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threenorns
04-21-2012, 02:24 PM
so as some of you have read, my daughter's father and i got right into it the other day. it was bad - really really bad - and it went on most of the night and the next morning.

it got so bad that i told him if he dropped dead, i'd step over him on the way to the kettle for a cup of tea before i looked around for his cell phone to call 911 because it wasn't going to be on my dime.

that got to him - he snapped his mouth shut, went to his room, and only the next morning did i realize he'd been crying (his eyes, like mine, were puffy and swollen). he asked me if i meant it and i told him with the way he had me feeling, so bad and so horrible, yes, i did at at the time.

he put his head down, nodded a couple times, then said "okay" and went back to his room.

we were able to actually speak after that - no more of his joshing and snarky jokes and turning everything into a sex comment.

now, he does have a fair criticism about the housekeeping. i don't do it. i'm not good at it, i don't like doing it, and i always figured since he's the pro (having run a janitorial business for how many years) it just made sense to let him take charge.

i forgot about the cultural end - in his culture (hindu/east indian/trini), for a man to be doing housework is very shaming. a woman who doesn't do housework is a disgrace. that is what he grew up with nearly all his life.

however, i like doing things like splitting wood, working on the car, fixing the electrical in the house, building and repairing computers, putting in the bathroom fan, puttnig down laminate, etc. i like doing it and i'm good at it. he HATES doing that stuff. the car is so overdue for a tune-up that half the time it won't even start. the stuff's all there - it's been in the trunk since last summer - but he won't do it. it's all "manana, manana" and when i suggested i could do it, that was another fight.

i asked him why is it such a big deal that i do housework just bec i'm a female and he works on the car just bec he's a male when we suck at those things and don't even like doing them so they never get done?

he said "that's just how it is".


sacha
04-21-2012, 03:03 PM
Look from this and your other thread I have to be honest, how on earth can you let your child grow up and witness this? Have you been in such a dysfunctional household for so long that this is normal? I'm guessing you just want to rant and aren't really interested in changing the situation but holy heck this is one emotionally abusive home to raise a child in.

Sorry. But this is a terrible example for a child

brkfstclbgrl
04-21-2012, 06:39 PM
I know therapy is expensive, but that might be a good option for you two. Just my two cents.


threenorns
04-21-2012, 06:56 PM
Look from this and your other thread I have to be honest, how on earth can you let your child grow up and witness this? Have you been in such a dysfunctional household for so long that this is normal? I'm guessing you just want to rant and aren't really interested in changing the situation but holy heck this is one emotionally abusive home to raise a child in.

Sorry. But this is a terrible example for a child


where did you get the idea she is sitting there with a tub of popcorn?

i already made it very clear to him that this does not go on in front of her. the fight we had the other night was after she was asleep downstairs. when he started to get loud, i put on the ambient music on and shut the door. we were upstairs and i've checked: it's not physically possible for anybody to hear conversations (even yelling) from upstairs down in my room (and vice versa - i can blast the music but if my door's closed, you can *barely* hear it upstairs.

that's why i left him for 3yrs, bec he kept freaking out on my in front of her and told him if he cannot act like the husband he wants her to have, then she cannot be around him. when he moved up here and i got stuck with him, that was the ground rule: in front of her, he is to show me nothing but respect. when she's present, we might not be sunshine and roses to each other but we maintain the civilities.

i could leave him again - it's all set if i need to - but i have to consider my daughter: from her PoV, everything is fine. suddenly, here i am bundling her up onto the bus to go to Alberta and she's not going to see her father any more. that's a **** of a thing to do a 5yr old.

he's very unstable and not too pleasant as a partner but when it comes to being a father, he is excellent - i have no issues that way. he genuinely loves her and is very patient with her.

if he was a TOTAL dead loss, then i'd've written him off long ago.


if there's one thing that should be evident from my posts, it's that i'm not of subpar intelligence.

another thing to consider is that nobody ever posts "today was a nice day. nothing happened. he made scrambled eggs, i ate them." the only time anyone posts it's bec things have gotten complicated or something out of the ordinary has happened. so next time, before you go rushing to judgement, how about you ask questions to get relevant information before you assume you know enough to get all Judgemental Judy on someone.

Justwant2Bhealthy
04-21-2012, 08:42 PM
And the answer is ... tradition! ;)

mirax3
04-21-2012, 09:28 PM
I know where you are coming from. I am in a serious relationship with a man who is from North Africa and I experience somewhat of the same thing. He doesn't get angry or anything if I don't clean up, but he subconsciously expects me to do it. He is very willing to do housework but I think somewhere deep inside he sort of expects that I will do it before he gets to it. This is not uncommon in any household, though. I've spent time in many different countries and have seen a similar trend. Even in the U.S. you will find men that expect their wives to do all the housework. Bottom line is how they were raised. If their mother did all of the work in the house, subconsciously as I said, I think that that's what they are used to seeing and it is the "norm".

