[CoffeeFueledUnicorn]

...and Health At Every Size, etc. A basic summary: The movement to show there's nothing wrong with being fat, that big can be beautiful and healthy, and to end the shaming of fat people in the media and everyday life.

I support some of the values the movement has. I do believe that beauty comes in all shapes and sizes, and that you should try to live as healthy a life as possible no matter how much you weigh. Most importantly, I hate the ridicule that fat people get and the way others brush it off, saying: "Well, they got that way, they deserve it." That's just ridiculous. A person is a person, and nobody deserves to be judged just by the way they look and the weight they're at.

However, there are the health risks that come with being heavier. I'm not going to say that I'm concerned with the health of random fat people I've never met, but they do exist. Even the lifestyle itself is harder, according to I've read on 3FC and in other places.

So what are your thoughts? I'm not going to debate anyone, I'm just curious.

[Candeka]

I believe that everyone has the right to feel beautiful and comfortable with who they are, no matter their size. However, the fat acceptance movement is very negative in my mind. It is one thing to love who you are, its another to encourage people to set themselves up for health issues which also put a major strain on our healthcare system just because "being big is beautiful".

I know that most bigger people say that they are healthy has a horse. However, at least from person experience, its far from the truth. Most of these people have not been to the doctor to get tested for the problems associated with weight issues.

No one should ever be ashamed for who they are and everyone should atleast some of the time feel beautiful in their own skin, but the fat acceptance movement is not the way to encourage it.

[kelly315]

I think often dieters and other obese people can be the harshest critics of the overweight/obese (I've been there, on both ends). I'm glad you brought that up because it's especially important that we are the ones who support movements like this.

[Nadya]

I don't think shaming people is good but I don't think the fat acceptance movement is a positive thing either. Accepting that you are drastically unhealthy is very negative when you could be making changes to your lifestyle instead of just accepting a bad situation. I know that heavier people can sometimes be quite healthy but I think, for the most part, they aren't and it should never be accepted. They just shouldn't be treated badly for it either.

[kaplods]

If I had never encountered FA rhetoric, I firmly believe that I'd weigh more than 500 lbs and would be in a wheelchair (if I was mobile at all).

I joined FA after finding the magazines Radiance and BBW (the former being a fat-activism magazine and the latter being a plus-sized fashion magazine). I didn't agree with all the rhetoric, but I was quite compelled by the research and argument that traditional dieting contributed far more to weight gain than to weight loss.

Eventually I gave up dieting entirely and focused on eating healthy food, when I felt hungry, and just as the FA articles in Radiance predicted, my weight stabilized. Although finally going onto birth control also helped significantly, but I wouldn't have gone onto birth control either, if it weren't for FA rhetoric either. I had suffered severe PMDD since my first period in 4th grade at age 9 or 10. From the age of 12, doctors had been telling me that birth control "might" control the symptoms, but that weight gain was the most significant risk. Before I encountered FA rhethoric, I saw "fat" as so evil, that I was willing to put up with insane rage and wish-for-death pain because it "couldn't be worse" than gaining weight. Ironically, the birth control nearly eliminated the rabid-hunger I experienced every month (that was responsible for most of my weight gain over the course of my lifetime).

Ironically, if I hadn't been so afraid of fat - , so afraid of risking weight gain, I probably could have gotten my weight under control in middle-school.


In FA, I also encountered the idea that my fat didn't make me lazy, crazy, stupid, or selfish. It just made me fat, and that wasn't a sin, a crime, or an unforgiveable weakness of character. It was just fat.

And for the first time I also encountered the idea that I deserved to have a full, rich, and rewarding life NOW, not just when/if I lost the weight - and that furthermore it wasn't my responsibility to protect decent-folk from the sight of my fat.

I had the right to be in public, I had the right to be active and enjoy myself in public, and I even had the right to bare my fat flesh to wear comfortable clothes, and (most shocking of all) actually had the right to swim in a swimming suit without covering myself with a heavy t-shirt that made swimming uncomfortable. I had the right to swim, dance, even sing and draw attention TO myself, and I deserved love, and respect while doing so. And I deserved a love life too, if I wanted one - and not all men were disgusted at the sight of me.

And not only did I have a RIGHT to all these great things, women and men just like me, were actually doing all these great things. I read articles showing men and women of all shapes and sizes of fat, being active, and doing things that I thought fat folks weren't able (or supposed to do). Horseback riding, swimming, kayaaking, mountain climbing.... my fat didn't have to stop me from doing any of it.

