100 lb. Club - full fat dairy products ?




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CHUNKEY_MUNKEY
04-03-2012, 06:34 PM
im just kind of wondering why do full fat dairy products have a seemingly bad impression amongst dieters?

if you have the calories budgeted for it , why does it matter?


ValRock
04-03-2012, 06:36 PM
It doesn't. Fat, in general, has an undeserved bad rap in the dieting world. I think/hope that impression is fading. Dietary fat does not = fat on your bum any more than the same calories worth of carbs does.

I prefer full fat dairy because when you take out the fat it's usually replaced with sugar. I like my foods whole!

CHUNKEY_MUNKEY
04-03-2012, 06:41 PM
thank you for shedding some light on that , you have lost a lot of weight its comforting to know i too can loose weight without giving up full fat dairy products ..... i dont like the low fat stuff it taste so .... ughh the idea of skim milk and skim milk mozerella and 60 calorie yogart was hurting my heart ! lol


pnkrckpixikat
04-03-2012, 06:43 PM
im weird, i use only full fat cheese but i switch out milk for light vanilla silk lol it all depends on what is important enough to you to budget your calories for

Arctic Mama
04-03-2012, 06:44 PM
The bad wrap is based on bad science, plain and simple. Full fat dairy is preferable in almost all cases, when it comes to health (if not calories). Lower fat and skim products tend to either be skimmed of fat AND fat soluble nutrients, or replaced with sugar and starch.

I don't do a lot of dairy in the way of milk and icecream, because it doesn't digest well and I watch sugar, but butter, sour cream, cheese, full fat plain yogurt, kefir, and heavy cream are all excellent additions to my diet as condiments to the main courses of meat, veggies, and fruit :)

ValRock
04-03-2012, 06:46 PM
Yay Kefir!!!

I make my own at home, LOVE that stuff :) <3

PinkLotus
04-03-2012, 06:48 PM
There are certain dairy products that I refuse to eat the fat free versions of -sour cream is the biggest one. I find fat free sour cream to be disgusting! I also don't like low fat/fat free cheese, there's just something not quite right about it (to me).

Justwant2Bhealthy
04-03-2012, 07:01 PM
I eat regular dairy & cheezes too; full fat versions -- always have, except for 2% milk & 10 % cream. Yes, I have tried the very low & no-fat versions, and some of them are baaaad ... I do like yogurt ice cream though, and eat that only becuz I am/was lactose intolerant. I don't eat if often (once in a blue moon); but I can eat regular vanilla ice cream in 1/2 cup servings for some reason, but I digress. :lol:

LiannaKole
04-03-2012, 07:53 PM
I don't know about other people, but (with only a few exceptions) I rarely if ever eat the full fat versions of dairy. But the reason behind it isn't a diet - it's that if I eat the full fat stuff, it tends to trigger me to WAY overeat (the dairy or other foods). So I avoid it. And I like the lowfat stuff just fine. It doesn't taste the same, but after a while you forget and it does the job okay. But I don't eat much dairy now, anyway.

Except cheese. If I eat cheese with any fat in it, I have the same issue. Every time I try to control my portions, it's often a gentle but definite slope down into overeating.

Dairy is a trigger food. -sigh-

Katy Did
04-03-2012, 08:09 PM
Interesting, I didn't know any of this!!

I can't stand most no-fat yogurt, so I haven't been buying it anyway. But I've been eyeing the low fat sour cream and now don't know if I'll bother trying it...

JEN3
04-03-2012, 08:23 PM
Dietary Fats: The good, the bad, and the ugly

www.hsph.harvard.edu/research/prc/files/ewkm_factsheets_dietary_fats.pdf - 2010-08-16


Fats and Cholesterol

http://www.hsph.harvard.edu/nutritionsource/what-should-you-eat/fats-and-cholesterol/index.html


I only eat the low fat versions of all dairy products and not very much of them to save calories that way I can eat more of the other food groups. I take 500mg of calcium twice a day and a multi-vitamin so I’m sure I’m getting calcium. Most dairy products are fortified with calcium which means the manufactures adds it to the product.

I stopped drinking milk altogether, I find myself not eating as much milk products as I use to and I am leaning more towards fruits and vegetables which are more pleasing to me. The full fat versions of dairy products have some saturated and Trans fats in them and those are the Fats that get the bad rap. I use to be one of those people that couldn’t imagine living without a gallon of milk in the fridge and lived on cheese and loved all other dairy products. It was hard to cut down but it was making me fat.

valalltogether
04-03-2012, 08:26 PM
i freakin love fat free cottage cheese. i also have no problems at all with fat free greek yogurt. i've gotten used to skim milk, but i did hear somewhere a long time ago, that when you take the fat out of milk your body does not properly absorb the nutrients? don't know if this is true.

regular cheese is the one thing that i just can't go fat free on. it's so awful. i'll settle for reduced fat, and use sparingly.

Brandis
04-03-2012, 09:55 PM
I tend to use skim milk, both because I don't mind the taste, and because I've read conflicting reports on what homogenization does to the milk and might do to the body. That being said, I will go nuts on some sour cream, full-fat cheese, cottage cheese and yogurt. I love dairy products, as they are a convenient source of protein and calcium. Many people argue that since most mammals lose the ability to digest lactose when weaned (including many people), we should take a hint and stop forcing ourselves to eat something we aren't meant to. But I am one of those people with the adaptive ability to digest milk, so yay me! I just budget accordingly with calories, and if I want sour cream, I'm going to eat it (sparingly). If it doesn't cause you any problems, I say enjoy!

puneri
04-03-2012, 10:48 PM
Yay Kefir!!!

I make my own at home, LOVE that stuff :) <3

Oh do you make kefir at home? Pl give us recipe.

ValRock
04-03-2012, 11:06 PM
Oh do you make kefir at home? Pl give us recipe.

So so so so easy, BUT you have to get the grains to culture it. I have a friend that gave me some starter. You literally just pour milk on it and let it ferment at room temp for about 24 hours, then strain it and start again, with the same grains. We make smoothies with ours. Frozen fruit, Kefir, and local honey. Yummm

bargoo
04-03-2012, 11:36 PM
It all depends on what you want to spend your calories on. Milk and milk products have a lot of calories in general.
I actually like skim milk to drink but hate it on cereal, I use half and half on cereal but measure it carefully to keep the calories down.
I hate non fat sour cream and I also hate non fat cream cheese.
Low fat cream cheese is good but not the non fat, yuck.

Arctic Mama
04-04-2012, 12:26 AM
Dietary Fats: The good, the bad, and the ugly

www.hsph.harvard.edu/research/prc/files/ewkm_factsheets_dietary_fats.pdf - 2010-08-16


Fats and Cholesterol

http://www.hsph.harvard.edu/nutritionsource/what-should-you-eat/fats-and-cholesterol/index.html


I only eat the low fat versions of all dairy products and not very much of them to save calories that way I can eat more of the other food groups. I take 500mg of calcium twice a day and a multi-vitamin so I’m sure I’m getting calcium. Most dairy products are fortified with calcium which means the manufactures adds it to the product.

