Ideal Protein Diet - Should I do IP?




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HGantt
01-12-2013, 01:38 PM
Hello all,

I've been debating starting Ideal Protein for a couple months now, mostly because I tried Nutrisystem before, and that was an expensive mistake! I don't want to make another expensive mistake!

But my main question is that since I only have 35 pounds to lose, will Ideal Protein work for me? I'm 5'0" and weigh 145ih currently (I waver between 140 and 150).

I'm going to a seminar this week at my local Ideal Protein place. The seminar is a requirement before starting it.. I'm kind of nervous and I know that there are amazing testimonies out there about it, but because I have less to lose I'm just wondering.

Any input would be helpful and super appreciated!


NinjaNurse
01-12-2013, 01:57 PM
Hello!! Go to the seminar and see if it for you. It all depends on what you are looking for. One of the 1st people I know on IP only had to lose about 40lbs.

We are here when/if you need us!!

PamC
01-12-2013, 02:13 PM
I'm looking to lose about 35 pounds. I'm in my second week and it's going well. I got talked into doing IP. One of my best friends is doing it, and we share an office together and are usually bad influences on each other as we're both foodies, love to cook, go out to eat, etc. I wanted to do Weight Watchers, as I've done it before and know it works...if you stick to the plan. My friend Jen reminded me that we've tried WW a few times over the past few years and it hasn't worked for us because we haven't stuck to it. It's too easy to get off track and hard to catch up. We fell into the routine of losing 2 or 3 during the week and putting them back on over the weekend.

So, I agreed to try IP. It definitely takes some getting used to. The first week is the hardest, but after the initial weigh in, I started feeling better and was encouraged to see the scale move down and inches off.

What I like about IP is that it's a very clear plan with limited choices...which for me is good as it keeps me on track. I had never even heard of IP, but my friend's friend, who is a nurse, has lost almost 30 pounds on it and is another person looking to lose about 30-35 pounds, like Jen and myself.

So, it seems to me like there are a lot of people doing IP that are looking to lose 30-40 pounds. So far, I am down almost 10 pounds (my second weigh-in is on Tuesday, but my home scale is making me happy til then) and I've lost 3 inches off my waist. That happened this week.

See what you think at the seminar. IP may be a good idea for you, or not.

Good luck!
Pam


JohnP
01-12-2013, 02:13 PM
Whether you do the IP diet or not you should educate yourself on how fat loss or gain works and the IP diet is terrible in this regard. Fortunately Three Fat Chicks is a fantastic resource so you should stick around whether you chose to do the IP diet, or not.

In my opinion the reason for the seminar is not to educate you about the IP diet it is to sell you on the IP diet and I am willing to bet they will have a special price if you sign up on the spot. Nothing wrong with this except that I'm fairly certain they're going to be making some lofty claims and seriously misleading you about how fat loss works.

Be aware; there is nothing special about the IP diet nor the IP products. The protocol works because it restricts calories. The only reason in my opinon to sign up for the IP diet is if your local clinic provides excellent coaching and you're the kind of person who heavily benefits from in person coaching and accountability. From what I've seen the information you'll get here is significantly better than what most clinics provide.

Personally, if I was going to follow the IP protocol, I would do it with alternative products.

bubbleblower
01-12-2013, 02:14 PM
When I started, I had 27 pounds to lose to get to my goal weight. After about 5 weeks, I'm about halfway there. I learned over the last couple of years that nothing else worked for me. This does.

I had a couple of friends who had great results with IP last year. They each had about 40 pounds to lose. After seeing their results, I got on the program the next week and never looked back.

tam67green
01-12-2013, 02:17 PM
Whether you do the IP diet or not you should educate yourself on how fat loss or gain works and the IP diet is terrible in this regard. Fortunately Three Fat Chicks is a fantastic resource so you should stick around whether you chose to do the IP diet, or not.

In my opinion the reason for the seminar is not to educate you about the IP diet it is to sell you on the IP diet and I am willing to bet they will have a special price if you sign up on the spot. Nothing wrong with this except that I'm fairly certain they're going to be making some lofty claims and seriously misleading you about how fat loss works.

