Body Image and Issues after Weight Loss - Are fat chicks "stupider" or "smarter"?




wtfudge
12-18-2011, 09:07 PM
Hahaha okay hear me out: I've oscillated from borderline obese to a low/normal BMI and I've noticed these habits that fat people have that skinny people don't and vice versa. And I hypothesize that these characteristics ultimately determine some aspect of intelligence.

Specifically, when I was fat, I felt like not moving much. I never felt motivated to study, perhaps partly because of a mild depression, or I wouldn't study efficiently. If I needed to go get a book, I would be too lazy to retrieve it. If I needed to even just summarize what I learned, I'd be too lazy to go back, reread, highlight, or outline topics/chapters.

Further, there is a conspicuously big person in one of my engineering classes. My theory seemed to not hold, because if you're less apt at engineering (classes like Signals, and Electromagnetic Lines and Waves), you're probably lazy or fat or get tired easily and just can't handle the heat so you left the kitchen (hah.) The Electrical courses are weeded courses, and we are upperclassmen, so we haven't dropped out or switched majors against all odds. To add additional strain on my hypothesis, this guy received almost perfect grades in core electrical classes. Naturally, I asked how he studies.

"I don't," he explained.
"Explain," I pleaded.
"I just look on the board, and I remember it. Sometimes it helps to write it down, but that's it. I never study."

My theory is, this man is an exception. He is good despite and/or because he doesn't try. He doesn't have to because he just *gets* it. Those exceptions aside, I look at other facts:

Fat chicks (like me/the old me) stay home more because we don't love going out typically, we read more so we might be more literate than the average bear for damn certain, but when it comes down to it, our laziness (not by choice!) puts us behind. I believe that we slow down and inadvertently slack and follow behind in matters of mathematical studies and analysis. I've noticed that the people at my former work place who were slackers and falling behind had poor body image and were self-conscious.

I have been pondering where fatness renders intelligence for a few days now :P it's really been confounding me. So I'd love to know your thoughts or input so you could perhaps all shed light on my theory, maybe with some experiences or observations you've made, especially while on your own weight loss journey.

But first, a few disclaimers:
I understand that I've desensitized this topic a lot. I don't think "fat people are stupid and lazy" NO. I think that our body images and lack of energy collectively can negatively impact intelligence and learning.
I understand that there are many different types of smart, like booksmart or streetsmart. My hypothesis primarily deals with how overweight people deal with a potentially elevated learning curve.
My original theory was that fat girls were "smarter" because we think and reflect a lot on ourselves and on others and ****, we're opinionated about everything :P but now that it's finals week, I compare how I'm studying now to how I studied at 190, and I swear, it's like two years ago I MUST have lost my mind with how poor my study habits were.

Uhh on that note... I'm off to continue studying :D thanks girls


Italiannie
12-18-2011, 09:29 PM
I'm fat, and I'm brilliant! :D

I always got great grades, I'm very energetic and I have built a business that is in the top percentage of our local market - very little of it on my thin days.
Having said that, when I'm thinner I do have more self confidence.
So........
Who knows!

I've also been around long enough to understand that intelligence doesn't always mean ambitious.

Are people with bad hair smart or stupid? I bet we've all stayed inside on a bad hair day! LOL

caliyah
12-18-2011, 10:39 PM
I have to disagree with you here. I'd say because of my weight it has made me have to work harder, study harder and try more than my 'skinny' colleagues because I felt like no one would give me a break unless I used my intelligence and hard work to get somewhere in life. I actually gained most of my weight from being stressed and overworked.

The lack of overweight colleagues in some places may be more likely because people are less likely to hire overweight employees regardless of their talent.

But overall I don't at all believe that being fat makes you work less hard. There are tons of intelligent, hardworking professionals that are overweight. But of course I've met many people that have not done themselves justice in their life because of their weight.


mandalinn82
12-18-2011, 11:31 PM
I would say that my weight gave me something to prove - so I worked even harder. I didn't lose weight until AFTER I graduated college cum laude.

I had poor eating habits, but not poor study habits, and I worked my butt off to do well.

BeachKitty
12-19-2011, 12:07 AM
I was top of my class all throughout my entire school life. I think part of why I didn't move much physically is because I spent 6+ hours a night (more in college) on schoolwork.

whiteone
12-19-2011, 12:31 AM
I think you may be on to at least one thing. I did tend to do less in general when I was fatter. Not because I was lazier, but it was more of a mental health issue. I was slightly (not often that noticeable) depressed. I don't think it was just lazy in general... because now I am not, and I wasn't before the weight gain either. But after gaining the weight, and noticing that I was "fat" I definitely became less active in more than one way. Depression and low self esteem obviously affect us very negatively, more than I knew at the time.

I do things that other people have mentioned here at 3fc. I never thought I would like clothes better, like makeup better, like shoes better, generally "put more effort into myself" just because I was thinner. (Especially because I was this weight before, and I wasn't so "vain" then). Now, I do all of those things, because I feel happier, pretty, feel better about myself.

To get to the point, I do other things better too... I think being happier/not depressed has put me back on my natural track. I just do better at everything (because I'm not set back by inner problems).

kaplods
12-19-2011, 01:08 AM
I think that it's very easy to draw completely false conclusions and make broad, inaccurate assumptions based on our own prejudices and limited experience.