I stopped drinking milk altogether, I find myself not eating as much milk products as I use to and I am leaning more towards fruits and vegetables which are more pleasing to me. The full fat versions of dairy products have some saturated and Trans fats in them and those are the Fats that get the bad rap. I use to be one of those people that couldn’t imagine living without a gallon of milk in the fridge and lived on cheese and loved all other dairy products. It was hard to cut down but it was making me fat.

FYI, the link from Harvard you posted is full of junk science nonsense that isn't supported by the most current literature. Saturated fat has been demonized with very little proof to back it up, and to the contrary has been exonerated thoroughly by far more research than ever condemned it. Hydrogenated, processed fats are an issue, especially regarding rancidity and the damage they can cause our cells, but the fat naturally occurring in coconut oil, palm oil, and animal products is among the healthiest to consume.

If you're interesting in reading the research contrasting the conventional wisdom that link is espousing with the actual facts regarding healthy human diets, I have some links I can share. Otherwise, take my word for it and perhaps do some hunting around for current research on saturated fat and its' health benefits ;)

Curvaliscious
04-04-2012, 03:01 AM
For me it's all about the calories. I lost 80pnds before eating full fat products, but all the while eating in moderation as I counted calories.

gloo
04-04-2012, 02:17 PM
I eat full fat cheese (except for the occasional 2% swiss), because cheese is sacred to me and I'd rather have a little of the good stuff than a bunch of the fat free ick that tastes like plastic.

I drink my coffee with half and half. I use full fat sour cream. These caloric difference in these things is negligible in some cases, but whatever the difference I account for it. The only place I go nonfat is with milk in my cereal, or with a latte on an occasional Starbucks run. Besides that, give me the good stuff or no stuff at all. :)

JEN3
04-04-2012, 03:08 PM
FYI, the link from Harvard you posted is full of junk science nonsense that isn't supported by the most current literature. Saturated fat has been demonized with very little proof to back it up, and to the contrary has been exonerated thoroughly by far more research than ever condemned it. Hydrogenated, processed fats are an issue, especially regarding rancidity and the damage they can cause our cells, but the fat naturally occurring in coconut oil, palm oil, and animal products is among the healthiest to consume.

If you're interesting in reading the research contrasting the conventional wisdom that link is espousing with the actual facts regarding healthy human diets, I have some links I can share. Otherwise, take my word for it and perhaps do some hunting around for current research on saturated fat and its' health benefits ;)

I prefer to believe researchers and scientists at leading Medical Universities and prestigious hospitals before I would believe junk science OR some off the wall study done by an unqualified group in some foreign country.

Saturated Fats and trans fats are scientifically known to clog arteries and cause an array of diseases. If people want to eat bad fats that’s up to them but they should at least know the true facts. Clogged arteries cause heart attacks and strokes point blank.

The Mayo Clinic

If an item is high in saturated fat, it's probably also high in cholesterol.
http://www.mayoclinic.com/health/healthy-diet/NU00200

----

Standford Medicine, Stanford University

http://hip.stanford.edu/online-resources/Documents/Cholesterol%20Presentation%20(2010).pdf

IMPROVING CHOLESTEROL PROFILE WITHOUT DRUGS

Excerpt: Page 40

6. Opt for low-fat dairy products
7. Cut down on saturated fat in cooking
8. Avoid palm and coconut oils
9. Avoid trans fats
10. Reduce dietary cholesterol

----

Dietary fats: Know which types to choose

http://www.mayoclinic.com/health/fat/NU00262

Excerpt:

When choosing fats, pick unsaturated fat over saturated or trans fat. Here's how to know the difference.

Harmful dietary fat

The two main types of potentially harmful dietary fat:

 Saturated fat. This is a type of fat that comes mainly from animal sources of food. Saturated fat raises total blood cholesterol levels and low-density lipoprotein (LDL) cholesterol levels, which can increase your risk of cardiovascular disease. Saturated fat may also increase your risk of type 2 diabetes.

 Trans fat. This is a type of fat that occurs naturally in some foods, especially foods from animals. But most trans fats are made during food processing through partial hydrogenation of unsaturated fats. This process creates fats that are easier to cook with and less likely to spoil than are naturally occurring oils. These trans fats are called industrial or synthetic trans fats. Research studies show that synthetic trans fat can increase unhealthy LDL cholesterol and lower healthy high-density lipoprotein (HDL) cholesterol. This can increase your risk of cardiovascular disease.
Most fats that have a high percentage of saturated fat or trans fat are solid at room temperature. Because of this, they're typically referred to as solid fats. They include beef fat, pork fat, shortening, stick margarine and butter.

----

How Much Fat do Humans need?

http://www.pennmedicine.org/health_info/nutrition/how_much.html

----

Not all fats are the same

http://www.pennmedicine.org/health_info/nutrition/not_same.html

Palm and coconut oils – as well as the animal fats, butter and lard – are all saturated fats.

*

ValRock
04-04-2012, 03:16 PM
I eat TONS of eggs, full fat dairy, and coconut oil... I had high Cholesterol when I was overweight. My numbers are PERFECT now.

I had a 'cardiac event' last year, WITH low cholesterol, and low blood pressure. For me, these are not at all related. The only thing I've changed since then is completely cutting out processed trans fats. I still consume coconut oils and eggs, probably more than I did before.

After biweekly visits with the cardiologist for the last 12 months, I'm finally in the 'clear'. I only have to go see her every 6 months now.

It may be anectdotal, but my doctor has certainly taken note... it's interesting.

Arctic Mama
04-04-2012, 03:17 PM
Again, are you considering the paradigm that research falls into, and that there is a particular narrative that mainstream nutritional philosophy has adopted that ignores data it disagrees with or manipulates the data to draw misleading statistical 'conclusions'? That lipid theory has been debunked almost entirely, and while I have no time or interest in tearing up the information in each one of your links, I would encourage you to do a little reading into more current data on the subject. As I said before, saturated fats have been exonerated and dietary cholesterol has little to no impact on blood serum cholesterol.

If you want to categorize some fats as 'bad', you're villainizing the wrong ones. Here is some food for thought on cholesterol (food and blood serum), fats, and a quick take on the studies looking into them. Being a prior believer in conventional wisdom it was quite gratifying to be educated beyond the bad science I was being fed by the mainstream nutrition industry. I was well enough convinced to do a complete 180.

http://www.westonaprice.org/know-your-fats/cholesterol-friend-or-foe

This one rebuts many of the studies your links cite and might be of interest:
http://www.westonaprice.org/know-your-fats/more-saturated-fat-attacks

Absolutely excellent research review in two parts:
http://www.bodyrecomposition.com/nutrition/a-primer-on-dietary-fats-part-1.html
http://www.bodyrecomposition.com/nutrition/carbohydrate-and-fat-controversies-part-2.html

One more excellent overview of lipid science, I wanted to add this one in as a quickie: http://www.westonaprice.org/know-your-fats/tripping-lightly-down-the-prostaglandin-pathways

I hope some of these are educational for readers of this thread, sorry for not having more time to discuss this in depth!

