General chatter - Do you think it is okay to be fat and accept it?




Candeka
03-15-2012, 07:58 PM
This thread is by no means intended to be disrespectful to anyone. I am just wondering peoples opinions. This comes after reading an article about how "society is destroying itself by becoming more accepting of overweight/obese individuals". Do you think that it is okay for so many to be fat and they should be able to do what they want, or do you believe that by accepting obesity as more of a "norm" now a days, that we are in turn helping with the struggles in the health care system and encouraging those to be overweight since it is slowly becoming more acceptable. Thus, putting less pressure on those to lose weight?

As stated before, this is just meant to be an informal discussion and not an attack on anyone. I like hearing others opinions, even on controversial topics as this is when you always seem to learn new things. It also helps you understand where other people come from and may help shed a light on your own opinion and create a new understanding. With that said, I am staying neutral on the topic until others have posted as I do not want my words to sway the opinions/ideas of others who disagree with me!


Serenity100
03-15-2012, 08:13 PM
It is not okay to accept being fat if it causes your health to deteriorate. I think there is plenty of research and data to prove that being seriously overweight affects your health. If your fat is causing you not to be able to live the life you wish to live then you need to do something about it.

I don't understand why people are allowed to get so obese that they qualify as disabled and can get a scooter to ride around on because their bones can't hold up their weight. Hellooo, you are killing yourselves.

sensualappeal
03-15-2012, 08:16 PM
I think it's okay to be big boned, it's okay to be chubby, as long as you personally are okay with the way you look and it is not causing your health to be at risk, I think that is okay. That's speaking about being chubby at most.

Personally, I do not think being obese should under any circumstance be a norm. It is not okay for people to accept being obese when it is a health risk. It should be required for these people to get better and to get out of a situation which causes their healthy lives harm.


mandalinn82
03-15-2012, 08:26 PM
It should be required for these people to get better and to get out of a situation which causes their healthy lives harm.

This seems to me like a slippery slope. First off, while we can probably agree that most obesity is caused by controllable factors, some cases, at least, are not (endocrine disorders and the like). Second, there are a myriad of different lifestyle choices that one can make that prevent optimum health. It would be, I would think, a double standard to say that not "fixing" your obesity is unacceptable, but that not "fixing" your low veggie consumption, smoking, or to take it to the extreme, a woman's lack of childbearing or decision not to breastfeed (both of which lower lifetime breast cancer risk) is OK.

And what of the people who are normal weight, but don't have healthy habits? Or the people with healthy habits who are overweight? Are we really saying it's not OK to be heavy, or not OK to have unhealthy habits in general? In which case, who decides which people have habits unhealthy enough to warrant intervention?

Also, I think that such a judgment on whether "fat is OK" is super premature at this point. The fact is, we haven't finished untangling what causes cancer, heart disease, or other poor health outcomes. We have some correlations, but no empirical, no-doubt-about it evidence, around so many things related to weight and health. For example, no one has ever shown that a formerly obese person who then loses weight has any decrease in mortality compared to their obese self. There are ten million questions like this, and we're still teasing out the answers. And I'd hate to mandate that anyone do anything until we know exactly what they need to DO.

berryblondeboys
03-15-2012, 08:34 PM
I look at my mother in law who was a a lifetime at a normal weight, but never very fit and she isn't that unfit. But her health problems are Creeeping up and many of them were preventable with exercise or less sugar (blood pressure, osteoporosis, heart problems and high cholesterol). Just exercise would have prevented most of it.

Eta: I think they should concentrate less on fatness and concentrate more on lack of fitness.

MariaMaria
03-15-2012, 08:39 PM
I'm really uncomfortable with telling anyone else what he or she should think about his or her own body, and even more uncomfortable with telling them that they shouldn't accept themselves.

My house is glass. So is yours. Have some kindness.

guacamole
03-15-2012, 09:02 PM
As we all know, there are so many factors that go into becoming obese and staying obese - just prescribing diet and exercise as the simple solution is much too.....simplistic.

I know that there was a time a few years back when I had just accepted the fact that I was now destined to be overweight and unhealthy. There was nothing I could do about it. My blood pressure was so high, I saw stars every time I got up from bed or a seated position. My legs and ankles and feet were so swollen with edema that I actually heard squishing and swishing when I walked. I was winded going up the stairs from my living room to my bedroom. It hurt to move. I pretty much gave up.

If I heard another doctor tell me that "losing weight" was what I needed to get better, I thought I would scream. It's like telling a single welfare mom that "getting a high paying job" is what is needed to get off of welfare. Duh! Now where is the genie to grant my three wishes and make the magic happen?

Although my obesity and health issues began with a difficult pregnancy and preeclampsia, there were also major emotional and addictive components to my weight gain that weren't going to disappear overnight. Food was my friend and no one was going to take my best friend away from me! Not without a fight. I knew people looked at me in disgust and also blamed me for the health problems I was having. I knew people saw me as someone selfish who had a completely preventable disease that I was refusing to do anything about. I didn't know how to help myself. You can write it down on paper, memorize it, recite it - it doesn't mean you actually "know" it.

I think that people who are obese and stuck and want to do something about it do deserve our help and the best health care they can get. I did a lot of reading of "fat acceptance" blogs when I was fat. The women (it was mainly women) who wrote them were vibrant and stylish and living life to the fullest. They claimed to have no health issues and said they were in better shape than most skinny people. I don't know the ages of the bloggers I read, but I would guess that they were in their 20s or early 30s. I think that the older you get, the more being overweight affects your health. I became obese in my late 30s. I couldn't relate to being a vibrant and curvy woman, because being obese had a horrible impact on my health and I felt ill all the time - to the point of being virtually housebound. However, if you are curvy and healthy and love being a large woman - go for it!

Vex
03-15-2012, 09:33 PM
I like to think of this in 2 separate ways.

1. Accepting physical obesity
2. Socially acceptable behavior

Accept physical obesity? No, I don't. I don't like it that it may make health insurance premiums go up. (just like smoking) I don't enjoy seeing obese people, especially kids. Is it my place to tell them to get healthy? Absolutely not. I don't want to force anyone to do anything with their bodies. I would be willing to encourage a healthy lifestyle, if that's something they are in fact looking for.

Now, if someone is obese does that make them fair game to be treated badly? No way. I don't accept obesity, but I don't approve of the "fatties" name calling and social stigma attached to it. I've had it done to me and will never do it to someone else. I'm teaching my son the same.

bargoo
03-15-2012, 09:50 PM
What I think is sad is the number of obese people who have just accepted their obesity as something they can't do anything about . I have heard some of them say, " I have gained a lot of weight, that's just the way I am." Or "I just can't lose weight, no matter how much I try". Of course their diet consits of fried chicken, mashed potatoes and gravy and plenty of bread and butter. I don't advocate the entire country be model thin but I would like to see people be more health conscious. many times just losing 10-15 pounds can improve health.

threenorns
03-15-2012, 10:51 PM
i know *plenty* of ppl who are in superb physical health but they are definitely packing. many strength athletes are fat, although the sport is now trending less toward the old-skool "overstuff then cut" routine and more toward "just put on what you need, no more".

i think when it comes to being in charge of someone else's health - ie, children - it is vital they be taught proper eating habits and that includes just not having the crap in the house. it's not fair for a child to be told "no, you can't have chips, they're junk" and then dad's tipping the bag back while watching the game or mom's tucking into ice cream while on the phone to her bff.

kaplods
03-15-2012, 11:12 PM
I tried desperately to lose weight most of my life, and then I encountered the "fat acceptance" rhetoric that suggested that dieting CAUSED more obesity than it cured, and it made me wonder whether dieting actually had made me super morbidly obese. I wondered if I had never dieted, would I never have become overweight (or at least never become obese or heck, if I only had never become morbidly obese, maybe "not dieting" would have been better).

I decided to give up dieting and accept my weight and see what happened.

As it turns out I gained a few pounds over my last highest weight (as always happened after I quit any diet), but what I didn't do was start up another diet - and the weight gain stopped.

Wow, I thought - what if I had never dieted? What if my parents would have not put me on my first diet in kindergarten? What if I had not dieted through all of gradeschool, middleschool, high school and college?

I don't know, but I am glad that I stopped dieting. I didn't have a "better plan" to replaced the dieting, but I did know that I had to stop doing what I'd always done, or I was going to get what I always got - which was weight gain, not weight loss.

It took me a years to discover how to get the weight off, and it was NOT with a traditional diet, or even anything that resembled mainstream weight loss advice. I had to learn to BREAK THE RULES, in order to get healthier and get the weight off.

At the time I decided to stop dieting (as I had always been taught, counseled, and told to do it by everyone including the people who were supposed to be the experts), it was the best decision I could make. I knew that what I was doing wasn't working (and was doing the reverse of what I wanted) so all I knew was that stopping the dieting train wreck was necessary.

So before we judge folks for "not doing something" about their weight, we have to have a workable alternative for them, and right now we don't.

My current doctor is a godsend. He's a bit chubby (not obese, in fact most people wouldn't even call him overweight at his age, but being a doctor he would like to lose the 20 lbs that he could lose if he were able to). When I asked him if he could tell me how to lose weight, he said, "if you find out, come back and tell me."