I taught myself to read before I was four (according to my parents). I didn't become fat until I was five.

My mother told me (only as an adult) that when they adopted me (at only a month old) they were told that I was going to be very intelligent - and my Mom thought the nuns were crazy (How can you tell a baby's going to be smart, she said).

In college I learned that adopted kids intelligence is closely correlated with the I.Q.'s of their bio-parents and only very loosely correlated with the I.Q.'s of the parents who raised them.

Some of the obesity research is similar, finding that children's weights are much more closely correlated to their bio-parent's weights than their adoptive parents.

We also judge fat people as less active by comparing them to thin people, and it may be an unfair comparison.

A talk-show host (I don't remember which one - it was pretty sensational so it probably wasn't Oprah) had family members on who saw their fat family members as inexcuseably lazy - and put them all in a weighted fat suit to simulate the family member's weight and health status (taping their joints to stiffen them for example, if their family member had arthritis).

Then they sent them out with their fat family members - and they couldn't keep up.

So are fat people really lazier - or are we just carrying an extra load- literally.

Also, there's an incredible overlap between the activity levels, amount of food consumed, healthfulness of foods consumed and a person's body weight.

It means that while overweight people tend to eat more and move less than thin people as a group - as individuals that's not necessarily true. Group all the people who have exactly the same eating and exercise/activity and sleep habits, and you'll find some who are very thin, some who are very fat, and a whole lot of people in between.

That's why when someone says they're going to start doing what thin people do - I always wonder "which thin people?" The thin person like my father whose idea of an evening snack was a sleeve of oreos and a quart of icecream (after a three helping dinner) - who didn't gain weight until he retired, and then lost it relatively easily once he buckled down. Or the thin person like my brother who ate like he was hollow and couldn't gain weight until he was in his twenties?

And how about the morbidly obese marathon runners, mountain climbers, kayakers....



Many of our beliefs about the eating habits and activity levels of both thin and fat people are just wrong, and others are influenced by our culture.

It's not culturally acceptable for very fat folk to be very active in public - it's seen as kind of gross. So while I was fairly active as a young person, I was also very careful not to let too many people SEE ME being active, because I learned to be embarassed about it.

I learned that early from my mother. She wouldn't let me play on the monkey bars because fat equals clumsy and she thought I would get hurt (or she heard the other kids make fun of me), so I learned to do my climbing when my parents weren't looking (though that wasn't only a "fat thing" my brother and I both would climb into the apple tree and jump into the garden, and would jump off our garage's sloping roof - only when adults weren't around).

In junior high I started taking tennis lessons, and I loved them, but my mother refused to let me go after she heard some of the other kids (and worse the parents) making fun of me. I still wanted to stay in, but my mother couldn't bear it. So I played badmitton with my brother in our yard, and we played tennis in the park on Sunday when no one else was there.

I learned to hide physical activity. I think it's one of the reasons I loved the water so much. Even though water is transparent, I felt covered by it. The walk to the water could feel like a deathmarch, but once I was in the wter I felt safe (of course it helped that you can't really hear well while you're swimming - so if they were laughing or making nasty comments I couldn't hear it).

In college, I had to take two semesters of P.E. so I took "independent study" so I wouldn't have to dress and undress infront of the thin girls - and so I wouldn't feel awkward in front of everyone else.

I postponed taking the classes at all until my last two semesters - but not because I wasn't doing anything. I love the water, so I swam a lot - but I also intimately knew the pool schedule - and I avoided going when the pool was crowded. For the most part, only my closest friends saw me swim, and sometimes I could persuade them (yes the fat girl, persuading the thin girls) to come swimming with me.

When I met with the women's fitness coach to set up my independent study, she watched and helped me set up my swimming routine (it wasn't any different than my solo routine). A few weeks into the semester, the coach told me (with an astonished expression) that she had given my swim routine to her thin, younger sister at a neighboring college - and that she hadn't been able to keep up.

She meant it as a compliment, and for the most part, I took it that way - but I was also a little hurt and offended that the woman had automatically assumed that, "of course the thin girl should be able to beat a fat girl at just about anything."


I know I'm sort of raving on a soap box here, but I think the stereotypes and the taboos make us very poor observers. We see what we expect to see - so when we see a fat person we expect lazy so we see lazy. We expect stupid - so we see stupid. And when we see something unexpected, we either forget it, consider the person "the exception" with or without evidence, and sometimes we get angry.

For the most part, when I've been ridiculed and harassed, it was not for doing the expected (eating poorly, being sedentary, avoiding drawing attention to myself in public places) - it was for doing what we assume fat people don't do.

When eating health-consciously in a restaurant I heard people joke about "who is she kidding - I bet she goes home and eats a gallon of ice cream" when the fact was I really always have eaten health-consciously - and have always disliked the majority of fast food. I did eat larger portions than most healthy-sized people, but for the most part it was very healthy food - just way, way too much of it (and too many carbohydrate-rich foods).

When I was swimming, or bicycling, or dancing, or dating someone who a thin girl might want.