Larry H
04-04-2012, 03:24 PM
I always ate full fat dairy products. I grew up on a dairy farm. Loved the taste, The only side effect for me was the open heart surgery cardiac bypass I had in April last year. My main heart artery called the widow maker by my cardiologist was 85% blocked by fatty deposits. My cardiologist suggested a diet change, he said my blockage did not come from eating fruits and vegetables.

I reluctantly changed my diet and now a year later I am fully used to the low and non fat dairy products.

http://www.mayoclinic.com/health/high-blood-cholesterol/DS00178/DSECTION=risk-factors

These artery blockages do not happen to everyone. You have to ask yourself "Do I feel lucky?"

Larry

JEN3
04-04-2012, 05:25 PM
Larry,

Glad to hear you're on the mend. There is nothing better than modern American medical science. I also, know someone who has been thin all his life and after 52 years of eating whole fat foods, sugar, butter and refined flour had a heart artery that was 90% blocked and Polyps in his colon.

My friend had great insurance and it still cost him around 6 grand out of pocket to mend himself the insurance paid around 70k. That was over a year ago and he still is on meds and has doctor appointments and the out of pocket costs haven't stopped.

He told me that he thought his mother tried to kill him by feeding him baked goods and trans fats all his life and making him get hooked on them. What people don't realize is it takes a long time for your body to break down to the point to where you have a heart attack and other health problems.

I'm glad to see you have changed your ways and you’re on the right path to good health. I am taking the safe road to old age and watching what I eat.

As, for those who choose to ignore the warnings signs: You know what they say, "You can lead a horse to water but you can't make him drink."

.

CHUNKEY_MUNKEY
04-04-2012, 06:20 PM
my cholestrol is also perfect even being as overweight as i am .... my doctor says dairy is important to my overall wellbeing as i dont eat much meat ...

Arctic Mama
04-04-2012, 07:01 PM
Larry,

Glad to hear you're on the mend. There is nothing better than modern American medical science. I also, know someone who has been thin all his life and after 52 years of eating whole fat foods, sugar, butter and refined flour had a heart artery that was 90% blocked and Polyps in his colon.

My friend had great insurance and it still cost him around 6 grand out of pocket to mend himself the insurance paid around 70k. That was over a year ago and he still is on meds and has doctor appointments and the out of pocket costs haven't stopped.

He told me that he thought his mother tried to kill him by feeding him baked goods and trans fats all his life and making him get hooked on them. What people don't realize is it takes a long time for your body to break down to the point to where you have a heart attack and other health problems.

I'm glad to see you have changed your ways and you’re on the right path to good health. I am taking the safe road to old age and watching what I eat.

As, for those who choose to ignore the warnings signs: You know what they say, "You can lead a horse to water but you can't make him drink."

.

O_o

Wait. So I linked both the soundly scientific basis of lipid metabolism AND easy-to-understand analysis of the latest, most cutting edge research into the field from a well respected analyst (Lyle McDonald is great, I highly recommend his work!) and you come back with a tangential, slightly jingoistic jab that doesn't even apply, given that the bulk of the studies cited were conducted by American research groups and Universities after the older recommendations were called into questions based on their poor methodology?

We ALL watch what we eat here and are looking for the best health possible. And yet you would not consider for a moment that the conclusions and recommendations that have correlated strongly with a fatter, sicker America might be suspect and more research into that area supports it?

To turn a phrase, I've given you an excellent watering hole to delve into if you're interested in learning. If not, by all means enjoy your diet.

Larry H
04-04-2012, 07:48 PM
O_o

Wait. So I linked both the soundly scientific basis of lipid metabolism AND easy-to-understand analysis of the latest, most cutting edge research into the field from a well respected analyst (Lyle McDonald is great, I highly recommend his work!) and you come back with a tangential, slightly jingoistic jab that doesn't even apply, given that the bulk of the studies cited were conducted by American research groups and Universities after the older recommendations were called into questions based on their poor methodology?

We ALL watch what we eat here and are looking for the best health possible. And yet you would not consider for a moment that the conclusions and recommendations that have correlated strongly with a fatter, sicker America might be suspect and more research into that area supports it?

To turn a phrase, I've given you an excellent watering hole to delve into if you're interested in learning. If not, by all means enjoy your diet.

Thank you, as I said not everyone has a problem. On the other hand I consider the Mayo Clinic to be a very highly respected and a knowledgeable source of medical information.

About 5 years ago I had an angiogram and the cardiologist said I had the arteries of a teenager. No blockages what ever. I was over weight and I selected the Atkins Diet which I followed religiously.
In four years I went from no blockage to 85% blockage.

For me and only for me I have had a disastrous result from following a high fat low carb diet routine. It could be a coincidence but I choose to stop risking it based on my experience.

We need not be disagreeable but we should simply agree to disagree.

Larry,

Arctic Mama
04-04-2012, 08:58 PM
Larry, I'd never discount your personal experience with a condition - obviously you ended up with blocked arteries, as indicated by the surgery. But correlation doesn't equal causation and while something in Atkins may have exacerbated the inflammatory response in your vascular system, there is little support for animal fat having been that culprit, if we're talking about what the current body of research indicates. My bothering to link to additional information on the topic was for the educational purposes of those still touting the lipid theory of cholesterol/inflammation, which was a bad construing of the data at the time of its' conception and has since been widely disproved.

That doesn't been other dietary factors aren't linked with inflammation - quite the contrary, heredity aside (and that is by far the most dominant factor of arterial damage) many foods and chemicals are showing signs that they can precipitate immune responses within our blood and cause the protective effects of circulating cholesterol to kick in. It's fascinating research, actually!

Mayo is reliable on certain topics and less so on others, when it comes to their online article content. Their actual clinical interventions are where their reputation is well deserved and some of their epidemiology research is fabulous, too. But on this point, they are recycling conventional wisdom on the topic at hand more than interpreting the full body of data with fresh eyes and no preconceptions (in my opinion, obviously).

I can't comment on Atkins, for as many people as I know had great improvements in their blood chemistry still more encountered difficulties, and it isn't a mode of eating I ascribe to, but I am a big fan of everyone finding what works for them and sticking with it! If that is low fat, excellent. My contention with the original post referenced in this thread of discussion was the claims of low fat diets being health promoting and saturated fat being health deteriorating, which is contrary to the majority of literature on the subject available at this time. Things change as we learn more, and saturated fat as a causal factor in vascular and endocrine dysfunction is unsupported. The few studies that have been referenced to conclude that, including the ones the original dietary guidelines were established upon, were manipulated in intellectually grievous ways to show conclusions the data they gathered didn't actually support. That's where my bone to pick was, and what the links I provided discuss in detail.

I cannot argue with your n=1 sample, you are the authority and director of your own body, but the mechanisms that cause your (or my own!) experience aren't always what they appear to be based on simple observation. My appeal is to the science of animal and plant lipids as being more conclusive for understanding dietary recommendations, not to prove or disprove an individual's experiences, which are affected by many more complex factors than the absence or presence of saturated animal fat and saturated plant lipids.