Be aware; there is nothing special about the IP diet nor the IP products. The protocol works because it restricts calories. The only reason in my opinon to sign up for the IP diet is if your local clinic provides excellent coaching and you're the kind of person who heavily benefits from in person coaching and accountability. From what I've seen the information you'll get here is significantly better than what most clinics provide.

Personally, if I was going to follow the IP protocol, I would do it with alternative products.

Just curious: why would you choose alternatives? If you listen to the "propoganda", IP products are superior because they use superior ingredients--hence the higher cost.

PamC
01-12-2013, 02:20 PM
Whether you do the IP diet or not you should educate yourself on how fat loss or gain works and the IP diet is terrible in this regard. Fortunately Three Fat Chicks is a fantastic resource so you should stick around whether you chose to do the IP diet, or not.

In my opinion the reason for the seminar is not to educate you about the IP diet it is to sell you on the IP diet and I am willing to bet they will have a special price if you sign up on the spot. Nothing wrong with this except that I'm fairly certain they're going to be making some lofty claims and seriously misleading you about how fat loss works.

Be aware; there is nothing special about the IP diet nor the IP products. The protocol works because it restricts calories. The only reason in my opinon to sign up for the IP diet is if your local clinic provides excellent coaching and you're the kind of person who heavily benefits from in person coaching and accountability. From what I've seen the information you'll get here is significantly better than what most clinics provide.

Personally, if I was going to follow the IP protocol, I would do it with alternative products.

Actually, IP is not just about calories. There definitely IS something special about the diet and products. They are designed to be low carb and low fat with just the right amount of protein. The body burns carbohydrates for energy first, and this diet restricts carbs so that the body has to turn to alternate sources for fuel. When you are in a state of ketosis, which is what this is designed to do, you will be burning your own body fat, so it's like your body gets extra calories by consuming that fat. That's why you will see more rapid weight loss and especially inches on this diet.

I'm a bit of a nervous nellie about anything medical or health wise and always read the fine print. I researched this heavily before deciding to do it.

JohnP
01-12-2013, 02:26 PM
Just curious: why would you choose alternatives? If you listen to the "propoganda", IP products are superior because they use superior ingredients--hence the higher cost.

They don't use superior ingredients. I've covered this in detail before but all you have to do is read what the products contain and you'll see there is nothing superior about them.

That said - some people really benefit from in person coaching and accountability so if the local clinic provides good coaching it is well worth paying for.

If not - you're paying additional dollars for nothing - in my opinion.

HGantt
01-12-2013, 02:29 PM
Thank you all for the encouragement, I know about three people that have told me to try it but two had to lose 70 pounds and the other wanted to lose 90. I just wanted to make sure that it would be okay to for someone that only wants to lose 35. I'm glad that there are people speaking up that wanted/needed to the lose the same amount as me, it makes me feel so much more comfortable! I do think I am going to try it out after what I learn at the seminar.
I understand that they just might want to sell me on it, but I've been a sales person for five years, I know how to handle myself. But I thank you John. :)
I might do it with alternative products to try and save some money but that is pending more research. I'm so glad I found 3 Fat Chicks! Seems like such an awesome community! Thank you again!

JohnP
01-12-2013, 02:35 PM
Actually, IP is not just about calories. There definitely IS something special about the diet and products. They are designed to be low carb and low fat with just the right amount of protein. The body burns carbohydrates for energy first, and this diet restricts carbs so that the body has to turn to alternate sources for fuel. When you are in a state of ketosis, which is what this is designed to do, you will be burning your own body fat, so it's like your body gets extra calories by consuming that fat. That's why you will see more rapid weight loss and especially inches on this diet.

I'm a bit of a nervous nellie about anything medical or health wise and always read the fine print. I researched this heavily before deciding to do it.

I understand what you're saying and back in April 2009 I would have agreed with you. Since then I've done a significant amount of reading. Without boring you on the details I'll summarize some facts. Feel free to ask me to clarify any of these points.

