Weight Loss Support - Momma has plateaud and is feeling frustrated




katiejames
08-25-2012, 09:57 AM
I know I should be soo glad that I just lost 39 pounds over the summer. I lost it by just changing eating habits and watching carbs. I have not even started working out yet. I was hoping to lose at least 10 more without having to work out..because my issue is that the working out scares me. The scale will go up because muscle weighs more than fat and blah blah blah...and I am sure that everyone will have a plethora of advice as to how I am doing this wrong and yadda yadda yadda...I am just plain pissed that this weight stopped coming off since my last menstrual cycle (a few weeks ago). I want to cry because this food issue has been a huge battle and what I really want to do now is go have a big mac ( I am a food addict). sigh..please offer some support without judging and offer some real solid workout advice without telling me to cut corners. I have several friends who do weight watchers and do the points..but I dont see how some of the stuff they eat is even ALLOWED. like why are you allowed to have a big mac and fries? smh..that was a small side note. And no, I am not going to go and free base a big mac while I await responses but please tell me that the weight will continue to come off! I still have 60 pounds to lose!:mad:


QuilterInVA
08-25-2012, 10:10 AM
First of all, muscle does NOT weigh more than fat. A pound is a pound. Muscle takes up less volume than fat so you will appear thinner than a person who weighs the same but doesn't exercise.

Second, losing weight without exercise means you are losing muscle as well as fat and that is not a healthy thing to do.

There is no good food and bad food. Food is food. There are good choices and poor choices. I'm a lifetime WW at goal since 1977 after losing 200+ pounds. You can't eat a Big Mac every day, but you can plan it into your eating program so you can have one occasionally. I'm a proponent of eating well 90% of the time and indulging 10%.

Walking is great exercise but the important thing is to get moving more. Exercise doesn't have to mean a trip to the gym. You can play more with your kids, dance, walk, bicycle, anything that gets you moving. Resistance exercise can be toning bands and there are tons of sites on the Internet with free routines.

You may need to have a more structured approach to weight loss. If you don't know where to start, take a look at MyPlate.gov to get going.

You have to be at the same weight for 6 weeks to be on a plateau. The way you get off is to exercise a little more and change what you are eating.

SerenityDiva
08-25-2012, 10:56 AM
Susan already stated great points. For me what keeps me going (and I love burgers--although only the kids' size ones so go figure) is knowing I can indulge if I want and stay on plan, but also educating myself to get the most bang for my buck. I literally eat 2-6 cups of salad a day every day. It's huge, takes awhile to eat (I'm not a fast eater by nature anyway), and by the time my entree is ready--I'm pretty much full (unless I add chicken or fish to the salad then I don't eat an entree). There are all types of low caloric way to add "dressing" to the salad, salsa, different vinegars, lemon juice, and even plain...so it's salad not dressing with a lettuce leaf. Experiment with different veggies and fruits, even in combinations you never thought possible (like mango salsa on fish rocks!). Hopefully your palate will change and you can have the volume you want without the calories and a Big Mac will be a special treat, but maybe you'll start craving other stuff? Just some thoughts. Good luck!


JohnP
08-25-2012, 11:33 AM
First of all, muscle does NOT weigh more than fat. A pound is a pound. Muscle takes up less volume than fat so you will appear thinner than a person who weighs the same but doesn't exercise.

Second, losing weight without exercise means you are losing muscle as well as fat and that is not a healthy thing to do.

There is no good food and bad food. Food is food. There are good choices and poor choices. I'm a lifetime WW at goal since 1977 after losing 200+ pounds. You can't eat a Big Mac every day, but you can plan it into your eating program so you can have one occasionally. I'm a proponent of eating well 90% of the time and indulging 10%.

Walking is great exercise but the important thing is to get moving more. Exercise doesn't have to mean a trip to the gym. You can play more with your kids, dance, walk, bicycle, anything that gets you moving. Resistance exercise can be toning bands and there are tons of sites on the Internet with free routines.

You may need to have a more structured approach to weight loss. If you don't know where to start, take a look at MyPlate.gov to get going.

You have to be at the same weight for 6 weeks to be on a plateau. The way you get off is to exercise a little more and change what you are eating.

OH MY! This is two posts you've made this year where I COMPLETELY AGREE with almost every single word and I feel like you're dispensing wisdom like buddah on the mountain top. Nice post! :D

The OP might want to read this post again, and again until the concepts in it sink in. If I had to nick pit a little I would say that you have to be the same weight for 10 weeks for it to be a plateau because some people can retain water for a long long time.

JohnP
08-25-2012, 11:34 AM
To the OP I would point out that regarding Mcdonalds it is a caloric deficit that causes fat loss - not quality of food or carb intake. For an extreme example google the "twinkie diet"

Vex
08-25-2012, 11:45 AM
When you say a few weeks - are you talking 2 or 3? Weight loss isn't linear for most people. I've had spans of 2 or 3 weeks where I've lost nothing and a few weeks where I've lost 4 or 5 lbs. The weeks I tend to lose less or nothing are usually right after TOM like you. It's the AVERAGE weight loss you really need to look at.