And that's my .02 ;)

Justwant2Bhealthy
04-04-2012, 09:17 PM
About 5 years ago I had an angiogram and the cardiologist said I had the arteries of a teenager. No blockages what ever. I was over weight and I selected the Atkins Diet which I followed religiously. In four years I went from no blockage to 85% blockage.

Whoah, LARRY ~ I'm so glad that you are doing better now. Now that paragraph says more about a high-fat diet, than just dairy products. Now, we are not advocating eating high-fat diets per se, or high-fat dairy in copious amounts either -- well, I know I'm not.

I also eat a lower-fat diet -- I eat butter rarely, maybe once a year; low-fat meat all the time (removing skin & all visible fat), 1% or 2% milk; 10% cream only occasionally. My yogurt is lower or no fat simply becuz I eat the one I like, and I'm watching the sugar too.

For me, the biggest exception is CHEESE: I eat regular cheese (in measured portions) simply becuz the low fat ones are like rubber with no taste at all, or they have some weird flavor that I haven't quite put my finger on yet ... :lol:

Overall, I wouldn't say that I eat a lot of dairy though, but I think we have to remember what the original question was. OP just wanted to know if we ate lowfat or nofat verses regular fat dairy products.

Thanks for sharing your experience though; it was interesting to read, and once again, I'm glad you have recovered from that ... :D

Larry H
04-04-2012, 09:43 PM
Whoah, LARRY ~ I'm so glad that you are doing better now. Now that paragraph says more about a high-fat diet, than just dairy products. Now, we are not advocating eating high-fat diets per se, or high-fat dairy in copious amounts either -- well, I know I'm not.

I also eat a lower-fat diet -- I eat butter rarely, maybe once a year; low-fat meat all the time (removing skin & all visible fat), 1% or 2% milk; 10% cream only occasionally. My yogurt is lower or no fat simply becuz I eat the one I like, and I'm watching the sugar too.

For me, the biggest exception is CHEESE: I eat regular cheese (in measured portions) simply becuz the low fat ones are like rubber with no taste at all, or they have some weird flavor that I haven't quite put my finger on yet ... :lol:

Overall, I wouldn't say that I eat a lot of dairy though, but I think we have to remember what the original question was. OP just wanted to know if we ate lowfat or nofat verses regular fat dairy products.

Thanks for sharing your experience though; it was interesting to read, and once again, I'm glad you have recovered from that ... :D

Thank you for the kind words. I see you are from Ontario, Canada I spent about half my childhood in Ontario. I lived in a suburb of Buffalo, NY just across the Niagara River. Moved permanently to Florida 2 1/2 years ago.

To answer that original question I now eat predominately low fat or non fat but on occasion will have regular butter or regular American style bacon instead of my regular turkey bacon. I pretty much only use non fat cheese and find that when melted the flavor greatly improves. Milk I split the difference and use 2% because that is all my wife will drink. I don't use enough milk to justify buying a 1/2 gallon of skim. (quarts are almost impossible to find in this part of Florida)

Larry

Arctic Mama
04-04-2012, 09:59 PM
I skip milk too, these days! I never thought that could happen, as I used to love it, but I find I don't miss it anymore :) We keep it stocked for my kiddos.

MARLA26
04-04-2012, 10:16 PM
I have to drink at least 18 ounces of whole milk every day, otherwise I start to get aches and pains all over my body. :faint:


The calories do add up, but if I drink skim milk or 2% I will have a lot of pain in a few weeks time. TMJ too.

I don't eat marjarine, just butter.

I don't eat much cheese, but it's not reduced fat either.
And I make my own kefir, sometimes with whole milk, sometimes with goats milk.

:moo::moo::moo::moo:

chickadee32
04-04-2012, 10:27 PM
My dairy consumption is almost entirely non-fat (skim milk and 0% greek yogurt, both of which I have nearly every day), not because I'm concerned about the health impact of fat in dairy but because my stomach reacts terribly to dairy fat. It took me a long time to figure out that it wasn't dairy in general that was the problem, and why things like Lactaid didn't work for me. It's just dairy fat; I am totally fine consuming non-fat dairy. Must be a weird allergy or intolerance or something, but I've yet to get any doctor to actually believe me. :)

Anyway, my exception is cheese; I occasionally eat a little bit of lowfat or full fat cheese just because I love it so much. I pay for it when I eat it though. :lol: Butter I avoid like the plague.

Arctic Mama
04-04-2012, 11:03 PM
That is unusual, but I don't doubt it could happen! Part of the reason I use my dairy as a condiment is digestive issues, even though I am not noticeably lactose or casein-intolerant. Less is more with that, as much as I love it.

JEN3
04-05-2012, 02:20 PM
Again, are you considering the paradigm that research falls into, and that there is a particular narrative that mainstream nutritional philosophy has adopted that ignores data it disagrees with or manipulates the data to draw misleading statistical 'conclusions'? That lipid theory has been debunked almost entirely, and while I have no time or interest in tearing up the information in each one of your links, I would encourage you to do a little reading into more current data on the subject. As I said before, saturated fats have been exonerated and dietary cholesterol has little to no impact on blood serum cholesterol.

If you want to categorize some fats as 'bad', you're villainizing the wrong ones. Here is some food for thought on cholesterol (food and blood serum), fats, and a quick take on the studies looking into them. Being a prior believer in conventional wisdom it was quite gratifying to be educated beyond the bad science I was being fed by the mainstream nutrition industry. I was well enough convinced to do a complete 180.

http://www.westonaprice.org/know-your-fats/cholesterol-friend-or-foe

This one rebuts many of the studies your links cite and might be of interest:
http://www.westonaprice.org/know-your-fats/more-saturated-fat-attacks

Absolutely excellent research review in two parts:
http://www.bodyrecomposition.com/nutrition/a-primer-on-dietary-fats-part-1.html
http://www.bodyrecomposition.com/nutrition/carbohydrate-and-fat-controversies-part-2.html

One more excellent overview of lipid science, I wanted to add this one in as a quickie: http://www.westonaprice.org/know-your-fats/tripping-lightly-down-the-prostaglandin-pathways

I hope some of these are educational for readers of this thread, sorry for not having more time to discuss this in depth!


I consider your sources to be junk science. Lyle McDonald is a body builder and has no medical degrees what-so-ever. Your number one source “The Weston A. Price Foundation” is not a medical institution or a medical research center it’s a BLOG and they ask for donations from their readers. They’re heavily affiliated with the Farmer - to Consumer Legal Defense Fund. Which is nothing more than an organization of Farmers fighting the government for the right to feed the general public more saturated fats and Trans fats.

Your source Natasha Campbell-McBride from Russian who claims she is a doctor. States; "Low blood cholesterol routinely makes people commit murders and violent crimes." And by "Reducing cholesterol in the population on a large scale would create more aggression at work and in the family, more child abuse, more wife-beating.”

Your sources are ridiculous and are a shameless scare tactic to convince the public to eat more saturated fats and Trans fats. Anyone using such tactics cannot be taken seriously especially if they are in the Medical field.

