Living Maintenance - Maintainers Weekly Chat Dec 3 - Dec 9




BillBlueEyes
12-03-2012, 05:55 AM
The eating season continues.

It's time for me to start thinking about all the places where Christmas goodies will appear. And well-meaning folks pushing their homemade sweets to cheer mankind.

Self, it's OK to say no. They won't be so offended that their recovery is impossible. Nobody ever died because I refused their Christmas treat.

Why do I even have to remind myself of that?


bargoo
12-03-2012, 06:49 AM
Good thoughts, Bill. I will try to keep that in mimd.

Mudpie
12-03-2012, 06:49 AM
Bill I think all people would all have a much less stressful holiday season if they didn't feel compelled to produce all of this extra stuff but were content to celebrate the joys of the season (snow, lights, skating, carolling, etc).

I too have taken home-baked treats (I know how much work goes into those and do appreciate that part of it) from my clients. I thank them, tell them DH and I will enjoy them, save 2, and put the rest in the food bank box or give them away at the dog beach to whoever is down there with their dogs.

There is a real pressure for people to overdo at Christmas in particular. I wish I knew a way to reduce that - I am content with a tree, a slightly special dinner, and one really good gingerbread cookie.

I'm so happy 3FC is available for support. We will all face the same obstacles together! :grouphug:

Dagmar :ginger:


Megan1982
12-03-2012, 09:05 AM
Morning all,

I always seem to give into the stressful aspects of the holiday season. It's difficult for me to relax and enjoy it until all my shopping is done and I've packed up and traveled successfully to my family's (aka Dec 23). Until then it's need to shop, need to prod Mom for ideas for Dad and vice versa bc everyone in my family is so tough to shop for (why are they all so hard?! definitely takes the joy out of gifting), need to order gifts early since I live so far from civilization (there is no "running to the mall" here - it's a 3 hour round trip), need to put lights up, need to stay on exercise schedule to combat extra food and drink at holiday parties, etc. etc. etc. This weekend I was trying to get things crossed off my list. My house is sort of more liveable and I checked out the local stores and bought a few stocking stuffers. I ended up indulging and going fishing when BF offered yesterday since it was a beautiful, calm day, but of course I feel guilty now and probably won't get the Christmas lights put up this year, which makes me sad. We leave early Wednesday for a week's vacation and it's unlikely I'll put them up when I get back for the short time I'll be home until I travel again. BF is rather Scroogey so he's no help there. Ok, ok. *poof* I've let the Christmas lights go.

I used to feel the need to do holiday baking as I grew up with the tradition and enjoy baking, but really don't anymore. At least that's one thing I don't stress out about getting done. There is no shortage of treats at work or with my family during the holidays. I give out the jams and jellies that I make during the summer as gifts, and am fine that's the "special" thing I do during the holidays, though I am still somewhat morally conflicted bc I still feel like I'm adding more sugar to the world's diet.

I have been accosted by the neighbors several times about the block holiday party that is Tuesday night, the night before we leave. It will be a miracle if my suitcase is packed before then. I'd even like to take the afternoon off work that day to help myself de-stress and get ready, but I can't, bc I have too much to do at work too. And I feel terrible, bc I would like to go. I am just too stressed about getting ready for this trip. Once we're gone I will be able to relax.

Bill, I like that. When a cookie appears, I'll try to remind myself that no one will die if I don't eat it. Including me!

I'm going to take some deep yoga breaths and go back to crossing things off of my "to-do" list at work now.

alinnell
12-03-2012, 09:29 AM
We sat around all day yesterday after golf instead of going to a movie. DH watched football all afternoon while the rest of us napped, did laundry, puttered around and played with the kittens. Last night DH looked at me with a sad face as he said he finally realized what he meant to do that afternoon--put up the Christmas lights! He rarely gets home before dark, so we'll see how soon they do get up.

Next Sunday I've been invited by a friend to join a group called Wine Women. It's rather philanthropic as each month they pick a charity to donate to and this month it is Animal Samaritans where I adopted Louie from and who my in-laws adopted their new kittens. So once a month they get together, have a gourmet meal and sample wine. I think it'll be a lot of fun.

I'm starting to rue the fact that we have a trip planned in January. Not that we knew it at the time we booked the trip (Caribbean cruise) but we'll be in the midst of moving. It'll still be early in the game, but that one week being shot will add to the stress of it.

Tuesday night we're going to see Straight No Chaser. Has anyone seen them live? I know they have a lot of YouTube videos and I believe some albums. I think that will be fun and might bring me to being more festive for the holidays. I need to start wrapping presents. Ugh--that which I hate the most! I still have a few gift cards to purchase and send out and I'm hoping I can spare myself a trip to the mall. I'll be searching online today at work once I get the actual work done.

I might make one batch of holiday cookies this year, but I'm not sure. I might also make the Julekaka that is traditional for us--it's always so good. I have a lot of stuff I might do, but there are a lot of things I need to do. I guess I should be making lists.

bargoo
12-03-2012, 09:33 AM
I am making beans and ham hocks today, nothing to do with Christmas, just good on a rainy day.

traveling michele
12-03-2012, 10:12 AM
Megan-- are you going somewhere fun on vacation? I hope it's stress free!!

I thought about buying and wrapping this weekend. Didn't buy anything-- wrapped two gifts-- thought about Christmas cards-- it's a start right?

We weren't going to put up a tree this year as the girls will hardly be home but dd really wants us to so dh will probably do it when he returns from his latest overseas trip.

One week until dd's service dog arrives (to her) and they start team training!

Crossing my fingers that my mini cooper doesn't have any lasting water damage....

alinnell
12-03-2012, 10:26 AM
I am making beans and ham hocks today, nothing to do with Christmas, just good on a rainy day.

I got a huge ham shank at the store Saturday and a 16 bean mixture for soup. One of our favorites! I like shanks better than hocks--I think they have a bit more meat on them.

Sad morning. One of the kittens died over the weekend. I couldn't see mama, but the little calico was in the carrier and ran out when I approached. I peeked inside and saw the gray and white kitten and she wasn't moving. Poor baby.

saef
12-03-2012, 10:40 AM
As usual, I settled in today at my desk after my morning workout, thinking I knew exactly what I had to work on today -- a long report due ASAP -- and my planned day was blown to pieces by something with IMMEDIATE priority based on an Amazon Web Services announcement made last Wednesday. No one else wanted to do it because they've all also got long reports due ASAP. So it's mine.

I'm trying to breathe.

I, too, blew off putting out Christmas lights. For me that's placing electric candles in each of the windows, which involves taping the bases in place and using extension cords. But it looks so nice from outside. Several neighbors have commented on it. I'm also awaiting the delivery of two big green wreaths from Maine, which I'll bet will come on one of the days I'm working in CT, rather than when I am home to sign for them.

I saw "Lincoln" and "Anna Karenina" over the weekend & am ready to leave the 19th century behind me in my next movie theater venture.

I'm waiting anxiously for "Zero Dark Thirty" which my friends tell me is wonderful and yes, dark. From the same director who oversaw "The Hurt Locker." Won't take my mother to that one, though: "Les Mis" is more to her liking, probably on Christmas Day.

bargoo
12-03-2012, 10:41 AM
Allison, have both ham hocks and ham shanks in this one. I have a neighbor who is very generous, he bought a package of 3 ham hocks he gave one to me and one to another neighbor and kept one himself. I don't know about you but one ham hock is pretty mingy so I bought 2 ham shanks to add to it, you are right the shanks do have more meat on them.

ChrisMohr
12-03-2012, 11:26 AM
Hi all,

I was interested in the "obsession", "binge and punish" and other aspects of our conversation from last week. I always imagine that some day I can be less obsessive about food, like some skinny friends I have of both genders who just eat in sane ways and it's no big deal. On the other hand, maybe it's a big deal for me and it's best just to accept that. It's like bingo halls, whose existence I am barely aware of, but which require real vigilance and carefulness for people obsessed with gambling!

So OK I'm obsessed and accept it. I also don't want to "binge and punish," and I see a path of gradually reducing the intensity of my binges. This past Thanksgiving I had three binge days when usually I had six. And as I lose that weight, I have little squares of dark cholcolate every day so I am also trying to minimize the "punishment" side of the cycle.