The IP diet is a PSMF type of diet. (Google PSMF)

You only lose fat when you're in an energy deficit. Ketosis is not required for the body to burn off it's fat stores. The state of ketosis only means that your body has a lot of ketone bodies floating around. Ketosis provides some benefits of mood and energy in some people but you lose fat rapidly because you're not consuming many calories on the IP diet.

The "right amount" of protein to retain LBM is highly debateable even amoung experts but the IP diet protocol makes no differentiation between a 4'11" female and a 6'8" male for protein requirements so on that basis alone I am certain the IP protocol is not providing the body with "just the right amount"

This doesn't mean the IP diet doesn't work. It does work. It just doesn't work because of the reasons you're told when you sign up at the local clinic.

JohnP
01-12-2013, 02:39 PM
I understand that they just might want to sell me on it, but I've been a sales person for five years, I know how to handle myself. But I thank you John. :)

Cool. I've been in sales my entire life. One thing about any good salesperson though is that we're easily sold. That is what makes us good salespeople. We want to believe. :D

PamC
01-12-2013, 02:47 PM
I understand what you're saying and back in April 2009 I would have agreed with you. Since then I've done a significant amount of reading. Without boring you on the details I'll summarize some facts. Feel free to ask me to clarify any of these points.

The IP diet is a PSMF type of diet. (Google PSMF)

You only lose fat when you're in an energy deficit. Ketosis is not required for the body to burn off it's fat stores. The state of ketosis only means that your body has a lot of ketone bodies floating around. Ketosis provides some benefits of mood and energy in some people but you lose fat rapidly because you're not consuming many calories on the IP diet.

The "right amount" of protein to retain LBM is highly debateable even amoung experts but the IP diet protocol makes no differentiation between a 4'11" female and a 6'8" male for protein requirements so on that basis alone I am certain the IP protocol is not providing the body with "just the right amount"

This doesn't mean the IP diet doesn't work. It does work. It just doesn't work because of the reasons you're told when you sign up at the local clinic.

John,
Have you done IP? It's not just calories. It's the type of calories. It's a low carb diet. If you were to eat the same number of calories but more carbs, you wouldn't lose weight as fast because your metabolism would slow significantly as the body would read you as being in starvation mode and slow accordingly. Being in ketosis keeps your metabolism humming along.

I was very skeptical of IP. And I didn't go to the seminar. I did all my research before and decided to do it. It's not just IP, there are other similar diets that work largely by going low carb and entering a state of ketosis.

Is this necessary to lose weight? Of course not. You can totally lose weight by simply cutting calories and exercising more. But, for many people it's just not that simple. Following a diet like IP gives you some control and structure and many find that very helpful. It also allows for more rapid weight loss, which is why I'm doing it. If I did WW I'd lose if I stuck to the plan, but it would be slower and I just want it gone, now.

~Pam

PamC
01-12-2013, 02:49 PM
Cool. I've been in sales my entire life. One thing about any good salesperson though is that we're easily sold. That is what makes us good salespeople. We want to believe. :D

Ha! This is so true...I've been in sales my whole career and am an easy mark. :)

Chloe222
01-12-2013, 03:10 PM
Perhaps John or Pam can chime in on these points: IP (as I've read) rests your pancreas and by the time you reach phase 4, your pancreas should be functioning better, you'll have less insulin resistance and your metabolism will be reset.

John, do you think the claims listed above are true? Pam?

I don't have a coach (happily use alternatives), learned most of what I know about IP here (and thank all of you for that).

JohnP
01-12-2013, 03:30 PM
Pam -

I'm not saying any of the things you seem to think I'm saying. I don't think all calories are equal. I don't think all people will be successful cutting calories and exercising more (in fact most people won't succeed this way in my opinion). I'm not against the structure of the IP diet and I'm not against rapid fat loss.

