Alan Aragon and/or James Krieger. Sadly - both of them have gone to pay to read their stuff model but they do have plenty of free stuff available.