We set people up for failure because of all the taboos against a fat person doing what needs to be done to be less fat. You're not supposed to let anyone see your fat jiggle. You're not supposed to admit your real weight. You're not supposed to admit that you even realize you're overweight. You're not supposed to make mistakes (because you'll be accused of not really wanting to lose the weight or of being unready to change). You're not supposed to admit that you need help. You're supposed to be ashamed of needing help. People laugh if they see you eating healthy. Or worse, try to persuade you to overeat, because "just this once won't hurt, you've got to live a little..." It's often a no-win situation.

Some of the taboos and stereotypes are changing, but most of them are still fully ingrained. It takes a lot of inner strength and fortitude (and sheer stubborness) to overcome the social and physiological obstacles.

wtfudge
12-19-2011, 02:38 AM
I'm really not particularly biased one way or another. I'm really just fishing for thoughts on this. Of course I'm very familiar with people thinking fat people are lazy, that that's how they got fat etc. Further, I know it is very false. Stereotypes aside, I really want to find some cool correlations or patterns. I know I mightve desensitized this topic, but I'm really super curious!! lol

It sounds though like some 3FC ladies "became fat" (I mean that loosely) from being smart. So maybe a reverse correlation there. That was my original theory--well, because I explained my weight problem to my friends by explaining that I eat when I study or something

Daimere
12-19-2011, 03:11 AM
I almost never studied. I didn't need to. I mostly learned everything in class through reading or listening to the teacher. I guess if I studied, I would have made top of my class.

I've been fat all my life but I also never had friends. I don't feel like my mother realized that maybe finding kids for me to be friends with in the area was a good thing. There were local boys for my brother to play with (who was skinny cause he ran around with them all the time) but I never remember having friends to play with. That meant all I did was read, play with barbies or play dress up by myself. In high school, I would be to have a dog. Because if I was walking a dog, it wouldn't be, "oh, she's fat, she needs to walk." I have a dog now and I still don't walk him like I should. :p

Even when I was 219, I wouldn't go to the YMCA. Now, at 270, I don't care about exercising in front of other people. I found that it's okay for me to move around in public, take up space and what not.

DesertTabby
12-19-2011, 03:16 AM
I've heard of this hypothesis before from someone weirdly enough, and her claim on how to defend it was 'Well, can you name any well-known genius who was fat?' There is even a youtube video done by some guy who talks about it.

The theory behind that idea is that if a person is truly intelligent then they have the wherewithall/knowledge/whateveryouwantocallit to exercise and eat less. Basically they'd stop it before it ever got out of hand. Healthy mind in a healthy body and all that. My retaliation was that we as a race weren't capable of being as overweight until the onset of the modern age/consumerism culture/capitalism anyways. Back in the day there were only one or two fat kids in class, so statistically speaking there was less cross-over simply because there were less fat people.

The only anecdotal evidence I can provide is my case and a friend's admittedly, so please bear with me while I toot our own horn! I am constantly named 'the smart one' in my group of friends, even though I am usually one of the heaviest. I graduated with a 3.8 from Uni without opening a book, and I got my MA from one of the best universities in the world in a subject I never took before in my life. I would consider myself a lazy genius* in that regard.

In my sister's group, her heaviest friend is definitely one of the smartest as well and one of the smartest people I know in general. All of her siblings are overweight but incredibly intelligent too. Despite that she never did anything with her intelligence that would have brought her attention.

The only problem I saw when it came to weight and intelligence is that people who are overweight tend to have low self-esteem; they are usually dismissed or walked all over. So whenever they do produce a work of 'genius' (however you want to see it) they just stuff it in the back of their closet and choose to ignore it for fear of being criticized.

Another issue that I will admit is that some don't have the willpower to finish the project through til the end either; and /possibly/ this same lack of willpower may be why they gained weight to begin with. If you never see anything through til the end then you probably aren't going to see any diet through either, nor will you stop yourself from resisting supposedly delicious foods. You're still intelligent after all but you just don't finish projects or give into procrastination.

My parents call these people 'lazy geniuses' (not lazy due to weight in this case, but lazy in that they don't do ANYTHING despite - or perhaps due to - their intelligence, whether fat or skinny.) Y'know the kind, the kid who always answers in class but has never opened a book in his life? Yea, I was that kid...And I hate the fact that I don't have the self-esteem or willpower to see anything through; mainly because everything was easy for me growing up. Nothing was a challenge so I became lazy and content rather than frustrated and motivated.

* I am using the term 'genius' very loosely here, I highly doubt my intelligence is truly in the realm of 'genius', but hey it sounds better than 'lazy smart ***'.

kaplods
12-19-2011, 03:17 AM
We're all biased. We cannot help but be. Our brains are designed to connect experiencial variables and make patterns. But experience isn't reality. You can't get a big enough or unbiased enough sample from people's beliefs to draw valid conclusions.


There is research that has explored the connection between intelligence and obesity - and the research findings are not that obese folk are smarter than non-obese folk. In fact, there's a negative correlation between intelligence, education, and income with obesity. That doesn't mean all obese folks are stupid, or that all uneducated people are obese. But if you are poor, uneducated, or not very bright (and living in a country in which calories are cheap) you are at greater risk for being overweight.