However, I will point out that carbohydrates do not slow down anyone's metabolism. In people who are insulin resistant (extremely common in obese people) carbohydrates can affect the output side of the energy equation and cause them to burn fewer calories over all but it doesn't mean their BMR is affected. (http://www.bodyrecomposition.com/fat-loss/the-energy-balance-equation.html) Carbs are also the least satiating macronutrient and in many people refined carbs trigger cravings. This does not mean ketosis speeds up ones metabolism. To take it a step further, in insulin sensative people a low carb diet causes them to burn fewer calories because of how it affects the output side of their energy equation. (http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/20565999)

Finally - if you have any evidence that ketosis "keeps the metabolism humming along" by causing the body to not slow down one's metabolism in the face reduced calories I would be extremely interested in seeing it. This is simply not accurate, at all.

kaplods
01-12-2013, 03:38 PM
Just curious: why would you choose alternatives? If you listen to the "propoganda", IP products are superior because they use superior ingredients--hence the higher cost.


If you listen to the "propaganda," and that's a very big if. Like John, I researched Ideal Protein, Medifast, HMR and other plans, because I was considering them.

I carefully compared the supposedly "superior" ingredients, and found that Ideal Protein was no more superior than the other heavily markeded PSMFs and they were actually inferior to many off-the-shelf and whole-food alternatives.

What Ideal Protein is selling at a high premium isn't superior quality, it's brand-loyalty, simplicity, service, and in some cases more variety than other plans (but not as much variety as if you were to put together your own PSMF). You may consider the cost a good value, but I think it's important to know what exactly you're buying.

If you do a PSMF on your own (with or without low-carb, high-protein packaged convenience foods), you can do it with far superior ingredients and for far less money - but you do need to educate yourself a little on these ingredients and in nutrition in general (and by little, I mean only a few hours of reading. You don't need a degree in bariatric nutrition).

None of the prepackaged PSMF plans want you to know how easy it is to create your own as-good-or-better plan, so they all sell "magic." They imply that there's something in (or not in) their products that make them superior to the competition - and yet sometimes they're exactly the same products, made in the same facilities, and often even sold by the same company (It's my understanding that the company that makes Ideal Protein also makes one of the lower-cost competitors and the products are even in identical packaging except for the outer box).

Believe it or not, I'm not bashing Ideal Protein or people following the name-brand plan. Some people (including me) do much better when the have a more structured plan, and especially someone supervising a weekly weigh-in.

I'm struggling now with that, as I've given up my TOPS (weight loss group) membership because the group's practices were so counterproductive I couldn't in good conscience stay. So now I'm trying to build that structure myself.

Still, I find in unconscionable that advertising and marketing is allowed to be so misleading. Every product manufacturer claims that their product contains superior ingredients, down to ketchup made in a factory where a dozen brands are bottled (the only difference being the label) - each of those brands claiming to be made with superior ingredients than all the rest.

If you're comparing the ingredients and the nutrition labels, and sticking closely you should be able to duplicate the quality, success, and flavor-appeal of the name brand. It is more work, and you don't get built-in supevision, support, and accountability - but the results will be the same (assuming you've done a fair job of duplicating the calorie and carb content - obviously if you choose to deviate from the calorie and macro content of the plan you're attempting to mimic, your results will also be different).

And if you're willing to do just a little more work - reading and food preparation you can get superior flavor, results, and nutrition. You don't even have to use processed and prepackaged foods (though for myself too much whole-food cooking means too much food around the house and too many opportunities for eating off plan).

PamC
01-12-2013, 03:45 PM
Perhaps John or Pam can chime in on these points: IP (as I've read) rests your pancreas and by the time you reach phase 4, your pancreas should be functioning better, you'll have less insulin resistance and your metabolism will be reset.

John, do you think the claims listed above are true? Pam?

I don't have a coach (happily use alternatives), learned most of what I know about IP here (and thank all of you for that).
Chloe, I don't really know if the pancreas will be functioning better.

Pam -

I'm not saying any of the things you seem to think I'm saying. I don't think all calories are equal. I don't think all people will be successful cutting calories and exercising more (in fact most people won't succeed this way in my opinion). I'm not against the structure of the IP diet and I'm not against rapid fat loss.