Hope your situation gets better, by the way.

samcakes
04-21-2012, 11:41 PM
I have to applaud you for standing up for yourself threenorns!

i understand what its like to be in a rocky relationship, and i know what it is like from your daughters end too. kids are smarter then we give them credit for though, and it is possible that she senses that there are issues.

its hard being in a relationship with someone that is so different, its no ones fault, you were both just raised very differently, and the fact that he is a good father doesnt mean YOU have to suffer. he can be a good dad if you arent together too, and from the sounds of your other posts, it sounds like he isnt really willing to change like you are.

sometimes people that were perfect for eachother once, grow apart. but its up to you to know if its time to call it quits.

fitness4life
04-22-2012, 01:36 AM
Please distinguish for yourself if this is cultural or abusive. Trust your gut because many traditional culturalisms can be modern abuses.

I left my husband because I finally figured out that modern people don't tolerate cultural abusive traditions.

The key components were words like...instead of hearing "where I come from, the female does this part, the male does that part" I heard, "You are useless to me" and "I have to do everything because you just suck".

There are ways to navigate life. How one does this defines what's healthy and what's cultural norm, no matter whatever everyone else wants to throw into their opinion of right or wrong for gender roles.

How does he treat you? If you are feeling it's abusive, please look into it more. You can PM me any time. I feel I've read enough that I should have a degree on the topic. I don't. But I certainly can share info with you to decipher for yourself what help you may or may not need.

Best wishes to you.

serendipity907
04-23-2012, 04:45 AM
My only real thought would be, even if he is a great dad to his daughter, there is going to be a point where you can't hide it from her. Kids pick up on things, and as she gets older she will realize what's going on.

ade903
04-23-2012, 02:28 PM
where did you get the idea she is sitting there with a tub of popcorn?

i already made it very clear to him that this does not go on in front of her. the fight we had the other night was after she was asleep downstairs. when he started to get loud, i put on the ambient music on and shut the door. we were upstairs and i've checked: it's not physically possible for anybody to hear conversations (even yelling) from upstairs down in my room (and vice versa - i can blast the music but if my door's closed, you can *barely* hear it upstairs.

so next time, before you go rushing to judgement, how about you ask questions to get relevant information before you assume you know enough to get all Judgemental Judy on someone.

Kids aren't stupid. She is going to pick up that your relationship is awful, she is going to think that is normal, and she is going to find herself in the same situation. Do you want that for her?

And really, don't post your problems for the whole world to see and expect to hear what you want to hear back. I agree completely with sacha. And now you just look tacky because you were rude to her. Everything that you have posted about your daughter's father is awful. Don't expect us to not be judgmental if that's all you post. Even if he was nice more than a jerk, the stuff you post about him would be MORE than enough for me to get the heck out of there.

berryblondeboys
04-23-2012, 02:51 PM
If the housework is a problem - culturally or what ever - hire someone to do it for you.

Most men, I don't care where they are from, like a tidy house. They might be slobs themselves, but they feel loved when their home is well kept. (and I'm not talking about being a neat freak - just not messy) They don't care how it gets that way as long as they don't have to do it. So, if you don't want to do it (and I completely understand that). Hire someone to do it for you.

sacha
04-23-2012, 03:25 PM
where did you get the idea she is sitting there with a tub of popcorn?

i already made it very clear to him that this does not go on in front of her. the fight we had the other night was after she was asleep downstairs. when he started to get loud, i put on the ambient music on and shut the door. we were upstairs and i've checked: it's not physically possible for anybody to hear conversations (even yelling) from upstairs down in my room (and vice versa - i can blast the music but if my door's closed, you can *barely* hear it upstairs.

that's why i left him for 3yrs, bec he kept freaking out on my in front of her and told him if he cannot act like the husband he wants her to have, then she cannot be around him. when he moved up here and i got stuck with him, that was the ground rule: in front of her, he is to show me nothing but respect. when she's present, we might not be sunshine and roses to each other but we maintain the civilities.

i could leave him again - it's all set if i need to - but i have to consider my daughter: from her PoV, everything is fine. suddenly, here i am bundling her up onto the bus to go to Alberta and she's not going to see her father any more. that's a **** of a thing to do a 5yr old.

he's very unstable and not too pleasant as a partner but when it comes to being a father, he is excellent - i have no issues that way. he genuinely loves her and is very patient with her.

if he was a TOTAL dead loss, then i'd've written him off long ago.


if there's one thing that should be evident from my posts, it's that i'm not of subpar intelligence.

another thing to consider is that nobody ever posts "today was a nice day. nothing happened. he made scrambled eggs, i ate them." the only time anyone posts it's bec things have gotten complicated or something out of the ordinary has happened. so next time, before you go rushing to judgement, how about you ask questions to get relevant information before you assume you know enough to get all Judgemental Judy on someone.

Hey, you are the one living in a dysfunctional house, not me. Maybe you've been in it so long that you think these things you say are normal. Well, they aren't. Your child is not a fool, she will start to realize that things in her home are not right. You can pretend your child is deaf and blind all you want, that isn't going to change that children are intelligent little sponges.