I wouldn't worry so much about 2 or 3 weeks at the same weight. I know easier said than done. It's when you're talking about 2 or 3 months at the same weight that you should be exploring changing your plan.

Don't let those times make you quit. I know it's discouraging. Keep going, and if you're still eating at a deficit I'm pretty sure the weight will start to come off again.

SerenityDiva
08-25-2012, 11:45 AM
To the OP I would point out that regarding Mcdonalds it is a caloric deficit that causes fat loss - not quality of food or carb intake. For an extreme example google the "twinkie diet"

Great point.

I also want to say MEASUREMENTS count too. I would rather weigh 20 pounds more and be 2-3 sizes less because of muscle versus fluffy and lighter. I've been there, I'll get there again (and this time stay accountable as I was thin and worked out most of my adult life), and trust me there is NOTHING like having muscle versus being just lighter...nothing.

Hotaruchan
08-25-2012, 11:59 AM
I had a burger and fries for dinner yesterday and still had a .6 lb drop on my scale this morning...true, that's partially because I'm exercising like a madwoman because I have to go back to work next week and might not have time for it, but it's also because I woke up in the morning and said "You know what sounds really good? Mos Burger." So knowing that I wanted something less-than-healthy for dinner (I looked it up and a Spicy Mos Burger has 346 calories and a small order of fries has 129...so actually not horrendous), I had a small breakfast, drank lots of water to tide me over, had a small-ish lunch, then had my treat for dinner. Throughout the day I used it as motivation to throw in a little extra activity too...When I wanted coffee, I walked past the machine right next to my apartment to go to one a kilometer away because I had greasy goodness waiting for me at the end of the day.

If just counting carbs has stalled out, maybe try switching to counting calories a while. It seems like the best way to break a plateau is to change things up. Thinking that you can't have things is just going to make you fixate on them and resent the fact that they're "off limits." If you set it up as a reward for yourself and plan accordingly, you can have things as long as you practice moderation. Next time you desperately want a Big Mac, don't tell yourself no...tell yourself "Yeah, I can have that for dinner so long as I have a healthy, low-cal breakfast and lunch." A Big Mac has 550 calories, a small order of fries has 230...so keep in mind throughout the day that your dinner will be around 780 calories and divide whatever your remaining calories are among breakfast, lunch, and snacks. If you're close by, maybe walk to the McDonald's to get it. If not, park your car at a different business down the street a piece and get in a few extra steps.

katiejames
08-25-2012, 12:01 PM
I'm seriously not stupid...these are all things I know..and I'm not on a diet..i made permanent lifestyle change. I do not need to great about ww..i don't care for the program..i have been working with my nutritionist to make lifestyle changes..the big mac.reference was a sarcastic note. I do not eat mcdonalds at all anymore and I don't miss it. I was able to drop nearly 40lbs just by making lifestyle changes..so don't tell me it.can't be done..i choose one battle at a.time..i chose to get the good under control first. To each thier own. I don't need to rethink my strategy..and don't jump down my throat about what I am doing..you have no clue..quick to judge and assume that I'm doing it wrong because im not doing it the way you are..smh

JossFit
08-25-2012, 12:31 PM
^ So... what is it you want? You just want weight to magically fall off? What is the point of your post if you're not genuinely seeking advice? Just to ***** about things.

Complain all you want to, but don't be rude to others for trying to help you.

SerenityDiva
08-25-2012, 12:35 PM
I really don't understand.

You're saying your on a plateau, but you don't want to change things, work out, or reassess them? No one can tell you that the weight will come off, no one can tell you without knowing what you are doing that it won't come off. Based on what you posted, seeking advice, people posted advice and opinions.

I think everyone was trying to be helpful, but I didn't see any judgements here at all--just advice and knowledge of what worked for people and/or is working for people, and some food for thought.

luckymommy
08-25-2012, 12:36 PM
katiejames, I'm sorry to read your post and that you took such offense to the advice you got. I would like to offer you some hugs :hug: if that's ok and to say a few things. First, it's often times hard to read sarcasm when things are in writing. You said you're seriously not stupid, but I don't think anyone here thinks you are stupid. :hug: You did clearly ask for support in your original post and we all have our own ways of giving support. Some of us actually can't help but dispense advice too ;) because we're SO excited about whatever we're doing.

I think it's fantastic that you found a way to drop 39 lbs. just by making some changes. People were just offering other ways to look at the situation since sometimes it's nice to have another point of view. I can understand your frustration (and I also didn't enjoy WeightWatchers) and I have often come here for advice, support, a vent, etc. I also know exactly what you mean about having fear about the scale going up when you start working out. Personally, what I have found is that if I just do cardio, it doesn't make my scale go up but if I add heavy weights, the scale does go up for a bit.