And yes, I weigh myself pretty much every day. I make a deal with myself on days I either binge or choose to have a generous meal: no weigh-in the next day in exchange for eating well that day. Weigh-ins after a high-sodium day of eating are both depressing and distorted.

CherryPie99
12-03-2012, 01:27 PM
Hope no one minds me carrying this over from last week...

Out of curiosity, what are you weighing habits? Do you always weigh in right after exercise?

The part that I pulled out & quoted: This is what you need to work on. Not dropping below your "promised" weight but your reaction to that occurrence. Some possible reactions:

1) Oh, well, that's lower than promised, but I kinda like it. Maybe it would be okay. Or even to go a little lower. (That would have been my thinking in my eating disorderish days -- I was always pushing to go lower even when my Better Half told me no, I shouldn't, and that everyone was telling me not to. There was no such thing as "too low." For other people, maybe, but not for me.)

2) Hey that means I can eat that particular food that I just coveted the other day, which has gotten itself lodged into my mind, so that I'm convinced that I need it, I absolutely HAVE TO have it. Of course, it's not a healthy food, in fact, it's cruddy, but it's something that once, I used to enjoy immoderately. It's okay, I've exercised it off already, in a sense. (This, in me, is the Voice of Temptation, and should NEVER be listened to. Because it's the voice of an accountant, in which exercise = permission to eat. I have never been able to get into the accounting mode without also crashing into eating disorder territory. Because you can't out-exercise a bad diet, as is frequently written here. And because exercise session then become a form of repentance and a form of self-flagellation.)

Is it possible for you to moderate your exercise regimen on the following day? For me, who clings desperately to the idea of exercise like a cross & garlic to keep the vampire of obesity away, this would be difficult, but it seems like a sane reaction.

Or would you be able to increase slightly your intake of healthy foods? Extra nuts? More fruit? Even a slice of whole-grain bread? Whatever you eat & enjoy that is actually good for you?

I typically weigh myself every day right when I get up. I don't normally weigh myself after exercising except when I do my long runs because I am always interersted in how much I drop after the run.

You are right about my reaction to dropping below a certain weight. I could NEVER understand anorexia when I was obese, but I get it now - there is a certain... power? .... in dropping pounds.

The voice of "oh I can eat anything I want now" was there LOUD and CLEAR. As was a bag of chocolates that I had bought to split up between neices and nephews in their Xmas gifts. But I didn't give in to it. And I wrapped the chocolates - FAST LOL

My typical response is to increase calories by something healthy - like an apple or some nuts. I also sometimes add in a whole wheat bagel thin - probably not the MOST healthy choice, but I LOVE bread and have deprived myself of it a lot during this journey.

The dietician was very firm that 115 should be a sign that I need to increase calories. She was okay with me hovering between 115-120 so I guess I'm not off too much. She told me that with my level of exercise that I really should be about 120. I weighed in at 115.0 this morning.

I guess this is all part of figuring out maintenance. I've been in it less then 4 months. I really appreciate everyone's thoughts and support!!

CherryPie99
12-03-2012, 01:28 PM
Tuesday night we're going to see Straight No Chaser. Has anyone seen them live? I know they have a lot of YouTube videos and I believe some albums.

Oh! I LOVE Straight No Chaser!!! I have never seen them live. Please give a full report after you've seen them! I'm so jealous!

Jen

alinnell
12-03-2012, 02:18 PM
Jen~I'll give a full report AND NO, we don't mind carry-overs from previous weeks!

I've always had this in my mind: I could never be anorexic because I love food too much. My DD has the same mentality. That said, there is a certain "power" when losing weight. A feeling of invincibility, that nothing can get in your way. I think it might be easy to cave.

krampus
12-03-2012, 02:18 PM
Hi Maintainers!

I picked up a shift at a local bakery selling enormous cookies, coffee and hot cocoa at a street fair yesterday. 6 hours standing out in the windy cold and I only ate 1 cookie and a (big) cup of (incredibly rich yet dairy free creamy veggie) soup. That's a victory of sorts. Oh and I made almost $100! Afterward I was ravenous and had more soup and half of a tempeh/cabbage/radish/carrot sandwich...and some homemade sourdough bread...and some ice cream...but I feel fine/normal today and weighed in at a happy "normal" number.

I've been thinking...I'd like to work for Weight Watchers or a weight-loss business whose ethics and plans I agree with. Sometimes I feel like it would be "too easy" to help people exercise common sense and discretion with their food choices, almost like "cheating."

JohnKY
12-03-2012, 11:30 PM
Bill,

Always finding myself telling the person offering the delicious holiday treats how great they look and smell to cushion the blow of my rejection.

Chris,

I've come to terms with being a little obessed with the contents of my diet. I know if I want to stay on track I've got to pay attention. Nothing wrong with that in a context where there is a very high potential for a cascading failure should a person deviate too much.

BillBlueEyes
12-04-2012, 05:05 AM
I did not eat any of the cranberry sponge cake being passed around last night. Not only was nobody offended, no one even noticed.Self, perhaps you're not the center of the universe.

Mudpie
12-04-2012, 05:21 AM
I did not eat any of the cranberry sponge cake being passed around last night. Not only was nobody offended, no one even noticed.Self, perhaps you're not the center of the universe.

What? :eek: :lol:

Dagmar :coolsnow:

Mudpie
12-04-2012, 06:35 AM
Binge-eating? Really?

http://www.thestar.com/living/article/1297107--dsm-5-asperger-s-dropped-from-diagnostic-guide-hoarding-and-binge-eating-added

Dagmar :shrug:

JayEll
12-04-2012, 07:05 AM
Yes, Dagmar, binge-eating disorder. It's been around awhile. However, it is rather different from what most people around here call bingeing. People say "Oh, I binged" when what they mean is that they ate more than they "should have" of something. Binge-eating disorder is more serious.

Here's what Mayo Clinic has to say about it.

http://www.mayoclinic.com/health/binge-eating-disorder/DS00608

saef
12-04-2012, 08:58 AM
Binge-eating disorder. Ah, yes. Been there, done that. Went directly to that behavior after suffering from anorexia. Never want to do that regularly again. It's not just overeating, it has a distinctly compulsive edge. Something in you just snaps and you're absolutely compelled, like someone's got a rifle pressed into your back, to drive someplace & buy large quantities of food, (shamed & fearful that the clerks will know it's ALL FOR YOU) drag it off to your lair, and eat & eat & eat, often very, very quickly, and nearly always completely pleasure-lessly, at least after the first few tastes, until your stomach is distended and you're nearly sick from it. And still you eat. And then you drop into the blackest, self-hating despair imaginable.

Looking back on it, I think of it as an attempt at self-obliteration through eating: When you can't stand living, you do it instead of drowning yourself. You "go under" by using food as the element rather than water. I would never have been able to commit suicide, because of the gore & pain & above all, the PERMANENCE, so I did that instead: I binged.

The place to go on this site to talk about this problem is "Chicks in Control," but in my view, simply talking about it here is not enough to help you get over it. For me, it took twice-a-week visits to a therapist, a lot of behavioral therapy, and antidepressants. I worked like a dog at getting over it for a few years. And **still** I drop into binge behavior after experiencing intense anxiety -- though this is infrequent, not even monthly now, and I am able to observe myself, to slow down & ultimately to stop the behavior, through the steps I have learned. I am convinced that I may never fully eradicate it. But it is so, so much better than it once was, believe me. It's hard to believe that I am still the same person. I look back often with amazement at the desperate girl whom I once was. (I wish I could've told her, "It will get better. Really, it will.")

ChrisMohr
12-04-2012, 10:15 AM
Hi gang,

A few comments... I weigh myself every morning UNLESS I ate at a restaurant the day before... why depress myself just because high sodium artificially pushes up my weight for a day?

I LOVE the revelation that NO ONE CARES what we eat at a social gathering! What a relief that we are not the center of the universe!

Krampus, good luck with Weight Watchers work. You'd probably be great at it. They did good for me years ago, I just failed to move into their maintainers group.

traveling michele
12-04-2012, 10:23 AM
Hi Maintainers!