He is perhaps the first doctor who "got it," because he'd tried (and failed) to lose weight himself. He did suggest that I might find low-carb helpful as some research recently (at the time) had found that folks with insulin resistance (which I had) lost better on low-carb. He warned me not to go too-low, and I started experimenting with carb levels.

For myself, I had to stop "trying to lose weight" in order to do so. And this I think this may be a method that might work for many more people, but it's not an "acceptable" strategy (ironically, except by the "fat acceptance" community).

I decided that my goal was going to be getting healthier, and that I wasn't going to worry or focus on my weight at all. I would start adding healthier diet and exercise habits into my life, slowly only making changes that I was willing to commit to forever, even if no weight loss whatsover resulted.

At first, I got no weight loss (but I was getting healthier - obviously healthier. And isn't that the goal everyone "says" they want - or is it really just that we despise fat people and "health" seems a reasonable excuse to pin our contempt upon).

The only weight concession that I made, was that I would consciously work to prevent weight gain. And if I lost so much as a single pound, it would become one of the pounds I would struggle to maintain.

For the first two years, I didn't lose, but I didn't gain either (or to be more accurate, I gained and lost the same 5 to 10 lbs).

Then the weight started coming off, because all those small changes had started to accumulate. I went from essentially bed-ridden to being able to go to the gym 3 times a week and exercise 20 to 60 minutes.

I only was able to lose weight by following the HAES movement within the fat acceptance community (the goal to work at getting healthier without addressing weight at all).

The only concession I made that was not in keeping with the Fat Acceptance rhetoric (at least to my knowledge) was my goal and focus on "not gaining." In a very small way, I did make it about the weight, but the weight was no number ten on my priority list, not #1.

We can't see whether someone is trying and failing, or even if they have given up because it's the only solution they can see: I still wholeheartedly believe that if I had not found a way to successfully lose weight, I would be better off not trying to lose weight at all than to continue trying and failing.

If I had learned to focus on healthy behaviors and had learned to "not diet" in first grade, maybe I would never have been overweight as an adult. I don't know, but I do know that the dismal diet success rates is not because people aren't trying their damndest, it's because our most common methods are WRONG for most people.

And unless we're going to FORCE thin people into healthy behaviors, it's the ultimate in hypocracy to do so with overweight folks.

However, what is sad is that we do virtually the opposite - we PUNISH fat people for any public attempt at getting healthy. We all know that it's socially taboo for a fat person (especially a fat woman) to be seen being active or exercising in public. If she dances, swims, or bicycles - she faces more ridicule than if she's sitting on a park bench eating an ice cream cone.

We've taught obese folks that they don't have a right to those things. Being active is something to be done in public only after the weight is lost, not as a way to lose the weight. The alternative is public derision.

The nastiest comments I've ever recieved or witnessed being thrown at another person were always when "we" (the fat folk, usually women) were breaking the stereotype:

eating a salad (who does she think she's kidding, she's probably going to go home and eat three cakes --- HA HA or maybe a small child).


in a health food store (stares and eyerolls, and comments on what we "really eat")

swimming (well duh - we all know that anywoman who isn't a supermodel should never even be in a swim suit, let alone actually swim in it).

dancing (more stares, eyerolls, laughing, namecalling or worse - blatant flirting and even attempts at stealing our partners and even spouses away from us, ecause obviously we're not competition for any thinner woman - and I do mean any thinner woman)

bicycling (why this is really damned hilarious, apparently. I've even seen it ridiculed in magazines - with the suggestion that such a person exercise at home so as to spare society from the horror of seeing buttcheek spillage).

Since I was a teenager, I was always horrified when I attended meetings for weight/eating issues such as Weight Watchers, TOPS (taking off pounds sensibly - great group by the way), OA, at how many women voiced their shame in attending the group (and how many let that shame prevent them from returning).

One of the most common factors/components of agoraphobia is weight issues (real or imagined). Many women are trapped in their own homes because they fear being seen in public at all (and may even believe they don't DESERVE to be seen in public).

Fat acceptance sometimes is the first step in getting better. First by realizing that fat does not strip a person of basic human rights and dignity, and secondly by realizing that fat is not the most important issue. Health does and should "trump" weight.

If we really were "health" oriented, women (and more and more young men) are risking not just their health, but their very lives by extremely unhealthy and even life-threatening weight loss.

astrophe
03-15-2012, 11:13 PM
Do you think it is okay to be fat and accept it?

Text to Self:

Sure. If you are otherwise happy, be happy then!

To be obese is sometimes a "work in progress" thing that people deal with for long periods as they seek better health, fitness etc. Making it thru this transitional phase with a good attitude, accepting that I am fat for now -- serves me a lot better than beating myself up about it for the duration. Jeez!

Text to World:

Accepting physical obesity?

Other people don't have to love fat physiques. Everyone is attracted to whatever it is they are attracted to.

Healthwise? That's between you and your doctor and I'd expect a doctor to tell you the honest truth about the problems with being overweight/obese. Whether you do anything with that info, that's your business. But I'd expect a doctor to tell you the truth, with some decorum, but not shy away from telling you.

Socially acceptable behavior -- not it isn't nice to make fun of fat people. ANY people for whatever their perceived difference -- being another gender, being another color, being another religion, orientation, whatever.

I'm not going to presume that a stranger I see is the person they were. For instance -- larger person in a scooter? I won't presume THIS is their starting point. They could very well have progressed from being a shut in. And just starting to get about again. So good for them! Why presume they do NOTHING about their health?

With people I do know? There depending on the situation I might venture something like "Hey, are you ok? I've noticed that you don't look quite yourself."

I was recently talking to a friend about another friend who seems to have been drinking a lot more and showing the weight gain from that. So we're concerned about what may be going on under there. I thought I was imagining things but friend confirmed so now we've decided to gently approach drinking friend and inquire. Could very well tell us to mind our own biz, which is fair enough. On the other hand, if your friends and fam don't ask because they care for you, who will?

A.

peachypeg
03-15-2012, 11:42 PM
I watched "My 600 lb Life" on TLC. The one boy that I felt so bad for lived with his parents, and they nearly forced him to eat after his operation. His parents were also overweight. Yes, it would have been "easy" to do it after surgery......but not when you don't have support. That show was a real eyeopener for me. I was never close to 600 lbs.....but I saw that I could head in that direction. (We all can)

When I look at tv, I see how our world is becoming.....larger. To the point that some clothing manufacturers are redoing the sizes. 6 is now like an old 8. So to me, adding a bit (or even more than a bit) has not just become the norm, it is now just who we are. Is it right? I don't know. What I do know, the "healthy" weight that the old insurance charts state for me is 95 lbs. There is NO Way in Hades that I will weigh that....and personally that would not be healthy for me to even try it. I used to be VERY athletic and not even considered chunky but was never 95 lbs. I had muscle and with it....weight. Now I have weight and a scared up belly that will never be firm again. I am ok with not being 95 but also not ok being 170.

Anyhow......I do think that being 600 lbs should not be accepted.....by anyone. However, being a healthy weight....no matter what it is.....should be ok. I know I am not healthy right now....and that is unacceptable. No one should accept it. However, when I get to a lower weight (my goal is 130) I can only hope I will be healthy. I will at least know I have changed my eating habits and exercise routine. That to me (no matter my weight) should be acceptable. By everyone.

AprilA
03-16-2012, 12:13 AM
I walked past a church hall in our street earlier today and they're painting the kitchen and store room and they'd cleared out some furniture they don't need or use anymore. Out front was what would have been built as a four seater in the 1950's. It had 4 distinct sitting places. But it would generally have to be used as a 2 seater today.
It's true we're on a slippery slope. But people who are bigger (lets face it that's a lot of people!) need to feel accommodated and cared for in public spaces. I think "tough love" is something they need to sign up for when they're ready.
What I'm really not OK with is people filling their shopping carts with toxic junk that's being marketed to them in a way that leads them to think they're doing no harm to themselves and their families.
I have a problem with the marketing of junk as something else, NOT with the people...
I'm especially not OK with these standards being modelled to kids.

sensualappeal
03-16-2012, 01:16 AM
Eta: I think they should concentrate less on fatness and concentrate more on lack of fitness.

Great point. Fitness is definitely something is often look over when it comes to losing weight, people often only focus on eating less. Same for skinny people, they eat like CRAP because they know they are naturally skinny but they still do harm to their bodies and will develop similar diseases if they don't take control of their diets.

Vex
03-16-2012, 09:20 AM
Kinda of makes me think about airplane seats too. What should we do with those?

Everyone wishes they were bigger, even normal sized people. No one wants to sit next to an obese person either. (I wouldn't want to sit next to me!) Is it fair to charge these people more for another seat? What if they don't have the money on them? What if there is no other seat, should they be bumped?

Personally, I think the airlines shouldn't have to accommodate larger sized people. It's really great customer service if they do, but forced? No.

runningfromfat
03-16-2012, 09:44 AM
This is a question that I think is impossible to answer with just a yes or no answer. Instead, it's better to separate into a few different issues:

- Discrimination based on someone's weight is NOT acceptable. Jokes about one's weight are not acceptable, and defining beauty on weight alone is not acceptable.