From The American Heart Association:

“Cholesterol comes from two sources: your body and food. Your liver and other cells in your body make about 75 percent of blood cholesterol. The other 25 percent comes from the foods you eat. Cholesterol is only found in animal products. LDL cholesterol is the "bad" cholesterol. When too much of it circulates in the blood, it can clog arteries, increasing your risk of heart attack and stroke. LINK (http://www.heart.org/HEARTORG/Conditions/Cholesterol/AboutCholesterol/About-Cholesterol_UCM_001220_Article.jsp)

ValRock
04-05-2012, 02:53 PM
From The American Heart Association:

“Cholesterol comes from two sources: your body and food. Your liver and other cells in your body make about 75 percent of blood cholesterol. The other 25 percent comes from the foods you eat. Cholesterol is only found in animal products. LDL cholesterol is the "bad" cholesterol. When too much of it circulates in the blood, it can clog arteries, increasing your risk of heart attack and stroke. LINK (http://www.heart.org/HEARTORG/Conditions/Cholesterol/AboutCholesterol/About-Cholesterol_UCM_001220_Article.jsp)

Errrr, WRONG.

This is a PDF, so I don't know if it'll post here, http://chemistry.osu.edu/~gopalan.5/file/7B.PDF
Department of Biochemistry, The Ohio State University, Columbus, OH 43210; *Behrman.1@osu.edu

"There is a widespread belief among the public and even
among chemists that plants do not contain cholesterol. This
error is the result (in part) of the fact that plants generally
contain only small quantities of cholesterol and that analytical methods for the detection of cholesterol in this range were
not well developed until recently (1). Another reason has to
do with the legalities of food labeling that allow small quantities of cholesterol in foods to be called zero (2). The fact is
that cholesterol is widespread in the plant kingdom although
other related sterols, such as β-sitosterol (henceforth referred
to as sitosterol), generally occur in larger quantities...."

Arctic Mama
04-05-2012, 03:30 PM
Rather than attacking the source, why not evaluate the information? Ad Hominem arguments are weak, especially considering that the data presented in all the links is sourced extremely well if the analyst is considered faulty (thus allowing the reader the go beyond the presenter of the information to judge the validity of what is discussed for themselves).

It is pure intellectual snobbery to assume the ability to discern and parse studies is the sole domain of 'professionals'. As for the assertions McBride makes, given that there have been numerous studies on the effects of low dietary fat consumption with imbalances in brain chemistry (the behavioral effects can be quite profound, but very complex), it isn't sensible to dismiss the entire discussion based on a summation of it. This is where we need to go back to the data and not rely on whatever conclusions drawn for us. In this case, the data supports her assertion to a statistically significant degree.

As I stated before, my links are accessible to the layperson who doesn't want to view the journals directly and try to parse the language of the reports. But they are all meticulously linked, allowing someone like you (who disdains the non-credentialed by your own admission) to view the data for yourself and contrast it. You can do what you'd like, but I'd not be so quick to dismiss challenged to the current conclusions as baseless when that simply hasn't been the case.

But as I don't have enough letters by my name I'm incapable of studying and critically evaluating information presented to me. Heck, I'm barely cogent enough to be typing here, lacking an arguably useless degree in this field. How dare I assert any opinion, no matter how well researched, into a health discussion! :dizzy:

Arctic Mama
04-05-2012, 03:31 PM
You're a trooper, Val. I decided a few posts ago that actually digging out quotes wasn't going to be useful in this discussion. Fight the good lipid fight, sweetie :)

ValRock
04-05-2012, 03:37 PM
You're a trooper, Val. I decided a few posts ago that actually digging out quotes wasn't going to be useful in this discussion. Fight the good lipid fight, sweetie :)

You can lead a horse to water, but you can't make them drink :).

I just know, that I'd probably be dead or VERY ill right now if I'd relied on the 'conventional advice'. My cardiologist agrees.

;)

Arctic Mama
04-05-2012, 04:11 PM
Amen to that! My health was terrible the first two years of this journey, even though I lost weight, because my diet was inappropriate for my body and making me ill. Way too inflammatory, with the low fat, whole grains, etc. Ditching conventional wisdom and looking for what gave the healthiest results and what was supported by the data available was the best thing I did for my body.

That's what it comes down to, I think. Finding a way of eating that is satisfying, sustainable for your life and habits, and promotes your best health. While I think there's quite a bit of variation in that spectrum, the current USDA, FDA, and CDC recommendations for health miss the mark on many crucial topics. Not all, but a shocking amount of the data and recommendations were poorly supported even when adopted. I know I wish someone had directed me to some critical examinations of the currently espoused nutritional doctrine sooner, so that's what I try to do on here. Provide some information, let people decide for themselves. You are your own science experiment, after all, and every body is different.

:grouphug:

And apologies to the OP for the thread jacking :o

Larry H
04-05-2012, 05:01 PM
Not wanting a closed mind on this I took your suggestion and did some independent research.

"The Weston A. Price Foundation (WAPF), co-founded in 1999 by Sally Fallon (Morell) and nutritionist Mary G. Enig (PhD), is a U.S. 501(c)(3) non-profit organization dedicated to "restoring nutrient-dense foods to the American diet through education, research and activism."
The foundation has been criticised by medical and health experts for "purveying misleading information" and "failing to update their recommendations in light of contradictory evidence"."
I was especially interested in their recommendations for raw milk:
"The Weston A. Price Foundation is a major advocate for the consumption of unpasteurized milk, or raw milk, in the United States. One of its main goals is to remove health regulations that require the pasteurization of milk products so that raw milk can be legally purchased in all states." I grew up on a dairy farm in a time period that raw milk was very common. A quite serious disease was common at that time called "Undulant Fever" which was caused by drinking raw milk.

I found it revealing that Lyle McDonald's degree is a BS in exercise and not medicine or nutrition. He pushes the ketogenic diet as did Dr. Atkins. It is interesting to note that probably the best known proponent of the ketogenic diet died from a heart attack caused by clogged arteries.

I agree with Jen3 and consider your sources to be junk science.

Larry

ValRock
04-05-2012, 05:10 PM
Dr. Atkins did not die of heart disease. He died of head injuries related to a fall.

Arctic Mama
04-05-2012, 05:37 PM
Larry, the foundation has indeed been criticized by health professionals, that doesn't imply the criticism has much merit, however. And they are absolutely affiliated with many small farms, as well as active in regulatory reform, as many charities and non-profits are. Good searching!

The fallacy comes in whereby you conclude that the research being referenced or published through them has no basis or sound conclusions, and that the work being funded by larger or more government-controlled entities/regulatory bodies automatically have more credible findings. If only that was the case, wouldn't this all be so much more straightforward?!

McDonald's analyses and research are excellent and as a study of his posts would conclude he puts the onus of verification and practice on the consumer, as it should be. I'm appealing to his credibility as a person having used and benefitted from his recommendations and approving of the assessment behind them - he's not the one propping himself up here ;)

You are welcome to put your trust in whatever you like, but I have personally found my reliance on the cited dietary recommendations to be baseless and detrimental to my overall health. As I said before, your mileage may vary and your experiences are your own. But as with Val, I'd likely be barely functional if I followed the tripe spouted off by the GPs and specialists I have seen over the years. So I am coming about this from a perspective of high skepticism regarding oft-repeated and poorly supported notions about diet and exercise. Diet, in particular, is so poorly understood by most medical professionals and even nutritionists and dietiticians, it's shockingly bad. And the resistance to changing recommendations to reflect changes in the data is obscenely bad. While the individuals in the links I posted certainly have an agenda, it is absolutely naive to assume that the same is not true of the organizations linked in opposition to these views.