So the research doesn't really support your conclusion. It doesn't mean that an intelligent person can't be obese. It doesn't mean that an obese person can't be intelligent. It doesn't even mean that obesity can't allow a person to put more effort into education to compensate - but it doesn't meant that intelligence made them obese, or obesity made them intelligent.

But we can't find out by asking people. It doesn't work that way - because what we think we know, isn't always the truth.


If I think I got fat because I'm smart - it doesn't mean that's true. If I think I got fat because my mother was fat and she "made me" fat - it doesn't make that true either. If I think I got smart because I was fat - that doesn't make that true either (and from the family story it sounds unlikely).

I also can't tell how smart I would have been had I not been fat.


I suspect a genetic component because I am adopted and my weight pattern doesn't follow any of the patterns in my family. My parents biological children follow my parent's pattern. One sister gained weight, but only in her late 20's - just like Mom. The other sister has never had a weight problem, and if she continues to follow Dad's pattern, she might gain a little after she retired, but she'll get it off pretty quickly.

My "gut" tells me that obesity is therefore mostly genetic (because that seems to be the pattern in my family).

Another person's gut (because of their experiences) may be telling them that obesity is mostly learned.

Short of many double-blind adoption studies (to seperate the biological and learning variables), there's no way to tell whose "gut" is correct.

Of course it's possible that being smart contributed to some people's obesity. It's also possible that being overweight contributed to some people's work ethic or wisdom. Some may have become fat from being ignorant. Or maybe there's no connection at all, and we just thing so because it seems like a reasonable conclusion based on our experience (or our wishful thinking).


Perception isn't truth. Most people believe they are more intelligent than average - but that's a mathmatical impossibility. Everyone can't be smarter than average - in fact, by it's very nature most people are exactly average. And because intelligence falls on a normal curve half as many people are above average as are below average. So why aren't there just as many people believing that they're below or exactly average.

So very few people are going to believe "I got fat because I'm just stupider than most people."

If you ask people "are you fatter than average because you're smarter than average or because you're dumber than average?" You're not going to get very many people agreeing with the latter.

Also ask any group of people whether their group is smarter than average or dumber than average - and most are going to say smarter.

Ask doll-collectors whether doll-collectors are smarter than average - and they're going to say yes.

Ask thin folks whether they're smarter than average - and they're going to say yes.

Because it's human nature to believe that you belong to a group that is smarter than average. It's also more flattering to one's ego to believe one is having difficulty because one is "too smart for their own good," than to believe they're just dumb.

And the same is true for obesity. If you ask people if their obesity (or their ethnicity, or their disability, or any other aspect of their identity that is usually seen as a disadvantage) and ask them if their disadvantage made them smarter than average or dumber than average - which do you think most people will choose?

The question, by it's very nature is not going to yeild an accurate answer.

sontaikle
12-19-2011, 07:58 AM
DesertTabby - I'm more interested in your 'lazy genius' comment because I've been looking for a way to describe myself. I went to a private, all-girls academy for high school and barely opened a book through it yet managed to graduate with a 3.8 (imagine if I studied!), Got a scholarship and coasted through undergrad doing the same thing. Barely opened a book to study in graduate school (and I got a hefty scholarship for that too!) and wound up with a 3.85 and I finished my MA and an Advanced Certificate in a year.

I actually don't know how to study because I maybe had to study once or twice throughout the time I was in school. Kind of interesting that I'm now a Special Education teacher, helping those children who need it the most. I'm actually pretty passionate about making sure they get the support they need. Some folks thought I would have a hard time understanding them since school came so easy to me, but I don't.

I can't really say it was overcompensation because I was fat since I didn't really work hard. I sort of wonder what would have happened had I actually applied myself more throughout school. Am I smarter because I was fat? I don't think so; I didn't spend hours in my room studying and doing homework because I didn't want to go out and face the world. I did my homework in the morning, before class and yet somehow did it all right and got high marks.

I knew thin people who were like me and I knew fat people who were like me. I also know thin and fat people who need to work hard to get good grades and I know those that don't want to work hard. It's hard to say who's smarter and who isn't and I think it's quite dangerous to make conclusions from our own observations.

124chicksinger
12-19-2011, 08:27 AM
Is this a potential thesis topic? Lazier, perhaps, speaking for myself only. Dumb? I hope not.

A friend of mine was going to write her thesis on bilingual children being smarter and having more advantages than one language children, and this she based on at the time her nieces and nephews (she had no children of her own). I thought it was a bit far fetched and snooty, but I kept my opinion to myself. She was reminded by her professor, however, that she teaches in an inner city high needs area where many dual language children are not afforded a 2 parent home and live near poverty, etc., and may be less advantaged by those and other factors than advantaged because they grew up with 2 languages. She didn't write THAT paper because her logic didn't stick--her nieces and nephews were better advantaged because their parents had ... money, education, opportunities for advancement, excellent jobs, and success.

Unna
12-19-2011, 09:20 AM
To add additional strain on my hypothesis, this guy received almost perfect grades in core electrical classes. Naturally, I asked how he studies.

"I don't," he explained.
"Explain," I pleaded.
"I just look on the board, and I remember it. Sometimes it helps to write it down, but that's it. I never study."