- A greater focus needs to be placed on healthy eating and exercise. That includes massive re-education on what healthy eating includes. Schools are doing a horrible job at this and many parents just don't know how to cook healthy food on a budget (because it's freaking hard to do!!!). Gym is being cut from schools, and where I live at least, there aren't a lot of public parks and/or safe areas to exercise in poorer neighbourhoods.

- Urban food deserts NEED to be dealt with. I've lived in the inner city and can tell that are definitely areas where people have very, very limited access to fresh fruit, veggies, and meat.

- Doctors need to be better educated. That need to stop focusing on BMI and be retrained to test body fat percentage. They also need to help their patients learn what they CAN do in terms of exercise with physical ailments. So often you hear "oh have a knee injury so you can't do XYZ." That's fine and important to say but they also need to help patients found exercises that they can do within their physical limitations.

- Restaurants need to take a hard look at what they are marketing to consumers and companies need to do the same in terms of prepacked food. There are just too many additives that don't need to be there and I almost feel it's a race to see who can include the most sugar in products, when it's really not needed. Something has to be changed here but I'm honestly not sure what the best approach is.

In terms of accepting overweight individuals and equal members of society, well, I'm 100% for that. But what I don't accept is how many weight loss myths are perpetuated by our society, how difficult it can be to have access to healthy foods/exercise, and how low of a priority exercise has taken in modern society.

runningfromfat
03-16-2012, 10:05 AM
guacamole mentioned this but I also wanted to add that I think a real effort needs to be put forth to explaining and understanding the psychological issues behind weight gain. I used to be a really bad emotional eater and if I would've understood that better a long time ago it might have said me a lot of weight loss effort. There are others who purposely (or subconsciously) gain weight to hide themselves after some form of abuse. Others might have depression or eat to deal with anxiety.

What I'm trying to say is that access to group support and/or counselling should be available (yes through a comprehensive health care plan) to deal with these issues. It's going to be A LOT cheaper to provide counselling for eating related issues and help someone overcome then than paying for weight related health issues in the long run. I definitely know of a lot of people (and I put myself in that category at my highest weight) who WANT to change but feel hopeless or overwhelmed by the process. I don't think tough love is the answer at all in these cases because many times there is already the desire there but not the knowledge. Using tough love is more likely to lead to unhealthy eating habits when a person doesn't have the proper education first.

sontaikle
03-16-2012, 11:49 AM
I think this is a very difficult question to answer.

I think right now we have too many extremes. The fat acceptance movement refuses to accept the fact that health issues can arise from obesity and shuns any doctor who suggests weight loss for an individual, while society as a whole shuns fat people in general and lowers them to the bottom rung of society. We need a middle ground here and it's quite difficult to find.

All overweight people are not about to keel over and die, but I think it would be remiss for doctors to completely remove weight from the equation. Then again I think they rely on it too much to diagnose issues that people have that may be caused by other things. There are healthy and fit fat people—I was one—just at there are healthy and fit thin people. I've seen people twice my size run longer than I can, after all.

Overweight folks should not be ostracized by society either though. As far as I'm concerned it is none of my business as to how much someone weighs. Nor is it anyone else's business as to how much I weigh unless I wish to disclose that information. Granted, problems arise when size causes disruptions, such as on the case of an airplane or an amusement park ride, but I still don't have a clear opinion on this matter and I'm not sure there is a right or wrong answer for dealing with these circumstances.

My opinion has really changed on this matter since losing weight. Through a lot of the fat acceptance blogs, etc. I was able to feel better about myself, but I also thought that weight loss was just impossible. It was also "bad" according to those people. However, since losing weight I feel so much better, that quite frankly it's hard to ignore the difference. I'm not talking about being more confident in my skin—I am better in that sense—but I feel so much more healthier and energetic. I can physically do so much more than I could just a year a go. I also don't want to sit around anymore, when I didn't mind doing that before.

It's really hard to pinpoint where the causes lie, but the fact is that a large portion of our population is overweight and obese. There has to be a reason as to why this is happening. After all, if some people were just meant to be fat, wouldn't the rates of obesity simply stay stagnant for the most part? Some cite the fact that it's more acceptable to be overweight, but I think it's just common human decency to accept individuals for the way they are.

lucky8
03-16-2012, 12:08 PM
i am all for people having confidence and i know some obese people who have sky high confidence and i truly respect that and wish you could bottle it. Its one thing to accept who you are and another to neglect and be in denial.

I think its a hard subject as it depends on how big a person is .....once it get life threatening or could cause ill health it should be looked at simply for the persons well being ( this having known and been close too two people who have passed away young due to being obese)
But on the other had if someone is happy and there health isnt majorly at risk then who is anyone to judge x

PinkLotus
03-16-2012, 04:54 PM
I don't think being extremely obese should be seen as acceptable, however I do think it would be a good thing for society to be a little more understanding and perhaps more sympathetic (for lack of a better word) towards people with weight problems. For a lot of people (like myself) it's not as simple as just "stop eating unhealthy foods!" There are emotional issues tied in with food...emotional eating, stress eating. Things like that are not easy to overcome. While I don't doubt that there are tons of obese people out there who just eat because they like to eat and don't give a crap about being healthy, I would imagine that there are just as many obese people out there (or more) who hate being obese, who would love nothing more than to be thin and healthy, but struggle because it's not always so black and white. A lot of people (not all, obviously) who have never had weight/food issues have the attitude of "well just stop eating and you won't be fat anymore" because they can't possibly understand what it's like to struggle with weight and food. While I don't expect them to understand (because really, how could they?), I wish more people did, or at least tried to.
Also, I know a couple of people who are very large, and have the attitude of "I'm fat and I love it!" and don't seem to put effort into losing weight. But under the surface, I know (because they've confided in me) that their attitude is a defense mechanism, and deep down they hate how they look, but are struggling with changing.
So the bottom line for me is, I don't think that the emphasis should be put on size necessarily, it should be put on being healthy in general. That is the most important thing.

cherrypie
03-16-2012, 05:21 PM
what does that mean exactly "is it acceptable"? should we make it illegal? force fat camps on people? or just ridicule them and let them know they aren't acceptable? Cause really, I don't notice it being so acceptable now.

Being a little overweight is not really the automatic early death sentence popular opinion would like you to believe. Lots of thin people are unhealthy, eat crap, smoke, drink, and dont exercise. Lots of overweight people eat healthy and get a little exercise. Most of the time I think people going on and on about other people's "health" are just using it as an excuse to criticize others.

4star
03-16-2012, 11:23 PM
Well I have read articles on both sides of the fence. The fat acceptance crowd really does make good points about not judging people and discriminating against them and I agree with that b/c you don't know someone's special challenges. Some injuries and medical conditions make it very painful to even move or almost impossible and it's a shame those people get judged every day for what others perceive is not wanting to make healthy changes. I have a lot of compassion for those people b/c [U]it is [U] really hard to lose weight after injury or illness when you simply can not do much physical activity.

On the other hand, it makes me sad to think that someone might give up on living healthier and having a good fitness level b/c they just don't care. I still don't think they should be judged b/c some people have even more deadly habits and we're guaranteed our persuit of happiness, at least in the U.S., even if it isn't the healthiest thing.

I don't buy into the obesity costing us lots of money line of thinking. I know it ups the cost but so do many unhealthy habits that people have. I personally think that like smoking or drinking, it's used as a "reason" to up the costs for consumers, seems logical enough but money is still made and that's the bottom line, companies making more money.... But then, I don't really carry a torch for villianizing smokers, or alcoholics, or people who are getting treatments for STD, or gym rats who injure themselves b/c they are hooked on the gym....it's collective and we all take our chunk out of that collective fund to some extent whether you are getting your 3rd knee surgery or getting your gallbladder out. No one lives an ideal life. Everyone needs health care at some point and it costs money.

I don't really care too much about what a person's weight is. I think health and fitness should be the focus b/c a healthy, fit person that's a little overweight is going to be much better off than an out of shape person that's in the healthy weight range.

Justwant2Bhealthy
03-17-2012, 12:51 AM
I agree with a lot of what 4STAR said, so I won't repeat it all. I have never held someone's size against them for any reason, whether big or small (my DH is very thin; only 120 lbs with his clothes on). I judge people by their personality more. You can be a very good looking person on the outside but be a very ugly one on the inside, and visa-versa for that matter (very beautiful on the inside) ...

I have a lot of physical challenges myself, so it is upsetting when I am judged for my weight alone. I walk with two canes; some days I can walk better than others. I just do my best each day, eat as healthy as I can, and choose other exercises that I can do.

An large city emerg nurse once said that she sees more average size people die in the ER than big people; and that people should just live their lives the best they can and enjoy it. Lots of slim people have bad health habits (ciggies, alcohol, drugs, junk food); and I eat better than many of them. It is sad & insulting how people just assume that I don't eat healthy becuz of my weight or size (or assume that I don't care).

My skinny husband doesn't eat as healthy as me, and eats almost twice as much. Recently, a man made a comment while we were in the grocery store; and I was fuming (nicely though ;)) becuz what they don't realize is that my skinny husband eats a lot of food and most of what's in the cart. Grrr ...