As far as I see it, you've worked really hard and working out isn't necessary for weight loss. You could just hang in there and see if the scale ends up cooperating. ;) Or, you could shake things up by making some changes. Since you said you don't need to rethink your strategy, then I will just wish you the best of luck and hope you end up seeing the changes you want to see.

If you ever do want some advice on what to do, it's nice to post what your'e doing and ask people if they could give some advice on how to shake things up. Or, you could maybe take a little break from weighing in? Just a thought.

Throughout my time here on this board, I have only had one time when I felt offended by someone's post but it turned out she didn't mean to offend me at all, which I found out after I posted about it. :o

katiejames
08-25-2012, 12:47 PM
First...i apologize for typos as I'm on my cell. Second..i wanted support and advice on how to approach the exercise. I take offense when some one said I need to rethink my approach..i am not dumb..i know there is no magic ( how do you think I lousy this much right? With a wand? Derr). Anyway..i also know I need to take baby steps in moving forward because I know its time to add.exercise..and no, I'm not lazy..i have 5 children, just did a 5k mud run and ran around the dells with my kids..i also rode bikes with my husband. I need something more structured though..i suppose I should have been more clear...but regardless..all of us are in the same boat..and we should embrace a vent,.support a.truth, and offer acceptance.

katiejames
08-25-2012, 01:02 PM
The food is no longer an issue..its the exercise..where to start..what to do..for how long? I apologize.

jenlag
08-25-2012, 01:19 PM
After losing my first 60 pounds (took 7 months), I hit a three month plateau. Part of my plateau problem was burn out and I wasn't being as disciplined as I needed to be. It's very discouraging to see the scale stop moving!! But what I have learned is there is victory outside of the scale! Actually for me, one of the greatest victories was a non scale victory. It was the reality of my clothes moving from a size 24 down to a size 8. Just because the scale doesn't move, it doesn't mean that your body isn't still changing.

I'm not a fitness expert, but can offer my own personal testimony. When I initially joined the gym, I was a fitness nightmare!!! I got on the elliptical and was GASPING for air in less than 3 minutes, literally seeing dark spots about to pass out. I decided to tone it down and ease into it. I walked and did light weight training just to strengthen my body from being so sedentary for so long. Within no time I was back on the elliptical, which I found to be the best bang for my exertion! I was burning over 400 calories in 30 minutes. It was awesome. Now as I dropped weight, it wasn't as easy to get my heart rate up that high nor burn that many calories. Changing up my exercise routine is key. I am currently doing ChaLean Extreme and love it! Her philosophy is 'muscle burns fat'.

Prim2012
08-25-2012, 01:21 PM
Katie, I'd say 95% of us have gone through a plataeu and can relate to your frustration. Regardless of the "technical definition" for what constitutes a plateau, it's frustrating and a bit depressing to see the scale remain the same when you know you're being deligent and "logic" would point to weight loss. While we all know that the formula for losing a pound is 3500 calories less than your body requires (through either diet, exercise, or both), it doesn't always comport. Our bodies are amazingly complex which explains why you can find a new study every week that contradicts the other on the topic of weight loss or maintaining our weight. All I know is that there is a real adjustment that occurs as we lose weight particularly significant levels like 10% or more and that creates opportunities to plateau. I do agree with a lot of the feedback related to changing things up whether it's tweaks to calories (up or down), macronutrients (carbs vs. protein vs. fats), or exercise (upping cardio, adding some resistance) as an approach to getting the scale to budge. I also find, no more than a weekly weigh-in is best for me since my weight can fluctuate 1-4 pounds daily and it was just too much of a roller coaster for me and contributed more to backslides (emotional eating and giving up) or radical "quick fixes" (hello fad diet or water fasts) that only stalled weight loss efforts in the end. I always say, weight loss is a very personal experience and something that works for everyone I know (i.e. mini-meals, Atkins) won't work for me. It's all about experimenting to see what might end the weight stall. On exercise, I'd start off with 30 minutes of moderate cardio, 3 days a week and then make the goal of increasing the intensity as well as adding some resistance after about 3-4 weeks to keep your body from adjusting. Good Luck!

katiejames
08-25-2012, 01:25 PM
^^^^ thank you. This is what I was looking for. :) I'm ready to take this step and step it up :)

SerenityDiva
08-25-2012, 01:36 PM
What I'd do is 5 minutes, 5 times a day...build up to 10 minutes say 3-4 times a day. I'd do circuits, i.e., maybe jumping jacks (modified if high impact is out which will work), marches, skipping, then some crunches or push ups even off the couch. Maybe decide during one of your favorite shows you're going to go balls to the wall during commercials, maybe every 3rd hour. I personally think once you start moving, you're going to find you love it and have more energy for it! Another idea is playing basketball or something with the kids, even just 15 minutes a day and building up (and no matter what time you spend, my kids would say it's not enough LOL).