You constantly post about an unhappy dysfunctional relationship that your child is being subjected to. So yes, other mothers are going to speak up. And you don't even have to be a mother to see what's wrong here. But you keep telling yourself this is normal and your child will not possibly be affected. :?:

Have you ever seen the Simpsons?
Marge and Homer go to the car and fight - they put on music Mexican dancing music so it drowns it out.
What do the kids say?
"They're fighting in the car again. That music sends chills down my spine". Sure it's a cartoon. But it's not untrue.

theox
04-23-2012, 11:48 PM
I know therapy is expensive, but that might be a good option for you two. Just my two cents.

Given the general tenor of your posts about your SO, ^this^ sounds like a really good idea. A good counselor may be able to help you two figure out how to improve your communication and cooperation issues, as well as recommend individual treatment, if it's needed. Even if your daughter really has no idea that there's conflict between you two now, it's not as though she'll be little forever. She'll grow up and start to figure things out. Are you going to wait for that to happen before fixing the situation? Lie to her about what she sees with her own eyes? Encourage her to build a relationship with a person who you say is currently "unstable" and "not too pleasant as a partner"? (If so, what will she perceive to be normal and acceptable behavior from her future partners, and is that what you would want for her?)

From what you've written, your relationship with your SO sounds very dysfunctional. Please give professional counseling - either alone or with him - some serious consideration.

XLMuffnTop
04-24-2012, 10:02 AM
Threenorns: I know you may not like some of the responses given but they have truth in them. As a child that grew up with parents that argued constantly, my sister and I always hoped they would just separate for good. They finally did when I was 12 but I think it was maybe a decade too late.

You don't have to argue in front of the kids for them to feel it. I hate the cliche but yes, the tension gets so thick it's suffocating. Your daughter can feel that something is off when you and your "whatever he is" (as you call him :) ) is not meshing.

Regarding the gender role issue, I highly doubt this is going to change at this point. He's older and mostly set in his ways. You discussing it with him may not help at this point; he's probably feeling very defensive, pressured and, as you said, shameful due to tradition and his culture. You either have to accept the way it is, leave the situation or invest time and money in therapy.

I really hope you can find some way to make sure you and your daughter live a well-balanced, healthy and happy life. :hug:

4star
04-25-2012, 08:33 AM
Well I have never met anyone who really liked to clean but when you are an adult, you have to clean your house, that's all there is to it. IMO it's not about being a man/woman, it's about being a responsible adult, and also modeling those habits for any children who are learning what being an adult is.

It may not seem fair to you that he expects you to clean house b/c you are a woman but it's not really fair for you to expect him to clean it either b/c he runs a janitorial service. That would be like asking someone who cooks for a living to always cook in the home, at some point they have to leave their work for the day. You two desperately need to learn compromise. Some of the remarks you post about are quite witty but extremely cruel and that must be a terribly stiffling living situation.

I'll be blunt. Kids aren't enough. Having him there to help isn't enough. You post about this being your home that he's somehow invaded b/c you need help and it's obvious that you neither love nor respect him. So what is he doing living with you and why are you guys keeping up this facade that everything is ok? It's apparent that things are not ok. At least get some counseling so you two can learn to compromise and communicate. Don't just sit around with this tension saying horribly hurtful things to each other.

From your comment to him in your post, you need to let this all go and move on with your life. I don't see you guys having a loving and caring relationship ever, especially saying things that imply you don't care if the other lives or dies... If you can't take care of your daughter by yourself, share custody with him living somewhere else and get some help from your social services department. Maybe they can help with your daughter on a behavioral level so she doesn't run off and you can find some support from others dealing with similar parenting challenges.

pluckypear
04-25-2012, 11:37 AM
I agree that keeping a clean home (and people differ on what that is) is simply being an adult. It has nothing to do with gender or profession. My DH does most of the housework. Why? Because I work more hours then he does. His paid work is spotty at the moment. So he has more time to do laundry and so forth. Also I have some physical injuries such as a torn rotator cuff that I am recovering from. He is physically able to scrub the tub. If he were sick we would work it out between us. I do some things like change bedding or care for pets and cook sometimes. It gets done. And my DH, like me, takes pride in our simple abode. We both benefit from a clean bathroom and clean clothing.

As for conflict in the home I will not comment on personal stories we come here for support. But I will say from personal experience my parents fought loudly and I prayed they would divorce and my Dad would leave. I prayed my Mom would kick him out. She did not and I have since learned she did not do her job as a Mom for her children. She did not protect us from anger (we were never physically touched or yelled at ourselves but witnessed them or witnessed them not speaking to one another or loving one another). Now all four children, grown adults pay the price with food addictions, nicotine addictions, alcohol addictions etc. We are in recovery but how sad. And my sister is repeating the process with a marriage where they fight and in my opinion are in a bad marriage. I can already see the results in her two children aged 4 and 10. Sad. Sad. Sad.

Anyway good luck.