Anyhow, I think people need to mind their own business; and stop judging and discriminating against people becuz of their size or whatever. We truly don't know what challenges & struggles these people are facing in their daily lives that led to the problem in the first place. What they really need is compassion, support, and kindness so they can heal, become healthier, and fully enjoy their lives ... :D

ManicMinx
03-17-2012, 04:02 AM
I think it's ok, but only if you truly feel good in your own body.

knoxie
03-17-2012, 05:28 AM
On an individual level I think if self-acceptance is your only alternative to being downright miserable about being fat then go right ahead. However if that acceptance means you resolve not to try and do anything at all about it then it's as negative as being miserable, if not moreso.

I hate the idea that slim = good and fat = bad, but from a health perspective extra weight does often have negative implications. It's a fine line to tread between promoting healthy weight and vilifying fat people.

PS: No offense intended by using the word 'fat' to describe being overweight - I know it's a sensitive issue.

dragonwoman64
03-17-2012, 02:19 PM
I'm really uncomfortable with telling anyone else what he or she should think about his or her own body, and even more uncomfortable with telling them that they shouldn't accept themselves.

My house is glass. So is yours. Have some kindness.

amen. especially since I haven't met that many people who are accepting of their bodies not matter what their size.

I did think "society is destroying itself" because of this reason strikes me as big time hyperbole. I could think of about 100 ways society is destroying itself that I'd put in a priority before it, but I think the weight issue is easier for people to deal with (ie it strikes many as a "no-brainer" that fat people should lose weight to be healthier, and so less a burden on themselves, their families and society; and in reality the issue as a whole is much more complicated as others have pointed out).

Rana
03-17-2012, 07:39 PM
This thread is by no means intended to be disrespectful to anyone. I am just wondering peoples opinions. This comes after reading an article about how "society is destroying itself by becoming more accepting of overweight/obese individuals". Do you think that it is okay for so many to be fat and they should be able to do what they want, or do you believe that by accepting obesity as more of a "norm" now a days, that we are in turn helping with the struggles in the health care system and encouraging those to be overweight since it is slowly becoming more acceptable. Thus, putting less pressure on those to lose weight?

First of all, I agree with the others who have said that it's not acceptable to be fat in this society (American). So, I don't think we're quite yet at a place where "it's okay for so many to be fat".

Second of all, I highly doubt that there are many people who are obese who are genuinely happy with their bodies. Like the above poster said, there are very few women who are happy with their bodies and a growing number of men who are also unsatisfied with the shape of their bodies. Again, an indication that our society isn't very accepting, period, regardless of whether it's towards obese individuals or chubby ones or overweight ones or skinny ones (even too skinny is seen as unacceptable).

Third, there is a bigger issue in our society which is not at the individual level. If it were up to me, I wouldn't be overweight. ****, I'd be at 130 lbs and freaking happy about it. But I'm not. It's not for lack of trying. I've done what other people think I don't do, which is exercise 6 days a week, strength and cardio, eat whole foods, take supplements, and I'm still weighing in at 163 lbs. The reason why? Because I have a metabolic disease (PCOS) that prevents my body from losing weight "normally." The incidence of PCOS and other metabolic issues have risen in the last thirty years. Where is it coming from?

Lastly, I think our food corporations (the fact that there are even agricultural corporations is terrible!) are NOT interested in our health, but rather in making money for their shareholders or in the case of the private companies, for the owners/family of that company. They are not interested in making sure that I am getting my vitamins and getting all the fiber and nutrients that I need -- they are interested in making a quick buck. If it comes from my addiction to sugars and fat, no problem! They'll take it! Add to that the local government's lack of interest of developing more parks, eliminating gym class from the schools, making streets too car friendly and not pedestrian friendly, combined with the whole push for surburbia, rather than developing town centers... Man, it's no wonder so many of us are overweight.

In my opinion, the fat acceptance movement is a way to handle the overt discrimination that exists in our society. But I think there are very few folks who genuinely like the idea of being obese. I think most would welcome being healthy and being at a weight that allows them to do what they want to physically.

I think there is a psychological component that has to be addressed and while American society is more open to therapy than others, this should be covered (absolutely RUNNINGFROMFAT) by our insurance companies, with no limits on coverage. Holistic medicine should also be included, as well as gym memberships and other healthy pursuits. This whole concept that a doctor can only prescribe you a diet pill is ridiculous.

runningfromfat
03-18-2012, 12:09 PM
Lastly, I think our food corporations (the fact that there are even agricultural corporations is terrible!) are NOT interested in our health, but rather in making money for their shareholders or in the case of the private companies, for the owners/family of that company. They are not interested in making sure that I am getting my vitamins and getting all the fiber and nutrients that I need -- they are interested in making a quick buck. If it comes from my addiction to sugars and fat, no problem! They'll take it! Add to that the local government's lack of interest of developing more parks, eliminating gym class from the schools, making streets too car friendly and not pedestrian friendly, combined with the whole push for surburbia, rather than developing town centers... Man, it's no wonder so many of us are overweight.

In my opinion, the fat acceptance movement is a way to handle the overt discrimination that exists in our society. But I think there are very few folks who genuinely like the idea of being obese. I think most would welcome being healthy and being at a weight that allows them to do what they want to physically.

I think there is a psychological component that has to be addressed and while American society is more open to therapy than others, this should be covered (absolutely RUNNINGFROMFAT) by our insurance companies, with no limits on coverage. Holistic medicine should also be included, as well as gym memberships and other healthy pursuits. This whole concept that a doctor can only prescribe you a diet pill is ridiculous.

Amen! Like I said above discrimination is never ok. BUT what I see as the much bigger industry is how messed up the food industry is and that there is no support in terms of health care (all the misinformation, lack of coverage of gym memberships/support groups etc). Fixing these things would do a lot in terms of health care costs. Even if it didn't bring everyone to a "healthy" weight, I'm pretty sure it would DRASTICALLY change everyone's health levels, which really should be the aim. ;)

tessendicott
03-18-2012, 08:15 PM
I think it's okay to love yourself, but I don't think accepting that you're fat and saying, "I think I'll just stay like this the rest of my life" is okay.

I feel this way because of the health issues that come with being overweight. I also don't know anyone who is fat and is being really honest with themselves is okay with it either.

Vex
03-18-2012, 08:48 PM
Think about this - what's the difference between obesity and smoking?

Why have we put all sorts of warning labels on cigarettes, yet we don't put a warning on a cheeseburger that's 1500 calories?

Resipoo
03-18-2012, 09:01 PM
I tried desperately to lose weight most of my life, and then I encountered the "fat acceptance" rhetoric that suggested that dieting CAUSED more obesity than it cured, and it made me wonder whether dieting actually had made me super morbidly obese. I wondered if I had never dieted, would I never have become overweight (or at least never become obese or heck, if I only had never become morbidly obese, maybe "not dieting" would have been better).

I decided to give up dieting and accept my weight and see what happened.

As it turns out I gained a few pounds over my last highest weight (as always happened after I quit any diet), but what I didn't do was start up another diet - and the weight gain stopped.

Wow, I thought - what if I had never dieted? What if my parents would have not put me on my first diet in kindergarten? What if I had not dieted through all of gradeschool, middleschool, high school and college?

I don't know, but I am glad that I stopped dieting. I didn't have a "better plan" to replaced the dieting, but I did know that I had to stop doing what I'd always done, or I was going to get what I always got - which was weight gain, not weight loss.

It took me a years to discover how to get the weight off, and it was NOT with a traditional diet, or even anything that resembled mainstream weight loss advice. I had to learn to BREAK THE RULES, in order to get healthier and get the weight off.

At the time I decided to stop dieting (as I had always been taught, counseled, and told to do it by everyone including the people who were supposed to be the experts), it was the best decision I could make. I knew that what I was doing wasn't working (and was doing the reverse of what I wanted) so all I knew was that stopping the dieting train wreck was necessary.

So before we judge folks for "not doing something" about their weight, we have to have a workable alternative for them, and right now we don't.

My current doctor is a godsend. He's a bit chubby (not obese, in fact most people wouldn't even call him overweight at his age, but being a doctor he would like to lose the 20 lbs that he could lose if he were able to). When I asked him if he could tell me how to lose weight, he said, "if you find out, come back and tell me."

He is perhaps the first doctor who "got it," because he'd tried (and failed) to lose weight himself. He did suggest that I might find low-carb helpful as some research recently (at the time) had found that folks with insulin resistance (which I had) lost better on low-carb. He warned me not to go too-low, and I started experimenting with carb levels.

For myself, I had to stop "trying to lose weight" in order to do so. And this I think this may be a method that might work for many more people, but it's not an "acceptable" strategy (ironically, except by the "fat acceptance" community).

I decided that my goal was going to be getting healthier, and that I wasn't going to worry or focus on my weight at all. I would start adding healthier diet and exercise habits into my life, slowly only making changes that I was willing to commit to forever, even if no weight loss whatsover resulted.

At first, I got no weight loss (but I was getting healthier - obviously healthier. And isn't that the goal everyone "says" they want - or is it really just that we despise fat people and "health" seems a reasonable excuse to pin our contempt upon).