I've been thinking...I'd like to work for Weight Watchers or a weight-loss business whose ethics and plans I agree with. Sometimes I feel like it would be "too easy" to help people exercise common sense and discretion with their food choices, almost like "cheating."

Krampus-- Weight Watchers only hires members that have successfully lost weight on their program. So you would be ineligible unless you gained weight and then lost it using Weight Watchers!:dizzy:

bargoo
12-04-2012, 10:26 AM
Chris, I weigh myself every morning, the only exception is if I am out of town and away from my scale. I write the results on my calendar and I can easily see if a trend is developing.
I am going to a tea this afternoon, I am going to try and remember Bill's idea, mainly that nobody reallly cares what and if I eat,

alinnell
12-04-2012, 10:29 AM
Looking back on it, I think of it as an attempt at self-obliteration through eating: When you can't stand living, you do it instead of drowning yourself. You "go under" by using food as the element rather than water. I would never have been able to commit suicide, because of the gore & pain & above all, the PERMANENCE, so I did that instead: I binged.

Sounds a lot like alcoholism, only with food.

I, too, weigh myself each morning. It my weight is up, I'm a bit more careful about what I eat. If my weight is down then I either try a bit harder to lose (if I'm in losing mode) or realize I can have just a bit more (if I'm in maintenance mode). FWIW, I'm currently in maintenance mode and will switch back to losing mode at the end of January.

paperclippy
12-04-2012, 11:08 AM
Hey folks!

Megan, where are you going on vacation? Sorry the holidays are stressing you out! I haven't even started my holiday shopping yet.

Re: binge eating disorder, I have read quite a lot about it and am glad that I have never suffered from it. :grouphug: for all the folks who have. It's important to make the distinction Jay mentioned between when people say "binge" and they mean "ate a lot of food" and an actual disordered compulsive binge. I may eat a lot of junk food on occasion, but the reason is always "that's yummy, I want more."

Things are going pretty well at work for me. It was pretty much made official yesterday that I'm next in line for a leadership position when the current person moves on, which is nice to know even though it may not be for several years. It's where I assumed my career would go but it's nice to have it noted by other people that they also think I would be good at it.

There hasn't been any holiday food around my office yet but there have certainly been a lot of pizza lunches lately. DH is taking a long vacation this month because he's only allowed to roll over 40 hours of time off from one year to the next, so he has to use it up before Dec 31. This means he's off 12/15-12/31! That's the longest vacation he's taken since our honeymoon I think. We're going to see my folks in LA 12/20-12/27.

paperclippy
12-04-2012, 11:08 AM
Whoa, thanks ticker! I completely didn't even realize that I had my 7 year maintenance anniversary. :D

bargoo
12-04-2012, 11:18 AM
Jesica, congratulation on maintaining for 7 years. That is awesome !

krampus
12-04-2012, 12:29 PM
Congrats on 7 years in maintenance, Jessica!

Binge eating is, from what I can see just based on personal experience, talking to people here and in person, one of the most complex and difficult to diagnose behaviors there is.

My personal opinion is that it's a mindset more than anything - zoning out and disappearing during a binge. I could never consciously, mindfully binge eat - I always watched TV shows and had to have everything "just so." Given the amount of prep time - walking up to 4 miles to collect binge food from several different stores, getting the lights and temperature and level of solitude just so - it was almost like a party, but the worst kind of party because it inevitably resulted in self-loathing and extreme discomfort and "did that just happen?!" thoughts.

In my case I think I started binging because I got too obsessed with weight loss and didn't have enough protein/fat in my diet. Once I lightened up it went away.

I am grateful that chapter of my life was in Japan. It would be so incredibly easy to binge eat in America.

Mudpie
12-04-2012, 05:01 PM
I guess in my post re binge eating disorder and mental illness I should have added that this was my opinion? But of course Jayell is right there to set me straight.

I went through my own period of binge eating. Bought the food at several stores, mixed in with "healthy" foods like fruit, veggies, dried pasta, etc to hide it from the grocery cashiers. Like they cared.

Took it home and shovelled it in in my dark bedroom, usually accompanied by alcohol straight from the mickey until I passed out. Self-loathing the next day and bloat and unease for several days after that. Once gained 10 lbs. on one weekend.

But did I think I was mentally ill? No. Sad, lonely, depressed, out of control, yes. But mentally ill, no.

of course this is my personal experience only with this - does not mean I apply it to anyone else etc. etc. etc.

Dagmar :coolsnow:

JayEll
12-04-2012, 06:22 PM
Most people don't think of themselves as having a "mental illness"--it's such a negative term. But that doesn't mean they don't have one. Not saying that you did, Dagmar... just that self-diagnosis is highly unreliable. Also, there is a difference between major mental illnesses and other types of disorders.

alinnell, there are, anecdotally speaking, two kinds of alcoholics. "Binge drinkers" may have long periods where they don't drink, or appear to drink like a normal person, but then they go off the rails one day and just keep going. Lost Weekend. They often black out while on a binge and come to in a strange city with strange people.

"Maintenance drinkers" or "daily drinkers" usually don't drink the way binge drinkers do--instead, they just keep a little buzz going all day long, as in, from the first thing in the morning, and then increase in the evening. However, the amount they drink does tend to escalate over time.

Often these two types like to point to the other type as being the "real alcoholics." :lol:

alinnell
12-04-2012, 07:52 PM
Jay, I was thinking in terms of alcoholics that literally drink themselves to death (saef was talking about the permanence of suicide and that brought it to mind).

And yeah, the buzz drinkers are one sort of alcoholic. I've known a few in my life. My DH has had a couple bouts of blackouts. He is aware of his problem and we're working on triggers that cause him to binge. Not to say that he shouldn't give it up altogether, but I can't see him taking that plunge. Instead, we discuss things and set limits and so far it's been working great.

Mudpie
12-05-2012, 06:34 AM
Jay, I was thinking in terms of alcoholics that literally drink themselves to death (saef was talking about the permanence of suicide and that brought it to mind).

And yeah, the buzz drinkers are one sort of alcoholic. I've known a few in my life. My DH has had a couple bouts of blackouts. He is aware of his problem and we're working on triggers that cause him to binge. Not to say that he shouldn't give it up altogether, but I can't see him taking that plunge. Instead, we discuss things and set limits and so far it's been working great.

I was a really weird waffler - didn't drink at all during the week, ran 6K every morning, worked out with a rowing machine and stationary bike, did yoga, walked the dog for an hour in the evening, etc. Then on Friday night I started drinking and didn't stop until the booze ran out sometime early Sunday morning.

By Saturday night I was usually so boozed up I didn't remember much of what I did. But it was generally hanging out with the dog and binge eating, along with the booze.

I totally marvel at all of this now. How could I have been that person? Amazing how much we CAN change.

Dagmar :strong:

ICUwishing
12-05-2012, 07:28 AM
Dagmar, it IS amazing, and hopeful, and motivating! That possibility for change is always there. :)

As the product of two alcoholics, I feel the pull every time I have one drink. Usually, I don't have a second. Some of it's because I'm just too tightly wound to let myself get out of control, and some of it's because the memories of my parents being too far gone to take care of their responsibilities are still very vivid. I have my own convoluted and complicated huge set of rules that bound how I drink, but about once every 10 years I choose to ignore them completely. :p I have referred to myself as a "latent alcoholic", as I know I could easily go there.

CherryPie99
12-05-2012, 08:19 AM
I am a substance abuse counselor and have been amazed at how much the journey to lose weight and recovery from addictions has in common. The big difference is that we need to learn to use our "drug of choice" in moderation whereas the alcoholic and drug addict can "just" quit!

This is shaping up to be a rotten terrible week. I have - out of the blue - developed IT Band Syndrome. I went for a run yesterday and I was in so much pain. I know I need to rest it, but the thought of giving up my main form of calorie burning terrifies me. I don't know what I am going to do!!

Jen

JayEll
12-05-2012, 08:42 AM
CherryPie99, from what I've seen as just a layperson, it's not all foods that are the "drug of choice," it's certain key trigger foods. Usually sugar and fat and salt in some combination. I don't know too many people who binge eat on plain rye crisp, for example. If they do, it's because something like cream cheese is involved.