I actually CRIED when I read an article about a 300+ pound woman horseback riding, because when I was in 5th grade (so about 10 or 11) my mother wouldn't let me go horseback riding with my girlscout troup because I "would swayback the horse." I weighed a little over 200 lbs at the time.

I really thought I was too heavy for a horse.

Learning to live my life to the fullest, and to focus on eating healthy and exercising without obsessing about the number or how fast (or whether) I was losing.

If I had felt that health and exercise was more important than weight loss, I never would have taken insane health risks to lose weight. If I had focused on the healthy habits and not on the number on the scale, I would have had greater success, much earlier.... if only I had seen eating healthy and exercising as ways to reward and pamper my wonderful, amazing self - instead of punishments I deserved for the unforgiveable crime of being fat.

And I know that, because when I DID see eating healthfully and being active as ways to pamper myself, and when I DID focus on maintaining the healthy changes more than on the exact number, I did start making health improvements that eventually led to weight loss. But for me, the self-respect had to come first. The refusal to believe (as our culture often teaches us) that I was a disgusting, worthless mess no matter how much success I had in other areas of my life.

I wouldn't have met and married my wonderful husband (who doesn't prefer overweight women, but did date through many of the FA and BBW websites, because the women there were less judgemental of his weight issues).

I still would have found the courage to swim, because I always loved to swim - but I would not have learned to swim when I wanted to, rather than only swimming when the pool was going to be the least crowded so people wouldn't have to be disgusted by my ginormous fatness.

I wouldn't have bought a bicycle (I can only ride it on very good days, because of balance and joint problems), but the experience was tremendous anyway, and it inspired me to start saving for an adult tricycle, so that I can ride it until I can ride the bike (and maybe I never will, but at least now I'm not so ashamed of myself that I wouldn't be caught dead on a bicycle - let alone a tricycle).

If I hadn't discovered FA, I would still think that I deserve to be hated and punished, and I wouldn't have felt as if I deserved any better. When you hate someone, it's difficult to want to do nice things for that person - even when the person is yourself (maybe especially when it's yourself).

If I didn't think I deserved everything that life had to offer, I would have continued to punish myself with crash diets until I couldn't stand the pain anymore I'd console (not reward) myself with food - and food (and books) would be the only comfort I had in my life.

I won't go back to having nothing but food in my life, because I thought I didn't deserve more. And the scariest part of this to me, is that I never thought that I thought those things. I thought I had self-confidence, and self-esteem. I always thought "Hey, I'm pretty fabulous for a fat-chick,"

... but to really succeeed I had to learn to realize there is no qualifier. I'm not pretty fabulous for a fat-chick, I'm just simply pretty fabulous.

And fabulous people deserve to do the best for themselves. And that's why I'm succeeding now, because I'm not exercising and changeing my diet to punish the worthless, disgusting me. I'm doing it to pamper the fabulous me.

And I can thank FA for making me realize that I am fabulous and worthy now, not just "some day when I get thin."

[Arctic Mama]

I am not personally a fan of the movement at all, I find it kind of obnoxious. That said, it's actual stated goals aren't objectionable, but my opinion of it is neutral to negative, even though I have always had a good body image and not loved or accepted myself (or others) less at any particular size.

I find most advocacy groups incredibly annoying.

[CoffeeFueledUnicorn]

Even though I'm neutral on the movement, that was a beautiful post, kaplods. I'm so happy to hear that you see yourself in a new light when most of the world is against you.

That's really the part of the FA movement I support, to be honest.

[JohnP]

I'll admit until reading Kaplods post I was anti FA movement because the few people I know are quite obnoxious about it dispite knowing that you can be quite healthy and also overweight.

At this point I'll consider myself FA neutral.

[memememe76]

I always view advocates as espousing and holding a viewpoint to its farthest point so other people don't have to. I don't judge the movement based on its outliers. Basically, I'd rather be "Fat rocks!" than "Fat sucks!" Unless there stories pop up of FA high school students mocking thin students in gym class, I'll support the FA movement. Although it's not like I'm gonna donate money to them.

[sontaikle]

Like Kaplods, the fat acceptance movement was beneficial to me.

I found it and realized that hey, I'm a person and I'm beautiful; it doesn't matter if Im fat. I gained 1000x more confidence and that eventually led me to where I am today.