For me plateaus have to be more than a 1 month of REALLY tracking, but I also don't get too upset with the scale..I don't have that relationship fortunately. But if I saw inches creeping up, scale not moving, or going up THEN if my activity was good I might mess around with macros, calories, meal timing, etc. In the past I've only lost weight after the kids and really only the "last 5-10 pounds" have I had to mess with the diet part other than calorie counting, i.e., if I wanted to be the "perfect" size (for my old job I had to do photos and I had to look healthy and slim) I had to cut out processed carbs, carbonated beverages, and limit salt (I don't add salt to anything except for popcorn so it's not a problem)..and drink a boatload of tea to look more "ripped" per se. It's not worth it to me right now and I've got quite aways to go anyway to worry about it, but in the past the tea and watching that stuff helped a lot. YMMV and good luck!

kakeJ
08-25-2012, 02:45 PM
I too have felt the frustration of hitting "plataeus" over the last 14 months, and recently went through it for the 3rd or fourth time, I have and will use these forums to vent, seek reassurance, and support as well as offer it( just see my posts).So Katiejames, you have my support. The thing to remember is, it's a speed bump and not a"plateau". The rate of weight lose does tend to slow down when compared to the pace from where started. Your going in the right direction to be sure. I think Jenlag's advice is right on. Bike riding is great! but the upper body has to get moving to get the heart rate has to go up. For me it is (outside of the scale) the place where I noticed the changes most. Elliptical training is a good way to start and if the gym is not your thing (I like to be outdoors myself) A few hill climbing hikes or biking hills are fun and can work too. pounding the knees by jogging/ running that have had to support nearly 300lbs. for many years was not for me. Maybe now at 217 I will try it to change things up a bit.
As far as the food cravings go, well they never completely go away but do come less often. replace the carbs with protein wherever you can as the exercising increases. The sweets cravings are still hard but i've learned to have protein bars instead of cupcakes. But this is just me and maybe it can work for you. You have to replace the craving for a Big mac with something else like a pure Fruit smoothie which will satisfy the appetite, and provide nutrition. You are doing great and you'll figure this out in your own way. Remember it's a SPeed Bump, not a plateau. I wish you all the best Katiejames

Tande784
08-25-2012, 03:28 PM
In the past plateaus and not meeting goals attached to a specific date have been deal breakers for me. I know, even though I'm just starting out that plateaus will come and I won't be setting any date related goals. Thank you for posting this since I've been thinking about how to handle a plateau when it occurs.
I've only got two children, but I also work fulltime and go to school so for me getting exercise in can be a challenge. Five kids would be amazing, but I can only imagine how much busier you are. I'm finding that if I don't get exercise in when I can it doesn't happen. I park further away and walk to work, I avoid elevators and opt for the stairs, and I clean the house while dancing to music. When I have time I also love the "Walk Away the Pounds" Dvds. I hate exercise, but find if I record my favorite shows and only watch them if I'm exercising I'm likely to exercise more because the time flies by. Any additional movement will likely help. I too am afraid to pack on muscle because I am very attached to waching the scale go down. Good luck in passing you plateau. Hey, you are raising five human beings! You can do anything!!

JohnP
08-25-2012, 04:41 PM
...you can find a new study every week that contradicts the other on the topic of weight loss or maintaining our weight.

It's all about experimenting to see what might end the weight stall.

On exercise, I'd start off with 30 minutes of moderate cardio, 3 days a week and then make the goal of increasing the intensity as well as adding some resistance after about 3-4 weeks to keep your body from adjusting.

In well designed studies the data is rarely contadictory. Sure - plenty of people draw bad conclusions from the data and plenty of studies are poorly designed in particular those with industry sponsorship but ... really you're far overstating the reality. We know a massive amount about how our bodies function. The real problem is there are tons of people with stuff to sell and they make up things to promote thier program which is why it seems contridictary.

Experimenting to see what might end a weight stall is a waste of time in my personal opinion because it puts the focus where it doesn't belong. We want to lose fat, not weight. Fat loss is an equation of energy so you're best bet is to focus your energy on what you can control - energy input and output. Weight loss is based on a large number of factors some of which we can't control ... and you can lose a lot of fat without seeing the scale move leading to frustration when you're actually making tremendous progress.

Reccomending cardio for fat loss is in my opinion not the greatest idea. It burns calories but not that many and does almost nothing for bodycomposition. So unless someone is specifically interested in building their endurance I think there are better uses of ones time.

To the OP - I personally didn't understand what you were driving at in your first post. If I insulted your intelligence I apologize. If you want exercise reccomendation you should lift heavy weights which it appears you're against for the wrong reasons (focus on weight and not fat.) If you want a structured program you should read NROL Abs or NROL for women. Weight lifting is the number one best thing you can do for fat loss. It burns calories during lifting - after lifting - retains muscle - builds bone density - and done correctly promotes full body fat burning.

If you have time - do cardio after lifting.

As for your eating plan - I don't care if you're seeing a nutritionist or not Calories dictate fat loss or gain. THE END. Most people will lose weight by counting carbs because it restricts caloric intake but if you eat enough protein and fat you can not only stall but gain weight. Yes - you know this because you're not stupid. Not everyone reading this is as smart as you.