And in my layperson's opinion, you MUST NOT RUN with IT band syndrome! You are simply going to have to rest and concentrate on upper body exercise, unless you want to make it worse.

alinnell
12-05-2012, 09:35 AM
Not to change the subject, but you wanted a report on Straight No Chaser. Wow. Spectacular show. Amazing what 10 voices can do. No real "set" other than some risers to put the guys at different levels from time to time and nice lighting to change things up a bit (oh, and a Christmas tree for the second half). Wonderful show. A lot of the songs we're all used to seeing on YouTube, some Christmas staples, and some new material. "I'm Sexy and I Know It" sung a cappella as part of one new song elicited quite a few laughs with their "wiggle, wiggle, wiggle." Fun show. I do recommend seeing it if you get the chance. After the show, they set chairs and tables up in the lobby so everyone could meet them. We didn't stick around for that as our "chauffeur" Nicky must have been in a hurry to leave and he was one of the first in line for the valet (normally we wait around for 10 minutes for the valet to bring our car up, nope, I think we were the 2nd car!).

Okay, back to our regular programming.

bargoo
12-05-2012, 10:05 AM
I went to a tea yesterday followed by carol singing, it was more fun even people who can't carry a tune sound great when all are singing in unison.

saef
12-05-2012, 10:51 AM
I'm writing here to take my mind off a big seminar that I'm about to co-present to an online audience, using the video camera installed in the laptop and a phone with a headset and a PowerPoint that all the attendees can view. And twice during the presentation, we have to change seats, remove a headset and turn off the video camera while we make the change. This is a fraught situation, I tell you, and I will be so glad when we've finished.

I'm over beyond the stress phase where food has any attraction, and into the no interest whatsoever in eating phase. I see it as a kind of color-coded zone. Yellow is eating too fast, orange is near-binge, but red zone means I don't give a damn about food and can ignore raging hunger.

Then afterward, the red drops down into orange and yellow successively. Food isn't connected solely with soothing away negative emotions. For me, it's connected with re-setting to a neutral level, to trying to even out an extreme mood swing in either direction, so I can be coming down from a high & use it that way, or getting into fear and unhappiness & use it that way.

paperclippy
12-05-2012, 11:06 AM
Jen, please don't run with IT band syndrome! DH has had several bouts of it and always ends up making it worse because he can't manage to take it easy. Go for some other form of exercise that doesn't irritate your leg (perhaps swimming or biking?) until it gets better, and when you go back to running make sure to ease into it and not try to go too far too fast.

saef
12-05-2012, 12:22 PM
Jen, I've not had this particular injury before, but I've had others that have kept me from exercising, and this is what I can tell you:

Laying off exercise WILL NOT immediately put you back to where you were before you lost weight.

You know that, really, in your rational mind, but fear of becoming fat, relapsing, being sent back to where we once were so unhappy -- that fear is a powerful thing, and it can distort your thinking.

I sometimes think of exercise as something that I engage in almost ritualistically & nearly superstitiously. As I've said before, it's my cross & my garlic to frighten away the scary vampire. Which is my former fat self.

Also, just because you stop, doesn't mean you will never restart again. It's a pause, not a complete relinquishment.

The exercise thread -- and this site -- has a lot of people on it who took time off to heal for one reason or another, and then, once healed, got back into their routines and picked up where they'd left off.

Ask yourself if maybe, like me, you are endowing exercise with a significance even beyond what it actually has in scientific terms: As your daily talisman against regain.

It's part of my own crazy, but I think I am not alone in this.

Shannon in ATL
12-05-2012, 12:36 PM
Jen - slightly different outlook from me on IT Band symdrome - I had it and have just really finished recovering. Yes, rest it and don't do any long runs on it at all. Short runs with a strap might actually help with the healing process. I had success with an IT Band strap on mine - it made the running not hurt anymore and helped me to retrain the knee, mine was caused by some development of bad form. I also stopped wearing heels for a while. High heeled shoes really made it hurt.

On the binge eating topic, I'm not really able to comment on it yet. I'm working on it.

CherryPie99
12-05-2012, 03:08 PM
Allison - So glad you liked Straight No Chaser! It sounds like it was an awesome show!

Thanks to everyone else for your input on IT Band Syndrome and exercise. I have never had to deal with an injury before and I'm like MAD at my body for "betraying" me if that makes any sense!

I also live in such black and white thinking - I said today in my blog that even gaining 5 pounds would mark me as a complete FAILURE and would signal DISASTER!

Even yesterday - when I had run 6 miles (stupidly - since I was in agony by 4 miles in) I felt like severely restricting my calories because I know I won't be able to burn the calories I am used to.

I bought a foam roller and have been looking up exercises to stregthen my IT band. Tonight is a "leg night" so I'll focus on these exercises as I will be leaving out squats for a while.

Shannon - when I bought the foam roller I saw the IT Band straps and almost bought one. It's good to know that they help.

Tomorrow will be the real test, because it is a scheduled run day and I won't be running. This overpowering anxiety sucks, it really does!

Jen

saef
12-05-2012, 04:53 PM
Tomorrow will be the real test, because it is a scheduled run day and I won't be running. This overpowering anxiety sucks, it really does!

I wish that, somehow, I could sit with you through this. Because I understand that anxiety so completely. It comes on under even lesser conditions for me: For instance, letting myself oversleep, missing a scheduled workout, or having to get on my laptop early to catch a Europe-based coworker and missing a scheduled workout. I am restless and yes, anxious, until I can get that workout in. I feel I've done something wrong because I'm not keeping with the regular schedule.

I don't want to be that rigid with my life, because such rigidity is constricting and makes me suffer over something that in reality, is quite a minor thing. Flexible people live happier lives.

So I understand how you'll feel uneasy tomorrow at this disruption in your schedule.

Trust me, you will not inflate up again overnight after a missed workout or two.

Regular people miss workouts. Even people who were once morbidly obese. Why should we be held to a higher standard? Why do we expect so damn much of ourselves?

CherryPie99
12-05-2012, 07:37 PM
Thank you so, so much. You don't know how much it means to know both that I have support but also that someone knows what I am feeling.

Sometimes I put so much pressure and self-criticism on myself it's a lonely place. Interestingly enough, when I was morbidly obese, I DIDN'T define myself by my weight. I instead defined myself by my intelligence. At what point I started defining myself by a number on a scale, I don't know!

I agree with you about flexibility and I strive to have that, but sometimes when thrown totally off, that commitment disappears.

I know that I have control issues, so the one good thing is that I have done a ton of reading in the last 2 days about the syndrome. Then I worked my legs - HARD - but with no pain - doing the strengthening and stretching exercises for the band, and afterwards iced it. It feels really good right now. That helps me feel a little more in control and not so powerless. We'll see what I feel like tomorrow after a day without running.

Jen

traveling michele
12-06-2012, 10:42 AM
Oh Jen.... I think you and I have much in common.... and probably many of the other maintainers here too.... so much about control issues, mind games, etc.

I've been doing a great deal of contemplating the last few days about my feelings regarding my weight-- how I let it mentally control me and my moods so much. I was very happily maintaining 117-119 for close to two years and gradually over the last year my weight has crept up. I can't really pinpoint why. It's gotten me quite frustrated. On Monday when I was 128 on the scale, I had a hard day mentally-- I was doing a lot of self-loathing talk-- If I'm working so hard to keep my weight off and I'm going to gain it back anyway-- I might as well eat what I want and enjoy myself! Seriously-- that's what I was telling myself. I am so tired of watching everyone at work eat all the crap while I abstain-- it was quite the topic the other day when the teachers had a meeting in the library-- there was a huge bowl of candy (on my desk of course)-- as everyone kept coming up and getting candy they kept remarking about how I never eat the stuff (as I was madly chewing my carrots and trying to ignore the candy). I said that no-- I don't because I can't control myself. I started really missing the days that dh and I would share a large (pound) bag of peanut M&M's. I haven't had one in years.

The last few days my weight is starting to shift back down. I was 124 this morning and my redline is 125. So, why should 4 pounds make such a difference mentally? I don't know-- but it does.