My theory is, this man is an exception. He is good despite and/or because he doesn't try. He doesn't have to because he just *gets* it. Those exceptions aside

Out of ca. 100 students every semester, I have 2-3 students that are this way. I was never this way - I always thought I could be the best if I worked hard enough, but some are simply better. When I started teaching, I realized that some students "just get it." They can grasp abstract concepts with much more ease.

Anyway, I appreciated the oddity of your post - I say always ask questions, even if they seem silly. I'm still thinking of how to view the question.

124chicksinger: Her thesis is pretty silly. That would be similar to saying Europeans (usually bilingual) are overall smarter than all Americans (usually monolingual). Or does that mean that, for example, the Swiss (multilingual, usually speak with fluency at least 3 languages) are smarter than the Germans (who usually are fluent only in English, maybe French)?

k8yk
12-19-2011, 11:30 AM
I think any time you try to make a broad statement about a group of people dependent upon something superficial, you are bound to be wrong (and possibly offend somebody).

Everyone is different. I've been obese most of my life, yet I was an overachiever in school and I read more than anyone else I know. Since losing weight, I'm the same person- just smaller. But that's an anecdote, not science. Always be very careful of thinking that one person's personal experience translates directly to anything that has meaning for a broad group. That's the basis of all the -isms. (racism, sexism, sizeism, etc)

runningfromfat
12-19-2011, 12:34 PM
I will say this. Sure, there's a subset of overweight/obese individuals who are lazier/less ambitious at that higher weight, possibly due to depression. FWIW, I consider myself one in this category. At my highest weight I wasn't as productive at work. Then again, I was also a new mom to a very demanding baby/toddler AND we weren't nearly as financially stable as we are now (not saying we're rich now or anything but we were pretty bad off then) to the point that we couldn't afford enough childcare. So... way too many factors going on there. :dunno:

On the other hand, DH is overweight because he likes to eat but is probably one of the most ambitious/driven people I've ever met, no matter WHAT we weighs. Actually, the year that he was the most sucessful in work he weighed the most (and really neglected his health because of the amount he was working). This past year he's been working on his health and that has affected the amount he could work (not hugely but it's still made a difference).

It's akin to the idea that poor people are lazy. Sure, you can find some who are. But you can also find poor who became poor due to health issues, disability, lack of educational opportunities, unforeseen incidents etc. Obesity is an incredible complex issue so I'm not sure if you'd be able to find a smoking gun for the causation. I do think there is a certain subset of obese individuals that do emotional eating and that could be tied to depression. What percentage of the individuals do with that I have no clue, but I imagine treating depression/helping with organization skills, etc could certainly help those individuals and might be worthless for others.

Oh, and for the record? I do know some very well-respected individuals in my field who are overweight. 100% of them are male, though... All the females who are famous? Yeah, they're at a healthy weight. Actually, there are very, very few females who are even remotely overweight in my field. That being said there are a number of smokers/drinkers so it's not like everyone is 100% health conscious either.

stellarwbz
12-19-2011, 01:30 PM
When I'm heavier I feel the need to make up for it by making good grades. When I was thinner I was too bothered with my looks to even study. However, I don't think it really matters if you are fat or skinny. I think skinny people can be smart and fat people can be smart too.

EagleRiverDee
12-19-2011, 02:16 PM
I think that this is something heavier women face all the time- people look at us and think we're lazy and discriminate accordingly. I'm not lazy. I'm absolutely punctual, don't miss work for sick days, take copious notes, work out regularly, and while I'm not a genius I'm quite intelligent and read daily. I take an interest in many things, and make a point to learn new things daily.

I don't believe that weight and intelligence are related. I do believe, however, that there are people out there that have made that erroneous connection and perpetuate it, creating a continuing culture of discrimination against overweight women in particular (I don't see this type of commentary pointed towards overweight men, interestingly). I am surprised to see that someone among us here would do that, however.

k8yk
12-19-2011, 03:35 PM
I don't believe that weight and intelligence are related. I do believe, however, that there are people out there that have made that erroneous connection and perpetuate it, creating a continuing culture of discrimination against overweight women in particular (I don't see this type of commentary pointed towards overweight men, interestingly).

Exactly. Why is it only us "chicks" who have to be judged on our appearances? For women, the judgement goes both ways- if you're heavy people assume you're lazy and stupid. If you're a bombshell, people assume you're stupid and not worth much beyond your looks. So am I to understand that there's some measure of thinness, (but not too thin) and attractiveness, (but not too attractive), that I have to obtain to be thought of as "smart"? I wear glasses, so I've got that part covered :dizzy:

Then there's the idea that "fat chicks" are this group of people who are all pretty much alike because we happen to be female and overweight. (I'm not overweight anymore, but I still say "we" because I am still that same person even though I've lost weight. Hmmm.... The whole concept of the question is off-putting to say the least.

Gabe
12-19-2011, 05:05 PM
I've been on the receiving end of this prejudice, and I absolutely hated it. There was, however, a grain of truth in my case. Bear with me as I explain.

I am intelligent. SATs? ACTs? College? AP courses? Cake. I didn't even have to really try most of the time. I write well; I've been acknowledged for it. At work, I picked up on new concepts easily, had damn near perfect recall, and could master any computer system you threw at me.