However, I will point out that carbohydrates do not slow down anyone's metabolism. In people who are insulin resistant (extremely common in obese people) carbohydrates can affect the output side of the energy equation and cause them to burn fewer calories over all but it doesn't mean their BMR is affected. (http://www.bodyrecomposition.com/fat-loss/the-energy-balance-equation.html) Carbs are also the least satiating macronutrient and in many people refined carbs trigger cravings. This does not mean ketosis speeds up ones metabolism. To take it a step further, in insulin sensative people a low carb diet causes them to burn fewer calories because of how it affects the output side of their energy equation. (http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/20565999)

Finally - if you have any evidence that ketosis "keeps the metabolism humming along" by causing the body to not slow down one's metabolism in the face reduced calories I would be extremely interested in seeing it. This is simply not accurate, at all.

John,
I'm not looking to get into a debate. All I know is that for this diet, it's important that your carbs be low. Raising them during the diet could slow weight loss and throw you out of ketosis.

JohnP
01-12-2013, 03:51 PM
Perhaps John or Pam can chime in on these points: IP (as I've read) rests your pancreas and by the time you reach phase 4, your pancreas should be functioning better, you'll have less insulin resistance and your metabolism will be reset.

John, do you think the claims listed above are true? Pam?

I don't have a coach (happily use alternatives), learned most of what I know about IP here (and thank all of you for that).

There are two points:

1) The IP diet rests your pancreas.

Any reduction in calories will reduce insulin output. Carbohydrates get the big rap for insulin release. In a vast over simplification - carbs cause insulin release, protein causes insulin release (whey protein causes the greatest insulin release ironically since IP products rely heavily on whey), and fat has a fairly negligible effect. Carbs + Protein causes the most insulin to be released into the system. I suggest anyone interested in insulin read this article.
(http://weightology.net/weightologyweekly/?page_id=319)

2) By the time you've reached phase four your pancreas will be functioning better.

This is true but misleading because when you reduce your fat stores you'll increase insulin sensativity regardless of how you lost the fat.

Bottom line - I am not bashing the IP diet. It works. It just doesn't work for the reasons they claim. Education is a wonderful thing - but if you're getting bad information you're not truly being educated you're just being misinformed.

People ask me why I post here. I post here because I believe the best way to keep the fat off once you've lost it is to educate yourself. For all people there is a WOE (Way of Eating) that is going to be the most sustainable. In my opinion your primary goal should not be to lose weight it should be to lose weight and while you're doing it experiment a little to find out what is going to work long term for you.

Phase four for some people is going to be a complete disaster. It doesn't matter how thin some people get they will always be insulin resistant and they should eat low carb for the rest of their lives. For others - even if they're not genetically insulin resistant whole wheat should simply be avoided because of intollerance or how it triggers cravings. Ultimately you have to restrict calories in one way or another to keep the fat off once you've lost it and it doesn't have to mean a day or two of phase 1 dieting on IP products for the rest of your life.

You can click the link on my sig to find out my personal WOE but that isn't going to work for everyone.

Hopefully this was informative. :D

JohnP
01-12-2013, 03:56 PM
John,
I'm not looking to get into a debate. All I know is that for this diet, it's important that your carbs be low. Raising them during the diet could slow weight loss and throw you out of ketosis.

I'm not looking for a debate either. I agree 100% that if you're on phase 1 of the IP diet you should stick to the protocol.

I just believe it's worth being educated about the real reasons why this is true.

Chloe222
01-12-2013, 04:20 PM
Thank you, everyone, for that informative exchange!

John, I went to one of the links you posted above and found this fascinating section: (Note: all written below comes from http://www.bodyrecomposition.com/fat-loss/the-energy-balance-equation.html if want to read more.)

If you create a 3,500 cal/week deficit and you should lose one pound of fat, right? Again, wrong.