Now I'm concerned because dh comes back today after being gone for two weeks. It was his last real trip of the year. He always says that I should be able to "really focus" on my weight and exercise when he's gone so I can have some "fun" with him when he's home. Meaning he'll want to go out to eat to somewhere where it will be very difficult to make good choices. I'm mad that I didn't make more progress while he was gone but I was sick, busy, trying to run a house, take care of four animals, put out the fires with my girls, etc.

So, more self discovery is needed I think.

Dh is planning on taking me to lunch today so I'll have to be careful. I weigh in Saturday morning at Weight Watchers and I'd love to be down a bit more before then.

Let's not even mention the impending holidays and all that entails....

Mudpie
12-06-2012, 05:40 PM
Ahh Christmas and the rest of the holiday season

:present: :tree: :dizzy: :stress: :crazy: :eek: :faint:

Dagmar :rofl:

CherryPie99
12-06-2012, 09:40 PM
Well, I made it through today without a complete meltdown. I did a core workout at noon and came home and walked on the treadmill with a deep incline. No pain at all. Then stretched and stretched and had DH use the foam roller on me.

Weirdly, I have been really hungry the last couple days - I'm not sure if that's stress/anxiety or do you guys think it's possible that it's because of my body healing itself?

I've been really distracted, scatterbrained, and irritable and I want that to stop.

Michele, I hear you about work! I watched our security guy STUFF chocolate covered oreos in his mouth today, and I was disgusted and jealous at the same time. I also remember the days of buying snacks and sweets and eating them without a care in the world! Tomorrow we're having a small lunchtime celebration for someone who is retiring and of course there will be cake. If I have even a small piece I will also have negative self-loathing talk and if I don't I'll be resentful.

And to think - when I was Obese I was absoulutely CERTAIN that if I were thin, life would be SO easy!!!!!

traveling michele
12-06-2012, 11:30 PM
And to think - when I was Obese I was absoulutely CERTAIN that if I were thin, life would be SO easy!!!!!

Isn't that the truth!? I thought I would always be happy if I was thin! Realistically I knew that wasn't true, but I don't think I realized how often I would blur the lines between whether I felt thin or not. I was thinking more today about how I was ready to throw in the towel (almost) at 128, WHICH IS A PERFECTLY HEALTHY WEIGHT! Seriously? Why would I even consider going back to being obese? I certainly wasn't happy then.

Dh returned from Belgium (and Singapore and Malaysia) with Belgian Chocolates for me. I thanked him profusely and told him I'd have one Saturday (after my weigh in). He still acted like his feelings were hurt and suggested I have one today. I didn't. :carrot:

Mudpie
12-07-2012, 07:01 AM
Isn't that the truth!? I thought I would always be happy if I was thin! Realistically I knew that wasn't true, but I don't think I realized how often I would blur the lines between whether I felt thin or not. I was thinking more today about how I was ready to throw in the towel (almost) at 128, WHICH IS A PERFECTLY HEALTHY WEIGHT! Seriously? Why would I even consider going back to being obese? I certainly wasn't happy then.

Dh returned from Belgium (and Singapore and Malaysia) with Belgian Chocolates for me. I thanked him profusely and told him I'd have one Saturday (after my weigh in). He still acted like his feelings were hurt and suggested I have one today. I didn't. :carrot:

Tell your DH to send the chocolates to me - I'll eat 'em and send profuse thanks, hugs, and kisses if he likes. :lol3: Did I mention I've never had Belgian chocolates actually from Belgium? :drool:

I think I would have had one chocolate were I in your shoes michele. One chocolate doesn't derail maintenance for me. But we are all different and have to make our own choices.

Dagmar :dizzy:

JayEll
12-07-2012, 07:56 AM
Just a thought--I don't think anyone here who wants to "throw in the towel" wants to go back to being obese! I think instead it's wanting to stop with the endless restriction stretching forever into the future.

It's wanting to throw in the towel on the mindset that makes eating ANYthing that's not precisely on plan, or having to skip even ONE day of exercise, into a moral failing that brings up tremendous anxiety. And, the danger is all-or-nothing thinking, which turns anything other than perfection into complete failure and an excuse to go whole hog, so to speak.

bargoo
12-07-2012, 08:38 AM
michele, I understand where you are coming from but I have absolutely no words of advice. I can only share my experience, I am doing well, right now but I can truly say I don't know why. I don't have a light bulb moment. I know I don't want to go back to being obese, I have been there several times, don't like it.
JayEll mentions perfectionism, I am a perfectionist , not that everything I do comes out perfect, my perfectionism takes the route, if I can't do it perfectly, I won't do it all. It has taken me years to figure that out.
I guess what it comes down to is, what do I want and what am I willing to do to get it ? I want to be at a healthy, appropriate weight for my height but it I get tired of maintaining . I pretty much think about food and how to maiintain my loss most of the time It gets very tiresome, boring, even. Many is the time I just want to say to heck with it and in the past I have done that and I was not happy with the results.

alinnell
12-07-2012, 09:34 AM
I tend to agree about the endless restrictions. It does become monotonous. Why I even put egg nog on my shopping list (but have to check to see if we have dark rum to add to it). One carton will not be my undoing. In fact, I seriously believe that I won't finish that carton. But I'd like at least one egg nog this season, therefore I will have it.

I do, however, see the need for restrictions IF they are triggers for binges. I've come up with a solution for my binges (which aren't the typical binges, but perhaps merely overeating). I like crackers. And cheese. I have been allowing myself four crackers topped with small pieces of cheese each afternoon when I come home from work. This is when my stomach is most growly. If I allow myself this little indulgence it stops the BLTs that I used to cave into while fixing dinner.

You all know I've decided to give up "dieting" for the holidays. My goal is to maintain and return to dieting in January. So far things are fine. I'm up slightly, but not anywhere to the point of panic. Hanging in there, so to speak. I think my portions have gotten a bit too large, so I need to concentrate on that for now.

traveling michele
12-07-2012, 10:24 AM
Perfectionism-- yes, that is my middle name.....

No, one piece of chocolate wouldn't have derailed me. But, I only weigh in officially once a month and I hate to see that number go up. I know it will be up this month, and if I had that one piece of chocolate it would have been at least .5 pound higher if not more. Even without the chocolate, I was up .8 today from yesterday for no reason I can figure out.

Dh and I snapped at each other this morning over what morning TV to watch during breakfast. That's what happens when he travels so much-- we get into our solitary routines and have to figure out how to live with each other again! Silly, I know!

Bargoo-- I like what you said. You said that you don't want to give it up and be obese since you've done that before and you weren't happy there. This is/was my first time losing a major amount of weight. I certainly don't want to have to start over. Better when it's a minor amount of weight to concentrate on rather than a major amount.

TGIF!

Crazy work day hopefully followed by bikram yoga and sushi tonight.

saef
12-07-2012, 10:46 AM
I overslept this morning and once again, experienced exactly what black-and-white thinking can mean: Because I couldn't get to the gym at the time I'm "supposed to" go there, and would therefore not have time to complete my full Friday routine, I didn't go. Instead I've decided I'll go after work.

But not doing what I'm supposed to, exactly when I'm supposed to, has left me uneasy. I know I'll have no peace till I do what I set out to do & prove that this is not a sign of a serious relapse.

I've been thinking about this over the past day or two. I want to call it the Reverse Cinderella fear. It's like when I was fat, I lived a slightly dimmer and more difficult life. And then I lost weight, and I got to live it up, like Cinderella at the ball. But I have a fear it's temporary, that it occurred through some kind of magical spell, which only persists if I keep up with daily exercise and extremely careful choices. Otherwise, the spell ends, and the improved life, too, will end, just like Cinderella's big night -- that one slip-up means everything turns back into a pumpkin again, with rags & ashes all around.

I didn't claim this was rational. I know it's magical thinking. I mean, I'm naming the feeling after a fairy tale. But I am saying, that is how it feels.

If I name it and poke a little fun at it, maybe it will be less fearsome and have less sway over me.

And I talk about it here in case someone feels the same way & this helps them recognize themselves & helps them get a handle on their own behavior, too. For many of you it's going to be hard to relate to, and "Snap out it!" and "How can someone with insight still persist in neurotic behaviors?" Compulsions are hard to break. For me, it seems I just replace one set of compulsions with another set, although the new versions are ostensibly healthier. But they are equally dictatorial. Common sense withers in the face of compulsions, BTW. There is something irrational going on with which the rational mind has difficulty battling.