Thing is, I also have some psychological issues. I've gone through periods of near-pathological shyness. I'm cyclothymic. I get very nervous taking credit for things or asking for things. And, on my worst days, any task that has more than three steps reduces me to a quivering mass of fright. The front I put up here? It's a front, and one that at times has suffered major breeches and even abject rupture. My life and my body together comprise the seismic zone of my issues.

These psychological issues, compounded by a now-failed marriage that could be most generously described as "interesting", were a large contributing factor to my weight gain. They were also a large contributing factor towards my current lack of life awesomeness. So, while being fat didn't make me not smart--I've always been smart--the massiveness of my weight was a symptom of some deeper psychological problems that also affected how successful I was.

So, yes, it was maddening that people would judge my intelligence by my size, since my intellect was unaffected. But if they used it to simply infer that, hey, something might not be right upstairs, then they would've been woefully accurate.

kaplods
12-19-2011, 07:16 PM
Exactly. Why is it only us "chicks" who have to be judged on our appearances?

It isn't. Men are judged on their appearance too, and just as harshly. Men who are "flawed" - too short, too thin, too fat, bald, wearing thick glasses.....

they all earn less money get fewer promotions, are the first to be fired, and attract fewer women than good-looking guys.


There was a study done of overweight dating, that found that very overweight men fare much worse on the dating scene than similarly overweight women. One of the theories is that because it's still traditional for the men to do the asking, that these guys are too shy to ask girls out - but the study found that the guys are also more likely to be rejected.

Statistically, there are more men attracted to fat women, than women attracted to fat men.


We make a lot of false assumptions about who is and who is not descriminated against.

k8yk
12-19-2011, 07:29 PM
But the question asked specifically about "chicks"- that was what I was referring to.

I disagree that it's just as bad for men anyway though, maybe it's equalizing as time goes by- but when is the last time you saw an unattractive female news anchor, for example? Yet I can name several older, balder, fatter male anchors without putting much thought into it.

EagleRiverDee
12-19-2011, 07:30 PM
It isn't. Men are judged on their appearance too, and just as harshly. Men who are "flawed" - too short, too thin, too fat, bald, wearing thick glasses.....

I have to disagree, and point simply to Hollywood to show the difference. When an actress loses her looks or gains weight, she often has trouble finding work. When an actor gains weight (think Alec Baldwin, for example) he's still on top. Jason Alexander is short AND bald, still gets good gigs.

There is a double standard, and women are held to much higher standards than men, IMO.

wtfudge
12-19-2011, 08:27 PM
I don't believe that weight and intelligence are related. I do believe, however, that there are people out there that have made that erroneous connection and perpetuate it, creating a continuing culture of discrimination against overweight women in particular (I don't see this type of commentary pointed towards overweight men, interestingly). I am surprised to see that someone among us here would do that, however.
I didn't! I really did mean it as a 100% curious question, especially because as I said, there are many different types of 'intelligence'. I mentioned that I see both sides of the story, but I wanted to hear the opinions of 3FC ladies to get a full picture. If you're offended or anyone else is, I'm sorry, I didn't mean it. It's posed in a very insensitive manner, I realize. But no one asked and it's been on my mind.

wtfudge
12-19-2011, 08:32 PM
I don't believe that weight and intelligence are related. I do believe, however, that there are people out there that have made that erroneous connection and perpetuate it, creating a continuing culture of discrimination against overweight women in particular (I don't see this type of commentary pointed towards overweight men, interestingly). I am surprised to see that someone among us here would do that, however.

I'm also fully aware of the correlation between poverty and obesity, the feast and famine cycle of food stamps, etc. I really wasn't just asking straight up about the correlation of a person's IQ and what they see on the scale. No no no no

EagleRiverDee
12-19-2011, 08:37 PM
I didn't! I really did mean it as a 100% curious question, especially because as I said, there are many different types of 'intelligence'. I mentioned that I see both sides of the story, but I wanted to hear the opinions of 3FC ladies to get a full picture. If you're offended or anyone else is, I'm sorry, I didn't mean it. It's posed in a very insensitive manner, I realize. But no one asked and it's been on my mind.

No apology necessary. I get frustrated with the bias, but I'm not upset that you brought it up.

Unna
12-19-2011, 11:53 PM
wtfudge: It was an interesting question, don't feel bad about asking and don't feel bad about not predicting a correlation that someone else saw - that doesn't make you un-politically correct or un-sightful. I am quite glad you are among us!!

Many scientists pursue ideas that are completely unaccepted by society (i.e. Galileo!). I'm not saying the idea is correct or incorrect, but there is nothing wrong with contemplating it.

We mussn't leap to concluding "biases" and "discrimination", we can start with the simple thoughts and work our way up to more complex, correct views.

I know you had the intuition when writing the post that your correlation between being overweight and less-smart was incorrect, you even stated that. But, you also simply wanted to explore the topic, inspired from personal experience. As you found in many personal experiences cited, being overweight often contributes to feeling depressed, thus having a lack of interest in pursuing activities.