There is a built in assumption in the above that turns out to not be necessarily correct but also throws a wrench into expectations about the energy balance equation. That assumption is that 100% fat is being lost when a deficit is created. Now, if you diet correctly (e.g. the way I describe in my books), this is a pretty good assumption but it’s not universally true. Often people also lose muscle and connective tissue on a diet.
And the issue is that muscle and connective tissue doesn’t provide as much energy to the body as a pound of fat. Rather than 3,500 calories to break down a pound of fat, a pound of muscle provides about 600 calories to the body when it’s broken down for energy.
Let me put this in mathematical terms, to show you how the identical 3,500 calorie/week deficit can yield drastically different changes in body mass depending on what percentage of tissue you’re losing. I’m going to use the extremes of 100% fat, 50/50 fat and muscle, and 100% muscle.

The assumption of one pound per week (3,500 cal/week deficit) is only valid for the condition where you lose 100% fat. If you lose 50% fat and 50% muscle, you will lose 1.7 pounds in a week for the same 3,500 calorie deficit. Lose 100% muscle (this never happens, mind you, it’s just for illustration) and you lose 5.8 pounds per week.

I’d note that I suspect this is why many rapid weight loss centers advise against exercise: exercise limits muscle loss on a diet and the simple fact is that you will lose MORE TOTAL WEIGHT faster if you lose muscle.
Finally, I’d note that most obesity researchers assume a loss for obese individuals of roughly 25% lean body mass and 75% fat which would put the true expected weight loss somewhere between the 1 lb/week and 1.7 pounds per week. But I don’t feel like doing the math.
I should note that the above numbers aren’t the same as for weight gain but there are differences in the amount of energy required to store one pound of muscle vs. one pound of fat. So there are still differences and this means that the predicted weight gain and actual weigh gain won’t be identical; the math just isn’t quite the same as what I presented above.
But the critics say, it still never works out that way. Even if you account for water and the above, the math still never works out. The calorie hypothesis is still incorrect.

Alma4343
01-12-2013, 04:24 PM
Thank you all for the encouragement, I know about three people that have told me to try it but two had to lose 70 pounds and the other wanted to lose 90. I just wanted to make sure that it would be okay to for someone that only wants to lose 35. I'm glad that there are people speaking up that wanted/needed to the lose the same amount as me, it makes me feel so much more comfortable! I do think I am going to try it out after what I learn at the seminar.
I understand that they just might want to sell me on it, but I've been a sales person for five years, I know how to handle myself. But I thank you John. :)
I might do it with alternative products to try and save some money but that is pending more research. I'm so glad I found 3 Fat Chicks! Seems like such an awesome community! Thank you again!

Hello, when I went to alternatives it was VERY confusing there was so much information. My advice would be to: 1. Read the phase 1 sheet (over and over) it is posted in the stickies and 2. Find a few alternative products that would work and start out by just using those as your "packets". As you learn and have more time, you can start to incorporate other products. If you want to know some alternatives you can easily start with just let us know. (My suggestion would be the EAS Ready to drinks and the EAS bar as your restricted item. These can be found in Safeway, Costco and Sam's club). If you look at the alternative threads, there is a LOT of information and it can be so confusing to a newbie. So don't get discouraged. Just keep it simple in the beginning.

maezy1
01-12-2013, 04:43 PM
HGANTT I do some alternatives and some IP products. Why? I like the IP products and haven't found anything that I like better to replace them. As John said, whatever diet plan you decide to follow do your research first. Also, make sure it is a plan and lifestyle change that you can live with for the rest of your life. The thing we all have to learn about dieting is that we don't do it to take the weight off then go back to our old way of eating. All that will happen is that the weight will come back on.
IP presentation - I went to one. Each center is different. Mine didn't tell me that IP products were superior but I know that some do.C actually tried to get confirmation about the superior nature of IP products from the corp itself and IP would not confirm

JohnP
01-12-2013, 05:00 PM
Chloe - I've read just about everything Lyle has written. However it's important not to lose sight of the forest for the trees - meaning - don't get too caught up in the details and lose sight of the big picture.

In my opinion one of the most important articles he has written is this one. (http://www.bodyrecomposition.com/fat-loss/fundamental-principles-versus-minor-details.html)

tam67green
01-12-2013, 07:25 PM
If you listen to the "propaganda," and that's a very big if. Like John, I researched Ideal Protein, Medifast, HMR and other plans, because I was considering them.