Calories ALWAYS matter.

Justwant2Bhealthy
08-25-2012, 05:24 PM
Weight lifting is the number one best thing you can do for fat loss. It burns calories during lifting - after lifting - retains muscle - builds bone density - and done correctly promotes full body fat burning.

JOHN, thanks for explaining that. That's good information to know. It's true that some women seem to think that weight-lifting will make them look like the HULK ... which of course, isn't true. I have actually read posts on this site like that. I lift weights and don't look like a man or a body-builder. A few of the ladies have put pics of themselves in their avatars so that others can see how it gives them a nicer form.

I was wondering about something though. I have read/heard (not sure where now) that lifting (heavy) weights can promote fat burning around the clock. Is that true? Is it becuz it helps you retain your muscle which then in turn, burns fat continuously for you? Or, is this an exaggerated claim? And if so, for how long will it help? Would lifting weights 3 times a week be enough?

OP ~ I think the others have honestly tried to give you good advice; and I believe they all meant well, so I hope you take it in the spirit in which it was shared. :D

Prim2012
08-25-2012, 05:24 PM
JohnP, I respectfully disagree. If weight loss was always just about calories, everyone that ate the exact same things and performed the exact same activities would achieve the same results and we know that's not the case. Genetics play a role, hormones play a role that science is still trying to unravel. The fact that so many people take a superiority stance about it just simply being calories eaten versus burned is what creates so much frustration for those of us that know this isn't always how the pounds result.

No one has suggested that calories don't matter in any of the posts. No one has also spent time talking about fat loss versus weight loss. The OP poster focused her comments on the scale weight. The bottom line is both fat loss and weight loss matter to most of us. When I go to the doctor, they don't measure my fat, they measure my weight and form an opinion (right or wrong) about my health so ignoring weight is not an approach I plan to take.

TripSwitch
08-25-2012, 05:35 PM
You said you did a 5k? Than I would continue with running... set goals of doing a 10k, a half marathon, and than a marathon... You'll have achieved something amazing and trust me the weight will come off... The fittest (and thinest, but that was just a by product of all the training) that I have been in my life was when I was running 70 miles a week... I weighed 125lbs. and I'm 5'9" and I had a 27inch waist at the time... And to those that say running doesn't change body composition... Sorry but you're completely WRONG!!! long distance runners have some of the lowest body fat percentages on the planet... Body compositions that are a direct result of you guessed it... ALL THAT CARDIO... the math is simple... the longer you train... the more calories you burn... And well, you know how it goes from here...

JohnP
08-25-2012, 06:02 PM
JohnP, I respectfully disagree. If weight loss was always just about calories, everyone that ate the exact same things and performed the exact same activities would achieve the same results and we know that's not the case. Genetics play a role, hormones play a role that science is still trying to unravel. The fact that so many people take a superiority stance about it just simply being calories eaten versus burned is what creates so much frustration for those of us that know this isn't always how the pounds result.

You need to read my post again. You have completely and utterly missed the point I was making in the context to responding to the OP.

Read the OPs post about counting carbs and then ready my post again.

Calories always matter. Always. You can ingest literally zero carbs and gain fat if you eat enough protein and fat. That is my point. It is possible (though unlikely) that the OP while counting only carbs is eating maintinence calories. Most likely it is water but it could be she is simply eating too much.

I'm not takeing a "superiority stance" about it I am sticking to the facts. Do genetics/enviornment/hormones matter? Yes of course they do. None of those things change the energy equation. They only affect individual pieces of it. To take it a step further for most people genetics/environment/hormones play only a minor role in the energy equation but they certainly affect compliance factors signifcantly.

Most people want to make this super complicated and the vast majority of the time it isn't complicated it is simple but in the context of all the stuff happening in our lives it becomes complicated. That is why almost everyone who goes to live on a "Fat farm" will lose weight. They're not genetically screwed and when removed from their environment and cheating isn't possible they lose weight and lose it fast. Then they return to their environment and some keep their new habits but most return to their old.

None of this is secret information and knowing it doesn't make me superior. I'm only here because I want to help people and the best way to help people is to educate them.

This isn't complicated. Doesn't make it easy though.

JohnP
08-25-2012, 06:06 PM
I was wondering about something though. I have read/heard (not sure where now) that lifting (heavy) weights can promote fat burning around the clock. Is that true? Is it becuz it helps you retain your muscle which then in turn, burns fat continuously for you? Or, is this an exaggerated claim? And if so, for how long will it help? Would lifting weights 3 times a week be enough?

3 times a week is plenty. I would suggest either a 3x a week full body routine or following something like NROL.

The claims are exagerated. Muscle burns more energy than fat but not by much. The primary thing weight lifting does is activicate your body to adapt to the inputs. When you're new to lifting your body will partition calories towards building muscle and fat continues to burn. Many obese people are deficient in enzymes that help burn fat and weight lifting via glycogen depletion builds these up quickly. Carido does the same thing only it can take many weeks or months.