I would also NOT have the career I do, without the fat acceptance movement, and if there is something I was created to do on this Earth it was teach children with special needs. Without the confidence I gained from the movement there is no way I would have made it through grad school and student teaching. I probably wouldn't have even tried!

However, the move's anti-dieting (and in some cases extreme anti-dieting) approach really turned me off. I remember reading a blog when I was new to the movement and it talked about people who lost weight. The writer said they would never congratulate a person on their weight loss and if asked why they would say that the person was simply trying to fit in with society and implied it was a very negative thing.

I remember thinking: "If the movement is about health at every size, then why can't a person willingly choose to change their size?"

It's one of the things that really bothers me about MOST of the FA movement: they can be healthy at their size but if you try to lose weight then you're EVIL EVIL EVIL and just giving into society's pressures. I don't know; if someone wants to be thin then I think that's their prerogative...it doesn't change anything about anyone else.

I DO know of some bloggers that take a similar stance to mine in that: hey it's your body, do whatever the **** you want with it but leave me alone.

I think THAT'S the view that most of us should take unless we're truly talking about serious health problems...I don't understand why so many of us are invested in how other people's bodies work!

I've lost some friends because I was FA and now I'm thin, but I stressed to my friends that my losing weight wasn't changing any of my views or reflecting on them; I just wanted to do it (and even now if you ask me I cannot give you a straight answer). I am healthier though; I hardly ate vegetables before and I ate with wild abandon. Learning about portion sizes, eating more real foods than not, and lifting heavy have helped me become a healthier person—I just happened to drop a lot of weight in the process.

[kaplods]

The reason I dropped out of NAAFA was the anti-loss rhetoric. As if losing weight (even unintentionally) was an unforgiveable betrayal.

This isn't relegated to just fat acceptance groups though. In the deaf community (I should say in a segment of the deaf community), surgically correcting deafness (whether in an adult, child, or infant) can be just as controversial. Even HAVING a hearing child can be seen as a disappointment rather than a blessing.

I think such a counter culture stance is a factor of feeling so vilified, rejected and discriminated against, that anything at all like the majority-culture ends up being villified as well. "If my culture and the majority of people in it vilifies, rejects and discriminates strongly against me, I will vilify, reject, and discriminate against the culture and anyone who sides with the majority.

It's stupid, but it's very human, but it's one of the reasons I didn't renew my NAAFA membership (way back in the late 90's) and stopped reading most of the FA literature. It was not only the group's fringe anti-thin message, but the conflict of interest in the organization. NAAFA and other FA groups, are closely affiliated with the BBW/BBM dating and hook-up websites.

The idea is great on the surface, but not so much in practice (because of the tacit and sometimes overt support of fat and feeder fetishes). How much respect would the NAACP have gotten or deserved, and how much social advancement would the civil rights movement have made, if the NAACP sponsored events and a dating-service that encouraged (or even just overlooked) the fact that old, racist, white guys were using the service to find and sexually-exploit young black men and women.

I don't know if NAAFA still encourages and accepts the pro-feeding and fat-fetish behavior, but I became very uncomfortable with that aspect of the movement. That and bigotry and double standards as worse or more than the majority culture dishes out. Encountering extremely fat women who wouldn't date fat men, or men who weren't absolutely gorgeous because they didn't have to. There are a lot more men who are attracted specifically to fat women than women (of any size) who are attracted to fat men (especially very fat men).

The feeder fetish folks disturbed me the most (the idea that fat is so sexy that getting fatter and fatter is a wonderful goal, and any weight loss intentional or otherwise is akin to treason).

The hostility and lack of acceptance for the members who were fat, but "not fat enough." The mildy overweight person (especially of the female gender - because thin fat-admirers were accepted) often were targets of abuse (or at the very least, completely ignored).

I think the dating and sexual aspect, especially the acceptance of the feeder and fat fetishes and the attitude that "only very fat people are cool" diminishes and even destroys the credibility of the group, and even worse it diminishes the ideals that the group espouses - acceptance for all people, regardless of shape and size (and that even SHOULD mean the people who CHANGE their size, intentionally or not).

When I joined, I thought the extremists and thin-bigotry were confined to the minority fringe, but when I found that the extreme opinions and hypocritical beliefs/actions were quite common (or maybe just more vocal and showy about it), that left a bad taste in my mouth. I couldn't rationalize suporting the organization (except by occasionally buying the magazines, until the hypocricy and bigotry started filtering in them as well.