That's where our own intellect and experiences make up the gap, and where we are each accountable for our decisions based on the knowledge we've acquired. My caution is that one doesn't make those decisions based on the credibility of the source without regard for the information the source espouses - in both directions! If only independence or lack of credentials was a sign of quackery and certifications meant reliability, but that has proven to not be the case across the spectrum of nutrition and lifestyle research.

puneri
04-05-2012, 06:22 PM
I just would like to add your decisions are product of your experiences. So each one comes out with different conclusions. The conclusions may be right for his /her case, but may not be accepted as universal truth.

JEN3
04-05-2012, 06:47 PM
Face the Fats :moo::m::jeno::cheese::mcd::goodluck:

Fats 101

Do you know everything you need to know to make healthy fat choices? Take our crash course on fats.

http://www.heart.org/HEARTORG/GettingHealthy/FatsAndOils/Face-the-Fats_UCM_301588_SubHomePage.jsp

----

Meet the Fats

http://www.heart.org/HEARTORG/GettingHealthy/FatsAndOils/MeettheFats/Meet-the-Fats_UCM_304495_Article.jsp

----

5 Goals to Losing Weight

http://www.heart.org/HEARTORG/GettingHealthy/WeightManagement/LosingWeight/5-Goals-to-Losing-Weight_UCM_307260_Article.jsp

----

Why Should I Be Physically Active?

http://www.heart.org/idc/groups/heart-public/@wcm/@hcm/documents/downloadable/ucm_300469.pdf

----

Many laboratory, clinical, pathological and epidemiological studies have clearly established that high blood cholesterol levels play a role in developing coronary heart disease in adults. Several studies also have shown that fatty buildups in arteries begin in childhood and are more likely with higher blood cholesterol levels.

“Because of the increasing rates of obesity, unhealthy eating habits and physical inactivity, we may see the first generation that will be less healthy and have a shorter life expectancy than their parents." -- Former Surgeon General Richard Carmona

http://www.heart.org/HEARTORG/GettingHealthy/NutritionCenter/Cholesterol-and-Atherosclerosis-in-Children_UCM_305952_Article.jsp

*

JEN3
04-05-2012, 06:58 PM
Dr. Atkins did not die of heart disease. He died of head injuries related to a fall.

Robert Atkins had a heart attack in 2002. He died in 2004 a city medical examiner's report said that he suffered from a heart attack, congestive heart failure, and hypertension, before his death and he was clinically obese at time of his death.

SNOPES
LINK (http://www.snopes.com/medical/doctor/atkins.asp)

Associated Press. "Diet Doctor Atkins was Obese, Suffered Heart Disease, Medical Examiner Report Says." 10 February 2004

JEN3
04-05-2012, 07:22 PM
Not wanting a closed mind on this I took your suggestion and did some independent research.

"The Weston A. Price Foundation (WAPF), co-founded in 1999 by Sally Fallon (Morell) and nutritionist Mary G. Enig (PhD), is a U.S. 501(c)(3) non-profit organization dedicated to "restoring nutrient-dense foods to the American diet through education, research and activism."
The foundation has been criticised by medical and health experts for "purveying misleading information" and "failing to update their recommendations in light of contradictory evidence"."
I was especially interested in their recommendations for raw milk:
"The Weston A. Price Foundation is a major advocate for the consumption of unpasteurized milk, or raw milk, in the United States. One of its main goals is to remove health regulations that require the pasteurization of milk products so that raw milk can be legally purchased in all states." I grew up on a dairy farm in a time period that raw milk was very common. A quite serious disease was common at that time called "Undulant Fever" which was caused by drinking raw milk.

I found it revealing that Lyle McDonald's degree is a BS in exercise and not medicine or nutrition. He pushes the ketogenic diet as did Dr. Atkins. It is interesting to note that probably the best known proponent of the ketogenic diet died from a heart attack caused by clogged arteries.

I agree with Jen3 and consider your sources to be junk science.

Larry

Larry,

Thanks for your support but then again it's the American Medical Society that deserves all the credit.

One of the main writers of The Weston A. Price Foundation, Sally Fallon has 2 degrees in English and none in the medical field. The organization sounds like a bunch of big mouthed misfits wanna bees trying to make a dime for themselves. No respectable medical institution would give them any merit and neither should the public.

*

Arctic Mama
04-05-2012, 07:46 PM
Well we can decide that for ourselves, now can't we? And again with slamming sources for a lack of degrees.

I will take a devoted, intellectually curious hobbyist sharing analyses and opinions on test data over a credentialed mouthpiece any day. And this view is shared by my family - one full of theoretical and applied scientists, including medical practitioners of varying types. Knowledge isn't the sole property of an institution, nor should it be. Curiosity and a willingness to think outside the box when the box no longer fits is crucial to ALL science and discovery, nutrition is no different.

lottie63
04-05-2012, 08:13 PM
I like almond milk, it's less cals and I hate to drink my cals.

I'm vegan, but still, skim milk always icked me out.

lottie63
04-05-2012, 08:21 PM
For those of you who eat/drink dairy...just wondering, why do you do it? Because it tastes good? Or because you feel there is some health benefit?

Arctic Mama
04-05-2012, 08:34 PM
Lottie! Long time, no see!

As for me and dairy, I don't do a ton. Primarily cheese, cultured stuff like yogurt, and heavy cream. And I do it for a little of both your mentions - I use it as a condiment on my food because I love the taste, and I use it for health benefits as well (especially the cultured products and enzymatic action of the food). But I have no compunctions about animal products in general, and am a big fan.

lottie63
04-05-2012, 08:39 PM
enzyme action I Don't imagine is bad :)

but a lot of people say 'it builds strong bones' which is just not true and can actually lead to more brittle bones. There is a lot of info on this out right now. I was just wondering if it were for calcium.

I take viactiv. and drink fortified almond milk, my doc says being on birth control I need more calcium, I wish I could hack out my lady parts without suffering any weird hormonal repercussions. :P

EDIT: I don't plan on getting into a snarky argument about this like I've seen on this thread already, if you want the info google is your friend. That's all. :)

chickadee32
04-05-2012, 09:00 PM
For those of you who eat/drink dairy...just wondering, why do you do it? Because it tastes good? Or because you feel there is some health benefit?

With regards to my near-daily consumption of skim milk and greek yogurt, I'd like to say that it's wholly for the calcium and protein... but while I really like those benefits, I consume that particular stuff because I love it. I am seriously addicted to my daily iced venti skim latte from Starbucks and I adore the apple cinnamon and peach flavors of the chobani 0%. When I saw a nutritionist a while back she told me I should have more dairy in my diet, but I think the 2 servings I get on most days is probably just fine.