I'm not an expert on this topic but the bottom line is when you're new to lifting you can not only retain muscle but build it. Then when your "noobie gains" period is over weight lifting will help you retain muscle. The closer you get to your goal weight the more important having muscle is and not lifting means you will burn muscle along with fat.

Prim2012
08-25-2012, 06:14 PM
You need to read my post again. You have completely and utterly missed the point I was making in the context to responding to the OP.

Read the OPs post about counting carbs and then ready my post again.

Calories always matter. Always. You can ingest literally zero carbs and gain fat if you eat enough protein and fat. That is my point. It is possible (though unlikely) that the OP while counting only carbs is eating maintinence calories. Most likely it is water but it could be she is simply eating too much.

I'm not takeing a "superiority stance" about it I am sticking to the facts. Do genetics/enviornment/hormones matter? Yes of course they do. None of those things change the energy equation. They only affect individual pieces of it. To take it a step further for most people genetics/environment/hormones play only a minor role in the energy equation but they certainly affect compliance factors signifcantly.

Most people want to make this super complicated and the vast majority of the time it isn't complicated it is simple but in the context of all the stuff happening in our lives it becomes complicated. That is why almost everyone who goes to live on a "Fat farm" will lose weight. They're not genetically screwed and when removed from their environment and cheating isn't possible they lose weight and lose it fast. Then they return to their environment and some keep their new habits but most return to their old.

None of this is secret information and knowing it doesn't make me superior. I'm only here because I want to help people and the best way to help people is to educate them.

This isn't complicated. Doesn't make it easy though.

I'm not going to go back and forth over this with the "education". I could just as easily point out that you missed my points. Bottomline, to tell us that "calories always matter" is right up there with "people should drink water" or "don't eat 12 cheeseburgers" from an advice perspective and comes off as we're ignorant of even the basics.

jenlag
08-25-2012, 06:24 PM
Time for my two cents. I tipped the scales in 2005 at 292 pounds, but spent the majority of my adult life between 220 and 250. It's been 3 years and 2 months since I made the decision to change for good. I hit my lowest weight in November of 2010, 145 pounds and a size 6. My exercise regimen through that time was primarily cardio, doing Insanity. I have since then gained back some weight in which very little of it is additional fat, but also gained a lot of muscle from the latest program I am doing, which is ChaLean Extreme. It's lots of lifting, heavy weight lifting. My arms and shoulders are cut and defined, it's awesome. I'm in no way bulked though. My weights are 25lb adjustable dumb bells. My body is stronger than it has ever been and it feels phenomenal! I am ready to start integrating more cardio into my routines though because I don't feel I am getting enough.

The bottom line, for me, what works best is a combination of cardio and weight lifting. But if I personally had to pick between the two, I would choose weight training.

Regarding the scale, it is very important to a lot of us as there is a huge psychological connection to it and success. I totally get that. And I am a huge advocate of calories in and calories out, there has to be a deficit for your body to start using the stored fat as energy and burning it off.

jenlag
08-25-2012, 06:32 PM
http://steve-edwards.blogspot.com/2012/08/is-30-minutes-of-exercise-better-than.html

Check out this blog, I just so happened to read it earlier today and it is very relevant in my opinion. And it is exactly why I plan on doing the first 16 minutes of an Insanity video daily in addition to weight training.

"The first ten minutes of exercise is the key for most of us. This has been known for a long while but itís been getting a ton of play lately. A recent study showed that 10 minutes of exercise can be better than an hour if itís constructed correctly.

These 10 min studies highlight the importance of high intensity work and its effect on hormonal changes. While this study did not going into such depth, all exercise burns more calories in the first few minutes than when you settle in, no matter what you do. This means that you get the effect of high intensity training for a few minutes even when you arenít exercising hard. This is because you burn muscle glycogen when you begin exercising until your body is warmed up. Once warm, your body starts to conserve; using fat stores for low intensity movements and saving glycogen for high intensity outputs."

jenlag
08-25-2012, 06:36 PM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AsDUAp6hpXk

Above is a YouTube video. It is an audio excerpt of the motivation cd that comes with ChaLean Extreme. She explains why weight training is important, especially as we all get older.

For those of you hesitant to pick up a set of weight, I highly recommend you listen to it.

JohnP
08-25-2012, 07:46 PM
... to tell us that "calories always matter" is ... from an advice perspective and comes off as we're ignorant of even the basics.

I'm talking to the OP. I'd assume that someone like you who has lost over 100lbs knows that calories matter. You disagree with me but again we're talking about the OP, not you. Do you really think that genetics/enviornment/hormones is why the OP has been stalled for the short period of time she is? Me either.

I don't want to assume the OP knows that calories are the basis for fat loss or gain based on the context of the information in her post ...

Here is what I was respnding to ...

I lost it by just changing eating habits and watching carbs.