I carefully compared the supposedly "superior" ingredients, and found that Ideal Protein was no more superior than the other heavily markeded PSMFs and they were actually inferior to many off-the-shelf and whole-food alternatives.

What Ideal Protein is selling at a high premium isn't superior quality, it's brand-loyalty, simplicity, service, and in some cases more variety than other plans (but not as much variety as if you were to put together your own PSMF). You may consider the cost a good value, but I think it's important to know what exactly you're buying.

If you do a PSMF on your own (with or without low-carb, high-protein packaged convenience foods), you can do it with far superior ingredients and for far less money - but you do need to educate yourself a little on these ingredients and in nutrition in general (and by little, I mean only a few hours of reading. You don't need a degree in bariatric nutrition).

None of the prepackaged PSMF plans want you to know how easy it is to create your own as-good-or-better plan, so they all sell "magic." They imply that there's something in (or not in) their products that make them superior to the competition - and yet sometimes they're exactly the same products, made in the same facilities, and often even sold by the same company (It's my understanding that the company that makes Ideal Protein also makes one of the lower-cost competitors and the products are even in identical packaging except for the outer box).

Believe it or not, I'm not bashing Ideal Protein or people following the name-brand plan. Some people (including me) do much better when the have a more structured plan, and especially someone supervising a weekly weigh-in.

I'm struggling now with that, as I've given up my TOPS (weight loss group) membership because the group's practices were so counterproductive I couldn't in good conscience stay. So now I'm trying to build that structure myself.

Still, I find in unconscionable that advertising and marketing is allowed to be so misleading. Every product manufacturer claims that their product contains superior ingredients, down to ketchup made in a factory where a dozen brands are bottled (the only difference being the label) - each of those brands claiming to be made with superior ingredients than all the rest.

If you're comparing the ingredients and the nutrition labels, and sticking closely you should be able to duplicate the quality, success, and flavor-appeal of the name brand. It is more work, and you don't get built-in supevision, support, and accountability - but the results will be the same.

And if you're willing to do just a little more work - reading and food preparation you can get superior flavor, results, and nutrition. You don't even have to use processed and prepackaged foods (though for myself too much whole-food cooking means too much food around the house and too many opportunities for eating off plan).

Wow, thanks for the information! (Thanks to John, too!) I am planning on doing a mix of IP products and alternative products, but was a little hesitant because of the propoganda I mentioned. But you are right, every company will tell you that their product is best. I don't begrudge them that; after all, they are looking for a profit and if they tell you that cheaper ingredients are also effective, they are not going to turn a profit. I have done a little research and my friend and I are both considering doing alternatives due to the cost of the IP products. She is much more wary of it than I am, because she believes the hype more than I do.

BrittStar027
01-12-2013, 09:40 PM
If you listen to the "propaganda," and that's a very big if. Like John, I researched Ideal Protein, Medifast, HMR and other plans, because I was considering them.

I carefully compared the supposedly "superior" ingredients, and found that Ideal Protein was no more superior than the other heavily markeded PSMFs and they were actually inferior to many off-the-shelf and whole-food alternatives.

What Ideal Protein is selling at a high premium isn't superior quality, it's brand-loyalty, simplicity, service, and in some cases more variety than other plans (but not as much variety as if you were to put together your own PSMF). You may consider the cost a good value, but I think it's important to know what exactly you're buying.

If you do a PSMF on your own (with or without low-carb, high-protein packaged convenience foods), you can do it with far superior ingredients and for far less money - but you do need to educate yourself a little on these ingredients and in nutrition in general (and by little, I mean only a few hours of reading. You don't need a degree in bariatric nutrition).

None of the prepackaged PSMF plans want you to know how easy it is to create your own as-good-or-better plan, so they all sell "magic." They imply that there's something in (or not in) their products that make them superior to the competition - and yet sometimes they're exactly the same products, made in the same facilities, and often even sold by the same company (It's my understanding that the company that makes Ideal Protein also makes one of the lower-cost competitors and the products are even in identical packaging except for the outer box).