Actually, for me at least, I have never heard of the stereotype that overweight women are less-intelligent/studious (no one ever perpetuated it to me, that is). In fact, in my experience, quite the opposite.

I've mainly only associated overweight women as being more intelligent - particularly more intelligent than the prettier, thinner women. They seem to not be as outwardly wrapped up in boys and partying, for example, thus having more time and inclination to study. So, if anything, the stereotype would be that the "pretty, thin" people are less-smart, definitely less studious, than those who are overweight.

liliesinmycereal
12-20-2011, 03:00 PM
I became fat after my parents separated I think from poor nutrition not because I was lazy or anything. I never took the time to understand my health because it was never a priority compared to the situations in my life. I hadn't even considered the possibilities of healthy eating until I went on my first weight loss plan with my parents not fully understanding. I've always attained A and Bs throughout high school and college. In college I started learning about health slowly. Now that I'm in a career I made the time to have my health a priority. But I also think rating someone's intelligence level based off of weight is fallacious. I think it would be better to measure intellegence versus the capacity to understand and translate data. There are multiple intelligences so measuring a specific type of intelligence would also have to be noted. The scale is relative on the whole matter.

Samantha18
12-28-2011, 10:58 PM
Honestly, I don't think weight has an affect on intelligence nor where someone goes in life as much as is assumed. I use to have overweight friends, and some were not very bright while some were incredibly intelligent. People saying being overweight can hold you back at your job, but I think that is false to. For every person who won't hire you for being fat, there is someone who will hire because they don't see you as a threat.

In my case, I graduated at the top of my class and rarely studied. It was easy for me to remember and learn what the teacher taught us, so it wasn't necessary for me to study, though I did study when I needed to. I have always been into reading and writing, etc... I've been fat since I was 5. My laziness has always varied. I was a cheerleader (while being fat), and our gym class required us to run 20 minutes without wallking. If you stopped running, you would get a C for the day. My gym teachers complimented me for never walking, because many of my thin classmates did stop and walk, so they were very surprised. Then after gym I'd go to cheerleading for 2 hours which was more running and physical activity. As a kid, I rarely spent any time indoors. I was always running around, riding my bike, etc... but was still fat. However, I've been incredibly lazy the past 5 years and only weigh 50lbs more than I did when I wasn't lazy.

I can see where it's easier to assume that fat people are fat from being lazy, but I just don't think that holds true, especially seeing as exercise and activity is only 30% of weight loss. I know many thin people who never exercise. It's just too broad of a thing to generalize because there are too many factors to obesity in the first place. I have also never heard the stereotype of fat people being stupid, nor smart. This is the first time I've heard of intelligence being correlated to obesity. Though, I do sometimes wonder what my intelligence would be like if I had been thin, since I've always been fat. I might have been the type who would rather be out socializing and dating rather than reading and writing. But I still think it varies too much to generalize.

Vex
01-16-2012, 11:02 AM
Actually, I'd love to see IQ and weight plotted on a graph and see what I can see. It would be impossible to get enough unbiased data to generate anything reliable though.

My own opinion is that perhaps overweight people may be a bit more emotionally intelligent than the general population, probably due to years of self analysis. Maybe not, who knows?

I've been both thin and fat and have a BS and an MA for which I never really studied for. I'm lazy all the way through :)

I think however you're going to be is developed at a early time in life and can change over time.

What does not change, and probably won't in the near future, is the perception of society. You can choose to concern yourself with it or not.

-

Thighs Be Gone
01-16-2012, 11:21 AM
I honestly can't say. I have known of very overweight brilliant people and I have known some really brilliant thin people too. I think we tend to think thin=smart though. It's defiitely the way it is portrayed in the media for certain. How many movies have I seen where the brilliant, thin and fit woman had some high profile, glam job. Likewise, how many times have I seen overweight characters (even in cartoons) being portrayed as slovenly, low-performing, stupid or ignorant.

Luckily, there is real life though. Overweight means you are overweight and nothing more or less. Being thin and fit also means you are thin and fit--nothing more and nothing less.

jeminijad
01-16-2012, 12:00 PM
http://www.udel.edu/educ/gottfredson/reprints/2004currentdirections.pdf

There most certainly is a correlation between intelligence and health.

There is a correlation between health and BMI.

Long compelling stories about indiviual fat people who can swim fast or are very bright don't change the basic trends that are identied population wide.

Is there a correlation between intelligence and BMI? I don't know, and quite frankly, I don't see anyone here with the tools to suss that out. There is a reason that the people constructing, conducting and analyzing studies spend years on statistics, how to compensate for the various problems/biases/blind spots that can occur in studies, to say nothing of their learning in their actual discpline.

PinkJealousy
03-03-2012, 08:32 AM
There must be some correlation but not based on your personal experience. When I stayed at the college, I would go out all the time and partied, hardly studied because i did not need to.

Even now, I go out for work and occasional drinks, but i dont keep my nose in my books and still get As and Bs.

There will be fat people and skinny people that with be the life of the party equally as there will be fat people and skinny people that are homebodies.

Sylvied
03-05-2012, 09:54 AM
It could be something worth studying but I think you'd have to work very hard to tease out all the variables.