Steph7409
08-25-2012, 08:22 PM
Could I threadjack for a moment and ask jenlag: what kind of adjustable weights do you have? I recently bought 20 pound dumb bells but am already finding them too light for a couple of things. The adjustable sets seem really expensive so I'd love a recommendation.

KittyKatFan
08-25-2012, 08:40 PM
I can't share much on the results of scientific studies; I can only share my experiences with exercise.

When I first started my weight loss journey, I was in horrible physical shape and could only walk about five minutes without back pain. Pretty pathetic, huh? :(. I decided to start walking around the block. I live on an oval shaped block that is about 3/10 of a mile around, with some small hilly parts. I decided to do one lap, then up it by one each week. I did this until I was able to do 15-16 laps/day, 5 days/week.

Then I went to the gym and did different types of cardio: incline walking, elliptical, stair climber. I was very pleased with the improved cardio fitness.

At the beginning of the year, I added weight lifting 2-3 times/week. While the cardio gave me great endurance, the weights have been great at making me look thinner. I love my triceps :). I just look more compact.

For me, doing both weights and cardio have been beneficial. I wont argue with the people who believe that weights are the best thing to do for your health because I haven't done any research. They are probably right. But for me, getting into great physical shape has required both. I love that I can run five miles for the first time ever, and my blood pressure is as low as it has ever been. I FLY down the hallway at work now (which is important because the building I work in is half a mile long!).

At the same time, while I really don't enjoy lifting weights, the results have been tremendous. I can lift objects that are quite heavy now, and my arms are quite well toned. Wsh I didn't have chicken flap underarms though :( but you are young and won't have that problem.

Just start with something. Weights or cardio or both. Either one will help you improve your health.

Prim2012
08-25-2012, 09:33 PM
...the cardio gave me great endurance, the weights have been great at making me look thinner. I love my triceps :). I just look more compact.

For me, doing both weights and cardio have been beneficial. I wont argue with the people who believe that weights are the best thing to do for your health because I haven't done any research. They are probably right. But for me, getting into great physical shape has required both. I love that I can run five miles for the first time ever, and my blood pressure is as low as it has ever been. I FLY down the hallway at work now (which is important because the building I work in is half a mile long!).

At the same time, while I really don't enjoy lifting weights, the results have been tremendous. I can lift objects that are quite heavy now, and my arms are quite well toned. Wsh I didn't have chicken flap underarms though :( but you are young and won't have that problem.

Just start with something. Weights or cardio or both. Either one will help you improve your health.

This! I think your experience mirrors of lot of ours who start getting in shape with the cardio and then add weights to step up our fitness results (and overall body composition). I absolutely don't think cardio is a "waste of time". In fact, I think the best approach would be ensuring a balance of cardio and resistance training since they both offer different benefits. Like you, I could barely complete 1/2 a mile or walk up of stairs without being winded and needing to rest. This would not have improved for me with weight training only. I needed to get the cardio (heart health) fitness in. And yes, there are plenty of studies that support cardio fitness being beneficial to health conditions like high blood pressure and diabetes, etc. I also stretch which helps me with flexibility and injury avoidance. We all know exercise is good, period. You can burn calories (and fat) with cardio or weights so I don't know why there sometimes appears to be such harsh critique when people bring up cardio as their main program and I love my weights but to each their own. Besides, I'm pretty sure doing something you enjoy like walking on a consistent basis is more beneficial than doing something you "hate" and therefore, you are less consistent with or avoid all together.

jenlag
08-25-2012, 10:49 PM
Could I threadjack for a moment and ask jenlag: what kind of adjustable weights do you have? I recently bought 20 pound dumb bells but am already finding them too light for a couple of things. The adjustable sets seem really expensive so I'd love a recommendation.

I only wish I could afford the Bowflex SelectTech weights! I went with the Gold's gym version at Walmart. They go from 5-25 pounds each, and you can do 17.5 and 22.5 pounds, which is really cool. There are times I wish I had 30 pounds, but overall am very content with these. They were $60 each, for a total of $120.

I did find adjustable ones at Academy and they were 30 pounds, same price of $60 each, BUT I found that the tab used to adjust the weights was plastic and I was worried it would break. I asked a salesman if they get many returns for it breaking and he shrugged and said he'd seen a few.

I've been using these for 3 months now and am very satisfied. It's nice and neat, love the space saving considering I work out in my living room!

katiejames
08-26-2012, 10:46 AM
Of course I am counting calories and fat..duh? How else would I lose 40lbs without working out. Please don't act like we dont know anything..i do have a brain..

novangel
08-26-2012, 11:02 AM
I was going to offer up exercise advice, which you asked for, but I simply don't want to be a part of your overly defensive, nasty attitude. I may not tell you the exact advice you want to hear. Sorry, that isn't how it works.

Before you come on a forum asking for weightloss/exercise advice from a bunch of strangers (some that have successfully lost all their weight) maybe try being more receptive..We're not mind-readers and don't know all avenues you've already been trying.