Shannon in ATL
12-07-2012, 11:08 AM
Saef, I am feeling quite the familiarity with your Reverse Cinderella feeling.

I have a lot of insight into my neurosis, yet I persist in them. I'm frustrated with my current size and weight, yet I make bad (bingelike) food choices. I know that yoga will make me feel better, yet I don't get up and do it. Today my MIL was at my house when I woke up, she stayed with DSS for us to go to a holiday party last night. As a result I couldn't exercise in the garage before work, or didn't feel like I could. So now I'm all stressed and worried about getting it done after the boys are settled down after bath. I know that even if MIL had not been there I would have quite likely gone back to bed, but right now I'm blaming it on the change in my routine. I know that I'm making excuses for myself, yet I continue to make them.

Michele - I hear you on the perfectionism, and I can give you kudos for the chocolate. Have one on Saturday and enjoy it with gusto. :)

Jen - there is a great yoga stretch for the IT band that I can't remember the name of. You stand with your feet together, then lift one foot and cross it over in front of the other so you are standing tall with your ankles crossed over the other and the outsides of your feet together. Forward fold and place your palms (or fingertips in my case) on the ground. I've done a lot of others that were great as well, but this one is my favorite. And, found a picture!
http://blog.corewalking.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/11/IT-Band-Stretch.jpg

bargoo
12-07-2012, 11:39 AM
I recently saw on another forum a thread where the poster was proclaiming how easy it is to maintain, three or four others agreed. I don't find this to be true for me, it takes constant effort, day after day, meal after meal. I can relax a little now but I can't ever forget what will happen if I go back to old habits.

JayEll
12-07-2012, 11:47 AM
"In the beginning it is roses, roses. Later on it is thorns, thorns."

paperclippy
12-07-2012, 11:52 AM
Bargoo, I will say that I found maintaining very easy for the first year. My stomach was used to eating small quantities, and I would get full very easily, and in general it was actually easy. However, while maintaining for a year was easy, maintaining *forever* is not so easy! I have certainly had my share of ups and downs, and I have toed the line of "overweight" once or twice over the past 7 years. Still, I've never come close to being as heavy as I once was, so overall I think it's been a win for me.

That said, I have never suffered from an eating disorder or compulsive eating behaviors. To a point, anyway -- I like to say I'm OCD without the O, because I do have quite a lot of compulsions and things I need to do in a specific way, but I don't have the crushing anxiety that something horrible will happen if I do it wrong. So when it comes to food, for me my compulsions are things like how I need to chew the same quantity of food on the left side of my mouth as on the right side, and if I'm eating bite-sized things (like, blueberries or something) I need to alternate which side of my mouth I chew on. I know it's crazy, but I just have to do it that way. I am also the person who walks only on the colored tiles at the grocery store.

So in any case, I am certainly a compulsive person in general, but never in a severe enough way for it to be a problem. I feel like this makes it easier for me to maintain than for someone who has suffered from binge eating disorder or severe depression or another condition that involves a form of anxiety disorder. I compulsively weigh myself every morning and I always do it after I take my towel off the rack but before I get into the shower, and I have to put the scale lined up parallel to the cabinet and directly in the beam of light from the light bulb, and I have to put the scale back exactly into the corner and make sure it's touching fully on two sides, but I don't worry about the number unless it's steadily going upward and it's over my red line.

I suppose we are all neurotic in our own special ways. :)

bargoo
12-07-2012, 12:20 PM
Yes, Jessica, I have heard that everybody has a little bit of OCD, mine is numbers, I am a counter, if I walk up or down a flight of stairs, I count, when I walk out to my car, I count how many steps I take. The interestng thing about this is accuracy doesn't matter I might go something like this, 13, 14, 15, 22,23,3 , 4 7, 10, 11 etc. Doesn't matter if the number is right it just seems to be important to count. I also have scraps of paper on my desk with lists of numbers, I know what they are but they are of no importance, whatsoever. I have often thought if I am ever murdered and detectives come looking for clues, they will go crazy trying to figure it out.
I am actually pretty good at this, I can carry on a perfecty normal conversation with someone and at the same time be counting how many cars in the parking lot or how many windows in the building across the street.
I went to my book club yesterday and one of the members is a Psysho Therapist but has been ainactive for awhile, her husband is urging her to renew her license seems she is analyzing him all the time..

alinnell
12-07-2012, 12:37 PM
OMG! I'm a counter, too! It started, as far as I can remember, when I was in my early teens (junior high). I find myself counting things when I'm underwhelmed (like while watching TV or being driven somewhere). While I don't count stairs, but I count sides of things. And the goal is to come up even. 40 being the best final number, although 80 is good, too. What's weird, though, my favorite numbers are 17 and 37.

bargoo
12-07-2012, 12:47 PM
Allison, I am so glad to hear there is another counter .

JayEll
12-07-2012, 01:00 PM
This video is about Janine Shepherd. It's a TED talk, and the theme is "You Are Not Your Body."

http://www.karmatube.org/videos.php?id=3576

It's under 20 minutes long.

krampus
12-07-2012, 01:10 PM
CherryPie99, being injured is the absolute worst binge/"pfff you may as well give up" trigger for me. I was out for a bit because of my back (ok, a week, but still) and after ONE workout I felt like a human again. There is an end to this! And even if something terrible were to happen, you could still maintain your loss. You have control over it!

Maybe it's age and my individual metabolism, but I notice I am really laissez-faire when it comes to maintenance. I have my "regular" foods and my "sometimes/not all the time" foods and I try to keep it balanced. I'm a daily weigher and regular exerciser/lifter and I don't count things...except in instances like the potluck party last night. I had 0 mini hot dogs so that I could fit in 4 1/2 cookies. :P

bargoo
12-07-2012, 01:46 PM
This video is about Janine Shepherd. It's a TED talk, and the theme is "You Are Not Your Body."

http://www.karmatube.org/videos.php?id=3576

It's under 20 minutes long.

JayEll, thank you so much for introducing me to this inspiring message. What a fantastic story.

Sheila53
12-07-2012, 01:56 PM
Allison, I am so glad to hear there is another counter .

Another counter raises her hand!

I also have to put the eggs back in the carton in the same pattern. I used four today for something so had six left and placed three at one end and three at the other end of the carton the same way. A couple of months ago, my DH noticed I did this and asked me if I wanted him to arrange the eggs, too. I was so embarassed that I snapped at him and then tried not to arrange the eggs for a while. But it's a compulsive behavior so I went back to it. And decided not to be embarassed about it anymore.

bargoo
12-07-2012, 02:07 PM
Allison, Sheila, it's almost like a secret vice, nobody knows I am doing it and this is one of the rare times I have even mentioned that I do it. PS, Sheila , my eggs are all in a certain way after I open the carton and take one or two out, are you telling me that some people think this is odd ?

WardHog
12-07-2012, 02:38 PM
I'm a counter and egg arranger, too. When I'm swimming laps or running on a treadmill I also do math in my head. Is this odd?

alinnell
12-07-2012, 02:40 PM
I do something similar with eggs--only I take them from one end and then the other end, so when we're down to two, they are in the middle--kitty corner to one another. I do it, though, so that the carton isn't heavy on just one side (prevents accidental spills).

I'm so glad I'm not the only one with idiosyncrasies.

CherryPie99
12-07-2012, 03:03 PM
Oh my - doesn't it feel good to at least have other people that "get" it?? I was trying to explain to my never been heavy co-worker today about my fears and that if 1 bad thing happens - like if I were to gain 5 pounds - that EVERYTHING would go wrong and it would be a disaster and she just couldn't get it at all even though she was trying. Saef your reverse Cinderella analogy describes me to a T! I actually teared up reading your post!

I didn't take a piece of cake at the retirement party today, but helped pick up and wiped my finger across the knife used to cut the cake and licked off what was there and then instantly felt guilty. If the scale is up at all tomorrow, I will blame it on that crazy as that is!