The only weight concession that I made, was that I would consciously work to prevent weight gain. And if I lost so much as a single pound, it would become one of the pounds I would struggle to maintain.

For the first two years, I didn't lose, but I didn't gain either (or to be more accurate, I gained and lost the same 5 to 10 lbs).

Then the weight started coming off, because all those small changes had started to accumulate. I went from essentially bed-ridden to being able to go to the gym 3 times a week and exercise 20 to 60 minutes.

I only was able to lose weight by following the HAES movement within the fat acceptance community (the goal to work at getting healthier without addressing weight at all).

The only concession I made that was not in keeping with the Fat Acceptance rhetoric (at least to my knowledge) was my goal and focus on "not gaining." In a very small way, I did make it about the weight, but the weight was no number ten on my priority list, not #1.

We can't see whether someone is trying and failing, or even if they have given up because it's the only solution they can see: I still wholeheartedly believe that if I had not found a way to successfully lose weight, I would be better off not trying to lose weight at all than to continue trying and failing.

If I had learned to focus on healthy behaviors and had learned to "not diet" in first grade, maybe I would never have been overweight as an adult. I don't know, but I do know that the dismal diet success rates is not because people aren't trying their damndest, it's because our most common methods are WRONG for most people.

And unless we're going to FORCE thin people into healthy behaviors, it's the ultimate in hypocracy to do so with overweight folks.

However, what is sad is that we do virtually the opposite - we PUNISH fat people for any public attempt at getting healthy. We all know that it's socially taboo for a fat person (especially a fat woman) to be seen being active or exercising in public. If she dances, swims, or bicycles - she faces more ridicule than if she's sitting on a park bench eating an ice cream cone.

We've taught obese folks that they don't have a right to those things. Being active is something to be done in public only after the weight is lost, not as a way to lose the weight. The alternative is public derision.

The nastiest comments I've ever recieved or witnessed being thrown at another person were always when "we" (the fat folk, usually women) were breaking the stereotype:

eating a salad (who does she think she's kidding, she's probably going to go home and eat three cakes --- HA HA or maybe a small child).


in a health food store (stares and eyerolls, and comments on what we "really eat")

swimming (well duh - we all know that anywoman who isn't a supermodel should never even be in a swim suit, let alone actually swim in it).

dancing (more stares, eyerolls, laughing, namecalling or worse - blatant flirting and even attempts at stealing our partners and even spouses away from us, ecause obviously we're not competition for any thinner woman - and I do mean any thinner woman)

bicycling (why this is really damned hilarious, apparently. I've even seen it ridiculed in magazines - with the suggestion that such a person exercise at home so as to spare society from the horror of seeing buttcheek spillage).

Since I was a teenager, I was always horrified when I attended meetings for weight/eating issues such as Weight Watchers, TOPS (taking off pounds sensibly - great group by the way), OA, at how many women voiced their shame in attending the group (and how many let that shame prevent them from returning).

One of the most common factors/components of agoraphobia is weight issues (real or imagined). Many women are trapped in their own homes because they fear being seen in public at all (and may even believe they don't DESERVE to be seen in public).

Fat acceptance sometimes is the first step in getting better. First by realizing that fat does not strip a person of basic human rights and dignity, and secondly by realizing that fat is not the most important issue. Health does and should "trump" weight.

If we really were "health" oriented, women (and more and more young men) are risking not just their health, but their very lives by extremely unhealthy and even life-threatening weight loss.

This post makes so much sense. I started dieting at age 11 and at age 36 I have morbid obesity to thank for it. I never understood the idea of a healthy lifestyle or positive changes. It was all temporary, just until I could be hot. I get depressed about my weight, but in my heart, I know the true answer for me is to love the woman I am. I'm telling myself to make a goal to not gain another pound. Yes, I want to lose 100 pounds, but I'm healthier if I refuse to gain another.

And, I need to stay off the merry-go-round of weight loss. A friend encouraged me to join WW (again), and I did because I'm too afraid to see the number on the scale. How silly is that? I'm essentially paying someone to weigh me because I don't want to see the number myself. I didn't lose any weight my first week and a half, and yes, it saddened me. But it didn't destroy me like it normally would. I realized that I wasn't gaining. And that is an accomplishment. I was eating much better, and that is a great thing. I'd had more fresh fruits and veggies in that week and a half than I'd had in the last 3 months! And, isn't that wonderful?

The real truth is we don't care about health, we care about looks in this society. And how dare some fat woman actually hold her head up and do things that only the thin are allowed to do.

I want to be that fat woman. Well, I don't want to be fat, but I am. I want it to change, but until it does, I sure wish I could be the fat chick that jobs and eats salads and isn't ashamed.

Resipoo
03-18-2012, 09:10 PM
I just want to add one more thing. Those of you that are saying "it's wrong to accept that you're fat and decide to live with it" are quite interesting to me. Let's be honest here, most people, like 95%, who lose weight regain it (and then some). So, is it so far-fetched to say you accept your fat because chances are you'll always be fat (or get fat again)? Let's get honest about it. We hate fat because it's unattractive. But maybe the fat acceptance folks are on to something we just don't want to accept.

novangel
03-18-2012, 09:28 PM
Why have we put all sorts of warning labels on cigarettes, yet we don't put a warning on a cheeseburger that's 1500 calories?

This is in the works, California I believe.

As far as the rest of this thread I'm not touching it with a 10' pole. Have fun.

sontaikle
03-19-2012, 12:41 AM
I just want to add one more thing. Those of you that are saying "it's wrong to accept that you're fat and decide to live with it" are quite interesting to me. Let's be honest here, most people, like 95%, who lose weight regain it (and then some). So, is it so far-fetched to say you accept your fat because chances are you'll always be fat (or get fat again)? Let's get honest about it. We hate fat because it's unattractive. But maybe the fat acceptance folks are on to something we just don't want to accept.

Please know that I'm not attacking you, just the statistic :)

I want to know where the heck that number comes from because it's so generic. 95% of people who lose weight regain it, but we know nothing about the 95% of people who supposedly regain weight. For example:

Are those people on temporary diets, rather than changing their lives?
What constitutes a regain?
How much weight have those people lost?

In the case of the first point, I think a lot of regaining can be attributed to our diet culture. There is always some new fad diet out there promising fast results with minimal effort. Everything is NOW NOW NOW in our culture that the thought of changing one's life in order to lose and maintain weight loss is very foreign. But still, does the statistic say, separate people who go on a specific diet and then go off from people who choose to incorporate healthy habits instead? If the statistic only counts diet plans, then what happens to people who lose weight without the aid of a diet?

In regards to my second point and third points, we are just told that "95% of people regain the weight." What is THE weight? Is it all of it? Is it some? How much did the person lose? What kind of weight did they regain? None of this is answered. For example, a person straddling the healthy and overweight ranges who keeps losing and regaining the same 30lbs is very different than someone who loses 200lbs and regains 30. I'm sure in the case of the second person that we would not consider them a failure in any sense should we known them personally, but despite the fact that they have maintained a 170lb loss, they are a failure because they regained weight. What about folks who gain muscle weight rather than fat? According to the scale they are failures, but certainly not when we consider their health.

There's so much about that statistic that we aren't told that I'm inclined to say that it's faulty. A lot of people DO regain weight, we all know that, but I'm having trouble believing that the percentage is that high unless someone regaining 1lb is considered a failure of a maintainer.

Candeka
03-19-2012, 02:10 AM
This is in the works, California I believe.

As far as the rest of this thread I'm not touching it with a 10' pole. Have fun.

That is awesome about the calorie warning. I wonder if other states/countries will follow. If you do not understand nutrition/calorie importance (which is not taught in public schools, so how could you?) then it is very easy to eat the wrong foods. Programs to teach more of the population on nutrition importance is vital!

I also had to laugh out loud to the not touching it with a ten foot pole. Even though I created, I am hesitant to respond!

4star
03-19-2012, 09:10 AM
I just want to add one more thing. Those of you that are saying "it's wrong to accept that you're fat and decide to live with it" are quite interesting to me. Let's be honest here, most people, like 95%, who lose weight regain it (and then some). So, is it so far-fetched to say you accept your fat because chances are you'll always be fat (or get fat again)? Let's get honest about it. We hate fat because it's unattractive. But maybe the fat acceptance folks are on to something we just don't want to accept.

It was always well beyond not looking as attractive to me. It was the health problems that it put me at risk for that broke my denial that I wouldn't live as long (or as well) if I kept the weight on. It wasn't worth my health to eat mindlessly, vanity was something I could work around, hence letting myself live in denial so long. Once it has started to affect your general health, it's out of hand and you've got to start fighting for your health. Health is one of those things you have to hold onto tightly b/c if not it can easily slip away.

sontaikle
03-19-2012, 10:31 AM
That is awesome about the calorie warning. I wonder if other states/countries will follow. If you do not understand nutrition/calorie importance (which is not taught in public schools, so how could you?) then it is very easy to eat the wrong foods. Programs to teach more of the population on nutrition importance is vital!

I also had to laugh out loud to the not touching it with a ten foot pole. Even though I created, I am hesitant to respond!