JEN3
04-05-2012, 09:07 PM
It sounds like the Weston A. Price Foundation; WAPF is a CULT that is determined to drag modern medicine and science back to the 18th century where life expectancy was about 40 years of age.

“The WAPF advocates consumption of saturated fats and cholesterol from "traditional foods."

Weston A. Price Foundation: shills and quacks

“They advocate a diet high in saturated fat, which according to our best scientific knowledge is linked to a higher risk of heart disease and stroke. WAPF simply denies that such a link exists, sort of like how tobacco companies simply denied the link between smoking and lung cancer.”

I guess when they finally clog their arteries and need a cardiologist they'll call the “Body Building Witch Doctor Lyle McDonald" to perform their procedures, no mind if he doesn't have a degree. Good Luck with that!


*

Arctic Mama
04-05-2012, 09:08 PM
Lottie -

I get most of my calcium from bone broths and vegetables, I'd say maybe a third of my daily intake is from yogurt, heavy cream, cheese, or the like, because I don't each much of them, but most is still from animal sources given how much offal and broth I consume.

Of all the benefits of dairy, calcium is fairly low on my list, if only because I can't eat/drink enough of it to get significant quantities of calcium before I start reacting badly. It is a more readily absorbed type of calcium than the form in fruits and veggies, but otherwise I haven't seen a ton of evidence to suggest vast superiority. Other substances in dairy are of more interest to me frm a health perspective, and most of those require the fat to work synergistically. Not all, though!

Arctic Mama
04-05-2012, 09:10 PM
It sounds like the Weston A. Price Foundation; WAPF is a CULT that is determined to drag modern medicine and science back to the 18th century where life expectancy was about 40 years of age.

“The WAPF advocates consumption of saturated fats and cholesterol from "traditional foods."

Weston A. Price Foundation: shills and quacks

“They advocate a diet high in saturated fat, which according to our best scientific knowledge is linked to a higher risk of heart disease and stroke. WAPF simply denies that such a link exists, sort of like how tobacco companies simply denied the link between smoking and lung cancer.”

I guess when they finally clog their arteries and need a cardiologist they'll call the “Body Building Witch Doctor Lyle McDonald" to perform their procedures. Good Luck with that!


*

Wow, rude much?

You can disagree vehemently with a viewpoint and not call those who ascribe to it cultists or witch doctors. It is demeaning our intelligence to do so, and implying that there is no evidence for their claims, which is an out and out lie.

Let's not insult others, please.

lottie63
04-05-2012, 09:23 PM
Lottie -

I get most of my calcium from bone broths and vegetables, I'd say maybe a third of my daily intake is from yogurt, heavy cream, cheese, or the like, because I don't each much of them, but most is still from animal sources given how much offal and broth I consume.

Of all the benefits of dairy, calcium is fairly low on my list, if only because I can't eat/drink enough of it to get significant quantities of calcium before I start reacting badly. It is a more readily absorbed type of calcium than the form in fruits and veggies, but otherwise I haven't seen a ton of evidence to suggest vast superiority. Other substances in dairy are of more interest to me frm a health perspective, and most of those require the fat to work synergistically. Not all, though!


The issue with cows milk, especially skim, is that the protein ratio is bumped up when the fat is removed, and animal protein leaches calcium from your body so when you pair them, and in higher protein ratios (skim) it's not so great. But yes even my calcium supplements say to take with a meal to enhance absorption.

JEN3
04-05-2012, 09:24 PM
The Mount Sinai Hospital

http://www.mountsinai.org/patient-care/health-library/diseases-and-conditions/hyperlipidemia

Hyperlipidemia is a high level of fats in the blood. These fats, called lipids, include cholesterol and triglycerides. There are five types of hyperlipidemia. The type depends on which lipid in the blood is high.

Causes may include:

A diet high in total fat, saturated fat, or cholesterol

Symptoms

Hyperlipidemia usually does not cause symptoms. Very high levels of lipids or triglycerides can cause:

• Fat deposits in the skin or tendons ( xanthomas)
• Pain, enlargement, or swelling of organs such as the liver, spleen, or pancreas ( pancreatitis)
• Obstruction of blood vessels in heart and brain

If not treated, high lipids can cause:

• Heart attack
• Stroke
• Atherosclerosis (hardening of the arteries)

*

lottie63
04-05-2012, 09:24 PM
p.s just want to make it clear that I don't eat this stuff for health reasons. and I Don't care what other people eat I was just wondering why they do and putting some info out there.

Vladadog
04-05-2012, 10:56 PM
My, what an interesting thread. I'm with ArticMama as far believing saturated fat isn't the enemy.

In 2008 my blood work was not great but all the numbers were at least on the "good" side. Just barely, though.
In 2009 they were nearly all on the "bad" side. Again. just barely, but still the trend was undeniable.
In 2010 I lost 100 pounds and my bloodwork moved decidedly and solidly into the good.
In 2011 I switched to raw milk and cheese, only pastured meats and eggs. I eat a balanced diet - whole grains, lots of veggies and fruits, but also an egg or two a day, a gallon of homemade kefir a week, and beef, pork, cheese too. I regained 25 pounds because i stopped not eating junk food (old habits die hard, alas) but still, my bloodwork went from good to OUTSTANDING.

Also, all signs of arthritis went away after a few months of drinking raw milk kefir.

Riesz
04-05-2012, 11:28 PM
I eat skim/fat free dairy in all forms. I'm used to it so it doesn't bother me at all.

Sometimes full fat or 1% dairy is on sale and fat free isn't so in those times I buy the higher fat dairy. It turns into being a bit of a treat. :)

I like the creaminess of the higher fat dairy but since I'm counting calories and trying to keep my fat intake only 20% of total cals I would rather get my fat from flax or nuts. Just my personal preference.

JEN3
04-06-2012, 02:40 PM
Breastfeeding and Trans-fat
ABC News

http://www.kvue.com/news/health/kids-doctor/105531258.html

Breast-fed babies are much more likely to put on excess body fat if their mother’s diet is high in trans fats, finds a new study.
Further research is needed to learn more about how a mother’s consumption of trans fats may affect her child’s long-term health.

*

KIDS HEALTH

http://kidshealth.org/parent/growth/feeding/fat.html#

2. Saturated fats: Found in meat and other animal products, such as butter, shortening, lard, cheese, and milk (except skim or nonfat), saturated fats are also in palm and coconut oils, which are often used in commercial baked goods. Eating too much saturated fat can raise blood cholesterol levels and increase the risk of heart disease.

3. Trans fats: Found in margarine (especially the sticks), commercial snack foods and baked goods, and some commercially fried foods, trans fats (also called trans fatty acids) are created when vegetable oils are hydrogenated (meaning that hydrogen atoms are added to the fat molecule so they remain solid at room temperature).

Like saturated fats, trans fats can raise cholesterol and increase the risk of heart disease. Food manufacturers must list trans fats on food labels, but may also refer to them as "partially hydrogenated" oils on the ingredient list.

*

KIDS HEALTH

http://kidshealth.org/parent/medical/heart/cholesterol.html?tracking=P_RelatedArticle#

The 2010 Dietary Guidelines recommend keeping dietary fat intake between 30%-40% for kids 1-3 years old and between 25%-35% for kids 4 to 18 years, with most fats coming from sources of unsaturated fats, such as fish, nuts, and vegetable oils.