Shannon - I have been doing that stretch a couple times per day. That is supposedly the best one for stretching out the band. I'm doing a Rodney Yee Yoga DVD when I get home, too and then will have DH foam roll me (hehe! that sounds dirty).

Krampus, I read your posts and I actually get envious at times how you are able to go off plan, say "oh well!" and get right back on track! That's what I strive to have in my life!

Jen

Shannon in ATL
12-07-2012, 03:16 PM
Jen - I snickered when I read about you having Dh foam roll you, it does sound dirty. :)

Allison, Bargoo, Sheila, Ward, I'm a counter, too! Stairs, cars on the road, skittles in a bowl on the counter. I also put things back into cartons and packs in patterns, and I have to have an even number of food items on my plate or in my bowl. Unless it is a soup or stew or something like diced tomatoes which I can let go. I also have to keep my food items separate from each other on my plate and in the fridge in storage. And I cut everything up on my plate into pieces before I eat, (even numbers) which I then count over and over during the meal, not in a tracking progress way but in a mindless way. I also do the math in my head on the treadmill and elliptical, often the miles and progress or pace or something, but sometimes just random balancing my checkbook, adding some things up, counting the dots on the wall or tiles on the ceiling.

And I sound all kinds of insane when I say it all out loud.

traveling michele
12-07-2012, 03:33 PM
Saef-- I also loved your Cinderella analogy and can relate to it well.

Counters-- I didn't know it was so common! I do have some OCD tendencies but I'm not a counter. My younger dd is though. I don't think she realizes that other people do it so I'll have to tell her. She counts light poles and things when driving. She definitely counts food and wants things to be even-- I've often been the recipient of one cracker or one skittle if the numbers don't line up correctly. She has favorite numbers (multiples of 4) so she will attempt to make things be the correct number.

JayEll
12-07-2012, 03:45 PM
I want all you compulsives to sit down while I tell you this: Some people actually take eggs out of the carton randomly. That's right--one from the end, another closer to the middle, two from the same row but assymetrically, etc. (Take deep breaths!... It will be OK!)

I take eggs from one end so that I can put the carton in the fridge with the heavier end pointed outward. I'm less likely to drop the carton that way. But I don't really... care... :chin:

bargoo
12-07-2012, 03:57 PM
I didn't know there were so many counters in the world. I never talked about it so didn't know there were others. it is a harmless compulsion, doesn't interfere with my normal routine.
I was once dating this guy and we were making sandwiches, I lined up the bread , as you counters can probably guess in a certain way. OMG ! he took one out of order ! Ididn't freak out but did mention it, he couldn't see why that should matter, you make a sandwich, you eat it, who cares, was his attitude. Nothing ever came of that relationship and it is probably a good thing as he was a hypochondriac. Imagine a hypochondriac and a counter together. Disaster in the making.

Mudpie
12-07-2012, 04:26 PM
"In the beginning it is roses, roses. Later on it is thorns, thorns."

For me there are still all sorts of roses. But I'm usually bleeding from the thorns when I stop to smell them. But the roses are no less beautiful, nor would I give them up to not have the thorns.

Dagmar :dizzy:

krampus
12-07-2012, 04:59 PM
Krampus, I read your posts and I actually get envious at times how you are able to go off plan, say "oh well!" and get right back on track! That's what I strive to have in my life!


You really don't need to. I balance it out otherwise I'd not be my current size! While I snarf plates of cookies and piles of food at parties once a week...the rest of the week I'm diligently lacing up my sneakers and eating plain Greek yogurt and salads with tuna fish and chicken.

Shannon in ATL
12-07-2012, 09:59 PM
And Krampus, that balance is the way you get right back on track, or a really - you don't call it off as I would. That is the part I love about your outlook on life. :)

Jay, I need to tell you that I've felt personally criticized and belittled by a lot of your posts in this chat thread over the last few months. I know that we don't really know each other and I have no way of knowing what you, or anyone really, means all the time in an online setting. I get that. I also get that anything I say in an open forum invites commentary and even criticism. I have historically felt safe to express things here or in the 5-10 thread that I might not express anywhere else, but right now I don't. You have given me a lot of good advice over the years, but lately I have felt that you have been very judging of things I and others have said. Maybe it is just you calling it like you see it, maybe you strongly disagree with a lot of things about me right now, maybe it is tough love and said out of concern, maybe you think I'm just screwed up. I I don't know. It seems to me like you have been very self righteous and critical of people you think aren't as stable and, well, right as you are. I've been festering on it for awhile and I need to share it, here in this forum. I hope that I'm wrong and misinterpreting things. I really do.

I'm feeling pretty lost right now, and obviously a little sensitive. I've been posting less and less lately because of it. It might be time for me to step away and come back after the first of the year.

Mudpie
12-08-2012, 05:59 AM
Jay, I need to tell you that I've felt personally criticized and belittled by a lot of your posts in this chat thread over the last few months. I know that we don't really know each other and I have no way of knowing what you, or anyone really, means all the time in an online setting. I get that. I also get that anything I say in an open forum invites commentary and even criticism. I have historically felt safe to express things here or in the 5-10 thread that I might not express anywhere else, but right now I don't. You have given me a lot of good advice over the years, but lately I have felt that you have been very judging of things I and others have said. Maybe it is just you calling it like you see it, maybe you strongly disagree with a lot of things about me right now, maybe it is tough love and said out of concern, maybe you think I'm just screwed up. I I don't know. It seems to me like you have been very self righteous and critical of people you think aren't as stable and, well, right as you are. I've been festering on it for awhile and I need to share it, here in this forum. I hope that I'm wrong and misinterpreting things. I really do.

Shannon has bravely said what I've been thinking for awhile Jayell. I was afraid of yet another contemptuous post from you if I tried to express it so I'm glad Shannon said it so precisely.

Sorry if this looks like we're ganging up on you.

Dagmar :shrug:

JayEll
12-08-2012, 07:00 AM
Shannon, Dagmar: I can see from looking back how you might feel that way.

However, I can say that I have not meant anything directed toward anyone personally, unless I have put their name on it. Certainly I have not been picking on you personally, Shannon.

Yeah, it's time for me to bow out of here. You folks can continue to reinforce each other without my input, I'm sure.

bargoo
12-08-2012, 07:51 AM
In a forum such as this where we have only the written word we do not hear tone of voice or see facial expressions which makes a difference in how we come across to each other. I look on these forums as a place where we can agree to disagree with no hard feelings. I wish the best for everybody.

CherryPie99
12-08-2012, 09:29 AM
And Krampus, that balance is the way you get right back on track, or a really - you don't call it off as I would. That is the part I love about your outlook on life. :)

AMEN!!!!!!

I weighed in at 115.4 this morning - towards the low end of my "okay" zone which has alleviated some of my panic about gaining weight. BUT my knee is very twingy and clearly not okay. So I'm still in a panic about what this means long term.

I am going to skip any morning workout and work arms later today. Give the leg a complete rest except for walking when we head in for lunch.

Speaking of lunch - my father died in 1990 when I was 18. He was not that close to his family. Today my mother and I are having lunch with 2 of his brothers and their spouses. I see them rarely. They all know about my weight loss but haven't seen me except for pictures. I am for some reason nervous about meeting with them. It's almost like they are an extension of my Dad - who always made fun of my weight - and if I get their approval, that means that my father would have been proud of me.

DANG - I am just FULL of issues this month, aren't I???!!!

alinnell
12-08-2012, 10:11 AM
Cherrypie, go and make your relatives (and your dad by extension) proud of you! Don't worry--you've accomplished far too much to worry about it.

So far having a good day today. For whatever reason, the orange cat didn't come in to bother us until after 5 AM. Miracle! Yesterday he started at 3 AM. One doesn't get a good night's sleep while wrangling a cat bent on waking you up.

Golf this afternoon followed by a light dinner stew at the in-laws RV. I think it'll be quite relaxing. Can I break into the 60's in golf this weekend? Wish me luck!

Shedit
12-08-2012, 01:43 PM
AMEN!!!!!!

I weighed in at 115.4 this morning - towards the low end of my "okay" zone which has alleviated some of my panic about gaining weight. BUT my knee is very twingy and clearly not okay. So I'm still in a panic about what this means long term.