I still wish I could find a decent plus-sized fashion and lifestyle magazine. It was so inspirational to see beautiful fat women, in beautiful clothes (even if I couldn't afford most of them) and read about fat people doing amazing things - while still fat (not just after they lost 150 lbs). I liked the HAES articles advocating healthy behavioral changes - articles on eating whole foods, and exercising, and articles about athletic fat folk, with practical tips for those of us who weren't yet capable of being that athletic.

It's nice to feature an article about a 350 lbs horsewoman, competitive swimmer, or decathalon competitor, but without practical advice on how to begin down the path to a more active lifestyle, it's not much different than being pro-weightloss without giving practical advice. The theory is often useless without some guide to it's practice.

Same with the HAES movement. It's great to tell folks "health at every size is possible," or "even if you can't lose weight, you CAN be healthy, without advice on how to get started, you might as well have said nothing, because some people believe that health is an accident of luck. That some folks are healthy and others are not. And that attitude hurts both thin and fat people.

One thing I do like about the HAES rhetoric that I've read, is that healthy behaviors are strongly encouraged - for both thin and fat people. The couch potatoes (both the fat ones and the thin ones) are encouraged to get off the couch and start moving. Eating more whole foods and fewer junk is recommended for everyone.

The idea is that if all of your behaviors are healthy, and you work at optimal health (rather than a specific number on the scale), the weight will take care of itself - your body will gravitate to a healthy weight for you (which may be bigger or smaller than is normally considered healthy).

Believing this does keep me motivated to continue making healthy changes. If the weight loss stops, I will continue making healthy changes, not in order to lose weight, but in order to continue making health improvements.

The biggest disservice we do fat folk in our culture, is perpetuating the belief that only making it to goal weight counts for anything. Being a little fat is often seen as being no worse than being super, morbidly obese. If we can't be thin (or think we can't) then we might as well get to eat whatever we want, at least until we decide to "start over."

If you read the articles in popular women's magazines (until recently) you would conclude that making small changes to your diet and exercise were virtually pointless (remember when they told us that we had to exercise for at least 30 minutes to get any benefit at all, probably because they weren't measuring for small improvements, just huge ones in health or weight loss).

Small changes, small results... NOT no results.

[CherryQuinn]

I had bad experiences with FA. I was on a FA forum and it seemed like 95% of the ppl there were 400+lbs and were pushing others to be. I had one guy tell me I will never be sexy because I was at the time only 335lbs..only. It was a topic on wear to buy clothes and he randonly popped in and said that LOL. He wasn't the only person on the FA with those views, it was mostly only ppl that are so big that can no longer walk are worth talking too or awknowleding because anyone under 400lbs is a sheep trying to be anorexic. One girl had a bunch of ppl pressuring her so hard to gain weight she started packing on the lbs, a girl that was like 18 yrs old, she gained 200+lbs for their pressure. By the time I left the sight out of sheer disgust at their attitudes she was pushing 450. There were ppl on that site that were so big their husbands and children had to do everything for them-cook, clean, bathe them, dress them, comb their hair, wheel them around the house, work 2 jobs to buy special size furniture or doctor care for them, they were basically slaves to this other persons fat.

I believe in giving respect to everyone but to believe that being so big you destroy your ability to walk and destroy the lives of those who love you the most, to believe that being so big is so grand that you pressure others to balloon up as well and endanger their lives and forever change their lives. it was insane. If you wanna be 600lbs, fine. but don't make up garbage about it not having negative effects and bring down others with you.

[Ciao]

i feel like since i've always accepted people no matter what size, race, religion, etc., i don't care much about the FA movement.

while i see how the FA movement is trying to encourage others to stop discriminating and accept everyone at any size, i still have a hard time accepting how unhealthy it is to be bigger.

yeah, i'll love you at any size you are, but will i love that you choose to eat a cheeseburger or pizza instead of some steamed vegetables? no.

i'm all for loving yourself. but rather than just your outward appearance to love, try loving the inside of your body too by giving it proper nutrition.

[COchick]

Just wanted to pop in and thank Kaplods for the great posts.

[CoffeeFueledUnicorn]

I'd like to point out that even though there are layers of thinness/diet bashing in the FA movement, the feeding and weight gain fetish is another topic entirely. The goal of the FA movement is to promote the acceptance, not the fetishism of fat people.