For kids older than 2 years and teens, limit:

o cholesterol to less than 300 milligrams a day
o saturated fats to less than 10% of calories
o trans fats as much as possible to less than 1% of calories

*
Dietary Recommendations for Healthy Children

http://www.heart.org/HEARTORG/GettingHealthy/Dietary-Recommendations-for-Healthy-Children_UCM_303886_Article.jsp

Serve fat-free and low-fat dairy foods. From ages 1–8, children need 2 cups of milk or its equivalent each day. Children ages 9–18 need 3 cups.

*
THE AMERICAN DIABETES ASSOCIATION

http://www.diabetes.org/food-and-fitness/food/what-can-i-eat/fats.html

Some fats, called unsaturated fats, have health benefits like lowering your risk of heart disease. Other fats called saturated and trans fats, or the “bad fats,” increase your risk of heart disease. By knowing the difference, you can include healthy fats in your diet to add flavor and nutritional benefits without increasing your risk of heart disease.

How Much Saturated Fat Can I Eat?

less than 7% of your calories as saturated fat. If you know how many calories you eat, you can use the information on labels to help you stick to your total amount of saturated fat for the day.

• 1200 calories – 9 grams of saturated fat
• 1500 calories – 11 grams of saturated fat
• 1800 calories – 14 grams of saturated fat
• 2000 calories – 15 grams of saturated fat

Limit Trans fats

• Trans fats, like saturated fats, can raise blood cholesterol levels. Your goal should be to eat as little trans fat as possible.

JEN3
04-06-2012, 03:31 PM
COLUMBIA UNIVERSITY
COLUMBIA SURGERY
http://columbiasurgery.org/pat/cardiac/heart_reports_dec07.pdf

Page 2

NY Trans-fat ban successful!

Trans-fats are not essential and have no known benefit. Eliminating trans-fat from the diet should be your goal.

*

Page 1

Heart Disease & Sexual Health

Risk factors the same for heart disease

“Erectile dysfunction and cardiovascular disease share many of same risk factors.”

Diabetes, “This represents the most common risk factor, as more than half of all men with diabetes have ED.”

*

JEN3
04-06-2012, 05:09 PM
New York-Presbyterian Hospital Preventive Cardiology Program.

http://www.hearthealthtimes.com/pdf/english/Patient_Page_Summer_2007_English.pdf

(One Printable Page, Full Information At Link)

What Are The Different Types Of Dietary Fats?

Certain types of fat in your diet can worsen your blood cholesterol levels, while others can improve your cholesterol profile. Here is information on the types of fats to limit in your diet and good fats to keep in your diet.

Information Includes:

Dietary Fats To Limit

Dietary Fats To Keep In Your Diet

How To Choose Fats In Your Diet Wisely, (Chart)

*

JEN3
04-06-2012, 05:21 PM
*Excellent

COLUMBIA UNIVERSITY

FAT: THE GOOD & THE BAD

5 PAGE REPORT

Gives food choices and explanations

http://www.cumc.columbia.edu/dept/integrativetherapies/documents/Fat-thegoodandthebad.IntegrativeTherapiesProgram.pdf

SarahFairhope
04-06-2012, 05:28 PM
I'm of the opinion that sat/trans fats are the least healthy fat options, so we try to avoid them in our house. I've got two very young ones, so LOW fat isn't a good choice, instead of sat/trans fat, we double down on polyunsat fats. I grew up in a family that only used full fat products. At first, the idea of not having full fat milk made me blue. Now, whole milk tastes like cream to me. And I love lower fat sour cream - its got more zip! Um, but ice cream, I'd rather have the real deal! I am just sure the ice cream is a big "rare" treat.

I think making the switch over to lower fat dairy over time isn't so bad and can save quite a few calories. :)

Elladorine
04-06-2012, 06:13 PM
My main concern with dairy fat is simply the amount of calories. I rarely drink milk anymore; I like skim fine but my husband will only drink whole. Either way, the carton ends up going bad before all of it gets drunk so it's not bought very often.

I do have plain fat-free Greek yogurt every day. I use it for fruit dip, smoothies, and to make salad dressing, as it's less calories, healthier, and/or better tasting than buying pre-made dips and dressings. I also figure I could the protein as a bonus. I usually have one slice of cheese a day, typically sharp cheddar, because it goes well with a sliced apple or chopped up in a salad. I waver between full fat and low fat when buying cheese depending on what's on sale and what looks good.

As for the fat content, I'll actually add olive oil to the dressing I make with the yogurt since I know for sure that it's a healthy fat. I'm fine with any low fat/non-fat dairy items except for sour cream, as it has a really weird texture to me.

Trazey34
04-07-2012, 12:54 AM
I like 1% milk, and I eat 2% cottage cheese, it's only about 10 calories more and tastes sooo much better to me. I loathe low-fat cheese unless it's completely hidden in something, but then what's the point? I'll take less of a full fat cheese any day! and if you use reallllly sharp cheese in cooking you end up using a lot less anyway.

I look at my grandparents who are in their 80s who have eating eggs/cheese/ cream/milk in full-fat varieties their entire lives and neither one has any health issues whatsoever. That being said, they eat dessert ONCE per week. They don't know what junk food is. They've never eat @ McDonalds LOL

JEN3
04-07-2012, 08:49 PM
All the fat belongs to the LORD.
http://bible.cc/leviticus/3-16.htm

*

beautifulone
04-07-2012, 10:03 PM
I like 1% milk, and I eat 2% cottage cheese, it's only about 10 calories more and tastes sooo much better to me. I loathe low-fat cheese unless it's completely hidden in something, but then what's the point? I'll take less of a full fat cheese any day! and if you use reallllly sharp cheese in cooking you end up using a lot less anyway.

I look at my grandparents who are in their 80s who have eating eggs/cheese/ cream/milk in full-fat varieties their entire lives and neither one has any health issues whatsoever. That being said, they eat dessert ONCE per week. They don't know what junk food is. They've never eat @ McDonalds LOL

I'm not sure if this is really obvious, as I'm not really a cheese eater so forgive me if it is. :) But how do you know which cheeses are 'sharp'? Is it by age? Or is it actully labelled as 'sharp' on the package? Also, I've seen old cheddar, but I'm not crazy about cheddar... do you know if old mozarella, swiss, and provologne are also options? I know these are probably cheese-newbie questions. Thanks!!

SarahFairhope
04-07-2012, 10:24 PM
Yep, it'll say "sharp" right on the package. And sharper cheeses are aged longer. Some cheese makers even get cute with their packaging: Super Sharp, Seriously Sharp, etc.

I'm not sure if this is really obvious, as I'm not really a cheese eater so forgive me if it is. :) But how do you know which cheeses are 'sharp'? Is it by age? Or is it actully labelled as 'sharp' on the package? Also, I've seen old cheddar, but I'm not crazy about cheddar... do you know if old mozarella, swiss, and provologne are also options? I know these are probably cheese-newbie questions. Thanks!!