I am going to skip any morning workout and work arms later today. Give the leg a complete rest except for walking when we head in for lunch.

Speaking of lunch - my father died in 1990 when I was 18. He was not that close to his family. Today my mother and I are having lunch with 2 of his brothers and their spouses. I see them rarely. They all know about my weight loss but haven't seen me except for pictures. I am for some reason nervous about meeting with them. It's almost like they are an extension of my Dad - who always made fun of my weight - and if I get their approval, that means that my father would have been proud of me.

DANG - I am just FULL of issues this month, aren't I???!!!

You are an incredible inspiration. Your knee issue is a speed bump and you will find a solution. After 60 years on the planet I finally get it that there are speed bumps in life but there are also many peaks. You have accomplished so much, more than most anyone would think is possible. I use a book peaks and valleys to help me. Big hugs to you and also wishes for a simple solution to your knee. And if isn't simple, you have handled way more, never forget that fact. Thank you for inspiring me!

saef
12-08-2012, 07:56 PM
I'm feeling pretty lost right now, and obviously a little sensitive. I've been posting less and less lately because of it. It might be time for me to step away and come back after the first of the year.

Shannon, my experience here is that the board works for me when I work the board. That is, when I don't self-censor and when I talk about what I call "the crazy" as freely as I'm able to do, I get some relief. When I just chat, and try to appear amiable or witty, without being upfront with what's really going on with me, it doesn't help me. And jeez, then why bother> Because I can make small talk at the office, in real life, when I head into Connecticut during the week. Here, I can talk about things that I don't feel safe discussing at work, with people whose relationship with me is more formal and professional, and with whom it would be unwise for me to be completely vulnerable and open.

I hope you will speak freely here, Shannon, because I really value hearing from you, as I think our struggles are very similar -- and when I don't hear anything, I may falsely assume a lack of need or simply that you're very busy, or preoccupied with helping your stepson find his way.

As for Jay, I think her helping us -- which is what I think she was trying to do -- met some need of hers, though I never felt that I was able to give her much help back in return, as she did not share as much about her own personal struggles, so there wasn't much insight I could ever offer.

I would hate to think of anyone holding back for fear of how they might be perceived. If that happens, this board isn't doing what it's meant to.

alinnell
12-08-2012, 09:23 PM
I have to agree, Saef. I don't hold back. I don't care how I'm perceived. But I do dislike being called out because something that I feel I am doing right is not right per someone else's standards. While I understand not everything works for everyone, as long as the person qualifies it and says it doesn't work for them and this is why, I understand and can agree. But when the person simply states that this will not work. period. I just don't get it. And I've been called out several times by JayEll. I usually ignore it, but it still steams me.

That said, I belong to several different chat boards. Two of which I am quite active on. The other one? Wow, there are some interesting people there. Not always supportive. And a bunch of trolls. At least we don't deal with trolls here (and if we do, most people are fast to call out the mods who put an end to it). But there are a small group of long-time members that kind of stick up for one another. This year, after Sandy, one member sent care packages to two members who were without power for over two weeks, etc. Both receiving members wrote in the past two days how wonderful it was to get the packages. It made my so happy that people, who have NEVER met each other would do something for one another.

I appreciate the candor in this group. I feel it is to the benefit of all of us. We can tell each other our shortcomings and can recognize similarities within ourselves. Empathy. It is a nice thing to have.

Mudpie
12-09-2012, 05:27 AM
I generally do hold back when it comes to criticizing other people on this board. I throw all of my own stuff out here but try to be polite and discreet with others. If you all notice whenever I offer even a bit of advice I end my post with my name and this :dizzy:. That means don't take this too seriously - it's layman's advice.

And I am also trying to be politically correct - learned my lesson with the "normal body type" question I asked - though that is hard for me.

Life is a learning process. I enjoy being on this board as I do still learn about what we are all living - maintenance.

Dagmar :coolsnow:

bargoo
12-09-2012, 06:21 AM
I try to keep in mind that there are 159 thousand members in 3fc and 159 thousand opinions and that's all they are ,opinions. Take it or leave it.

ICUwishing
12-09-2012, 08:54 AM
I love seeing the variety of ways that our members handle different situations. It seems like we each have some things we wrestle with - lots of it involves food and body image, sure ... but from my vantage point, it looks to me like we all want exactly the same thing: peace and balance, in the middle of a crazy world designed to keep us fat and sick and insecure. It's not easy; we all woke up and took the red pill. "You take the blue pill, the story ends, you wake up in your bed and believe whatever you want to believe. You take the red pill, you stay in Wonderland, and I show you how deep the rabbit hole goes." Morpheus in The Matrix. My opinion, and yes, I've been told I need to keep them to myself.

ChrisMohr
12-09-2012, 09:01 AM
It's great to feel the support of so many people struggling as the human beings we are to maintain our weight. I binged over Thanksgiving but have lost most of the weight gained since then. But I got really discouraged first and needed help regaining perspective here and got it. Nice to know others struggle with discouragement, perfectionism, frustration, culinary boredom, chafing at dietary limits, mild OCD, etc. Thanks for being human with me and I wish us all well these last three weeks of the year!

bargoo
12-09-2012, 09:06 AM
It's great to feel the support of so many people struggling as the human beings we are to maintain our weight. I binged over Thanksgiving but have lost most of the weight gained since then. But I got really discouraged first and needed help regaining perspective here and got it. Nice to know others struggle with discouragement, perfectionism, frustration, culinary boredom, chafing at dietary limits, mild OCD, etc. Thanks for being human with me and I wish us all well these last three weeks of the year!

Chris, all the things you mentioned I have experienced, and sometimes still do.

Mudpie
12-09-2012, 09:11 AM
It's great to feel the support of so many people struggling as the human beings we are to maintain our weight. I binged over Thanksgiving but have lost most of the weight gained since then. But I got really discouraged first and needed help regaining perspective here and got it. Nice to know others struggle with discouragement, perfectionism, frustration, culinary boredom, chafing at dietary limits, mild OCD, etc. Thanks for being human with me and I wish us all well these last three weeks of the year!

I second the well wishing for the remainder of the holiday season - whatever your holiday and whenever it ends. :grouphug: :cb: :cheer2:

Dagmar :coolsnow:

Mudpie
12-09-2012, 09:15 AM
I am off to do the pet Christmas shopping this morning. Have to get in and out fast as pet photos with Santa are going to be taken an hour after the store opens. I will be jogging around the aisles quite briskly, after waiting behind the door for the store to open. Luckily none of my own or clients pets are fussy - food treats are liked by everyone!

And then my Christmas shopping is DONE! (except for stocking stuffers for DH)

Dagmar :coolsnow:

CherryPie99
12-09-2012, 09:41 AM
You are an incredible inspiration. Your knee issue is a speed bump and you will find a solution. After 60 years on the planet I finally get it that there are speed bumps in life but there are also many peaks. You have accomplished so much, more than most anyone would think is possible. I use a book peaks and valleys to help me. Big hugs to you and also wishes for a simple solution to your knee. And if isn't simple, you have handled way more, never forget that fact. Thank you for inspiring me!

Thank you so much for your kind words. I admittedly don't do well handling unexpected bumps in the road. I strive to be that person who just rides the wave, but I'm not there yet!


Lunch yesterday with the relatives went so well. I was prepared for it to be awkward since I haven't seen them in so long, but it was very comfortable and relaxed! Also, they were great about commenting and asking about my weight loss and then just moving on to other topics of conversation.

My one uncle looks nothing like my father, but the other uncle looks and acts just like him. So it was a bit like seeing what my father would have looked like had he not died so that was a little sad.

I'm calling in sick tomorrow (shhh.... don't tell anyone) and will be heading down to a ginormous mall and expect to completely finish my Xmas shopping.

Have a great Sunday everyone!

Jen

saef
12-09-2012, 01:12 PM
Now why do I think that Jen is headed to Carousel Mall on Onondaga Lake on Monday? ;-)

I'm on my second day of a sore throat, about to start cutting up vegetables to make soup and likely will skip my apartment complex's Christmas party after all. Probably I'm contagious and they'll thank me for not standing over the food table and breathing on them in conversation.