General chatter - Transgender question.
04-23-2012, 08:55 PM
So, I had a really close friend who was a woman and was a lesbian through and through, 100%, never wanted to touch a penis EVER. HATED them.
Then she decided she wanted to become a man.
...and now she's taking the hormones to eventually have the surgery and considers herself a man...and is now gay....with men.
Anyone have an explanation for this?
I would have asked him, but we are no longer friends due to his Christianity bashing on facebook all the time and he never wanted to answer any questions that anyone had.
I'm just very very confused as to how you go from being a gay woman to being a gay man?
04-23-2012, 09:00 PM
That's an interesting situation. Only he can answer, of course, but the first thing I think of is that he's attracted to people that he is physically similar to.
04-23-2012, 09:03 PM
Who knows? It could be that he is attracted to both men and women. It could be that he had some issues with his own identification. Since various transgender persons experience differs, I think that he is tell the only person who answer. I also think that people have the right to privacy and don't have to answer questions he don't want to.
Also, this kind of thing generally doesn't happen overnight. Transgender people tend to know something is not quite right from a very early age in that their gender doesn't match thir sex. It may take them many years to accept or admit it to others. It seems like a very difficult situation and I'd wish anyone that is transgendered the best.
04-23-2012, 09:34 PM
How funny that you brought this up. I have a friend who is transgender. She has almost completed her transformation.
We JUST had a chat about Hollywood and plastic surgery and she is totally against it. She scolded Heidi Montag for her transformation. I found that ironic.
04-23-2012, 09:49 PM
Well, it is strange as that's not the 'typical' path. If there is any such thing as typical. Transgender people typically know from childhood that they feel 'wrong' - like a girl when they have boy parts or reverse. It has nothing to do with sexual preferences, but their own sex (male/female) identity. Then of course, there is sexual attraction - we are either attracted sexually to males or females or both.
Seems to me that your ex-friend was not honest in some way - either to all his/her friends or even to himself. Who knows what as you aren't speaking and can't know. But, as you can imagine, these things can be complicated, especially when growing up in a society where things are either taboo or misunderstood at best.
04-23-2012, 09:51 PM
I have read some things about the effects of hormones prenatally on susceptible brain tissue in fetuses. Perhaps there are some people who are genetically susceptible to excessive influence from sex hormones. Animals can be manipulated with hormones and chemicals to exhibit homosexual tendencies from the time they reach sexual maturity. Perhaps this person is one who has been exposed to something early on, or has genetic changes that have influenced brain chemistry. Or it could be a reaction to some sort of traumatic event in life coming out as transsexualism. I know a woman who claims to be straight because she dates women who are living as men. She feels that because she dates these "men" that that makes her straight, when in reality she is still attracted sexually to women. If these people had gender reassignment surgery, I don't feel that she would be able to stay and be attracted to them. She admitted to being sexually molested as a child, and so I believe that her warped view of heterosexual is a protective mechanism to remain "normal" while not being vulnerable with a man. There is much that is not understood about sexuality, and some of that is because of societal influence and culture,as well as science.
04-23-2012, 10:19 PM
Maybe he was so affiliated with being gay that he wanted to identify as same sex through and through. First female with female, then male with male. If you have been gay for a long period of time, suddenly having to identify as straight would be difficult.
I briefly dated a 100% straight guy while I was living in NY. It didn't work out for us, but afterwards he started toying with same sex relationships. It ended up being a battle for him to determine how he wanted to identify: straight, bi, or gay. Then to my surprise he started toying with cross dressing until he finally had the whole operation to become a woman. Now he (or rather she) has totally flip-flopped and acts as a straight woman and dates straight men.
But in the end, does it matter who someone finds attractive? I am bi and love both genders equally. I feel no different mentally, physically, or emotionally when I am with a man or a women.
04-23-2012, 10:32 PM
There are some fascinationg case histories of folks who have undergone spontaneous changes in sexual preference. From gay to straight, and from straight to gay (that is in hetero people who never had any homosexual experiences or fantasies until their sexual orientations just changed, sometimes suddenly, sometimes gradually.)
The "triggers" for the sudden sexual orientation changes, have included things like hormones (either spontaneous hormonal changes, or the perso taking hormone drugs and not just the hormone therapies for sex change, but other hormone drugs for other conditions), brain tumors, and head injuries.
To me, it makes a rather strong claim for gender and sexual orientation being largely physiological. It does create a dilemma when it comes to Christian doctrine, and some homosexual people as a result have an understandable difficulty with Christianity. If Christianity demanded that all folks be abstinent or practicing homosexuals and declared that only homosexual marriage would now be considered the only legitimate union - I'm not sure I could be a Christian. I haven't the foggiest idea how to change my sexual orientation (and I certainly wouldn't want to play around with hormones or head injuries to try).
Sexuality, gender identity, and sexual orientation and sexual preferences are extremely confident.