I think it's a good idea to include warnings about high-calorie items, but I think it's much more difficult to do so. When it comes to food there is so much more to the equation then smoking.

Smoking kills, we know this. Unless you're one of the few genetically lucky people who can smoke a pack a day and make it to old age, chances are you will suffer health consequences for your habit.

Eating a 1500 calorie burger will not kill you or cause you to gain weight. Eating it a lot may not kill you or cause you to gain weight—depending on your individual circumstances. If you are like my fiance for example, a 6'3" 24 year old man, you can probably eat that burger quite a number of times and never gain a pound. If you are a 5 foot tall woman and 40 years old then probably you shouldn't be eating it.

Rather than warnings in place, I think education is probably the better bet. Like you said, most people probably have NO IDEA how many calories they should be eating, which is why I think that while it's been very convenient to me as a calorie counter to live in an area where calorie counts are mandated to appear on menus, it does very little to help people regulate their weights. We see on nutrition facts that its based on a 2000 calorie a day diet and many people assume that's how much they should be eating. Well, depending on a number of factors it can be more or less than that.

I think if people learned how many calories were in foods, what a portion size consisted of and how much they should be eating a day, then we might be better off than slapping a warning label on a high calorie food item.

fitness4life
03-19-2012, 10:51 AM
I once said to my now ex husband after having our 4th kid and struggling to keep a healthy lifestyle, "What if I just gave up all the time exercising and got fat for a while and when I regained time for myself, just do the weight loss thing?" He looked at me as if I had three eyes. Thank GOD he did and I quickly maintained my healthy weight. It would have been so much harder to give up and catch up later and at the time, I was looking for an easy way out.

That said, at some point, I remember a conversation with my kid's pediatrician. We both acknowledged that we were slim but a skinny unhealthy. I was watching calories, but hadn't figured out a way to exercise enough with 4 kids under 5 years old.

That kicked my butt into gear. From the very next day on, I re-began my exercise regemine as it were before I had kids. Yes, I was feeling a bit ego-centric when I took time for me and my kids complained (like when I biked with them in the Burley trailer for 2 hours and they were done at 30 minutes), but I found ways to mostly do my self-help when it didn't impede on my duty as a mom.

I'm so glad I did. Now, ten years later, I'm way ahead of the game instead of playing catch up.

I don't know if this answers the OP's question, but from my experience, if you don't accept society's tendancy to just accept non activity and over eating, the only person it hurts is you. If YOU don't care for you, clearly, society won't care for you. Sad, because in the US, our society does care indirectly by providing health care for obesity related illnesses, but the back hand to that is that those that don't care for themselves are shunned in the various ways previous posters described.

It IS like the smokers. We all pay more for smoker related illnesses, too. Does that mean we should embrace and coddle the smokers? No, in fact, we now have laws that make public smoking illegal.

Same with alcohol use! We take away licenses for DUI. Yet there is nothing in place to put exessive caloric consumption in any way illegal. I'm not saying that we should. At ALL. I'm just pointing out what someone had previously mentioned as an analogy.

Food for thought. Sorry for the pun.

astrophe
03-19-2012, 11:16 AM
Why have we put all sorts of warning labels on cigarettes, yet we don't put a warning on a cheeseburger that's 1500 calories?

It doesn't need to be like "WARNING!" but I'd appreciate having nutrition info in restaurant menu items. A few years back I used to have to CALL people about ONE item to gauge it's diabetes friendliness. These days I stick to eating out at places that have it online which makes it a lot easier to get and plan.

The ones that do not? Give me a break. The excuse that it's expensive to do it crock. Got a recipe? Slam it through software, dude. Even fit day will do. It's not like ANY of it is 100% accurate. It's just a reasonable estimate so people can be informed consumers. I think that the high cal places just don't want to put it on there because they worry about sales dropping.

With a young child, VERY few places I go to involve a chef doing the goodies at short notice from things bought that day. MOST of it is chain family-friendly places that serve the same things over and over.

I just don't think they will voluntarily put it on there. Til the state makes 'em do it, they won't.

And think about ads. When was the last time you saw an ad for just apples? Simple, whole foods? Nope. Most of the time it's processed foods.

Most adults don't understand basic nutrition -- never mind going off into special nutrition for diabetes, PCOS, hypothyroid, cancer, whatever. People with extra needs.

I laughed when we got the myplate thing. (http://www.choosemyplate.gov/) That's been around for AGES, even Mom knew that in the 70's and 80's. Dietitian's have known the plate method for a long time. That we had to cruise through "the four food groups" and pals in the 80's and then on to the "food pyramid" in the 90's -- that more food lobby than real health need.

Most people don't stop to think that milk is an OPTIONAL food. Yes, we can have it but seriously? Adults all wean. We don't actually NEED to have cow breastmilk products but the way the dairy industry goes on about it you'd think we'd all fall over from lack of calcium or something. So why is an optional food on there like it is implied at every meal?

Food politics is big, and when you have that going on I don't think the general public is going to get with it unless they make it their business to find out and know. And even then -- it's hard to find.

A.

krampus
03-19-2012, 11:38 AM
Yes and no, but mostly no. I'm talking very overweight/obese, not just a couple extra pounds.

I think everyone should try being fat and being a "healthy" weight. I don't think many people would choose fat.

ValRock
03-19-2012, 11:50 AM
In a word, No.

It is absolutely OK and necessary to love yourself, no matter what. That means caring for your health!!!!

mandalinn82
03-19-2012, 12:45 PM
I want to know where the heck that number comes from because it's so generic. 95% of people who lose weight regain it, but we know nothing about the 95% of people who supposedly regain weight. For example:

Are those people on temporary diets, rather than changing their lives?

What constitutes a regain?

How much weight have those people lost?


I do know the specific statistics for Weight Watchers (which I consider a "lifestyle" type plan, not a "diet" type plan) - these results were published in the International Journal of Obesity. http://www.nature.com/ijo/journal/v25/n3/full/0801521a.html

Based on corrected weights, weight regain from 1 to 5 y following weight loss ranged between 31.5 and 76.5%. At 5 y, 19.4% were within 5 lb of goal weight, 42.6% maintained a loss of 5% or more, 18.8% maintained a loss of 10% or more, and 70.3% were below initial weight.

So at 5 years maintenance, roughly 2/3 of people are below their starting weight, but the vast majority are maintaining a loss of 5-10% of their starting weight, and only 1/5 are within 5 lbs of goal weight. Those numbers ARE better than the general 95% statistic. The sample group was lifetime members of WW - so, those that GOT to goal weight, and then stayed there for a defined period of time...that definitely plays a role.

sensualappeal
03-19-2012, 01:10 PM
In a word, No.

It is absolutely OK and necessary to love yourself, no matter what. That means caring for your health!!!!

I agree with you. Love your health. Don't sabotage it.

runningfromfat
03-19-2012, 02:25 PM
I do know the specific statistics for Weight Watchers (which I consider a "lifestyle" type plan, not a "diet" type plan) - these results were published in the International Journal of Obesity. http://www.nature.com/ijo/journal/v25/n3/full/0801521a.html



So at 5 years maintenance, roughly 2/3 of people are below their starting weight, but the vast majority are maintaining a loss of 5-10% of their starting weight, and only 1/5 are within 5 lbs of goal weight. Those numbers ARE better than the general 95% statistic. The sample group was lifetime members of WW - so, those that GOT to goal weight, and then stayed there for a defined period of time...that definitely plays a role.

The National Weight Loss Control Registry also has better stats (http://www.nwcr.ws/Research/default.htm) than the 95%. There again, you have to maintain a 30lb+ loss for a year first before even joining.

I think the moral of the story is that you can maintain initially for awhile the easier it gets to maintain your loss. The NWLCR's finding on it can be seen here (http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/10224727?dopt=Abstract)
and how weight loss maintenance becomes easier over time. (http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/11011910?dopt=Abstract)

mandalinn82
03-19-2012, 02:36 PM
I think that even if the "real" stats of folks who lose on a healthy, lifestyle-based plan are close to the WW numbers, that's still pretty disheartening...only 1 in 5 still at goal after 5 years. And again, that's from people who have already reached a defined goal and maintained for some period of time - a huge majority of people don't achieve that. I'm pretty confident that if the statistic was "percentage of people who start a healthy weight loss program and are not within 5 lbs of their goal at the 5 year mark", you'd be very close to that 95% number, if not higher.

Which is not to say that aspiring to a healthier lifestyle isn't a good thing, or that more people ought not to do it. But, to me at least, saying "It's not OK to be fat" implies that there is a successful, reasonably achievable way that we/science/etc know and can implement to NOT be fat anymore, and I don't think the numbers bear that out.

Chubbie Chick
04-10-2014, 01:06 PM
I found your post by accident and it got me thinking as to why I was on this site and I just felt compelled to respond.

Why is it that we must all be boxed into categories? Male or female, young or old, short or tall, black or white, rich or poor, fat or skinny.........

More importantly, why are we so pressured into going along with "the boxing."

I'm just tired of feeling sick and tired. My joints hurt, my back hurts, I have no energy, I tire easy, my cardiologist is concerned because my cholesterol, triglycerides and blood pressure are alarmingly high, I'm pissed because I can't do the things I want to do and I don't want to feel like this anymore. If I felt good at my current weight, I'd be fine and accept it, but I don't. Therefore, I'm going to get healthy and feel good. This means losing weight.