You already have all the answers apparently so good luck.

luckymommy
08-26-2012, 11:51 AM
katiejames, I tried to give you the benefit of the doubt and I figured you were just feeling misunderstood, but frankly, I find your last post to be similar in attitude to that of a rebellious teen. Your insistence on your high level of intelligence is actually quite amusing because your first and last post don't demonstrate...well....I'll leave it at that....unless your goal is to come here and spew negativity. I've been on this board for years and about once a year someone appears to have some serious issues. I've always felt that you can reach someone through kindness and understanding (which I offered and you didn't even respond to, which is fine) and perhaps you've had some horrible childhood experience that has led you to have such a nasty attitude (though it's not really an excuse since many of us here have had some significant challenges). But at this point, I feel that you need professional help and I sincerely hope that you are not only seeing a nutritionist but also a psychologist.

DietVet
08-26-2012, 11:57 AM
I'm reluctant to step into this thread because the OP is being so nasty and awful (why did you ask for advice if you're going to crap all over those who give it to you!?!?!), but just to contribute to the weight training/cardio discussion (lest someone other than the OP be looking for advice):

I'm a fan of weight training--I love to do it and I fully agree with John P's arguments about why it is superior to cardio for fat loss. That said, cardio is good for the body and burning a few hundred calories through cardio several times a week probably doesn't hurt.

One thing that hasn't been mentioned yet is HIIT. The evidence strongly suggests that high intensity intervals are better than steady-state cardio for fat loss (plus you can do it more quickly). The time/fat loss ratio is much higher with HIIT than with steady-state cardio and there's something about the way it works that it causes your body to draw more directly from your fat stores during exercise.

Also, I find it far less boring. :)

Lyle McDonald has a pretty good series on it:
http://www.bodyrecomposition.com/fat-loss/steady-state-and-interval-training-part-1.html

JohnP
08-26-2012, 11:58 AM
This! I think your experience mirrors of lot of ours who start getting in shape with the cardio and then add weights to step up our fitness results (and overall body composition). I absolutely don't think cardio is a "waste of time". In fact, I think the best approach would be ensuring a balance of cardio and resistance training since they both offer different benefits. Like you, I could barely complete 1/2 a mile or walk up of stairs without being winded and needing to rest. This would not have improved for me with weight training only. I needed to get the cardio (heart health) fitness in. And yes, there are plenty of studies that support cardio fitness being beneficial to health conditions like high blood pressure and diabetes, etc. I also stretch which helps me with flexibility and injury avoidance. We all know exercise is good, period. You can burn calories (and fat) with cardio or weights so I don't know why there sometimes appears to be such harsh critique when people bring up cardio as their main program and I love my weights but to each their own. Besides, I'm pretty sure doing something you enjoy like walking on a consistent basis is more beneficial than doing something you "hate" and therefore, you are less consistent with or avoid all together.

I am not sure what forum you read but I haven't seen many people around calling cardio a waste of time or hating on it - merely that given a limited amount of time you're better off lifting weights than doing cardio in the context of fat loss and bodycomposition. Context matters.

It seems you have something to learn though about weight training and cardio vascular health. For a novice interested in fat loss they should be doing weight training that keeps their heart rate elevated. Doing a set of heavy squats for example should be pushing your heart rate way up to the 160-180 range depending on effort. After a month of weight training if you can't walk up stairs without being winded than you need to reevaluate what you're doing.

If fat loss is your goal you shouldn't be doing low volume maximum poundage work with 5 minutes between sets . Furthermore if someone is doing arm curls with pink dumbells than you're not going to build much work capacity or endurance ... (this is meant as an illustration of how not to do it - I am not implying that you are doing worthless arm curls with 5lb pink dumbells.)

DietVet
08-26-2012, 12:01 PM
Doing a set of heavy squats for example should be pushing your heart rate way up to the 160-180 range depending on effort. After a month of weight training if you can't walk up stairs without being winded than you need to reevaluate what you're doing.

Just want to back John up here. I wear an HRM when I exercise and my heart rate gets to the same number when I do squats and deadlifts as it does when I do sprints. Lifting heavy weights absolutely helps to condition the cardio-vascular system.

JohnP
08-26-2012, 12:01 PM
Hmmm seeing where this thread is heading I feel like making one final post here ...

(http://www.straferight.com/photopost/data/500/ibtl.gif)

Desiderata
08-26-2012, 12:13 PM
:lol: :lol: :lol:

John, that hilarious. :love: classic TNG

SerenityDiva
08-26-2012, 12:17 PM
John what about my 35 pound pink kettlebell...just sayin' :D Although technically it's more magenta.

Prim2012
08-26-2012, 12:24 PM
I think this thread deteriorated based on tone of the responses (on both parts) and not the content.

Steph7409
08-26-2012, 01:04 PM
Thanks for the info, jenlag! I work out in a small space, too, so I can't keep buying individual sets of dumb bells.

I always enjoy reading the threads about the different benefits of lifting and cardio, since I do both. Lots of good info here, in spite of the murky intent of the OP.