The variable I'd add in there is the lifestyle of your average post secondary student. Even if you're not a partier (I wasn't) the student life can become pretty unhealthy rather quickly.

If you're spending most of your time doing readings, labs and assignments, you're probably spending a lot of your time being physically sedentary. Yes, sometimes I got reading done at the gym but that only worked if I didn't have to take notes for the reading.

You're also less likely to have time to properly grocery shop and cook healthy meals, and depending on your living situation, you may not even have resources like a fridge and stove. I joke that I got through grad school on chocolate and adrenaline - and I am not really exaggerating by that much.

One of the elements of post secondary education is that you're supposed to focus on matters of the mind - not the body.

I'm not sure if controlling for that would work for or against the potential thesis but I do know that I was obese when I graduated and I've seen a few others on this forum whose starting photo is a graduation photo.

I suppose another factor to take into account is whether one's ability to complete higher education is necessarily a measure of one's intelligence.

Nibbles
03-05-2012, 02:09 PM
Nah, I don't buy it. I tied for an award that's the equivalent of being valedictorian (4.0 GPA w/ most credit hours earned) of a major state university when I was 100 pounds overweight, having been obese for the entirety of my teenage/adult life. The person I tied with? My sister -- who's never been more than a couple of pounds overweight in her life. Brains don't have much to do with what's on the outside, and a lack of discipline in one area of your life doesn't necessarily correspond to the other areas.

Anssett
03-07-2012, 09:06 PM
You're in college so you have access to scientific literature. Why don't you do some reading on the current understanding of what causes people to become obese (specific risk factors, genetics vs. environment, intelligence, etc). I don't know what you'll find but I do know all you'll find on a forum board will be people's stories, not science.

I was magna cum laude at a top 25 school when I was at my highest weight.

4star
03-08-2012, 07:12 PM
There is no difference. Nothing special or magical about being thin. Certainly nothing that would make a person smarter or more together than their heavier counterpart. You found new motivations and that's awesome but people of all shapes and sizes do that in many ways, every day. You probably have more energy now and are realizing the benefits of more energy. Perhaps you are feeling more positive about your life in general b/c your weight affected your self-esteem and body image so negatively?

I don't want to be negative towards you in any way. I hope post doesn't sound this way but it has to be said: People are people, there's no special thing that thinner people have or are capable of than thicker people. The only difference is some body fat. We all have our own sparkle and influence. We grow, and develop as human beings; with that comes change and hopefully for the best. When people equate making positive change in their lives solely to their weight loss, they are in danger of quite a fall should they ever have a circumstance that contributes to weight gain like: pregnancy, injury, or illness.

I recognize the line of thinking. People expect their lives to become some marvelous thing once they get their weight in an average range. The diet industry makes tons of money every year indulging this fantasy. It's kinda a head trip if you think about it but it's an effective stereotype. I think it takes away from the worth of people and what they've achieved by their own merit with their own skill and persistence, that's why it bothers me.

I honestly think you achieved so much b/c you set your mind to it and things came together nicely for you. And please don't get me wrong, I think that's wonderful. I love to hear stories like that!

ValRock
03-08-2012, 07:21 PM
You're making some pretty broad generalizations here.

I have been overweight/obese my whole life. I've also had a considerably higher than normal IQ my entire life.

If I ever acted lazy or 'stupid' at school it was because my self image was effecting my drive. Being fat didn't make me either of those things. It certainly didn't effect my intelligence.

I have always done well in school because I have always felt like I had something to prove. Before it was that the fat chick could do it... now it's that the 29 year old chick with two kids can do it ;).

My eating habits were deficient, not my intelligence quotient ;).

luciddepths
03-14-2012, 09:35 PM
Awesomely interesting topic!

TiffNeedsChange
03-14-2012, 11:17 PM
I am a fat non-lazy overachiever!! I believe that personality and maturity play the biggest role in intelligence and drive. I doubt that being fat determined it but maybe some lazier people aren't as smart because they not only put less effort into studying but into everyday life. The cause of being overweight varies from person to person as well. No scientific conclusion can be based on 2 subjects because you don't have a baseline for average to rule out the fact that they may be on the far ends of the spectrum.

thewickedcityx
03-29-2012, 01:00 AM
I personally have not noticed a correlation between intelligence, laziness and weight. Your generalization definitely does not apply to me as I have always done very well in school. I graduated high school with enough college credits to complete almost an entire year of college, got my associates degree in two semester, and am currently working on my bachelors degree. I have worked pretty much since I was 16 and for the last two years or so have worked full time while attending college full time. I also moved out on my own at the age of 19 and have been taking care of my own apartment and all other responsibilities on top of work and school. The job I've had for the last year and a half is pretty physically demanding. I stand, walk around, and lift boxes up to 60-70 pounds for a good portion of my day.. probably about 6 or 7 hours total. I don't really consider myself a lazy person and certainly not unintelligent. My GPA is a 3.5 right now.. yeah it could be better but considering everything I have on my plate right now I'm satisfied! However, judging by the way other people look at me like I'm some sort of anomaly amongst fat people, maybe your generalization does hold true? People definitely act like I'm an exception to the fat = lazy/stupid rule but I just chalk this up to more of a stereotype than actual truth.