As a Christian, I try to understand church doctrine, but I'm always left wondering "what about the intersexed?" What about people with XXY (are they men or are they women)? What about the people born with the sexual characteristics opposite to their genetic sex? Which determines their gender - the chromosones or the body characteristics. What about the people born with the sexual characteristics of both. Can a true hermaphrodite marry? And who must they marry? Another hermaphrodite? If they marry a man and the man passes away, can they then marry a woman - or do you have to "pick a gender and stick with it?"
These are much more difficult questions than I believe some Christian churches are willing to deal with. They want to make it a simple issue, and I don't believe it is. I think it's extremely complicated.
I have to admit it's one of my biggest areas of questioning (and it's not even "my" issue, because I'm entirely hetero), but I do know that I certainly couldn't change my sexual orientation AND I'd have problems with lifetime celibacy, so I can hardly judge anyone else for struggling with either.
Maybe that makes me a bad Christian, but I'm not sure it does. I think it's just one of those issues (for me, at least) that I need to let God sort out.
04-23-2012, 11:27 PM
My fiance is Transgendered. We started out as best friends, transitioned into "Lesbians", and after his surgery and the hormones we're now both considered "Straight". At least to people who don't know us anyways. I think our families think we're nuts! Haha. :) Anyways, in actuality I am a bisexual female and my fiance is a straight male. We met in high school and became very close over the course of those years. I fell in love with him because of his personality, his sense of humor, his loyalty and intelligence and so many other things. It didn't matter that he was a girl at the time. It didn't matter when he confessed that he loved me, but he wasn't comfortable being a girl. It wasn't my choice to make, and he made it pretty clear that he didn't want to lose me, but if I couldn't understand I was free to leave. It was something he had to do, and I respected him all the more for being so honest and brave and putting it out there. I have the utmost respect for anyone who makes that difficult decision and does what's best for their quality of life, instead of just living to everyone else's standards or expectations.
As for your friend, I will say that his dislike of Christianity may be due to a phobia of the hatred and nonacceptance that Christianity typically breeds. My guy is immensely uncomfortable with anything related to Christianity; we may not even be getting married in a church. It doesn't help that his mother is very religious either, but I believe many people of the LGBTQ persuasion are commonly uncomfortable with Christianity. Or at least uncomfortable with those who would persecute them or could harbor such hate for them because of who they are or who they love. It can be scary, being on that side of things, and knowing that there are people out there who could so easily hate you or even harm you without knowing a dang thing about you except for who you're with.
That said, each individual is just that: individual. Only your friend can know what he's going through, and it's his decision if he wants to share something so incredibly personal as that. He might feel scared, or like people are attacking or interrogating him and demanding that he explain his motives for being who he is. That's the only insight I can offer.
I sincerely hope you two will rekindle your friendship though, and that what happens in his personal life can stay personal and not interfere with what could otherwise perhaps be a rewarding mutual relationship. Unless of course he's really just a dick... in which case, do what's best for YOU, and try not to think about him and his issues, whatever those may be. :halffull: Life is too short to think about every person who has entered and then left your life. If there isn't room for him in yours, then stop making room by worrying or letting him occupy your thoughts. Move on, completely and fully. That's the best advice I can give you.
04-23-2012, 11:36 PM
Thanks everyone, this kind of clears it up.
04-23-2012, 11:46 PM
Your friend is simply following their own journey to finding who they are or who they are comfortable being.
I believe gender is a social construct and not defined by physicality and it is fluid.
04-24-2012, 12:08 AM
I wish I could "Like" nearly every response to this thread. Too bad this isn't Facebook! ;)
04-24-2012, 01:36 AM
I have a good friend who is transgendered. She told me that the hormones sometimes will change your sexual orientation. She started off a straight man who secretly considered himself bi. And is now a woman married to another woman who both seem to be straight. Sexual orientation is complicated and can't always fit into a box. Could be she was confused most of her life and was more attracted to the lesbian culture than in other women.
04-24-2012, 08:44 AM
This is a very peculiar case of transgender change.. but in the end I can only say - I hope that he is happy!
04-24-2012, 10:56 AM
The path to finding yourself doesn't have to make sense to anyone except you. I'm sorry that you couldn't stay friends - bashing people's personal beliefs is a pretty good way to alienate people who care about you.
04-24-2012, 05:31 PM
Very same thing happened to my ex-(girlfriend then boyfriend). I don't know if this is what it was, but giving up the "gay" identification is difficult. I considered myself a lesbian for most of my young adult years, though I was secretly attracted to men at times, but being "bisexual" was frowned upon. Now I claim bisexual and to heck with what others think. But as I am now in a long-term, committed relationship with a man, I definitely do not fit in with the gay community anymore and I do miss that.
I think in the end, gender and sexuality are far more fluid that most people are comfortable believing.
04-24-2012, 06:22 PM
I think in the end, gender and sexuality are far more fluid that most people are comfortable believing.
Very well said!!