Believe it or not, I'm not bashing Ideal Protein or people following the name-brand plan. Some people (including me) do much better when the have a more structured plan, and especially someone supervising a weekly weigh-in.

I'm struggling now with that, as I've given up my TOPS (weight loss group) membership because the group's practices were so counterproductive I couldn't in good conscience stay. So now I'm trying to build that structure myself.

Still, I find in unconscionable that advertising and marketing is allowed to be so misleading. Every product manufacturer claims that their product contains superior ingredients, down to ketchup made in a factory where a dozen brands are bottled (the only difference being the label) - each of those brands claiming to be made with superior ingredients than all the rest.

If you're comparing the ingredients and the nutrition labels, and sticking closely you should be able to duplicate the quality, success, and flavor-appeal of the name brand. It is more work, and you don't get built-in supevision, support, and accountability - but the results will be the same (assuming you've done a fair job of duplicating the calorie and carb content - obviously if you choose to deviate from the calorie and macro content of the plan you're attempting to mimic, your results will also be different).

And if you're willing to do just a little more work - reading and food preparation you can get superior flavor, results, and nutrition. You don't even have to use processed and prepackaged foods (though for myself too much whole-food cooking means too much food around the house and too many opportunities for eating off plan).

Do you know what the products are made by the same company as IP are called??

scorbett1103
01-12-2013, 10:01 PM
Do you know what the products are made by the same company as IP are called??

There are a few out there. The ProtiThin chocolate soy puffs are identical to the IP ones. And ProtiDiet's White Cheddar crisps are also identical to IP's version (down to the silver space packaging), just a slightly smaller portion. Several bars with a few different companies are also identical to IP.

IP43
01-12-2013, 10:59 PM
Hey John -- I was wondering where you were. Hadn't heard from you in awhile. Glad to see you're still sharing your wealth of knowledge.
(p.s. to newbies - don't argue with him...you won't win :D But if you have a question, as you can see he usually has some good advice or places to go to further your own research):book2:

kaplods
01-13-2013, 12:56 AM
Hey John -- I was wondering where you were. Hadn't heard from you in awhile. Glad to see you're still sharing your wealth of knowledge.
(p.s. to newbies - don't argue with him...you won't win :D But if you have a question, as you can see he usually has some good advice or places to go to further your own research):book2:


Actually you can win an argument with John, you just have to be able to back up your argument with evidence supporting your viewpoint and it has to be persuasive enough to win him over after he does his own reading to make sure that you're right.

I know it can be done, because I've done it at least two or three times (Well, to be fair it was probably more like one actual "win" and the rest "draws").

Earning that "win" was an awesome ego boost, but I've learned far more from the losses.

I don't often meet anyone who knows more about weight loss than I do (there's a lot of people who DO better at weight loss than I do, but after years of study, I do understand the subject - heck I put more hours and effort into studying weight loss than I put into my master's degree in psychology - by about a thousand fold).

JohnP
01-13-2013, 02:30 AM
Hey John -- I was wondering where you were. Hadn't heard from you in awhile. Glad to see you're still sharing your wealth of knowledge.

I've been reading here but not posting much due to time constraints.

...but after years of study, I do understand the subject...

Haha yea that is how I feel. The amazing thing is how simple the subject actually is but the signal to noise ratio is so low it's extremely difficult to grasp the fundamentals for anyone new.

Some day I hope to make my living in the field of fat loss because helping people change their lives is so rewarding but as of now I haven't been able to determine a business model that I could grow into the kind of income I need. The entire industry is built around shoveling B.S. and I just couldn't do that.

If I win the super lotto though ...

WorldTraveleronIP
01-13-2013, 10:39 AM
There are a few out there. The ProtiThin chocolate soy puffs are identical to the IP ones. And ProtiDiet's White Cheddar crisps are also identical to IP's version (down to the silver space packaging), just a slightly smaller portion. Several bars with a few different companies are also identical to IP.

Just be very careful with the alternative products you choose. Check all the ingredients for hidden sugars and carbs not listed in the breakdown and compare them to IP.

Good luck with whatever you choose :)