Just my 2 cents.

LittleMissWarhead
04-10-2014, 06:57 PM
I believe that if you sincerely have a problem with yourself being fat and it's causing you medical issues, that or you make yourself and everyone else around you miserable by talking **** about yourself then you need to do something about it. If you're fine in emotional, mental, and physical health and you're still considered obese or overweight, just be yourself. My weight just so happens to **** up all three areas in my life. Might make me shallow towards myself but I'm telling you right now that I wasn't meant to have this body. It doesn't match who I am on the inside. I think it's bullshit to be self deceptive if its ruining your quality of life. "Oh I'm okay with it I will accept myself even though I cry about my weight every day, I don't have much energy, my sex life is suffering, I can't have kids, but everything is a-ok!" NOT! it's cool to be yourself but if it's ****ing with your life you need to make a positive change for your own sake. Just my two cents lol

Paulitens
04-10-2014, 07:31 PM
I think the focus should be on health. Obviously if you're morbidly obese, no matter how confident you feel about yourself, you're not healthy. If you're a bit overweight but your health stats are all amazing, then by all means! Let's accept fat! I always weighted 20lbs more than I was supposed to and was EXTREMELY healthy! I was very athletic, ate well, slept well... not one problem. So I don't see anything wrong with those extra 20lbs I used to carry around.

The problem came with the extra 20 lbs I put on during my first pregnancy, and the 20 more I put on between my first and second baby, and the other 10 I put on after baby #2. Those were unnecessary and not healthy whatsoever, and that's what I'm working on right now.

Wannabeskinny
04-11-2014, 09:37 AM
I'm rather sad to read so many people say that obese people should not accept their fat and that they should try to be healthier. Fat is hard to accept in ourselves and in others. We see it as a physical manifestation of everything that is wrong in this world.

But it is possible to love yourself at any weight. We can strive to be healthier but people overlook that fact that the most important step in good health is nourishing yourself with acceptance! You have to care about yourself, love yourself, enjoy yourself, feel confidence and ease within your mind. Otherwise, what's the point? "If I lose 30lbs I will love myself by default!" is getting us nowhere. Because people do lose that 30lbs and find out "Oh, I still don't really care much for myself after all."

Diets absolutely cause more gains, I see it on the boards every single unfortunate day. "Hi, I'm back, and I gained a bunch of weight again" is like a loop, let's see who's back with a regain today! We don't teach people how to eat balanced meals when they're young, we rely on processed foods to make meals easy and accessible, and then when they get big we tell them to stop eating the foods we offered them. School lunch programs are abysmal, health and physical activity are nearly non-existant and not emphasized as important and that is exacrcerbated by the overwhelming pressure of standardized testing and imbalanced emphasis on academic rigor, and stress levels of the average American far exceeds that of any nation, I'm certain of that.

And of course, the american health system is so expensive that preventative measures don't have a stab in the dark at taking their rightful place of primary importance. Basically, we set people up to be unhealthy and then judge and criticize them for not being healthy. The food industry spends gazillions of dollars making food unavoidable and then society judges us for eating it. When in NYC the mayor was trying to propose a tax on sweetened drinks over 16oz there was a huge uproar over it, we want to do whatever the heck we want and anytime the government tries to rectify the situation we won't allow it.

It is our personal responsibility to get healthy and stay healthy. But the odds are sadly stocked against us. And so we turned to a multi-billion dollar diet industry to solve our problems except that those tactics don't work either. If they did, they wouldn't be necessary anymore. We're being taught all the wrong things and then punished for not getting the right results.

Radiojane
04-11-2014, 12:45 PM
I'm not huge on the fat acceptance movement because it so often turns into anti -skinny rhetoric. "Skinny *****" is not any better than "fat slob".

But: Devil's advocate; I'm 371 pounds. Even on a big frame, I'm carrying at least 150 extra pounds, but my blood work is perfect. I can run, do long laps in the pool and I spent a week last fall hiking Yellowstone with no ill effects. I do not suffer depression, blood sugar issues or joint pain, and even before I lost the first 100, I was in good health. Could I do more with less weight? Most likely. But at this point because I am actively taking care of myself, why wouldn't I love and be proud of what my body can do, especially when I can do more and have better health stats than many of the "just a little overweight" or "perfect weight" people do?

Burl Ives spent most of his 85 years at over 300 pounds and wasn't sick until the last years of his life. My grandfather weighed the same thing his entire adult life, 60 pounds over what was considered a "healthy weight". He was 90 when he died, and he died in his sleep. It's not an automatic death sentence, and it's wrong to assume that anyone carrying extra weight is living on jelly donuts and not getting any exercise. Every once in a while, somebody is just "built like that".

Again - I'm just showing another side, because I have no desire to remain this big. And I think if you start screaming 'fat acceptance' and run out of breath in the middle of your rant, you need to reevaluate your priorities. However, society did this. WE NEVER MADE IT ABOUT HEALTH. We made it about appearances. We told people (women especially) that they weren't as valuable or beautiful if they didn't fit a mold. And people are sick of it, and they're fighting back. Unfortunately instead of throwing out the scale and focusing on proving what they can do (and getting healthier in the process), they're just raising a middle finger to world.

LittleMissWarhead
04-11-2014, 01:30 PM
I'm rather sad to read so many people say that obese people should not accept their fat and that they should try to be healthier. Fat is hard to accept in ourselves and in others. We see it as a physical manifestation of everything that is wrong in this world.

But it is possible to love yourself at any weight. We can strive to be healthier but people overlook that fact that the most important step in good health is nourishing yourself with acceptance! You have to care about yourself, love yourself, enjoy yourself, feel confidence and ease within your mind. Otherwise, what's the point? "If I lose 30lbs I will love myself by default!" is getting us nowhere. Because people do lose that 30lbs and find out "Oh, I still don't really care much for myself after all."

Diets absolutely cause more gains, I see it on the boards every single unfortunate day. "Hi, I'm back, and I gained a bunch of weight again" is like a loop, let's see who's back with a regain today! We don't teach people how to eat balanced meals when they're young, we rely on processed foods to make meals easy and accessible, and then when they get big we tell them to stop eating the foods we offered them. School lunch programs are abysmal, health and physical activity are nearly non-existant and not emphasized as important and that is exacrcerbated by the overwhelming pressure of standardized testing and imbalanced emphasis on academic rigor, and stress levels of the average American far exceeds that of any nation, I'm certain of that.

And of course, the american health system is so expensive that preventative measures don't have a stab in the dark at taking their rightful place of primary importance. Basically, we set people up to be unhealthy and then judge and criticize them for not being healthy. The food industry spends gazillions of dollars making food unavoidable and then society judges us for eating it. When in NYC the mayor was trying to propose a tax on sweetened drinks over 16oz there was a huge uproar over it, we want to do whatever the heck we want and anytime the government tries to rectify the situation we won't allow it.

It is our personal responsibility to get healthy and stay healthy. But the odds are sadly stocked against us. And so we turned to a multi-billion dollar diet industry to solve our problems except that those tactics don't work either. If they did, they wouldn't be necessary anymore. We're being taught all the wrong things and then punished for not getting the right results.

I see what you're trying to say, but I think we all have to be realistic with ourselves. Sometimes it's NOT okay. If you have 5 kids that need you around but you're just so into yourself at say like 300 lbs, that's unhealthy for anyone! You have to have some responsibility for yourself and your children because it gets to the point where it's not all about you. And let's be honest. If we decide to make a change to our bodies can we say that we were satisfied originally with it? Sure, you have to accept the situation but the acceptence...If you accept anything less than the best for yourself in your eyes you are only cheating yourself. I'm not saying this to be politically correct LOL just trying to be honest here.

LittleMissWarhead
04-11-2014, 01:34 PM
Another point i'd like to add real quick; Obesity is a disease. A disease that can be controlled and even cured. I'm not sure about you all but when i hear disease, I'd want to rid myself of it, that's just me! So that being said, if you are informed on your health and health in general, yet you choose to continue going down the path to self destruction, that's pretty ignorant in my opinion.

nonameslob
04-11-2014, 01:47 PM
I think the issue is that while some overweight and obese people may be in good health, others just THINK they are - and either they don't get an annual physical to find out for sure, or their doctors aren't being honest with them about how their weight is affecting their health. From personal experience, my doctor has never so much as even mentioned the fact that I am obese. Even when I started experiencing asthma again, they didn't talk about physical activity with me, they just prescribed an inhaler. When my BP was a little high? No mention of my weight or nutrition.

It's an embarrassing thing to bring up to a doctor. I can understand why so many of us put our blinders on to the whole thing and just go on like everything is honky dory until we have our personal wake-up call.

Hope I didn't go too off track there...

Edited to say...my post didn't take appearances or loving oneself into account at all. I'm just speaking to health. I am jealous of women who love their bodies at ANY size and think that is an incredible thing to be able to do and something that should be encouraged.

Radiojane
04-11-2014, 01:57 PM
I think the issue is that while some overweight and obese people may be in good health, others just THINK they are - and either they don't get an annual physical to find out for sure, or their doctors aren't being honest with them about how their weight is affecting their health. From personal experience, my doctor has never so much as even mentioned the fact that I am obese. Even when I started experiencing asthma again, they didn't talk about physical activity with me, they just prescribed an inhaler. When my BP was a little high? No mention of my weight or nutrition.

It's an embarrassing thing to bring up to a doctor. I can understand why so many of us put our blinders on to the whole thing and just go on like everything is honky dory until we have our personal wake-up call.

Hope I didn't go too off track there...

Edited to say...my post didn't take appearances or loving oneself into account at all. I'm just speaking to health. I am jealous of women who love their bodies at ANY size and think that is an incredible thing to be able to do and something that should be encouraged.


We would all be way better off if the prescription was more often physical activity and better diet than beta blockers and steroids. An ounce of prevention still is worth a pound of cure.

Wannabeskinny
04-11-2014, 02:43 PM
I see what you're trying to say, but I think we all have to be realistic with ourselves. Sometimes it's NOT okay. If you have 5 kids that need you around but you're just so into yourself at say like 300 lbs, that's unhealthy for anyone! You have to have some responsibility for yourself and your children because it gets to the point where it's not all about you. And let's be honest. If we decide to make a change to our bodies can we say that we were satisfied originally with it? Sure, you have to accept the situation but the acceptence...If you accept anything less than the best for yourself in your eyes you are only cheating yourself. I'm not saying this to be politically correct LOL just trying to be honest here.

I'm curious, what did you infer from my post? Because I wasn't saying that people should live their fat. I dislike the fat acceptance movement because of the reasons radiojane listed - it emphasizes loving fat, hating skinny. Not for me.

I was advocating that people approach themselves with kindness. The pressure to diet and lose weight has caused a lot of self loathing. Dieting instructs us to avoid certain foods but if we dare to cheat we tend to feel awful about ourselves. Constantly checking out process on the scale can cause major giddiness if the scale is moving the right way and extreme self loathing if it went the wrong way. We are so self critical, there is no room in our consciousness to anything other extreme success or extreme failure. That's what yoyoing is all about.

If you're anything like me you've got torturous negative thoughts about yourself. "I'm so far today" "why can't I stick to this diet?" "Look at how huge my a$$ is" "I'm the fattest person in the room!" I've found that a little work towards countering these negative thoughts goes a long eat in helping me build a better self esteem. And because my self esteem is better I'm making better and more rational food decisions. Think of a child, how do you motivate a child? You tell them that can do it, they're talented, they're worthy! You foster their self esteem and then they feel nurtured and secure enough to believe in themselves.

But what do we do? We punish ourselves, tell outselves we deserve to be ft and then we wonder why we continue to fail.

Annik
04-11-2014, 03:15 PM
I'm curious, what did you infer from my post? Because I wasn't saying that people should live their fat. I dislike the fat acceptance movement because of the reasons radiojane listed - it emphasizes loving fat, hating skinny. Not for me.

I was advocating that people approach themselves with kindness. The pressure to diet and lose weight has caused a lot of self loathing. Dieting instructs us to avoid certain foods but if we dare to cheat we tend to feel awful about ourselves. Constantly checking out process on the scale can cause major giddiness if the scale is moving the right way and extreme self loathing if it went the wrong way. We are so self critical, there is no room in our consciousness to anything other extreme success or extreme failure. That's what yoyoing is all about.

If you're anything like me you've got torturous negative thoughts about yourself. "I'm so far today" "why can't I stick to this diet?" "Look at how huge my a$$ is" "I'm the fattest person in the room!" I've found that a little work towards countering these negative thoughts goes a long eat in helping me build a better self esteem. And because my self esteem is better I'm making better and more rational food decisions. Think of a child, how do you motivate a child? You tell them that can do it, they're talented, they're worthy! You foster their self esteem and then they feel nurtured and secure enough to believe in themselves.

But what do we do? We punish ourselves, tell outselves we deserve to be ft and then we wonder why we continue to fail.

some of what you are talking about is called internalised oppression. We take in the monster who beats up and it takes on our own voice.

and we don't even know it is happening.

and we oppress each other when we point fingers and whisper or say, 'she is so fat,' 'she is such a failure'...

Love -- real genuine love of self and other -- has the capacity to change the world.

If we can begin to genuinely love ourselves, take responsibility for ourselves, be kind and when needed firm and/or forgiving with ourselves, the world really can change.

LittleMissWarhead
04-11-2014, 04:42 PM
I'm curious, what did you infer from my post? Because I wasn't saying that people should live their fat. I dislike the fat acceptance movement because of the reasons radiojane listed - it emphasizes loving fat, hating skinny. Not for me.

I was advocating that people approach themselves with kindness. The pressure to diet and lose weight has caused a lot of self loathing. Dieting instructs us to avoid certain foods but if we dare to cheat we tend to feel awful about ourselves. Constantly checking out process on the scale can cause major giddiness if the scale is moving the right way and extreme self loathing if it went the wrong way. We are so self critical, there is no room in our consciousness to anything other extreme success or extreme failure. That's what yoyoing is all about.

If you're anything like me you've got torturous negative thoughts about yourself. "I'm so far today" "why can't I stick to this diet?" "Look at how huge my a$$ is" "I'm the fattest person in the room!" I've found that a little work towards countering these negative thoughts goes a long eat in helping me build a better self esteem. And because my self esteem is better I'm making better and more rational food decisions. Think of a child, how do you motivate a child? You tell them that can do it, they're talented, they're worthy! You foster their self esteem and then they feel nurtured and secure enough to believe in themselves.

But what do we do? We punish ourselves, tell outselves we deserve to be ft and then we wonder why we continue to fail.

That's why it's best to consider your changes in activity and eating as a lifestyle change not a diet per say. People take the whole diet thing as "Okay, I have to do this for a set number of days or so then I can be skinny and then go back to my old ways". No, it's got to be a complete transformation the way you go about things. Just because you might mess up one day doesn't make you a complete failure because we're all about the indulge sometimes. I think it has to do with personality as well. I was never the type to feel sorry for myself (not inferring you do) I'm just the type that sees yes there is a problem, it needs to be fixed, I wont be perfect at it, but it will get done! I mean for anyone out there reading this, im just 20 years old and I don't know it all but what I do know is it doesn't help feeling sorry for yourselves. Acknowledge you have a problem, disregarding the fact how you might "feel" about yourself. And that's another issue as well the harder you are on yourself, the more guilty you feel and if you're an emotional eater, you're ****ed so...yeah I can see what you mean by being kind to yourself, but never expect perfection and don't wallow in self pity when you fail, get back up and fight like a ***** so you can be proud of what you see in the mirror. This is coming from someone who still is never easy on herself but I am realistic and determined. again, it goes back to personality.[/B]

LittleMissWarhead
04-11-2014, 04:47 PM
I think the issue is that while some overweight and obese people may be in good health, others just THINK they are - and either they don't get an annual physical to find out for sure, or their doctors aren't being honest with them about how their weight is affecting their health. From personal experience, my doctor has never so much as even mentioned the fact that I am obese. Even when I started experiencing asthma again, they didn't talk about physical activity with me, they just prescribed an inhaler. When my BP was a little high? No mention of my weight or nutrition.

It's an embarrassing thing to bring up to a doctor. I can understand why so many of us put our blinders on to the whole thing and just go on like everything is honky dory until we have our personal wake-up call.

Hope I didn't go too off track there...

Edited to say...my post didn't take appearances or loving oneself into account at all. I'm just speaking to health. I am jealous of women who love their bodies at ANY size and think that is an incredible thing to be able to do and something that should be encouraged.

You made amazing points! I think sometimes it just helps being honest with ourselves. When I was in the 7th grade I started noticing my periods were disappearing, and so became the starting of my PCOS... THEN there came a time when my friends mom randomly checked my blood sugar and lord behold my rating was sky high and she was surprised I wasn't admitted into a hospital but for real after I lost a significant amount of weight my sugar is great and periods have returned! But I hate it when people try to tell you nice things just to keep your self esteem intact but I find a swift kick in the rear is a great motivator lol :)

Wannabeskinny
04-11-2014, 07:28 PM
I don't wallow in self pity. And I think "lifestyle change" is just another word for diet. I don't fall of horses or get back on. I can't relate to that mentality anymore in any way other than I used to do that.

Bellamack
04-11-2014, 09:36 PM
Professional "athletes" are way overweight, have you ever looked at the NFL linemen?
Many skinny people smoke, drink & do drugs
We accept these people far better than an overweight person. I struggle terrrible with my weight, I don't overeat. I am post meno & hypo thyroid and living on 800- 1200 calories a day forever is not that much fun. With that said, many people just don't care about their weight, at least I care and I don't take up 2 seats on an airplane ( my biggest pet peeve), I have had to set by people who have taken up half of my seat, NOT FUN, they should have to buy 2 seats.

We need to have Laws that don't allow manufacturers to "add" whatever the he!! they want to our food, including hormones and HFCS, sugar, salt, etc. Whay would I want sugar in my canned tomatoes? there is a multitude of factors that contribute to our overweight society, including lack of activity